Liverpool Banter Archive October 08 2014

08 Oct 2014 21:55:06
I don't know what r midfield needs a defensive midfielder r a creative midfielder does anybody else think like this and is this a bad sign r midfield is not cl quality yet.

09 Oct 2014 06:08:59
I don't know about that, But out past manager's are equally responsible for the mess our club is in from past so many years.
Their stuppid spendings on poor players.

Our midfield has been poor ever since Alonso and Mascehrano. We replaced two of the best midfielders in the world with either decent players like Lucas and Allen or deadwood like Poulsen and Spearing. I think LFC are the only heavyweight team in the UCL this season without a world class midfielder, and the results have shown the lack of quality.

09 Oct 2014 09:19:25
Indian

Atletico reached the finals without any world class midfielder.
You don't need to have world class players necessarily. What u need is a well functioning midfield unit which works for each other and am sure can hendo and Lallana will provide that

Reet, u do not think Koke is world class? i'm pretty sure he plays CM for Atletico. Gabi and Mario Suarez are not too shabby either and Tiago has been part of many title winning sides, so yes their midfield is quality.

09 Oct 2014 09:40:20
Reet

Dont spout Rubbish.
Kokke, Herrerra, Turan, Costa. Are WORLD BETTER CLASS. They aren't world class names sor sure.

Now your next Example would be Dortumand.

That Dortumand midfeild would walk over our 200 mill worth Squad.

09 Oct 2014 09:54:02
Reet

Athletico and Dortumand doesn't have world class names. But they do have world class players.

Koke, Herrera, Costa, Turan, VIlla are excellent players who took their club to CL Finals

Dortumand a couple of seasons ago had the best players in the wolrd.
Gotze, Reus, Lewandoski, Gundagaon, Subbotic, Hummels.

But Ofcourse, You always don't need to spend stupid money, But you defo needs world class players to reach CL finals.

I believe rossiter could be a long term fixture in our team . Handy little player with very good distribution and excellent football intelligence for someone so young . Maybe a loan next year to the championship would do him some good

09 Oct 2014 11:28:13
And I ask you, who made these world class players harry? Was it not the team and manager they played for? Surely they are great but playing under a good manager with a good setup helped them shine,maybe give lallana markovic and can the same chance, who knows they could surprise you,if not you always get another chance to complain

09 Oct 2014 12:17:19
Cyprus

Fair enough. And May I ask you how much did they paid for all these players?

Gotze. Reus. Lewandoski. Costa. Koke. Herrera.

All these combined fees would be less than what we paid for Lallana or Markovic alone.

My point remains same, If you wanna spend high. No worries. But get it right. else don't sepnd it.

09 Oct 2014 12:36:52
Indian and Harry
just in case you thought I backed out .
I did send in a reply. It wasn't posted

09 Oct 2014 12:52:39
harry,

for a start, hererra came from bilbao and not madrid. secondly, the argument was about midfield so costa and villa don't even come into the equasion. i'm in agreement with Reet, the athletico midfield is far from star studded but people who do their job extremely well.

It's worth noting the same management that got lewandowski cheap and brought through goetze, let both players go for almost nothing.

Koke is good, I don't see him as much of an improvement on our squad if we bought him though

I don't get why you mentioned villa and herrerra when talking about AM today, they aren't at the club boom

overrall I'm rather happy with the balance in the midfield.can, lallana, henderson, gerrad, allen, coutinho and leiva are good enough for the champs league

09 Oct 2014 13:44:55
Bob

Gotze went after the release clause were triggerd which was pretty high, Lewondaski departure was a Gesture. Reus would go for an amount and they bought Mikhthiriyan

Yup, i messed up there. Dunno where I got that idea from on goetze, for some reason I thought he went on a free with his contract running out.

Going back to the original point, a proper defensive midfielder is the answer.

LFC's midfield will not have a proper balance unless the club buys a world class CDM. We have not had one since Masch, Gerrard and Lucas simply do not cut it for me. Someone like Medel could have made a world of difference, just hope the management sees the need for one.

Which Herrera is this people keep mentioning?

09 Oct 2014 17:37:31
Fencey
Ander Herrera. Somebody got em mixed up and is failing to admit that

10 Oct 2014 09:33:37
i would like to reply to indian buzzer,i agree with you that we need a midfielder,but why would you say that spearing was deadwood?spearing was a youth player and just did not make it,spearing never complained and left to play his football somewhere else.
Spearing gave everything when i saw him play for us
Malta

Our midfield is strong when Rodgers sets it up right. Also can i just add that if you still don't think Henderson is world class you're absolutely mad. The only player who is better than Henderson in his role is Arturo Vidal and he is injury prone. When was the last time Hendo missed a game through injury.

We also have some great players (Lallana, Allen, Sterling), some players with great potential (Can, Coutinho, Teixeira, Markovic, Rossiter), and some decent players (Gerrard, Lucas).

This does however highlight our burning need for a top holding midfielder. We have two decent holding midfielders (Lucas-Destroyer, Gerrard-Anchor), and a couple with potential (Can and Rossiter), but no world class or at least a top midfield destroyer/anchor. It'd be nice to get Khedeira in January for this position.

Back to the point though, Hendo is a world class midfielder and I'm sorry but that is virtually undisputable. I would literally only consider swapping him for Vidal. Even then I'm not sure because of the injury issues/age. Name me a better box to box midfielder who is only 25 years old?

10 Oct 2014 12:57:52
EMS
At the moment I'd pick Ramsey over hendo purely down to the fact that he contributes more through goals

Ramsey is NOT in Hendo`s class and he has only had one good season in his 6yrs at Arsenal. Aresnal`s system makes players look good to the point that it made even Adebayor look world class so no credibility there. Hendo is a very good player and most importantly, works on the areas of his game that needs fine-tuning hence, he improves with almost every game he plays. Wit that attitude, he will be world class BUT I don`t think he`s there yet. As for Vidal being the only one better than him. I can name a few who are better than him namely Modric, Kroos, Marchisio, Vidal, Pogba just to name a few BUT he will get there, trust me.

{Ed001's Note - Ramsey was a fantastic talent before his injury, and was playing well then. It was only after a long injury he dropped off and people forget how good he was prior to then. Ramsey was seen as one of the brightest talents in world football before it, for good reason. He is better than you have given him credit for and has had more than one good season.}

Respect, ED. He might b better than I think BUT I`m very wary of giving Arsenal players too much credit because when they leave, they get found out to be not as good. (Adebayor, Fabregas at Barca, Song, and the list goes on.). He is a good player for sure BUT I don`t think he`s better than Hendo. In fact, I think Hendo will be the better all-round player in a couple of yrs BUT time will tell.

{Ed001's Note - Hendo is better right now, I agree, but that is more because of how good he is, rather than because Ramsey is not that good.}

08 Oct 2014 18:33:50
Cabaye isn't happy at psg
Not a rumour but sell lucas and buy Cabaye in a perfect world

Exactly what i was thinking. probably getting used to some seriously good psg wages so may be out of our reach now. can see utd being more likely unfortunately if he does go

Nearly posted this earlier! Perfect replacement for Gerrard

08 Oct 2014 19:38:14
Nearly.

Cabaye is nearly 29. Replacement for a 34 year old?

08 Oct 2014 20:19:04
Harry talking sense.

He's actually 28

Yes harry he's 5 years younger & a big improvement on current gerrard

Harry talking bull ! ! ! He would be a grate player and also I said sell lucas so please explain how that is not a improvement

Congrats to the guy that corrected Harry on cabayes age from nearly 29 to "actually 28!!!" It made my very slow and boring night. Hats off to you sir.

I try my best NYD

09 Oct 2014 06:12:21
Dezy

I think we lack a player in Matic mould, A DM which would give Lallana, Hendo, Allen and our fullbacks to contribute in attack.
Isn't Cabaye a CM?

Just asking mate.

Selling a DM and buying another CM?

09 Oct 2014 06:24:57
Dezy

There was a player available at 5 mill, Now at Bayern. played 5. MOTM in 2, Broke 3 Bundesleague Records already.
1. Most successful tackles
2. Most distance coverd
3. Most successful passes.

Both Liverpool and Real are missing him.

Shedding another 15 mill for a CM is not the answer IMO.

{Ed001's Note - it has to be said, no matter what the cost, Xabi would have been worth it!}

09 Oct 2014 06:50:53
Ed01, Xabi would have saved the club in listening to BR and fans and buying another Xmill worth midfielders.

{Ed001's Note - I don't care about that, all I care about is that he is the best in the world in his position on the football pitch. He has at least 2 years left in him at that level and his experience would have been vital to our youngsters. Could you imagine what Rossiter could have learnt from seeing him in training??}

09 Oct 2014 07:32:33
Ed01. Bang on. Not 2. He would give us 4 brilliant years. Imagine Hendo and lallana either side of him bossing the midfield. The younger ones's exspecially in the midfield position would learn a world of good from Alonso.

And the most important irony. Cabaye would be near 100k wages. Alonso would actually take a pay cut to join us.

Heard we are after Titoe from Newcastle. God save us.

Yeah i'm in total agreement here, Xabi could have been bought and been a massive step up on anything we have in our midfield, the shortsightedness is outstanding

Just to echo those thoughts boys Alonso should have been a priority. Vastly experienced and he is one of the best in his position.

Alonso would have made us title challengers. His experience would have been brilliant for youngsters like Can and Rossiter to learn from. But the Transfer Committee and BR (not sure whether FSG are pulling some strings from behind the scenes) seem intent on only signing players with good re sale value, or older players who are on next to nothing.

Ed I full agree I love Xabi ! ! ! Cabaye would be just a man to fill the big gap haha

I don`t know who`s faut it was BUT Alonso should Never have been sold in the first place. I would still take him back BUT really, that`s the past now and who says he would have come to us? He might have thought it`s NEVER good to go back to where you were successful. Who knows? However me might feel, we need to ove on and support thise who are here.

08 Oct 2014 17:09:18
Like some regular posters on this site, I am no footballing expert. And maybe my question will expose my inferior knowledge but why did Mr Rogers change a winning footballing system to the mundane & monotonous mire we are playing now? Surely Luis Suarez' departure can't have changed the tactics this dramatically? And why can't we go back to last years system it can't make us any worse can it? I suppose what I am saying is why fix something when it isn't broke? Would love to get your feedback ED's 001, EMS, esteemed posters etc

{Ed001's Note - I have no idea.}

How can we go from playing like Brazil circa 1970 World Cup to Roy friggin Hodgson in the space of 7 games? Has anybody asked Brendan that question?

I'm going to have a go at answering.

We've been without the 2 pretty key players in last years attacking formation since Suarez left and Studge got injured. The fill in's aren't quick and nimble players that drop then run past their man, and run diagnols, but are power forwards, that drop deep, hold the ball and lay it off to the fullback and mids running forward.

No one really knows outside of speculation, so my completely uninformed opinion would be BR doesn't feel we can outscore the competition to a victory without a top 2 of Sturridge and Balotelli. The Spurs game is the only one where we've had both and the only we've really played a more similar style to last year. For whatever reason, for me, he doesn't feel we can do the same otherwise so we play more conservative, possession-based play instead. Complete swag though, I really have no idea either.

Without Suarez it makes a big difference to us up front. The constant menacing of defenders, pulling them all over the place, creating space for others. Not to mention theskill, the trickery! Very hard to replace, changes the whole dynamics of the team in my opinion.

08 Oct 2014 21:13:53
There is some hard to please people, we lose one of the best players in the world, the best forward in G.B. is injured. What team would not struggle and bedding in New players. What if Breadan didn't buy anyone, he would have been slaughtered. Give the guy a chance, last season was like amazing great attacking football, and if Jamie C haven't retired a title.

I appreciate what your saying Rover but your telling me that there's not an offensive player in world football that doesn't press like Suarez that didn't want to come to us? Someone in the mould of Kuyt. I appreciate Luis is once in a generation type player but i'm not having there's no players out there I just think it boils down to shoddy homework by Brendan and the committee. They took the plaudit's last season and they have to take the criticism this. And while where on the subject can someone tell me who this secret committee comprises of??

BR tried to play two up top after sturridge got injured. Borini and Bellotelli, it didn't work without a quality player with great movement witch i think bellotelli needs beside him. If studge and muz both start expect the diamond and us being explosive again. PS we will nedd either Allen or Can back also for that extra spark in midfield, its either lieva or gerrard in DF both lying deep isn't good.

08 Oct 2014 12:12:54
Would just like to thank the eds they've been especially chatty the last couple of days and it makes the site much more enjoyable well done!:)

{Ed001's Note - thank you mate, it is just down to time.}

08 Oct 2014 09:42:57
Poll of the day on Downing:

1st season - let's be honest, it wasn't great. Dalglish saw Downings ability to cross and Carrolls height. Trouble is, Carroll is useless from open play because he is too slpw to get into the box to meet the cross! So poor Downing had bugger all to aim at. I do think Dalglish made Downing look bad. That is no excuse for zero goals and assists though. He was well off the pace.

2nd season - Downing was excellent. I know plenty will dispute that, but 5 goals and 8 assists in a pretty average team, with limited game time and even a short spell spent at left back os a very good return. Rodgers really got the best out of him and he should not have been sold for bloody Moses! Like it or not, in his last season, Downing was unspectacular but effective. He was also a hard worker which often went unnoticed. Rodgers made a mistake there. He is proving it this year at West Ham now he is settled in and has some proper forwards to aim at rather than big Andy and Carlton Cole!

I wish him luck.

08 Oct 2014 09:57:27
I agree, he could easily be doing a job in midfield or on the wings for us now, probably not a starter but would have been a very useful option to have

Hey there East!

I actually agree with you, in BR's second season Downing at last started to click. However, I do believe that selling him had nothing to do with footballing reasons, but rather with financial ones - mainly, this was the last year where we could get some money for him, and reduce the looming loss that would go into the accounts. BR probably didn't have a say in that - though he has proven that he is not much of a Downing fan. I wish all the best to Stu, but right now he is playing in a team and philosophy much more suited to his style. He would not fit into the fast, tricky and penetrating Liverpool we saw last year, he is simply a different type of player; considering that, his performance in his last year with us is quite pleasing, as he was trying to adapt to the new style.

EMS
Downing was also played on the right rather than the left where I imagined he would be wipping balls in to Carroll
On the right he also cut back inside all the time rather than going past his man an putting in a good cross.
He has a great left foot so I found it strange he was predominantly played on the right.
He never really achieved what he could have done with us.

King Kenny, was an person with regards to this. He very rarely started them together (when carroll was fit) He often used downing as a sub, or put suarez up front by himself when downing was on.

BR was moronic playing him left back, he did his best, but every time the winger abused his lack of defensive awareness.

He was one of our better players when he left and had improved massively and grown into the squad. we shouldn't have sold him, espcially since we never really had a wide left player last year and often put coutinho there and victor F*%£ing moses.

The bar must not be very high for you guys when it comes to performances regarding Downing. He was aweful, lazy and showed a complete lack of passion and determination. He did improve BUT only after BR threatened to sell him. Unlike Hendo who grew a pair and is now co-captain, Downing just went thru the motions and he only "improved" because the bar was no longer high for him anymore in terms of expectations and knew he would be gone in the close season. For the money paid for him, he was aweful and WHU is and always will be his level.

Redohio, you need to detach Downing the player from the ridiculous transfer fee we paid to land him. That was not his fault and he should not be judged against that when we are talking purely about his ability. I also think you've been extremely harsh on his work rate. If anything, he was trying too hard to impress. 5 goals and 8 assists for a wide player is actually very good btw. To put it into context, I remember reading that in the same season he achieved that, it was a better return than Nani, Giggs, Valencia, Welbeck and Young combined.

I agree he was not worth £20m, and I agree he is also not quite at the level required to start every week for a top 4 club. He is easily good enough to be a top 4 squad player though or a key player for a mid table side.

I think you've let emotions cloud your judgement mate. The question is, 'Was Downig just not good enough DURING his time at Liverpool?' His first season, well undisputably he was not. His second season though, he was one of the most effective midfielders in the league but he just idn't have the flair that makes people a fan/media favourite. Considering we were a 7th placed team, I'd say he was easily good enough for us that season. We may have out grown him now, but I think he would've been a very handy player to have last season. Especially considering how well suited he is to fast paced, direct, counter attacking football. It was playing in that sort of style at Middlesborough under McClaren and at Villa under O'Neil that put Downing into the spotlight.

He is far from a bad player and we needed somebody like him for depth last season (don't tell me you'd honestly rather have Moses, Aspas or Alberto). Okay, we would have little use for him now, but he was sold one season too early in my opinion and I would certainly not say he just wasn't good enough. Kenny made 3 bad signings; Carroll, Adam and Enrique. None of them were up to the required standard or fitness. Downing, Bellamy, Ibe, Henderson and Suarez were all pretty decent signings in the end. It may have taken Downing and Hendo a year to settle, but is that really uncommon? Compare that to Rodgers hit rate and it's actually bloody good!

Would I re-sign Downing? No. He is a bit old now and I think we could do better. Do i think Downing could've been the difference last season between winning and losing the title? Yes actually, I do. You need attacking depth and last season we had none of that.

08 Oct 2014 13:34:43
Downing started very very well but went backwards fast much like enrique imo. Does anyone think Joe Cole could have been a great signing if it wasnt for his injurys & then getting sent off on debut? From there is was destined to fail but if it hadn't of happened he could have been good

Downing had a good 2nd season with 5 goals and 8 assists like Adam says. I think he would have been a useful squad player, keeping in mind we replaced Downing with Moses, and then Moses with Markovic.

redohio: If that is your view on Downing, what is your opinion on Markovic?

Yep, definately would have prefered him over Moses (even Aspas - maybe even Borini).

08 Oct 2014 17:11:30
After 2 poor seasons and struggling to get 1/4 th if the original fee. Some here think we did injustice with downing? ?

Downing is just the type of player that can't handle big clubs. Look at it like the Roy Hodgson of players.

EMS, I normally like readiing your posts But for now IMO, Downing was not good enough during his time here. NOTHING is clouding my judgement because I`ve known him since his debut at Boro. I saw almost every gae he played for lfc and frankly, only startedplaying well from Dec, 2012. Simply, He just did not have the cojones to play for a big club and so did Hendo in his 1st season. Diff is Hendo grew a pair and is now flourishing thru hard graft and determination. Sterling is another example of a player who grew up quicker because he had the work ethic and determination and awareness to stop his off-field antics and fous on football. At a big club, u either grow a pair an prove your worth or get shipped out. Period!
As for AG, I will not compare Downing who`s been playing in the EPL for near a decade w/ a young raw talent who`s only been here for two months because that`s just being unfair and disingenuous. At least give the boy the same period of time we gave Downing and hen make your decsion. on him. I think that`s fair.

Simply Downing is a good player. Far better than what we tried to replace him with and is a squad player. Not consistent but can do a job. Not a starter but good to have around.

As for Markovic AG I think we need to give him time to judge him. He seems to improve every time he plays which is a good sign but he's young and needs time to settle.

09 Oct 2014 09:42:40
If people rate Downing, Then James Milner would be a world beater ( TBH, He is a fine player )

08 Oct 2014 08:45:02
Ok i'm going on my high horse about player contracts. Sterling signed a new contact last year and now he looks like he's going to get another one based on his performances. Player power and all that but enough is enough.
I really do suggest that FIFA/Clubs take a strong stand on contracts or scrap them and go to a draft system.
I'd have whacked a £100m buyout clause on sterling and said that once he'd signed his contract there'll be no further negotiaions till there are 18-24 months left on the contract. If another club want you and want to give you 100k a week then there is a buyout clause for them to do so. Or you the player can buy out the remainder of your contract.
You were happy with 35k last year and you signed it for 5 years so its tough!
A couple of good games and clubs are being held to ransom.
I'm sick of it now like. I appreciate this isn't a well articulated arguement but its early!

08 Oct 2014 09:20:47
Alex, don't worry about the articulation, that's not a bad word for so early in the morning!!

I completely agree. Since Bosman, the pendulum has swung almost completely in favour of the players. Its got to a point where it really depends on the attitude of the player whether a club can hang on to them at all - prime example being Suarez a year ago when he wanted to leave. A player with a different temperament probably would've got a move as he would've sulked or not performed (a la Tevez), but we were fortunate that Suarez loves football more than almost anything else, so was able to perform to an incredible level despite not getting the move he wanted.

However, players with that attitude are all too rare in this day and age.

Whether we call it a buyout clause or a minimum compensation clause or whatever, a club should be able to make a player honour their contract without being held to ransom. If a club then chooses to reward a player with an improved contract earlier than is necessary, that should be the clubs prerogative.

08 Oct 2014 09:28:12
What a 19 year old will do with 100 k a week is beyond me

{Ed001's Note - I have a few ideas for how I could look after his money for him......}

My rather radical view for football is that a wage cap should be introduced, even though it goes against the basic principles of the free market. The game is simply becoming a slave to money and commerce. A wage cap (including on all the bonuces, fees and etc) would reduce the bargaining power of rich clubs. Sometimes I also support the idea of one year contracts, because the money wasted on transfers is far too much - however, this will make small clubs far too vulnerable to the big clubs I guess. Still, football has deviated far too much from its roots.

08 Oct 2014 10:36:40
The problem is, that as we stand now almost all clubs have massive financial investments in players that would be lost overnight if all contracts were honoured.
Values of clubs would drop dramatically and so would the shares, as clubs would be losing millions of pounds in assets.
The ideas great, but I fear we are further away than ever from seeing contracts honoured.

08 Oct 2014 11:14:55
Dave, my thought was not that all contracts would be honoured, but that the clubs would benefit from protection from those contracts. Therefore, if they chose to sell a player during his contract, and the player agrees, then they can do so. However, players demanding massive pay rises (or rather their agents!) in the early stages of a long term contract should be curbed.

A generous donation to the "The real AG appreciation society"?

08 Oct 2014 17:13:29
Ree

The 19 year old has a child and 2 woman in his life. He could a lot with 100k.

I think that there should be a system whereby contracts are negotiated in only one month in the year. So something like a June contract window. This will mean that season performances will be awarded, not just 5 games. Now this won't help the inflation in wages, but it will prevent players unable to get into the first team a way out without costing the club or their careers.

08 Oct 2014 06:47:19
We should not sign valdes and try for Chec in January ! ! !

Please God spend the money and get Cech, for those wondering where the money is going to come from then sell Borini, take a drop in value if we have to as we are screwed if we don't get a great keeper on board soon.
He will be fantastic between the sticks, will organise and lash the defence and would be a wonderful role model for not only the keepers at the club but all the younger players, the guy has won so much and is a fantastic buy.

08 Oct 2014 00:33:58
Hello to all the EDS and fellow REDS

Badly needed win before the break. With the injured coming back we will regain the intensity of last year and shoot up the table. Never mind the doom and gloom merchants. One thing though, I thought with Glen at right back we had more balance and looked (surprisingly) safer. Manquillo has tonnes of potential but final ball is still a work in progress. Glen's assured defending (when he defends) and movement up front was missed these last games. I know he has his detractors (for want of a better word) but IMO he could be the best right back in PL, if he pulled his finger out.
Good days are just round the corner. AS LONG AS WE DON'T SUFFER ANYMORE INJURIES. I hope I don't jinx us now.
P.S. ManU 4th, they actually believe they're back! lol!!

08 Oct 2014 05:08:00
Don't think anyone doubted GJs ability, have always thought he has the potential to be an amazing RB, but it has been his complete lack of application, desire, and focus over the past 18 months or so that I can't stand! Seeing him at anfield the few times I was lucky enough to go gave me a chance to see the whole pitch and how terribly exposed he left our defence and how little effort he made to get back. Have to be cynical but isn't coincidental he is putting effort in when he needs a new contract!

08 Oct 2014 07:27:27
How any1 can take the Michael out of United, while claiming Johnson could be the best left back in the league is beyond me

08 Oct 2014 07:53:52
Ctr

time for an eye checkup mate

08 Oct 2014 09:43:13
Right back even lol thanks for pointing out my mistake dags2 😜