Liverpool Banter Archive November 17 2011
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17 Nov 2011 23:32:31
I scrolled a quarter of the way down to see what the commotion was about and I gave up. You are innocent until proven guilty. Everyone, whether red or manc has to understand that. For me, even if Suarez is found guilty, I would still support him as he plays for Liverpool FC. No I am not a racist. I live in Singapore, a country which has strict laws against racial and religious abuse. Everyday when I go to school I interact with many people of different races. It's not about your race, it's about your allegiance.
Keith YNWA
So for you racism is ok as long as he plays for your team
I Q of what 70?
Pardoe
Did I say that? So you mean because he's a racist Liverpool FC should sell him? IF he is found guilty, and show that he is willing to repent, he deserves a second chance. It's amazing how unforgiving you can be. Didn't you forgive Shrek last year after "betraying" your club? Or his wife? So are you condoning such behaviour?
Keith YNWA
IF he is found guilty, he fully deserves the punishment. After that, however, he should be forgiven and given a second chance.
Keith YNWA
17 Nov 2011 23:23:54
January in: 1. Ryad Boudebouz (RWM); 2. Luuk de Jong (RF/ST)
Alternatives: 1. Reus, Marin, Gaitan or Shaqiri; 2. Podolski, Rémy, Muniain or Mertens
Out: Brad Jones, Fabio Aurelio and Maxi Rodriguez
Team after the january transfer window:
GK: Reina, Doni and Hansen
RB: Kelly, Johnson and Flanagan
RCB: Carragher, Skrtel and Wisdom
LCB: Agger, Coates and Wilson
LB: Enrique and Robinson
CDM: Lucas Leiva, Spearing, Coady
CM: Henderson, Adam
RWM: *Boudebouz
AM: Gerrard, Suso
LWM: Downing, Sterling
RF: *de Jong and Kuyt
CF: Suarez and Carroll
LF: Bellamy
In the summer I think we need 1 CDM, 1 AM and 1 ST/CF/LF
Among all the rumours these would be the best potential transfers:
CDM: Sissoko (can also play CM or AM), L. Bender, S. Bender or Martínez
AM: Eriksen, Ramírez, Lucas Moura, Kagawa, Hazard, Gotze or Honda
ST/CF/LF: Welliton, Podolski, Villa, Higuaín, Leandro Damiao, Llorente, Lavezzi, Doumbia, Rémy or Mertens
Out would go: Darby, Aquilani, Cole, Pacheco and Eccleston
If Carragher retires we need a new CB and if Kuyt goes we need another attacking option besides above mentioned positions, though it could very well be one of those players above mentioned. For the CB the following would be good alternatives:
CB: Hummels, Subotic, Musacchio, Breno or Douglas. (Think it unlikely that G. Cahill or Shawcross would be brought in).
LFC for life
17 Nov 2011 23:20:30
I see that Liverpool are going to call on the Uruguayian embassy to back Suarez. I think that its really important that we have a siege mentality going into the next few games and we all stick together and get the results we want. We cant let the FA walk all over our great club. This is where we are most dangerous and lets come out fighting.
Mighty reds
Don't word it like that come out fighting. The thoughtpolice Ash and Blair will be round first thingnickin ya for expressing your opinion that's not limp wristed enough. Jonson
17 Nov 2011 22:47:36
Team I would love to see against Chelsea:
---------------Reina------------------
-----Kelly--Skrtel--Agger--Enrique-----
----------------Lucas-----------------
--Kuyt--Henderson--Downing/Maxi--Bellamy-
----------------Suarez----------------
Ed001, I was just wondering what has happened to Maxi? Personally I thought the chemistry between him, Suarez, Kuyt and Meireles was the biggest reason for our turnaround, Personally I would like him to play a bit more in a CM of three, a position he has played a lot for Argentina. He is not the greatest tackler but never shirks his responsibility positionally, and is a much more tactical tackler then Adam. Just wondering if I could pick your brain :) lol.
Jatt YNWA {Ed001's Note - I actually agree about Maxi, to a degree, I think he is a much better central midfielder, especially in a quick passing team. I don't understand why he didn't get a chance in there, I can see why he is not getting one now, with Kenny trying to get the players to build up an understanding.}
17 Nov 2011 22:25:56
16 Nov 2011 09:27:08
Eds must admit I'm a bit disappointed not to be hearing us linked with affaley any more. Do you know what the latest is with him? Could he leave barca in jan?
Dave {Ed001's Note - he has suffered injuries, forget him for now, his knee injury will keep him out until well into next year.}
-------------
cruciate ligament rupture keeping him out till April (ish) next year............(was also out the game with muscular probs for a couple months (ish) before that also ................Jim22
17 Nov 2011 22:24:25
Hi Ed - I see Torres has taken the opportunity to have another pop at Liverpool, saying that Liverpool haven't told the fans the real reason for him leaving.
Is there any substance to this or is he just trying mischeive making? Thanks.
JRG {Ed001's Note - well there is some substance, but it is also a comment designed to try and get a better reception rather than any real substance.}
Thanks Ed - who is he attempting to get a better reception from, the Liverpool or Chelsea fans? Lol
JRG {Ed001's Note - both. He doesn't want to be seen as a mercenary, but I think it is a bit late for him now.}
The story the club has given and what Torres says will never be the same. Each side will take a different view of the details.
What was the reason then? was it the club promised him big name signings? get a grip torres. no one player tells the club what to do
17 Nov 2011 22:20:31
JRG - I'm a lifelong UTD fan, defecting ha, no chance. Not only am I a Man Utd fan I'm also a fan of common sense, hence my post yesterday regarding Saurez. I see us Utd boys have taken over your page today.... HERBIE
Common sense? Now that's not something there has been an awful lot of recently!!
It's nice to have you United boys and girls on our page for a change, just remember to take your shoes of before coming in and it's always polite to bring a bottle.
JRG
Being a United fan, is nothing to boast about HERBIE mate. You should've said you were a Shrewsbury fan, we would pay more attention to your posts then.
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
Scurvy,
We don't need your Manc crap traffic on here. We have the most heavily trafficked page on this site. More that all others combined most recently and at least 5 times more than yous.
Chi-Paul
17 Nov 2011 22:04:37
ed 1 or 2 i recently seen a torres interview there, and he mentions the real story about his transfer hasn't came out yet. Do any of you's know what he's talking about?
Ls 7 -_- {Ed001's Note - I haven't seen the interview, but I don't believe anything he has to say regarding the transfer, there are other sides to the story than most people talk about. But at the end of the day he was tapped up and went for the money.}
Ah, torres is just a goat. Same goes for evra for that matter.
Cuchulainn's Hounds
17 Nov 2011 22:00:44
Anyone think Suarez and Carrol will both start on Sunday? Arsenal scored 5 with pace and movement.....Bellamy for a start?
Spriggo
Suarez with Bellamy or Kuyt with Carroll coming on as an early sub imo.
maka
YNWA JFT96
17 Nov 2011 21:26:05
I have a genuine question for Ed001 and the rest of the Liverpool fans. With the FA charging Suarez with abusive language are you concerned that, IF Suarez is found guilty, the punishment will be intensified by current goings on regarding Sepp Blatter? With the English footballing community calling for his head and shouting from the rooftops about "zero tollerance" the FA may have left themselves with no other choice than to hit Suarez with a heavier than normal ban IF the hearing goes against him. Do any of worry that is likely?
TK-Red {Ed001's Note - no, I will worry about it when/if it happens myself.}
Actually I think if has been reported that if found guilty he could get 6 game ban that would be so light as to make the racism row piss poor .if you wanted it stopped it should be 6 months
Pardoe
Any ban will be measured against similar situations. If it is excessive Suarez will appeal.
17 Nov 2011 21:26:42
Hey eds, not really a rumour, but is it likely that we will have identified about 40 players as potential targets for January? Or will be be watching 4 or 5 and specifically going for them? Thanks.
Shan O'B. {Ed002's Note - I doubt either case.}
17 Nov 2011 21:13:50
Would love to see Kelly RB and Johnson RM agaisnt chelsea.
Would give us help defensively against there 3 man attack.
KT!
17 Nov 2011 21:10:00
OK guys I have a request: FOR NOW, lets stop all the Suarez thing, I feel so sorry for the EDS. Lets show our Liverpool humour and lets get to some serious banter going, the mancs are laughing at us now!
ps I love suarez and hope everything gets sorted but for now I want to wait and see what happens with the FA
Tel 1949
17 Nov 2011 21:01:30
I wish those who are supporing Suarez on this would sign off. Doesn't make you a racist contary what some of our esteemedposters might think. Jonson
---------------------------------------------------
I agree with Jonson. It seems that if you post your honest opinion and it contradicts what the "official" politically correct" response should be then you've got the likes of Blair Mayne accusing you of wanting to burn a cross and wear a white pointy hat, advocating racism or being ignorant and have the opinion of a section people in Mississippi in the 50's and 60's. People are conveniently forgetting to post their name because of fear of being ganged up on by the self-appointed moral code police. The whole situation makes my eyes bleed, and though I understand that the editors have an obligation to sensor or delete posts, I think they are at risk of giving self-gratifying posters the chance to bully people with their moral high ground.
Who is Blair Mayne to tell me or you what is right or wrong? Or any other over opinionated poster for that matter. He and they are nobody to tell me or you what's what, and if they want to get on their soap box and talk about selling Suarez "IF" he's found guilty then that's just their opinion. If you think something different then you shouldn't feel guilty. Just post your name.
These men and/or woman of plastic impeccable moral standards just like to make themselves sound like the voice from above. Pat yourselves on the back lads and girls; you're the best of the best. Don't start your own mini witch hunt if you don't think somebody else's views conform to yours though.
Scott78
Well said Scott mate.
Guess who? YNWA JFT96
Great post Scott there does seem to be a few do gooders. mighty reds
Didn't you tell me 'to have a word, with myself' Scott? Can you see the irony, in your post? lol
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
Now im a 'do gooder' because I don't condone racism, in any shape or form? The mind boggles?
Speak to you soon lads, I'm off to St Paul's cathedral. Pitching a tent can take hours and my back's f*cked.
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
Ps. Say no to capitallism!
My word Scott, you do talk a load of crap. Just because Blair and a few others including myself have said IF Suarez is guilty of racism, we should get rid, doesn;t mean anyone is trying to be "better" than anyone else. Just because you don't have the balls to answer what could become a very real question, don't try and slag us of as "do gooders" or "self esteemed" posters like Jonson has, just because we think racisn is wrong coming out of anyones mouth.
Ash
Jonson called me a "self esteemed poster"?. Cheers Jonson, that's the nicest thing that anyone has called me on here.
I am being sincere mate, so please no 8500 word, 14 paragrath rant, thanks.
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
Ps. AC is rubbish. lol
Ash It's you who talks crap not Scott who you might of well have called a racist along with myself. It's exactly like i said supporting Suarez isn't crime. We as fans as long as the club are supporting him i will but some who have wrote posts today wont for fear of a muppet like you jumping down their throat for supporting racism, when all their doing is supporting one of own players who charged or not is innocent until proven guilty. Jonson
If you read the thread from the start I never mentioned your name Blair, but if you want to be a self styled esteemed poster to go along with being the though police leader that's fine by me. Jonson
17 Nov 2011 20:54:16
Who is the best young striker out there apart from Luis Suarez? If only Liverpool had another striker of his calibre to play up front. Who will be the fourth striker to complement Suarez, Kuyt and Carroll?
17 Nov 2011 20:48:49
Hi eds i would like your opinion on Peter Scudamores comments saying that there is no chance of breakaway and that the prem will not be reduced.
Mighty reds {Ed001's Note - he is hardly going to say anything else really, his comments are just an irrelevance, it is almost certain to happen, unfortunately.}
17 Nov 2011 20:47:22
JRG - Some of the Utd boys have killed the Olympic/Euro talk, i agree, but did you notice how did'nt comment on them posts. Any my aim today is complete, i broke the monatomy of this page up and made it more interesting, did you notice that to ;~} .... HERBIE
Yeah fair play to you HERBIE mate it's nice to be talking about football again, although I fear it may not last long.
To be honest the only name I ever see on the United page is Sydney's - that bloke has an opinion on everything.
I was thinking that with your post yesterday about Suarez and coming on here now to cheer us up are you considering defecting to the best team that play in red?
JRG
17 Nov 2011 20:33:55
KT - Obsessed, me? Are you sure? I made 1 post On Saurez yesterday which half defended him, read it mate. I also commented once on anothe post, that was it. As for us on the UTD page going on about it i urge you to read Utd's page for today and see if your right. You are clueless sir.... HERBIE
Touch a nerve Herbie?
What's the name of that Calvin Klein perfume? ;)
KT!
17 Nov 2011 20:28:56
i see one of the first people to start piping up against blatter today, surprise surprise a utd player, thats two that have far too much to say for themselves
17 Nov 2011 20:06:19
Blair, fair do's, i understand now why you spend so much time on the UTE page. Lavers, don't worry, this is my last visit to your page, you boys are more depressing than my ex misses.... HERBIE(MUFC)
What you had a wife?
I feel sorry for her
Danny
C'mon HERBIE all I have been reading on the United page for the last few days is 'this is my England team' 'This is the squad I would take to the Euro's' or 'this is my Olympics squad' god talk about dull. No one cares about England and definitely not the blooming Olympics.
I think you are better of on the United page talking about how Phil Jones is the best player to ever play for England even though he makes Carrick look dynamic and adventurous. ; )
JRG
As he should JRG considering he is a defender.
TK-Red
17 Nov 2011 20:05:57
I see that Sylvain Marveaux of Newcastle is to undergo groin surgery and is expected to be out for sometime - looks like we really dodged a bullet with this guy.
JRG
Unlike us. We usually go for an injured new signing.
The Real KB
But this guy was a free transfer - we only BUY injured players! ; )
JRG
17 Nov 2011 19:18:32
I blame Dalglish for the Suarez trouble. He's the one that should be keeping the players in check. And if Suarez gets found guilty and gets a ban, then Kenny should be sacked. We need a manager with more control of the players, especially regarding issues of race.
My first choice would be Ron Atkinson.
Your post makes no sense. Suarez is a man not a boy and Dalglish is certainly not his father. I hope nothing more comes out of this and that Luis can just keep up his good form. But, if the FA ban him it will certainly not be Kenny's fault. When Cantona went into the stands and karate kicked that fan many years ago, was that Ferguson's fault? Come on, man.
Canadian Fan
What about the Ex Spanish manager? What's his name Ed? Made the lovely comment to one of his players regarding a black player? Henry maybe?
The Irish Rover {Ed001's Note - Luis Aragones.}
Didn't big Ron call marcel desailly a racist word?
Just ignore the troll.
KT!
Think the origanal post was sarcasm getting at the posters who are not happy with Kenny.
Waro
Oh, it seems our famed sense of humour has gone the way of our patience with our managers.
I still think Big Ron could sort out any race issues at the club. His old number 2, Andy Gray could also stamp out any problems with sexism at the club. Sexism is still a Gray area in football, unfortunately.
No, Cantona kicking a paying customer to a football match was not Fergies fault, but I'm pretty sure that Cantona got footballer of the year that year. When you think that Duncan Ferguson actually did time for his fanny head butt, there is only one word I can think of.
Disgraceful.
Scott78
17 Nov 2011 19:06:03
Gotta say you Pool boys are mind numbingly boring. You've been posting the same thing all day, asking the same question. Give the Ed's a break, they must be bored out of there minds with it by now.... HERBIE(MUFC)
I've read some of your posts on the Manc site HERBIE mate. And I have to say, they are better than Zimovane (sleeping tablets). Keep them coming mate, i've run out of Zimovane and I need to be up early tomorrow.
Thanks..
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
There's one simple answer to that HERBIE ........
LAVERS
Come on Herbie, it's all your lot have been going on about on your page, you included.
Obsessed? ;)
KT!
17 Nov 2011 18:30:17
Hi all
hi ed's i have two questions sorry if im just repeating one of them
1. if suarez if found guilty what would the ban he would receive
2. if Suarez is banned for a few months would the club look to a loan or possibly buy another striker if so to the loan or buy who do you think the club would go for ??
ramythered {Ed002's Note - We really don't know.}
LFC support him 100% so i cannot see him being Banned, Loaned or sold
His punishment will be a handshake apparently.
MIKEY
Lol mikey
17 Nov 2011 18:23:04
Soo it looks like Koptalk were right about the young lad from MK dons joining? Very exciting prospect. Finally we're looking like our youth policy will pay dividends in a few years.
Sorry but who are ya talking about mate.
Seyi ojo
17 Nov 2011 18:14:35
I think it is telling that Luis has been charged by the FA and not the Police. The fact that the Police have looked in to this and the FA held back until the Police had investigated indicates that the Police feel there is not case against Suarez. Unfortunately the FA will not require the same standard of proof as a court of law and we all know that the Mancs have the FA in their pocket. I can see the FA siding with Evra despite lack of evidence against Suarez. This will also help the FA in their anti-Blatter campaign.
Evra is a weasly Manc git - and calling someone a Manc is the most offensive phrase I know.
Bob
Thank god an LFC fan with a brain...Good on ya mate
MJ
17 Nov 2011 18:13:42
The word used is Negrito, from what I can gather online and is used to state 'small, black, man' While it may not just be used descriptively as the phrase is intended to be used. It may well be very common for other cultures such as Uruguay to use it in a common non-racist context.
The professor
We are forgetting what Suarez has said himself about the incident. He said he called Evra something that his utd teammates have also called him. So forget speculation about 'negrito', there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that this actually is the word used. QED if Suarez is being charged because he 'said' he said something, then some of the utd players could face a charge also.
ferd
I assure you this is the word which was used, Im sure it will be out at some point. Can't say how i know only that i do.
The professor
17 Nov 2011 17:58:52
Let's hope Suarez and Terry don't have a falling out on Sunday !!
Lol.
The Real KB
17 Nov 2011 17:43:31
Just wondering, if Suarez is found not guilty of making racist remarks towards Evra, and proven that Evra lied about the whole thing. What would/should happen to Evra?
I don't think it's a case of Evra lying. From what has been said by Suarez, Evra has taken offence to something Suarez has said. If Suarez is found not guilty, it will be because what he said wasn't meant to be racial abuse, not because he hasn't said anything.
Rugby Parker
It will all be seen as a big misunderstanding between the two players im sure. They will be told just as blatter said to shake hands and forget about it. Thats just my opinion. Im sure evra believes he was abused but it all got lost in translation and suarez's take on english is not the best. The fa will see this and we all move on.
kopfiend 1978 ynwa
Nothing can or should happen to Evra. If Suarez is found not guilty then it's will probably be due to a lack of evidence. Just because there is no concrete evidence to prove Evra's claims doesn't mean he is lying. You will also find that if you try to accuse Evra of lying then there will be no evidence to prove it. It works both ways. If there is not enough evidence to convict Suarez then there can't be enough to convict Evra of lying as both claims involve the same incident.
17 Nov 2011 17:40:39
We have such a great talent from our academy. When do you think KK will give em a chance to play for our team? Such as Suso , Sterling , Amoo and Coady. {Ed002's Note - Amoo will not play. He is out on loan and I expect he could move permanently in the summer. Suso and Sterling are young and will likely go on loan when 18 and Coady will eventually be integrated in to the squad.}
17 Nov 2011 17:37:10
Liverpool FC are backing Suarez so i will aswell.
Until there is a decision then i will back Suarez/LFC 100%.
If found guilty of racism then i want the book thrown at him and the same for John Terry.
KT!
I will support Suarez even if found guilty. I believe he is innocent if not everybody deserves a second chance in life. There are too many do gooders.
mighty reds
Agree mate, everyone deserves a second chance. If suarez has used racist terms which i personally think is false, he shud be fined n given a couple of matches ban, n then get on with his liverpool career. He is our best player, n deserves our support.
Indian Buzzer
17 Nov 2011 17:11:16
Blair and Dw
what i am saying is the club need to stick by Suarez whatever. I believe he is innocent if found guilty then he does his punishment and carries on playing for liverpool. Why keep punishing somebody that has been punished.
Mighty reds
17 Nov 2011 17:02:44
Can we please stop talking about the suarez racism situation, The mancs should bugger off to their own page, the LFC fans who agree with the mancs should support someone else and the true LFC fans should just basically show their support...At the end of the day there is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF in Evra's claim and im sure Suarez's Lawyer will point that out
MJ
God bless you mj lad bob paisleys skids
And you know how, there 's no proof in Evra's claims MJ? Do you work at the FA? Or do you work for the LFC legal department?
The truth is no-one knows, so we'll just have to wait for the hearing. Then IF Luis is found guilty, i'll phone him myself and tell him, to get the f*ck out of our club. Only IF Luis is found guilty of course, how's that mate?
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
Ps. Don't worry he'll be ok, I promise.
None of the camera's or microphones picked anything up nor did the ref or linesmen and if he is found guilty its only because the FA are under pressure because then it's just stupid but i guess only true fans feel the same as me
MJ
Again MJ, how do you know this? Don't tell me, now you're an editing assistant for Sky Sports, aswell as a 'true fan' lol
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
Blair dont you think if ANYBODY picked up any proof, A video clip or recording it would be plastered in every paper or every news cast, the fact that no one has said anything in my eyes says there is nothing to strengthen Evra's case, If there is proof i will apologise to you for my belief is suarez's innocence, and yes i am a true fan and i have faith that he is innocent but you seem to think on the same wavelength as man utd fans and shout from the rooftops that he should in your words F*CK off just try and support him instead of going head to head with a believer in his innocence I.E Me thats the last thing im gonna say on the subject, Im sure you'll have a whitty reply but will have to read it 2moro im signing off now so later
MJ
You don't have to apologise to anyone MJ, especially for voicing your own opinions mate. I'm with the masses, I don't think he did it but the FA think he has a case to answer, which worries me.
This is the last time I will speak about it too mate, we've a massive game on Sunday.
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
Blair, when was the last time the FA did anything in a sensible manner?. The simple fact is that they only charged Suarez AFTER he appears to have implicated himself as actually saying something in the El Paiz interview. They have been looking for a way out desperately for 4 weeks now. Allegations have been made, but 40000 supporters and 27 cameras not to mention 22 players, numerous stewards, officials and staff heard and seen nothing. To do nothing would be seen as ignoring it, especially as the Terry incident came along afterwards. So they must have breathed a sigh of relief when Suarez admitted to saying something. Now they can charge him and fudge it as cultural issues and not be seen as "doing nothing".
ferd
This is what I believe Ferd. Suarez has implicated himself, thinking that what he said wasn't bad. Unfortunately what you can get away with in Spainish speaking countries, you can't in the UK. Like I said earlier, ignorance isn't really an excuse.
The Irish Rover
For those saying "how do you know there is no evidence" because the FA or skysports or whoever covered it up think about john terry and how you can see him clearly shout a racist comment in a video whereas there is no video showing suarez do that.
Your post makes the most sense, of any i've read on here Ferd.
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
17 Nov 2011 16:39:32
ED, correct me if I'm wrong but is it not the police that are dealing with the Suarez/Evra race row.
see people on here, basically stating that it's the FA's fault Suarez has been charged and they are only going with Evra's word.
Surely, if it's a police investigation then they must have found some concrete evidence to charge him with racism?
Cheers. {Ed002's Note - It is nothing to do with the police.}
Cheers Ed. I thought it was. May have got it mixed up with another football related case.
17 Nov 2011 16:37:32
Are the club backing suarez because its gone to far to back out or do they believe he will be proved innocent ? Any evidence there is would have been leaked to thd media by now. I really believe the f.a. are making a big mistake.(rdred)
The club are backing suarez because he is an LFC player and has never had any racism claims made against him in his whole career
MJ
If Suarez was racist ddo you not think the black players at ajax would of not said something about this incident . I am sorry but this is another evra cry wolf he has history of this before against a Liverpool player . What makes me wonder about this case is ferguson draging evra to the referees room if it is found that there is no case to answer will the F.A charge Ferguson for wasting police and the |FA time
17 Nov 2011 16:25:28
I wish those who are supporing Suarez on this would sign off. Doesn't make you a racist contary what some of our esteemedposters might think. Jonson
I'm supporting Suarez, Suarez is our player, Evra is not. Simple as that really.
Pete
I support Suarez and I am not a racist. I can't understand why people on this site seem to have a total lack of knowledge of the situation. Suarez has been charged because Evra has pursued his allegation. He has not been proven guilty, the investigation has not been concluded (possibly not started yet), and all we know at the moment is a) Evra's claiming he racially abused him 10 times, and b) Suarez has been quoted as saying the term is common-place in his native tongue, and he meant no offence. Please, lets stop all the accusations and fantasy scenarios of punishment until the case is heard and decided upon. In the meantime, good luck on Sunday Luis Suarez and the rest of the boys.
Rugby Parker
Guilty or not guilty im still supporting suarez.
kopfiend 1978 ynwa
Kopfiend I totally agree with you mate. mighty reds
17 Nov 2011 16:10:57
dear DCG, I agree , Suarez hasnt been proven guilty, but that was why i used the IF word. its a hypothetical argument in response to the large number of people here saying that he should be sacked ' IF' he did it. It could be about any player. I really dont get why youre attacking me as we seem to be making the same point. I agree I dont know Rooney or Suarez so I dont wish to judge them as people, I think people do certain things out of ignorance , not because they are evil.
I mean did you actually READ my post at all? Plus my point is formulated and informed by the fact that YES I HAVE DONE WRONG in the past, pretty horrible things in fact. and was punished for those things and rightly so. but those actions dont define me as a human being. i learnt from it and humbly accepted peoples willingness to see past my actions and give me another chance.
I think this issue may be getting out of hand now and the eds are getting tired of it by now I'd say, and Im only adding to it maybe . I just wanted to offer up a more diplomatic opinion.
Dara D
17 Nov 2011 15:10:09
The FA will talk about all his past form and will take that into account re of the outcome of these charges. I believe the'll find him guilty on a charge of giving him s**t,not racism but mud sticks. LUiS will then be still labeled a racist re of the out come. It's a shame this kangaroo court on here that most fan's are hanging him on here so imagine what the FA will be be thinking. I'll get slaughtered for this but if found guilty of the racist charge on the basis of word against word between the 2 player's because i believe that Evra is talking out of his hole and tried and not done bad job so far of stitching an easy target up like a kipper. I dont condone racism at all but people keep talking about what would happen at work and how the'd be sacked. Well if someone racially abused me 10 times plus in any walk of life it be it on a football pitch,in the street or anywhere else for that matter i wouldn't let it get past once maybe twice if I thought they were joking and quite a few would wouldn't let it happen to them. As i've said Evra has no self control and would've said something to the ref,done Suarez in a tackle or more then likely flipped right out. Only thing he did do was roll around like a little girl trying to get Suarez booked. Ps hope i've not offended any kippers. Jonson
Totally agree jonson evra's not the type of person/player to let suarez get away with it especially the 10 times he's alleging,something stinks here,how can the FA take one mans word over another.
paul
Whats the most amazing thing is that evra is alleging it was said 10 times now with all the tv cameras an other players/officials around nobody saw or heard anything.
yet terry said what he said once and it was caught kinda makes you wonder if luis said anything how it wasnt caught.
What I would say is how many off you were jumping on harry's back regarding his so called tax evasion, saying he's going to jail etc, well maybe he's guilty maybe he's not, but at the minuet its alleged, now suarez is a racist and should be sent down or should we wait until both are proven guilty before we judge? tbh I hope both are found not guilty. But it seems funny how someone can.judge until judgement comes knocking on their door
17 Nov 2011 15:05:54
On the Suarez issue, if we appeal will the ban be put back until the appeal has been heard, so he could play Chelsea, City and Chelsea again before being banned for the easier December games?
Also, may it be said that the FA will not go harsh on him, as if they do they have to similar if not worse to John Terry and they will not wish to make a farce of that issue with him being England captain and all?
Any thoughts would be appreciated eds?
Anfield Andy {Ed002's Note - He has only been charged, not found guilty and not banned.}
Oh, cheers for that, lads in work obviously cultivating the rumour mill.
Anfield Andy
17 Nov 2011 14:56:10
Suarez will have explained his case to Kenny and the club managers, and they are standing fully in support of him.
It seems unlikely there is any sound or video evidence, but Suarez has been honest enough to openly admit saying something to Evra anyway. He didnt have to do that.
If he was dishonest he could have denied saying anything, and with no evidence they would have been unable to prove anything against him.
I believe he is a man of integrity, and that he felt it best to be honest about effectively saying something like 'hey watch it, mate.'
LFC will have heard his explanation, and they are standing by him. They must be happy that whatever he said was acceptable enough in his native country that it was not racial abuse.
I trust KK's judgement, and if he has heard Luis's story and still supports him, then so do I.
I feel that Evra must have known about the use of such words being ok in Uruguay and Spanish speaking countries, but he wanted to cause mischief.
It is inappropriate playing of the race card that does a lot of damage to the cause of anti-racism.
Yes, Luis used the word particularly to Evra and not to white players, so in the FAs eyes and rules, he could be found guilty of using a word that refers to a players race background.
They may choose not to bear in mind the fact that this is common practice in Luis's country, in order to make an example of him.
17 Nov 2011 14:12:50
hi guys, just been glued to the site over the suarezgate saga, would love to hear your views on what babbel said regarding the situation on twitter. It was along the lines of *free suarez. red head
17 Nov 2011 14:01:40
We shoud all unite behind Suarez and show him our support like Kenny and the club as. We are all quick enough to jump up and down when he scores. So lets give him all our support whatever happens.
Mighty reds
Mighty reds, last night you condoned racisim and said you would stick by suarez if it was proved that he made a racial comment, your a disgrace, its 2012, racisim in this day and age is shocking, you seen how many people asked the eds to remove your comment, disgraceful, DW.
Even if he is found guilty of being racist...
Mighty Reds, havn't you got a cross to burn somewhere? This is the 21st century, not the 1950's-60's in Mississippi.
I can't believe how ignorant, some people can be?
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
If Suarez is found guilty of racism on the word of Evra it wont tarnish my view of him in any way at all.
Reason being i think Evra has is telling bare faced lies. He got in to deep to back track and Suarez is bo easy target. I ain't racist but I don't think Luis is either. I'm 100% certain he'll be found guilty of abusing a player but the racism thing wont hold and he'll get a 3 game ban but he'll be labeled a racist because he's been found guilty of some piss poor charge. Luis Suarez equals easy target all day long in my book,end of story and he's about to be pail roaded that he's a racist. Jonson
I've been a Liverpool supporter since 1981, and I do not believe that Luis Suarez is racist. I think what he said to Evra would have been lost in translation. I'm a british born indian, I myself grew up in the 1970's & 1980's in an area called Feltham, West London. I know what its like to be called racist names. At that time the area was maily populated by english National Front & Pre-BNP supporters. The point I'm making is that I grew up on the receiving end of racial abuse being called a p*ki. I'm kind of conditioned to it in a way, so it does not affect me anymore. I do still think that we live certain areas where pockets of a racist society exist, albeit very slight undertones of it. It will never be spoken of, but insides certain types of bigots will keep their racist views to themselves. I can clearly remember watching the news on New Years Eve 1981 where I saw an asian supporter being kicked by skinheads at a football stadium somewhere. Racism has no place in our society. I do not think for one second that Luis is racist and the FA have got the wrong end of the stick. More than anything it is Sir Whiskey Face trying to goad Evra into this and encouraging him trying to derail LFC.
DW it's 2011...
RustyNigel
DW i am allowed my opinion. thanks mighty reds
17 Nov 2011 13:52:28
So he's guilty then, lets hang him out to dry shall we????!......Oh no we live in a country were you are INNOCENT until proven guilty! I hope, firstly for his sake that Luis hasn't made any racist comments to Evra, and secondly for the club and us the fans. But lets be honest here, firstly, no one and I mean NO ONE on the pitch other than Evra "heard" these comments and if somebody called me the same offensive name 10 times I would make sure someone around me heared it, as would most sensible thinking people. According to reports, Sky have not been able to confirm anything either and again lets be honest if they had don't you think it would have been on every bulletin by now. Let's not forget Luis is OUR player and should be supported in full by us, his manager (which is he is) and the club (again which he is). Should the FA decide he is guilty then lets hope they have the balls to clarify exactly what Luis allegedly said and punish him appropriately. As for fans calling for the club to offload him, ask yourself one question........have you never made a mistake in you're life that you regret and wished you had a chance to attone for it? IF and when he receives a punishment let's show Luis how we feel about him when he returns and not slaughter him for his alleged error............
Great post. Seem's our own fan's are pre judging the outcome of the hearing and most have found him guilty already. Against any other player I might wrongly have done the same myself. His self control would not have allowed him to have been spoken to that many times in such a terrible way. He might have been accused of crying wolf when he hasn't accused people before but their is no doubt in my mind with. The type of character Evra is he would've flipped on the pitch if what Luissaid was racist TEN times. Your kidding me if Suarez said something of that nature. Some words were said but nowt to warrant this bull. Jonson
17 Nov 2011 13:42:03
I think we are all 100% behind Luis. It's what happens IF and only IF, he is found guilty that's dividing us. Lets wait until after his hearing, then we can judge.
We've a massive game on Sunday, 3 points against Chelsea could be huge, come the end of the season.
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
The point I was trying to make Blair was guilty of what ?
Cos it seems that he's on a general misconduct charge, not the discrimination breach. Seems that way. If he's guilty of misconduct, he is in no way a racist.
Look at the F.A. Handbook on this.
The Real KB
This is part of Luis's charges KB mate
"It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra. The FA will issue no further comment at this time."
IF he is guilty of this charge, it's racism mate no matter what way you look at it. Only IF he is found guilty of course, fingers crossed it's a lot of bull.
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
Blair, if you look at the F.A. Handbook that quote comes from part of Rule E 3 (1) imo. There is a separate rule on discrimination, Rule 4. He's being done on a cover-all charge. Abusive words / behaviour - we all use those at the match or watching in pub or home. So we'd all get done on that one. It's the race part that is open to question. That's between the two men themselves, unless there's any evidence that hasn't been stated.
The F.A. release does not mention discrimination.
The Real KB
That's what worries me KB mate. What IF they have evidence, to support this charge? If it's only Evra's word against Luis's, then I can't see how they can find Luis guilty.
Me personally don't believe it or refuse to believe it. I'm just getting prepared for the worse possible scenario, after the hearing, IF Luis is found guilty. But I don't think he will, but who knows what evidence the FA have?
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
If they do have evidence, then he gets what's coming to him.
But the club are sticking by Luis anyway, so that's good enough for me.
The Real KB
Quick question Blair, or anyone really.
If Luis is found guilty and is racist, what do you think the club should do with him? Can't really sell him because we will get a fraction of his true value as a result of the incident. fining would be pointless as it is with all footballers.
How would you deal with it?
Jefferson
Me personally Jefferson mate, I would sell him IF he's found guilty. I don't care if it was Kenny, Stevie, Jamie, Poulson, Spearing or anyone who had/has anything to do with our great club, who was found guilty of these charges, imo they would have to go. The FA and EPL prides it's self on being the frontrunner, in the kicking out racism campaign. So IF any player, manager or fans are caught doing this, not only should they be shown the door by their respective clubs, but they should be thrown out of the English game.
In all walks of life, in different jobs. If you are found guilty of racism, you pick your P45 up on the way out the door. This should be no different for footballers imo, but like JRG said who's going to sack a 40 mill asset?
This is just my opinion mate, im with KB. The club have backed him 100%, so thats good enough for me, for now. He has my 100% support and always will, but this could change IF the FA verdict goes against him.
I still think he'll be ok, fingers crossed.
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
17 Nov 2011 13:36:33
For quite some time I've predicted that it was only a matter of time before Suarez would get himself and/or the club in trouble. You've got to question the mentality of a man who is capable of biting and pulling hair.
However, I do not agree with those who say that it is a straight forward case of sacking him if he is found guilty of rascism . Rascism is unacceptable, but people are kidding themselves if the think that this is an isolated incident, it does happen. we worship former liverpool stars that have said much worse things than what Suarez is accused of. Again , that is not to justify or make excuses for him, but common sense must prevail. He is a hot head, capable of doing rash, stupid things, and that must be wiped out. I dont go along with the theory that has been applied when defending Wayne Rooneys behaviour on the pitch (his latest violation was nothing short of assault, purposely kicking a man just for taking the ball off him) . It goes something like this..' ah well, if you take away that aspect of his game, you'll lose the fire , the passion that makes him such a great player'.....BULLs**t. And that example is not used to add to the LFC vs UTD thing. Its a universal point. I dont like Rooney , but we must remember that he's not evil , he's just a gobs**te. Same applies to Suarez, no excuses, no justification, just cut that s**t out.punish them, make them make an apology , discipline them, hopefully council them to get them to learn why you just cant do certain things. have some respect for your fellow players, the club and fans who let you have the best job in the world. I just think it would be over the top to sack him IF he's guilty lessons can be learnt out of this.
Dara D
It seems to me that the Football Association is being extremely two-faced. On the one hand they want to prosecute/ persecute a foreign player for an alleged racist remark and on the other they intend to defend a player who attacked another from behind. This smacks of self-interest. I personally am sick and tired of all the verbal abuse that is shouted out every week. But again we see that the biggest culprit is the one that they are defending. We should also realise that 'racism' is not only abuse by white people against black. There are more factors and we see them every day with insults by supporters of one club against another. Suarez has been brought up in a country where the worf 'negrito' is normal banter. He carried his career to a country where abusive banter is carried out by residents of different cities - vuile Rotterdammer, kut Hagenees,tering Amsterdammer etc. I will also repeat what I said immediately after Evra's allegations were made - how can any person allow themselves to be abused ten times without saying anything to 1) the opposing player 2) the referee 3) his manager and 40 taking action himself even though it would lead to a sending-off. There are also a lot of questions about Evra's own behaviour in the match and I hope that the F.A. have the courage to take this into account during 'THE TRIAL OF THE CENTURY'.
Dutchmal
What an person he hasnt been proven guilty you dont know luis suarez or wayne rooney you see their actions on field when the adrenalin is flowing some people dont have a clue, yes rooney has done wrong but been punished suarez has done nothing wrong as of yet. You need to educate yourself you have clearly never done wrong in your life you saint. Well done.
DCG
Dear DCG, I agree , Suarez hasnt been proven guilty, but that was why i used the IF word. its a hypothetical argument in response to the large number of people here saying that he should be sacked ' IF' he did it. It could be about any player. I really dont get why youre attacking me as we seem to be making the same point. I agree I dont know Rooney or Suarez so I dont wish to judge them as people, I think people do certain things out of ignorance , not because they are evil.
I mean did you actually READ my post at all? Plus my point is formulated and informed by the fact that YES I HAVE DONE WRONG in the past, pretty horrible things in fact. and was punished for those things and rightly so. but those actions dont define me as a human being. i learnt from it and humbly accepted peoples willingness to see past my actions and give me another chance.
I think this issue may be getting out of hand now and the eds are getting tired of it by now I'd say, and Im only adding to it maybe . I just wanted to offer up a more diplomatic opinion.
Dara D
17 Nov 2011 13:35:20
Examples of cases involving racism:
In a high profile case involving a black South African player playing for a Premier League club in European competition, the complaint was made to UEFA and the player was handed a five match ban from competitive football.
It was clear that UEFA found significant grounds of racist abuse, but the issue with this case is whether a five match ban is an appropriate sanction for this kind of abuse. The key questions are whether it was enough to discourage the same player to commit a similar act or to discourage other players from committing similar acts. Many felt that this punishment was not enough for either of these factors.
Is it possible for a football player to take a case of racism to court?:
There has been a case in French football whereby a player who suffered racist abuse at the hands of an opponent took the case to court. The player guilty of the racist abuse was given a suspended jail sentence and a fine of EUR 2,000.
Currently there is a case before the Belgian courts involving a black footballer from the USA who has suffered racist abuse at the hands of one of his opponents. The player has taken the case to court as he feels that the sanctions imposed by the Governing Bodies of the game are not enough in relation to a case like this.
What are the problems with bringing such a case before the court?:
In order for the player to be convicted of using the racist language it must be proven that he did in fact make these racist remarks during the match.
This looks like a difficult task as it is one players word against another's as the other players on the pitch as well as the referee may not have heard the comments being uttered and considering the high profile nature of the match it is likely to assume that the other players would have been too focused on the task in hand to hear the comments.
However, given the nature of the high profile which football currently occupies it is likely that the incident was in fact captured by one of the many cameras used to televise the match. If this is the case then it could be used as evidence.
What will happen if the court finds in favour of the claimant?:
If the court were to find in favour of the claimant then the defendant would be subject to a fine and the possibility of a prison sentence.
What may be more apparent is the effect that a decision like this will have on the sport of football as it would create a clear precedent for all cases of this nature taking them directly out of the internal sphere of the sport and placing them directly within the adjudication of the courts.
The Law of England and Wales
The Race Relations Act 1976:
If a claim were to be brought before a court of England and Wales then the appropriate sections of the Race Relations Act would be cited. The Race Relations Act applies to racial abuse suffered throughout England and Wales and applies directly to all industries including football.
If the Belgian court finds in favour of the claimant then it is likely that footballers will cite the Race Relations Act as a better alternative than going straight to the FA as the sanctions are likely to be much more strict.
(Thought this was interesting enough)
G-Force
17 Nov 2011 13:31:45
Ed how can they charge luis when the only person that seemingly heard him was evra? That is like me beating up someone but the only one to see it was the fella i hit. How can they charge if there is no proof? I'm lost {Ed001's Note - for starters we don't know that there is no proof, there could easily have been something picked up by a directional microphone. Secondly, Evra is asking for something to be done, the FA have to be seen to do something.}
17 Nov 2011 13:22:23
Regarding the whole saurez charge. People are saying in spanish its a pet name others that we live in the UK and its unacceptable here.
Maybe both sides have a point. Maybe has offened and something should be done however its also worth noting that he has offended by acciedent.
Some words should never be used but you have to accept that cultural nievity is a pit fall of imergration.
Lets be honest its not like he's tried to wip up a hate campaign or even intended to be nasty. If guilty punishment is due but lets not lynch the lad for a innocent mistake!
17 Nov 2011 13:06:03
Eds how long did the f.a. have to bring charges against suarez. Is there a time limit on how long they can take to bring charges ?(rdred) {Ed001's Note - as far as I am aware there is no time limit.}
17 Nov 2011 12:54:12
Hi Eds.
I was interested to know, do players at LFC sign a "code of conduct" agreement at the club when joining, if so what does this state!. Many thanks.
Food for thought. {Ed001's Note - all players have a PFA code of conduct to adhere to, I am not sure what it actually states, it is somewhere on the PFA site though.}
17 Nov 2011 12:36:55
Regarding Suarez, can anyone explain to me how he can be charged for something that allegedly happened? {Ed002's Note - That i all any charge is until proven one way or the other.}
17 Nov 2011 12:16:08
Just wanted to say a quick well done to Ed001, the amount of posts that are making this a Liverpool v Man U issue as opposed to a serious and important accusation of immoral language and behaviour and you have strenuously defended Evra for the cases in the past where race allegations have been brought up, but not by him so thank you once again for keeping this unbiased and discussing the facts.
I hope this has all been blown out of proportion and it is something lost in translation. I love to watch Suarez play, admire his work rate and envy his skill, proof of his guilt would change all of that though and he would have to move on. No fan of any team should condone racism, this isn't just the Liverpool way, this is the football way.
I would like to ask people's opinions on where being racist stops and being prejudiced begins. For example, I used to go to a lot of Cardiff City matches growing up and you can Guarantee every time we played a team from England the chants of Sheep Sheep Sheep Sh*ggers would last from the start of the match until the final whistle. No teams were ever pulled up about the conduct of their fans when this was being said, however, it is racist terminology because it is calling someone something abusive because of the country they are from. Now don't get me wrong, I do not find the term Sheep Sh*gger insulting, I take it as a joke, but some people don't and they do find it insulting. Exactly the same as there are names two black people might call each other but if a white person was to call one of these people by the same name, they would find it insulting.
My next and final point/question is this, who decides what racism is and what punishment justifies the crime and if there are any grey areas at all. I ask this for a specific reason. If reports are true that Suarez did call Evra Negrito Hermoso ( my beautiful little black person) and Evra had been playing with Suarez at Ajax and was fine with this, took no offence, but someone else Nani, Rooney, anyone overheard, found Suarez's and Evra's conversation with each other offensive and made a complaint, surely the FA are still obliged to act on something that was said in jest/banter where no party in the original conversation were offended but it could still be deemed that a racist comment was made. What would hapopen in cases like this, because I believe it won't be long before we are going to hear about racism a lot more depending on the outcome and punishments of the Suarez and Terry incidents.
Thanks for reading everyone,
YNWA
WelshScouse
Spot on lad i totally agree, bob paisleys skids
Maybe e found it offensive he called him beautiful cos everyone can see he is an ugly ****
17 Nov 2011 12:08:26
I believe the f.a. have a very weak case against suarez. That is why it took them so long to charge him. Does suarez get to have a solicitor at his hearing ? If so any half decent one should rip the f.a.'s charge to bits.(rdred) {Ed002's Note - The FA are in a no win situation with the fans who will complain regardless. He does have a solicitor.}
Ed2 so you are saying that FA are pressurised into this well how can that be fair to bring a charge against someone. mighty reds {Ed002's Note - I did not say that at all.}
17 Nov 2011 11:59:30
There seems to be a lot of people thinking that Suarez is already guilty!!! Q. What did he say? A. Only 2 people know and I don't trust Evra. He always complains about something when he has a bad game
There have been no images or camera angles from Sky, other TV stations, websites or papers. So let him have his say before laying into him
RedDan
RedDan the fact is nobody knows if evidence has come to light. Just cos it isnt on youtube, doesnt mean it didnt happen.
RedDevil92
I think we do know there is no evidence. If there was as per John Terry, it would be all over the papers and TV. These Journalists will stop at nothing for a story like this and given that Sky have all the microphones you can guarantee nothing was caught.
17 Nov 2011 11:56:03
Back to the Suarez situation:-
IF, found guilty, I really think the club would have no other choice but to dismiss him. I know I, and expect it applies to a lot of us, would be sacked from my job if I was found guilty of making a racist remark/comment to someone in my work place (And as Evra & Suarez are playing under the F.A / Fifa, they are both in the same workplace).
As a supporter of Liverpool I'd be disappointed to lose such a good player but at the end of the day, IF, found guilty, it's only his own fault we'll just have to pick ourselves up and move on as we always do.
G-Force
G-Force, behave. While I wouldn't condone his actions if true a lengthy ban and fine would be enough besides if you dismiss him we would lose out on a transfer fee {Ed002's Note - That is not correct about the transfer fee.}
G FORCE
were are you from? space i presume! dismiss suarez for words? no wonder the country is in the mess its in now, if you were a traveller you would be really happy they have no rights at all, bob paisleys skids
G FORCE we should all back Suarez 100 percent whatever happens i know i will. If found guilty everybody deserves a second chance nobody is perfect. i do believe he is innocent.
mighty reds
17 Nov 2011 11:26:26
I have read in espn that Dani pechaco send a sms to his dear friend Thiago of barca that enjoy your match negrato. and they also said its quit common pet name i spanish language. the writer even say if you look at spanish point of view then u cant punish anyone for that.
This is england, we don't speak spanish, evra is french, not english NOR spanish, as were in england communication is in english, evra is a high profile name, champions league winner?, french international with his name on his shirt, the word negrato is not welcome in this country, and those looking for reasons as to why its ok and acceptable are just as bad, IF it were another team calling the name to a liverpool player the comments on here would be so much different!
Evra is fluent in both English and Spanish.
But suarez been grow up in uruguay he use to with this language. and Evra been call by this name in his won team friend. don't say suarez is his enimy. he just a oposition player and can be friend too.
Who said the word negrato is not welcome here? you? the english language is full of words from most countries in the world, and when 9 out of 10 british people are abroad they speak english why cant suarez speak Spanish if he decides to, i am sick to death of political correctness gone mad, it is a mans game for men professional men should be able to ignore bating and winding up, whats next? a black players league and a white players league because of people like evra, there are millions of black people who would distance themselves from evra and his childish outbursts,bob paisleys skids
So if Joe Cole said "alright mucker" to one of his teammates at Lille and the player took offence because he hadn't heard the term before, Joe Cole would be guilty of abusing said player? No, just because you speak English doesn't mean that everyone in the UK should use it as their first language. If whatever term Suarez may have used is used commonly and without offensive connotations where he comes from, i think it would be very harsh to brand him a racist for using it in this country. If, however, he knew what he was doing and did it to upset Evra, then he's guilty and should be punished.
Rugby Parker
Hang on a minute, I thought all you scousers said that Evra was lying and that bugs bunny never said a word about him!!?? Now all of a sudden he only said a jokey name and it was a misunderstanding..................
Seems they have fallen on their own words!! as futre the joe cole comment, well thats just stupidity! dear oh dear the nose has been cut off to spite the face.
17 Nov 2011 11:13:18
Listen, we don't live in a Spanish speaking country were you might get away with certain language. We live in the UK where racial abuse is against the law. We live in a civilized society ( I use the term loosely). So if Suarez is found guilty then he has to be punished. If he wants to learn from his mistake then all well & good. If he doesn't then sell him to an Italian, Spanish or even a Russian club were you can still get away with that sort of lingo.
Anyway, I don't want Liverpool to be like Utd & defend players & any cost with no morals. Cantona idolised for assaulting a fan, Rio being made out that he has just a bad memory, are we to beleive that Bosnich starting using drugs after he left Utd or was he sold before getting caught on their own patch, same goes for Stam & his performance enhancing drugs.
Then you have Rooney offering fights on social networks, Terry shagging his team mates wife, Gerrard fighting DJs, Rooney shagging grannies ( why does his name always crop up), numerour players up on rape/ sexual assault charges, drink driving & wrecking people/ family lives! The list is endless.
Some people might say that this is just normal society, but these players are in the public eye! Idolised by kids as young as 3, earning £100/200,000 a week. Surely they should have some responsibility? Surely the clubs have some responsibilty to the fans & public to come down hard on these players.
I've got kids, one who is Liverpool nuts but I don't encourage him to worship modern day players. Its all about the club for me, the crest on the front, maybe players like Daglish & Hansen. How any adult tell a kid about Cantona, Rooney, Gerrard, Terry knowing how they behave?
Love football! Not footballers!
The Irish Rover
There's some truth in that Irish Rover. There has been several cases in the press recently about Brits being prosecuted for contravening the law in Dubai, getting drunk, having sex on the beach at night (not the cocktail !).
But we're talking F.A. rules here, not a criminal prosecution. As I posted below, he could get dome for improper conduct as a minimum.
The Real KB
17 Nov 2011 10:48:00
Reds / Eds
I've had a look at the F.A. Handbook for 2011/12.
This is what I've come up :
Part E Conduct
General Behaviour
3. (1) A player shall at all times act in the best interests of the game & shall act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or combination of violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour.
(2) In the event of any breach of Rule E 3 (1) including a reference to any one or more of a person's ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual orientation or disability, a Regulatory Commission shall consider the imposition of an increased sanction, taking into account the following ;
For a first offence, a sanction that is double that which the Regulatory Commission would have applied had the aggravating factor not been present.
It then adds that the Regulatory Commission has discretion to impose a greater sanction.
So, it looks like Luis has been charged under E 3 (1) and (2). If found guilty, he'd face a fine. Unless the Commission thought it serious enough and they could increase the fine, or consider something more severe (eg ban).
These two paragraphs (1) and (2) are cover-alls. "A player shall at all times..".
Yeah, right. We all watch 22 x angels on the pitch every game, don't we ?
I feel that they may ping Luis with likely E 3 (1) - a fine - and maybe (2), depending on what was said, how many times, in what context. In this case, it would probably be a larger fine and likely ban too.
Now, interestingly, there is a completely separate rule for racism :
E 4. Discrimination
A player shall not carry out any act of discrimination by reason of ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual orientation or disability.
I am not aware that Luis has been charged with E 4, just the former two.
So, make of that what you will.
I think they'll ping him though, on one count at least.
Sorry about the very long post, but this is the hottest topic for a while.
The Real KB
Eds,
regarding this 'first offence' thing ; is Suarez' record in Holland taken into account here ? Or is it just with the English F.A. ?
The Real KB {Ed001's Note - that is a very good question, one I have to admit I am not sure of the answer to. I will see if I can find out.}
17 Nov 2011 10:44:55
i really don't think Suarez is a racist that's a very strong word to label anyone ,how good is his english and how good is Evras Spanish,people are calling for luis head IF found guilty
should Evra be sacked if Suarez is found innocent.
K-H
Agreed with u. and when u punish someone u must remmember that what he know and where he grow up. he dont know it can be big issue as suarez say he know that evras won friend call him that nick.
17 Nov 2011 09:38:30
HI ED,
may be a touch sensitive but I was wondering if you have any info on the Saurez - Evra debacle. I know Luis
denies everything, it just might be a cultural thing, the expressions he used have you heard anything and do you think Blaters latest cock up and the FA's strong condemnation of what he said will have any bearing on the findings.
Cheers
Cl {Ed001's Note - there is no available info being released and I don't want to get into speculation, I will leave that to the gutter press. As for Blatter, I have no idea what effect his words would have, but I can't see anyone being affected by a joke like him.}
17 Nov 2011 09:17:40
Please eds can u explain it to me why is the suarez situation differnt from the terry one everyone has seen what terry has said and there is little or known proof that suarez actually said anything or something lost in translation is it because he's england captain or something because the proof is there for everyone to see if he doesn't get charged when clearly guilty there is Hippocrates in high places thanks ed
ACMD RED {Ed001's Note - I have no idea what the differences between the two cases are, except that Terry is in the middle of a police investigation and so the FA are unable to act until that is concluded.}
17 Nov 2011 09:02:57
looks like Adam Johnson has signed a new contract with MAN CITY so that puts any rumours of him coming to us to bed ladies and gents!! gutted would of been phenominal in a mighty reds shirt
Thank God, average magician, dissappears in and out of games, if he starts!
JayB
Atleast he is better than wat we have.
17 Nov 2011 08:57:40
I personally feel that Suarez is being held accountable for using a term in Uruguyan that means something different in his home country. If that is the case the FA has got this very wrong, but Luis will still pay. Again Liverpool come out the wrong side of the FA.
17 Nov 2011 08:49:26
Do you think the Chelsea fans will boo Suarez on Sunday?
Who cares?
17 Nov 2011 08:46:40
Everton v wolves this weekend
Relegation 6 pointer?
Chris in Tamworth
You're on the wrong topic, Chris there lad.
Lol.
Who gives a flying about this game !
What do you make of all this Evra carry on ?
The Real KB
Real KB, I don't care about the game either but I just thought I'd crack a funny. As for the main topic of the day I haven't drawn any conclusions yet as I feel I need to hear some more facts. It's not like the Terry case which I saw on you tube and was positive of what I saw immediately. If pushed, at the moment, I am standing square behind Luis
Chris in Tamworth
Wise man !
The Real KB
17 Nov 2011 08:46:03
But Ed there could be more evidence that we do not know about? What if a player heard something or one of the many microphones picked something up?
{Ed001's Note - it is perfectly possible, we will only find out about it at the hearing, though I would have expected the FA to allow Liverpool to view any evidence such as that. Liverpool certainly have no knowledge of any such evidence.}
______________________________________________________________________
Hi Ed,
If there is no new evidence that Liverpool are aware of, have the FA charged Suarez based on his and Evra's statements? If so, can we assume that Suarez has admitted saying something to Evra, that he maybe feels is inoffensive, but that the FA feel can be construed as being racist or insulting?
I know that everyone seems to be jumping to conclusions that Suarez is guilty because he has been charged, but Suarez has from the beginning maintained his innocence and the club maintain he is innocent. I am just wondering whether this is more a misunderstanding and that Suarez has been either very naive or very stupid.
If however, Suarez is categorically found guilty of using racist language towards Suarez then he deserves a long ban and his future at the club will be in huge doubt, especially after the club and Kenny have given him their full backing.
JRG {Ed001's Note - Suarez is being charged because the FA have no choice, they are in the middle of an anti-racism push and Evra has stuck to his guns. They have to at least hold a hearing. Anything else is pure speculation.}
17 Nov 2011 08:08:23
We really need to support Louis Suarez unless proven guilty.
I would suggest that if he has said something to Evra, then it is probably along the lines of negrito hermoso.
This phrase is used for friends specifically around the the lower South America region like Argentina or Uruguay.
Negrito Hermoso means literally "my beautiful little black (person)".
In the Spanish-speaking world, it is not generally considered rude to address people by some physical feature of theirs; in fact, it is very common:
Maybe it is a misunderstanding of cultures?
Suarez has shown his commitment to Liverpool Fc, so all true REDS now need to support the little man through this rough time.
17 Nov 2011 08:05:27
Looks like i got slaugtered for one of my posts about backing Suarez and if found Guilty. Didnt United back Cantona after his ban which is no worse than racism. If Suarez is found Guilty then serves his ban then comes back whats the problem after he as served for his crime. Everybody deserves a second chance in life But as i said i believe he is innocent.
Fans in different countries racially abuse people all the time and footballing authorities turn a blind eye and may give a fine. I also said i dont believe in racism. I also believe that there is a lot of double standards on this page. People make mistakes they do there crime and get on with it. So guys lets get over it.
The club is backing the player and i hope they do whatever the outcome.
Mighty reds
17 Nov 2011 08:02:33
It was in the press the other day that what Suarez called Evra was Negrito.
The term "Negrito" is the Spanish diminutive of "little black person", referring to their small stature.
Diminutives are often used for the purpose of expressing affection.
Apparantly, Suarez said that this term is used a lot from region he is from.
We all have our sayings, ways of expressing ourselves and terminology from how we are brought up, the country we live in and what we are taught.
Think of it like that bank advert where it's said that if you show the soles of your feet you are being rude, or if you offer to shake someones hand with your right hand you are offending that person as that is the bum wiping hand in that country etc etc.
Not condoning anything, just saying that he could have used a term or acted in a way that is accepted where he is from but is offensive over here.
When I was in Thailand I pointed at the sign my driver was holding at the airport as I spotted my name, little did I know I had completely offended him as you are not to point at people there.
17 Nov 2011 07:39:02
Morning eds an fellow reds, I don't know bout you lads but im abit worried that the FA are going to try an make an example of Suarez after that person Sepp Blatters comments. Even if they can't find enough evidence I think they will throw the book at him just to make a point the don't agree with Blatters comments. If sufficient evidence is found on Suarez then obviously he should have a pretty heffty ban and what ever else is deemed fair for racial abuse. Hope everything in my post is worded correctly as I know this is a sensitive subject an don't want to offend.
The swan
I dont give a damn if he gets a hefty fine. He shudnt be banned, or we r screwed big time. No world class player in our squad apart frm him, n dat includes gerrard.
Indian Buzzer
17 Nov 2011 07:36:24
Well that's your season spiraling into a relegation battle then. No Suarez and Gerrard for a month, that means no goals and no wins for a month. fa will ban Suarez for 6 games min. Im a Madrid fan but also enjoy watching Liverpool. As a native of Spain originally we are used to the issues regarding race that you are enduring and if Luis could see the comments that damp have put on here sure that he would leave regardless of outcome.
Innocent til proven guilty, he has been charged not found yet. I think you should have waited before all your comments, sad that you were so quick to get on his back. I thought Liverpool supporters and players never walked alone, seems Suarez will.
raul
Don't put all your LFC fans in one basket pal. I'm yet to read one post that has completely condemned Luiz, some have posted how they would feel IF found guilty but most have shown nothing but support!
Stop getting on your high and mighty, I (we) support Luiz!
Myk
MYK
i agree i totally support luis suarez and every other liverpool f c player and always will, we must stick together always, bob paisleys skids
17 Nov 2011 07:30:34
Just a quick one before I go to work. What is a racist? and what is racism? Is saying one thing that might or might not have been construed as a comment towards somebody's ethenticity being a racist? Not in my book. Should somebody be portrayed as a racist and have people want them sacked from their job for this outburst? Not in my book. Maybe I'm too old school, but political correctness has gone to a carzy new level.
I'm not saying it would be right to say these things, or saying that just because somebody has an exceptional talent they should be given special dispensation, but people are all too quick to brand the racism card. In this day and age that is a bad tag to carry about. Circumstance makes us do the odd stupid thing but at the same time people play on it.
Thats all I have to say.
Scott78.
17 Nov 2011 07:13:27
we should all back luis but if he is found guilty then as much as i love him there is no place for that at liverpool fc.
if this was lucas or big andy in this situation then people would be calling for there head all ready.
i dont think it was ment the way it has come accross same as the john terry incident but if found guilty its not good for either player or there respective clubs.
i dont know the answer but maybe king kenny does......
matty b
17 Nov 2011 06:30:19
Hi Ed001,
I find some of the comments on here astonishing....Really reflects our current state on society. As I said before talking about such a serious issue as racism, and based on speculation is just a no. Some of the people on this site really are going to have to take a good look at themselves when the outcome is revealed, either way.
Saying this, if Suarez is found guilty I echo your view, and vice versa for Evra. Just thought I would also mention, hopefully something good can come out of this and see the end of that corrupt b*****d Blatter, and maybe a much tougher stance then the toothless tiger that is the 'kick racism out of football' campaign.
Jatt YNWA {Ed001's Note - I doubt we will be so lucky as to see the back of Blatter, unfortunately.}
17 Nov 2011 03:04:23
IF worst comes to worst and Suarez's ban lasts through till Jan / Feb it seems logical the club will move for a striker in January.
But my question is will we sign someone with top class ability i.e. Villa, Tevez, or someone of that calibre and really break the bank.
Or will we sign more of a stop-gap player just to fill the void for the time being with someone more or less average?
Cheers Eds. {Ed001's Note - who knows, the lad hasn't even had his hearing yet.}
17 Nov 2011 03:15:55
Regarding the Suarez allegations, I think that if guilty he should at least face a lengthy ban. He's partly a victim of the hoodoo over racism against skin colour - United fans can chant about Park eating dogs and it gets laughed about; I'm sure players insult each other's ethnicity a number of times in every game. And I believe there is a big difference between saying something like "eff off you black tw*t" and making abusive comments based on his racial background (eg/ "you smell BECAUSE you're black"). I'd like to see a clear ruling on the case, but I doubt we'll get it and people will continue to speculate about what was/wasn't said. But racism has no place in football and if found guilty I for one hope he faces a long spell on the sidelines
Red Ollie
Good point made, im sure bellers has been called a welsh t**t loads of times or maybe geln johnson being called a fat bas***d but you dont see them crying ans moaning.....
matty b
So saying that some eats dogs in their own country is racist? i think your clutching at straws..
Is this guy serious??
Since when is callin someone a black t**t acceptable? Why does anyone have to say u white this or u black that.. Come talk sense man
Drawback to that ollie is its wishy washy too many people are thick and couldn't differenciate between your 2 examples plus ofc that means What Terry said could be swept under the carpet, problem is UK at this is time is so damned politically correct everything is an afront over a wide spectrum.
We must be seen to have the correct amount of zeal. lol
Pardoe
17 Nov 2011 01:48:42
Wow this is a first for me but I do agree with Blair Mayne over the allegations and he is getting stick for it.
I actually applaud him for his stance I am not so sure I could do it with aUtd player
I still think Suarez will be found not guilty or no proof whatever but if guilty he needs booting out of English football same as Terry who appears deeper in the doo doo
Fact is we either set out to kick out racism or not let's see how the FA get out of these two predicaments
Pardoe
Right, there is evidence for terry saying what he said to Ferdinand as it was seen and we all have seen the footage on the tv cams
There is no evidence for Suarez saying anything and he gets charged because it supposedly happened vs man utd
Nothing will happen to terry as he is England captain
I think JT is in a lot worse position than Suarez personally
Pardoe
17 Nov 2011 01:21:58
Hey ed I have just been reading about the under 19 team and read a few comments about suso not developing as well as was first hoped. I personally thought he was coming on well so have I missed something or is suso showing signs that he is going down the pacheco road by not pushing on and trying to make the grade?
N87 YNWA {Ed001's Note - he is working well in training as far as I am aware, he is being put into central midfield to improve certain aspects of his play. He is just not adapting as well as was hoped, so far anyway. But he is still very young, a few years ago Liverpool very rarely had first team players under the age of 23, he still has time on his side. People just expect too much too soon these days.}
17 Nov 2011 00:32:44
Why doesn't Suarez apologise to Evra, and Evra accepts?
Things are said in the heat of battle which are meant to have the most disturbing affect on the opposition (which I believe what was meant)
We've all been called these hurtful names in anger, it's when they are pesistant that things need to be addressed.
Before anyone starts, I am from a mixed race family and know when people are constantly racist and when they are trying to wind me up.
What needed to be stopped was 50 thousand fans singing "You blxxk basxxrd" and it has.
All we need to do now is jeer when some of our own so called supporters sing Munich songs and the crew down the East lancs wanna do the same when some of them sing Hillsborough songs. it'll happen, it just takes time and the right people to do the right things.
Big Bill
I think the allegations and comments by some writers in the media and on SSN are pathetic over the top PC BS. Racism in English top flight may have existed years ago but today every squad is multi national. A very doubt a culture of racism does exist or could ever develop in football squads anymore. There are two ways to see it, Luis was trying to wind Evra up or he was using a term he thought was acceptable. Either way to think Suarez is a racist is quite laughable and far OTT. But as ever, he will be used as a tool by the FA to show how PC they are, by the media to sell a story and by writers and bloggers to make them feel important by making profound statements. And don't say I've missed the point because you lot out there already have. Evra had a problem and he should have spoken to Suarez and sorted his problem out man to man. If anything Evra's actions will now fuel racism arguments throughout football and the whole thing could now snowball in to something very messy and completely unnecessary.
16 Nov 2011 23:51:13
Yes i totally back Suarez whatever the outcome and i really believe he is innocent. He as given us so much joy and put a smile on our face we should back him whatever the outcome.
So if the case does go against you are telling me that people say things that they dont mean now and then is a load of tosh. We all say stuff in the heat of the moment as what blatter said. We should judge him on his footballing skill which i love to see.
I am not saying racism is right but nobody is perfect and a lot of people have made money out of it in life. I believe you have done nothing wrong Luis and in my eyes will always be a hero whatever the outcome.
Mighty
This post should be deleted immediately! {Ed001's Note - personally I just think it shows how sad and pathetic some people are, they will endorse racism so long as the player is good enough.}
Mighty - So, IF Suarez is found guilty of racially abusing Evra, he's still a hero in your eyes? Or have I misinterpreted what you're saying?
Matthew...
ED001
Far enough Ed, I take your point {Ed001's Note - cheers, I did think long and hard about the best way to deal with it, it is a tough decision!}
From what ive heard luis called evra " little black man" which is how certain players refered to each other at ajax, as far as he was concerened it was banter not racism but you can understand why evra who has accused two other players of racism both who were found not guilty would kick up a fuss, i honestly dont think luis intended there to be any malice in his comments but i feel it was more a case of immaturity not racism, anyway thats my opinion on it , if it turns out that he fully intended his remarks to be of a racist nature then he should be punished accordingly but like i say i just dont think that was the case so innocent until proven otherwise for me folks.
JFT96.
TOMMY C {Ed001's Note - will you please stop with this nonsense about Evra, he has not accused two other players of racism. Finnan was accused by a deaf fan watching on TV and claimed to have lip read a racist insult. Evra, when asked by the police, stated quite clearly that he had heard no such comment from Finnan and the case was dropped. The other incident you are referring to was a member of the Chelsea ground staff that Mickey Phelan accused of making a racist comment regarding Evra. Evra again stated that he had heard no racist comments from the staff concerned.}
In Uruguay Negro , negrito is not racist in some cases a term of endearment so if that's what he said it was meant to put him off. It's not like he burns crosses on his front yard
Suarez said this word to evra about 10 times, i doubt he said it in a friendly manner..
16 Nov 2011 23:50:52
If anyone has any doubt that ignorance isn't prevalent in football and in society, you only have to look at posts from United and Liverpool supporters regarding the Evra/Suarez alledged incident. You have all been eager to put your biased slant on the issue (including the John Terry incident) without being privy to any complete facts.
Your respective clubs or personal likes or dislikes for individuals players clearly comes before justice either way for many of you. For all those who have supported their man, or hated Terry, Suarez or Evra, you should take a good hard look at yourselves! This is bigger than Liverpool FC or Chelsea FC, this is what is acceptable in society.
Your guilty or innocent declarations are easily offered, without consequence, but are born out of ignorance.
The majority of posts on this subject are based on club allegiance, not what is right and wrong, and you don't know how dangerous that is in a wider context.
Facts: the FA believe they have evidence that there is a case to be answered, and Mr Suarez has the opportunity to answer the allegation..that is it for now!
Reading the posts on this site, all seem to be agreement in the condemnation of racism and some even suggesting Suarez has no place at the club if proved guilty. I'd walk out of Anfield and never go back if I ever heard players or fans racially abusing other players. I do have serious doubts that there is any ignorance at Liverpool football club. You seem to me to be the one putting forward biased views without being privy to any complete facts.
Fact: In England, Mr Suarez is innocent until proven otherwise.
If you would walk out of anfield because of that you are not a supporter.There is racial abuse all the time in games and not just at black players makes me sick.
DCG