Liverpool Banter Archive December 18 2015

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18 Dec 2015 17:21:47
Ed I have an idea that i'd like to share if that's ok.

I know you don't want to add too many pages but I thought about a topic of the day page or topic of the week. For things that are not always LFC related but lfc fans may want to discuss with each other as often we are asked to go to a certain page to discuss topics. Just so that we can discuss MU, Chelsea, Real, Barcelona things with each other.

Thanks.

Believable0 Unbelievable1

{Ed001's Note - we have sites for those topics so why would we want to put a page here?}

18 Dec 2015 19:09:59
To avoid abuse of the likes of other fans having ago because were discussing something to do with there club?

{Ed033's Note - i guess if people did post a lot about other teams on here then the posts might be placed on the teams page and it would become the Other Teams page

18 Dec 2015 16:47:47
So Milner is out of the Watford game with a minor injury. I wish him only health and quick recovery but can't say I am dissapointed he doesn't start. Hopefully Henderson, Can and Lucas can prove they are the best three for the more defensive part of midfield. I would go with Couts, Origi and Benteke in front of them. And although Lovern played quite well recently I am very happy to see Sakho back, especially in terms of getting the ball forward. If only Sturridge would be fit and start with Benteke upront this would be my ideal 11.

We could really do with a win this weekend.

Believable9 Unbelievable2

18 Dec 2015 18:05:28
Well, I would have tried to change out Skrtel in that matter and Benteke with Firmino.

Mignolet
Clyne - sakho - Lovren - Moreno
Lucas
Can - henderson

Couthino - Firmino
Origi.

{Ed023's Note - Lovren is injured}

18 Dec 2015 16:55:17
Heard Rossitter is out with a hamstring?

18 Dec 2015 19:01:12
Is Sakho fit then Ed?

{Ed023's Note - He trained with the rest of the squad today so I assume he is in contention}

18 Dec 2015 23:41:11
No way I'd start Benteke again. If only so we can avoid hearing from fans and former LFC players bleating on "playing to Benteke's strengths", and "getting quality service", meanwhile we throw about 30 attacking crosses at him vs. WBA, and nothing. All we had to show for it was a weak, slow, neutered attack, as we always have when Benteke starts.

I would reunite our highly fluid and successful attacking trio from Chelsea and City games. That is, Firmino as a false 9, with Coutinho and Lallana behind him, in a tight, narrow, high pressing trio.

Those three cut City to pieces, but for some reason have not started another game together (part of this is due injuries, fitness, etc) .

AT this stage, I'd probably even prefer Origi as an impact sub over Benteke.

18 Dec 2015 16:19:33
so ed002 i appreciate your opinion!

what is it that marko grujic will offer differently to our other youngsters don't or is he going to be another teixera?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I have no idea how to measure things like that - and I have no idea what you mean by "another teixera".}

18 Dec 2015 16:57:21
He is very similar to Matic in playing style also has scored few goals in him. A central midfielder for now and need to find out his strength.

18 Dec 2015 15:44:48
Just to change the subject i would love hear peoples opinions on klopp in general thus far. Also pick the Eds brains on something i'm sure not only myself have noticed. consistency! Brendan wasnt a clever guy, but under him sone days we looked like world beaters and then we would get chinned by some lower teams. For me Klopp is the same. after the city performance we raise expectations. But gave struggled to put a string of performances together. against westbrom we were woeful. Is it the players. luck. confidence. ?

Believable1 Unbelievable10

{Ed002's Note - It was always going to be a roller coaster ride.}

18 Dec 2015 16:18:00
Klopp is trying to get the best out of what he as, he can only be judged after he as his playing staff in and the players to play his way.

18 Dec 2015 16:36:09
You're comparing klopp to Rodgers? Blasphemy.

18 Dec 2015 17:53:14
I would like to put out 2 different scenarios if I may
1. Sinclair signs with Aidy Ward and it looks like he is on his toes and Rodgers is the manager. Every post on here calls Rodgers all the names they can think of, saying another young talent is allowed to leave without being given a chance. All Rodgers fault
2 Sinclair signs with Aidy Ward and it looks like he is on his toes, and Klopp is the manager. Not one post. blaming Klopp, but saying if he wants to go then good riddance because he must have an attitude problem.
Out of curiosity what is the difference between the 2 scenarios.

{Ed023's Note - One has a history of blocking progress for youngsters while the other has a history of turning youth or average players with no direction into world class players}

18 Dec 2015 16:49:13
I'm loving Jurgen. I will judge him when he has assembled his own squad. But to get what he has and to get us believing in the current squad . I'm full of confidence I'm also confident ( benteke apart, so far) that if we sell any player now the club would make a profit. I wouldn't swap him for any other manager and that's coming from Rafa's biggest supporter.

18 Dec 2015 18:27:17
To Red 64, the Sinclair talk is premature, Aidy Ward may be a bell end but he said he has no problem with LFC, only a problem with Rodgers.

18 Dec 2015 18:39:31
Red since 64 - Why do feel it necessary to make up non-existent scenarios to defend Rodgers?

18 Dec 2015 18:59:11
It's pretty difficult to blame Klopp for blocking Sinclair's route to the first team since he's not the one who bought two young strikers in Ings and Origi.

That said, both are here and are more capable than Sinclair, so if the kid wants to move on to further his career, it's understandable, if a bit unfortunate.

18 Dec 2015 19:23:43
Red wire, Aidy Ward might not have a problem with Liverpool, but I am pretty sure Liverpool has a problem with him.

18 Dec 2015 23:48:48
Klopp is also acclimatizing to the more demanding EPL playing schedule and accommodate his high tempo, high pressing "heavy metal" to those demands, while also accommodating a lot of players not really built for his footballing style (e.g., Benteke) .

I think the "inconsistencies" you're noting are a product of these variables.

It's also a product of injuries, etc.

For example, you cite the City game as an example of a "promising" performance for Klopp. That game featured Firmino as a false 9, with Coutinho and Lallana just in behind in a narrow and fluid attacking trio.

Well, it's hard to compare any games since to City, as, surprisingly, those three have not started again in this attacking formation since City.

Again, part of this is injury (Coutinho out), but also trying to find a way to accommodate Benteke as our CF against lesser competition. But even against lesser comp this has been somewhat of a failure, as Benteke requires an attack centered around him, as his lack of pace, link up, creativity, passing, awareness, limits his use in other ways.

19 Dec 2015 01:21:23
Don't know what Red 64 is getting at but I think the Ed is spot on with his response.

19 Dec 2015 08:36:59
We were woeful against the Geordies but not the Baggies.
Against West Brom Benteke had a poor game isolated up front, our finishing was wasteful and we failed to defend set pieces but other than that the performance was OK.

I wonder if Klopp's management team know more about the likes of City and Chelsea because they have played them or their managers several times with Dortmund. This will be the first time they have played Pullis etc. Obviously they have faced McLaren before but at a totally different club.
I also believe that Klopp's team have not worked out the best way to play at home, hence our dreadful results at home. The best way is to take the initiative, follow the tactics we had at St Mary's and blow teams away. If he wants a noisy Anfield, play 2 up front, not 2 DM's, and go for it!

19 Dec 2015 09:10:58
I'm impressed

1) he's changed the mood of the club, fans and players
2) he's starting to develop a style for the team that I think suits (high press and swift transitions into attack)
3) he's added real danger going forward (how many times had we scored more than once a game before he arrived vs after? )
4) he's improved a number of important players eg. Llalana, Lucas, Lovren, Moreno individual performances and confidence
5) we look more structured and balanced in defence

He still has more work to do though, most notably
1) figuring out how to integrate Benteke who's not best suited to his high press system
2) How to improve on set pieces (both in Attack and defence)
3) how the cut out individual defensive errors (notably at goalkeeper)
4) how to unlock defensive teams at home (Westbrom was a good start IMO, but I would still like to see a twin striker setup in Benteke + another)
5) prove he can handle transfer season (which I'm sure he can! )

I would take him over all our competition.

19 Dec 2015 12:44:29
Spot on, Zimbo.

18 Dec 2015 14:59:27
Is this now the Chelsea / Jose page. Have I missed something!?

Believable4 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - Yes, the obsession continues.}

18 Dec 2015 15:32:59
Wake me when it's over pls. Yawn.

{Ed001's Note - we are enjoying the peace and quiet....}

18 Dec 2015 16:45:30
On the Chelsea page? 😏.

{Ed001's Note - if only.}

18 Dec 2015 17:29:31
What site is regularly most busy? I imagine this one and united in the summer if it is based on transfer rumours and fans.

{Ed001's Note - Liverpool is the most busy by far. At times it gets as much traffic as all the others put together. During transfer windows the original site is busy, the rest of the time quiet. Other than that Man Utd, Forest, Rangers are the busiest.}

18 Dec 2015 19:07:57
Most teams mentioned then higher things are expected, forest used to be great under clough, United, obviously a lot of fans but should be playing better, Liverpool fallen from greatness and qpr with the money invested should be doing better.

18 Dec 2015 13:37:00
Ed02,

I'm not sure how reliable they are but Empire of the Kop are reporting that Sinclair has just made Aidy Ward his agent, is there any truth in this? If so, do you see that as a sign that he will definitely leave the club this summer?

Thanks.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I expect he will indeed leave.}

18 Dec 2015 15:02:44
There's already rumours of a potential attitude there, and if that's true and he's gone with ward then I'd say he's as good as gone.

(Note: rumour, not fact)

19 Dec 2015 14:20:17
With Sturridge, Benteke, Firmino, Ings, Origi, I just don't see how he'll get playing time. We also have Ojo and Brooks Lennon amongst others at youth level. Might be a mistake but it certainly won't be critical one.

18 Dec 2015 12:38:29
Hey eds,
Does sinclair's appointment of Aidy Ward as his agent end any chances of a contract renewal?
I can't really see him wanting a renewal after this decision else he's quite stupid.
Thanks and keep up the good work! Cheers.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - It certainly won't help and the player seems keen to look elsewhere for first team football.}

18 Dec 2015 15:54:27
He'll get a game for Bolton or Bristol City.

18 Dec 2015 10:26:08
I know it's probably not appropriate for this page but I would love to hear ed002s opinion on the Mourinho situation. Personally I think Chelsea have made a mistake and the board have completely reneged on their statements about building for the long term. Player power is so strong at chelsea that they've just willingly given up one of the top 3 managers in the world at it seems like the beginning of the traditional Chelsea manager merry-go-round; not the desire for consistency the club have been espousing for the past 3 years.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I don't have any particular opinion on such matters - managers are like players - transient, they come and go. The club has not had a good start to the season and the manager and certain members of the board agreed trying something new would be most appropriate. There will be a temporary appointment whilst the club looks to agree terms with a new manager.}

18 Dec 2015 13:55:58
I would like to wish our former (and unfortunately quite short lived) assistant manager Sean O'Driscoll all the best now that he has taken over at Walsall.

Also a shout out to Yan Dhanda on signing a professional contract.

Believable16 Unbelievable0

18 Dec 2015 13:42:00
I was sad to read that Jeroime Sinclair is still in contract dispute with the club and has now signed with Aidy Ward. Looking likely he will be off now. No idea what's gone on but such a shame when this stuff goes on.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

18 Dec 2015 14:22:57
Aidy Ward? We should ajust avoid all the drama and let him leave.

18 Dec 2015 13:38:19
Hi Reds,

Yesterday I posted to see what people's general opinion was on what will happen with Liverpool in the summer with Regards to keepers.
it seems the popular opinion is that Mignolet needs to be replaced, whether by Ward or by a purchased replacement.

Today's topic - Fullbacks

For me I don't see much movement in this department, we have Moreno and Clynn as first choice, with Randall and Smith as back ups.
Great to see them both get a chance btw, it use to frustrate the hell out of me when Rogers would play Can, Ibe or even Sterling at Wing back instead of promoting the youth! Part of the reason I believe Smith wanted out.
We also have Mclaughlin to come back from loan at Aberdeen, and Wisdom at Norwich (I think Klopp will want to see them both) .
Not to mention Flannaghan to return from injury.

If anything we are over crowded in this area, none of them are world beaters but they all have good potential. I think Klopp will opt to stick with what he has this summer and won't make any new signings here.

I expect to see Enrique leave and one maybe two out on Loan dependant on circumstance.

I might be wrong though. Any thoughts RedMen?

Believable1 Unbelievable1

18 Dec 2015 15:47:37
I have a feeling if moreno has a good run of form RM may make a bid for him in the summer.
He won't get many starts for them, but I think its clearly where he wants to go in the end.
Not sure if our other LB's are 100% ready to be starters in a side with CL hopes, so I suspect we may be having a look at possible summer LB options just in case.

18 Dec 2015 16:33:33
Moreno's departure would open up the need for another signing. But I think he has a long way to go to reach the standard Real Madrid are currently at. In my opinion I can't see that being an issue this summer.

18 Dec 2015 16:39:38
In my opinion Moreno is not good enough defensively so we need another LB. He is decent enough however, so it is certainly not a top top priority, and I do agree with you that Klopp will stick with Moreno and Clyne. So unless something special happens the fullbacks will remain the same.

18 Dec 2015 16:59:25
Marcelo is worse than Moreno defensively. So there is a chance he might head to Spain.

19 Dec 2015 11:56:41
Right back

WE will have the following players in and around the 1st team squad in June 2016:

Clyne
Flanagan
Randall
McLaughin
Wisdom
Stewart

Additionally in an emergency Can and Gomez can play there.

I would think at least 3 of the list of 6 will be gone (possibily Wisdom, McLaughin and Stewart - if Flanagan can prove his fitness) .

Left Back

Moreno - will Real Madrid make a bid?

Enrique - If Smith is getting game time now then he has to be on his way out.

Smith.

We probably need one more player (not sure if we have an up and coming player? )

However again Clyne and Gomez could play there in an emergency (didn't Can play left back as well for a short period in Germany? ) .

19 Dec 2015 14:27:20
I think we have two solid options in Clyne and Moreno, although both could improve their crossing. Backup is deep but I'm not sure of the quality. Flanagan will hopefully be back with a vengeance, and I have hopes for Smith but I'm not entirely convinced we won't struggle is someone gets injured and they can't step up. I think we could do with a first team ready backup in he summer if Flanno or smith don't kick on. Wisdom and Gomez I see more as CBs in Klopps style of play.

18 Dec 2015 12:57:43
I guess we'll be waving goodbye to Jerome Sinclair now Aidy Ward is his agent.

Believable9 Unbelievable0

18 Dec 2015 12:37:11
Jerome Sinclair's new agent is Aidy Ward. I know he is young but surely he is a little more aware than that? He has done what he thinks will get him to the top but it won't be with Liverpool.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

18 Dec 2015 12:57:43
I guess we'll be waving goodbye to Jerome Sinclair now Aidy Ward is his agent.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

18 Dec 2015 11:51:24
I made a point last weekend of watching Joel Matip in action for Schalke as we are heavily linked. I wasn't going to post until I realised he was against Augsburg; our opponents in the Europa league.

On Matip:
The guy is a man mountain. Must be about 6ft5. He is surprisingly quick, stands people up well although i can't remember him making a tackle and as expected is great in the air. He seemed to be quite good on the ball but Augsburg pressed him into giving away possession on a few occasions.

On Augsburg:
They are a very hard working side. None of their players really stood out for me but they are a pretty well oiled machine. They press as a unit, defend in solid banks and pass the ball well. It's not going to be a walk in the park, put it that way.

Believable5 Unbelievable4

18 Dec 2015 11:57:28
Augsburg are a very decent outfit. I read somewhere they have the smallest budget in the league but still finished 5th. And didn't they beat a certain Mr. Klopps Dortmund.?

18 Dec 2015 12:20:15
Interesting that a few of the players we've been linked with have been tall guys. I think Klopp has joked about the size of the team too.

18 Dec 2015 12:33:33
Thanks. I have watched Schalke a number of times and Matip is usually a regular, initially as defensive midfielder, and since Goretzka came, a centre back. IMO I don't think Matip is anything but a decent squad, and if he joins that will be to replace Toure I would think.

18 Dec 2015 13:37:20
I think he's more than a squad player tbf. I've not watched a lot of him but he hasn't missed a single minute of league football for Schalke who are one of the top teams in Germany.

According to Sqwaka he is statistically the 6th best performing defender in Europe this season. He certainly won't trade regular gametime for a European heavy weight for a place as a squad player, put it that way. He's 24. If he was 21 or 34 then yeah he'd perhaps accept a squad role but he will come to fight for a starting place. He'd certainly walk into our back 4 in my opinion.

18 Dec 2015 14:18:58
IMO he is no better than Lovren or Skrtel. For a big guy, he gets easily dominated and I feel he doesn't assert himself physically enough. His passing is average too.

18 Dec 2015 14:25:46
I`ve seen him play over the years for Schalke and for Cameroon at the last two WC`s and I think he`s more than decent BUT I think we can do a little bit better than that.

18 Dec 2015 13:07:16
Mine is closest to AG's view. We did buy one Tall Greek couple of years back.

18 Dec 2015 15:17:22
I would say if he knows the basics of defending and is consistent with it then he is already a step ahead of skrtel. Some on here were bemoaning the purchase of gomez until he played for us and cemented a place in the team with some good performances albeit still a bit raw.

Matip looks solid enough to me and should toure and/or skrtel leave he is a readymade step in. Lfc cannot always buy the top of the list finished article and we need to be realistic as to who we can target.

18 Dec 2015 09:47:28
Lads and Eds, Merry Xmas to all,

So the special one needs a club now huh, didn't actually believe they would sack him but there ya go. was only this year he won the league, if I'm honest they have blundered.

Rumblings are united are nearly ready to let van gaal go too. Now a bad thing at first glance for them or us. But what if? Lads, what if united go and and hire the mou, it's a scary thought to be honest. A bigger club than Chelsea, more power to attract players, and the money he would have but also with the ability to spend it. I'm not positive but don't they still have the biggest income? Giving them more to play with as far as FFP is concerned?

Would be a scary combo, they already play boring unattractive football, but then add the Mou and the ability both club wise and financially to buy what ever players they want and it's not a nice thing to contemplate. Let's hope Madrid take him back and it's not something that needs to be considered.

I've just got a nagging feeling we could see this happen after Xmas.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed023's Note - First off, merry xmas to you too and secondly don't worry what other teams do, we have Klopp!!}

18 Dec 2015 10:31:20
Chelsea have all the money in the world with the power to attract players. No different to Utd. I don't see their football becoming any more entertaining with Maureen either. I think Jose would be a risk for anyone - he's divisive, arrogant and controversial, not the type guaranteed to bring a calm stability to a club. My money is on him going to Munich with Pep coming to the BPL.
Either way, who really cares - we know we landed the creme de la creme of modern managers - let the rest of them squabble over seconds.

18 Dec 2015 10:24:54
Cheers Ed023, not so daunting knowing we have Kloppity Klaus at the helm, and I seriously have no doubt that in 2-3 years with him still in charge we could very well be what we once were, not only feared in the prem but throughout Europe too. But United and Mou is like a cross between Darth Vader and kryptonite. It would become the 2 biggest forces for good vs the biggest forces of evil, and well, good always wins but there's casualty so along the way. Either think with both teams led by Klopp and Jose could well be the return of english sides dominating Europe and that can't be a bad thing now can it?

{Ed023's Note - I honestly don't care much for what United, Chelsea, Arsenal or whoever does - the only time I care for those clubs is when they are the opposition or if their game has anything to do with Liverpool in terms of the league. If I stressed myself for every rumour associated with a rival there would be nothing done lol}

18 Dec 2015 11:42:32
Anne, do u think the Kaiser FranzBeckenbauer would allow mourinho anywhere with 2km radius of Munich Allianz arena?

18 Dec 2015 14:02:07
Munich are only interested in the top tier managers and, although Mourinho is a nob, he has pedigree from previous success. I'm not in the know or anything - just a feeling. Happy to be proven wrong though.

18 Dec 2015 14:40:00
Mourinho is not wanted, that much I can almost guarantee. As for Ed23`s comments, i support them completely. What other clubs do or don`t do should not bother you. Let`s focus on our team and games and players and leave the other clubs to focus on us because with Klopp, they know we are a threat.

18 Dec 2015 02:46:55
Just wanted to say poetic justice in the end. Claudio being the final straw that got JM fired. It seems to be written in the stars.

Believable9 Unbelievable0

18 Dec 2015 07:51:35
Not that I care about JM but I don't see how - JM didn't make CR lose his job, Abramovic did!

17 Dec 2015 22:50:33
Hi ed1 if your about what actually happened with mourinho at chelsea? Is this player power at its worst or was it just the mourinho got bored / disilusioned with his job? Its just bizarre as chelsea was his "club" so to speak when he left real he could of prob gone anywhere but when back there and now seems to have completly lost it? I have nothing against him at all his tactics and style of footy weren't always pleasing but he was a good manager and i thought he was a good man manager so just strange to see this happen? Also do u think he's going back to real as i thought the same happened there with him? I know ronaldo and co are likly to leave next season if real don't get hit with a transfer ban but it could be a bit of history repeating itself in that you should never go back! Also goes to show no matter how big the name your never safe in football!

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - it just wasn't working out, in huge part down to player power, but he made mistakes which drove a wedge between himself and the players. Yes the same happened at Real Madrid but Perez wants him to come back.}

18 Dec 2015 06:42:11
Was getting rid of Eve part of the reason the players lost respect for him Ed?

{Ed001's Note - I believe that was a part of it, yes, but it was only an issue because of there being so many other problems. It was just a snowball rolling down a hill at the time, gathering up every little thing to add to it.}

18 Dec 2015 06:49:02
IMO, getting rid of all the players who contributed to this mess is a bad idea, because it was virtually the whole team. It was Mourinho's methods which drove them to this. Even if Mourinho stayed, and got himself a brand new team, this exact situation could have happened yet again another 3 years' time.

{Ed001's Note - if they had sold Hazard in the summer, I very much doubt there would have been any problems this year.}

18 Dec 2015 07:56:47
I really hope (and this is based on no information whatsoever) that the core of the problem was having a few players on the team with the talent and drive to be the most exciting attacking players in the world i. e. Hazard, Fabregas on his day etc and yet insisting on playing such a boring and defensive brand of football at all times. If player power in getting rid of a manager is generally considering a bad thing for football, players not insulting fans by watching their team sit behind the ball for 90 minutes and sneak a goal or two, despite being vastly superior players, is a win of sorts to me.

18 Dec 2015 08:18:39
I know this isn't the Chelsea page, but what exactly has Hazard done in all of this, ed? Because it seems to have infected nearly the the whole team.

{Ed001's Note - believed his own hype.}

18 Dec 2015 09:25:40
You really think that's the root of all these problems though? Perhaps all of the players believed their own hype. The problem was that Jose still wanted this siege mentality, this determination to prove the doubters wrong, which contradicts the players' mindset that they have nothing else to prove.

{Ed001's Note - that was not the problem, that is something that is simply not true, as the players are always being told by media etc they have something to prove. So they always have a target to aim for. The siege mentality failed when the siege was no longer bringing them all together, with Hazard believing his hype and no longer trying as he was.}

18 Dec 2015 11:44:57
This is first time player power drove a team manager to be sack. Then is there a case of players being charged by FA for not playing the game? ( if it can be proven) isn't this as bad as match fixing?

18 Dec 2015 08:54:40
I'm still waiting for his suarez/bale season. We all talk about how good he is but really is he?

Good player but I don't think he's great tbh.

Same as Oscar I don't think he's better than coutinho.

Where talking about players who have been in this league for four/five years.

20 Dec 2015 01:32:59
I've never really rated Oscar that highly. Does some nice things and tbf he was good yesterday! But too many times i think he goes missing and just nothing that special. Couts has always been the CAM brazilian for me! I also quite like Lucas at PSG, I know PC sometimes doesn't play his best but he just has something about him!