Liverpool Banter Archive November 09 2017

 

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09 Nov 2017 19:28:58
Now for an interesting question.

Who will Lallana be replacing as he is rumoured to be back soon.

Not his biggest fan but if you compare him to the player he was under Rodgers vs Klopp, I actually do not mind him starting for us.

Believable2 Unbelievable3

09 Nov 2017 19:44:28
I don't think he will replace anyone immediately, I would imagine he will be eased in from the bench and if it gets to a point where he is playing well enough to take someone's spot he will take it. I don't think it is as black and white as he will come in for one player or another.


09 Nov 2017 20:01:28
Class player though will add a lot to the squad we have missed him.


09 Nov 2017 20:42:13
Yeah I think It'll go like that too Den mate. Still, looking forward to his return, anybody know how long he's out for now?


09 Nov 2017 21:25:57
He should've on the bench against Saints.
When he is up to speed I believe he will replace Can in the starting 11.


09 Nov 2017 21:33:42
I work with a guy who’s brother went to school with him. They are still friends now. He said he starts training with the team again tomorrow.


10 Nov 2017 06:17:47
Depends on the system Klopp plays each game, for me.

In the 4-3-3 he takes either Can/ Milners place.

In the 4-4-2 we played against West Ham he doesn't get in the team for me.


10 Nov 2017 06:21:11
When fit Hendo and Lallana will start in our midfield three. Third place depends on what happens with Coutinho.


10 Nov 2017 06:24:05
I expect it’ll be a Hendo, Lallana, Gini midfield when everyone's fit again, with Can being used where physicality is required and as impact sub

We have games every 3-4 days until the NY after this international break, we’ll need all the players.


10 Nov 2017 06:39:22
The reason I think it will be Can is because he wants out and won't sign a new deal, whereas Hendo is our captain.


10 Nov 2017 07:08:11
Putney

Wijnaldum will start. He is one CM Klopp wouldn’t drop for anyone!


10 Nov 2017 10:16:09
Harry there is no denying Can is a good player. I just think Wijnaldum, Henderson and Lallana are our only midfielders who have the mobility Klopp wants, hence why they're all first choice when fit. Keita beats them all for mobility though so he will usurp them all as first choice!

That does make me worry slightly for Grujic. If Can is not mobile enough for Klopp, then i struggle to see how Grujic fits in long term. He has a lot of talent though so hopefully he can adapt and as we discussed the other day, i won't write him off yet.

I would not be at all surprised to see our midfield options going forward be Gini, Keita, Lallana and Henderson; with Arnold, Woodburn and Ejaria seeing more gametime from next season. I expect Gini and Keita will be first names on the team sheet because they are Klopps's signings, they are the youngest of the senior players, and they can run the quickest. If we play a 3 man midfield then you'd say either of Henderson or Lallana could play alongside them. In a two man midfield though, Gini and Keita have the versatility, the attributes and the legs to cope alone.

At the end of the day, Klopp likes to swarm the opposition in midfield, irrespective of the system or formation. He just believes in always putting pressure on the ball as a unit. So players like Can, Grujic and even Milner who are slow to accelerate/ turn and relatively clumsy really don't suit what he is trying to achieve long term, despite all being decent players in their own right. We may not agree with Klopp, but it's just how it is.


10 Nov 2017 10:41:47
Looking slightly further ahead (January), Lallana will have replaced Coutinho as the most advanced of our three midfielders. The Coutinho fee will be spent elsewhere in the team.


10 Nov 2017 11:11:40
Easy for me, Can dropped.

Klopp doesn't rate him and he's not committed to the club so why play a player who is not in it for the long term whether that's his fault of not he is going that is certain. I wouldn't be surprised if the deal wasn't already in place for an end of season transfer to Juve but they just cannot announce till Jan in order to avoid issues.

Can out Lallana in and instantly we have a better blend in the middle 3.


10 Nov 2017 11:23:49
Not sure what you mean by mobility of a midfielder that has to sit deep, Start an attack or protect the two poor center backs!
If Keita comes in then he takes Wijnaldum’s place, the one who will drive and carry the ball from the midfidld. Coutinho is repealed by I don’t know who but a starter who will be our Attacking midfielder or Playmaker.

That leaves us with only one position that is the deep midfielder or DM or a deep lying holding midfielder which Henderson is not! And I truly believe Klopp has learned enough from his B2B experiment and would look into buy a player like Weigl / Sahin

I have said a week ago Grujic has no future at the club which you quickly dismissed calling me naive!

Mobility of a player doesn’t mean chase every ball, press every ball and get into the frames of camera every now and then! Xavi Alonso was the greatest midfielder to play infront of the Center backs and he hardly sweat on the football pitch.

We need a calm and composed CM to sit infrornt of the CB’s allowing Kieta and Brandt to attack in license.

I would have absolutely developed Can into that role not just as a Wanyama but as a Dembele! He is almost there. Isn't he?


10 Nov 2017 12:06:03
By mobility i mean speed, acceleration, agility, balance etc. Can has speed to some extent, but that is it from those attributes. It means that if he attempts to press, players can just side step him and leave him for dust. Whereas with Henderson, Gini and Lallana they can press more effectively because they can change direction and accelerate quicker.

I agree with you that mobility is not a necessary requirement of a holding midfielder. However Can does not want to play there. He wants to be further forward, so his career here is over. Grujic on the other hand has shown a desire to learn the holding role in the u23's. It is that willingness to learn a new role which makes it impossible to write him off just yet. If he can't adapt, he will have to move on because he is also too clumsy to effectively press the opposition. I told you at the time, i wasn't saying he would make it here, and that my argument was just that it is too early to categorically say he won't. I predict that he won't, but you weren't predicting. You were stating it as though it was a forgone conclusion.

As you rightly say, a holding player does not have to press. They sit and shield. Standing still and blocking players from going past you requires positional awareness and timing of the tackle. To some extent, strength is also important, but not a necessity. However running at somebody to make a tackle requires agility, acceleration and balance; hence why Kante is the best in the business at doing that. If the player you are trying to tackle turns or changes direction, you need to be able to readjust your body quickly so that you don't end up on the wrong side of the ball. If you do though, you need the acceleration to quickly get back on the right side!

I agree with you that we need a player in between the midfield and defence in certain games. It is why I wrote an entire article arguing that exact point! If Can doesn't want to play that role though, then what can we do about it? He isn't built to press (as is required in our advanced roles) so he has to move on to be replaced by someone who is; Keita.

Even if we do sign a defensive midfielder (and i hope we do for use in certain games), i highly doubt it will be a destroyer or a deep lying playmaker. Far more likely it will be a more mobile midfielder who is just defensively minded; as proven by the interest we showed in Obiang last summer, and the fact that Lucas was sold. Klopp's philosophy has evolved since the days of Nuri Sahin. He even put Bender into defence before he left BVB because he was too slow for his midfield system. Klopp's midfield has to hunt as a pack. He doesn't want to win the ball back on the edge of his own box, he wants to win it back as high up the pitch as possible. So he won't play an auxiliary centre back in midfield who waits for the opposition to travel 80 yards before they put in a tackle. Klopp doesn't believe in that. It really is that simple.


10 Nov 2017 13:32:46
Interesting that so many people see Wiji as a first choice, I'm fairly certain that's not Klopp's view. He's certainly not ahead of Hendo or Lallana and will obviously be behind Keita. The plan was to play Couts as the third midfielder, if that's changed then Wiji plays, if not then Wiji goes to the bench.


10 Nov 2017 13:55:22
Brandt?


11 Nov 2017 12:32:09
Okay! I'll cross your post on para by para.

First Can has not expressed any desire to play high up the pitch or anywhere perticular on the pitch. He wants regular playing time and that is all he want from Klopp! So you are blatantly wrong on that assumption.

Lallana and Can are different players with different attributes completely. I don’t know what you mean by Can not reaching the same level of Lallana. He shouldn’t as he is not! Can brings something different that Lallana could only dream or would never bring to. I would rather have 2 different players than two similar Lallana’s.

Henderson is not mobile! Simply Not! You are biased and that’s is your call! I am not going to impose my view on you!

Grujic will not get any time on the first team next season with AOC also knocking the door from the bench for regular playing time preferably in the midfiled. He would be first loaned and eventually departed ( you can star my post on it )

Effective pressing - you have to be cleaver when to press and when not to! Our biggest downfall under Klopp or why he is slowing withdrawing his fav press from the game is largely down to the players having no clue on when to press and when not to!

Leaving your space / position wide open to press an opponent player is pure dumb something I wouldn’t want my deepest player to do in any emergency.

Deep midfielders - His role is not to press, Period! It is when he tries to charge forward that expose the CB.

Kante is an old school CM in the mold of a mature Can or a better version or Mousa Dembele.

Your last para i don't know where did you find that! Can’s only weakness is at times he act like a child on the pitch with no interest on the game. Nothing to do with his own box or opposition box

We need a mobile midfielder - I am sorry but we don’t need need another AOC! We need a holding midfielder not someone who will run up and down! I have signed many at my disposal.

Klopp’s midfiled - I have no interest in his choices.
He might buy a few more Milners and ask them to play an Eric Dier.
He like runners and why he doesn’t rate Can! Nothing to do with his quality!


09 Nov 2017 19:00:20
Saw someone asking about Clyne. Well, there must be a reason why he is still not able to play and the fact that two youngsters have taken his place?

Drum roll.

Maybe just maybe Clyne knows he has an uphill battle and could already be looking at greener pastures.

Believable3 Unbelievable4

09 Nov 2017 19:41:09
He is injuried. Simples.


09 Nov 2017 19:51:37
Coutinho is "injured" too right?

You do know that Liverpool have tried to get rid of Clyne before?

Whether Clyne is injured or not, he has two youngsters who are better than him to contend with and fact of the matter is that his starting place has been usurped.

Blind man can even notice that.


09 Nov 2017 20:33:11
I thought the reality of Clyne's fitness problems wasn't in doubt and he is actually recovering from injury and unable to play, but maybe Ed001 will correct me if I'm wrong.

That being said, I expect him to have a very tough time getting back into the team when he's fit again and he could well be sold. I could see Klopp putting him ahead of TAA for the time being (although I wouldn't if I were the manager), but not ahead of Gomez.


09 Nov 2017 20:39:55
"Klopp putting him ahead of TAA for the time being"

If Clyne is able to put in a better delivery or step up to score a wonder goal.

What Gomez and TAA have produced so far just shows how poor Clyne has been for us. That is not me taking a stab at Clyne, it is the absolute proof.

Clyne is still the same player he was ever since joining LFC.

i. e.

Run as quick as you can up and down the pitch.


09 Nov 2017 20:58:26
Actually I think Clyne's gotten worse as a player since joining, max. He was decent enough when he signed, but last year he was just awful, particularly with how slow he was moving the ball.

As I said, I wouldn't put Clyne ahead of TAA if it was up to me, but managers sometimes get a fixation with experience. It's not impossible that in a big game where Gomez is unavailable, Klopp might look at matches where TAA's been exposed defensively and opt for Clyne.

It's just a feeling I have and I'm probably wrong. Hopefully I am anyway.


10 Nov 2017 06:22:36
Gomez may keep Clyne out of the team but TAA won't, he can be bullied to easily at the moment.


10 Nov 2017 08:09:46
Agreed Putney which makes me want him to have more time on the pitch. More experience would boost his confidence especially if Clyne was fit and he was ahead of him, which in my opinion he should be. Clyne is not good enough, never was.


10 Nov 2017 18:09:56
Injury or not, it is no secret that Klopp does not rate Clyne and never has. In fact, we were looking to replace him last season and Klopp already wanted to get TAA games last season and did get him games. This has nothing to do with his injury or not. Clyne is not a patch on TAA offensively or Gomez defensively and Gomez is not even a RB.


Premier League Transfer Window Assessment Revisited

09 Nov 2017 17:40:55
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Premier League Transfer Window Assessment Revisited

Believable7 Unbelievable0

09 Nov 2017 21:46:00
Enjoyed that ed. Well written.


{Ed001's Note - thank you very much mate.}

09 Nov 2017 23:22:53
Another good one Ed001, interesting to read about other teams as I don't follow all of them, thanks mate.


{Ed001's Note - thank you mate glad you enjoyed.}

09 Nov 2017 23:56:19
Good article, one mistake though ed (sorry) but Brighton finished second and got pomoted that way and not the play offs.


{Ed001's Note - no need to apologise, you are right. Thank you for pointing that out.}

10 Nov 2017 06:16:01
Thanks Ed. Brilliant article mate!

Just to let you know though, Huddersfield came up through the play offs, not Brighton!

That was an excellent read though.


09 Nov 2017 16:59:22
hi. Recently I keep hearing the term "inside forwards" could someone explain the position to me please as I have never heard of it? thanks.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed025's Note - when i was younger all teams played with inside forwards superred, it was part of a very attacking system where 5 played up front, the inside forwards played between the winger and centre forward though slightly behind, they would probably be seen as attacking midfielders these days mate..

09 Nov 2017 17:23:46
basically right and left sided attacking midfielders.


09 Nov 2017 17:23:46
basically right and left sided attacking midfielders.


09 Nov 2017 17:53:29
But behind the centre forward, or striker .


09 Nov 2017 17:19:26
thank you ed025.


{Ed025's Note - no problem mate..

09 Nov 2017 19:04:57
The no. 10 in that era, played the support striker/ playmaker position just like Pele played behind Tostao (the true CF in that 1970 WC team) or KK played behind Rush or Baggio played behind Casiraghi or Toto Schilacci. Brilliant times, Ed01.


10 Nov 2017 02:19:01
I thought the closest we had to inside forwards nowadays was the inverted winger?


10 Nov 2017 06:19:36
Lorenzo Insigne is an inside wide forward!


09 Nov 2017 15:06:13
Hi ED2, I know you're a busy man living the bachelor lifestyle travelling the four corners of the world but if you can let me know what's the best way in getting your child into a football club, sorry if it sounds like a daft question. I know there are of course children that get scouted playing for their schools or local teams but talking in terms of league team academies. I have heard of a growing number of young boys opting to learn their trade in academies abroad, what is your opinion on this and which countries if any or clubs have a strong reputation in nurturing young talent?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - they are paid academies. But, personally I would not recommend you put your child through one at this time. If I was to recommend one, it would be the La Liga academy in the UAE or Aspire in Qatar.}

09 Nov 2017 15:20:33
Thanks for the quick response and will make a note of those countries but out of curiosity hows comes you would recommend on holding tight on putting them through one at this time?


{Ed001's Note - because I don't think they are the best environment for children. They should be enjoying being children not pressured into academy football. Let them play with local sides, if they are good enough they will get scouted. Once they hit about 14, when they sign schoolboy forms, is the time to worry about academies.}

09 Nov 2017 16:55:55
if your kid is playing in the sunday league or kids league and make it into the top (or A) league for your area then scouts will watch and your kid will be invited to train with the local academy or school of excellence. A few boys from one of my team were picked. I was gutted as I felt I was better than one or two of them. I was pretty skinny though tbf.


09 Nov 2017 17:37:14
Ed is right saying age 14 is an age to look at your child's development more seriously but that does not necessarily mean that at a younger age academy football can't be enjoyable and beneficial. I think it benefits them to do both as long as you research well before deciding which academy is right for your child. The coaching should be of a higher standard at academies so your child can enjoy the best of both worlds. Fun and enjoyment with friends with lower coaching standard at a local club and mixing and making new friends with higher standard of coaching at an academy.


09 Nov 2017 19:55:55
The coaching should be better at academies but not necessarily so. i've watched a few in my area both running training sessions and at matches and some of them are pretty ordinary. There is a lot of pressure on them to win and this can come at the cost of the kids improving. So kids are taught to play safe and not take risks. To follow orders and not learn to think for themselves. And if you aren't in the best 11 then you can struggle for game time if the coach doesn't have a policy of sharing game time around. Plus they can pigeon hole your child into one position which will also stifle their development. However some are very good. So before signing your kid up to an academy, my advice is to go to some of their training sessions. Watch how they speak to the kids. Do they have a plan for the session. Are they able to explain it to the kids. Are the sessions fun. Do they teach the kids the skills they need. Do they teach the kids how to think and be adaptable? Is the coach prepared beforehand or do you have to wait for them to setup? Do they talk too much.
Then go to some matches and see how the coaches behave when the pressure is on. Do they abuse the kids if they make mistakes? Yell at the refs? Give game time to all the kids? Encourage them? Allow them to learn or try to control them like robots?


09 Nov 2017 20:48:24
Phil is correct. If the kids are having fun, improving then that is the place you want to sign up your child to.
It is very important for their cognitive part to be evolved, for them to be able to think for themselves because in the end, they are alone on the field and have to make decisions on their own.
Drills are fine, but they are only okey in certain situations, instilling fundamentals and incorporating tactics, but if ypu learned how to think in certain situations you will not need drilling as much.


09 Nov 2017 21:00:39
Cheers guys.


09 Nov 2017 12:09:54
Ed1 if you're about would be much appreciated, defender Dayot Upamecano of RB Leipzig, would love your opinion on him. I'm not going to claim I have seen him loads but times I have he looks a good prospect and sure a lot of clubs are watching him. Interesting thing I have noticed is he looks like he could, possibly in the future move into a defensive midfield role as he is very comfortable in possession and does like to break forward in a box to box midfield fashion.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - he does look excellent but I don't expect them to let him go anytime soon. Not sure about moving him forward as it is totally different being on the ball in the middle of things to receiving it with everything in front of you.}

09 Nov 2017 13:00:33
Yeah I agree he does look excellent as a defender, shame it does not look like they will let him go anytime soon but then again if I am right Naby Keita was seen in that same light, in terms of not looking like they would let him go. Value your opinion and midfield is indeed a different ball game all together to playing out from defense but either way looks strong, good in the tackle and very comfortable in possession and on the right path to having a good career, wherever he ends up.


09 Nov 2017 14:06:42
Perfect player if you wanna build a team.


09 Nov 2017 14:43:54
1985mickey1985 spot on in regards to Dayot Upamecano, him and Julian Wiegl in the summer. one can dream hey!


09 Nov 2017 13:12:56
I'm sure I've read his buy out clause is massive as well.


{Ed002's Note - Buy out clauses are of no relevance. The interested parties, which don't include Liverpool, have been told that there is a termination clause that would need to be met and those sides have all stepped back for now. None of this should be on the Liverpool page.}

10 Nov 2017 00:11:11
Good prospect but Gomez is our future at centre back and he needs an experienced head alongside him IMO.


09 Nov 2017 11:52:49
Morning Eds and reds,

Any news on Clyne's return? Also do you think Klopp will see him as first choice when he does return or do you think he sees Gomez and Trent above him in the pecking order?

Believable1 Unbelievable1

09 Nov 2017 14:07:35
I remember it was being hinted that Clyne won’t return to the club.


09 Nov 2017 16:27:14
Correct.


09 Nov 2017 17:56:39
its turning out to be a strange situation, I hope that he returns soon, and starts playing a bit of footy again .


10 Nov 2017 06:18:28
Can anyone say or hint as to why?

Is it because his injury is much more serious than originally reported, or has there been a major bust up with the management?

Come on, spill the beans!


09 Nov 2017 11:51:19
injuries aside Ed 001, how do you rate Agger?

Believable8 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - loved him mate. No wonder he had back problems carrying Skrtel for years.}

09 Nov 2017 13:01:37
much better than the CB's we have in the squad today then.


09 Nov 2017 13:24:46
shame those injuries robbed one hell of a career, so gifted.


09 Nov 2017 14:40:12
Haha carting Skrtel to true Ed001. He was really good shame about those injuries
Up the pool.


09 Nov 2017 15:02:22
Ed001, even I loved Aggerto bits. He was not perfect, maybe injuries were a reason. But when he was on the pitch, gave everything to the team (brilliant character of it too) . It was sad the way he left, great talent and a loyalist who showed what the club meant to him every time he played. Hope he has a great post-football career with his tattoo shop and restaurants.

Krishna.


09 Nov 2017 19:12:28
Still remeber the belter he scored in that pulsating CL semi final second leg vs Chelsea at Anfield in 2007. Great player and devoted LFC player who flipped off Barcelona just to stay with us. Skrtl owes him his LFC career too. Bang awful player.


10 Nov 2017 10:09:36
Any 1 would have a back problem after playing with martin for so many years.


09 Nov 2017 09:31:34
Ed’s with the discussions yesterday on players out of football charity activities, what’s your thoughts on Mata, s Common Goal Charity where a player gives 1% of earnings. Are there many players signing up?

Believable2 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - it is a brilliant idea though sadly not many have signed up. I am hoping more will over time. If I remember correctly it has not even hit double figures of players signed up. I find that bizarre as not one of them would notice the money going and the good publicity they receive would be worth far more than the 1% they gave up! Mata is one of the world's genuine nice guys, we could do with more like him around.}

09 Nov 2017 09:44:01
Fantastic effort by Mata.

I think premier league clubs and the PFA should now take up the cause.
Players should have to sign an opt-out of the charity as it probably hasn't even registered on their radar.


{Ed001's Note - now that is a brilliant idea. The opt out I mean.}

09 Nov 2017 09:57:54
I am sure Mrs. Rafa s still involved in charities with in the city!


{Ed001's Note - yes Montse is still heavily involved in lots of charities.}

09 Nov 2017 09:58:24
Definitely a touch of class by Mata, such a shame others are not following suit.
In my time I've dealt with wealthy people and the poorer class and from my experience the poorer people do a lot more for charity.


09 Nov 2017 10:16:05
Fantastic from Mata, what a gent.

negativeredwalter - that's very true that mate the poor are much more generous, I suppose that's how the rich end up rich, greed. I'm not rich nor poor but I'm always willing to help charities, I do every single month as long as it's no smack head on the street asking for a quid I'll help out.

Speaking of charities massive respect to Ed007 for raising up to now £670 for Hamilton Foodbank, I hope it can meet the £750 target by 11th Dec, should it not I will donate whatever is needed to reach the target, it's nice to be nice, such a great cause, especially for this time of the year with Christmas coming up, some of us don't realise how lucky we are.


09 Nov 2017 12:27:23
Saw a article saying that there are now 20 players signed up. Hopefully it will continue to grow.


09 Nov 2017 17:54:52
I recall a tv programme years back, a nurse asking PL players to give up a day's wage to help the NHS. Hardly anybody was interested. Think thiery henry was. Sad state of affairs that the NHS need to go cap in hand to elite sportsmen for funding.


09 Nov 2017 19:16:36
Mata has always been socially conscious and socially aware about the issues that plague society. True gent.


09 Nov 2017 08:31:41
Eds. I remember a while back you posted a link to Liverpool training material (drills, formations etc) . Would you mind sending it again. I cannot find it via the search engine.

My son is now of an age where is actually listens to advice and it would be great to go through it with him

Thanks.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed033's Note -


Liverpool Training Bible

09 Nov 2017 09:34:37
This is quality Eds thanks! I coach U11s so will use some of this stuff. Good shout g1dgo (sounds like a Star Wars droid)


09 Nov 2017 13:55:36
thank you so much Will keep me busy during the international break!


09 Nov 2017 23:06:47
The “where you should be when we are defending corners” was an interesting one, maybe the first team can read it. Lol.


09 Nov 2017 07:52:56
Good Morning Eds/ all - almost weekend, hope all has had a good week?

I've been thinking recently about how Firmino is underrated by so many people, am I the only one to think this?

Somebody I was speaking to the other day was rambling on about how he's average and wouldn't get into teams like City, Barcelona etc because he doesn't score enough. Can people not see what else he brings? he offers far more then just goals.

I have always rated the lad, he's special and definitely up there with Mane and Salah plus he's looking even better without Coutinho in the team!

Anyway that's my thought of the morning out there :) have a good day to all!

Believable17 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - I defo agree, especially when I talk to Ed025 and he does not see what the lad brings. Firmino is a quality player who is a big part of the team in so many ways. If the whole team was at his level we would be top of the league.}

09 Nov 2017 08:06:29
Yeah we definitely would be mate. He's a very intelligent player and needs to be more appreciated. Id be more gutted him leaving before Coutinho any day, people think the sun shines out of Coutinhos arse, Firmino is the better player in my eyes and is still improving.


09 Nov 2017 08:52:36
He does remind me of Suarez a lot in the aspect of chasing everything not giving up for any ball minus the goal scoring but he brings so much to the team, I do think with Mane back you'll see go through a green patch and score a lot of goals I'm sticking by my prediction at the start of the season that he will get 20 goals in the premier league and 30 in all competitions.


09 Nov 2017 09:09:06
Apart from being skilfull, his work rate is immense. For me he is one of our most important players, his link up play at times is excellent. The one area I think he needs to improve on is his shooting.

Anyone that doesn’t rate Bobby probably hasn’t watched him live at a match.


09 Nov 2017 09:26:58
Wow. That's some statement ed.

I'd go with if firmino was at salah level we would be top of the league.

He has good moments but he is not a top top player. Dirk kuyt was a great servant but not top tier and him and firmino are like two peas in a pod.


{Ed001's Note - he is nothing like Kuyt. I loved Dirk but he was not a top class player by any means, his workrate made up for it to a degree but was never enough. Firmino is a top class player with the workrate to match.

I think you are forgetting that we have 9 other players than Firmino and Salah in the team and they are the issue not Firmino. We need better midfield and defenders, not forwards. Firmino has already got 7 goals this season in 17 games. That is not far off 1 in 2. It is better than most out and out forwards manage. I really do not understand what you are watching if you think he is like Kuyt. That is one of the most blinkered, ridiculous and frankly ignorant statements I have ever read.}

09 Nov 2017 09:56:04
Am I reading this right? Are some supporters really blind to what firmino does for our team? He's scored 7 and been involved in a lot of our other goals with assists with his passing with dragging defenders out of position plus his work is non stop. We would miss him in the squad more than most of the team.


09 Nov 2017 09:56:41
Firmino = Kurt is almost as bad as people suggesting firmino should play in center-mid cos he runs a lot and presses. anyways, firmino is greater for us. Great touch, vision and is good enough of a finisher to get by. He obviously isn't a natural finisher, which is why it's stupid to judge him with that lense.


09 Nov 2017 10:02:21
For me he is a quality player not a world class player though.
If over the next few seasons he can add more goals we would be talking world class. At the moment a decent player doing well for the team.


{Ed001's Note - I would also say quality rather than world class, though I don't mind if he doesn't score more, if he is instead creating more to reach that top bracket.}

09 Nov 2017 10:06:17
Firmino is a brilliant player. Excellent first touch and fits in with the system like a glue! He is not at the level of Coutinho.


09 Nov 2017 10:09:59
At the end of the day it's a team game I'd love it if he got us 20 league goals a season and keep up the assist side of his game.


09 Nov 2017 10:44:50
Are you been serious TopBusiness? because that post makes no sense mate I don't know how you can be serious with such a post, comparing Firmino to Kuyt, really? see this is what I'm talking about. That is just nonsense mate.


09 Nov 2017 12:02:36
Without Firmino in the team the likes of Mane, Salah and coutinho wouldn’t score anywhere near the amount of goals as they do, he’s the player who makes it all click up front.
So you can forgive him for his apparent lack of goals as he is indirectly or directly responsible for the other forwards scoring so many.
Not world class but not far off, he might not make the starting line ups of some teams but any team in the world would be lucky to have him in the squad.


09 Nov 2017 12:34:36
Firmino's good enough that I don't mind him keeping Studge out of the team (from me that's high praise) . I'm not sure he'd get a game at City or Spurs however but he's be starter at Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal.


09 Nov 2017 13:00:17
As a striker Firmino is a good player as was kuyt.

Firmino work rate does make up for his lack of other skills like kuyts did.

Absolute nonsense to think he is anything close to quality. If he was playing like this for another top team you wouldn't be that hyped to be signing him. As you would be if it was sanchez, Jesus, kane etc

You let him off with a lot because with all respect ed1 loves him and he's our player. Take him outta Liverpool and he's just another run of the mil player. Nothing special, good but that's it.

As for his goals. He smashed it last year till about November then took 4 months off. He was out scored by literally nearly every other premier league striker. Josh king, llorente, Defoe. not even the top tier players. Yet he's some quality forward. Ok.

I will never accept him as our number nine and will never be convinced we can have as much success as we crave with him up top. That being said I believe, as a number 10 he could push de bryune.

I think him behind a real forward would allow him less pressure of scoring. more opportunities to press and pass. It would allow a striker to remain further forward as firmino would do all his running for him. When coutinho goes I think we already have his replacement in robbo and we should focus every ounce of our resources of the very best striker we can muster.

Mane firmino salah
MERTENS.


09 Nov 2017 15:38:44
I think people need to forget about numbers on backs. Kane, Jesus and Sanchez have different jobs to Firmino. Klopp's system is fluid, and Firmino does what he's asked perfectly. Perhaps he should be put back on penalties, that will get his goals tally up a bit and then everyone will be happy.


{Ed001's Note - I would give up if I was you, some people clearly know nothing about the game. If they are watching us play and can't see Firmino is quality then it is a waste of time discussing it with them. Any one who judges Firmino purely on his goal tally knows nothing about the game at all and would have done nothing but moan about Dalglish for not scoring enough, because they don't understand the game. They should stick to business.}

09 Nov 2017 17:25:37
Spot on stoneage/ ed001.


09 Nov 2017 19:32:36
TopBusiness, comparing Firmino to Kuyt is just criminal and if you actually think that then, I fear for you. Also, what a load of tosh about Firmino took 4 months off. Really? Were you asleep the whole time where he had to play out wide when Cou was injured and when Mane was at the AFCON which affected his game? You are saying he is not quality. My friend, you would not know quality if it stood in front of you if you think that.

Firmino is top notch, end of story. The things he was doing to WH defenders, was just breath-taking. A complete joy to watch. You think Klopp is stupid when he praises him after such games? He knows that there is NO Salah, Mane or Ox w/ o Firmino. NOT A CHANCE. I personally, don't care if he does not score as much cos he might as well have scored a hatful cos it is his quality, guile, intelligence, movement and unselfish workrate, that allows Mane and Salah with Ox and Cou, to score as much as they have done so their goals are might as well be his.

Who you will or will not accept as our no. 9 is irrelevant cos you see things so myopically that it's not even worth discussing things. Mertens? Great player BUT only started his good run last season. Needs to do more. And if you think Bobbie will be good in the no. 10 role then I suggest you just give up having this discussion cos clearly, you have no clue about what Firmino does for this team.


09 Nov 2017 22:20:03
Bobbys movement is really missed when he's not on. He really disgruntles centre backs and pulls them out of position. This really helps Mane and Salah are able to roam further forward.


09 Nov 2017 23:54:21
Lol everyone missed the point and started bringing what he does for us😂

the question was very very simple would he get on city Barcelona etc? Of corse NOT.


{Ed001's Note - Pep loves Firmino and that is the way he wants Aguero to play.}

10 Nov 2017 06:06:50
20 Premier league goals is a big ask from this stage! He has 3 in his first 11. To get to 20 he needs to score 17 in 27 games! I can only see him scoring 10-15 league goals but that doesn't matter to be honest. Salah is on track to score 25, Mane will get 15 at least if he stays fit, and Sturridge is on course for about 10 in the league. Add that Chambo, Lallana, Can and Gini will all get about 5 each, i have no concerns at all.

Goals aren't our problem. Firmino is doing a great job at making space for others and creating chances. We'll probably end up second top scorers to Manchester City. Maybe 3rd if Alli finds his shooting boots and Kane stays fit.

Anybody who can't see what Firmino does either doesn't watch us, or doesn't understand his role in our team. It is nothing more than a deflection away from the real issues that we have in the centre of our defence and of course, Mignolet. If those 3 position were sorted out, we'd be title contenders. Add a top holding midfielder in and I'd argue we could win the title. The problem is that those are 4 positions where there is a severe lack of quality in world football.

Nobody should be questioning our forward line. They score enough to win almost all of the games we play. Only City and United have stopped them scoring this season. You can't include Leicester in the Cup as Firmino, Mane and Salah didn't play. Mane was missing against United as well. And Mane and Salah basically missed the City game too. We keep our front 3 fit and nobody will stop us from scoring goals. Firmino is of equal importance to any of our attackers.

My only concern is that if Cavani leaves PSG after falling out with Neymar, Firmino would be perfect for them as a false 9. He'd create the space for Neymar and Mbappe to come inside and score a hat full. PSG have shown interest in the past as well. Just got to win trophies though and give Firmino an incentive to stay at Anfield!


08 Nov 2017 23:14:10
Hi Ed, Just a general question.
Ive been reading a lot about Naby and his behaviour on and off the pitch.
I didn't know much of him before this summer, is this just his behaviour normally or is it because he knows he's joining us next year? I mean, if its the latter than surely that isn't an impression you should leave on your potential employeers, or is the deal concrete so he can mess around?
Is Phillipe doing the same thing? Showing he's pissed at the fact he's still here?
It just sucks on both ends.
Gracias.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - it is similar in some ways, except that Keita, according to the people I have spoken to, is trying too hard to prove he still wants to win with RBL before he leaves. On the pitch at least. He is getting cards for just throwing himself in and being reckless, rather than to try and get away. Whereas Coutinho is just too busy moaning.

Off the pitch Keita is getting a bit big for his boots, but, to be perfectly honest, there are very few of these footballers that aren't. Even someone as unassuming and friendly as Carlton Palmer could be an absolute dick when he had a few bevvies. He would do things like smack a wad of 50s on the heads of random people and say "look at my wad peasant". Money does unpleasant things to people, if they are not careful.}

09 Nov 2017 06:31:11
Carlton Palmer haha probably not one for the legends list hey.


{Ed001's Note - I suppose it depends on your definition of legend. If your definition of legend is 'the player with the least amount of talent to play regular international football' then he might well be a legend.}

09 Nov 2017 08:09:05
ha class ed01, hope you're well mate? Got a couple more for the legends list if you don't mind. Hristo Stocichkov and John Barnes, sorry if they are already on the list. Can't seem to find it at the moment.


{Ed001's Note - I will have to put up the list again with all the new names, they are both on there though. And thank you mate, very well, should hopefully have the Pele one done this week, fingers crossed. How are things with you Toe?}

09 Nov 2017 12:23:57
He is prob on the list, but if he is not i would lke to see Dragan Stojkovic there. If he didn't have all he's injuries, im pretty sure he would be higher rated by most people. A real joy to watch him play.


{Ed001's Note - I think he is on the list but I will have to check when I get home as I can't access the list on my phone.}

09 Nov 2017 16:27:06
Hi

Yeah I mentioned him a couple of weeks ago.


09 Nov 2017 16:28:04
Markus Babble has to be on it ed a true legend of the game who was robbed too early through injury. Amazing pro and top footballer.


{Ed001's Note - agreed, I love Babbel he was a truly brilliant footballer as well.}

09 Nov 2017 17:21:37
We were robbed too early of him Ed. I was truly elated when we got him for free from Bayern and truly gutted when we lost him the way we did. We have lost quite a few excellent fullbacks over the prem era. Rob Jones, Fabio Aurelio both spring to mind.


{Ed001's Note - agreed mate, injuries do seem to have cost us dearly in recent years.}

09 Nov 2017 19:35:32
I think Babbel was the CB who did a decent man-marking job on Shearer at the Euros in 1996. Or was it Thomas Helmer?


09 Nov 2017 21:24:07
I am well cheers ed01, thanks again for the legends list absolute class effort that mate :)


{Ed001's Note - loving doing them, the research is great to do.}

 
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