Liverpool Banter Archive February 08 2015

08 Feb 2015 22:03:32
Kolo Toure just laid a personal ghost, scoring in Ivory Coast win in African Cup of Nations. Nice one Kolo - well done to you and your team.

It was a great pen, too.

08 Feb 2015 20:41:16
Next 3 games are big ones don't think we can afford to lose any of them unless we beat both spurs an saints then looseing to city wudnt be the ned of the world but i think city are there for the taking with there form at the min. but if we can pick up at least 5 to 6 points from these games we will be in a good postion to kick on an get into the champs league spaces.

I have to say, if we go in to those games with either Gerrard or Allen at centre midfield then we are done for.

Lucas has been crucial and if he's missing then the protection that the defence and keeper had is gone.

If rodgers has any sense he'll put Can and Henderson as the centre midfield partnership, but since he hasn't we can look forward to seeing either more painful reminders of Gerrard's decline or the woeful inadequacy of Joe Allen.

Everton are shocking and we couldn't beat them, so do you really fancy us against teams playing well?

Spot on, Dennis! If we don`t win those games, it will solely depend on what decisions BR makes than anything else.

08 Feb 2015 21:35:43
Who do u then put into can,s centre back role

I'd give Lovren a go. FFS the guy cost £20m to sit on the bench?

I would also go Lovren and push Can upfield, but it's a clear gap for me, we clearly either need another CDM to cover for Lucas or another RCB to cover so Can can play midfield. We currently risk having to play Allen who lacks the physicality to play DM in my view. Any idea when Kolo is available for selection again? A bit slow but dependable option that could release Can further forward.

09 Feb 2015 08:09:38
Toure will be back by the weekend

That's optimistic. You won't find Kolo for at least 3 weeks.
He'll be on the ale for days now.

08 Feb 2015 17:09:33
Everyone saying how good ibe was at rwb, and I agree, but markovic has been excellent there too! Hope to see them both play on the same side soon, probably ibe being the further forward player, opposite coutinho or sterling!

Markovic looked done against Bolton. He didn't get involved at all. I think he has possibly had a bit too much football lately.

Marko looked tired vs Bolton and has been playing too many consecutive games. He looked leggy and gassed and needs some rest. Ibe came on and had a solid perf, IMO.

09 Feb 2015 08:10:33
Having two players for one position is a good thing

08 Feb 2015 14:19:03
We top the form table for 2015, only team undefeated in 2015 aswell, so praise has to be given to everyone at this time. Hopefully this form continues too!

Second in the table is Spurs and our rivals in the fight for fourth. Massive game Tuesday #comeonyouredmen

08 Feb 2015 15:17:59
Spurs and Southampton next two games are absolute must wins

08 Feb 2015 16:09:31
Winning every home game is key, I think we have 7 left. 2 wins and 4 draws on the road and that would take us to 70 points. Usually enough to get top 4

08 Feb 2015 16:39:33
What worries me is the Thursday night Sunday sequence of games so far BR hasn't convinced me he can cope with this. Two things to note about our current run not played the top teams in the league and no European commitments

That is my prob as well with BR. His rotational ability is suspect as we saw yesterday (playing SG for sentimantal reasons, IMO). I think we should play the kids or a mixed team on Thursdays so we can get everyone ready to play on Sundays because the next 2 games have to be won and if we do, we are right in the mix for 3rd/4th for sure. Then again, will BR play the high press or the borring possession game. Time will tell.

08 Feb 2015 12:43:02
What do people think are the chances of making 4th place?
Personally I think we've blown it. The gap doesn't look that wide, but there are just too many teams above us who have drop points, and they won't all do that.
The shame of it is that we will probably only miss out by a couple of points, and if we'd gotten our act together and started a decent run maybe a week or two earlier than we did, we might have made it.

08 Feb 2015 13:21:55
We've found a system now where we don't concede goals, if sturridge can stay fit untill the end then I'm confident we'll get there.
But it's all down to the big games and how Rodgers approaches those games, if we play our fast pressing game we can win.
We've already made up a lot of points on our recent run we were 10 points behind utd when they beat us now there 4 points ahead.
Beating spurs is a must.

08 Feb 2015 13:49:07
I think we'll do it on the basis that there are only two consistently good teams in the league this year: City and Chelsea.

I think yesterday strengthened the thought of why we won't make top 4.
We played Gerrard for sentimentality rather than his ability.When the injury happened to Lucas, we put Allen in his position which he was ill equipped for instead of putting Lovren in the back 3 and pushing Can up.
I don't think we ever really went for the win against an abysmal Everton, and in the managers infinite wisdom we took of both of our best players this season, 1 of which was having a good game.(possibly through injury not sure)

As I maintain our good run of form came against woeful opposition. We play like that against the remaining top 10 clubs, we can just wave goodbye to top 4 now.

Coutino was injured and sterling was having a quiet game. Lucas was injured. I fail to see how br is to blame here. He had to replace the above three players. Lovren is a liability at the moment so Allen was the better option. We had 17 attempts on goal to there 1. Why do people believe that every time we play we will be unstoppable? Look at city star studded and can't buy a win at the moment. we re playing really well and getting points on the board.

{Ed001's Note - didn't they have 2 attempts? Naismith had a weak header when he was groggy that was an attempt, though awful. As for Lovren being a liability, I fail to see how you can say that when he hasn't been playing for a while. To use 'at the moment' is just nonsense. The last time he played, he was not so bad at all.}

08 Feb 2015 15:20:46
Phil was taken off as an injury precaution. He was booted to death in the first half with very little protection from the ref and he might have picked up a knee injury

In the last time Lovren play we 4 at the back and Gerrard DM? This new set up is completely different. Lucas holding and with another centre back who is comfortable in Sakho. I think actually Allen was a much worse choice. He offers very little protection.

I would agree that i would be tempted to play Lovern in the back 3 against Spurs, not ideal being lwft footed but if Lucas is injured then Can's enery in the midfield would be a real bonus. I think Cout did take a knock yesterday hence the early sub in the second half after 10 minutes. I juat think he was given the chance to run it off. I would rather tho he was subbed than maybe loose him for the Spurs game totally and maybe more. I can't for the life of me believe the stick BR got for making such a decision. Again it nearly feels like some fans are nearly hoping for the team to slip up so the can willingly have a pop which is pretty sad.

There is a chance, but I think it unlikely. Fixtures are coming quickly and BR isn't the best at rotating a squad so I suspect we'll be in for more Everton-like performances than not.

With respect the substitution of Allen, for me it makes little sense to play a £10M 20 year old CDM as a CB while a much more experienced £20M CB sits on the bench and instead a relatively small CM plays CDM. Can has done a fine job at CB, but if Lucas is out he really should be playing in midfield.

08 Feb 2015 16:33:55
I have to diasgree there Ed001. I think if we're being honest, if he had put Lovren on and we'd conceded and lost then we'd have seen all sorts of abuse on here criticising the changing of a back 3 which has served us so well.

In an ideal world Can would be in the midfield and Lovren (the player we saw last year at Southampton) would be a regular starter, putting in performances like last year and leading our defence - unfortunately for one reason or another Lovren isn't performing and I would have thought it very foolish to bring on Lovren at RCB with Ibe a guy who is playing out of position at RWB - I'm sure you will agree playing two new players on the same side as each other like that would be stupid.

I personally would have kept the back 3 the same and dropped Gerrard back into the middle and bought on an attacking player.

{Ed001's Note - I am sorry but he is meant to make the right decisions for the team, not to avoid abuse. I wouldn't have criticised him for bringing on Lovren, it was the only sensible option. Not sure how it would be foolish to put him in there against a team making no attempt to attack? Seems foolish to suggest that it would be a problem to me.}

08 Feb 2015 16:47:51
Really Ed? To play a guy who has barely played at all (Lovren) at RCB next to a young lad on his debut playing out of positon at RWB doesn't seem foolish?

Our right side would be succeptable. I really don't think you can argue that mate.

{Ed001's Note - can you not read? They never tried to attack, we could have played me nan at centre back yesterday, on her zimmer, and not had an issue. What we needed was a stronger midfield, which Can would have provided.}

08 Feb 2015 20:19:09
Your Nan on her zimmer probably would have scored more as well!

Have to agree w/ Ed01 there. We saw the havoc Can could wreak vs Bolton when he was pushed up field. We did not go for the jugular as we should have because Everton fielded THREE DM`s (Besic, McCarthy and Barry) which is an indication of, "we are NOT going to attack you" so it was not surprising that we dominated the game. We should have gone for it more and we didn`t. That`s BR`s responsibility and he did not take it. He must have had a brain fart because BR is a coach that has always played to win and we have won many games because we went for them. He must have second-guessed himself, IMO.

09 Feb 2015 02:53:10
if skrtel ever gets a rest i think lovren would be suited to the middle centre back role but he looks a little dodgy in wide areas so the positions that sakho and can have been playing might be difficult for him. in saying that he could have come on against everton as like others have already said they showed little to no desire to get forward and try and win the game

I think we were just knackered to be honest.
I do not understand why Lovren and Balotelli are being given the naughty school boy treatment.
They could be valuable members of the squad between now and the end of the season.
If you are willing to give Ibe a go then why not give Lovren and Balotelli another go as well.
We looked out on our feet and we did not utilize the squad we have.
That is poor management for me.
Even though Balotelli has been pants he is better than Lambert at pressing in my opinion.
Lovren may be more comfortable playing in a three than a two which he was before we switched formation.
As for not giving Gerrard the opportunity to play against Everton one last time.
That was the least he deserved in my opinion.

09 Feb 2015 18:00:42
Eds subbing Lucas for Allen is obviously debatable. I agree that can offers more however it was at the start of the game ish and lovren despite being a good player is yet to get anywhere near the standard. My point is that a derby match isn't the place to slot him in. It wasn't the substitution howler some are making it out to be.

08 Feb 2015 12:29:38
Eds, any idea why many professional footballers struggle to beat the first man when taking a corner?

We send our CBs up plus have other 6ft outfield players waiting on a delivery and I've seen both Gerrard and Coutinho having their ball in headed away at the near post or we start to play it short.

I'm no pro, so I'm not paid to train and practice, but during school, county, juniors, Sunday or Saturday leagues I've never not been able to swing a ball into the middle of the box, past the first defender. I can't get why any international player, with years of professional playing time sends a corner in waist or shin hight to the first defender?

{Ed002's Note - That is an easy one, if you look at all of the best corner takers (Ronaldinho, Koke, Riquelme, Nilis, Recoba, Cubillas, Zola etc.) they all have one thing in common - webbed toes. That is why you and all of the Liverpool players are so poor at taking corners.}

It's probably that they are trying too hard to get pace and dip on the ball and with the modern ball it's difficult to judge the amount and timing of swerve and dip.

{Ed002's Note - Nope, it's the toes.}

I think most teams score less from set pieces nowadays and we concede less from them as well. Teams learned how to defend them better. Still quite shcoking how littel we create from them. More generally we don't score from crosses or anything coming from the wings. It is almost only coming from the centre and it is very crowded there.

08 Feb 2015 17:11:04
Sorry if it seemed a stupid question, wasn't soley LFC related. Even watching Newcastle Stoke today and WBA Burnley, the amount of corners taken by professional players, international level that seem to go in low at shin height and just hoofed away by the first man was loads. Teams bring up 6ft plus players intent on heading the ball at goal and the corner goes nowhere.
Just thought maybe at this level it's so basic they don't coach or train taking corners or is it the ball being too lightweight etc?

If webbed toes is genuine fair enough and thanks

{Ed002's Note - Newcastle haven't had a player with webbed toes since Ginola, so that accounts for their problem.}

Its down to the pace they have to try get on the ball I think any how

To me, it is down to work ethic and technique and maybe webbed feet (lol). Seriously tho, set-pieces is a learnt-skill and not a talent hence, players of today are a bit lazy and don`t work as hard on their game as they should be, IMO hence, they are poor at the most basic of things.

Search for the pat nevin video on the BBC website he addresses part of this.
run ups are shorter, the surface changes, the keeper is a lot more protected by ref so crosses have to go further out usually, which means generating whip and dip is harder.
Also Coutinho just isn't that great at dead ball set pieces.

09 Feb 2015 05:11:09
Ed002, How does Howard Webb come into this?

08 Feb 2015 09:11:10
So where are the fans who believe we can still finish top 4? What a joke this season has been. Rodgers will be gone when the season has finished. His ego has blown his chances of staying on as manager. Been one of Rodgers biggest fans but the first half of this season and our wastefulness in the transfer market this season changed my view of him unfortunately.

Out of his depth to manage a club as big as this.

There is a lot of points to play for, top four positions will go down to the wire, a point at Everton is not the worst in the world. Big game on Tuesday and Top four is well within our reach.

Rogers starting to piss about with the team again to play Gerrard, we will see what happens. If we don't get champions league with that squad and money spent, he will be sacked and rightly so.

Yes we weren't great. And the only real change was stevie coming in(think Ibe improved us).
Think if lucas hadn't come off stevie would have. But I think he deserves to have one last Merseyside derby, and we as fans owe him at least that much.
He has given everything to us down the years, but not too many fans seem to care about that.

08 Feb 2015 12:21:12
Hi maxlfc, here I am, a fan who believes top 4 is possible.
Football is all ifs and buts. So, if we beat Spurs on Tuesday leaving 13 games to go, then yeah why not?

I agree that playing Gerrard is disruptive, but if Lucas is injured I'd rather Gerrard then Allen in the side. My 6 month old kitten is harder to push over then little Welsh Xavi. It's a shame we don't have anyone capable of replacing and performing as well as Can at RCB, so he could come into Lucas' position.

Also agree, if we don't finish top four Rodgers should go, only Chelsea have been consistent and great this season. This, like last season is full of teams like City,Utd,Arsenal making mistakes. If we had played like last season, if Suarez we replaced with a player of that level even if all the cash had to be spent on him we'd be 2nd and challenging again. It's the same squad, less Suarez. If depth was really required then like Ibe, there are players already there waiting. I believe Can was already earmarked as Gerrards replacement and was in place before Munich could activate their clause? The only loss on the summer would have been Markovic, not fussed about the others.

{Ed002's Note - How can you possibly think it is the same squad less Suarez. You are completely deluded.}

08 Feb 2015 08:53:59
Ed1 if ya around. What do you think of gerrards free kicks over the years. Is he really our best option for set pieces? I know he has scored a couple, but because he's the captain does he think he has the right. I know when suarez was taking them i had a lot more confidence in thinking something may come of it.

{Ed001's Note - no, I have always thought he is far too good in the air to be taking the free kicks. He should be in the mix putting pressure on the defence. Only problem is I am not sure who else we have at the club now who is able to deliver them! So Gerrard is there by default for me.}

And unfortunately for him and us, he has been poor at set-piece deliveries this season.

08 Feb 2015 08:34:37
Guys I think not all derbies are going to go liverpools ways

I know people didn't understand the substitutions but te team didn't lose and Everton didn't do much either

I don't think there's a problem with the formation or anything like that


I personally think the players themselves need to score more to help out sterling
So other players need to chip in
Coutinho lallana Henderson bla bla need double figures in my opinion

But anyway the spurs game will be interesting

Then you guys who had a problem yesterday with rogers decision should wait for this game and then see if u guys have a point or not

We have a very important 2 months ahead where we will be playing teams in and around us and ahead of us - Spurs, Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, S'oton. We need to win to have any chance of getting Top 4.

08 Feb 2015 04:29:24
People are giving BR and Gerrard a lot of flack tonight, but I will say that managing an aging superstar is the most difficult thing to do in any sport. SG is still the captain, and I'm willing to bet the most dominant personality in the locker room. I would also bet that a lot of the younger players look to Gerrard for advice. This isn't fifa, and you cannot simply cast someone aside who has as much influence in the locker room as he does even if our best team doesn't include him in it for fear of real chemistry problems. It's clearly time for a separation, and I hope SG is the best player in the MLS when he gets there; but for all the mistakes BR has made in the media, transfer market, etc I do think people need some perspective with this issue.

I agree and will just add that even when he doesn't have a great match like yesterday he can still be threatening. His free kick in the first half was straight to the top corner, unfortunately for us their keeper read it well and his overhead kick in the second half if not blocked was bang on goal.

{Ed001's Note - I disagree completely on the not casting away an ageing star point. It has to be done or you end up with a disruption in the dressing room and on the training ground as they get frustrated at having their time on the pitch limited. Bob Paisley saw how that affected the team under Bill Shankly, so he always made a point of moving players on early. That is why he was so much more successful so quickly than anyone else has been. He was ruthless, but fair.

Hanging on to players out of sentiment is the worst thing you can do (unless you compare that to hanging on to a manager out of sentiment and paying them millions for 20 days work a year, that might possibly be worse. If nothing else, it makes it more difficult for any other manager to succeed with him looking over their shoulder). There are many reasons for it, for one being ruthless with players whose performance has dipped keeps the rest of the team on their toes and makes them work harder to keep their place. There is less friction as an older player knows he is not able to perform to his best and so gets frustrated with himself and will, unconsciously, take that out on those around him.

It is easier to put off the decision, but the easy route is very rarely the correct or best route.}

08 Feb 2015 09:05:28
Totally agree with Ed on this one. Bob Paisley once said let the players lose their legs somewhere else, they are not losing them here. He was ruthless and very,very successful with it.

I have to agree with the eds on this one. Over the years the better liverpool managers always knew when to get rid of a player who was past his best. You have to be ruthless or they will only hold the team back. Unfortunately Gerard should have gone at the end of last season as it is clear that we are now a better team without him.

Proven managers have the ability and courage to do what is needed to win and remain successful. BP and Shanks had that and did what was right for the club and which is not the easy way to go. If it was, EVERYONE would be a successful manager. We have allowed SG to linger here too long and as a result, is disrupting the flow of the team on a weekly basis.