Liverpool Rumours Archive February 27 2013

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27 Feb 2013 21:33:48
Not necessarily a Liverpool rumor, but do you see any of Dortmund's core player leaving in the summer, if so where? Thanks {Ed002's Note - Lewandowski certainly.}

Is he going to man u ed or can't u say thanks {Ed001's Note - nothing has been done yet, though that is one possible destination.}

27 Feb 2013 20:48:06
With man city accepting a loss on samir nasri and are willing to listen to offers around 20million euros, does Liverpool have a chance to join the race? proven quality playmaker and has EPL experience
el capitano {Ed002's Note - There is interest from elsewhere. Don't hold your breath.}

Samir had a good 6 months at Arsenal and before city bought him he'd already slipped into an average player again, city paid well over the odds for him. If cazorla can go for £12mil nasris worth 8 at best

He hasn't been the same since Gallas finally blew the lid off their little matter of mutual hatred. Seems Samir is one conniving little backstabber, would be very stupid to have him as part of a currently happy dressing room.

Someone hasn't watched Nasri since he left Arsenal

28 Feb 2013 17:00:34
nasri is a terrible player not nrree at Liverpool

How many times he's going to PSG!

intitwetrust

Top class player. Wages?

27 Feb 2013 22:45:59
Hi ed
I know your probably tired of being asked about suarez but if we receive an offer of 40mill do Liverpool have to except the offer or just let him talk to them?
Thanks {Ed002's Note - I don't know.}

Neither, Suarez does not have a £40m release clause. Liverpool will accept an offer and/or let Suarez talk to the bidding club when Liverpool decide it is the best option, there is no set price to activate this.

27 Feb 2013 20:07:22
Ed002, if Suarez does move in the summer, which in your opinion is most likely to land him?

From what I've heard here the Italian clubs can be very difficult over financial transactions, and try to set up very complex deals with staged payments over longer periods, etc.

Do Bayern have more available funds, and are they more likely to make a satisfactory offer sooner than Juve?

A bidding war would suit LFC of course, but one suspects Bayern are more likely to win such a war, and perhaps to move more decisively to get their target.
Would it be down to the personal preference of the player in such a situation, or can the club veto a lower bid somehow?

{Ed002's Note - Bayern Munich or Juventus. I don't know the details of his contract but an offer of €40M will allow him to speak to other clubs.}

Ed is this in his contract then if someone offers 40 mill in erous he can speak to them? what that in pound and isn't that a bitof a low offer? cheers ed

mike {Ed002's Note - About 35M or so pounds.}

Not disputing your knowledge, but you have contradicted yourself their, you say "you don’t know the details of his contract" but in the same sentence you say 40m euro will allow him to speak to other clubs, from what I have heard it will take more than that to allow him to. also if he nearly went in January why did he sign a contract extension? {Ed002's Note - It has been made clear by one of his representatives that tere is a clause which faciltates him being allowed to speak to other clubs.}

Jeez, we will be getting stitched up if he only goes for 35 mil pound. On the open market you would have to say he is worth between 40and 50 considering comparable transfers

So, we have basically given our most prized asset a 35m release clause? How smart!

FSG will never be allowed to show their face at anfield again if he is sold for that much!

I think a lot of fans have unrealistic expectations of the fees that players can command in the current climate.

I remember talking to a City fan about Tevez (before the famous incident where he refused to warm up), and he said he thought Tevez would fetch at least 50m if he was ever sold. Its hard to know what to say to people who have such wild ideas about a player's value.

Torres fetching 50m was only because Abramovitch had a strong personal desire to see him play for Chelsea, and he was prepared to pay 15m more than whatever Newcastle asked from us for Carroll. But that is a very unusual set of circumstances, and even a top top player is not realistically going to fetch more than 40m Euros at the moment, unless there is a major bidding war.

There will be at least two clubs vying strongly for Suarez, so we do stand a chance of a good fee, but Juve will probably want to get bogged down in intricate negotiations, whilst Bayern will probably pay cash up front from their huge summer funds. So Bayern will suit us better, and probably suit Suarez too, since they are contending for both home and European titles, and probably will be going forwards too.

Even with their major financial muscle this summer, its hard to see them paying more than 40m euros for any player in the world except Messi or Ronaldo.
Chelsea will probably pay more if it is a player Abramovich really fancies (e. g. Messi), but its hard to see any other clubs doing that, and with FFP becoming more of an issue, fees will probably become more realistic in the future.

28 Feb 2013 13:58:21
Isnt pepe guaridolas brother Surezs agent? Would that put a slight advantage to Bayen already in relation to this? Also, I think that if he does go, as the above post suggests it is unlikely to be for a torresesk amount - 30 mil is likely to be enough to take him to Germany.

Also before anyone goes bezzerk and say well if Carroll was 35 mil then Surez is easily 50 mil plus then again, read the above post. Bayen and Juve have got the cash and the longer they stay in the CL the more likely they are to have the cash in the summer.

To the noname who starterd his post with "I think a lot of fans have unrealistic expectations of the fees that players can command in the current climate. "

Top post sir!

Really gripes me when posters are unrealistically biased about achievable transfer fees. Not many players will sell for £50m any longer. Especially in the dawn of FFPR. Chelsea were clearly silly for paying that for Torres and only did so out of desperation/stupidity/being so rich. Yet countless poster's on this site refer to that transfer saying Suarez MUST fetch AT LEAST £50m! Get a grip guys just read the above post as it makes a lot of sense IMO.

HBadger

Munich ahead of juventus with Guardiola.

Nearly every transfer, including the UK, includes staged payments. This isn't championship manager.

If we sell Suarez, the deal will be concluded over 3-4 years if he goes to the continent. If we sell to a Prem club, it will be paid over 12 months {Ed002's Note - There is a lot more control over the payment of transfer fees now. The point is to avoid another Portsmouth type situation.}

27 Feb 2013 19:49:20
Ed002 I've got a funny feeling you will swerve this one but I'm going to ask anyway
In a word do you see Suarez leaving this summer? {Ed002's Note - I am not to good at doing things "in a word" Chris. I understand that he was very close to leaving to Juventus last summer and much will depend this summer on how much effort Bayern Munich, and Juventus (if they cannot get their first choice player - which seems to be unlikely) push. Right now, it is probably more likely than not.}

Ed002 rodgers doesn't seem to know about this clause as he has said before that it doesn't matter if clubs want suarez as lfc won't be selling him? also suarez has said he will definately stay even if we miss out on the CL and he has always been true to his word so the clause doesn;t matter anyway? {Ed002's Note - That resolves it tehn. Suarez will stay at Liverpool until he retires.}

Fsg will sell the club

You failed last year and you fail this year also on your prediction Ed. Seems you can't see the big picture.

So many doubting-thomas' (nonames) on this site! If you don't want to hear the man's opinon why the flip would you read his replies? Sillyness. Keep up the realistic and factual work Ed002, most of us appreciate it!

HBadger

Juventus?

27 Feb 2013 18:48:42
I find it funny seeing post saying Suarez will leave for a fee round £40million mark. If Bale is reportedly worth £70million, Suarez is easy worth £100million.

FowlerGod. {Ed002's Note - €40million not £40million.}

Why only €40million? {Ed002's Note - As opposed to what?}

Bale is better than Suarez based on the form shown over the last 2 years.

Bale better than Suarez? Are you demented?

Bale better than suarez? Are you feeling okay? Based on league only messi and ronaldo have better goals to game ratio than suarez

Suarez is worth 65 to 70 million if fsg sell him for less than 60 they will once again alienate the fans

How to you figure last season Saurez 19 goals bale 12 (Saurez also banned for 8 games) this season Saurez 26 goals bale 19-20 not 100% and last I checked this season bale has 1 or 2 assist whilst Saurez has 9 assist whilst Bale is playing for a much stronger team

Wow over the last two years Bale has not been better than Suarez sorry buts that's just wrong, this season alone Suarez has more goals and assists as well as more key passes, tackles and interceptions

I am sorry am I missing something ed? Did you say 40 million Euro?
I mean if Liverpool let him go for that there will be uproar.
Bad enough £40 mill let alone Euro {Ed002's Note - Uproar eh?}

Look guys, the Editor is probably right. How many goals did Suarez score last year? He is twice as good this year, and has added goals to his game. the new contract was signed in the summer, not last week.

Guy who said ronaldo and messi only have better goals to game, umm, van persie, falcao, ibrahimovich, jackson martinez, glenn murray? check your facts before you make ridiculous comments mate

To be honest, I don't see what the issue is. Suarez is contracted for a number of years so even if someone bid £40m or €40m and even if Suarez spoke to these other teams, we don't have to sell him? Surely the club would have final say as to whether he goes or not.

Biggy Ballz

I'm the guy that said Bale has been better than Suarez.

Bale has played primarily as a winger, not a forward. his goal to minutes ratio is only 7 minutes behind that of Suarez in the PL (remember not a striker) he's scored a lot more crucial goals that have kept Spurs in the hunt for champions league, he's also got a shot on target record of around 48% compared to Suarez 36% OPTA if you ask for the tv opta stats they'll give them to you, they almost all confirm bale has done more in his time on the pitch.

he's scored 9 of tottenhams last 12 goals? pretty much all very important game winning goals too. His free kicks are superior, better pace, younger, less wasteful. Sorry for not being a deluded fan but one with a bit of common sense.

Bale isn't playing for a stronger team, Bale is carrying a weak team!

Go work it outnate league obly (not including europe because suarez hasn't played as many games) only messi and onaldo have a better goals to games ratio (from the statt of their careers) than suarez I worked it out before and it can be found on this website by searching for it

Goals to games is only one way of looking at it. he played a fair whack of his career in eredivisie, where the goals to games ratio is always higher, that's why in betting their goal spreads are usually 2. 8- 3. 1 and the uks is 2. 5-2. 7 eredivisie games and bundesligas games for the past 10 years have averaged 3-4 goals a match the uks average 2-3

Also I highly doubt you've compiled a list of every striker under UEFA

Suarez has scored 2 more goals than Persie this year

Can't believe the number of spanners on here today! LOL. Are people really talking seriously about Suarez selling for £70-100m? Oh my days.

FowlerGod - so you are basing your valuation of Suarez on a fictitous number that's been plucked out of the air from a newspaper article regarding a totally different player? Because Bale is REPORTEDLY worth £70m (as if) you've calculated Suarez to be worth EASY £100m?

Genius. There'll be lots of disappointed scouser's come the summer unless they get a healthy dose of realism in the mean time.

HBadger

Suarez miles better than Bale

Who cares. bale has got a face like a chimp.

Its £40m

we sold torres when (at the time) on his worst form of his life (then he got worse) for £50m. no way we would let him go for £34.5m its £40m

and you look at

Bale £70m
Falcoa £50m
Suarez £34.5m?. HEeeeeell no, I don't buy it.

28 Feb 2013 20:38:38
Sorry but to the guy who says bale is better than Suarez, firstly you can't compare the two as both play totally differently. Also free kick wise, Suarez is better at them than bale. no pace?

If I had to choose out of the two, I'd choose Suarez over bale any day. Bale relies on his left foot and his speed to much and I have recently noticed that he has started copying Christiano Ronaldo's run ups to free kicks. clearly he thinks he's as good as him.

Anyway I digress, the reason why I would choose Suarez over bale because Suarez is a more complete player. Much better close quarter dribbling, can shoot and cross with both feet, scores goals and creates more goals and definitely works harder for the team than bale from what I have seen.

Bale looks good because he is playing in a team of average players. And he only looks good against the smaller clubs.

At the end of the day, Suarez is the more complete player and for that reason alone, I would choose him over bale.

Biggy Ballz

You're all missing the point. Why would how 'good' a player is be the only determinative factor in how much someone is prepared to pay for them? Of course it is a factor but what about age, position, demand, competition, financial strength of the clubs that are in for the player, likelihood of injury, mentality, likelihood of being banned for several games each season.

Suarez is miles better than Bale. Not even up for discussion. He is capable of things Bale couldn't dream of doing. When was the last time Bale lobbed the keeper from the halfway line for example. Get real.

27 Feb 2013 18:18:13
The only thing that worrys me about this Suarez saga is we always get our pants pulled down in the market, big time. Last week of window and a low fee. We as a club are hopeless in the market. Tbh a realistic price for suarez?? 45-50 Mil as Torres left for 50 surely he is worth that. But what clubs can realisticly afford that on 1 player? Not many! {Ed002's Note - Bayern Munich and Juventu are two very interested clubs. As you've been told for months.}

Saga? It ain't a saga yet mate.

Hi ed. If Suarez was too leave what fee would you think Liverpool would get. I think they will look for 60m but will get 50m {Ed002's Note - £35M or so.}

27 Feb 2013 19:27:09
We got 50 million for Torres so it's not all bad. Shame we wasted it on Carroll.

What worries me is Ian Ayre because of his horrendous inability to manage his role to a acceptable standard. I have no doubt that the person would of allowed Suarez agent to write into the contract this so called 40EURO not pounds clause. You often see Spanish clubs putting amounts on there players in order to scare teams off or highten the price pending the player wanting to leave, I imagine Suarez won't force the issue because he says he dreams of the club and the fact they stood by him he'll want to leave on amicable terms at least, and that's a BIG if he wants to leave, Ayre should of seen this attitude in the player and stamped a 70million get out clause because you know only big clubs will be interested and they all have that sort of money knocking about over a period of installments. {Ed002's Note - You don't understand how this works at all.}

Ed how come such a low fee in terms of the market for goal scores at 35mill he is a bargain as falcao is meet to cost 50mill and caviani who is over rated is 40 odd or do Liverpool value him low because we want to sell thanks {Ed002's Note - It is not what Liverpool value hme at, it is a fee that will likely be offered and will facilitate him talking to another club.}

35 million ed. Come on mate do me a favour.
I am not picking on you but you cannot honestly tell me with confidence that 35 mill is a realistic figure on what we would get?
For god sake are Liverpool really that stupid that they would accept that insulting amount {Ed002's Note - This is why it is best not to mention money.}

I see Ed you've decided not to post my retort and prefer to make me look stupid because you look cool stating that I don't understand the transfer process, well Ed if you read the reply you'll understand that to a point I know it's not a SIMPLE phonecall to a club and it entiles a lot of elements fitting, however Liverpool are my problem, Ian Ayre and the Yanks are my problem because they do not seem to understand the basics of English football business regardless of how qualified they are in the American marketplace. you only have to refer back to Werner's comments about the Andy Carroll deal "as long as we made 15million on the Torres deal we were happy to pay 35m" how embarassing from a business perspective. lol, Ayre was decent in his previous role but the step has proved to much for his understanding that you sometimes have to be cuthroat to get things done in order to bring success. we may have an abundance of youth talent and my friend who works for LFCTV, Mr Volante confirms this it is right up there for best in the prem but that's 3 years down the line realistically. I do understand the owners have a vision and they are moving in steps, wage down make us more stable but also more attrative to buyers, i'm sure Ed1 mentioned FSG were already talking to potential suitors so what's the vision. personally they got into something not realising yet again what they were about to manage, an institute. we are a laughing stock mate from PR **** up's like Jen Chang to our business dealings. sorry for rant.
Prendergel {Ed002's Note - I have no idea what you are talking about, sorry. I have no idea how well you know Ian Ayres nor these "yanks" you refer to. I also know nothing of Mr Volante - does he have an Aston Martin?}

So ed can we turn down that offer or do we have to accept it or could we ask for more and is there a way we could drive the price up if we tried to get more clubs interested such as a Russian club or psg thanks {Ed002's Note - I know nothing of the provisions of his contract aside from one of his representatives making itr clear that part of the new contract included a provision that would allow him to speak with clubs offering a certain fee.}

Come on people, why even bother telling the Ed off?. They don't know a damn thing regarding player valuations and neither do us. It is entirely up to the club!. The reason why Hulk stayed that long at Porto is due to the price Porto used to scare off clubs!. Even Real Madrid wouldn't pay 100M for Hulk let alone the 40M Zenit paid. So as one poster said, Ian Agreement should grow a brain and value Suarez at atleast 120M. To be honest, the player deserves that value as it stresses how important he is to his current team!. Whether it is unrealistic is up to the buying club, it is ou right to play Hardball over the fee as the selling club IF we are to sell anyways. Besides honestly speaking, Suarez is just too good to play for Juventus hence would preffer Munich in my opinion!!!.

27 Feb 2013 21:32:39
@Ed02 - I do understand the basics of business mate, I understand that Luis Suarez is a magnificent talent and within the marketplace comparing what players of similar talent move for then we should harden up and say to clubs anyone wants him that is the price irrespective of him wanting to leave or agents demanding a clause be written into a contract in order for him to sign it in the first place. It is business and that is the bottom line. He's young he's amazing yet troublesome at times but that won't devalue him at all. But please feel free to make me aware of the in's and out's, meaning the niggly bits. {Ed002's Note - I agree an outstanding talent. Bottom line remains he wants to keep opions open.}

God help you Ed, listing to this rubbish day in day out. Listen little boys, just because you think a player is worth X, or we should buy players for X amounts, doesn’t mean it automatically happens. Suarez had a great first season, and was in a position of power when it came to signing a contract extension; his agent rightly put in place options that gave Suarez’s the chance to talk to other teams in the future. And Liverpool aren’t doing too bad either, they paid just under 23m for him, so if they sell him for 35-40m, that makes for a good profit. Just like Torres 21m and sold for 50m. There will always be good and bad decisions Alonso 10m sold for 30m, Downing 20m might get 8-10. Carroll 35m might get 15-20m all told. Such is life, get over it, and happens to every club. Do yourselves a favor a stop reading trashy tabloid newspapers and listening to tv, or worse self-appointed twitter experts.
All the best, Poolbest11

Poolbest11

Thats not how it works. If someone has a market value of +50mil euros but you sell for 40 mil that does not make it a good decision just because you bought them for 23 mil. that's like saying selling Gareth Bale for 23 milion would be a good profit for Spurs just because they bought him for 10. Or Arsenal selling Wilshere for 10 mil would be a good profit because they didn't have to buy him. Ridiculous theory.

27 Feb 2013 14:23:18
Do the Eds think that if De Vrij and Martins Indi do move from feyenoord in summer which seems highly likely they may move together for a package sum rather than seperately?, Liverpool seems to have interest in one if not both the defenders. Thanks for all the work on the site! {Ed002's Note - I really don't know.}

27 Feb 2013 11:32:04
Eds. wondering if u could help? Heard a rumour that we have looked at Wijnaldum. is it true? {Ed002's Note - Swansea, Spurs, Lille and Benfica have shown fairly recent interest in Wijnaldum. PSV will not be keen to sell and he could be very expensive.}

27 Feb 2013 09:50:54
Greetings Guys,

Cheik M'Bengue of Toulouse is the preferred left back choice for BR.

Toulouse want 7million Euro for him1

Gibbs

27 Feb 2013 11:47:34
I've been watching a lot of League 1 (FRA) this year, and Auxerre centre back N'koulou (i think it spells like that). Would be a great partner to Agger, ok speed, strong and decent with the ball! And relatilvely young. Eds: have we shown any interest?

There is also Nigerian def midfielder/ centre back Fegor Ogude, plays for Valerenga in Norway. Are first choice on the national team, and part of the winning side in the African Championship.
Want's out, and should be available for somewhere between 2-3 million. (£) {Ed002's Note - AC Milan, Manchester City and Barcelona have made their interest in Marseille's N'Koulou known.}

The Geordies were going to sign him in January but decided against it, wonder why?

27 Feb 2013 09:48:22
Hello PPL,

I have been told today by a business collegue in Madrid that Real will bid for Suarez 'IF' he becomes available.

Madrid want him and are willing to part with Higuain in order to make the deal go through.

Di Maria has also been mentioned!

Thomas

This rumour sounds crazy, but if he wanted to go, I would take those two in exchange, and £20m. ;)

Yep, I can see Higuain and Di Maria both leaving Real for a team not in the Champions League who are losing their best player. Remember mate - Real might be willing to use Huguain or Di Maria as a makeweight, but the players have to be happy going as well - this isn't the slave trade

I hope not RM is a grave yard for talent.
Huntelaar, Snjeider, Van der vaart, modric, Robben, kaka, Mcmanaman (sp), Owen and so forth and so forth, I am not that old but these are the ones I have seen, Many who put on that jersey have not returned the same, takes leaving them to recover.

HIguain is a Liverpool fan from my knowledge

Is that good news or bad news. higuain is a good striker but suarez is up there with anyone in the world

{Ed002's Note - Real Madrid has not shown interest in Suarez at this time. They have set out their targets and are prepared to sell certain players to fund their purchases.}

^Real Madrid a graveyard for talent? What a load of old cobblers.

Zidane, Roberto Carlos, Seedorf, Figo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Sergio Ramos, Ronaldo, Laudrup, Mijatovic, Suker, Redondo, Sanchez & Schuster (I could go on and on) were all big money buys and are proof that Real Madrid IS NOT a graveyard for talent.

''Huntelaar, Snjeider, Van der vaart, modric, Robben, kaka, Mcmanaman (sp), Owen''

quite a lot of injury prone players in there why not put woodgate in as well.

for the record mcmanaman did exceptionallly well when played he and roberto arlos were at times brilliant together, he didn't always start but he was never shown badly, many real fans considered him an amazing purchase

Damon right mcmanaman was an amazing purchase. He cost £0

40m + Higuain and Di Maria

I'd settle for higuain and alonso for suarez 'IF' we were to sell him in summer to RM

27 Feb 2013 09:29:34
This summer is going to big. In many ways it will be like summer 1999 when Houllier used his first summer as sole Liverpool manager to bring in the likes of Hypia, Westerveld and others and let others like Babb leave.

How's he going to do that with about 20 mill to spend

Stupid question 1. WHO says we only get 20 to spend. 2. We will sell Carroll, Spearing maybe Downing and others. That gives us more to spend

27 Feb 2013 13:44:08
How will he do it with 20 mil, well the extra 40-50 mil from the Suarez sale will help. Like it or not it will happen and the money needs to be invested wisley this time.

LFC in the past have not invested wisely and do you think this time will be any different. $20M plus 50 Suarez plus 20 - 30 others. So will 100 M war chest who do we buy, who will want to come to an average team not in CL? Suarez huge hole to fill, look at his return this season. Want to be positive but we have just dug ourselves deeper and deeper into debt and poor investment decisions along with a string of poor managers since the 90s. I hope BR is the one but is going to be a long road forward

27 Feb 2013 09:12:37
2 center backs targeted in the summer. one to replace the legnd that is Carra and on to replace Skertl. Rodgers dosent seem to like him for some reaosn. A left back is also on the cards. the two major signigns will be a right winger and No 10, and depending whether Suarez leaves, a striker too. targets for the wing are Shaqiri (loan), Sanchez, Navas, Tello and a few others

A number 10?

you mean coutinho?

Why would any of those players come to Liverpool? I mean I'm a Red through and through but come on, none of them would be gaining anything by coming to us - they all (except maybe Shaqri) get regular games for more successful teams and are looking to take opportunities and secure spots where they already are

Worst rumour ever. This is basically a fantasy football game gone way too far!

HBadger

Skrtel is a liability. I've never really liked him and he will never be world class.

I like Suarez but I think he may be overrated. He isn't an out and out striker for me. If someone offered £50m, I would bite their hand off.

Haha, the funniest post of the lot. Navas? Jesus Navas from Seville? Haha! He will never leave that team, or that city. He is so homesick that he from time to time get seriously depressed when on national duties. Good luck in luring him to the P. L.

27 Feb 2013 08:59:03
Eds angelo ogbonna, is he a target of LFC? {Ed002's Note - No.}

27 Feb 2013 02:36:05
Liverpool are playing a Pre-season game in Melbourne against Melbourne Victory. Can't wait. Will get 80,000 people to that.
Cheers

27 Feb 2013 09:17:33
Is it confirmed yet? And do you know if they're going to Sydney?

Confirmed that they are playing at least one match in OZ

I bet Melbourne CFC will be there. he's TOTALLY obsessed with Liverpool.

MR EM

01 Mar 2013 17:19:53
Do you know 80,000 people? Holy f***. If not your going to be busy on facebook

26 Feb 2013 21:22:03
Ed002, did LFC receive a a fee as part of Emiliano Insua's transfer to Atletico? {Ed002's Note - Yes - 662,000 GBP.}

How did you find out this figure? Are you employed by the club Ed002? Or are you just having a laugh?

Aussie Geoff {Ed001's Note - the figures are released in the accounts from both clubs.}

Where are the accounts visible Ed02? I thought all those transfermarkt figures we estimates. Does someone really cross reference every deal and work out exchange rates? {Ed002's Note - The transfer fees are all lodged with UEFA. Transfermarkt buys (annually) a commercial database of information about players that has all of that data included. What they don't do is pay for the maintenance of that data so it is up to them to keep it up-to-date during the year. I don't know how much effort they put in to doing it, but certainly they estimate player values. You could perhaps check their figure for Insua against the one above - which is correct. As Ed001 says, the detailed accounts show transfer fees.}