10 Sep 2017 23:40:25
There's only one post I've seen since yesterday that comes close to accurately explaining what went wrong yesterday (take a bow Ron) ; Klopp got his approach to the game all wrong.

Any post that criticizes Klopp has to have a caveat, mine is that I love Klopp, when he gets it righthis teams are spectacular. The problem is he's an arrogant son of a b*tch and yesterday his arrogance got the better of him. He believed his own hype, that he was unbeatable against another top six side. His set up took absolutely no consideration into how to stop city playing.

Klopp thought he could show up and Mane and Salah would win it for him. He thought TAA, Matip, Klavan and Moreno were good enough to hold Aguero et al at bay without midfield cover. Guardiola is no mug and has the best squad in the league. They went toe to toe with us, whethered a few half chances and then tore us apart. It was embarrassing how easy it was for them.

The one positive that can come from this is that it might make Klopp realise that he can't always have it his own way, that sometimes he had to figure out how to ensure the other team scores less rather than Liverpool score more. If he doesn't learn this lesson then there'll be plenty of incredible matches where we eviscerate the opposition but there'll be no titles, he'll mess up too often.


1.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 00:11:34
Good post Putney but klopp has won titles in a tough league with perhaps a lesser squad than some. The tactics might have got us something from the game. I doubt anyone even considered we would play most of the match with ten men as we are not really a physical side. At least the red card was because of a desire to win rather than out of thuggish violence.

I don't think there is much to learn that we didn't already know. The defence ain't all that and apply constant pressure and they collapse. It highlights what having a man sent off does to an attacking team. We haven't lost the league yet and I think Burnley are in line for a hammering. Seville will be difficult but they won't like coming to anfield on a Wednesday night.


2.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 01:24:25
The team was doing great, away fom home against one of the potential champions until the red card;
The contest was over when Mane was shown a red card.

It was a bad injury but not a sending off,
There was just as bad a challenge today in Swansea v Newcastle and that got a yellow card shown.

IT WAS exactly the same challenge
bit it just hit a different part of the body.

A yellow would have been fine in both cases,


3.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 01:53:29
Superred, there were clear lessons from this game; playing recklessly is not a reliable way to win games. That we have to compensate for our personnel problems not ignore them. That we'll concede if we let top class players get behind our midfield. If we don't learn anything from this were doomed to make the same mistakes over and over again.


4.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 02:13:51
The tactics were fine before we lost Mane. We were a goal down but with equal chances at both ends. If they had lost Silva to a red card, chances are we would have exploited the space and treated them like Arsenal.


5.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 02:14:14
Likewise love the guy and Klopps done wonders for the side but he made a few errors for me too.

1) agree he should have been more defensive away from home vs City in his selections in defense
2) I would have gone for the experience of Gomez over TAA, Lovren over Klavan and Robertson at LB. how we thought that back 4 would survive vs City is beyond me, we were clearly hoping to blow them away upfront
3) Klavan to me looks fine against sides with big forwards and no pace. he's brave and attacks the ball in the air. but as soon as it's played on the ground and he's having to mark quick runners he's exposed
4) still not sure about Migs either. not his shot stopping skills but organizationally we still look all over the place with him between the sticks

After the sending off though we still tried to defend in a press and got killed. impossible task and Klopp should have set up with two banks of four but instead we still had gaps all over midfield as people pushed to press high.

Overall a terrible day at the office and hopefully we learn to be a bit more balanced and pragmatic at times to prevent our defense being exposed too often (we seemed to be learning end of last season) . Still think it's early days and we have a great squad bar a couple of obvious weaknesses. just need to get the setup right.


6.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 02:41:52
The only way we can go toe to toe with citeh is like chelsea did, with some cunning gamesmanship, but alas our players are just too goody 2 shoes. Look at Chelsea team they have Luiz, Fabragas, Costa, Alonso etc it was Fabregas who got Fernandinho sent off last time. We need bit of cultish attitude.


7.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 03:54:12
i agree with everything in your post except the emphasism on Kloop winning the title in germany. yes he did win BM. but LFC is a different there is a lot PR pressure here, he has the last say here where as in BM he had DOF you did the transfers for him and in this way DOF always had a bigger picture in his mind. i feel Kloop is like a kid in a candy shop who wants to buy only attacking players, no real desire on the defence. i might be wrong but most of the managers who won the prem were defensive managers and all of them sorted thier defence first ( even wenger with his invincibles had a great defensive set up) . i do like kloop but i doubt that he is the man to win us the prem or CL. but i do hope we win the league cup or FA cup this year.

{Ed001's Note - Klopp is trying to buy defenders, so your post is just nonsense.}


8.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 06:47:42
Supered

A lesser squad? Like who? Lewandowski, Reus, Gotze, Hummels, Gundagaon. Sahin, Bender, All those would walk into our team right now!


9.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 07:41:13
Sahin couldn't walk into a weaker squad a couple of years back, what makes you think he can walking into this squad? Klopp had an oppotunity to buy Gotze and he did not, so what makes you think he can walk in now?


10.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 08:09:39
Sahin was being misused by Rodgers who thought he was a number ten. Unfair analogy.


11.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 08:18:47
That was not the point icon

Klopp had one of the best team in Europe when he won the titles at BVB. The moment he sold Gotze and less they went to relegation mode! It was not like he took a Burneletband won the league over ther.

And regarding Sahin, He is a proper DLP who was played as a CAM by Brendan!


12.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 08:36:18
No, they would not Harry and stop this nonsense about other players being better than ours just cos they don't play for us. The players you mentioned were created by who? That would be Klopp and he to some extent is doing the exact same thing here so no one knows if they would walk into this team as the PL is different.

Now to the Putney post. You call Klopp arrogant SOB. And what manager is not and arrogant SOB? His opposite no. does not even believe in his defenders making tackles or getting stuck in and Wenger does not even care about the opposition team's tactics but these guys are not arrogant but Klopp is, right?

Klopp believed in the team he put out there and before the red card, we were well in the game and should have been one up before their goal and tied before the red card had Salah taken his chances and had Fernandinho not fouled Mane from behind as he was ripping their defence to pieces. He was not arrogant during this period BUT he would later be arrogant after the red card, right? Pathetic reasoning, really.

The pathetic recriminations need to stop, ASAP. I know the red card ruined the game BUT there were other things that could still have been done better that the red card should not cover up. Defensively on the first 3 goals, we were dire and that should be fixed. We have issues with starting fast at early day kickoffs and that has been a concern for a while now. As for the selection, Klopp did what he thought was right with the fitness info at his disposal. We do not have this info to fall back on so saying this or that player should have played or not, is pointless supposition.


13.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 09:28:32
I think it's a fine line and had Mane not been sent off, had we taken one of our early chances it might have been the reverse score line.
I'm not going to criticise only Klopp. What about this guy "the brain"? Has he not figured it out yet? Can he not see that we often commit too many players forward or that Klavan is too slow to play in a high line?


14.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 11:06:15
Ron.
They know exactly what is happening on the pitch as the players are performing to what they are told to do! We commit too many forward coz he wants us to attack in numbers. We don't have a proper holding midfielder who sit infront of the defense and protect the CB's.


15.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 11:18:01
Ron, you are not totally wrong. I don't know that if Mane had been on the pitch for 90 mins, we would have won as no one knows that and City is more than capable of scoring 5 vs any team's first 11 as they are that good. We have issues in this team that came to the fore again, red card or not and that is where the debate should begin. Klopp even said that the first goal should have been avoided by the defensive line simply taking too steps forward and then both Aguero and Gab Jesus would have been offside and no goal happens. Tiny details like that, make a difference.


16.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 12:02:46
are liverpool fans the only fans in the world that act like losing a football game is tantamount to reason? like it's the biggest anomaly in sport or something?


17.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 13:09:45
Faith, it is because many of our fans use a bad result to either gloat in a bid to say "see, I was right" or to say "FSG out" (as if FSG is the reason Mane got a red card) or to do recriminations against a certain player (s) or the manager that they want to really criticize but can't as we were undefeated in all comps. b4 the City game. Everyone has his/ her reasons why they go into meltdown mode after a bad result BUT it is part of the game. I just hope there are more realistic and rational supporters than this lot.


18.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 13:51:43
Putney you say that we keep making the same mistakes over and over but actually that is our only defeat for a long time. It is also the only drumming I can actually remember? My cigarettes smell funny though and my memory is shot!

When we win (which we usually do) we call klopp a genius, we could have completely consolidated but 1 0 is the same as 5 0 in points and the one positive I took from Saturday (it was hard to find a positive) is that we still tried to play and that was brave (perhaps daft) but brave.


19.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 16:34:46
I'm sure dortmund weren't favourites when they first won the German league. You can list some class players yes but list some of Munich for balance.


20.) 11 Sep 2017
11 Sep 2017 16:49:53
We went toe to toe with city last season and won one drew one didn't we? And beat em in a cup I think? The red card cost us. I think we would've got something from the game with eleven men. Let's not give up hope yet. Last week everyone was saying we are going to win the league and one defeat later the season is over already! I still think we can win it. I honestly believe we can.