13 Feb 2021 20:41:12
Ed001 would love your opinion on the game. I have played a decent level of football as has everyone on here I'm sure lol.

The midfield balance is off. Gini, Jones and Thiago love touches. To be fair Klopp did try to play Milner but that came to an abrupt end. Hendo is the engine, fabs sprays balls and neither take many touches and keep everything ticking over. It is very evident the team is not set up to play to thaigos strengths and asking him to do what our midfield does is square peg in round hole kinda thing. Our midfield always use to close players down enough to get the opposing heads down. That simple trick prevents anyone from picking out runs easily and makes them go back.

For me until we get hendo and fabs back in the middle we will struggle. Everything is laboured, easily defended and opposing players can easily play balls through to the space we vacate when we commit forward.

Just want to hear your take and insight to see if I'm way off the mark here


{Ed001's Note - I don't see a problem with Thiago, people are looking to blame him for no apparent reason. The issue is the deep-lying role. Without someone who can play that role properly, the defence is always under pressure. Gini and Thiago are both woeful there. That is the problem, not those in front. Thiago is perfectly adept at playing the way we do, it is what he was brought up doing at Barca. But you can't play the way we have played under Klopp without a good holding mid. Chirivella left in the summer, so all we had was Henderson and Fabinho but they have been playing defence and that is why we are too open and easy to get at.}

1.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 07:08:32
Thiago was always a Xavi or Iniesta type midfielder but people are expecting Busquests like performances from him. The issues yesterday was, in my view as an outsider, none of Gini, Milner, Thiago or Jones are DMs, and aren't great at shielding the back 4.

2.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 07:12:18
My sentiments exactly, Ed. Thiago was not brought here to do or play the holding role. He was brought in to do the creative things many in here thought we were lacking with a wall behind him. Even at Bayern, he played ahead of Alonso who was the DM and later ahead of Kimmich. He is struggling cos the midfield is out of sorts. Not rocket science.

We all knew this and his best games were vs Chelsea, at Spurs and Everton before he got injured where he played ahead of Fab with Hendo in the 8 role and Gini and Milner behind him vs Spurs where Milner was brilliant. Fundamentally, Thiago cannot play his role without a wall of Fab and Hendo behind him which was the goal of him coming here. This is not complicated to figure out.

But it seems in a bid for some on here (you know who you are) to lash out and resort to scapegoating, Thiago is the new target and they are now slamming him for no reason, saying he should never have been signed which is funny cos this forum went bonkers with delight when we signed him. The media are now doing the same thing. See MOTD last night.

3.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 08:04:07
So why was Hendo not playing there yesterday and Phillips at Cbk, some of Klopps decisions are baffling, I hope Kopp can put it right as its a lot more deep rooted as injuries as its basic errors as well, we have been poor for a year or so now, its not been an overnight thing. To be out the top four this season would be a disaster.

4.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 08:39:17
Ed01, do you think it’s time klopp changed tactics and formation to suit the players we have fit? It’s not working at the moment as disappointing as it is it’s down to the injuries we have and the contested season. However it’s frustrating to watch week in week out watching the same thing when it’s clearly not working. Now I’m not blaming klopp before anyone jumps to that conclusion.
I didn’t watch the game yesterday but not only are we giving goals away we’ve had plenty of plenty looking off form this season too, maybe a change in formation will help?

{Ed001's Note - yesterday just needed us to finish our chances and we win comfortably. That has been a problem for a while. More so than tactics or formations. }

5.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 08:41:46
Appreciate your response ED001 and hopefully we can get them out of defense and back in the midfield. I'm horrible at articulating my point and sorry if it came out as Thiago being a problem. Anyone who can't see his worth shouldn't be allowed to watch football. He's a wonderful player and just want him to be able to play to his strengths.

6.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 08:52:53
Agreed - hopefully we’ll have Fabinho back soon and then we can start him or Hendo at the base of midfield with the other accompanying Kabak/ Philips at CB. If Jota hopefully comes back soon too to strengthen the attack from the bench, then we’ll be back and firing again soon, I’m sure.

Given all the injury problems this season I think we have to be realistic that a top 4 and a decent run in the CL would be a decent season.

7.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 09:28:31
Thiago is obvious the problem otherwise Klopp would have played him from the start, to many touches, slows things down, then tries to be like a proper prem midfielder and does stupid tackles, which we all know what happened yesterday, Hendo told him off. Thiago is a great player, but not for Klopp's game, more for City's type of game, the whole world can see that, except the people on here.

8.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 09:36:29
My issue isn't that I expect him to have the industry of our other midfielders, the ones that won the Pl and CL. Thiago is slow, very slow so I understand that, although I would be deeply concerned to believe he can only play well if we have our favoured midfield (Hendo and Fabinho) . I don't see what he is bringing to our offensive part of the game at the minute, the good decent pass and that's about it. He clearly isn't the greatest tackler in the world and is quite easily beat with the drop of the shoulder. No assists, no killer passes, no thru balls. In a confident Liverpool team, firing on all cylinders he could well be different. In this team at this moment in time? He just looks like a passenger to me, who plays the odd neat pass.

9.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 09:39:56
The problems with the defence and number 6 are catastrophic for the balance of the team but the goalkeeper has cost us points in the last 2 games and that’s not really Klopps fault.

I’m not really sure Klopp can change much more in terms of personnel. There’s no replacements for the front 3 he can bring in and who else can play 6 instead of Gini now Fab is out and he wants Henderson in defence for experience.

Either we completely change the balance of the team or we carry on and play our way through this. Bad luck always comes with bad results, we will get a turn of fortune soon. The one concern for me is the high line. Exposed yesterday in the first half as Vardy should have had 1 when he was through and onside.

I think we need to drop back a little when we are up against pace but Klopp is willing to take the risk of conceding chances as he thinks the high press will give us more opportunities. He also thinks possession and control is important but is ignoring the clear cut chances we are conceding.

I’m not with him on the Leicester didn’t look like scoring for 70 mins. Those tactics just aren’t working anymore and we are not scoring enough from the few opportunities we get.

Top 4 is at risk unless he looks at the tactics and makes sure the players he has available can play those tactics effectively.

10.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 10:17:34
Leicester had the best chances in the first half, even though we controlled the game for large parts. We have a soft centre and we crumble when under pressure. Teams just hang in and defend against us knowing they will get chances especially late in the game.

11.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 10:20:02
War Machine. I agree Klopp is in a tough spot. As I said yesterday, we have 18 core players, 5 of which are long term injuries (vvd, gomez, Matip, Keita and Jota) . That leaves us 13 players, many who have also been injured before we have to use Origi, Williams etc, which has shown never to work out well. It leaves Klopp having to use players that could do with a break or use out of form players in the hope they find their mojo.
Our back up players, Origi, Shaq etc etc don't nearly produce enough consistently.

12.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 10:19:56
Thanks for the insights Eds. I'd play 11 in our own half and hit teams on the counter. We have the passing ability to play lovely long passes.

We're leaking goals ATM from silly mistakes so having a super compact defense would help alleviate some of that. Allison had a bad few games but he has saved us many a time.

Honestly though I know he never would but I wouldn't mind if the club gave Jürgen time off to grieve properly without the distraction of football. I can't even begin to imagine the pain of missing your parent's funeral.

13.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 11:59:43
Exactly IR.
I have been saying this for weeks now, and it’s become more apparent with almost every game.
He’s not a creative hub, and he’s a liability out of possession.
A midfield 3 in many PL matches does not suit him.
It’s ok blaming Gini, and I agree that he is awful at showing for the ball off the CBs, but Jones and Thiago together do not do anything like enough together in terms of work rate.
Thiago cannot make runs into the box beyond Bobby and I think he’s had one shot on target from outside of the box.
I’d rather have Ox start tbh.

14.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 12:46:40
IR, you are not seeing those things you mentioned cos again, the team is out of sorts and keep in mind, he is coming back from a long injury lay off and it is not ideal to come back and find your feet in a struggling team. He looks average now cos he is playing out of position in a struggling midfield. He was not even supposed to play vs LC cos again, injury to Milner. Was Thabo carrying a knock or being saved for RBL, who knows.

You say he is not contributing to our offensive play. That is cos he is playing way too deep, imo. Check the Spurs game. He was very good cos he was closer to the final third due to Gino and Milner doing the job defensively. You also said it yourself, things could be diff if he played in a team full of confidence. That I agree with as well cos tho he is struggling, you just gave some reasons why.

15.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 13:45:51
I don't think he is playing too deep at all. For me he is mainly in the offensive half, occasionally dropping back to receive a ball of a defender or keeper.

16.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 13:57:08
Oli you argued long and hard against a Coutinho-type player up top and now, just because it’s Thiago, you’ve gone 360 degrees about face.
Thiago played in a 4-2-3-1 or similar type formation and mostly others did the chasing for him.
I can agree that without the strongest possible team out (VVD etc) it’s impossible to say definitively that he isn’t suited to the team but we’re far from that position at present.
The numbers out with injuries are almost forcing his inclusion but I just think he would be better off on the subs bench I’m afraid.

17.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 17:20:55
Juicer, Thiago and Cou are two diff types of players and creators so there’s that. I did not want a Cou type player cos such players want everything to go thru them, something that Klopp himself said he had and issue with when Cou was here. We are a system. A well oiled machine were everything works hand in hand. Cou type players like to b the main man like Bruno at Utd. That is against what Klopp was trying to build.

Thiago is diff cos he is a diff kind of creator and unlike Cou or Bruno, does not need to b the main man to thrive and is great in our system cos Klopp does not have to alter the way we play to accommodate him, IMO.

I fully understand your point that maybe he needs to take a break on the bench. Klopp actually agreed with you vs Leicester but he had to come on cos again, injury to Milner. The options are simply not there to give guys a break so they have to play, This is the issue, IMO.

18.) 14 Feb 2021
14 Feb 2021 18:49:21
He did play the holding role at Bayern with Goretzka playing the B2B role. so it's wrong to say he never played there.
The truth is he flopped there and now people want Fab and Hendo to do the dirty works for him.
The truth is He is a Pep type player and not a Klopp type midfielder.