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25 Apr 2024 10:48:20
Everyone on about Salah but does anyone think Robertsons legs are also gone? He was awful last night and is 31 now and tsimikas ain't much good, we could be in big trouble going forward if we don't move some of the old on.
25 Apr 2024 10:24:00
So what are we playing at? We've suddenly turned into a shambles, Klopp, coaches, players, everybody has buggered up. We can't just pin the blame on Klopp it's not just him, way I see it is the players have just given up.
It was always going to be one of them games and fair play to Everton but come on we should be beating them, the fact we didn't says a great deal, we are in a right state and it won't be an easy fix I don't think. go back a couple of months and we're hammering that Everton team, now we are this sloppy? It makes no sense to me and is doing my head in. I just want the season to end now, roll on next season.
25 Apr 2024 10:44:01
Partly tactics but mainly Nunez, if we had firmino last night we score two or three. Cannot even bear to watch the bloke anymore. The stick heskey used to get and he's not a patch on him.
25 Apr 2024 10:50:09
The recruitment has been bad for a number of years. Not sure who to blame for that.
Midfielders should have been brought in after 2021/ 22, Salah should have been sold last season – late in both instances – and then there's a handful of players, such as Keita, who were simply a waste of money, and others, such as Díaz, who have been decent but not good enough.
25 Apr 2024 10:59:10
It's a combination of everything you say, Salah. Not just Klopp, for sure, and definitely not just Pep Ljinders, which I'm getting sick of hearing about. Not one player escapes criticism, but some are deserving of it more than others. The suddenness of our decline is what I find most surprising. A month ago we were on for 4 trophies, and now it's all gone down the pan.
It's a shame that our greatest manager in the last 30 years is going out this way, but we can only look forward to next season and the start of, hopefully, a promising new era.
25 Apr 2024 11:00:15
I was asking myself the same, Salah. Aside from concluding that we have simply had a classic run-in meltdown and collapsed in the way that we've seen teams do so many times down the years (which I wouldn't have expected from this team), I found myself wondering if actually somehow our results and position up to March was actually misleading and not a true representation.
Sounds daft perhaps, and typically I am happy with the principle that the table doesn't lie, but look at the stats on first goal conceded and the number of times we have had to come from behind. Normally a team with such damning stats in that department wouldn't have sustained a title challenge.
And then less qualitatively and more subjective, but the level of performances. There aren't many times this season where I watched us and came away thinking we were on fire. Chelsea at Anfield was one (but we still managed to conceded two goals and we lost the next match at Arsenal) . I know it's ultimately a results business but I always feel that, even if you're grinding out the results, if your performance level is poor, it will catch up with you eventually. We can't honestly say that we've consistently been at the same level as City and Arsenal through the season can we?
25 Apr 2024 11:03:38
Yet we're still second in the table and above the best team in the world 😂.
I don't think we are a shambles but the past few weeks have been difficult watching us. I don't think we've been great for a while but results and being at the top masked that, possibly. And don't forget, we won our two previous games prior to the Derby both away from home.
There's no denying that performances and results have gone downhill and a big worry is they have come at a time when energy levels are on the wain. Can we just roll out sleeves for the last few games?
Saying that, we could have enough points already to hobble into the top four.
25 Apr 2024 11:05:08
Recruitment has been so poor the last few years. Go back to when Klopp first took over. Wijnaldum, Matip, Mane in his first summer. (Milner Firmino Gomez just before Klopp came in) Robertson Salah van Dijk the following season. Fabinho Alisson the next. We’ve signed decent players the last few years but it’s been nowhere near as good as it used to be.
25 Apr 2024 08:20:04
This is one of the only times in Klopp's tenure, barring the very early days, were the players can be accused of fight, effort, or drive. Shirking challenges is unacceptable and Salah and Szobo were 2 of numerous players guilty. Getting beat is fine, getting completely outfought and out worked isn't. Don't think it will just be Klopp leaving at the end of the season.
25 Apr 2024 08:40:59
Seano, you took these words right out of my keyboard. Absolutely spot on. Our guys didn't want anything to do wth Everton last night. The lack of fight was already palpable from the off. It seemed like someone forgot to tell them they were going into ai Merseyside derby with all the blood and thunder that goes into it. Not good, at all. I can accept that we lost. I can't accept that we did not fight.
25 Apr 2024 08:45:50
Folks I have seen so many opinions here
Peps book
Klopp announcement etc etc
The simple fact is
Everton have been so poor this season
A few good games
But Liverpool are not playing well since jota and jones got injured in that game … remember when someone fell on jota knee
Also szbos is a strange one I feel he’s not playing in his right position
The defence tactic is not good we ship goals
We always concede first
It feel like a very new team that’s not drilled and wil be hit and miss
So that’s why I have to give them a break
Next season I won’t
But for this game I can’t understand why they didn’t feel like it was a must win game in effort
That part is inexcusable.
25 Apr 2024 08:49:13
Agree with you there, Seano. I was there last night and Salah and Szob were getting pelters. Szob in particular doesn't have enough brownie points to prance about like a show pony, and that was made clear by people around me. At the moment he doesn't offer any more than a poor Henderson, and he needs to step up next season under our new manager. And I know that can be levelled at many more players. In fact, apart from Alisson, I don't know any player who escapes criticism.
25 Apr 2024 09:07:33
It is very concerning going forward that some players have down tools to the point of embarrassment. just because the going has got hard they have let the club and fans down. I understand that with Klopp leaving there’s going to a reaction weather it’s good or bad but there is no excuse for what has happened! What a very sad way for Klopp to leave.
25 Apr 2024 09:32:43
I don't think they've downed tools.
It's a combination of not being good enough, loss of confidence, tiredness and tactics.
I think the best example is TAA.
He's told to drift infield which leaves us exposed at the back. He bottles out of header which leads to their first goal, does nothing for their second, jibbed out of a tackle in the second half and jogged back.
But that's Trent. He'll never be Tommy Smith but he played some delightful balls in the first half, three of which should have led to goals. He needs to play but not in a dodgy defence with a flaky midfield in front of it.
The team tried but it was a team without the physicality or mentality to match Everton. They also don't have those attributes to play like City or the great Barcelona side.
The only positive is that we should have enough points to get top four and that was my aim at the start of the season.
25 Apr 2024 10:55:36
We need two wins to be comfortable Rigsby, two of our games are against Villa and Spurs who are competing for those positions too, Villa look in decent form but spurs are blowing hot and cold. So could easily turn up and be as bad as we are or somehow be just as bad. After the United, Atalanta, Palace and Everton matches it is hard to see how we’re going to get wins against teams who are either motivated to beat us and have something to play for.
25 Apr 2024 08:12:24
That was a dog ugly performance and it seemed like all they wanted to do was pass between each other at the back again. I seriously could not watch much more of that type of football and I agree that the nutty professor Lijnders has something to do with this awful style of football. Next season will be a breath of fresh air without him.
Klopp is great, but has let someone else sour his thoughts and it shows. That was the opposite of heavy metal football that seems to be a distant memory. But a good memory at least. I look forward to a improved style of football next year with excitement. I am sure we might get a forward who could Slot the ball in the back of the net also 😂😉.
25 Apr 2024 08:22:00
Ljinders should have been sacked after releasing his book - nothing about that was in anybody’s interest except his own. The less said about his tactical ideas the better.
25 Apr 2024 08:25:54
You are missing a very important point about midfielders. Our midfeidlers cannot run forward with the ball nor they can dribble to take a man. Everton played a low block and there was hardly any gaps. In such cases you either need your wide players to hit the byline or your central midfielders to run with the ball. Gravenberch for all his issues could do it.
Usually in klopp's whatever system the LCM is tasked to do this (keita / wijnaldum / thiago) Jones simply cannot. and Szobo is asked to play a DM rather than an ACM today.
25 Apr 2024 08:31:27
More scout spout.
25 Apr 2024 08:44:23
Exactly, Flash. How can the players do all these things the "Chief Scout" is going on about without even being ready to fight, scrap and earn the right to compete in a Merseyside derby. No matter how much ability you have, if you are not up for it the way Everton was, whatever qualities you have or don't have, won't matter. That is is the fundamentals of sport. No guts. No glory, all your ability be damned.
25 Apr 2024 08:51:34
I don't think we won anything playing heavy metal (cringe) football. We scored and conceded a lot of goals and it was thought to be unsustainable.
We became more pragmatic and won the League and CL. The midfield were disciplined but could win the ball and hold onto it. The front three could win the ball high up the field and create goals or break from our half and score goals.
We also had two very creative fullbacks one of whom had a terrific engine.
That team inevitably broke but let's not kid ourselves that it was the heavy metal side that Klopp had earlier in his Liverpool career.
25 Apr 2024 09:26:46
We reached the CL final twice and won the league playing heavy metal football, and had one bad season in between, what have we done since shifting to this possession based, inverted fullback nonsense? A league cup. I know which I’d rather win, I know which system would suit our players, and I know which system I’d rather watch.
25 Apr 2024 10:07:13
There’s 2 things I’ve noticed since the Man Utd game in particular.
Firstly we are scared to give the ball away so always play safe to the point where the forward players have stopped making runs because they know they won’t get the ball.
Secondly we are not winning the ball back quickly enough when we lose it.
We have been playing with fear and that has made us very twitchy on the ball and very passive off it. The defence drop too early which makes us way too open to press effectively and even when we do we are so passive that we lose pretty much every tackle.
Added to that we are so tense and fearful that we miss pretty much every chance we do create. People will point to Nunez and Salah and rightly so but it’s everyone. Robbo actually missed the ball completely when presented with a chance, Szob used to have a rocket on his right boot but scuffs every shot now, VVD has had numerous free headers and either misses the target or heads it to the keeper, Diaz, Jones, MacAllister they have all forgotten how to hit a clean strike. Trent tried to reach the kop end goal from Goodison with a couple of his efforts last night.
The criticism they are all getting is warranted, the performances have not been good enough but writing these players off as not good enough is extremely knee jerk and shows a total lack of understanding of human and sports psychology.
It’s not that they are not good enough, they have just realised the enormity of what they could achieve and they’ve frozen with the fear of failure. It happens every day in every sport and these players will be stronger for having these type of experiences.
I’m disappointed just like everyone else but I appreciate what Klopp and the players have put in this season to give us a trophy and a title challenge. It’s all gone a bit wrong but we dust ourselves down and we go again.
25 Apr 2024 10:09:07
We didn't win the League and CL final playing heavy metal football, Seano.
The season we won the League we would selectively press but could also be quite conservative. Henderson, Milner and Wijnaldum would just sit in front of the back four knowing the front three could always get a goal with our fullbacks often supplying them.
Think back to the CL win. It was a boring game. We got an early goal and sat in with the intention of not conceding.
It was not heavy metal football.
25 Apr 2024 08:01:53
been super busy at work and just caught up with various news (so really, don't know how Ed002 can keep up with his/ her day job, help in this site, and have some much info about many things)
1. Wow! I thought Chelsea may give Arsenal a game. the only match I see them potentially dropping points is now against Spurs. There is no way we can overturn the GD now. The loss to Palace at home is looking increasingly a very big missed chance for us.
2. City also doesn't look like dropping points, and hoping Spurs (again), may do some damage. The rest they have in between games is also adequate since they are out of CL. it really is theirs to lose now.
3. Arne Slot it seems will be our new manager. Know nothing about him, but am hoping he turns out good. From what I read, seems a nice guy, great man mgmt, attacking football. Let's hope he does well even though he was 3rd choice. Salah, the 4th choice turned out half decent yea?
Also, if he sticks by 4-2-3-1, will it be:
Alisson
Robbo (or new / younger LB)
VVD (or Hacko? )
Konate
Bradley
Endo
TAA (may allow his desire to be MF and utilize his passing range w/ o needing the inverted FB that is confusing and make use defensively vulnerable, but does need to do more defensively)
Gakpo / Diaz (I actually think the former may do better in this role)
Macallister (imagine the damage he can do to opposition as a 10)
Sobozslai (may bring out the best in him)
Nunez (but he does need to be a lot more clinical) .
Yes, I am thinking Salah will be off and probably should given how he has declined this season.
4. Derby day! following what Ed025 commented on another thread, I am sure he has kidnapped Gakpo so that the impending hat trick won't be happening. But here's hoping a good game and a win for us of course!
25 Apr 2024 08:30:01
A few of my mates say Arne slot is nothing without his assistant Marino Pusic (they won the league together last year ) And this year he left and Slot is losing to PSV managed by Peter Bosz who is notoriosuly famous for not winning the league. I don't know how much of this are actual truth but just putting it out there.
25 Apr 2024 08:42:09
Beekeeper only 1 football team in world football relies more on their assistant manager than their actual manager.
And that is us when we are not winning.
25 Apr 2024 10:45:28
Endo needs moving on asap. Aside from his first few games he has been awful and is a liability in possession as well as defensively.
25 Apr 2024 07:39:03
{Ed's Note - Nevada has posted a new article entitled, Is Arne Slot A Good Fit For Liverpool?
25 Apr 2024 07:07:39
I just wanted to congratulate Ed25 on his victory last night.
It's a pleasure to have helped you lot stay in PL. I admit it wouldn't be the same without you
As for us. I'm starting to worry that we might even lose out on top 4 right now.
Klopp looks lost and the players seem to have downed tools. Recipe for disaster
It's going to be a tough and nervy end of the season for us.
{Ed025's Note - you just never turned up JLC, you did have some good chances mind but your confidence looks shot, Liverpool will finish top 3 im sure of that mate but we all know it could and should have been so much better..
25 Apr 2024 07:27:13
To miss out on top four spurs realistically have to win all their games, they may beat us but they won’t beat both city and Arsenal.
If you look at the season purely as a result, top four and a trophy we’d have bitten your hand off in August. However we had hope of winning the lot and now it’s going to end on a flat note.
Really starting to question if there are any leaders in that dressing room as they should of spurred the team on after losing in the fa cup. Instead we have wilted, it’s like the mentality was 4 or nothing. A real shame to see klopps final season end like this but it’s been one hell of a ride.
And ed025 your boys simply wanted it more last night, you must be on cloud 9 this morning. Now excuse me, I’m off to live under a rock until next season starts.
{Ed025's Note - i was dreading it WYred but we bullied you mate and you ran out of ideas in the end mate, still a good season for the reds i feel ...but it could have been so much more..
25 Apr 2024 07:29:42
JLC I’ll be honest mate making such a suggestion that LFC players have downed tools for Klopp would usually be blasphemy.
But the truth is if we took off our red tinted glasses and watched last night and last few weeks as a neutral and it was another club with another manager I know my conclusion Would be it looks like they’ve downed tools (lost the dressing room etc) .
Klopp should be going out on his shield but currently he’s going out with a whimper.
Finishing above Spurs and Villa isn’t quite as nailed on as we imagined. Especially as we have both still to play.
{Ed025's Note - the fall out from last night may just be the kick up the arse you needed JK, you will easily make top 4 mate..
25 Apr 2024 07:40:00
I don't think the players have downed tools. Like Ed said, they are just lacking belief and confidence. I do agree that Klopp and his coaching team looks lost and can't seem to turn this around.
Personally, I feel that we are already out of the title race after last night's results. A bit of a downer after what was expected to be Klopp's farewell. Nonetheless, I would still wish for us to go all out for the last four games and get the maximum number of points still available.
25 Apr 2024 07:40:41
I cannot see us beting west ham, villa and Spurs. how are you so confident we will get a top 4 place ED025? Villa themselves are aiming for a CL spot and as is Spurs.
{Ed025's Note - because you are a better side mate, they will be more scared of you than you are of them, of course you will have to buck your ideas up but they are too far behind to be a real threat..
25 Apr 2024 07:40:45
We won't lose top four but I'm struggling to see the leaders in our side, at the minute. VVD and Mac, maybe but after that?
I never thought I'd be saying this but Gomez has to come in at right back against West Ham; at least until Bradley is back.
TAA is good enough to build a team around but not in the system or with the players we have.
I'd also consider playing Salah through the middle but only because of a lack of options and to get him closer to the goal.
{Ed025's Note - i would leave Salah out altogether Rigsby, he looks shot mate and has not been the same since the AFCON, great player of course but contributing very little at the moment im afraid..
25 Apr 2024 08:08:10
I forgot spurs had City and Arsenal to play to be honest.
Bit that tells a story that we are confident of getting top 4 because Spurs won’t over our capabilities.
Even dropping below Villa now will be seen as failure in my eyes.
And anyone who argues that it’s not I’ll just counter argue that a week ago we were going for the title in a 3 horse race so to then finish 4th can’t be seen as anything else.
25 Apr 2024 08:08:19
I'd leave him out, too, Ed025 but with Jota injured that only leaves Nunez whose confidence also looks shot. I can't have Gakpo there and I don't know whether Danns is ready to start on the run we are having.
It may be wishful thinking but get Salah through the middle, hope he takes a chance and finds some form.
{Ed025's Note - i would actually play Danns there Rigsby, yes hes still a bit raw but the guy has talent mate, lets be honest he cant do any worse than mo at the moment..
25 Apr 2024 08:39:25
Congrats Ed 25, reckon you guys will be safe now. Regarding this been the kick up the arse we needed, I was hoping Atalanta and Palace would have been enough of a wake up call. Hope we can put in some good performances before the season is out, at least finish playing some exciting football.
{Ed025's Note - with the announcement of the new manager it will give the team a bit of a boost i think Mic, mind you i thought with Klopp leaving it would have had a similar effect mate..
25 Apr 2024 08:41:28
@Jk
Then they will argue "if you told me at the start of the season" lol.
25 Apr 2024 09:04:11
The way we’re playing we could easily end the season and not win another game and finish behind both Spurs and Villa. Fulham were on the beach already, and we looked like that against Everton last night. Poor performance, no fight, too many mistakes.
25 Apr 2024 09:44:28
Players very rarely ‘down tools’. Not often do footballers consciously decide they can’t be bothered. Don’t like that phrase being used so liberally.
No, what this looks like is a group of players who have lost all confidence in what the manager is telling them to do. We have powered through this season on enthusiasm and vibes but when that runs out you need a solid way of playing that you can fall back on.
You can’t go back to basics if you don’t know what the basics are. We have routinely conceded first all season long. It is unforgiveable and we have got away with it for ages. When you have a knock in confidence like in the United cup game, you need to have some solidity to depend upon, a base to work from.
We don’t have that. The system is stupid and leaves us vulnerable. We never feel in control. That puts pressure on our forwards who, as we can see, are not good enough to deal with that pressure. So begins the vicious cycle; concede baffling goals at one end, balloon chance after chance at the other, heads drop, we lose/ draw, rinse and repeat. This is a psychologically draining way to approach football matches week after week.
The players are a reflection of the manager and his coaches. Fed up, checked out, mentally exhausted, but most of all lacking faith in what they are doing. The management don’t have any answers or impetus to provide those answers, and the players can feel it.
If people want to refer to it as ‘something behind the scenes’, whatever that means, i think that’s all it is. Nothing sinister, just a manager and coaches who have run their course and can’t take this group any further.
25 Apr 2024 10:00:53
Didn't Spurs recently get beat 4 nil at Newcastle?
JK, my counter argument to yours is that if top four was the target at the beginning of the season, isn't fourth- or even third- a success?
My argument is based on me never thinking we'd win the League anyway.
City and Arsenal had better squads than we did last season and they added to them whereas we had to rebuild the midfield and brought in Endo, Szob and Grav. None of which would regularly play for either of them.
25 Apr 2024 10:37:35
Doesn’t every team down tools against City though?
Or is the accusation they roll over for them not as condemning as downing tools.
Either way it’s the same outcome.