Liverpool banter 7

12 Apr 2024 10:36:44
Last night had been coming. I think you've got to go back to mid Feb and the back to back 4-1 wins over Luton and Brentford to find a match where we looked really convincing. Since then we've been limping along, still winning most of our matches but scraping through unconvincingly in my opinion. A bit fortunate to get past Brighton 2-1 at home. Really unimpressive and leaving it late against Sheff Utd (worst team in the league) at home. Scraping a point with a late equaliser against an absymal Manchester Utd.

If last night doesn't act as the reset to ignite a change for the rest of the season, I think it will be over pretty soon. Fortunately, our next match is arguably the "easiest" of our remaining seven league matches so provides an opportunity to change course and start a charge. If we don't turn up and win with a convincing performance on Sunday against Palace, sadly I think it will be the beginning of the end.

Klopp faces some tricky decisions now. Many players have dropped away at the same time. Gomez is looking more like the old Gomez who always made me nervous. Endo has had a couple of consecutive shockers. Szoboszlai looks a million miles from the player we saw at the start of the season. Salah has been largely anonymous for the last three matches. Critical individual errors are creeping in (Quansah, Kelleher and Szoboszlai all leading to goals in the last two matches) . So the fact we have players returning from injury is timely. However, not many players can come straight back in and be sharp and at their best straight away. Jones last night didn't look sharp and that's fair after a long break. Trent has historically needed several matches to get up and running. We don't have that luxury. Jota actually looked pretty sharp when he came on and he is the one who I think can make an impact straight away. And the other small positive from last night was that Gakpo was looking better again.

12 Apr 2024 11:00:46
I thought Jota looked really sloppy when he came on to be honest.
I think the injury crisis has finally caught up with us though, too many look either knackered from playing too much and not being rotated or slow because they are coming back from injury.
Hopefully we discover a bit of form in the next one and the blip is short lived.

12 Apr 2024 11:07:41
What a low point last nights game was. You can’t even single out one player as they all were collectively bad, maybe besides Gakpo who was okay at best. In regards to Klopp. He has been making some bizarre decisions of late. I and a number of other said before on here that going strong in a dead rubber against Sparta when we had United a few days later was baffling from Klopp. But it’s even more baffling now that in a quarter final tie he has fielded a weakened side. I mean, I would love to know his thought process behind that. Because to me it stinks of either incompetence or arrogance. I’m going with the latter, in that Klopp thought we had won the game before it had been played. Which amongst other things explains our poor and quite frankly inexplicable first half performances for most of this season.

That mentality starts from the manager and filters through to the players. But the players have to also take responsibility, because there is a thing called pride and ownership, which has been lacking of late. What also looked worrying from last night was the fact Klopp appeared lost on the side lines and completely out of any ideas on how to turn the game around. We were out smarted tactically, which is not the first time us saying that this season. And those second half late winners that have been masking a lot, weren’t there to save us. Again, whilst many were shouting “mentality monsters” after those late winning performances this season. Many of us were saying that playing poorly and relying on individual moments to save us was not sustainable and the results don’t really tell the full picture.

Another thing I have noticed and could be wrong is how the players appear. Since Klopp announced he was leaving there has been a shift in energy from the players and it’s seemingly noticeable. I keep hearing we are just exhausted and using that as an excuse. What about Arsenal and City? Have they not played just as many games? The players look disinterested and unmotivated is what it is, and that is really concerning. It can’t be coincidence it coincided with Klopp announcing he is leaving a few months back. Late second half winners masked it but it has been evident. It’s almost like Klopp doesn’t hold that fear factor anymore. When you’re in a job and you’re either leaving or you know the manager is going. Naturally you lose some drive. But the number of players that appear to have done that and the level in which it appears to have happened is alarming. Some of the players are probably thinking - I worked so hard and have the trust of this manager and now he is upping sticks and leaving and I have to win the trust of a new manager who might ship me out as soon as he arrives.

Don’t know what the right answer is in when Klopp should have announced his departure. Maybe should have gone last summer instead of announcing in January of all times. However, even prior to his announcement we hadn’t been playing well. But the announcement completely messed up any type of momentum we did or could have had in the title run in. Dare I say it, but it’s almost like some of the players ain’t really listening to him anymore and that’s a major component of Klopp’s success. Now, is it so us to go to Atalanta and out of nowhere beat them 4-0. The answer would be yes. But is it so us to do that then get beaten a few days later in the league against Fulham. The answer would also be yes. So sad to see us finishing this season like this and if we only win the Carabao Cup, this season has been a disaster!

12 Apr 2024 11:14:14
I thought Jota looked sharp last night.

He misplaced one sloppy pass into touch but he was one of few who seemed to have energy.

12 Apr 2024 11:20:12
I personally don't get this 'players looked knackered' remark. Yes, they have layed a lot football, but so have all the other top teams in Europe. We also have probably one of, if not the, strongest squads in terms of depth. Players have been rotated and rested throughout the season as well. Performances last night can't be put down to tiredness when most of the team haven't been regular starters.
It was just shambolic, probably the worst performance I have seen in a very long time. How tsimikas is still an LFC player I don't know. The first few minutes he was in acres of space and put a cross in that sailed over everyone and went out for a goal kick. I knew then it was going to be a long night!

{Ed001's Note - that moment set the tone of the night for me.}

12 Apr 2024 11:33:58
I don't think this season will be a disaster no matter what happens. Champions league football is all bug secured, we won a cup and we brought some talented players into the club and promoted some very important youth players. It would not be a fairytale ending but still a good season in my eyes from where we were last season.

That said, these Liverpool players and coaching staff only no one way. The hard way. We're not done yet.

Like a wise genius posted on the match posts

"Warriiiooors, come out to play"

12 Apr 2024 11:35:16
I do wonder whether the last 5/ 6 fixtures being very tactical clashes have also contributed to the loss of form.

The games against City, Brighton, United x2 and now Atalanta have been against teams where we have had to adjust the way we play.

Have we overthinked (is that a word? ) our way out of form?

12 Apr 2024 11:50:18
It was a very bad night no denying that but it doesn’t happen often so let’s not forget how far Klopp has brought us
Up the pool.

12 Apr 2024 12:09:08
@Coulred. Two things can be true. He will go down as a legend regardless. There is no two ways about it. But, Klopp has made a lot of blunders this season and is not above criticism. Again, the players have to take responsibility in that as well, not just Klopp. Despite all that that we still have time to turn it around by beating Atalanta in the second tie and winning the league.

One things for sure is that we cannot let the season fizzle out on a whimper with just the Carabao Cup. Many laughed at United for having a similar season not long ago and it could happen to us. Despite Klopp annoying me a lot of late with a number of bizarre decisions, he still deserves the best send off possible for all he has done for us. And winning the league and Europa would be the perfect way to do that.

12 Apr 2024 12:51:19
These lot get a new manager they are in for a shock, kostas and gomez straight out the door for me, had enough of Joe he's bang average. Reminds me of Phil jones. Gravenberch was a bad signing. And give Trent the captaincy or even salah but not virg.

12 Apr 2024 14:19:40
That was as bad as it could get this season on a collective level. As Ed said, Tsimikas’s wayward play set the tone from the off. Individual mistakes all over the shop, poor decision making, etc. You name it, it was on show. For me, no point singling out this or that player. It was what the French call, a “Collective Wreckage” from top to bottom. I’ve already moved on.

12 Apr 2024 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - BarnetNige81 has posted a new article entitled, Current thoughts on Chelsea FC

11 Apr 2024 21:56:57
Ed01 what do you make of klopps starting line up. was it a case of him listening to medical dept regarding players being tired or was he prioritising the league over the europa. for me he should of went with strongest 11 and killed the game an then rest players if needs be. i really hope he didn go with a weaker team so we're fresher for league game. winning games at this stage keeps momentum and players won't feel tired once their winning. love to know what you made of that team tonight ed01.

{Ed001's Note - it was a mistake. A bad mistake. He went with a weaker team, but worse, he got the tactics wrong. Atalanta's weakness is the flanks, but we stuck with an inverted full-back leaving no width on the right. That allowed their wide man on the right to stay forward and keep Konate from being able to mark the two forwards they were playing. Which meant that Endo was forced to drop in centrally as Virgil was being dragged out wide to deal with de Ketelaere, who kept drifting out to their right. We either needed Gomez to sit and help out defensively or to play Bradley in order to push back their left-side as well.

Let's be honest, starting off with a weakened side like that, in the qtr-final of the Europa League, just gave them a boost and hope. It was a terrible decision, especially in terms of full-backs, who should have been Robbo and Bradley from the start.

The other one that annoys me is Klopp's constant rotation of the centre-backs alongside Virgil. He did it last season as well and the defence suffered, partly because of the constant change, but partly because of his bizarre choice to play the ball-playing centre-back (last season Matip, this season Quansah) in the Premier League and the physical, pacey centre-back in Europe. It should be the other way round. The Prem is fast and physical, better suited to having Konate as first choice. Europe is slower and gives a bit more time and space on the ball, so better suited to having Quansah/Matip starting.}

12 Apr 2024 05:15:19
Ed1, everything look awful last night. Wrong lineup, awful tactics, awful atmosphere from the fans, awful defending and again awful finishing from our forward line. Everything just went wrong yesterday. Probably the worst game under Klopp that I have ever experienced. To be honest, I'm worried with the way we are finishing our season.

{Ed001's Note - it does seem to be petering out.}

12 Apr 2024 07:00:57
I do think Sunday will be make or break for season. We need a really good performance and a good win scoring a few goals if we to get any momentum going into final straight. We look a team with absolutely no confidence and as if we running on empty and we've been poor for a while now. Up to last nite vvd+mac where playing really well and I think carrying us but when they had poor games there was just nothing.

12 Apr 2024 07:07:28
Someone wrote on Facebook : "A masterclass in defending and goalscoring. " Ed001 has given the reasons.
I have long been concerned about the defence. Essential.
After Sunday I was very concerned about our scoring ability. Man U are a very poor side and should have been easily beaten. Instead we laboured. Atalanta are just above mid table in Serie A. We lost at home.

12 Apr 2024 07:28:37
From the first couple of minutes I seen vvd jogging round and losing the ball I knew we were in trouble.
Jones looked so unfit, Tsimikas was absolutely terrible to the point were I would just sell him and let the young lads have a go. The attitude and decision making from the hole team was absolutely terrible. But klopps decision making was worst! We have bottled it big time. We have let Man U get to us over the last two game and we are now paying the price.

12 Apr 2024 08:53:33
Gomez was a problem yet again, since he played at 6 he started to believe his own media hype, he is a defender end of, he is good on the ball and a great defender, use him as such, him as an inveted full back isn't working, Konate looked like Sakho, Tsimkas should have been sold in the summer, taking Elliott off was ridiculous, McAllister looked knackered and should of been rested for Elliott to drop into mid, we look like we don't have the confidence to finish chances off, we hold the ball too long and miss Robertson, Trent and Bradley who can give and take a quick passes and make us flow, we got what deserved, we are due smashing someone 4/ 5/ 6 so it needs to be next week, this 2% nonsense left the stadium flat too, so the fans can take some blame, if they want to protest, on the 2nd minute turn your backs and not watch for 2 minutes. This was a failure all throughout the club for once.

12 Apr 2024 07:56:49
Ed1 - I was thinking back to that run of games prior to the last international break. When we went 1-1 vs City and missed an opportunity to nail them. Then we bizarrely went strong in 2nd leg vs Sparta before sputtering and getting knocked out of FA Cup vs ManU.

Feel like we lost some ascendancy in our season around that mark. And since the break we’ve been good in patches but seem to consistently start every game in reverse.

{Ed001's Note - that was the most bizarre moment of the season, the 2nd leg against Sparta. It is hard to even make an argument of any kind for the reasoning behind that team.}

12 Apr 2024 08:41:40
ED01. I'll always love Klopp for what he's done but he is a stubborn man. How he couldn't see last night the issue with our fullbacks I'll never know. Genuinely think we should play 3 at the back the rest of the season. Konate VVD and Gomez. We're too open in defence and that's killing us the most.

12 Apr 2024 09:11:09
Ed001 mate, the other thing I noticed, Klopp disir change to combat the one to one man marking!

12 Apr 2024 09:53:14
I think the Nunez miss was where the game turned, if he had finished what was a great chance then the game looks very different. It was a shocking miss.

{Ed001's Note - oh here we go, blame Nunez for missing when the whole team was playing terribly from the start and the crowd were non-existent. The game never turned, it was the same from start to finish.}

12 Apr 2024 09:55:21
Was in the stadium last night and whilst i agree it wasn't a great atmosphere it also wasn't the worst Anfield i have been too.

The atmosphere was pretty good up to and including kick off but then it went pretty dead when we started doing ticky tacka football around the pitch with zero penetration and looking players looking like they were in a local park effort wise.

The only time the the atmosphere rose in the first half was when the stadium broke into the Jota song which was strange as he was still sat on the bench at the time.

Player wise they cancelled Mac out and we were found massively wanting and in the 2nd half Kelleher had the ball and 10 outfield players were literally stood still.

Elliot i think was unlucky to go off at half time but I'm not sure what position he was playing in the first half because he spent more time in the middle of the park trying to make things happen than he did out on the right.

We could look at naming and shaming individuals but on the grand scheme of things every single one of the players was off the boil and for me their effort and intensity on the pitch had everything to do with the crowd.

From the players who played whilst not having great games i think only 4 stood out who looked like they really wanted it and that was Gakpo, Robbo, Elliot and Jota.

Only thing I'm going to criticize the match crowd for last night was the walk out with 7 minutes to go of the game. I've not seen that at Anfield ever in Klopps time.

But i suppose they can argue they spend their money on tickets so they can leave whenever they want.

Me and the boy stayed until the end and it felt like torture but you know what it was a massive come down to earth for me and some humble pie.

For the last few weeks I've been planning my trip to Dublin for a final we weren't even in at the time.

Last night i thought we'd turn up and roll them over and its quite clear so did the players.

Well done to Atlanta players and their fans who were brilliant before, during and after the game.

Sad thing is this could be Klopps last ever European night at Anfield and he's been let down by all.

12 Apr 2024 10:05:15
Spot on Ed. Dreadful night all round.

Hopefully everyone (crowd included) will be back on the right track on Sunday.

12 Apr 2024 10:29:22
A bad night all round. It could have been 0-5.

Atalanta bullied us all over the pitch with their man to man system.

Strange selection choices by Jurgen.

Perhaps this is a timely smack in the chops.

Up to Klopp now to re-light the fire. 7 more.

12 Apr 2024 11:46:40
Ed001, is that any different to the comment above about tsimikas over hitting a cross early on it setting the tone, I am saying the Nunez miss had a similar effect. All of our forwards are struggling with taking chances, that is literally a fact. They all have to take some responsibility for our downturn in form, along with the bizarre team selection from the manager.

{Ed001's Note - how could the Nunez miss change the course of the match if we are saying it was already set from the beginning? You are clearly missing the point. It changed nothing, we were terrible from the start, that was a symptom not a cause.}

12 Apr 2024 12:32:45
Yes, Nunez still looks raw at times with inconsistent finishing but look at his growth from a year ago.

His energy and dynamism gets him into positions and chances other players would not get anywhere near. He's a disruptor and creates space. A tremendous player with huge potential.

Playing with a more natural finisher like Jota or maybe with Salah more centrally and Szoboszlai / Bradley providing width would be interesting.

I think Gakpo is playing well and should start against Palace. Great touch and links up play well. Good to see him showing his quality.

Suspect Jota will be on the bench and build up minutes. He's class and been a real miss.

Yesterday was bad but with Ali, Trent and Jota back, I'm optimistic we can kick on.

12 Apr 2024 13:11:13
Klopp will be missed but his team selection will not so many times he has got it wrong. Hopefully our next manager has that thing called common sense.

12 Apr 2024 14:26:12
Ed, I thought Klopp would go string and try to get a foot hold in the tie BUT boy, did he screw it up with the weakened side he picked. Nothing worked from the off.

And why is he rotating for the sake of it? We don’t even use our FB’s in advanced positions any more and this is stifling our ability to get good service from our FBs onto Darwin who is lethal in the air. It was a wretched night collectively and everyone is responsible starting with the manager.

11 Apr 2024 23:50:35
Remember when we lost to Barcelona 3-0? look what happened there. I know, wishful thinking and all that but it's a nice thought atleast. We've blown it I'm afraid, we're out of that competition in my opinion. I didn't get to watch much of it, thankfully!

12 Apr 2024 02:27:23
Oh Salah. Ye of little faith!
Never Give Up.

12 Apr 2024 03:10:59
Luckily I was only able to watch the first 20 mins. In that time it wasn't looking good. They looked big, sharp, physical, quick and very much up for it. I think we got our team selection wrong again. Needed to go for it w width pace and aggression. That for me was Slob, Robbo, Bradley, Salah. No pace across the front w Elliott and Gakpo. I have to say tho that the last couple of months the team was playing well and Gakpo was well off it. The last 3 games he's been one of our best players but unfortunately the team has not performed. Total flip flop. Nunez was guilty of two glaring misses tonight and when we win he's forgiven. The irony is our bad form has coincided w some players coming back ie salah and Szlobazai etc. Tonight was our best squad for months so i'm a little in shock.

I don't think it's over we are capable of going there and getting a couple of quick goals but long shot for sure. I think now we have to play our strongest 11 in the PL not the EL.

If we win the league all will be forgiven. Let's hope City and Arsenal are able to go through and maybe lose an eye on the PL for a couple of weeks.

12 Apr 2024 06:49:36
Against Barcelona we played the second leg at home and we could finish in those days. Also we were underdogs from the start whereas we were expected to beat Atalanta on quality.
Different story away from home and no decent finishers in the team.

Sorry, this is a longer shot than that long shot.

12 Apr 2024 07:21:50
I have to agree with both Salah and Ron here. To overcome a 3 goal deficit in the second leg where we are playing away from home is a huge ask and given how we have been performing lately, seems unlikely. Still hoping that we do though but it looks like we are going out of another competition this season.

{Ed025's Note - im not so sure Drac, get an early goal and things change mate..

12 Apr 2024 07:46:46
Jota is back. We have a better shot than previously. Klopp needs to get his selection on point and firing the moment the whistle blows.

12 Apr 2024 08:35:24
Seem to remember we played better when getting beat by Barcelona than whatever that was supposed to be last night.

12 Apr 2024 08:54:46
As long as we have 6 minutes on the clock, anything is possible for the Reds in Europe.

12 Apr 2024 08:55:50
I think that's the issue Ed. We have not looked like scoring for a while now, ever since the FA Cup tie with Utd. I know form can change very quickly in football but I can see Atalanta just shutting shop and not allowing us many goalscoring opportunities in the return leg.

12 Apr 2024 08:59:52
C’mon guys, every chance of bagging three in the return leg. Early goal, they get panicked and who knows. All this dismal talk that the season is over etc etc. We are still joint top of the league and can still win it. God help you all next season when we are in transition, if you think this is failing, enjoy the ride we might not be here again for a while.

12 Apr 2024 10:23:11
One of the differences between Barcelona (Apart from 2nd leg at home) - We played well at the Nou Camp and didn't deserve to go in to the 2nd left 3-0 down. We played really well in the first left.

Last night, we were lucky not to lose by 4 or 5.

11 Apr 2024 18:18:46
Scoring goals isn’t easy. The fact that Salah has done it so regularly and reliably has probably caused some of us to take that for granted. Even now when he’s at the declining part of his career he’s still going to end the season on 20+. To me that’s mind boggling. There’s no reason why he shouldn’t be discussed as a world class player. If he was Brazilian, Argentinian, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese or French every man and his dog would bang on about him without hesitation, personally I think there’s some unconscious bias among pundits like Ince when discussing Salah.

Facts are that Salah has scored 20+ every season and assisted around 10 every season: He’s done that consistently at the highest level. He’s scored in European Competitions and proven himself against the best regularly. He’s scored some absolute corkers in there against top opponents. He’s not a tap in merchant/ goal hanger. That goal against City where he put Silva on his bum went past another two city defenders before slotting it past Edison (who is a world class keeper) sums him up.

For me, and by any reasonable measure, a winger who scores 20 goals and creates another 10 in any top class competition every season consistently against top class opponents must be considered world class. He’s got end product to match his skills. We’ve been lucky to see one of the greatest to ever wear a red shirt, I hold him in the same regard as John Barnes. It’ll be a sad day when he leaves and replacing what he brings will not be easy.

11 Apr 2024 18:26:31
He is a world-class player.

11 Apr 2024 18:46:32
Salah at his peak was lightning, stretched defences, scored an obscene amount of goals, pressed like a demon and would have gone straight into the first 11 of any club team in the world.

Not to mention he has won all there is to win as the key goal scorer.

I don't know what Ince's definition is for world class. Perhaps he only considers the top three players in the world world class. But even then, at his peak, Salah was close to this.

To be fair, Ince was a man who went around getting people to call him the guvn'r. His opinion would have very little weight with me.

I think the vast majority would admit that Salah at least during his peak years was world class.

He is still a great player too of course.

11 Apr 2024 18:46:45
Of course he's world-class.

11 Apr 2024 20:37:31
At Davey hope all's well. I am certain I saw an interview where the governor thing came up. Wasn't it just a joke to start with then took off from there?
I don't think it was intended to be like some people see how it looks nowadays.

{Ed001's Note - Ince was and still is an arrogant prick. There was no joke in the nickname, he genuinely believed it.}

12 Apr 2024 03:04:57
Take away Salah's pens and he has 17 goals this season. Not bad by any stretch but he is certainly on the decline from a very high peak. Can he still do a job, absolutely. Is he the player he was, no. If the Saudi's want to play top dollar for a 33 year old player (at the end of the season), a player who incorporated speed as one of his strengths, then we should be extremely grateful for his time and wish him luck away from the club.

Was he/ is he world class is irrelevant. Should we part ways is the question. For me the timing is right.

12 Apr 2024 08:48:50
6 times - the goal you reference was nearly 3 years ago, people are saying he isn't playing well now, as in right now, because he isn't. Contrary to what you say he is getting slot of tap in goals. When was the last time he scored a volley like the one against Stoke, an outside the area curler like the one against Roma or a thunderbolt like the one v Chelsea? Exactly.

No-one is saying he isn't quality because he is. No-one is saying he doesn't have the capability to pull something incredible out the bag, because he can, but that doesn't mean he is above criticism for playing rubbish for 85 minutes of a game, just like Haaland isn't. I genuinely don't think we are going to miss him as much as people make out. It was a catastrophy every time a talisman leaves, retires or is sold. Suarez, Coutinho, Gerrard, Torres, Fowler, Owen, Macca and guess what? Every time we have been just fine and so we will be again when Salah leaves in the summer.

12 Apr 2024 14:27:55
Why anyone is even giving Ince the time of day is what I really want to know.

11 Apr 2024 16:49:30
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new player profile about, Alexander Isak

11 Apr 2024 17:04:56
Nice one, Ed. Osaka is a baller who can play out wide on the left as well and has the ability to score near any type of goal. Like you said, he’s going to want to go play in a trophy hunting team at some point and Newcastle ain’t it.

11 Apr 2024 18:27:30
good one ED, would he have been a better buy than Nunez, while Darwin is a fan fave, he has taken soo long to settle, learn our lingo, ha part scouse, and finally start getting goals and assists, but not enough for me,
think Isak is more of a natural striker, so would we go for him .

{Ed001's Note - no.}

11 Apr 2024 19:59:13
You having a laugh? Isak over Darwin? Not for me.

11 Apr 2024 21:17:05
Have to, say I would take Isak over Nunez.

11 Apr 2024 22:54:14
I wouldn't touch Isak and don't see the allure he has to some on here. I understand it feels like we need upgrades to take advantage of the chances we make but he's not it. I just don't see him contributing to the team other than scoring which doesn't suit us at all. Much better options for us, and Isak is at his level for me.

12 Apr 2024 14:28:25
Darwin all day long.

11 Apr 2024 14:19:58
Hearing the fall back option if the main manager targets don't go well is, Steve Bruce as manager with a backroom staff of Jimmy Bullard and Robby Savage.

11 Apr 2024 14:49:45
I’d be happy with that, add Joey Barton as the new diversity manager and we’ll win the lot!

11 Apr 2024 16:04:41
Still better than Bull Boys Southgate.

11 Apr 2024 17:06:45
With Dim Sherwood and Jason Tindle as first team coaches and we’re off to a flyer.

11 Apr 2024 18:01:09
Matt LeTissier as head of sports science and Neil Ruddock head of fitness and conditioning, we’ll go far.

11 Apr 2024 18:49:06
I'm really hoping Paul Merson gets the job myself.

I wonder how he figures on Liverpool's data analysis.