Liverpool banter 4

15 Apr 2024 10:23:29
Morning Eds
With the way the last few weeks have gone obviously the reverting back to the slow and very laboured build up hasn't helped, but do you think it has exposed that maybe some of the players are good with patches of excellent form, rather than top class players or do you think maybe it's just a little stale and a new manager would give us a fresh start?

Thinking really of the likes of Konate, Endo, Szobo, Diaz, Jones, Elliot, Gakpo mostly.
I think personally it's time to move Sapah on this summer, he has been unbelievable but we can't afford to let him go for free and I don't think it's plausible to give him a massive extension.

{Ed001's Note - this is on tactics and that is the issue.}

15 Apr 2024 11:33:58
This is my two cents, for what it’s worth.

We have been poor for a while now. And those late winners were not really telling the full story if someone was just looking at the league table. Whilst many were screaming mentality monsters after those victories, many of us were saying it wasn’t sustainable, and here we are. Not even a knee jerk reaction as I said it before this game, but I hope and expect there to be a massive clear out this summer. I can easily make a justification for near enough half the players in this squad being moved on. In regards to Klopp, the man is a legend for everything he has done, there is no question about that. And I thank him for giving me the best memories supporting this club. But let’s be honest, he is not the best tactically and for me his tenure at Liverpool has run it’s course and it’s time for him to leave. He is making so many glaring tactical missteps it’s unreal and to compound matters he has no plan B when things are going bad. It’s either arrogance or incompetence, or even both. It’s worrying when the manager makes the same fixable mistakes over and over again, and saying that I can almost guarantee that Klopp will continue to set us up in a 433 with the same tactics until the season finishes, even if we continue to drop points.

Another observation is it appears there seems to be a lot going on with the players behind the scenes. I and many others have said before that there has been a visible shift in mentality and energy after Klopp announced he was leaving. I think a number of players have decided to leave this summer and the squad are aware of who those players are. I think Klopp has lost the fear factor with the players and dare I say, the respect of some. Then you have some players who have been protected by Klopp for far too long who are worried about their position in the squad, let alone the first team. Then you have others who have fought to gain the trust of Klopp like your Bradley’s who are thinking will the new manager fancy me. And you have your blatant Klopp signings in Gravenberch who know they were a Klopp signing and are thinking they could (and should IMO) be shipped out. One player who is probably jumping for joy is Elliott. The lad plays well and gets dropped for the likes of Gravenberch. Also, we was he benched for Jones and why were other subs brought on before him against Palace? Baffling to say the least. Anyways, I trust Edwards and Hughes to handle a summer clear out and I’m actually excited if and when it happen, especially if we get Amorim.

The saying life comes at you fast can never be more true than after todays results. From quadruple to Carabao Cup in the blink of an eye. If we don’t win another trophy, this has got to be one of the biggest capitulation I have seen in the league for some time. And despite Klopp making far too many tactical errors for my liking. I really wanted him to have a good send off for everything he has done for us, and that is looking unlikely now. Sad to see us finish the season like this.

15 Apr 2024 12:13:08
Seen a few talking about mentality, and I can see why as it is clear heads have dropped. I don't think that is on these players or their quality, however. We have a great squad, and if we don't win another trophy this will be our fourth consecutive year of performing below our potential, as far as I am concerned.

I think the players do look mentally fragile and rocked at this moment but I agree with Ed001, that all stems from the tactics. Stupid, overly complex and lazy tactics that they no longer have faith in. Titles are built on defence because it gives you a base to work from. Forwards are more likely to make the right decisions when they aren't being asked to bail out the rest of the team all the time. I'm not sure if any of our forwards look like long term starters for Liverpool right now, but I don't think the demands being placed on them every week are helping.

We haven't been in control of football matches all season. Constantly chasing and coming from behind takes its toll, mentally and physically. The manager doesn't appear bothered by this and hasn't been for the last four seasons, if we're being honest. I think a new manager that can bring some intensity, sharpness and attention to detail would make this group of players look brilliant again. We have been fortunate enough to have the best goalkeeper, centre back and right back of this generation, and haven't won either of the big trophies with them in the past four seasons.

In years to come, I feel Klopp's tenure will be viewed as follows. Years 1-5, some of the most flawless football management you will ever see. Years 6-9, a huge missed opportunity and failure to capitalise given the talent at our disposal.

The things that the manager is saying in post-match at this moment sound completely alien, he is a shadow of the manager he was a few years ago. He doesn't appear to be doing his homework on the opposition tactics at all and is placing the blame on his players, which is a first.

It is definitely time for a change. I hope that in years to come we can look back and say that one of the greatest things that Klopp ever did was leave at the right time, not dragging it out any further in the manner that Wenger did. Sad to see it end this way, but if nothing else, it is reassuring to confirm that his departure is what is best for the club.

15 Apr 2024 12:36:31
We have only really battered a couple of teams this year, we have labored through and now we are getting caught, we all look shot, staff and players, not sure why the kids aren't still playing as they really gave everything, Salah, Diaz defiantly need to move on, purely to give us funds, I am massively excited to have Amorim come in and do something different, Klopp has been slated for no plan B but Amorim changes play each game, the players need a new start too.

15 Apr 2024 12:38:26
Honestly lads, we've been rubbish a while now and defeats were coming - we seem to have abandoned the high energy pressing game again and gone back to a slow possession based system - why?

We look so much better with a high energy press, quick football and width - now we've went back to a slow possession game, passing for passing sake that opposition teams love defending against

Coupled with some poor performances and defensive lapse, we inevitably concede and then struggle to score - is this a tactical switch? If so, it is simply wrong and surely recent performances would show that?

Though we have been poor and whilst a lot of it seems a change in system/ tactics/ style of play etc; we have still created enough chances to win those games - our forwards could really do with finding their shooting boots again.

15 Apr 2024 12:40:49
Alonso - What you’ve said regarding behind the scenes is interesting in that there is little evidence for a lot of it, yet if it WERE true it would make a lot of sense.
A not-insignificant number of our players (Gravenberch, Robertson, Konate, Diaz, Gakpo etc. ) absolutely should be worried about their place in the squad, some for quality concerns and others for their poor availability. Klopp, for all his abilities, has proven to be a rather average judge of talent and our signings, at least in combination with Klopp’s poor deployment of them, are not offering the value they did in the early part of Klopp’s reign. As for Bradley, the new manager will not have a choice but to favour him - he’s a fantastic player and will be exceptional in any system.
I was devastated when Klopp announced he was leaving. Not anymore. He’s massively underachieved in the last two seasons and it’s entirely his fault. Hopefully the new manager will make us a bit less unserious tactically and we won’t have to start games 0-1 down next season.

15 Apr 2024 12:43:09
It’s the slow starts to the game that’s the most puzzling to me. How can all the coaches and sports science experts not sort this out. I honestly can’t remember a single game were the whistle blows and we go for it. Even this game against CP we start slow after the shock of a 0-3 lost at home. Klopps words were there will be a reaction. Well the only reaction was leaving a player standing in acres of space unmarked to tap a winning goal in.

15 Apr 2024 13:39:11
AW - great post and hard to argue with any of it.

15 Apr 2024 09:50:22
I'm absolutely gutted right now. To think that our season could be over by the end of this week, when only 6 weeks ago we had a legitimate chance at finishing the season with 4 trophies, is just sickening.

Feels like the players and Klopp all took their eye off the ball after that one crazy game against United in the FA Cup before the international break. I think sadly that game may have been the catalyst. The emotional bubble we were floating on after Klopp said he's leaving seems to have well and truly burst and nobody looks like they have the foggiest idea how to stop the downward spiral.

Tactics have been questionable for at least a couple of years admittedly ever since Lijnders took on more responsibility and we started down the road of this inverted full back that we then never signed the right left centre back to execute properly. We've gone behind in 21 out of 32 games this season so Robertson can come out and moan at the forwards if he wants but the back 4 has been an absolute disgrace at times. We're the top scorers in Europe in all competitions but going behind early every bloody time allows the opposition to park the bus and then closes out the space for our attackers and piles pressure on them to score.

I'm really pleased we got to share that moment with Klopp and the u21 lads who won the Carabao Cup final at least, because on the balance of his whole tenure, Klopp deserved to go out with some silverware this season. It's just a crying shame that we've ran out of steam for all the bigger trophies. I'm praying to Fowler that somehow we can find another famous European comeback on Thursday as that would be another beautiful moment if we turned it around and went on to win the trophy. I've not given up on that happening as we've come back from worse. However I honestly don't expect City and Arsenal to drop the points we need to win the league from here so I'm not even going to dare to dream of that. Europa League is still in our hands even though we need a miracle. One last dance please lads!

15 Apr 2024 10:48:52
Arsenal will drop more points this season, as for City who knows what Chelsea turn up at the Etihad and Spurs maybe able to do us a favor.

Forest away may also trip City up, the rest Man City play I suspect are on the beach.

It ain't over till it's over.

15 Apr 2024 11:02:01
Maybe I'm just protecting myself from disappointment, King Carlos! Of course there is a chance, but how often have Pep's City bottled it from this position? Sadly the answer is currently "never".

15 Apr 2024 11:45:57
MKS, all our issues and inconsistencies that many of us recognised way earlier in the season that had not been fully addressed, came to the fore in the last 3 games. And having to tell the other team, "We'll spot you a goal early in the game and let's see how you handle it" for most of the season got to a head and there is only so many times you can go to the well to rescue games.

Hence as soon as your forwards hit a wall or managerial decisions are a bit iffy (which happens during a season), there is nowhere left to go. It's hard to take and the momentum has been stalled all over the pitch and in the coaching staff. As for the league, we are WELL on the outside looking in. Europa League? Do our best and if it's not enuff, pack it in and move on.

15 Apr 2024 11:48:33
I feel exactly the same MK and also tend to agree that it does seem to have imploded a bit since the FA Cup game against Utd.

The constant trying to recover from going a goal down couldn't keep happening and something needed to change from both the tactical and psychological side. It would be really nice to be 1-0 or 2-0 up for a change but it seems we're just far too slow starting games and constantly get punished and make life hard for ourselves.

Will keep fingers crossed that we somehow get some results in the final few weeks of the season but I've seen nothing over the last few games to convince me that that will happen!

Personally, I'm just looking forward to next season now to see what the new manager brings and we can start a fresh.

Lets be honest with ourselves. After last season and how far off we were, could we really see ourselves in this position with 6 games to go after completely changing how whole midfield? Probably not.

Let's see what happens and try and enjoy what we can of the remaining games that we have :-)

15 Apr 2024 13:18:57
The second half performance against Palace was very encouraging and with key people now back and finding rhythm, I for one am optimistic for a final push.

We are only two points off the top and tough games for everyone still to go. More points will be dropped by Arsenal and City.

The defeatism of some on here is frankly pathetic. Falling down is human. We judge on how people get up and bounce back. I trust Herr Klopp to find solutions, as he has before.

Let's get behind the lads and push on!

15 Apr 2024 14:50:49
Jaynwa, I think pathetic is a bit harsh, but I do get your point though! I still believe we can finish the season strong and maybe even win every game we have left. I just think City will do the same mate.

15 Apr 2024 15:47:45
Ernst Junger "I am an anarch - not because I despise authority but because I need it. Likewise I am not a non believer but a man that demands something worth believing in. " Jurgen showed us something to believe in and I did for 9 years with Mr Klopp, right now I just don't see us having a good finish to the season. Really, really hope I'm wrong but I don't see it on the pitch or on the bench. A lot of people wanted to blame the fans after the Atalanta defeat, well to everyone that was at Anfield on Sunday well done, you are the only ones that didn't down your tools.

15 Apr 2024 17:05:20
MKS, finishing the season strong is all we got right now. It is what it is.

15 Apr 2024 09:34:55
Watching klopp’s post match interview yesterday was the first time the thought of a new manager actually felt right. Klopp looked mentally shattered. I absolutely idolise the man but I think now is probably the right time for fresh ideas.

Thanks for everything Jurgen!

15 Apr 2024 11:46:27
JK_RED, maybe the guy knew what he was saying all along.

15 Apr 2024 07:43:31
Not scoring sitters is one thing, but the hopeless defending, making poor mistakes over and over again, not learning from those mistakes and conceding stupid needless goals through that sloppiness is worse.

We’ve literally handed points to Man United and Crystal Palace through our own stupidity and just as bad, thrown away a quarter final tie against Atalanta. As it is the squad looks completely done, devoid of ideas, energy or the ability to do anything about it, not that they can now do anything about the league as it’s as good as finished now and barring an extremely unlikely miracle UEFA cup is dead in the water too, City never drop points from this position.

We’ve sabotaged ourselves which is a terrible way for Klopp to bow out and the players have let him down. Whoever is coming in has a lot of work on his hands. I personally doubt it’ll be Amorim as Romano has said no contact has been made with either his agent or Sporting and as much as he’s a click bait merchant he also has some level of reliability and given our poor relationship with Sporting it feels like that will be issue.

I suspect we’re in for a nasty shock and it’ll be a fail merchant like Tuchel, Nagelsmann, De Zerbi or Potter, depending on who is cheaper and who’s prepared to work with a small transfer budget.

15 Apr 2024 08:20:29
I reckon someone we’ve never heard of.

15 Apr 2024 08:22:09
It’s not just players that have let Klopp down it’s Klopp himself. He is the one picking the players and tactics so he has to take blame as well. He is also the one who told the world that he is leaving half way though the season and that has got to have an effect on everyone.

15 Apr 2024 09:03:17
Again, what players could he have picked different?

15 Apr 2024 09:24:59
The players are capable of winning everything, we know that much so why is their mentality the way it currently is? they don't have the right mindset, no positivity whatsoever. I love Klopp and will never go on about him but at the same time, something is very wrong at the minute and it's getting on my nerves. I hate to say it and in no way am I saying I can't wait for Klopp to be out because if it was upto me he'd be staying but I am looking forward to seeing what a new manager brings. I think we're going to see a hell of a lot of changes over the next couple of years.

A lot is wrong and I don't see us fixing it now, not this season. I just can't see us getting back on form. After Thursday I had a bad feeling about yesterday.

A few weeks ago I was excited about what we'd be winning, now it's not the case, we've blown it in my opinion. We will drop more points and the worst thing is I don't see City dropping any, they'll win it.

15 Apr 2024 09:39:46
Having our seasons wobble at the wrong time unfortunately
Up the pool.

15 Apr 2024 10:59:39
Hit a wall on near every topic at the worst of times, me thinks.

15 Apr 2024 12:29:31
I see a lot of posts saying the players have let Klopp down, after Atalanta many wanted to blame the fans for the performance. The management team deserve as much blame as anyone else.

15 Apr 2024 12:41:51
Pep Lijnders will have no salary if it's true he told Klopp that he would give up his salary if his system did not work on the pitch.
Well Pep your system has not worked.

15 Apr 2024 06:50:58
'And the sun shines now. '

Thinking of the victims and their families, the survivors, and everyone affected by that horrible day 35 years ago.

Never forgotten.
YNWA.

15 Apr 2024 07:12:14
Absolutely, TrickyT. There are more important things than kicking a ball about.

God Bless the 97

YNWA.

15 Apr 2024 07:40:26
Bang on, Tricky T.

YNWA.

15 Apr 2024 08:01:04
Remembering the 97

YNWA.

15 Apr 2024 08:56:05
Well said 👏 time to put the football thoughts away.

15 Apr 2024 09:09:30
Gone but not forgotten 97

YNWA.

15 Apr 2024 09:41:53
YNWA 97.

15 Apr 2024 10:59:56
YNWA!

14 Apr 2024 23:06:18
For me nunez is not a striker I would rather see him on the left wing or sold, for our next game I want too see gakpo on the left his natural position, Jota down the middle and szbozlai on the right wing the position he thrived at in leipzig which he scored goals and created assists. I hate the way we buy players and play them everywhere but there best position.

15 Apr 2024 07:32:34
Did Nunez play on the left for Benfica 🤔.

15 Apr 2024 11:02:24
Yeah cos it's Nunez's fault we had 60 misplaced/ mirubbish passes in the first half alone? . Oh and it is Nunez's fault that Jones, Jota, Salah and Diaz could not score or that Salah played his worst game of the season, right? Or that Klopp could have taken Salah off way earlier but didn't do it, yeah? Take the day off, mate.

14 Apr 2024 22:15:08
Sometimes relationships break down, divorce ensues and people who once loved their partner start getting bitter. Name calling, dismissive of there time together. Suddenly they try to make out the amazing time they had together wasn't all they thought it was, and maybe the breakup is for the best? One partner has to show some decorum for the sake of the baby ( club) This is what it feels like on here atm to me. A couple of bad results (is a point away to Utd a bad result? ) and fans turning on players Some even digging klopp out for under achieving . l've had the best 9 years in the last 30 as a Liverpool supporter thanks to him. He's the reason why players wanted to come here he's the reason why we are a super power again. With probably the exception of Real, Bayern and maybe city every other club in Europe would swap places with us. I would love him to go out with a bang play heavy metal football maybe? But if he decides to persevere with whatever system he wants he has earned that right. He could have walked away mid season but he showed some respect/ love for us and the club and stood by us the least he deserves is it reciprocated. YNWA jurgen.

14 Apr 2024 22:35:51
Just remember Scouse John it was Klopp who wants the divorce because we didn't take him on enough sunny holidays.

I wanted couples counselling but it is what it is.

Of course there were some good times. Who could forget that night of passion in Madrid that ended with that amazing ORIGIasm.

We'll stay great friends. That's for sure. He is the one that thought us to love again. Although, it was a little weird on carabou cup nights when we woke up in the bed with Pep Linders. What just happened?

At least we get the kids. Little Alexis and Dom, little Conor and his cheeky face, Trent (He's growing up so fast. Sniff sniff) and the rest. We had a lot of children with him.

Some of the older ones will move out. Mo and Virj maybe. But you can't stay at home forever.

But there's life in us fans yet. We're no spring chickens but we still give a hell of a rendition of "Allez Allez Allez", "Oh Andy, Andy" and that classic "You'll never walk alone" . Not even Klopp when he leaves. He'll have pep with him.

There'll be another who will fall for our charms and we'll fall for his. And I'm sure there'll be many more nights of exciting passion ahead of us.

14 Apr 2024 23:04:33
Get real. Klopps substitutions and team selections have cost us. Can't wait for a new manager. Arnold should stay on right like Robertson has on left, no spaces in behind and stop messing with team selection maybe the players will know where they are.

14 Apr 2024 23:35:47
Wake up and smell what you’re shovelling. We got to a position where everything was in our own hands and then Klopp and the players bottled it. Also not for the first time. Klopp gets praised when it going well and now when we can’t keep a clean sheet and we can’t score goals Klopp takes his share of the blame.

15 Apr 2024 05:09:24
Klopp and the players got us into that position where things were in our hands in the first place. But I agree that Klopp and the players should be held accountable for the poor results in recent weeks too. Why we shifted styles to this slow and turgid build-up when it has never worked before is beyond me. We always play our best when we go all out and overwhelm the opponents from the first minute.

15 Apr 2024 08:03:04
Welcome back @Mark. As an aside who do you think it was who got us in the position we are - two points off the top with a handful f games to go.

15 Apr 2024 11:23:00
Good form, Davey.

15 Apr 2024 11:40:53
Great point, WDW3.
And I don't think anyone is saying Klopp or the players shouldn't take any responsibility for poor results and performances. But we are one of three sides that have had the fewest poor results this season.