18 Dec 2018 14:52:08
Yes yes, we're all clearly very sad about Mourinho getting sacked and that he was doing such a sterling job for us etc.

I'm a little miffed, however, that Liverpool aren't getting the credit they deserve for their performance in the game the other day. It seems to pass people by that as toothless as Man Utd were, it was our intent, work ethic, skill and sheer determination in all areas of the pitch that made United look so goddamn ordinary.

I wish I had the stats, or the time to research the details, but I remember at least twice last season where managers were sacked straight after playing us, it happens quite a lot. The way that Klopp gets his teams playing can blow other teams away to the point where they look worse than they actually are. Admittedly, you don't sacked after one bad performance and so often it can signal the final death knell, but nearly all the talk after Sunday has been how atrocious Man Utd were and not how utterly fantastic Liverpool were. They never stood a chance, on form or not.

As far as United go, people talk like Mourinho was doing nothing but dragging them down and that they will now spring back, to the shape of the true superstars they are. I personally feel they have an awful lot of work to do to gain any level of where they want to be. It is not really an underachieving squad, but a poorly assembled one, ageing or weak in key areas, but with a smattering of real talent. Whichever poor fool they get to become the next scapegoat is going to have to work miracles to get them where they want to be.

I thought Mourinho was originally doing his usual self sabotage trick, but I do actually think he wanted to succeed there, (why wouldn't you? ) but lost interest as he realised the size of the task was too massive for his self-imposed immediate success mantra.

I do think that is why Klopp has been such a sucess, regardless of lack of trophies, simply because he has changed the whole philosophy, outlook and confidence in the playing side of the club. The style is huge, the intensity is important, but the team now plays with his infectious personality, it's hard not to feel on top of the world with it and like you can achieve anything.

Yes we have spent money to be where we are, but I am sure United will spend more without anything to show unless they get the right guy in charge, and maybe not just the manager - they need to change philosophy, like us, find someone to trust, and allow him to fully build properly. If they start thinking in trophies instead of dollar signs then more cash will come anyway, that's how they became what they are now.

I know this is a proper ramble and I know that we may have won nothing yet, but as a fan of a football team, enjoying the way we play, seeing the progression and breaking records, I couldn't be much happier. It's easy to be smug after such a convincing victory, but United's board should take heed.

1.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 17:07:05
Not sure we can take the credit for making United look ordinary, they have looked ordinary for a while now, you tend to expect them to raise the game against us though and that never happened, they looked lost and not willing to put in any effort, against your main rivals (historically) that’s pretty much the nail in mourinhos coffin.

2.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 17:22:17
Shaqed and Sacked in the same week haha.

3.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 17:28:09
Agree with Mikey - no matter their form you would expect United to raise their game when playing us, just like you'd expect us to raise our game when playing them (and in fact during some of our darker years as a club in the early 00's we did just that) . That they showed no motivation, no desire, no care, is their biggest problem.

Mourinho has to take criticism but I do wonder at what point the players start to shoulder the burden? Lukaku has been abysmal this season and looks disinterested, Pogba is simply not focused on football, Sanchez is now injured but seemingly couldn't care less what happened so long as we wasn't being played in his preferred position, Valencia starting acting up, etc etc - Mourinho is rightly criticised but I think some of the players have gotten off lightly. Same happened with him at Chelsea, he was booted, Conte came in, turned their fortunes for a season, and then found the same players not putting in the required effort/ being motivated enough when the chips were down. Players at all clubs need to step up - too many of them have too much power and can force their way no matter the interests of the club and in lieu of anything the manager says or does. It is a testament to the player power of modern times.

Don't get me wrong I'm quite happy watching United struggle, but the issue of player power becomes ever more present season by season wherein it is reaching a stage that, so long as the players can't be arsed, the manager is a sitting duck. When will fans start to put blame onto the players? How can United fans constantly criticise Mourinho, for example, but fail to really point out some of the chief culprits in their team for their collective failure this season? United are in a bad way, who they pick as manager, interim or otherwise, will have a big say in how they progress in the next few seasons. More worryingly the precedent set by these players may have a ripple effect where we see the power of the coaches reduced with each passing season. I guess now, more than ever, picking players with the right mentality matters.

4.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 17:45:21
I think it’s a mixture of both players not wanting to play for the manager and the manager not getting he's way and not having any up to date tactics or plan B apart from longball to captain elbows.

5.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 19:05:32
OP, I feel what you are saying BUT really, was that ever in doubt based on the dross we saw from them? I mean, Cardiff and Fulham put up a stronger fight than that lot so the credit we got was one where it was like getting credit for beating Burnley or Cardiff cos really, that is what it looked like.

As for Mou's sacking, Sir Bobby Charlton knew what he was saying when he said Utd should never have hired him. He is poison, plain and simple. Utd needed a guy who could win right now and they got some short term success (and screw the rest) if you call winning "losers' trophies" (his words, not mine) after spending over 400m success and got what they paid for. As for the team and squad they are dire, plain and simple.

People say "why can't Utd play like LFC"? Is that a joke? Have you seen their players? Have you seen the manager they have and the stoneage tactics he deploys? They don't play like us cos they simply, can't, end of story. They may have sacked Mou BUT the issues they have go way beyond him and their misery has only begun, IMO.

6.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 19:29:32
Great post Seano. It makes you realise what a job we are doing with recruiting. Attitude and desire are clearly high on the list of attributes a player must have. Shaqiri seemed to be a gamble when signed as there were apparent attitude and work rate issues, but Klopp obviously had confidence in him and in his own ability to get the best out of him.

I know Klopp carries on like a madman on the sidelines sometimes, but he greatly outweighs that side with his like-ability and passion for his own players. I can only think Jose criticised his players regularly as he wanted to get the sack. Why would any manager think that's the way to get the most out of your players?

7.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 21:17:05
Borenio is the news of the week but don't forget Raneri got just the same lazyarsed performances out of Liecester the season after winning the league, and he don't seem confrontationable nor quick to blame others, Klopps doing great to keep a unified squad and I pray it continues, but player power is a real issue today in the game.

8.) 18 Dec 2018
18 Dec 2018 21:54:30
It does feel that way Burkey that Mourinho was deliberately prodding the bear to see if it would swipe. He's never really looked happy there so perhaps his criticisms were aimed at getting himself the boot - on the other hand maybe they were intended to give a kick up the arse to the players who simply weren't showing enough. Luke Shaw has looked better this season after being repeatedly cited by Mourinho for a lack of fitness, work ethic, etc so who knows? Maybe Mourinho feels those criticisms are justified if players aren't pulling their weight, I can't say I disagree.

I think Klopp has a very clear idea what he wants from the squad, and the players, I think they know it too. We have recruited, under him, players who have, by and large, all contributed. I've been sceltical over a number of players including Wijinaldum, Oxlaide, Shaqiri but they have all exceeded any expectations I have had. Whether that is down to Klopp's motivation, his eye for talent, or my woeful ability to properly appraise a players ability who knows? But it certainly seems like we have a manager who knows what he wants, knows what the system demands, and seems able to squeeze the performances necessary out of the players within said system. It has cost significant outlay, sure, but how else would we be pushing for a title tilt? We are lucky, both with our manager and with the type of players we have at the club - there is an argument to be made that, even when they are not at their best, that keeping players like Milner, Henderso, etc at the club is a must and I cannot disagree. They set the standard for everyone, they lead by example, and in doing that they push everyone in the squad to be better - I wonder who is doing that at United.

9.) 19 Dec 2018
19 Dec 2018 00:15:25
Similarities between us and UTD here. I remember when Kenny resigned, he realised he had an ageing team that needed too much work doing to it, also Hillsborough didn’t help him or any of us.
My point is after an extremely successful spell of winning we lost a great manager and spent years in limbo trying to realise those great feats again. Many managers tried but failed and we still aren’t there yet.
Fergie left an ageing ordinary UTD side and they seem to be going the same way we did, many managers trying but failing.

10.) 19 Dec 2018
19 Dec 2018 01:03:03
Great post Seano_ and brilliant thread with great insight and opinions being shared.

I think that is twice after playing Klopp Mourinho has been sacked, Chelsea first time round and Utd now.

11.) 19 Dec 2018
19 Dec 2018 09:24:51
I read he had the sack from madrid after playing Klopps Dortmund too.

12.) 19 Dec 2018
19 Dec 2018 16:44:41
I honestly don’t think the media and even some United fans are recognising just how disastrous his tenure has been. He won two trophies and finished runner up last season but for me, he has been swimming against the current the whole time. It has never seemed right.

From day one he has never stopped moaning. Looking miserable in public, criticising the fans, the board, his own team. From the very first season to the last, all of his squad bar De Gea have under performed. He has never got the best out of them. Alienated the players already present at the club, tried to replace them, then alienated those players as well. Questioned the mentality of his entire team when he had signed half of them. Almost every player he signed regressed from the moment he signed them, players that made fans of every other club salivate with jealousy and on wages that would send most other clubs into administration. Only for him to ask for more money and more players and then being unable to understand why the club don’t want to cooperate.

The disrespect he has shown to United over 2 and a half seasons has been utterly pathetic. Living out of a hotel, the comments made, the sulking, he seems to have had nothing but utter contempt for the club since the day he arrived. Constantly playing down Manchester United as an underdog, putting them down and telling everyone how rubbish he thinks they are, even going as far to say almost every team he came up against was much better than the one he had assembled. One of the most expensive squads in history with so much potential, with almost every player regressing. After all the time and resources, not even a hint of a particular style of play.

It has been a complete car crash from start to finish in every respect. From the outside looking in, i don’t think there has ever been a more turgid, pathetic and disgraceful management of a club from day one to the day it ended. The trophies are just about the only thing that has papered over the cracks of the pure insanity that has engulfed United over the past few years, and any journalist choosing to ignore all of this to blame it on Alderweireld not signing is utterly delusional. When even the Liverpool fans are saying that the United fans deserve better, that really does say something.

13.) 19 Dec 2018
19 Dec 2018 16:45:59
Seano, I know what you're saying re some players responding, like Shaw. But, for every player that that approach works on, there's maybe 5 that it doesn't. It's terrible when you look at how Mou whinged that he wasn't backed in the transfer market. He spent 400 million on 11 players at Utd, 400 million! When you look at our incomings under Klopp it's amazing the success rate we've had.

14.) 19 Dec 2018
19 Dec 2018 18:53:49
I think you’re a bit mistaken there mushroom. King Kenny didn’t run away from the challenge of revitalising the team, he was on the verge of a nervous breakdown after all the stress of Hillsborough and keeping the team winning. I was at that last match and I nearly had heart failure after that 4:4 game.

Kenny could well have taken Liverpool on and reinvented the team but he needed a break for his physical and mental health. If the Board had been more astute he might have got it but he didn’t and the rest is history.

Utd are going through their own decline from greatness and handling it considerably worse than we did. I’m just hoping they take 30 years to recover properly as well.