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09 Jun 2022 20:25:37
Ed001, you seen a lot of Nunez? Can you tell me anything about him and how you feel about the prospect of him playing for us?
It's a lot of money so I guess it's somewhat high risk for us, but I trust the club and Klopp but just wanted to get your thoughts.
{Ed001's Note - not a lot, he looked a handful but not that impressive. I certainly wouldn't be considering him from what I saw.}
1.) 09 Jun 2022 21:06:20
I haven’t seen enough either and trust your better judgment but I would hope the Klopp and the recruitment team have seen what we maybe haven’t. It seems a big punt on someone who is raw at best and who maybe wouldn’t fit in immediately to the current system. If it happens I see him as near as we’ve had since Torres who didn’t work out too bad until ….
2.) 09 Jun 2022 21:36:36
I think he looked good against us, but the sample set is small, so it doesn't say much.
If we do get him, the first thing Klopp and Co need to do is train him to fall down less.
3.) 09 Jun 2022 21:43:04
I totally disagree with Ed1 here. I think he gave us more problems than any other player I’ve seen this season.
When you think Martinez of Inter is highly regarded and he was virtually anonymous for 2 games other than a long range goal that he only hit because he couldn’t get past our defence.
I thought he looked absolutely top drawer in a fairly average Benfica team. If it happens I think he’ll be immense with better players around him.
4.) 09 Jun 2022 21:51:45
I was about to ask exactly this. I havnt seen him play other than the highlight reels but from them I don’t have a great feeling about this, especially not at the figures being bandied about. Then again I didn’t have a great feeling about Alisson either but I was wrong on another level there. Hopefully Nunez is another one who just makes it look easy so he never really looks that impressive.
5.) 09 Jun 2022 21:59:57
If we are actually in for him at this price you can bet your bottom dollar Klopp and his team have done the research and they’re sure. Especially with Mane and possibly Salah going out the door in the next 12 months.
We can’t really afford to get this wrong because we could be losing 50 goals a season regardless of how wasteful we might think they are.
6.) 09 Jun 2022 22:11:12
I can't remember which leg it was in but there was one where it felt he could score 3-4 against us. Fortunately for us he chose to fall over rather than stay on his feet.
I have only seen him in those games but I feel if he can cut the antics out there is some player in there, and he is only young to.
7.) 09 Jun 2022 23:10:11
He put the ball in the net at Anfield 4 times 2 ruled out by VAR and one for a foul from memory and of course the other counted.
He will be a handful, would love Gnabry, and the Scottish kiddie and it has been a great window.
8.) 09 Jun 2022 23:24:25
I agree with all that was said above to be honest. He looks impressive but very raw and with not a large sample size. It seems a lot of money for what he has proven thus far. Having said that i remember thinking the same about Mane and even van Dijk so i’m going to trust that the scouting team have seen something that we can't fully understand as of yet. We’re usually very frugal and i can’t see us splashing that kind of money without a lot of planning and consideration going into it.
9.) 10 Jun 2022 00:42:17
Maybe it's me, but I also think that ManCity's buying Haaland had somewhat of an influence factor in the club's interest in Nunez. If ManCity have improved (and they have with the Haaland purchase, because he's taken up a position that was vacant with Jesus shunted out right), and with the club knowing last summer (as Ed001 has guessed) that Salah and Mane were going to give the club a hard time for extensions or renewals, the club had to try to bring someone in. I am not suggesting Nunez is or will be a mistake at all. I see the same positives and the same negatives that many others have seen, so it's far from a situation where the club is bringing in just anybody. I think it's a calculated risk that may turn out to be, once again, a very smart buy (how smart is paying a club record fee - I don't know) . Klopp and staff definitely know that Nunez is just at the beginning of his growth curve. And I guess they are taking the bet that they can improve him to reach Haaland's level (I feel that Haaland is a better experienced player though somewhat injury prone, so far) or maybe even surpass him. Timing can be everything. Look at how the timing of Salah coming in and Klopp being at the club, has changed Salah's career from very good to world class.
10.) 10 Jun 2022 00:52:07
@Anonymous, Robbo took about 6 months to bed in a was deemed a waste of money at £9m. Mane had attitude problems, VVD was lazy, Mo was a flop at Chelsea and wouldn’t hack it in the PL. Thiago was deemed injury prone by many (including me) and wouldn’t be able to go the pace. Ironically Naby was the dog’s b######ks and was going to rip the PL up.
Unless there are any professional scouts lurking on the board who have recently been asked to assess Nunez then not many of us at all will really have seen the lad.
From the list above those doing the assessing at the club seem to get it right more than they get it wrong. Let’s see what Jurgen can make of him, if the young fella does actually chose to jump onboard for next season’s ride.
11.) 10 Jun 2022 02:46:39
From what I’ve seen of Nunez he is quality. He will prosper hugely playing with the likes of Diaz, Thiago and Salah around him. If VVD found him a tough competitor to play against, imagine how he’s going to do against Mings, Stones and Maguire. I think he will be an outstanding purchase if we can get it over the line.
12.) 10 Jun 2022 07:19:15
My concern is that when he played against us he came up against a very high line which will not be the case when playing for us. Hopefully he will manage to be as effective against deeper lying defenses.
13.) 10 Jun 2022 07:35:17
Ed001, what are your reservations from what you have seen of Nunez? Thanks.
{Ed001's Note - intelligence and first touch. But I saw him up against us, so it was a big step up in quality for him from what he had been facing on a regular basis. He certainly didn't look a bad player, just didn't do enough to convince me of him. I would want to watch a lot more before I would make a decision on him myself, as you can't judge a player on just 2 appearances imo.}
14.) 10 Jun 2022 08:02:39
WDW as always love your posts and too right.
Herring that’s when we finally have a tall CF who can score with his head or can hold the ball up for the mids to get involved with attacks.
15.) 10 Jun 2022 08:57:09
Last week we said we needed a more natural forward as our 70 goal plus a season forward line miss too many chances.
Now we are saying Nunez won't suit our style of play as he’s more of a natural forward.
16.) 10 Jun 2022 09:00:49
On the contrary RedHerring. He's 6ft 2" and a strong powerful lad who's good in the air. So I feel teams might have to rethink the sitting deep approach if hopefully he was to score a few headers early in the season from the service from TAA and Robertson. Thus allowing more room for Salah etc. Always felt that was a slight weakness in our squad, fingers crossed He's that missing piece in turning some of those costly draws into wins????.
17.) 10 Jun 2022 09:04:22
Ed1 - I lose track on whether you watch games or not haha!
I’m excited about this prospective signing. Pace, finish, good in the air, can be a target, can get in behind the only thing I’m not sure about is his interplay around the box. But in general have seen enough of what he has to be confident that he has the profile to benefit from Klopp and co.
Also nice to see that we’re potentially on the winning side of some of these transfers. Remember when we’d miss out to another club or other random reasons! Hopefully we get this one over the line.
{Ed001's Note - i usually watch them later when i get time.}
18.) 10 Jun 2022 09:04:22
Ed1 - I lose track on whether you watch games or not haha!
I’m excited about this prospective signing. Pace, finish, good in the air, can be a target, can get in behind the only thing I’m not sure about is his interplay around the box. But in general have seen enough of what he has to be confident that he has the profile to benefit from Klopp and co.
Also nice to see that we’re potentially on the winning side of some of these transfers. Remember when we’d miss out to another club or other random reasons! Hopefully we get this one over the line.
{Ed001's Note - I tried to watch as many of our games as I could after the season ended.}
17 Nov 2019 17:21:23
Ed001, as a group we've discussed previously at how lost we look without Firmino in that front 3. We've previously used Salah, Origi and Mane up top but they don't play the game in the same way.
My question is do you think during the busy winter period Ox could play the role at times when Firmino needs to be rested?
He seems to have recently improved his finishing, can find a pass, has a good turn of pace and retains the ball well. I'm not as well versed in football as some though and could be mistaken but just wanted your opinion!
{Ed001's Note - no, it is not the way he plays at all.}
1.) 17 Nov 2019 17:36:50
Thanks Ed, I confess to not having enough knowledge to understand the nuances each position in our setup.
{Ed001's Note - I can see what your thinking, but I just can't see it suiting him. Needs someone who is used to holding the ball up.}
2.) 17 Nov 2019 18:18:31
We don't look lost without Firmino. We won number 6 without him. Mane is by far the main man, without Mane we would not have won the cl and we would have a lot less points over the last 12 months. When Firmino plays well we do look a better team but his good games are not frequent enough. I know goals are not what he is known for but he really does need to improve his finishing, Trent and Mane are creating numerous chances that Firmino is squadering.
When there is 10 minutes left in a tight match which players do you look to win us a game? Firmino is not near the top of the list.
List of most important players
VVD
Mane
Fabs
Allison
Salah
Robbo
Trent
Firmino.
3.) 17 Nov 2019 19:25:16
The problem is when one of the front 3 is missing, we rotate the other 2 and all the system is messed up.
Say if Firmino is missing, we should just put origi upfront. Instead we move Salah through the middle, Mane swaps sides, and Divok is left out wide looking like a lost man.
When one is missing it then feels like they're all missing.
{Ed002's Note - Once Klopp goes maybe the new coach will fix this problem for you.}
4.) 17 Nov 2019 19:26:05
"We won number 6 without him"
What are you talking about? Firmino played nearly 60 minutes in the final?
Firmino is the embodiment of this Liverpool team, he adds so much to our game that probably only Salah and VVD match ho, for influence.
It amazes me how many Liverpool fans still don't see how important he is to the way we play.
5.) 17 Nov 2019 19:41:16
Sorry Mark but pointing to one game against purs does not prove your point. Our system does not work without Firmino.
I see no need to list an order of importance. Simply our team is weaker without any of those players in our starting lineup.
6.) 17 Nov 2019 20:00:57
What about the Barcelona home game? He didn't touch the ball in the final.
Red Dawn are you trying to tell me Firmino is more important than Mane? Do me a favour. There is no comparison, Mane is a match winner and a points getter. Firmino is a good player but we have many better players.
7.) 17 Nov 2019 20:14:35
Mark, is Firmino in our best 11? If so, he is as important as any other member of our best 11.
8.) 17 Nov 2019 20:48:39
Mark sorry BUT I ain't buying your argument regarding Bobbie. Even those in the media this season have now caught up with how important and dare I say, indispensable Bobbie is and ALWAYS has been for us. Did you hear how Jose, Keane and Souness were gushing about him after the City game? I also heard from Ed01 here where he stated that Pep loves Bpobbie and wishes he had him at City cos he does all the things that Aguero and Jesus can't and won't do. Also for good measure without Bobbie, there is NO Mane or Salah cos he creates space for them to flourish due to his immense repertoire and selflessness. Even Jose and Kompany said so or are they mugs too?
You using isolated situations or games where Bobbie either did not play (both Bar ca games) or the final vs Spurs (Where he was clearly NOT fit to play at full pelt) is a sign that your argument is pretty weak on the merits, IMO. Isolated incidents are outliers. YOu have to consider Bobbie's whole body of work over time.
Oh and by the way, we NEVER won no. 6 w/ o Bobbie. Why? Had he not come off the bench with one good eye, and scored the 3rd goal vs PSG, we don't even get a chance to get out of the group vs Napoli. Bobbie IS the Klopp system n Klopp has said so many times BUT of course, you know more about his system than the man himself.
9.) 17 Nov 2019 20:54:10
fair enough Ghost. We are a great team. I just like to fight Mane's corner on this forum as at times it becomes a total Firmino love in that is OTT. Last year Firmino was poor and we had a great season.
Firmino will have a really good game soon and there will be 20 posts about how he is our most important player, the glue etc. Meanwhile Mane wins us the points gets the goals and he is hardly mentioned by posters on here.
10.) 17 Nov 2019 21:02:59
Mark no offence, but you are wrong on a biblical scale, he's the lynchpin that holds the whole tactic of Klopps together, I wouldn't want to loose any of the front three but Mane and Salah are way easier to replace than Bobby.
11.) 17 Nov 2019 21:04:16
Mark like you, I am a huge Mane fan and to me, he is the best forward in the PL right now, IMO. Even Sterling is not a patch on him regardless of how much the English media want to make him the heir-apparent to Messi. I mean, even Messi voted for Sadio for FIFA player Of the Year this season. Need I say more?
However, that does not mean Mane is not indispensable to us, the same way as Bobbie is. Mane is equally indispensable BUT in a different way. Same goes for Salah but again, in a diff. way. Both guys finish off all the ground work that Bobbie already laid, that's it. For me, why should it be an "either/ or" issue if we can have it all, man?
12.) 17 Nov 2019 21:06:10
Mane, Salah - amazing.
Bobby is the player that brings it all together.
13.) 17 Nov 2019 21:07:50
For the record I don't necessarily see Firmino as our best player, right now that title clearly belongs to Mane.
My point was Klopp's best system has Firmino a the centre of it, can we tweak the system and still win without him? Yes, but on our best day, playing OUR system Firmino is vital and I just wondered whether Ox could, under certain conditions, play the same role so we wouldn't have to change our system.
The question was never to belittle anyone else's contributions to the team and Mark, people's appreciation of Bobby doesn't mean Mane (or any of other player) is appreciated any less.
14.) 17 Nov 2019 21:15:24
Redwolf the PSG game was our first game? If we had to win Red Star away etc I am sure we would have. Bobby was at LFC before Mane he played with Courts, Lallana etc and didn't look anywhere near as effective.
I am not saying Firmino isn't important but I am saying 100% Mane is the main man and everyone of the people you mention above all say Mane is Liverpool's main man in terms of the front 3. Look at the final 2 years ago v Madrid, Salah went off, Firmino was no where (as in all our finals) and Mane was brilliant.
15.) 17 Nov 2019 21:33:58
Iron I understand your point but on this forum at times it becomes a Firmino love in even when its not deserved. I think Mane deserves more praise. As did salah when he was the main man.
Redwolf your latest post I can fully agree with, we can have it all and long may it continue. I do really admire Bobby's attitude on the pitch, it can really set the tone for the other players.
Drogie - maybe live certain things look different. Still haven't got to a game this season. The better we do the more expensive the tickets.
16.) 17 Nov 2019 22:05:24
Fully get the manè love my personal favourite player at the minute he is amazing super star on the pitch humble human being off the pitch a true gent he is one member of a great team the best player on the pitch is always the player wearing a liverpool shirt.
17.) 17 Nov 2019 22:10:40
Mark, we love Bobbie, Salah, and Mane equally, IMO but for diff. reasons. You mentioned how Bobbie was stifled after Salah went off vs Madrid BUT if you are honest, you would remember that that season, Mo was our best player by a mile even tho, Bobbie was a beast that season as well (27 goals in all comps. ) and Mane was at 20 in all comps. How many did Salah score that season? Oh yeah, 44 goals so of course our we would struggle without him. Either way, I over all our players equally for what they bring to the table BUT regarding the attack, Mane may be our best forward BUT without the Bobbie Dazzler being the glue that keeps our whole system together, Mane would not be as effective as he is and neither would Salah.
18.) 17 Nov 2019 22:36:26
the good thing is that when 1 or 2 are having bad days the other all ways steps up. But all 3 are so different and that's what makes them such a great unit. Mane works so hard up and down getting back to help Robbo out and Bobby never stops pressing from the front but Salah never stop making runs all game with his thirst for goals must be so hard work for defenders playing against them. so to pick one out is just each persons opinions, like Mars snickers or twix. Me I think Bobby would be harder to replace I mean we all ready have Salah replacement coming in the summer Mbappé.
19.) 17 Nov 2019 22:38:34
Firmino played with Couts etc. and didn’t look as effective Mark? No he didn’t because Couts, Lallana etc. don’t play the way Salah and Mane play.
A counter argument to that would be that Salah played at Chelsea, Fiorentina and Sampdoria but didn’t look anything like as effective. Mane played at Southampton but was nowhere near the player his is now.
They are a unit. Lose one and it’s not as effective. I think the point people are trying to get across to you is Bobby is almost unique in what he does for the team. There are not many players like him so he is virtually impossible to replace.
You could replace Salah or Mane with a number of pacy wingers out there and then adapt their game to our system (not easy as they are great players but possible, Sancho, Coman, Promes, Dembele, Neres, Gnabry, Sane, Sterling although not all attainable I know but I think could be successful in our system) . With Bobby it’s much more difficult because finding a player with the intelligence, skills, selflessness, engine, dedication and mindset that he has is nigh on impossible. I can’t think of one.
All three are important, great players and we could argue all day about who is better but Bobby just has a unique skill set that would be more difficult to replace.
20.) 17 Nov 2019 23:18:48
Theres no ‘main man’. We’re a team that is bigger than the sum of its parts. Why try and put one player above another?
21.) 18 Nov 2019 13:53:38
Good read that gents and To be honest this whole debate shows what a good place we are in. We are now arguing over who is our best superstar and giving valid points for each. Remember the days when we would be arguing over hpw terrible Balotelli, Lambert and Borini were as our front 3.
22.) 18 Nov 2019 14:01:36
Agreed Virgil - it’s like picking a favourite child. not very productive when all three are so awesome!
The original question is fair though, what to do if Firmino isn’t available? My own view is we don’t have anyone who can replicate him in the squad so why try?
I’d be playing Mane through the middle and Origi out on the left. He may not be the best wing ever but he’s been very productive cutting inside, and with Robbo on the overlap he doesn’t need to be. Mane through the middle also offers a threat and something different to Firmino.
Origi at CF is a good strategy mostly at the death IMO (and particularly when we’re chasing goals) as he has more presence in the box than Firmino, and isn’t required to play the playmaker role at that stage of the match.
23.) 19 Nov 2019 04:59:24
Hi ed001 am I correct in saying that Lallana would be Klopp's choice from our 7 centre mids to play the Firmino role should push come to shove? Followed by Wijnaldum and Milner in that order?
{Ed001's Note - I have no idea because he would prefer not to play a central mid there.}
29 May 2022 19:58:03
I'd love Nunez but it seems he's United bound, would be an ideal addition though.
{Ed014's Note - why would he want to go there?
31 Jan 2022 18:33:10
Sorry Ed002 I meant letting him leave on a free in the summer vs. us buying and loaning him back now but appreciate the answer none the less. Hope you're having a good day.
{Ed002's Note - If that were the case then the advantage is for Liverpool in that they would get the jump on others and Fulham would get funds. The disadvantage for Liverpool is that they are spending money on a player who they will only get when he is available as a Free Agent.}
31 Jan 2022 15:08:16
Ed002 what would be Fulham's benefit to losing him to an international club for free? Would they get any sort of compensation? Just in my mind it makes more sense to take a fee now with a loan back agreement vs. losing him for nothing to a club on the continent? (Have I missed something though? )
{Ed002's Note - If he stays and helps them get promoted is a significant benefit.}
31 Jan 2022 12:38:17
Head scratched? Who would replace him? He very really plays and we just brought in an incredibly expensive versatile forward, ok not an out and out striker but the forward line is well covered.
24 Aug 2021 10:21:27
Oh Ed002, you're a bad man.
15 Jun 2022 19:50:02
Sorry @1jj I wasn't implying I wanted to see Haaland get injured. Haaland himself though has had more frequent injuries and he is younger so definitely has the worse record, incidents like ACLs are typically just had luck whereas Haaland seems to pick up a number of muscular injuries. That is not to say the pattern will continue for either, just what it looks like to me at present.
@lfcmad agree to disagree on that one. I'm not saying he's going to be one of the best of all time but I think he's right out there at present in this cohort of strikers.
15 Jun 2022 17:45:17
Inevitably because of the fees the players will be compared, but I think it's an unfair comparison early doors because Haaland in my opinion is a generational talent and already more established so of course we should all think he will "probably" score more goals. The only question mark for me is he was starting to show signs of issues with injuries, will he stay fit for the whole season?
28 Apr 2022 16:07:40
Nice to hear that last bit Ed001, genuinely isn't for selfish reasons then she's just looking out for her partner.
14 Mar 2022 22:02:52
Thanks Ed001. I'm not sure whether this has been done, or would even be possible but my question with regards to your last point is could you incentivise via some sort of charity scheme? For example, could the club commit to giving 100k extra a week to charities of the players choice? That way the end result for that individual player is the same but it doesn't break the wage structure?
This is purely theoretical at this point, I'm under no illusions that this would happen.
{Ed001's Note - I have no idea to be honest.}
14 Mar 2022 20:45:19
Might be a question for Ed001 as he's been exposed to a lot of guys within football but is there much that you can afford with say, 400k a week vs. 250k a week? Does it have a genuine impact on quality of life or is it more of a case of "I know I can earn more elsewhere, therefore I want to"?
To a mere mortal like me, rich is rich and after that it should be more about where your friends are, where you enjoy your football most, where you'll earn the most accolades both personal and club level. Is that naive?
{Ed001's Note - it is more about the way they see themselves. Being paid more means they are more valued to the club and so they feel better about themselves. It is more important to an agent, who gets a percentage of it, so it can make a genuine difference to them. For someone like Salah or Mane, the difference could also come down to how much they have available to help others, in the same way Oezil does. He gives away something like 65% of his salary.}