31 Aug 2016 21:56:26
Ed002 - I note your not a great fan of Klopp. Whilst I've noted some glaring flaws in the way he sets us out and have disagreed with some of his substitutions, I've held back from passing judgement due to mixed feelings. However, with the exception of Mane, this transfer window, in my opinion, has been completely shambolic. A centre half in Matip who can't head the ball, an attacking midfielder who wasn't needed after bringing in Gruic yet the left back debacle and holding midfield positions completely over looked. The insult however is Klopps declaration that one bad game doesn't make Moreno a bad player and that the left back position isn't an issue.

Jurgen:- "how many points did Moreno cost us last season ball watching and if there isn't an issue with left back, why the Chilwell pursuit? ". I'm not sure whether this is fundamentally an FSG issue in not backing the manager with Klopp having no option but to put media spin on a dire situation because of their obsession with money ball and hedging to ensure gilt edged punts, (the £7 mill econometric principle including additional decision making variables as I highlighted at the start of their tenure, 'Alberto' for example to illustrate the point) or just a defensive blind spot in Klopps football philosophy. It strikes me that if project Klopp goes wrong (and it will, we'll finish 7th-8th this season, losing to the same teams for the same reasons), FSG will find it difficult to recruit another manager if still in ownership, as who the hell would want to come and manage under such a shower for owners.

Any chance of elaborating as to why Klopp annoys you Ed002?

{Ed002's Note - It is nothing to do with liking him or not Ozone, it is to do with honesty about where he is and where he is going. Klopp is an infectious manager that had some success a few years ago. He is not the messiah everbody thinks and has done pretty poorly in terms of results (a win percentage midway between Hodgson and Rodgers to date) and in terms of realtionships with the playing staff - a decent number pushed aside. I have no objection to him as a person - he is OK. He has flaws I have explained before and I don't see him as taking the club forward too far. The econometric is one of convenience and there is no driving force from the management. The owners have taken some advice over the summer and are probably back to considering the 2017 options as I know the guy who concluded by saying no League win this year - largely naivety on behalf of FSG. Realistically, he has done the same as Rodgers with the buys - screwed the next guy in charge. He has a penchant for opening his mouth and digging a hole. The club have had to deal with a couple of embarrassing issues related to him. There were better choices for the long term. Buy hey.

And it is good to see you back, I have been stuck with Waro as the only real fan for months now.}

1.) 31 Aug 2016
31 Aug 2016 22:59:55
Thanks for the reply Ed002 - I have to say my instincts are very much akin with your summary above. It's been eating away at me feeling negative yet again about an LFC manager but the facts can't be circumnavigated. I can see this season being a complete wash out and feel that Klopps starting to believe his own hype.

{Ed002's Note - I hope not Ozone but I am fearful of a finish just outside of the European places and a League Cup final loss type finish. I am not convinced he can make significant changes involving his need to adapt but there was a while that he had the team performing very well. It is a balance that does not need issues with players so there needs work there still. Fill it full of youngsters and it will hit the buffers. We would welcome more of your input.}

2.) 31 Aug 2016
31 Aug 2016 23:25:03
Cheers Ed002 - we seem to have 20 minute spells in games where we either finish teams off or we don't capitalise and then pay the price because of fundamental flaws. Ball watching full backs, no defensive cohesion, no defensive protection (neither can or hendo are holding mids), poor goalkeeper, square pegs round holes sketch that has hindered us for years. For me, the defence is worse than ever - I don't think we won a defensive set piece on Saturday, Utd will likely bag at least 3 against us solely from set pieces. I can see a few 3-4 nil thrashings from the usual bunch this season.

{Ed002's Note - A good point Ozone, and that is maybe the lesson he has to learn. Get on top and then adjust. I don't see bad players, I see players running and running who are asked to do so. Other sides don't run 12km per player per game because the players get the ball to do that. I agree that the defence has not been fixed at all. The incoming players are mid range. The left back issue was an easy fix but the club screwed around. I am far from convinvced about Clyne. There are some great forwards but Firmino could be better used. Coutinho can split a defence but is not being used that way. I am yet to get a feeling how the season will pan out but I don't see a championship. It would be useful if Waro could give his opinion on this.}

3.) 31 Aug 2016
31 Aug 2016 23:27:19
Agree with Ed002 on Klopp, it's like closet atheists, you want to believe. But deep down u know . 😉.

4.) 31 Aug 2016
31 Aug 2016 23:46:07
Ozone has nailed it for the above reasons I called 6th at best this season. From the opening games I've seen no progression our flaws are systemic off the field as much as on.

{Ed002's Note - There will be a balance - part of the problem is folks publishing tables before 8 or 9 games have been played.}

5.) 01 Sep 2016
01 Sep 2016 00:09:06
Opinions on forums have no bearing on the the problems/ quality of Liverpool FC first team squad.

6.) 01 Sep 2016
01 Sep 2016 00:11:12
Ah well welcome back Ozone. I see that your self-imposed exile from the site has certainly not changed your mood at all! I think you will find that your buddy Waro is way more positive about the season than you, but regardless, I agree with some of the points, particularly about the defending AND the defenders.

It seems to me that Klopp doesn't rate defending as an important part of the game, hence him being happy with 3 senior CBs, 1 specialist LB and RB apiece. To him, defending more than the defenders seem to be the major driving factor; and with the way he wants LFC to play, the defending starts from the front (and hence the preference for Firmino over others in certain type of games) .

Ed002 raises an excellent point about the use of Coutinho; I was rather puzzled the assists had dried up for Coutinho and I thought it was more down the player deciding he wants to shoot more often than pass (perhaps he sees himself as one to take the responsibility? ), but I think more often than not, Firmino being played up top means the chances of threading in through balls etc will be limited, as that is not Firmino's game to run in behind the defence.

As for the recruits, I think it is far to early to write off Matip and Karius, who are certainly improvements over Skrtel and Bogdan. I am circumspect as to how they adapt to the PL (and this will be key especially in the first few matches they play), but I suspect they will get the chances to show what they can offer. I think both of them are decent players, but not outstanding as many here hope. Manninger is a stop gap and is only here because of the loan-rule changes; Grujic will have to work on the defensive side of his game, but looks promising, and again is too early to judge. Mane will be fine, which leaves Wijnaldum who is indeed the odd purchase of the window, but Klopp did want Zielinski, which was again very odd, but I would say Wijnaldum is a definite improvement on Zielinski.

Overall, I think Klopp has a very clear idea on how he wants his teams to play, and I would wait a little longer to see how we play before passing opinion on Klopp.

7.) 01 Sep 2016
01 Sep 2016 12:40:59
hi everybody

I would just want your view Edd1 on how u would use Firminho and Coutinho?

{Ed001's Note - I would move them both back a spot. Firmino would play behind Origi/Sturridge/Ings (depending on the game fitness etc) and Coutinho would be in midfield for me. I know people talk about Couts lacking physical presence, but I remember a number of games when he had a deeper role and he was throwing himself into tackles etc and really stood out.}

8.) 01 Sep 2016
01 Sep 2016 00:48:16
Yes this is what frustrates me Ed002 the fact we're capable of getting on top but then he doesn't adjust to suit. I rate Stewart, I would like to see a midfield of Stewart in front of the defence, Gruic or Can pushing on, mane out right, Firmino left, cout in the hole with Origi up top. I recall the Bournemouth game last season at their place where he played Stewart holding. Ironically that day we dominated but the team was selected by default through injuries. On another day he may have opted for another formation and exposed us.

{Ed002's Note - I suspect there will be many others who support your position Ozone.}

9.) 01 Sep 2016
01 Sep 2016 00:52:18
I have been saying this since the transfer window opened and seen our incomings, what ozone has said is not new.

I have also been consistent with seeing us no better than a top six finish but i have been shot to pieces. I guess i'm not real enough of a fan eh.

10.) 01 Sep 2016
01 Sep 2016 12:45:58
Hi everyone

I just want your view on how best to use Firminho and Coutinho ED002?

{Ed002's Note - Firminho played effectively on the left of midfield or attack in Germany - there are not extra goals in him playing him centrally with Klopp is keen on. Coutinho works well as a central attacking midfield player.}