21 Nov 2016 19:24:54
Just my own two cents on this whole LFC`s perceived defensive and this fixation on lack of clean sheets. I have done some research and IMO, this is nothing but a myth, a false narrative that many other fans, helped by "pundits" in the media, as a stick to beat us and Klopp with because they may not be able to stand the progress we are making under him.

Here`s why, Currently, LFC leads the PL in every attacking category needed to win games in the PL. We lead the PL in goals scored, chances created, shots, shots on target, possession, possession in the opponents half and Hendo leads the PL in passes completed in the opponents half.

In fact, LFC is second in chances created among all 5 top European leagues. Are you kidding me? Now defensively, we lead the PL in chances conceded, shots conceded, and shots on target conceded. We have also improved massively at defending set pieces by either not conceding them a lot and dealing with them when they do come. Karius barely has anything to do globally when he plays.

This is a testament to Klopp and the players ability to defend while attacking all while being in a very fluid expansive system that requires all out attacking football. You can`t attack me if you`re too busy trying to stop me. We don`t need to outscore you because you won`t even get the chance to create a scoring opportunity.

That's why even Mou and Puel had to park two buses and even then, we could and should have won those games respectively. Not team boasts these exceptional attacking and defensive statistics.

The goals we have conceded are mainly due to individual errors or a slip while we are either in the lead or the game is dead and buried and even then bar Spurs, we have NEVER given up three points from a winning position, something we led the PL in with 19 points dropped from winning positions.

Now to the clean sheet nonsense. L`OM leads the French League in goals conceded at home (1) and clean sheets (6 at home and 7 overall) . Where are they in the table? 11th and watching them play is like watching paint dry.

Mingo had double digit clean sheets in the 14/ 15 season and where did we finish? A pathetic 6th position with a 5-1 loss to Stoke to boot. Utd have a worse attack than we do and have conceded as much as we have (14) yet they are 8 points back.

Which team you you rather be? Liverpool or Utd under Mou, L`OM, LFC under BR or LFC under under Klopp? Exactly. The way we play allows us to be on the front foot and defend at the same time and even tho we have conceded 14 goals in 12 games, City and Arsenal have conceded only 2 or 3 less while well ahead them in goals scored.

IMO, the jealous haters at other clubs and certain members of media prolly never thought we would do as well as we have and since they have next to nothing to criticize us for really, they resort to things like "Can they sustain this type of play till May" or "They need more clean sheets" which to me are nothing but smokescreens because no one knows what will happen before May.

Not saying I don`t like clean sheets as they are welcome and we need to always improve on both sides of the ball BUT I`ll take a 2-1 win over a 0-0 any day. Pls, feel free to jump into the discussion.

1.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 19:56:32
Chelsea has conceded far less than us. Explain How?
All these stats doesn't show exact picture mate. We are brilliant going forward but not so good defensively.

2.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 20:00:27
Great post and if you're statistics are correct you make a 'we will win the league' optimist in me 😉
We're not perfect yet but we're scaring the living bejesus out of our rivals and you're right, they're grasping to the fact our defence is weak and certainly hoping it gets worse.
Your stats prove what we can all see. We're improving greatly in that area and if we can cut out the individual errors we'll be even better (holy crap that makes me happy! )

3.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 20:23:37
We want sides to think we have some weakness at the back so they at least have a go then bam we hit them!

Whatever it takes I think Klopp will find the way to go and whilst we will have set backs and a frustrating draw now and again I reckon we are all in for one mighty fine season

We will just need to be ready to ramp it up again when we have Champions League games next season and I have a feeling that we are already getting our ducks in a row for two or three tasty incoming to make our squad ultra competitive and if 2 or 3 of the youngsters come through as well then we are going to be a brilliant side that just gets better.

We do of course need our share of luck on keeping injuries to a minimum but other than that I reckon we have bought a ticket in the raffle and we have a big chance to pick up some silverware this season.

4.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 20:42:09
Harry, your response clearly shows you have difficulty reading and understanding other people`s posts. The goal of the post was to show how massively we have improved defensively which is mainly due to the attacking style we play. I offered nuances to debunk the pathetic "Clean Sheet" myth with stats to bear this out and the stas are clear especially with the fact that I`m not a stats guy but even I couldn`t ignore them when I saw them. Nowhere did I ever mentioned winning the title with this system, never said we were better than the teams I mentioned in the post including Chelsea, neither did I mention that we should not strive for clean sheets. But since you always feel the need to compare us with other teams as if anyone should care what they are doing bar yourself, I will indulge you. Chelsea changed their system to a 3-4-3 defensive system because they were leaking goals for fun. This is a system that Conte played and coached in as he`s a coach who starts his teams holding a defensive shape. Packing players in to crowd the midfield and defense may be one good way of defending BUT not the best way as in a 3-4-3 when under pressure, you can leave gaps that can be taken advantage of. We don`t play that way as I wouldn`t want us to play that way as they only have 3 attacking players while we have the front three and Lallana, Wiji and now Can to help with goals. There`s a reason we are beating them in goals scored and their good is only two better than ours. if the league ended level on points and GD, the next tiebreaker is goals scored and if we are ahead the with that, Can you say Premier League Champions? Even with 6 clean sheet in six victories in a row, they are only one point ahead of us, 2 measly goals ahead on the good scale and are still behind us in goals scored. We both know they can`t sustain this over a course of the season and they are about face City and Spurs who are no slouches in the attacking dept. so we will see. Again, you just jumped on the post without actually reading it fully and understanding the nuances presented hence, your response which has nothing to do with the comments themselves.

5.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 20:57:16
Thanks for the comment, Extra Bacon. We have made some much progress under Klopp in one year and we are really, a work in progress and our margin of progression is only getting higher. However to keep improving as a club, CL is primordial as it allows you to develop more on the commercial side, keep your best players and acquire good players to help you improve further on the pitch. It`s a snowball effect really. Now do I want the title? Heck Yeah! But we should focus on running first before jumping while at the same time, enjoy the progress we are making and stick together come rain, sunshine, hell or high water. Now, I don`t know if this will land us the PL title but if we keep improving, CL football is certain. The title? We`ll discuss that some time in April as soon as CL footie is secured as that is the main target.

6.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 20:58:42
That`s what I`m talking about, Tommy. let's just keep rolling and never look back. Where it leads us, we shall see.

7.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 21:00:37
Sweet chin music

Chelsea have a better defensive record for the simple reason they are playing basic Italian style of football which is very effective at times and boring to watch 99% of the time, saying that they will be there or there abouts in the top 4 this season and it's going to be very close come April between the top 4 and I can see quite a gap between 4th and 5th by then.

8.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 21:06:57
Bang on Hamilton great post. I think a lot of the individual errors come because the defenders have so little defending to do. We just have to improve our concentration which I'm sure we will.

9.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 21:29:17
So do you want Klopp to change his style of play and be more defensive just to be better at defense Harry? Even if it comes at the cost of our attacking powers?

You should write a book Harry.

10.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 21:34:30
Good read that Hamilton red, and like extra bacon said we are making other teams take a lot of notice, really enjoyable football this season long may it continue. extra bacon have u had bacon with maple syrup oh my god it's unreal, thanks canada we owe u.

11.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 21:44:22
Hamilton I have just ticked agree to virtually every point you make. Just to make a further point, it is not just about the back four when defending. The other players have to stop the crosses and not allow the opposition time. This is the style we now play and it is so encouraging to see. In today's Telegraph Chris Bascombe, a reputed fan who has previously been critical when necessary, points to our all round improvement and the continued development of Matip and the fact that Lovren is increasingly more confident. Van Dyke was MoM but he had so much more to do. Soton did not try to compete. At the moment we are a difficult side to stop winning, while Chelsea et al are difficult to beat. Hopefully this will continue but nothing is guaranteed in this league.

12.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 22:01:13
Thanks Savy
That was all I asked.

AG
No I don't want Klopp to change the style.

13.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 23:06:33
And since we are talking about Chelsea (this must be annoying Ed2) I watched them away to Middlesbrough give up numerous chances that had boro's players had a bit more quality would have resulted in certain goals. We played away to Southampton (a superior team than Boro) and gave them one chance in 94 minutes. Exactly as Hamilton said they were too busy trying to contain us to actually mount an attack whereas with Chelsea you keep Hazard and Costa quiet and there's no one else who can really hurt you as the rest are basically defenders. (I've left Pedro out of this because he's just not very good)

{Ed002's Note - It doesn't annoy me but there is a fundamental misconception - Conte arrived to play with three at the back - it took him a couple of months to get the players to be able to comfortably play that way - it was not transition but selling a concept to the players that they agreed with - and then getting them used to it. It is working OK right now and you can clutch at straws about the opposition and how great they are (forgetting that Southampton have already lost at home to Chelsea). This slightly weird obsession with Chelsea bothers me little. Have you thought about supporting a team playing a different sport? Perhaps cricket, which is more of a game, like darts and pocket billiards?}

14.) 21 Nov 2016
21 Nov 2016 23:41:32
Thanks for all the posts, guys. Keep them coming as the discussion is heating up. What are your opinions, Eds?

{Ed002's Note - I have not seen or heard of anything beyond business as usual - Liverpool are doing very well, it will be very difficult to win the league but they cannot be discounted. A European place is certainly on the cards. Minor changes will happen but they cannot keep starting again. Other sides have been drawing games and Chelsea and Liverpool have taken advantage - that won't continue and Arsenal and Manchester City won't go away. Klopp is not entirely stupid and he will (or should) know that right now making changes to a successful first team could backfire. And nobody here is trashing any particular player - so the answer is tweak, and no more.}

15.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 00:13:50
Hamilton, you echo my thoughts on Liverpool's defensive quality. A good post, but don't forget to use paragraphs, it will give your opinions a bigger audience!

I have never bought into the media narrative that we are a defensive shambles. I can't say I have noticed any team who has been able to wreak havoc on our defence. In my point of view, we are good at preventing teams from breaking us down. Where our vulnerabilities lie are stupid individual errors, clocking off when we are leading by a few goals, and occassionally set pieces. Our set piece defending has improved, but it could still be better. We still seem be slow to react to those rebound balls.

But compared to City or Arsenal, is our defence really that much worse? Not IMO. City were shipping in quite a few goals during their rough patch of form recently yet no one was going hysterical about their defence as much as they do about us if we let in goals.

16.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 00:42:26
Savvxyone, have you even watched any of chelseas last 6 games? They've been anything but boring defensive games. And Pipscreamer, Chelsea demolished and were beyond comfortable against a Soton side you struggled to break down. If you're going to compare performances at least try and compare games against the same opponents. And Hamilton you're 'very attacking' Liverpool side have only scored 3 more goals than a 'very defensive' Chelsea side. Not so impressive ahah.

17.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 02:36:19
Conte is getting the results and no one expected them to be on top. He has done a good job in a short time.

Last week was a missed opportunity for us. Klopp could have started or given more time to Sturridge or even Origi. Playing Firminio and without any striker most of the time will get Dan and Divock thinking about their future with us and any other future striker will think before coming to us.

18.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 04:27:28
I wouldn't say that Chelsea are overly defensive. Think about it, they leave 3 at the back, and have two offensive wing-backs who bomb forward to assist and score goals. Conte may have been defensive in Italy, but everyone is defensive in Italy.

{Ed001's Note - he wasn't that defensive in Italy, he didn't need to be, there was only his team that were any good. It was easy for them.}

19.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 06:42:49
I don't know know where people saw Chelsea defensive? Kante has spend More time in the opposition half than any other midfielder while their full backs are a lot better than Clyne and Milner going forward.

Take it Coutinho and Firmino and we will struggle. Did we not against UTD?

Playing 3 at the back has actually stabilized their team ( Comsisering they have externally poor CB's )

I think their performance against Everton and Southampton were first class.

20.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 07:12:58
Liverpool struggled against United because they were just off their game. They seemed to be rattled, they couldn't even hold possession. United's pressing wasn't so good that it was impossible to retain the ball.

Dude, if any team will struggle to score goals if their striker and AM are off their game. This is not a uniquely Liverpool phenomenon.

21.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 07:21:57
Agreed Nick

I was replying to someone above who claims, take out Hazard and Costa and they would struggle. Every team has certain talent who could unlock any team. Take out KDB and Aguero City will struggle. This is a crap thinking.

22.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 08:33:08
I didn't say take out Hazard and Costa and they would struggle. My point was keep them quiet and you will have a chance. Just an observation from watching them the other day as everything decent attacking wise came from them. The rest will work but carry very little goal threat. Moses has done well but as we all know is not that great and Alonso, well if he played for us he'd get the Moreno treatment from most fans. No obsession with Chelsea Ed just carrying on a discussion as Sweet had brought them up as a comparison. Personally I couldn't care less what Chelsea do and think they will get found out before the end of the season.

23.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 08:47:52
Thats for any team Pipsscreamer. Keep De Bruyne and Aguero quiet and City struggle. Keep Pogba and Zlatan quiet and United struggle. Keep Sanchez and Ozil quiet and Arsenal struggle. Break Harry Kane's leg and Spurs struggle.

I initially didn't think much of Chelsea, but that back 3 is working very well for them.

24.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 07:38:55
Comparison is the thief of joy.

Be joyful we are playing very well, in a hugely entertaining way and getting good results.

Chelsea are also playing well and on a good run. City cannot be discounted. We need to focus on our game and not to worry overly about Chelsea or City until we play them. Our focus is beating the next team we face.

Oh, and ed002, don't diss cricket.

25.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 09:34:30
Although I agree to a point Nick City would still have Silva, Sterling, Toure that could still hurt you. We would have Mane, Lallana, Can who can all score goals. Chelsea have nobody. It's all irrelevant anyway as I don't give a toss about Chelsea and would much rather talk about Liverpool I just got sucked in to a debate and Chelsea were mentioned as a comparison. We are doing well and long may it continue.

26.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 09:58:37
Yeah, but City have struggled every time De Bruyne was injured.

27.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 10:37:23
What Chelsea hold an advantage over City and Liverpool are they don't concede when their front players have an off day. They could easily rely on their backline and midfield to do a job. That is where the title would be decided this season.

28.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 11:05:08
But Liverpool tend not to concede when not firing on all cylinders either. Attack was subpar against United and didn't concede. A bit subpar against Saints and didn't concede then either.

29.) 22 Nov 2016
22 Nov 2016 17:07:08
Talking with both sides of your mouth again Harry. You said that Chelsea don`t concede when their front players have an off day as that may see them through to the title. Really? Was it not you berating us because our strikers had an off day vs Utd and So`ton because our front players were had an off day and yet not conceding? How is that a bad reflection on us BUT a good reflection on Utd and Chelsea? Seriously? You spent time praising Mou for being a genius where as all he did was park the bus, same thing Puel did so is Puel a genius too? You are literally giving credit to Chelsea and Utd but berating LFC for doing the exact same thing both teams do. Your hypocrisy is deafening. You know what, I`m dealing with Harry so never mind.