Liverpool banter 5

12 Apr 2024 13:27:17
Hi eds1
In your opinion how do we get back to winning ways asap. How does Klopp turns this round so we don’t go out with a whimper because this has to be done quick!
Thanks in advance.

{Ed001's Note - get the selection right, stop rotating unless absolutely necessary and drop the inverted full-back to bring back width. That is the key thing, we need some width.}

12 Apr 2024 14:03:21
And to add to that Ed, we need to start whipping crosses in again from our FB’s. We have a n aerially deadly CF in Darwin on our hands and we seem to never cross the ball enuff which is weird cos when we had the 3 amigos, Robbo, Trent and Hendo didn’t hesitate to whip balls in. We have Darwin. Use him.

{Ed001's Note - Robbo still does it, but he has been injured. Elliott gets too narrow before putting balls in, which means it is difficult to put pace on them or they just go straight out of play.}

12 Apr 2024 14:28:04
Agree fully about the width statement, Ed001. Their 3rd goal last night was totally avoidable. If Gomez hadn't been tucked in midfield behind their press, Szoboszlai would've had a simple pass out to the right back position. Instead, he delayed waiting for Gomez to drop back into space and ended up getting caught on the ball.

It's costing us goals at both ends of the pitch.

{Ed001's Note - it's frustrating because it has been obvious all season.}

12 Apr 2024 15:16:48
It's almost like we go narrow because we are petrified of being counterattacked or counterpresses being broken.

12 Apr 2024 16:43:53
The inverted fullback nonsense is so stupid. Pep tried it for one season and jumped off. He won the treble using it but with a very different set of players.

For one, Haaland playing as a focal point of the attack, a striker whose sole purpose is scoring goals, as opposed to Nunez who has a much better all round game. Secondly, the defenders he used were 4 actual centre backs, far more sturdy than anything we have used in the last 18 months. City were far better using this than we have been in the entire year we have persisted with it. They were very solid at the back and controlled games well. They didn't have players of the quality of Alisson, van Dijk or Trent while playing it either. Yet we still persist with this flawed idea that they jibbed a long time ago, not even coming close to achieving the control or solidity that it was intended for.

I think the persistence with the inverted fullback over the past 18 months feels like another symptom of a manager that is beginning to lose his edge when it comes to tactics and long term planning.

12 Apr 2024 18:12:15
AW, I was saying it at the time earlier in the season that this system is fundamentally flawed and mainly does not work if you are playing vs a narrow block like Atalanta did BUT I got told to keep it moving cos we were top and that how dare I question Klopp like you know, the same thing these same people are doing now.

Now to be fair, some tweaks were made to make us more secure BUT now, we seemingly are inverting just for the sake of it rather than it fulfilling an actual purpose to improve us, which it didn’t last night. In fact, it was the direct opposite. Like I have said, we need width from our fullbacks and we need to go back to them whipping balls in to serve the aerial danger that Darwin possesses. We got to switch it up a bit.

12 Apr 2024 22:21:32
In todays episode of it never actually happened

got told to keep it moving cos we were top and that how dare I question Klopp like you know, the same thing these same people are doing now.

If anyone criticises Klopp Oli your go to response is stop crying because the club aren’t doing what you want them to do.

Well guess what.

13 Apr 2024 10:29:43
"If anyone criticises Klopp Oli your go to response is stop crying because the club aren’t doing what you want them to do. "

So you are telling everyone on the internet that you literally cannot tell the difference in context btw. crticizing/ challenging Klopp on his tactics and criticizing the club for decisions being made off the pitch that have nothing to do with on-pitch tactics?

Not surprised tho, as it is coming from someone who went to the gound to watch the Sheff. Utd game YET had NO idea Endo was not playing until he was corrected on this forum. Only heaven knows what what you are seeing when you go to the ground to watch games at this point if you can't tell who is playing and who isn't. Keep the jokes coming. Or whatever it is you think are actual jokes.

13 Apr 2024 12:36:18
Nice one Woli 😂.

13 Apr 2024 13:57:13
AW great post mate but in man u two games we were far the better side the finishing was what let us down the Atalanta game was flat from start to finish the crowd, team selection, tatics but at 0-3 down we had four or five chances to score with out the chances in whole match so i would say the match is not over until the fat lady sings. Point also in last several seasons we have had a bad period around xmas and January were we have drop points we seem to be having that bad period now but i am sure the manager, players, coaches and fans of Liverpool fc will turn it around YNWA.

12 Apr 2024 13:21:59
ED1. looking at last the performances in last few games I have following comments and queries for you

1. How is it that our defense is so open. Only year I remember our defense was perfect was the year we won the league. In last few years defense has been really poor and there seems to be ne effort in training to correct this thing. Is it lack of focus towards defense or plainly down to players. As they say defense win you cups and it explains why we won just 1 league in these many years.

2. In past decade I have not seen a top team which is so poor in finishing. I don't have the data but I can safely assume Liverpool might be in top 3 in terms of shot but bottom in terms of conversion. Again is it down to lack of training or simply down to out offensive players.

3. Lastly on using data while selecting players. While I support that approach but I truly believe selection of players should not be based on this approach singularly. It looks are we are selecting players who have good all round game but they are not masters of their trades. Our offensive players are excellent when measured in terms of all round qualities but when it comes to finishing they might not be in top 5 players in the league (when measured in terms of goal conversion) .

Happy to hear your views and happy to be corrected.

Praveen.

{Ed001's Note - 1. I think the constant rotation of centre-backs is a big part of the problem but added to that is that we play a high risk game of leaving defenders one on one with attackers. That allows us to put more pressure on the opposition higher up the pitch. This season in particular, and to a smaller degree last season, we have also suffered due to our tactical approach meaning the full-backs are not pushing back the opposing widemen as they are drifting inside so much.

2. I don't know, if you actually watch other teams, they all seem to miss a lot of chances, I think the problem is the way we play. We have no width so the opposition can crowd their own box and stay compact, so we are working in tight spaces and snatching at chances. No one is being dragged out to deal with our wide players, so it allows them to keep everyone in the way.

3. Players are also scouted.}

12 Apr 2024 14:07:18
We are also guilty of “overplaying” as in, trying to be too intricate in the final stages which leads to poor decisions and poor execution being made in the final third.

We got to go back to being a bit more direct and have our FB’s start whipping crosses in again as we hit Darwin and Diaz who are lethal in the air. The way we play now dies nor allow for this to happen so their quality in the air is being wasted, imo.

12 Apr 2024 14:29:46
Reading the above, I accept that we have issues, but for gawd sake, we are top of the league. If you didn't understand football and you read through the posts and Ed's replies you would think we were about to get relegated. Like I say, there are things that need fixing and last night was as poor as I've seen us for a long, long time and I had the misfortune of being there, but things aren't beyond fixing.

12 Apr 2024 16:12:13
Rome1977!, I propose you read this thread a second (or even third read, if required) cos NOT single soul so far has acted or reacted the way you are describing in your post.

12 Apr 2024 16:52:40
OliRed, I think you may be right, mate. I suppose I was reacting to other posts and used this thread as a means of replying. I read the chat on the way back from the game, last night, and youd have thought we had been relegated to the Conference. There are also other negative posts, which people are entitled to. But, like I say, we are still top and whatever is wrong can, and I'm sure will, be fixed.

12 Apr 2024 18:17:07
Ah okay then, Rome. I see it what you’re saying now. For sure, people are allowed to be negative after arguably the worst perf since the drubbing at Snfurkd by RM last season and at least on that one, we were crap all of last season so there’s a valid reason.

Last night, we shipped the bed and nobody knows why Klopp made the lineup he made and the tactics he deployed and that’s even more annoying. As for the “Throw the baby with the bath water out” brigade, i stopped caring about such rhetoric years ago.

12 Apr 2024 13:33:25
I think Klopp was right - he has run out of steam. Who knows what will happen next season, but I think the time is right for a more tactically aware manager. You can only go so far on man motivation, and he seems to be losing that now. His team selection last night was very poor. How many times does he have to see Elliot in Salah’s position to know it doesn’t work?

Why has Gomez suddenly become a ‘must play’ player? Because that clown Southgate included him in an England squad? Gomez is woeful on the ball, no creativity at all and slows the game down. His defending is even worse. He has no defensive awareness at all and just strolls back. Don’t get me started on Tsimikas. Although Kelleher was ultimately to blame for the first goal, it was really Tsimikas’s fault.

He dived in and actually tackled Gakpo on the touch line, leaving the Atalanta player acres of space to make the cross. I have always stuck up for Nunez because of his work rate and ability to always be involved, but he looks no more composed in front of goal now as he did when he first came. If he can’t sort that out, he needs replacing.

Diaz flatters to deceive and is not the same player since his injury. We need a lot of reconstruction in the back 4. VVD had been great but it getting older and can’t do it on his own. Konate is quite poor defensively and never stays fit Matip going at the end of the season. As previously mentioned, Gomez and Tsimikas are Championship standard.

12 Apr 2024 14:04:49
Give it a rest, joe has been one of our players of the season filling in at whatever role the team needs and performing admirably each time, it’s not his fault he was asked to invert to disastrous results…I do think he should probably relax with the long range shooting for the time being, though
As for Kostas, everybody was anxious about the fact that he got hurt earlier in the season, he was playing that well standing in for robbo, if they were championship standard how are we tied for points at the top of the premier league?

12 Apr 2024 14:37:12
What an absolute load of nonsense redjersey.

It was a very poor performance last night but we can’t let that undo the unbelievable work the team has done this season.

In reality, with the amount of injuries we’ve had plus losing Salah and Endo for January and half of February to internationals we have been nothing short of miraculous.

All players, including Tsimikas, Gomez, Nunez, Konate and Kelleher have contributed to that so to start saying they are not good enough after one poor performance is just pathetic.

It was a bad night, in my opinion that is largely due to us underestimating Atalanta but even more so the Anfield crowd underestimating Atalanta. Why would we decide to stage a no flag protest in a European quarter final? If that was the CL against Madrid would they have done that?

Absolutely not, they chose that game because they thought we’d win anyway. In my opinion the Anfield crowd are as much to blame as the players.

12 Apr 2024 15:24:50
I am with Beckers Pecker on this one about the no flag night. The atmosphere last night reminded me of the atmosphere at Everton when they played Man City a few years ago and the fans wanted them to lose, so that City would beat us to the title. And a little bit like when the fans wanted Benitez to lose so that he would get sacked. Never Ever Ever repeat that please, it had a profound effect on the players, they couldn't pass straight, couldn't anticipate what their team mates would do and couldn't concentrate on their shooting.

12 Apr 2024 16:14:20
Beckers pecker, awesome post. Also, I told you these people would be back on here, didn't I? So easy to predict.

12 Apr 2024 16:51:04
I see, blame the crowd.

The definition of apologism.

The players played rubbish and the manager was tactically schooled.

Pity the fans who paid to watch that garbage rather than say “they’re as much to blame as the players”.

Absolute nonsense.

12 Apr 2024 17:39:14
Agree with you, Ron. So it was my fault we put in the most inept display since Roy Hodgson.

12 Apr 2024 22:19:50
Fans who don’t go to games blaming the fans who do go to games

Welcome to football in 2024.

12 Apr 2024 13:29:00
Dominic needs to start playing a lot better at the Mo he should be nowhere near the first team. For me he is way too weak I lose count the amount of challenges he stays out of. Definitely playing for his position or not playing you could say.

12 Apr 2024 11:45:48
Our recent run of form has been disappointing and our performances (even in some of the wins ) have left a lot to be desired

I was going to post the following after the United match but refrained

Last season was awful compared with what went before

We finished 5th - 4points off a CL place and a full 22points off the winners

We conceded 47 league goals which has been our highest total conceded since 2015/ 16

We exited both the league cup and FA Cup in round 4 and got smashed by Real Madrid in the CL

We have to keep some perspective
To go from that position to challenging for the title and winning silverware is progress

Yes recently we haven't performed that well but we are still IMO a squad that needs adding to and that isn't going to happen overnight.

Realistically it has been not changing that squad early enough that has hampered us if anything

To be where we are after the season we had last time out is not something to be sniffed at - securing CL football this season was a priority and we should still be able to do that.

It's almost as if Klopp leaving has added additional expectation to what we can do.

We want to win everything - but we can't expect to win everything

Let's keep on the level, keep supporting all our players and enjoy the run-in.

12 Apr 2024 13:48:13
Hopefully last nite has given us a jolt and our players get back to playing how they can, as u say paisley we've been poor from man utd game in cup. slow, sluggish not sharp anywhere over the field. We give opposition a sitter in 1st couple of minutes of every game which to me means we not switched on, sheff utd Brighton and atlanta shouldn't be getting a sitter inside 2mins at anfield. eack of them 3 games we where 1-0 down or shouldve been that quick. I woulD expect last nite was rock bottom and will see a much improved performance sunday.

12 Apr 2024 14:09:55
I get your point but even if additions are needed it’s clear to me that we are a top top team with probably the best manager in the world, there’s no reason for us to crumble like that against Atalanta, however good of a team they are, clearly lots of people here know that we can and should do better. Of course that doesn’t mean that klopp or the players should play like they deserve a free pass to go through, that’s what’s inexcusable.
Of course they can still turn it around and I think it’s not outside the realm of possibility. If anything this team has given us a lot of joy this season, and they are good enough to not let themselves and us down.

12 Apr 2024 14:13:59
Spot on, Paisley and Digger. The fact that we are where we are during essentially a rebuilding season is a testament to Klopp and the players. Things are not perfect for sure but at the end of the day, our guys have risen and answered the call way more often than not this season.

I get it. The last two results and perfs. were not up to standard and hurt really bad. Our boys screwed up massively and they know it. Last night was the absolute worst we have played this season, hands down. However, It’s time to regroup and make the final push right now. With more heavy hitters now back, they will bring some more freshness and new energy into the squad. On to Palace and Up Da Pool!

12 Apr 2024 10:36:44
Last night had been coming. I think you've got to go back to mid Feb and the back to back 4-1 wins over Luton and Brentford to find a match where we looked really convincing. Since then we've been limping along, still winning most of our matches but scraping through unconvincingly in my opinion. A bit fortunate to get past Brighton 2-1 at home. Really unimpressive and leaving it late against Sheff Utd (worst team in the league) at home. Scraping a point with a late equaliser against an absymal Manchester Utd.

If last night doesn't act as the reset to ignite a change for the rest of the season, I think it will be over pretty soon. Fortunately, our next match is arguably the "easiest" of our remaining seven league matches so provides an opportunity to change course and start a charge. If we don't turn up and win with a convincing performance on Sunday against Palace, sadly I think it will be the beginning of the end.

Klopp faces some tricky decisions now. Many players have dropped away at the same time. Gomez is looking more like the old Gomez who always made me nervous. Endo has had a couple of consecutive shockers. Szoboszlai looks a million miles from the player we saw at the start of the season. Salah has been largely anonymous for the last three matches. Critical individual errors are creeping in (Quansah, Kelleher and Szoboszlai all leading to goals in the last two matches) . So the fact we have players returning from injury is timely. However, not many players can come straight back in and be sharp and at their best straight away. Jones last night didn't look sharp and that's fair after a long break. Trent has historically needed several matches to get up and running. We don't have that luxury. Jota actually looked pretty sharp when he came on and he is the one who I think can make an impact straight away. And the other small positive from last night was that Gakpo was looking better again.

12 Apr 2024 11:00:46
I thought Jota looked really sloppy when he came on to be honest.
I think the injury crisis has finally caught up with us though, too many look either knackered from playing too much and not being rotated or slow because they are coming back from injury.
Hopefully we discover a bit of form in the next one and the blip is short lived.

12 Apr 2024 11:07:41
What a low point last nights game was. You can’t even single out one player as they all were collectively bad, maybe besides Gakpo who was okay at best. In regards to Klopp. He has been making some bizarre decisions of late. I and a number of other said before on here that going strong in a dead rubber against Sparta when we had United a few days later was baffling from Klopp. But it’s even more baffling now that in a quarter final tie he has fielded a weakened side. I mean, I would love to know his thought process behind that. Because to me it stinks of either incompetence or arrogance. I’m going with the latter, in that Klopp thought we had won the game before it had been played. Which amongst other things explains our poor and quite frankly inexplicable first half performances for most of this season.

That mentality starts from the manager and filters through to the players. But the players have to also take responsibility, because there is a thing called pride and ownership, which has been lacking of late. What also looked worrying from last night was the fact Klopp appeared lost on the side lines and completely out of any ideas on how to turn the game around. We were out smarted tactically, which is not the first time us saying that this season. And those second half late winners that have been masking a lot, weren’t there to save us. Again, whilst many were shouting “mentality monsters” after those late winning performances this season. Many of us were saying that playing poorly and relying on individual moments to save us was not sustainable and the results don’t really tell the full picture.

Another thing I have noticed and could be wrong is how the players appear. Since Klopp announced he was leaving there has been a shift in energy from the players and it’s seemingly noticeable. I keep hearing we are just exhausted and using that as an excuse. What about Arsenal and City? Have they not played just as many games? The players look disinterested and unmotivated is what it is, and that is really concerning. It can’t be coincidence it coincided with Klopp announcing he is leaving a few months back. Late second half winners masked it but it has been evident. It’s almost like Klopp doesn’t hold that fear factor anymore. When you’re in a job and you’re either leaving or you know the manager is going. Naturally you lose some drive. But the number of players that appear to have done that and the level in which it appears to have happened is alarming. Some of the players are probably thinking - I worked so hard and have the trust of this manager and now he is upping sticks and leaving and I have to win the trust of a new manager who might ship me out as soon as he arrives.

Don’t know what the right answer is in when Klopp should have announced his departure. Maybe should have gone last summer instead of announcing in January of all times. However, even prior to his announcement we hadn’t been playing well. But the announcement completely messed up any type of momentum we did or could have had in the title run in. Dare I say it, but it’s almost like some of the players ain’t really listening to him anymore and that’s a major component of Klopp’s success. Now, is it so us to go to Atalanta and out of nowhere beat them 4-0. The answer would be yes. But is it so us to do that then get beaten a few days later in the league against Fulham. The answer would also be yes. So sad to see us finishing this season like this and if we only win the Carabao Cup, this season has been a disaster!

12 Apr 2024 11:14:14
I thought Jota looked sharp last night.

He misplaced one sloppy pass into touch but he was one of few who seemed to have energy.

12 Apr 2024 11:20:12
I personally don't get this 'players looked knackered' remark. Yes, they have layed a lot football, but so have all the other top teams in Europe. We also have probably one of, if not the, strongest squads in terms of depth. Players have been rotated and rested throughout the season as well. Performances last night can't be put down to tiredness when most of the team haven't been regular starters.
It was just shambolic, probably the worst performance I have seen in a very long time. How tsimikas is still an LFC player I don't know. The first few minutes he was in acres of space and put a cross in that sailed over everyone and went out for a goal kick. I knew then it was going to be a long night!

{Ed001's Note - that moment set the tone of the night for me.}

12 Apr 2024 11:33:58
I don't think this season will be a disaster no matter what happens. Champions league football is all bug secured, we won a cup and we brought some talented players into the club and promoted some very important youth players. It would not be a fairytale ending but still a good season in my eyes from where we were last season.

That said, these Liverpool players and coaching staff only no one way. The hard way. We're not done yet.

Like a wise genius posted on the match posts

"Warriiiooors, come out to play"

12 Apr 2024 11:35:16
I do wonder whether the last 5/ 6 fixtures being very tactical clashes have also contributed to the loss of form.

The games against City, Brighton, United x2 and now Atalanta have been against teams where we have had to adjust the way we play.

Have we overthinked (is that a word? ) our way out of form?

12 Apr 2024 11:50:18
It was a very bad night no denying that but it doesn’t happen often so let’s not forget how far Klopp has brought us
Up the pool.

12 Apr 2024 12:09:08
@Coulred. Two things can be true. He will go down as a legend regardless. There is no two ways about it. But, Klopp has made a lot of blunders this season and is not above criticism. Again, the players have to take responsibility in that as well, not just Klopp. Despite all that that we still have time to turn it around by beating Atalanta in the second tie and winning the league.

One things for sure is that we cannot let the season fizzle out on a whimper with just the Carabao Cup. Many laughed at United for having a similar season not long ago and it could happen to us. Despite Klopp annoying me a lot of late with a number of bizarre decisions, he still deserves the best send off possible for all he has done for us. And winning the league and Europa would be the perfect way to do that.

12 Apr 2024 12:51:19
These lot get a new manager they are in for a shock, kostas and gomez straight out the door for me, had enough of Joe he's bang average. Reminds me of Phil jones. Gravenberch was a bad signing. And give Trent the captaincy or even salah but not virg.

12 Apr 2024 14:19:40
That was as bad as it could get this season on a collective level. As Ed said, Tsimikas’s wayward play set the tone from the off. Individual mistakes all over the shop, poor decision making, etc. You name it, it was on show. For me, no point singling out this or that player. It was what the French call, a “Collective Wreckage” from top to bottom. I’ve already moved on.

12 Apr 2024 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - BarnetNige81 has posted a new article entitled, Current thoughts on Chelsea FC