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07 Feb 2019 09:50:38
Question for Ed 002. Will UEFA's recently reported memorandum of understanding with the European Clubs Association kill off the plans for a European Super League?

Redplanet

{Ed002's Note - No. What it does is make an early start (pre 2024) very unlikely. Timing wise, two very prominent clubs wanted it to happen as soon as possible (2021 was the most recently proposed date) and they have the support of a third club - but most are looking at 2023 to 2025 being a good option. A few clubs are looking at 2025 to 2028 and I suspect that could end up as the reality.

Right now, of the 21 clubs involved in the discussions, two have said they will not be in any breakawy league and three have said they may not compete. That will likely change by the time anything eventually happens and talks will continue.}


1.) 07 Feb 2019 10:06:03
I can’t see it happening. It would be the death of football in my opinion and pretty much everyone I speak to feels the same.
It wouldn’t last very long with no fans turning up to watch it.

{Ed002's Note - You don't really fully understand the situation I would think. Which club's fans are not going to turn up?}


2.) 07 Feb 2019 10:27:54
Most of them I’d imagine, especially English teams. I could see Real and Barcelona going for it but beyond that I really don’t see any club’s fans accepting a European league. Even with Real and Barcelona they discussed a game in America and there was uproar.
Rivalries should be within your own country it makes it all the more exciting a real. Imagine going in to work after losing to Madrid in the European super league. Who would actually care? It’s taking football away from the majority and making it an elitist sport for the corporates which might work initially but when they realise that the real fans don’t actually give a toss anymore it will die a very expensive death.


3.) 07 Feb 2019 10:37:44
I don't disagree with you Bobby, but that's the direction almost all sports are taking now. it's very sad really.


4.) 07 Feb 2019 10:55:25
I keep hearing that it would signal the ‘death of football’ from all and sundry, mainly ex pros and pundits who believe they are the voice of the people, but as usual, nobody actually says why it would be a bad thing. What specifically would be bad about a bit of reform?

All of the top leagues are pretty much set up with the same ‘elite’ clubs at the top of the table anyway. Take them away and leave the rest of the teams to have a more even contest and have more to celebrate than finishing 7th or avoiding relegation (at least in English prem) .

I think of it like the NFL. You have a set number of teams who compete for the main glamour competition and they are set, separate from everyone else. Then they have local state and college football teams which are still really highly supported, I mean to compete with our Premier League and Championship teams.

I know it’s not just being able stroll down the road in your hob nail boots to watch blenkinsop rovers, but football is an international sport. For the 40000 odd Liverpool fans who have the privilege to go to the stadium every week to watch the team play there may be some upheaval. For the 40000000 odd armchair Liverpool fans it will just mean better quality football every week.

People just don't like progress unless everything stays the same.

{Ed025's Note - i think it would be a disaster RITWW, local fans will not be able to afford to go to the games especially away, if you are an armchair supporter i could see it working for you but it already costs an arm and a leg to follow your team end this will make it impossible, its downright selfishness by everyone who wants it and i would like nothing more than for it to go tits up and hopefully bankrupt all these egotistical pricks who are looking for elitism mate..


5.) 07 Feb 2019 11:05:56
It's interesting how the date on this keeps getting pushed further and further back I've seen lots of eds posts on this over the years and the dates are moving further back with every year that passes and I think that will continue with this idea mainly being used as a threat against fifa/ uefa.


6.) 07 Feb 2019 10:46:00
“Which club's fans are not going to turn up? ”

Away fans (they make the most noise/ atmosphere)

Ed002 do you know if there will be promotion/ relegation?
If not I think that (lack of competition) would be a very serious threat to its success.

{Ed002's Note - There will ne no problems filling the stadia. Initially it will likely just be one league so there is no where to get promoted from.}


7.) 07 Feb 2019 11:25:07
from my point of view I don't see why the less than 1% of Liverpool fans who are fortunate enough to have a season ticket or attend matches regularly should be catered for any more than any other fan who spends their money in the name of the club.

There will always be people willing to go to see the matches, whether it’s bob from down the road or Xi Ping from Shanghai on holiday. It’s not 1970 anymore. People need to realise that the days of Liverpool being a solely Scouse club are long gone. Same goes with any of the potential breakaway clubs.

That said, if the breakaway were to happen and Liverpool weren’t part of it then I would be perfectly happy as well. I don’t have a favourite NFL team, for example, i just like watching it. That way, I could enjoy watching Liverpool and the elite competition.


8.) 07 Feb 2019 11:30:22
Fans are being forced away from watching their team enough with the amount it costs to follow them. Shirts, tickets, matchday its ridiculous how much it costs.


9.) 07 Feb 2019 11:50:08
Aren't those special games what the champions league is for? I don't think I could really be bothered watching Liverpool if it were Real Madrid this week Barcelona next week. What will be special about playing those every week.

Goodbye champions league evening games and probably goodbye to competing at the top level. The new league will most likely be won by the team with the most money unless they plan on capping wages and spending.

Its an appalling idea and frankly will end my interest in football.

{Ed025's Note - im with you mate..


10.) 07 Feb 2019 12:00:27
Redinthewrongway - you are 100% wrong in what you say.
Liverpool FC is a club based in Liverpool that represents the city of Liverpool in England. That is where we play and removing the locality factor strips away the very identity and meaning of what the club is. English clubs are not franchises like in the US, they have huge significance in the very identity of towns and cities across England, and your clear lack of respect for this is astonishing.
Just because something is new does not mean it constitutes ‘progress’.
The ESL will fail because it is meaningless, airbrushed and hollow.

{Ed002's Note - Actually you will find the head office of Liverpool in London. The game is global - you need to stop being so short-sighted about it.}


11.) 07 Feb 2019 12:11:43
Redinthewrongway, I am sure the Liverpool players are very grateful for your support from your comfy armchair on match days. Please have just a little respect for those like me who have been going to games at Anfield since the Shankly era. In my opinion we should be catered for just a little bit more than those who support from afar.


12.) 07 Feb 2019 12:13:38
Couldn’t care less about headquarters Ed002 - mute point. Liverpool represents the city of Liverpool, just like Man Utd represents the city of Manchester. That far-flung fans buy into what each club represents speaks volumes for how highly their respective identities are revered, not that the ‘game is global’. No one in Singapore supports New York FC or Shanghai Shenua, because there is no history or strong identity behind those clubs, despite it being a ‘global game’. Point being, Liverpool is loved because of what it is, not because the game is global.

{Ed002's Note - You really don't get what is going on at all - there will be changes coming. The "elite" group of 21 clubs meet regularly and this is a common point of discussion. There is no point in trying to explain any of it to you as you want Liverpool to stay in the dark ages - and right now that might well be the case. I have no idea how many people in Singapore support New York or Shanghai Shenua - nor do I understand the point of what you are trying to say. Do you think Liverpool should only allow supporters who were born and raised in Liverpool? Do you not think that Liverpool let the fan base down moving their head office to London?}


13.) 07 Feb 2019 12:28:10
It would signal the end of away fans.
Sure you’ll fill the stadia, with suits and people on day trips.
Good luck to them, but we all know the fun of football is the banter with opposition fans, the way a noisy fan base can inspire one team and intimidate another.
It will be a full, sterile stadium. It won’t have the same atmosphere and there will be no connection with the crowd.

Ask yourself why do clubs (like Liverpool, Barcelona, Real Madrid etc) currently allow away fans in? Why not fill the whole stadium with home team fans? They could sell it out many times over. The answer is that away fans create an environment where a competitive atmosphere can develop.

It’s just an opinion, it may be a roaring success. However, with no promotion/ relegation (so no jeopardy) half way through the season more than half the teams have nothing to play for and a stadium without away team fans will be sterile and soulless.

{Ed025's Note - i think your spot on ron..


14.) 07 Feb 2019 12:38:23
Im hugely against the format and believe its majorly selfish to expect fans to travel boarder to boarder. Its difficult enough, but week in week out fans are going to find it financially impossible to do. It also eradicates the champions league, a competition with so much history and charm. It will kill the game we have all known to love, i can absolutely assure you all of that. Only one winner here, and its the corporate's.

{Ed025's Note - im on the same page sammy..


15.) 07 Feb 2019 12:41:13
LoweLFC, good for you that you get to go regularly. There’s 50 odd thousand seats in Anfield, there are millions of Liverpool fans. We can’t all go every week.

I’m neither for nor against this breakaway, but to say fans who are privileged enough to attend regularly are more important that other fans is ridiculous. If you stop going someone else will just take your seat. The club is what it is today because we have millions of fans. We would be no where near top of the league without all those fans pumping money into the club through shirt sales/ sky subscriptions etc.


16.) 07 Feb 2019 12:52:37
This is what I was saying earlier. I really don’t know anyone who thinks this is a good idea and the majority will just stop watching football if it happens.
I love Liverpool Football Club as did my Dad, grandad and great grandad. It’s in my blood.
If however, they move to a European Superleague then as far as I’m concerned they have ceased to exist as the club I love and support. I will therefore have no interest in anything they do. Football is about the local rivalries, the cold Tuesday nights in Stoke, the fans travelling down the M6 in coaches etc.
Take that away and there’s just no meaning for me. It would feel like some foreign franchise has stolen our badge. Nothing more.

{Ed025's Note - your dead right bobby..


17.) 07 Feb 2019 12:54:16
I'm with Ed025 and Ron on this 100%. I'm not against change, but this is not the answer in my opinion. And Lowell, if you don't think English football clubs are not franchises like US teams, I'd like to know what you consider Man U and Man City.


18.) 07 Feb 2019 13:17:42
King Kenny 92 - I live in the Far East, and have been to Anfield no more than 3 times in my whole life. I do have a small number of family members in Liverpool but that’s as close as my connection to the city goes.
There is a cat in hell’s chance I’d ever complain about not being able to watch Liverpool regularly in the flesh, however.
I am with Bobby on this, a Super League Liverpool is NOT the Liverpool that fans identify with, and it wouldn’t mean anything.


19.) 07 Feb 2019 13:18:36
American owners, a german manager, a multicultural squad, headquarters in London and at least 90% of the fans living outside of Liverpool. there's not much that's Liverpudlian about the club in the modern era.
Maybe if we join the breakaway league they could change the club name to the Pan-Euro Tigers or some marketable brand, and we could all go back to supporting our local clubs again.


20.) 07 Feb 2019 14:24:33
Exactly my point KK. A lot of fans who are able to attend regularly are so short sighted because the think they care for the club more than the people (who in actual fact contribute more to the coffers as a whole) that can only get to see the team they love from afar.

With all due respect, WW, you are perfectly entitled to sit in your comfy arm chair as well, no one is dragging you to the matches. You go because you can. I cannot. You don’t earn respect simply because you have been fortunate enough to be able to keep renewing a ticket for 50 years. It seems to me that no fan holds themselves in such reverence as the one that stands on the terraces every week through their own volition.

It makes me laugh when people say, “I don’t want to see Real and Barcelona every week”. They forget that they would actually only play them twice a season anyway (there will be 20 or so other teams) . They have become figure heads for neigh saying fans who see those two as the epitome of football evil. Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea etc have benefitted in exactly the same way since the inception of the Premier League, incase you have conveniently forgotten.

Personally, I think it would be good for English football. League reform would be inevitable and a more even playing field could become established without the huge bucks just helping out the very top, if done correctly.

People need to get their head out of the sand and accept that change is coming. It will be good. Be optimistic, maybe you won’t be able to attend every match, but so what? You’ll still go to enough, if you want to, and assuming you have a right to is selfish in itself anyway. I know this message will never resonate with some, but you will end up being the grumpy ones left behind while the rest of us enjoy what will, no doubt, end being a wonderful sporting spectacle.


21.) 07 Feb 2019 14:26:45
I can see it now. The year 2030. It's the 3rd day of the European Super League. The games are Liverpool-Inter, Barcelona-Dortmund, Lyon-Besiktas, and others. The pitches are lined with high sensitivity sensors along the border to detect all offsides (linesmen have been dispensed with) . All pitches are now identical in size. All players wear a headband (with sensors), sensor lined kits, and of course the orange colored football is sensor lined too. The pitches are temperature controlled as is the entire stadium. Robots deliver food and refreshments throughout the match. Season tickets have been abolished and are sold E-bay style in an auction format, online. FIFA President Mario Balotelli has recently tabled a proposal to have the next World Cup played in a Space Habitation Colony located half way between the Earth and the Moon.

It's not so far away from now 😉. If you don't watch or join, someone else will! .

{Ed033's Note - Won't all the players be A.I. robots who will be paid the Universal Basic Income?


22.) 07 Feb 2019 14:52:11
Only if the viewing population are robots too, Ed033 😉.

{Ed033's Note - Yes, if they have A.I. robots that can perform work, why would they need humans at all.


23.) 07 Feb 2019 15:30:23
I’ll be watching Kabaddi 👍.


24.) 07 Feb 2019 13:34:56
I think Ron Keague has expressed my concerns about a Breakaway League far better than I could have done. The money will keep the competition going for as long as it wants, but the atmosphere in the stadiums and the lack of any competition beyond "who wins the league" would make it seem fairly pointless watching it, to me anyway.

{Ed002's Note - It is a natural progression - you want Liverpool to stay in the stoneage fine. It seems to be only Liverpool fans who see a problem with atmosphere but nobody is explaining what this problem is. It is certainly not going to be the lack of away fans.}


25.) 07 Feb 2019 15:49:27
Great, Ron. I need someone to explain the sport to me. 😵.


26.) 07 Feb 2019 16:29:20
The problem is you are taking everything the club has ever stood for and throwing it in the bin. As a club we’ve had amazing times with the people and very sad times with the people. But we’ve all got through it together all have a common bond in that we are Liverpool FC and we’ll never walk alone.
This European League destroys that. It takes the club away from the people who have been supporting and watching for generations. Whether you are in the terraces or your arm chair it really doesn’t matter. If Liverpool FC were to sign up for this it would be them saying that money is more important than the fans who have made the Liverpool family what it is.
I for one could not go along with that and I’d wash my hands of it. That is not what my great grandad signed up for 120 years ago and it’s not what generations of others have signed up for since.
Call it progress if you want but i think it’s you that is short sighted here if that’s your stance. It’s greed. Nothing more, nothing less.
If they gave me a choice between European Superleague or non league I’d go non league every time. I’ve got absolutely no interest in watching us play in a meaningless league against meaningless teams in a meaningless atmosphere in the pursuit of money.


27.) 07 Feb 2019 16:55:03
You put forward a compelling argument, BB. My point though is why not both? There are things in the world that I struggle with on a daily basis and there are various things that I think that every single one of us would be better off without. The trouble is, these things can not be changed. We can hark after the days gone by where life was simpler and less obviously corruptable, but that accomplishes nothing. The choice is to make the best of what you have available. I can’t really quite hit upon what i’m trying to say but how about this?

Liverpool FC is your child. You loved, cared for and nurtured them from years and finally the time has come where it has out grown it’s home town. It has been a local success but has received an offer too good to refuse to become bigger and better somewhere abroad. You know you aren’t going to see them as much but you wouldn’t stand in the way of their success. It may sound a bit too Disney but as football fans are over emotional beasts anyway, it seems kinda fitting.

The club is owned by business people who would be stupid not to go for an offer to increase their bank balance, if possible. You can still (and probably will, even if you don't want to admit it) enjoy watching Liverpool and all it brings, but the setting will be different, that is all. How many thousands go to the European away games every season. It’s only a few more matches.

If you prefer non league over the other, why not just do it as well?

{Ed025's Note - nah mate you would be losing your roots, your child would turn into a spoiled brat who thinks he is better than the rest of the family, you can never outgrow your friends and family, some things are more important than money..


28.) 07 Feb 2019 17:19:14
Redinthewrongway, I go because I want to not because I can. And I want to because LFC is in my blood since childhood and I want to be there, week in, week out, through the exceptional good times and the not so good, offering my vocal support to the team. I do think that is deserving of respect actually not the contempt in which you apparently hold me and others like me.


29.) 07 Feb 2019 17:34:08
Red i get what you are saying but this is more like my child basically taking all my money and emotional support over 120 years then kicking me in the balls and saying he’s found shinier, richer parents in Europe and he couldn’t care less whether he ever sees me again or not.
Some football clubs are ingrained into the local society and have been a huge part of the local families for generations. Ed2 seems a money man, not a football man hence his point of view but for me the pride I feel for my club and the connection I have with it is immense and I’m completely emotionally invested in it and it’s history.
This would be the club basically saying thanks mate, we know you and thousands of others have been with us for generations but we’re off. We don’t particularly care if you come with us we’ve got shiny new, richer fans outside of Liverpool who we can cosy up to.
It’s not about the cost, I’m in a fortunate position where I could still go but I would definitely choose not to. It would be Liverpool FC by name only and not the club I’ve known for all of my life.


30.) 07 Feb 2019 17:36:18
Not suggesting we stay in the stone age ed, i know it's coming and there's not much will stand in it's way, i just don't see it as being as enjoyable as leagues with history, rivalries and promotion and relegation.

{Ed002's Note - Right now Liverpool are not involved so maybe it will all be fine for you.}


31.) 07 Feb 2019 17:55:13
Could you not have just said that to start with Ed? You could’ve saved me a lot of time and effort! Lol ;-D.


32.) 07 Feb 2019 19:07:38
Once your team is out of the running for the “league” it’ll be the same as watching pre-season friendlies. 😴

No problem with Liverpool being “in the stoneage” 😎.


33.) 07 Feb 2019 20:44:17
I don’t hold you or any other Liverpool fan in contempt, WW. I just don’t think you deserve the respect you think you do for doing your hobby and what makes you happy. Believe it or not, because from the sounds of things i’m not worthy because i’m not from the city or local area, I doubt you care any more than I do about the fortunes of the club. Do you not realise you’re the lucky one? You don’t have a duty, hardship or obligation to turn up. Of course you go because you can, the wanting is a given. I want to go, but I can’t. There is a big difference.

Were I fortunate enough to be in your shoes | may say the same as you but from my point and the majority of people complaining about the proposal it would purely be from a selfish standpoint. You can all start your own club if you like, or not turn up at Anfield to encourage the club to regress to the level you all desire. Oh wait, 50000 others would just turn up in your place. It’s a monster you all part created and now you have to deal with it.


34.) 07 Feb 2019 22:01:51
We'd better hurry up and win the Premier league before there isn't one left lol.

{Ed025's Note - nice one razor..


35.) 07 Feb 2019 22:11:11
Redinthewrongway, your last post demonstrates to me that you do not actually understand what it means to be a true Liverpool supporter, whether you are from Liverpool or anywhere else in the world. You just don’t seem to get the deep commitment I and tens of thousands like me have to being present when Liverpool play, in fact you dismiss it as a hobby. I respect all true Liverpool supporters - in fact, all true football supporters - but I actually feel sorry for you.


36.) 08 Feb 2019 08:40:15
I understand all the emotion and angst over here, but change is inevitable! Things evolve over time, always have and always will. Nothing is static, and in fact, the pace of change is becoming faster and faster.

I don't suggest for one moment that anyone should shelve their emotions, close their eyes and follow the trends and changes blindly. I'm simply saying that adapting and understanding the changes, that will surely come, will go a long way in keeping your sanity and emotional well being, intact.


37.) 08 Feb 2019 09:44:52
Firstly, Hobby - noun “an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure. ”

Don’t get all sanctimonious or high and mighty because you feel an emotional connection to it. You don’t get paid for it, you do it in leisure time and if you don't do it for pleasure then why bother? That is a hobby in its purest form, albeit a long standing one, but a hobby nonetheless.

Secondly, you don't get to decide who is a true fan or what constitutes a true fan. Liverpool has been my club since I was 5 with no family persuasion, or knowledge of past successes. I stumbled on it and haven’t looked back since. I too devote my spare time to not missing matches, trawling for Liverpool news etc. Just because you do it differently and are FORTUNATE enough to go to every match (I highlighted it because those decades have clearly blurred the lines between privilege, obligation, and ability) does not mean you are the arbiter of fandom. A true fan does not have to agree with everybody else and a true fan (if it came to it) would not put themselves ahead of the club.

Lastly, my whole argument is not that a breakaway league would be the best outcome, but that it could be. The problem with humanity nowadays (and probably forever) is that everybody is so quick to deal in absolutes. “The breakaway will be the death of football”, “We’ll all be doomed from brexit” etc, that no one seems to be able to see the what ifs or the positives. People are so quick to dismiss things that are often inevitable but that could be really good, if only they could try not to whine like piglet about it. For the record, I neither agree or disagree with Britain leaving the EU and I neither agree nor disagree with a breakaway league. People like the cold comfort of monotony, but it doesn’t mean that change is always going to be bad.


38.) 08 Feb 2019 14:45:27
Redinthewrongway, that’s a very long and articulate post with some fine words but it does not convince me at all. How about we each just continue to support Liverpool in our own way.


 

 

26 Aug 2018 10:44:21
Looks like Origi move to Dortmund is dead in the water now that they have signed Alcacer from Barcelona on a loan to bu deal. looks like he was priced out of it.

Redplanet

1.) 27 Aug 2018 12:04:58
Dortmund knew the price and didn’t meet it.


 

 

10 Jan 2018 11:30:44
RIP Tommy Lawrence, a true Liverpool legend who I spent many enjoyable, and sometimes amusing, Saturday afternnons watching from The Kop in the 1960s.
Priceless recently when a BBC journalist unknowingly approached him outside Anfield before the derby and asked him if he remembered the 1967 derby and he replied "Yes, I remember it, I played in it I was the Liverpool goalkeeper".

Redplanet

1.) 10 Jan 2018 12:18:15
haha that sounds class - does anyone have a link to the video, I can't seem to find it on Youtube.


2.) 10 Jan 2018 12:19:51
Scrap my last message I managed to find the video - Its on the BBC website.


 

 

06 Jan 2018 10:53:17
Will Jurgen be offering tours around VVD in the same way that Bill Shankly did with big Ron Yeates?

Redplanet

1.) 06 Jan 2018 14:46:53
Or maybe even Ron Yeats.


 

 

 

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15 Feb 2019 10:28:50
I remember seeing Nat Phillips play alongside Joe Gomez in the U23s. While he was not as quick as Joe he was more dominant in the air, was comfortable on the pall and ha a decent range of passing. It would be a shame if he doesn't get an opportunity to show how he would fare at a higher level.

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08 Feb 2019 15:24:39
Clearly it does go beyond football but that does not mean that football clubs and supporters can escape responsibility for addressing it where they can.

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22 Mar 2018 10:50:16
I've been supporting LFC since they were battling it out with Leeds in the second division and I certainly don;t feel that Waro speaks for me or a lot of the fans I know. It's easy to isolate yourself with a group who confirm each others biased view of our club, past present and future but don't assume you represent views other than your own.

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05 Feb 2018 22:01:06
Late great Jimmy Armfield nobody to touch him and probably never will be.

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26 Jan 2018 21:03:41
So I guess dat's dat.

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17 Jan 2018 10:45:23
I watch a lot of Rugby Union and the VAR is not the answer to all controversial questions. I think it can be a great aid to getting to the right decisions but slow motion often puts a different perspective on incidents, especially collisons, that does not necessarily help with a resolution. Deliberate knock ons, perhaps equivalent to hand ball, is a particularly trick area.

Redplanet