Liverpool Rumours Archive February 25 2018

25 Feb 2018 14:31:12
Finally Liverpool to replace Alonso!
Jorginho is excellent. Get him Klopp! His passings are the best in Europe!

25 Feb 2018 15:11:44
I hope we get him, he's bloody brilliant, let's wait and see, when I hear these kind of rumours I just want to see if it happens or not, roll on the summer.

25 Feb 2018 21:56:10
Let's hope he is as good as we all assume from TV/ YouTube. Often players come over from the Italian leagues and can't adapt.

25 Feb 2018 22:51:08
Yeah Brommers, like that Salah fella has been terrible hasn’t he.

26 Feb 2018 00:50:22
Got good vision for when teams sit deep against us.
Good spot Jürgen 👍.

26 Feb 2018 00:54:19
Frankly, for every Salah there are 5 Aquilani’s mate.

26 Feb 2018 03:50:36
Last i heard Ed002 was saying that ManU were after Jorginho (I think it fell through on last day of recent transfer period) . So Im not holding my breath on this one.

26 Feb 2018 09:42:51
Great player Harry, but we do not want him sat in front of the defence. He gets over run way too easily. Watch some of Napoli's Champions league game with him involved. Particularly the 2-4 defeat against Man City where he played as a lone DM in a 3 man midfield. City ripped him to shreds and he was embarrassing.

Jorginho needs a solid DM alongside him because he roams forward a lot and if you took that freedom away from him, you'd be wasting his best attributes; passing, dribbling and creativity.

He's nothing like Alonso though, other than the fact he can hit a pretty raking diagonal pass.

26 Feb 2018 10:02:07
Unfortunately JK won’t be signing a DM. And unless you consider Henderson to be one (I don’t) then we won’t be laying with one next season.

It’s not how JK sets up his teams.

We’ve already signed Navy K. If we’re looking at Jorginho too then it shows JK doesn’t want a DM.

26 Feb 2018 12:01:39
Agree Keith. Jorginho is the archetypal Deep Lying Playmaker. He is never a Defensive Midfielder though. He is too offensively minded and not selfless enough to sacrifice his natural game like Henderson does. I do really like Jorginho though and i would not be against signing him. If Klopp is a world class manager, he will find a way to fit Jorginho, Keita and Henderson into the same team.

Whenever Napoli face a team who attack with numbers though, they sacrifice Jorginho for Diawara which says it all to me. Jorginho can't protect his defence against top opposition, and Napoli have a much better defence than we do!

However, give Jorginho freedom like PSG sometimes do with Veratti in a deeper role, and he can dismantle teams with his sublime vision and technical ability. We tried a deep lying playmaker who couldn't defend with Gerrard and it cost us a league title in the end as we conceded 50 goals and he fell over 🤦🏻 it doesn't work in the Premier League. For a midfielder to contribute defensively they need tenacity or defensive awareness and physicality or energy. Either a Kante type with the awareness and energy, or a Fernandinho type with the tenacity and physicality. Jorginho has energy but utilises it more to influence the game offensively. He's not going to help out defensively in the Premier league in my opinion. In fact he'd protect the defence far less than even Henderson or Can do. Hendo has the energy and awareness, and Can has the tenacity and physicality.

There was a big discussion about this not long ago but i can't remember where. It was either an Italian football expert or an ex-pro i think, and they explained the logic behind why Pirlo plays deeper even though he can't defend. Basically, the DM area of the pitch is where a midfield player has the most time and space. So it became common in Italian football to put your best passer there where they would have more time to pick out a runner and find them with a long range pass, without being pressurised or constantly fouled. That is why Jorginho plays deep; because he is the best passer at Napoli by far. Not because he can even remotely protect the defence. He might as well have not been there when Man City had the ball. They were strolling straight through him.

However, I'd rather have Jorginho than any of Milner, Wijnaldum or Lallana in one of the more offensive midfield roles in our system. I think he'd be able to completely control the play there without having to worry about covering the centre backs. He can also unlock a deep defence because the weight on his through balls is just inch perfect. Great player but I'd fear for us if he played in front of our shoddy backline.

25 Feb 2018 08:05:27
Hi Ed's Good day,

Is Jorginho one of the targets for replacing emre as being reported by the times.

{Ed001's Note - he is one of many under consideration, though Napoli are not looking to let him move on.}

25 Feb 2018 08:30:13
Ed would it be fair to say we are definitely looking at another CM even with Keita arriving?

{Ed001's Note - yes.}

25 Feb 2018 08:35:27
Perfect signing if we can make it happen. The question is whether Jorginho and Keita will be enough to offer adequate protection to our defense. Jorginho's got Diawara covering for him at Napoli so will he get the same from Kieta who likes to drive forwards at every chance? I hope Klopp gets the balance right.

25 Feb 2018 09:11:39
Ed’s would like to know about your view on Jorginho as far as I seen him he looks a proper passer of the ball and technically sound maybe more of a xabi alonso style of player would be nice to hear your view of him.

{Ed001's Note - not seen enough of him really to get a full view but he never looked like a Alonso type to me. He was much more dynamic than Xabi, more forward movement from him.}

25 Feb 2018 10:23:11
According to ed002, Arsenal have a sustained interest in him, Manchester United as well because Mourinho likes him but he wouldn't be first choice for them plus Juventus who walked away after discussions probably due to the money asked of them. Hopefully we really are interested because i think we could compete for his signing as long as PSG or Real Madrid don't come calling.

25 Feb 2018 10:43:10
I’d love to see a Torreira Jorginho Keita midfield! Perfect mixture of tenacity, technique, energy and passion. Torreira and Jorginho would give us the Xabi-Mascher combo with Keita able to maraud like Stevie.

25 Feb 2018 11:16:51
Can was really good yesterday. Wish he'd stay. He's only going to get better.

25 Feb 2018 12:19:26
I can’t help but think that Liverpool and Klopp don’t suit him or his game 100% and he’s going to go to Juventus and become a top player within his first season. Looks like we will wait and see.

25 Feb 2018 12:59:13
Cant understand the Can thing, we're on the verge of something while Juve seem to be regressing. Fair enough if he wasnt playing but since he's joined he's been an at least a 40 games a season player. Can gets stick but people have to remember he's been a starter for one of the biggest teams in the toughest league since he was twenty. He makes mistakes but he's basically been learning on the job since he joined only for us to lose him now after he's gained the experience? Surely whatever issue there is can be sorted because it would be a shame to lose a player who's coming into his best years and always puts in a shift for the team.

25 Feb 2018 13:35:03
Who else is on the list do you know ed002? What can I search to find it if it's been mentioned?

{Ed001's Note - what list?}

25 Feb 2018 13:57:01
Can isn't good enough, big emre.

He's 24, he's played 150+ times for us and he's still hugely inconsistent, patchy positionally and is routinely bypassed by opposition midfielders. Now, I don't expect players to be the finished article at 24, but if they've been in the first team since they were 20 I expect them to show a significant improvement from then. I don't think Can has. He should be well used to playing for one of the biggest clubs in the toughest league and able to deal with it by now.

He's not a young, rough diamond anymore, he's just an inconsistent player. Given that Gini disappears regularly too, and Milner and Ox aren't really central midfielders (although they are able to make it work sometimes just through sheer work rate) I don't think it's at all surprising that we're looking for another central midfielder apart from Keita. If it was up to me, I'd replace every center mid at the club apart from Henderson.

25 Feb 2018 14:54:15
Exactly something red, he's played 160 games and just turned 24.Where De Bruyne or Salah the finished article when they were judged too soon by Chelsea. The alternative is to go buying players that look great on you-tube playing in Mickey Mouse leagues like Xkaka or Pogba. Were too harsh on our own players sometimes, Can has produced some superb performances for us and at his age will only get better, at his age the likes of Kante and Matic were unknowns to most on this site.

25 Feb 2018 14:43:48
Indian

You are wrong! Diwara doesn’t play alongside him. Jorginho is a first class holding mid who play alongside Allan and Hamsik in the midfield three. He is the carbon copy of Alonso. Positionally excellent and his passings are way beyond words.

25 Feb 2018 14:50:04
Fair assessment.

Emre Can is very very lucky to get these many games and still can't cement a place.

Cheers.

25 Feb 2018 16:08:13
Sorry t was ed001 who said he is one of a few under consideration, who are the others do you know?

{Ed001's Note - there are loads right now, there are months to whittle it down and pick a few to target yet.}

25 Feb 2018 16:22:02
Asking whether de Bruyne and Salah were the finished article at Chelsea is completely pointless since I said I don't expect Can to be the finished article. I just expect him to have improved quite a bit since he was 20/ 21. Which he hasn't in my opinion.

And trying to say that Can at this point in his career is comparable to Matic (first Chelsea career), Salah and de Bruyne when they left Chelsea is wide of the mark. They aren't in the same boat at all. Chelsea didn't give them a whole lot of chances. 30 odd appearances between the three, and they were younger than Can is now - all leaving Chelsea on loan, eventually to be permanent, at 21 or 22 years of age. When they did play regularly after leaving, they showed how good they were pretty quickly.

Can on the other hand has been a first team regular here for four years, three of them in central midfield. So he's had his chances at Liverpool. Lots of them. If he was going to be anywhere near their level, he'd have shown a decent chunk of quality by now, but he hasn't. We get flashes. A quality goal or through ball here and there, but very few consistent performances over 90 minutes and certainly no consistent run of form. If he was good enough, we'd have seen more of it by now.

By comparison, after three seasons of regular first team football in Germany, de Bruyne had established himself as one of the brightest prospects in Europe and commanded a £55m fee - and this was just before the TV deal that let's clubs play £40m and £50m for non-players like Sigurdsson and Walker. And he was 24. The same age Can is now. Salah is only a year older than Can, with significantly less Premier League experience, and yet he's miles ahead of him.

Want an easier yardstick? Lucas. Joined Liverpool at 19/ 20 like Can, got stick like Can, but at 24 he was Liverpool's player of the season and looking like one of the best center mids in the League until he did his cruciate. Can's nowhere near the level Lucas was at his age. And as for Kante, since you mentioned him, he just slipped under the radar. The quality was probably always there as shown by how he was instantly the best midfielder in the PL when he joined Leicester (at 24 years old too, btw) . You can hardly say that Can is slipping under the radar when we're watching him every week.

25 Feb 2018 16:54:56
Im not comparing Can to De Bruyne (best player in europe this year) or Salah (31 goals from wing forward) as players, im comparing them in the typical impatience from supporters. No matter what you say it makes absolutely Zero sense to lose a player, who in this crazy market is worth upwards of £50m for free this year. For everyone that says we need this and we need that as if its Fifa 2018 what you need to realise is that Klopp is not going to buy 6 or 7 starters every year. He's not going to buy 3 new starting midfielders this summer so why not hope Can signs on, add Keita and then hopefully we might add a more attacking player like Ceballos to replace Coutinho. if Can leaves for Serie A this summer he will go on to look better than these players he have wet dreams about signing on you-tube.

25 Feb 2018 17:11:12
As for the leiva and Kante arguments you casually say Lucas, who as a liverpool supporter i always supported and hope would excel was superior than Can yet Can has scored one less goal this season than Leiva did in a decade at the reds. i liked Lucas, great attitude and head for the game but people look at his time through pure red tinted glasses yet put a player who could hit double figures in one season in the same position down. As for Kante, again great player but let's call a spade a spade, he was older than Can is now by the time even a midtable club would take a chance on him whereas Emre has had the eyes of the world on him since he was a kid.

{Ed025's Note - BE, never ever class can or leiva in the same bracket as kante mate you get 10 leiva,s and 20 can,s for a kante..

25 Feb 2018 17:28:01
Honestly ed025,had you ever heard of Kante before he signed for Leicester?

{Ed025's Note - yes i had mate, hes a great player and the main reason why both leicester and chelsea both won the league, im afraid you cant say the same or are ever likely to say about the other 2..

25 Feb 2018 17:51:06
Again im not comparing Kante to Can, as a pure defensive midfielder Kante would get into just about any team in world football, what im saying is that you, as someone that knew who he was before he signed for Leicester would be in the minority. i for one wouldn't have known him, i stopped watching these crap leagues when puberty hit! the fact is though that by the time Kante came to england Can has spent 4 seasons under the scrutiny of one of the biggest and self abusing fanbases in the world. Also my point is if Liverpool fans think were going to have the best players in every position there living in cloud cuckoo land, what we have to do is mould a team based on what the manager wants from players on and off the field. Again, Emre Can leaving for free this year makes zero sense.

25 Feb 2018 18:53:57
Ed 25 is absolutely right.

Can is 《《 Leiva who himself is 《《《 Kante type players.

Even Can himself will be embrassed to see him getting compared against De Buryne and Salah.

Cheers.

25 Feb 2018 19:40:10
Ed 025 was not right, was never being compared to them players but at this stage no point arguing. Liverpool supporters seem to think were going to be able to go out and buy the 5 or 6 STARTING players were going to need while the likes of Can leaves on a free! good luck with that.

25 Feb 2018 19:59:45
Big emre I get what your trying to say and agree. At 24, he is still young and is i. proving every season.
I would love him to stay, but it seems unlikely.

26 Feb 2018 00:34:38
I don’t get this.

We’re not selling him, he wants to go. What do you want the club to do? Chain him to the goal post?

He wants to go, he’s fulfilled his contract, the club and fans should respect his wishes.

He’s not a £50m player, come on that’s ridiculous.
In order for the club to progress you have to have movement of players. This is no big deal.

26 Feb 2018 17:14:17
emre starts a lot of games for someone who isn't good enough to start lots of games.

I agree with BE in the sense that fans often write off a player based on the same old linear development path that all fans expect players to take. you know, come off the bench, start next match, start a few more matches, now you're world class. obviously that is tongue in cheek, but I think what BE is getting at is that the development curve for all players isn't the same. and that we should be measuring a young player more on what he has in his locker and can build on rather than continuously pointing out his flaws as a means for him to improve.

Player development is moving more strengths based and their performance is bigger than individual talent and skill. he needs to be in the right environment, position, partnered with the right team mates, then throw in the manager, city, club vision etc etc.

I would love for Emre to stay. he is a beast of a midfielder who can be a great foil alongside Keita and whoever else plays that deeper CM position. he gets bypassed a lot, but so does gini, henderson, and milner. they're more experienced than he, so what is their excuse!? anyways, I'm with you Big Emre, and the real Emre, hope you hang around for years and fill the bags of potential you have mate!