Liverpool Banter Archive October 09 2013

 

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09 Oct 2013 21:54:03
YK3 has a point.
Think he is referring to regular scorers. who get close to if not double figures. Gerrard yes but his goal return is diminishing. allen, moses and henderson? Ramsey at Arsenal has scored more than them put together. u can argue its a "one off" but Walcott did it last year for them. and there's always a goal threat from Cazorla, Wilshere and now Ozil etc.
Same for Chelsea. Mata scored more than those 3 put together. then there is Oscar, Lampard, Hazard, Ramires and now Willian etc
Spurs have goal threat through Eriksen, Sigurdsson, Paulinho, Chadhli. with now Lamela, Townsend etc who'll also get goals.
Utd too will get plenty through Fellaini, Valencia Carrick(albeit) occasionally. Nani. that new lad etc
City got Silva, Nasri, Toure even Milner that will get more goals than our midfield. Gerrard aside our midfield is rather lacking as a goal threat.

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You are right that we lack goals from midfield! but man u? they haven't got any goal scoring mids at all mate. also we have one thing arsenal tottenham chelsea don't have, two 20/30+ goal strikers. this is why were in the mix for the title, if arsenal and chelsea buy a top striker in jan they may be to tough to beat to top 4. but right now its pretty even in my eyes!

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Sturridge single handedly has more goals than all of Arsenal's strikers combined. More than all of Spurs strikers combined. More than all of Man U strikers combined. More than all of Chelsea's strikers combined. Suarez has played 2 games and is only one goal behind Giroud and Aguero. When you have strikers that can find the net, your midfielders don't need to score so many.

Let's enjoy our good start and positive position, and stop trying to find negatives. People need to cheer up a bit.

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Last season didn't downing score more goals than mani, young and valencia combined? or did they manage to surpass him.

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I think you are giving too much credit to other teams mate, I admit we don't have enough goals from midfield but neither do most other teams.
Ramsey is the exception due to his form so far this season but I don't think it will last, similar to Hendersons goal rush last season.
However Wilshere is not a reliable source of goals from midfield, he hasn't scored more than 10 for Arsenal so far in his career. Ozil is a creator, again not a goal scorer.
Chelsea are the exception but I would call their midfielders more forward players, Willian, Hazard, Oscar, Mata are always in the final third, not the middle of the pitch.
Sigurdson only scored 6 league goals for Spurs last season so he can't be relied on, Erikson, Paulinho, Chadli and Lamela are all new to the league and at the moment have less than 3 league goals between them.
Townsend is yet to score a league goal for Spurs.
In terms of United, Fellaini won't score as many as he did at Everton because he will be playing a deeper role, Valencia is not the same player he was before he got injured and hardly ever scores. Carrick and goals just don't go.
City again are similar to Chelsea but that's what happens when teams have a different level of spending power, they get better players.
From a Liverpool point of view, hopefuly Aspas will start scoring, Henderson will chip in with a few, as will Coutinho when he is fit again, Allen might find some form and Gerrard will score some. The most important thing is we have 2 world class strikers who will socre loads, more than can be said for Chelsea and Spurs at the moment.

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^^^^ your having a pop at most of the players mentioned above. then call sturridge world class! your deluded mate, yes he is on form! But world class. no! That word is banded around too easily

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In response to Chiswick:
Is Suarez World Class? Yes
Suarez stats: 19 goals in last 24 games

Sturridge stats: 19 goals in last 24 games.

Case closed

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You forget we have Coutinho who is currently injured and adds goals.

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10 Oct 2013 13:54:20
Jay 91.
Buddy then what about Benteke and Michu.If scoring goals makes you world clas. then Huntelar, Hernandez and welbeck would also have a good shout.
Can anyone take a freekick? Suarez, bale and Ronaldo would hit 9/10 times back of the net.
Sturridge is a very good player. so as RVP. we can call them the very best striker.
But world class is another level. Suarez is much more than a striker.

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Was not being negative. just an opinion with the view that with more of a goal threat from midfield would yield 3 points more often. it would complement our brilliant strike force.
To say some of the midfielders named from other teams such as Sigurdsson won't score many (only scored 6 last season). or Ozil, Ramsey etc may or may not prove to be correct. but the players YK3 mentioned. Allen, Hendo and Sterling (Gerrard aside) didn't score many in the League last year. and no midfielder has scored yet in open play this year. Buck Rodgers was not happy after Palace game and his frustrations were not aimed at our strikers. I'd take a guess he wanted more goals and obviously better ball retention and use of the ball.
and you have to remember fixtures have been good for us thus far (besides Utd we have not played anyone u would consider as posing a threat to us). I sincerely hope and wish we can keep the momentum going and hopefully strenghen come January.
Seriously if there wasn't a need for more goals/attacking threat . Would we have tried signing Mkhitaryan, Costa or Willian?

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In Response to Liverpres:
Arsenal had Henry, Wiltord and Bergkamp score a shed full. yet Pires . Llundberg scored loads as well as contrubutions from Viera and others.
Utd had Cole and Yorke. Solksjaer. yet Beckham, Scholes, Keane and Giggs got plenty goals.
Chelsea had Drogba. but plenty of goals from Lampard . Essien etc

To say that having top strikers means u don't need goals from midfield is utter rubbish!
If u have ambitions for the title its best to be a realist . It's not being negative or 'having a go', I am delighted with where we are but there's nothing wrong with being ambitious. As Shankly said "if you are 1st, you are 1st. if you are 2nd, you are NOTHING".

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Coutinho will score goals. Henderson will if he has the confidence to just put his laces through it (look at his form for the second half of last season). Moses will score goals for us. Gerrard always does. I don't see a big problem - especially when our front line is ridiculously dangerous.

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11 Oct 2013 08:19:00
Seano.
I am not sure about Henderson, But Moses will get dropped once Countinho comes in.
He is a terrible No.10 for me. BR sometimes amazes with his formation. Luis alberto was bought in to cover/comepte with countinho, and he finds himself in the bench.�
I am not moaning, But if someone finds this ok, then I am sorry

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11 Oct 2013 11:07:18
HArry Scousser, Welbeck scoring goals?didn't he get 1 in the prem last year?!

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09 Oct 2013 20:05:46
Gerrard should always be captain as long as he's playing - no question. Agger, vice because he's just shown nothing but 100% commitment to the cause. But, Toure sounds like a leader by his enthusiasm; go read his latest post on Liverpool website. He's great! So glad to have him!

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Funny was going to write the same thing about Toure. Been watching him on LFC tv and the guys a legend. He must lift the whole team with his experience, enthusiasm and 100% positive attitude.

Great signing and great to have him on board.

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09 Oct 2013 19:20:34
Gutted we didn't get in first for Cardiff's new head of recruitment. FSG out(!)

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09 Oct 2013 18:47:33
Question for a more knowledgeable Red than me - the flag of managers usually in the Kop has Shankly, Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish and Benitez. why not Houllier or Evans?
thanks

Paul

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I think it is a special flag that Benitez's inclusion is justified by 2005 Istanbul, isn't it just about right the way it is?

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The managers on the flag won old big ears.

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Just a guess like

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Shankly didn't win the european cup.

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Shankly & Kenny both won league titles.

Paisley, Fagan & Rafa all won the European Cup.

Evans & Houllier won neither, hence the reason why they are not included on the flag.

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Cheers nice one Dalglish Loyalist

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09 Oct 2013 18:01:10
Three words that will make us CL contenders and winners or the BPL. "GOAL SCORING MIDFIELDERS" this is what's lacking and with this solved we would turn draws into wins, losing into draws and wins would be blow outs or just plain embarrassment for the other team. LFC unfortunately has none of this at the moment which is disappointing to see. Bayern Munich is very successful because of this, just saying.

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Spot on yk3.

Mickey would've been the cherry on the sundae.

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09 Oct 2013 19:34:51
Goal scoring Midfielders. what is gerrard, allen, and henderson doing in our team?.
leave aside lucas as DM. how many more you wanna buy?

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Moses, sterling, Henderson and Gerard have all scored this season.

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Utd won d lge with rvps goals, we got 60 goals in sas, spurs utd and ars and chelsea just getting by with mid goals, strikers score u your bunch

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10 Oct 2013 03:52:26
We've also got Coutinho coming back very soon and his assists and goals, carried over a full season will be very important. I'm sure that Aspas can find a few goals in him as well. We have options and our scoring will come into full swing from midfielders as well as even our fullbacks with both Glen and Jose able to chip in a few each as well as get assists. Our centre backs get a few from set pieces occasionally as well, and with them being more aerially dominant than before, we've got a good unit of players who all have an eye for goal. Essentially what I'm saying is that we have goalscorers in every position and I'm sure most of them will have a goal to their name by the end of the season.

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Hey YK3 I se your concerns but I don't see any real problems. The first half of the season is always about grinding out results and trying things out. Injuries come along too due to International breaks and no solid club based consistency.

The midfielders will chip in but as the team becomes more balanced over the next couple of months the goals will come.

The important thing for us right now is not to be far off the pace of the leaders. Which we are not. Come January if this is still a problem I am sure it will be addressed. As it stands though I think we will be fine.

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10 Oct 2013 13:59:10
Forget Scoring. we need some bodies in the Box. apoart from suarez and Sturridge, add COuntinho, we actually don't have anyone.
Gerrard is a CM, Lusa is a DM, Henderson is a CM and Allen is a DLP.
We simply lack either two very good wingers or an ACM like countinho.
I would put my money on two Wingers to come in than ACM.
Aspas is agood little player, But when is he going to play?. Probably a couple of matches in the FA cup early rounds. or wait next season for League cup.
BR simply isn't giving any youngsters a chance ( Winning games, 3-0, 4-0 scoreline).
If martin kelly is Fit and yet not featuring as RW, then its a crime.

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Good shout Alfie

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09 Oct 2013 17:38:32
I know this won't happen but I would love Javier Hernandez, he is exactly what we need to put all those balls that roll harmlessly passed the face of goal in the 6. He is super quick and all he does is score,

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I agree Andrew, pure goal poacher, great eye for goal and great speed, and he is in papers talking about moving for regular football

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Agree with yah on this one mate. YNWA he is a true poacher and we don't got one

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Agreed lads, I think he is quality, but I can't see them selling him to us

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Terrific little player, lethal in and around the six-yard box. Reminds me of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, bring him on with ten minutes to go and he will grab you a goal or two.

Surprised Utd haven't utilised him more, he can't be happy warming the bench? Anyhow, there's not a cat in hells chance they would they sell him to us.

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He wants game time. has less chance starting for us than at united!

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Who would you take out to play him? Or are we doing a spurs & playing with extras?

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09 Oct 2013 15:20:33
Greetings all, Arsenal fan in peace.

I was hoping to track down Ed002 to ask him his thoughts on something, as he was sadly forced to leave our page because of a minority of imbeciles.

Ed002, If you or anyone else has any information or good sources that show how different clubs finance their activity that would be awesome. I'm curious about how Arsenal differ from clubs like United, Real Madrid and Barcelona, Juventus, Bayern etc. and which teams have the most question marks around them when it comes to corruption and shady business in football.

Controversial I know lol, but you are the best person I could think of to ask, I always like reading your opinions.

Have a great day!
Trinidad-Gooner {Ed002's Note - I am travelling right now but the high-profile clubs are heavily regulated now and what might have been shady practices in certain European countries (I guess particularly Italy) will largely have been removed from the sport. As for the finances of the clubs, probably "Deloitte's Football Money League" gives simple view on the subject of where the income comes from and, to some extent where it goes. The trouble is that looking at specifics you will not sensibly be able to compare like-for-like across borders (e.g. television money is significantly higher in the UK than elsewhere; distribution of TV money in Spain is far from balanced; some countries allow alcohol and tobacco advertising; some countries allow part ownership of players so transfer fees are less; some countries have home grown exemptions for players from Africa and elsewhere; some countries have restrictions on club ownership .... I could go on.}

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Ed002,

Great to hear back from you! Thanks for the heads up, I will check it out.

More and more recently I have been interested in just how far the corruption goes after UEFA revealed the match fixing problem going on in Europe. Also recently heard shady stuff about Real Madrid with the banks but as you rightly point out, it's very complex and confusing.

Enjoy your travels and I'll try to check back with you after doing some reading.

Thanks again,
Trinidad-Gooner {Ed002's Note - It is indeed complex. The situation with Real MAdrid was really a few years back and was seen to be tax efficient - you need to be very careful with the C word.}

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PSG and City getting huge sponsoring deals that clubs like man u can only dream of. {Ed002's Note - You might be surprised.}

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09 Oct 2013 16:56:45
Hi edd, have any clubs showed an interest in koke from atletico? very good atm and can only get better. Thanks {Ed001's Note - yes, but Atletico rejected interest in him over the summer. I do expect there to be renewed interest next summer, but don't see any chance of him moving in January.}

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09 Oct 2013 16:36:14
Afternoon guys.
Just been pondering towards Strikers. Now if Suarez leaves, either in Jan or summer, who would people like to see us go after?
I have seen us linked with Lacina Traore whom I know very little about, anyone got any info?
I think there are options closer to home in Remy and Benteke, depending on cost implications.
If we went abroad then I can't help thinking that we would go for a younger player like Tello, Delofeuo, Morata, Bakkali.
There are two young players that I think have massive futures that I would go for, one is Tonny Vilhenna and the other is Bakkali.

Any thoughts anyone?
Anfield Andy

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Personally I'd love to see LFC get a proven goal scorer not just a patch up job if Suarez leaves, eg. J Martinez from Porto or Benteke, fredy montero, Diego Costa just a good striker that puts the ball in the back of the net.

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09 Oct 2013 18:12:12
I asked this question on blog but no reply so would ask again here.this is to Ed01/Adam/others.we r aware that Suarez iseager to leave nd will leave either in jan or summer for sure. my question is there a like for like replacement for Suarez. I can only think of Aguero who we cannot afford nd Muriel. who they think can has same ability nd can replace suarez.thanks

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Hard to say think we would need a few players because saurez doesn't just add goals. Don't think an striker Jackson Martinez would work because of sturridge, would like to have someone who can play across the front 3 or more wide. Costa would be perfect but can't see it happening, I'd want either Muriel or Yarmolenko with konoplyanka being bought in as well. But is my biggest worry is saurez derailing our season by forcing a move through in the winter window as don't have pre-season to settle a player into the team

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09 Oct 2013 12:44:44
Okay, i'm going to be brave enough and ask this question.

Does anybody think we have a chance of winning the title this year?

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Of course we have a chance - true, a small one, and the team needs to give 200 %, but it does exist.
Still, best for all to keep our feet firmly on the ground, and simply enjoy an interesting competition.

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09 Oct 2013 13:38:14
I'm going to be brave and say it, yes a chance.

BUT, only if we sort out our second half performances. If a footbal match only lasted for 45 minutes we'd be top of the league with 19 points, 7 played, 6 won, 1 drawn, 10 scored, 1 conceded, good +9. As it happens we've dropped 3 points from our second half performances, 4 goals against, and completely lost control of every game, with only 1 goal scored to show for it. If Rodgers fixes that though, we are as good as anyone in the league.

YNWAdam

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Ask me again in the new year

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If we aim for 1st we might finish 4th.

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Theres always a chance.

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Please explain this one
If we aim for 1St we might finish 4th
Where is the logic please explain
I think with suarez and sturridge up top and our squad looking good after the international break I seriously think we the manager all changing its our best chance let's just go for it

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We have a chance for 3th spot, our squad is not balanced enought to win the league.
if we lose sturridge/suarez the gap to the other strikers is to big.
same goes for gerrard/lucas they need to play for the expierence.
sterling/ibe/alberto all very talented not ready yet.
br is playing not to concede a goal he has changed the tactics, this system will allow us to get more points than last season.
no injuries to key players will be key this season.

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While I don't think we shouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves, we haven't even had Suarez, Sturridge and Countinho together for many games at all. That is a pretty promising three and I guess with Moses and and or Sterling rotating the other wide position and with Johnson back and with some returning competition for left back and centre midfield and full selection of the back line available, there are plenty of positives to be seen. If we can develop in similar peaks to last year then we have a very interesting year ahead of us. But its a funny old game.

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09 Oct 2013 11:46:02
Interesting reading.

In 1988 Liverpool won the league by 9 points.
In 1989 Liverpool had the title snatched from their grasp by a last minute goal.
In 1990 Liverpool strolled to yet another league title.
From 1991-2013 Liverpool have failed to win the league title.

In 2011 Manchester United won the league by 9 points.
In 2012 Manchester United had the title snatched from their grasp by a last minute goal.
In 2013 Manchester United strolled to yet another league title.

Liverpool's demise came about when they replaced their successful Scottish manager (Dalglish) with another Scottish manager (Souness).

Manchester United have recently replaced their successful Scottish manager (Ferguson) with another Scottish manager (Moyes).

{Ed002's Note - You should take this to the conspiracy page - they'll read something in to this as well.}

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Ha, ha Ed002!

I'm just about to don my tinfoil hat!

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On that assumption that means it will be the 2035/36 season before ManUtd get close to the title again

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I love conspiracy thriller books. Don't forget all the co-incidents for the Istanbul win. That worked out for us. YNWA

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Do you remember the pendulum theory before '98?

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09 Oct 2013 11:33:26
Thanks for the reply 001 maybe I've stumbled across a potential improvement? Being able to post from the 'my recent posts page' back to the original thread? Although I can see why that maybe isn't the case (lots of posts to old arguments) but maybe something along those lines? A thank the eds button? {Ed002's Note - Then we would need a "Heck the Eds" button or similar.}

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Ok just a thought

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09 Oct 2013 11:28:24
Hey eds, who (in your opinion) will be given a chance from the u21's from what has been seen so far? Thanks {Ed001's Note - it will depend on injuries and form of the players currently in the side. If, for instance, Sturridge and Suarez got injured, Aspas struggles for form, then we are likely to see Morgan and/or Sinclair get a shot. If Moses now got injured, Sterling and Ibe would have a chance, maybe even Dunn. But I can't see into the future to know who will get injured, as that is most likely to be the deciding factor, unless someone steps up and forces their way into the team with some great performances at ressie level.}

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09 Oct 2013 13:28:29
I cannot tell you who has the best chance of playing for the same reason as Ed001, but I can tell you who is knocking on the door and who will be.

U21's + Kelly:

Danny Ward is currently top dog in the goalkeeping department. But will only ever be 3rd choice unless we have a Reina-Doni-Red fiasco again. Haven't really seen any of the others stand out to be honest.

In term of full/wing backs Robinson and Flannagan seem to have compeltely faded. Robbo is doing well but not amazing at Blackpool and Flannagan has just stalled compeltely due to injury (his lack of pace wil see to it he never plays right back in the Premier league). Ryan McLaughlin, Brad Smith and Alex O'Hanlon are all very good wing backs though, although Smith is just back from a serious injury and O'Hanlon is still too young (and being deployed as a winger more often nowadays).

In terms of centre backs, Sama, Kelly and Wisdom are all doing well at reserve level, but are struggling to get game time in the first team. I doubt Sama will ever be first choice, but he's quite good and Kelly needs to sort out his injuries. Wisdom will likely be a very good centre back one day, but he will have competition. New signing Tiago Ilori will be brilliant one day, as will Lloyd Jones. They are both actually very similar in style (tall, quick, composed, good on the ball) and just need to fill out. There are a few others, Sokolik always impresses me but I haven't seen any of him this season. Coates career here is proabably as knackered as his knee. He seemed out of favour even before that injury.

Defensive midfielders. By far the best in our accademy is Marc Pelosi. He's something else and will be something special one day, but only if he recovers well from possibly the worst leg break i've seen since Aaron Ramsey. He's been likened to Gareth Barry, which is not an insult if you saw him in his Villa days. Yalany Baio has been doing well also, but probably lacks the technical ability for our style. He is a machine though. Connor Coady has gone and done a 'Jay Spearing' on us. Showed promise all the way up until he joined the first team, and is now under whelming everybody out on loan in the football league. Really thought he would wear the armband one day, but that looks very unlikely now.

Midfiedlers. Jordan Rossiter is by far the most promising, but he's still way too young to get any first team games for at least another year. We don't want to dent his confidence. Craig Roddan is a good player, but appears to be too 'Jack of All trades' for the first team coaches. He should be in with the first team training by now, but hasn't got near it as far as I know. Nacho and Pablo Chiverella are doing well in the lower age groups, but will not be ready in the short term.

'Wingers'. Jack Dunn is actually the most impressive for me, but has been playing more centrally of late. Raheem Sterlings progress (or lack of) is well documented around here, but he will come good, mark my words. I've watched him since he was 15 and he has something special. He just lacks the confidence and strength to make it in mens football for now. Jordan Ibe is the best all round player here though, and does whatever attacking job is required of him brilliantly. Probably the best U19 player at the club right now. He can play anywhere across the front 3, or even the number 10 role.

Attacking midfielders. Joao Carlos Texeira is one of the best at this moment, but he's just back from an injury, and a failed loan. He was apparently too weak for the more physical lower divisions. We obviously have Luis Alberto in and around the first team already, but he seems like he needs time to get used to English football. A young lad Dan Trickett-Smith is also very good here, but he is too young for now. Cameron Brannagan has been outstanding since he stepped up to the ressies and probably has more natural ability than any of the afformentioned. He genuinely looks Spanish in terms of his play. Chritian Adorjan has had a mixed loan so far with Groningen with a few goals and a red card to his name, but he's playing okay. Coutinho, well enough said. Quality player, just needs to keep developing. The best attacking midfielder we have though is unfortuantely in Spain showing Almeria and the rest of La Liga why they should sign him next summer (god I hope not!). Suso is rippnig the league apart chipping in with Goals, Assists, key passes and key dribbles every week.

Strikers. Samed Yesil is just back from an injury, but the Germans call him 'Gerd'. That says it all really. Adam Morgan seems to have gotten himself together and appears desperate not to do a 'Neil Mellor'. Scored a goal of the season contender the other week. Jerome Sinclair has gone back to the lower age groups to continue his development, but he reminds me of a young Michael Owen. He's seriously talented. Michael Ngoo is currently dissapointing at Yeovil. He has what it takes, but can't seem to apply it right now. Borini is warming Sunderlands bench instead now in what looks like the worst loan move in history as of yet. Sergi Canos is doing well for the youth sides as well from what I hear, but I haven't seen him play yet.

Hope this gives you more of an idea. Hard to say who will be first through the doors at Melwood though. Obviously some of these players are already training with the first team, but breaking into the team is a different matter. So far, Coutinho is the only one who's doing so regularly, but he's injured until the end of the month.

YNWAdam

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A very informative piece as usual adam. have they not offered you a guest editorship yet? cheers

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Nacho has left the club Adam. Also I am not sure whether Chirivella and Canos have been granted international clearance.

I assume you didn't mention McLaughlin as everyone knows him?

Also, Ryan Kent, Ojo and Harry Wilson in the Youth team are ones to look out for.

Everything else, exavtly as Ithink.

PS, Bijev might move on now.

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09 Oct 2013 15:43:49
Cheers AG. Haven't caught any of the U18's this season so was not aware Nacho had left us. Any idea why? I thought he was a great little player. I did mention McLaughlin, but only briefly as if I'd gone into depth on all of the above, you'd still be reading it now haha!

Harry Wilson and Ojo have impressed me. Didn't mention them as they are only about 15 I think so are a few years off even the ressies but I've heard Ojo is phenominal.

I heard Canos and Chivarella played really well in a tournament in the summer? I've only managed to watch the ressies so far this season unfortunately so I'm a bit behind on the U18's and U16's. Kent must be a new one on the scene as I don't recall ever watching him play. I do not particularly rate Bijev much either. Be a shame if he left at such a young age though.

Cheers though AG, nice to hear a second opinion. Thanks for the Nacho correction too. Gutted on him though.

A temporary Editor? Haha, I doubt it evolution, Ed002 is scared of the competition ;)

YNWAdam

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Nacho is an attacking midfielder/second striker and I understand that he was let go because the club feels there are enough options in that area. Also, he is 20 now I think and should be in the fringes of first team, but probably they felt he wan not quite going to make it?

Canos and Chirivella played the Milk Cup, which is like some sort of international tournament and didn't require any clearance I think. The clearance will enable them to play in the PL/U-21's etc.

Kent has been involved in the U-18's I think on a regular basis I think. Also, they tried Ojo as an attacking midfielder.

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09 Oct 2013 18:04:57
Everyone seems to be saying tht we have the best acadamy in the country but I doubt.ed1 has been saying tht Manchester United acadamy has regressed but still they produced talents like Pogba, Januza and Morrisson who are exceptional talent. compared to tht we are yet to produce such talents. somy question to Adam & Ed01 is do they still think we are best acadamy in the country nd do we hve players in our acadamy who r as good as those three players.would b waiting for the reply. thanks {Ed001's Note - I think the best academy in the country is Crewe's, purely because they have such a low standard of player to begin with. The likes of Liverpool, Everton, Man City, Man Utd, Stoke etc all get first pick of kids in their area. Southampton churn out the best players, but they do have the pick of the south coast, but their academy is far ahead of ours. Man Utd never produced any of those players that you mentioned, Pogba and Januzaj were bought, like Sterling and Ibe for us, Morrison only signed for them in 2009, when almost fully developed anyway. Their academy has lacked investment throughout the Fergie years and so has fallen off the pace badly. If they didn't have the pick of the best talent, they would produce nothing, certainly there is little in the way of improvement made to the players they do get while there. Man City, on the other hand, have invested heavily in their academy, their youth teams are looking good, as are Chelsea's. The other outstanding youth system in England, off the top of my head, is Villa's. Their academy stands alongside anyone else's as top class, probably ahead of ours right now, though they are further along the line of developing their own players than we are. Everton have a decent academy too, though it lacks the investment of many other clubs, purely due to lack of funds, which is likely to affect the quality of player coming through over the next few years. You have to remember, it takes 10 years for the full effects of changes to the academy to be seen.}

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09 Oct 2013 10:47:56
Hi all,

Want to make a post about Gerrard in wake of much discussion on his position and even his validity in the first team.

IMO Gerrard is best deployed where he is currently employed, especially in the current 3 5 2 we are playing. With our use of full backs to provide width and two strikers, both of who are comfortable to drop left or right to receive the ball, we need the long diagonal pass. Not many players can play it like Gerarrd - maybe 4 or 5 I know in Europe. And we can use that ball when breaking quickly as well as attempting it to put players through down the middle, though this will be unlikely to be attempted whilst Coutinho is playing.

Suggestions as a dynamno coming off the bench are crazy Gerrard's passing range can create width and stretch play. Not using him will narrow us and make the 3-5-2 very narrow.

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09 Oct 2013 12:46:08
My only quarrel with this is that we do not want to be playing long diagonals. As soon as you put the ball in the air, you have created a 50/50 chance of losing possession. The pass could either incur an aerial duel, give a defender a chance to get tight to the man receiving the pass, or the player receiving the pass may be forced to control awkwardly. Rodgers style dictates that we maintain possession and do not risk the ball. However, Gerrard cannot play this style. Rodgers has altered his style around Gerrard to suit his hollywood game. Do we really want to be stuck playing counter attacking football all over again? That's what cost us the title in Rafa's years. Our midfield had a complete inability to push up as Mascherano did not have the technical or passing ability to do so, and Alonso did not have the legs to do it by himself and chose to sit deeper. So we saw a string of defensive performances where we ended up sitting way too deep. Gerrard playing as a central midfielder is forcing us to play that same style, albeit in a different formation. We need mobile midfielders who can keep the ball and press the opposition. How often do you see Xavi or Iniesta spray a 50 yard diagonal? Not very often. Are they therefore bad midfielders? Are they hell! You are right, we cannot afford to drop Gerrard playing this style, as nobody else could initiate a counter attack like he does. Most people suggesting we drop Gerrard or push him further forward though do not want us to play this style. We should be taking the game to the opposition. Gerrard will still get the odd occasion to play a beautiful cross field pass, but we will be sat further up the pitch in general, and keepnig much better possession as well. Gerrard is not a bad midfielder if you want to play to suit him (like England do), but the style Rodgers has tried to blend into this counter attacking stuff is much more modern, much better, but requires different types of midfielders. Henderson and Allen would be brilliant together or with either one alongside Lucas. Our midfield lacks energy and is sitting too deep. It doesn't have to be that way though, and we don't have to have a 6kg medicine ball chained to Gerrards left leg. Let him loose for gods sake for as long as he possibly can. A 100% Stevie G for 30 minutes (maybe even 60 every so often, depending on how fit he still is) is better than a 50% Gerrard for 90 minutes every week. We are not controlling games well enough with him in the middle because he quite simply is not a defensive/deep lying midfielder. How much did we all used to moan about Rafa using players out of position (Keane, Kuyt, Aurelio, Lucas etc), and now we are supporting it? We've had a relatively easy start to this season so far, and if we keep up these second half performances, the first good team we play will pick us off. Southampton and Swansea did, and they are realistically only top 10 contenders. Imagine what Arsenal or City would do to us if we sat in our own penalty box for 45 minutes? I still love Gerrard, but he's being so poorly utilised at both club and international level. There is a reason Rafa, Houllier, Sven, McClaren, Capello etc all used him right mid, attacking mid, or left mid. Only Hodgson, Dalglish and Rafa in his last season have tried to make him into something he's not (and now Rodgers) and look at where it's gotten us? The first season we put Gerrard in Central midfield we came 7th and the highest we've managed since is 6th, he has failed to score anywhere near as many goals, and Torres fell to bits due to a lack of attacking support. Every season we used to have one of the best defensive records in the league with Alonso, Lucas, Sissoko and Mascherano. Gerrard doesn't play like any of them though, and we cannot turn him into Alonso just because he has a similar passing range. I am so pleased with how well we are doing and think Rodgers is doing a great job, but if he doesn't start playing Gerrard in his proper position, it's going to hurt our season because we will continue to lose every second half for the next 8 months. Gerrard is match winner, and one of only 4/5 we have in our squad (Sturridge, Suarez, Coutinho and maybe Moses are the other 4) so why are we wasting him? Best description I've seen so far was MIKEY1985 I think? He said "Gerrard is being spread too thin". Never have truer words been spoken. Let him play his own game for as long as he can, not a shackled game for 90 mins a week. Would you rather have half a piece of buttered toast, or a whole piece with butter spread so thin you cannot taste it? Terrible metphor I know, I won't quit my day job!

YNWAdam

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I don't disagree with your argument outside of having concerns over his speed. Can he still beat a man often enough and well enough? Maybe he can, I am not convinced anymore. No disrespect at all, but he is not young, plays 90 mins for club and country in an high impact nature. It takes its toll. I would love for his England career to be over(but then I am an Aussie). I think he would do better for the rest.

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09 Oct 2013 08:45:26
Hey Eds, just posted a reply to the post that said I'd posted a blog, and the whole thread seems to have disappeared!

YNWAdam {Ed002's Note - Because (1) I don't want you telling other posters what they can and cannot do, and (b) it was simply a pointer elsewhere that you were replying to in order to turn it in to a post of its own. We don't want that, so it has been deleted.}

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09 Oct 2013 09:10:57
I thought it was more advisory to be honest Ed. I was merely trying to give Harry a few tips on how to present his argument so he didn't get so much hatred, including some from the Editors on the odd occasion I even told him not to change his views for anyone. I accept your decision, but I think its a bit drastic to say I was telling him what to do and then to delete the entire thread. From where I'm sitting, it looked like I was the first person on here to actually talk to Harry as an equal human being, and not like trash.

If you don't wish to post this reply either than please delete this thread too as the initial note you added makes it look as though I was bullying Harry, when that's simply not the case. I have no problems with anybody on this site posting whatever they want, including the Editors. I enjoy the banter. I just think that there has been some actually insulting posts towards Harry and others that have made it onto the site, and mine was actually just friendly advice and got deleted. I'm not angry and appreciate what you are saying, but I am slightly dissapointed. It won't stop me using the site though as my second reply said, this is still the best site around because of the people running it, yourself included.

YNWAdam {Ed002's Note - Thanks Adam but we really don't need you to be providing advice to Harry or anyone else. I don't have the time or inclination to edit any Agony Aunt type posts and will simply delete any threads that are heading in such a direction or attracting abuse etc.. Folks are free to discuss transfers and most soccer related issues here and I will answer questions etc., but gossip, social welfare, advice about personal grooming et al belong elsewhere.}

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09 Oct 2013 09:58:17
YNWA and ED.
I am not sure, what's my fault. But regarless. I have been slated here more than anyone.
But I am enjoying and take it in good spirit.
You simply cannot open your mouth against any players (Under-performing).
Seems its just at me, some folks here are doing this from months.
I don't know what will happen, If Liverpool are beaten by a large margin by any club. {Ed002's Note - It will be like it has always been Harry, the posters will trash the owners, the management, the players and each other.}

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. as a legend once said "Football is not a matter of Life and Death. its much more important than that. "

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09 Oct 2013 11:11:21
ED02, Never I ever I have slated the Owners. My post histories sepaks itself.
Yes I have criticized KK of his awful signings. BR of some of his weird Subsitituins and some signings.
Players when they perform. continoulsy awful.
If any person finds positive in all the above, isn't Normal. {Ed002's Note - Nobody suggested you had. Read the posts more carefully.}

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As usual ED002 takes a balanced and fair view of the posts. If he decides to delete posts, including my own ( for whatever reason ) I accept his decision totally, with dignity and reverence
Rock on ED002, great job as usual

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