Liverpool Banter Archive November 07 2017

 

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07 Nov 2017 19:35:05
Hi Ed's and fellow reds!

Not sure if am in the right place for this, but how do we start a new Liverpool player song?

Me and my son are really enjoying Mo Salah, and I can't help but to spring into song when's he works his magic.

Tune is 2 unlimited, no limit.

Lyrics;

Let me hear you say yeah!


Mo, Mo, Mo, Mo
Mo, mo
Mo Mo Mo Mo
Mo Mo there's MO SALAH

Mo Mo Mo MO
Mo Mo
MO MO MO MO
MO MO there's Mo Salah

Mo Mo Salah we'll reach for the sky,
No valley too deep, no mountain too high.
Mo MO Salah won't give up the fight.
He do what he want and he do it with pride.

Perhaps a little long!

Please forward to where it may be used.

Keep going red men!


Xxx.

Believable7 Unbelievable2

07 Nov 2017 20:30:23
Lol that'd be excellent mate.


07 Nov 2017 20:38:12
Not sure what to say. If this one gets sung on the Kop then Credit to you.


07 Nov 2017 21:11:56
I miss the catchy songs, best I think in a while was the bounce, was that good it came with the anticipation song we gunna bounce in a minute too.


07 Nov 2017 22:40:51
I think this is a great shout mate!
Mickmullin loved the bounce.


07 Nov 2017 23:16:31
Wheres the rap part?


08 Nov 2017 01:10:37
Are you a cow (≧▽≦) (≧▽≦) (≧▽≦)


08 Nov 2017 03:19:36
Good idea. It works well man. i'm a songwriter and that's pretty good song for Mo

He has the right number of beats in his name for "There's only one Mo Salah"


08 Nov 2017 04:11:31
is this the original beat to the toure song?


08 Nov 2017 07:07:41
It's the original song for momo sissoko for us.


07 Nov 2017 12:51:27
Hi eds1
I think you've talked about west hams defensive midfielder Pedro Obiang as a possible player we could look at. Just interested to see how you thought he got on against us the other day.
Thanks 👍🏻.

Believable0 Unbelievable1

{Ed001's Note - he was trying to do the running for Noble so not good.}

07 Nov 2017 13:17:44
Pedro Obiang is not the answer to our DM needs. I have seen a lot of him and specially in his time in Italy at Sampdoria where he was more of a box to box player. Decent player but will only be backup at Liverpool.


07 Nov 2017 14:01:13
i haven't seen him play much but he was pretty poor against us. I don't like him for us. Not good enough. Keita is going to be such an addition, its going to energise our midfield proper. So we'll have Keita, Hendo and Lallana/ Wijnaldum. I think that is a fantastic addition. It feels more like a Can replacement rather than a couts replacement. We all know pc is irreplaceable so I would expect us to look at someone of the same mould as the guys we have. Box to box, super fit, good passer, good on the ball. I'm not 100% sure about the defensive midfielder. It works for city and Chelsea. even utd, but we are more like arsenal than any of them, we want to attack and we want to play beautiful football. I'd expect us to get someone who can put a decent tackle in but I think the boys will get our system sorted, with the interchangeable midfield. When it works it is awesome. We don't have to copy city's style just coz it works for them.

This is leftfield but I still think we can win this league. okay we're miles away from city atm but the others are well in sight. City are going to have a blip. They have to come to Anfield, they have other tough away games. I think lfc have had their blip. Luckily pour blip wasn't that bad, only losing two or three games and drawing a few. I really feel we have turned the corner. The boys have looked great recently with our new signings proper buzzing. I knew the Ox would be brilliant. he is going to become a fan favourite, I bet ya.

Another leftfield comment. Klavan has looked really good recently. Fair play to him for battling for Liverpool football club and covering for Dejan. The guy has played well. A couple of the signings who we poor in their first season or so seem to be coming good. ie, moreno, Klavan. It can only be a good thing.


07 Nov 2017 14:53:37
Is this Ron in disguise?!


07 Nov 2017 14:56:29
No probs with your opinion superred but I would love a DM even if it’s not every game. I think we need to protect the defence. All so klavan has not played against anyone quick in the last few games. He is not the answer!


07 Nov 2017 13:54:53
Thanks for the reply.


{Ed001's Note - very welcome mate.}

07 Nov 2017 15:01:58
Romeu from Southampton is a good DM, and as Southampton love us as much as we love their players it should be plain sailing.


07 Nov 2017 16:19:47
Once Mignolet is out of the starting eleven on a permanent basis then I think everything will start falling into place.

Karius getting geared up for next season by starting for us in the CL. .


08 Nov 2017 03:23:36
Longthing, I am not saying Klavan is the answer, just that he has been pretty solid in these last three games. Much better than last season. I would also worry if he had really top strikers running off his shoulder but he is a real battler and credit where it's due, he has done good.


07 Nov 2017 12:18:22
What about the biggest villain of my childhood, Federico Macheda.

Believable3 Unbelievable1

07 Nov 2017 13:38:32
You mean Ronaldo Mk2?


07 Nov 2017 14:35:17
how old (I mean young) must you be to have him as a villain of your youth. God i must be old at 38.


07 Nov 2017 14:55:37
I know mikey, making me feel ancient now.


07 Nov 2017 17:25:45
I am 21 and have read this site since I was 12. Back when it was just football-rumours. Federico Macheda ruined my life, martin tylers voice crack still haunts me.


07 Nov 2017 18:04:15
I'm 24 in January, beef. If it makes you feel better it get's easier to block out Martin Tyler as you get older. Your hearing starts going over the next few years (and your hair) .

He goes so high pitched that the frequency of his voice is close to 20KHz. As you age, you hearing upper range falls to about 18Khz and his voice is inaudible to your old git ear drums 😁.


07 Nov 2017 12:13:33
Hendo not joining up with England. At last, some common sense.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

{Ed025's Note - from england.. :)

07 Nov 2017 14:02:02
Why is he not hooking up with England? He is in the squad.


{Ed002's Note - He is injured and Liverpool are trying to get him fit.}

07 Nov 2017 13:02:24
Heheh NOT FUNNY. But enjoy Big Sam ed ;)


{Ed025's Note - i cant im afraid KIAK, i dislike the guy intensely but there is nothing i can do about it mate..

07 Nov 2017 20:22:56
That's now west Brom man u and everton I won't be watching.


{Ed025's Note - you wont be missing much irish..

08 Nov 2017 03:29:11
of course, thanks for the reply Ed025. Fair play to the blues on the weekend. good result. Showed some heart for once. I think they have turned a corner now too maybe. That was an important win and must of been a real confidence boost to come back like that

Why was the Ox not been picked? Is it just because he wants to give the youngsters a chance (GS) or is he injured too?


{Ed025's Note - we got lucky to be fair superred, thats unusual for a team thats in trouble but it could just be a false dawn we will have to see mate, i give up trying to second guess southgate and never look forward to england games, i see it as a blessing if your players are not picked now..

08 Nov 2017 08:40:12
lol ed025, I'm with you on watching England, they are so boring and they move the ball so slowly. they walk with the ball sometimes in the FINAL third! What? I still watch, I can't help myself. it was like when I got hooked on Coronation Street, I didn't wanna watch but I couldn't help myself!

Yeah, i'm glad Hendo Lallana and AOC are not going. I reckon we might see Lallana for Chelsea and Seville. Take care mate.
thanks again for the reply,

I only watched everton game on motd. I thought everton showed a lot of heart, sometimes you deserve a bit of luck. God knows we've had it. but who hasn't? Swindon?


{Ed025's Note - no problem mate..

07 Nov 2017 12:09:49
So Liverpool have only allowed 86 shots against them this season, one of the best figures, but have conceded from nearly 20% of them, the worst in the league. Anyone still think our defence is ok? (Figures from Optima via BBC) .

Believable0 Unbelievable9

07 Nov 2017 12:24:00
These numbers say the defense in not the problem though don't they?
They obviously say our keeper can't stop the shots despite being a good ''shot stopper''

As posted earlier on the site, Mignolet has one of the worst shots to goals ratio in any of Europe top 5 league.


07 Nov 2017 12:50:32
It also means IMO.

1) we have been playing a system that doesn’t give away much possession or chances. esp more scared and defensive sides like Huddersfield, Maribor and Man Utd ;)
2) however we also expose our defenders by playing a high line and aggressive system, so when we give away possession, they’re typically high percentage chances

Having said that I would agree it would help if we had a keeper that can save more than the run of the mill. We’ve also adapted our system recently to be a bit more balanced of late, hopefully the new system continues to improve these stats.


07 Nov 2017 13:03:13
Well put SGRed!


07 Nov 2017 13:27:39
This is the classic thing about interpreting stats. I wouldn't conclude from this that the stats reflect badly on the keeper but that the chances we give away are so easy that the keeper doesn't have a chance. To me these stats defend the keeper not the other way round.


{Ed001's Note - if that was true then the team would give up lots of shots. Teams which give up lots of easy shots are unable to stop difficult shots. You make no sense with your bizarre conclusion.}

07 Nov 2017 13:55:40
Just to clarify - by ‘defence’ I meant the whole lot of them and the system. But I have to add. Oh for a world class goalie!


07 Nov 2017 14:06:34
look, the defence has conceded, what is it? 2 goals at home? all season. That is very impressive. I know our away form is very different but it think that fact tells us the boys CAN defend.

Like I've said, We have had our blip, it wasn't so bad, I Still think we can win this league.


07 Nov 2017 14:14:55
Screw the stats. Mignolet is a terrible keeper, Matip is lazy, Lovren is error prone, Klavan is slow, Gomez lacks experience, Moreno is being told to attack high up the pitch, and Henderson is not a defensive midfielder.

I have no stats to back any of that up, but i think it's clear just from watching why we concede too many goals. No need to complicate it.


07 Nov 2017 14:43:56
That means you need another 6 players in the summer MK? 😆😆😆.


07 Nov 2017 14:56:50
Exactly MK, that's how I look at things as well mate.


07 Nov 2017 15:10:52
Why Harry?
1. Gomez is only inexperienced so by sticking with him he'll iron out his mistakes, and he should move to centre back next year.
2. Moreno is playing high up, but that is just the system so a new player won't change anything.
3. We already have 2 players at the club to replace Mignolet.

So that just leaves a new defensive midfielder, a new centre back and a new right back. 3 new players out of the entire starting XI. Job done. You don't have to make wholesales changes to improve something.


07 Nov 2017 15:29:18
There’s some nugget or more of truth in all those comments MK but very harsh to take it that far on individual players. I do think 95% of players have their weaknesses and an important element is to set the team up to prevent those being exposed. for example

- if you have Klavan in your side, play to protect that weakness against pace, not expose it. He’s played very well in last three games mostly because we’ve had plenty of cover for him in a back 3 so he’s less isolated one on one, plus he’s played very well against mostly more physical players so makes perfect sense for him to start against Huddersfield or Maribor. he’s brave and physical
- likewise we also look much better playing a semi-back 3 when moreno is licensed to maraud forward, leaving us less exposed to the counterattack
- we can use Gomez very effectively to provide some pace in the backline too, and to cover Matip who seems to struggle when turned around
- Hendo is very effective in a gengen-press system when we have Gini/ Lallana ahead of him. Those three are extremely effective together, but put in Can or Milner and sides play through them far easier and we’re then better off playing Can at CDM IMO and playing Hendo further forward IMO

I’m not saying we have the best defence by any stretch - we’re way behind the likes of Tottenham, but I do think we can help ourselves a bit more by boxing clever as we’ve seen from the last 3 games.


07 Nov 2017 18:21:07
Mistakes. I don't complain when we concede a goal from normal play, it's when Lovren completely misses the ball and gifts the other team a Goal is when I'm annoyed.
The entire defence and keeper is terrible and we won't win a single thing with them.


07 Nov 2017 19:23:31
Ed, I'll take that as a request to elaborate 😉

We've been through this before, a year ago we were in the same situation, we were conceding a disproportionate number of goals to shots. It didn't matter if Migs or Karius was in goal the result was the same.

Unless Karius and Migs were equally awful keepers these stats didn't make sense. Was there an alternative logical explanation? It comes from Klopp's style and how high we play up the pitch, essentially the ball spends most of the time in the opponent's half, this naturally restricts the number of shots we concede.

However, when our press is defeated our team is upfield and our defenders are isolated. This means that the chances we do concede are relatively easy.

This explains both why we concede so few shots and why we concede a disproportionate number of goals to shots. Hence my conclusion that these stats are actually a defence of the keeper not the opposite. Migs had a harder job than most keepers.


{Ed001's Note - how can you even bring Karius into this when he has had just 16 games in that period. 6 of those were clean sheets, which means either he made saves or you are suggesting he had nothing to do in those 6 games. Saying that he had nothing to do, which he must have had judging by your decision that we were conceding a disproportionate number of goals to shots and that means you are basing a statistical analysis on just 10 games. Sorry but that is impossible to do, any analyst who has a clue will tell you that the number is too low to draw any meaningful conclusion from that.

For starters it does not rule out anomalies like the first few games being while he recovered his confidence after a broken hand. Suggesting he is equally as bad as Migs is just nonsense and shows a lack of understanding of how to use stats.

Not that I should be surprised as the whole thread is based on nonsense stats that are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether the keepers have let in shots they should have saved. Migs does that repeatedly, he has let in shots I would have backed myself to save, let alone a Premier League keeper. Has Karius done so? I have yet to see him do so.

The only thing the stats tell us is that Mignolet is not good enough, as a good keeper will save even some 'easy' shots, whereas he has been guilty of letting in the first shot he has faced on more occasions than any other keeper in the league. Karius has never even come close to comparing to that.

Also, your reading of the stats is deficient as you failed to notice that we dropped the press for the second half of last season and barely used it. So how can a high press be at fault for Mignolet being useless?}

07 Nov 2017 23:04:46
I defend Migs not because I think he's a great keeper but because I think this site has gone overboard in its criticism of him recently and a lot of fan frustration is being unloaded on him because he's a safe target. In a month or two it will be someone else who's singled out and then I'll defend them, it's just my way.


07 Nov 2017 20:52:05
Ed001 Its interesting that Migs was a much better gk in the second half of last season. I initially thought it was due to the affects of the improved training sessions. However considering his drop off in performance this year as we switched back to the high press Im really starting to think it must be a mental thing with Migs. Could he perform better when he isn't isolated because he is more confident that if he makes a mistake then someone will be thereto cleanup (or maybe he isn't so aware of the spotlight)? I suspect his biggest weakness is his fear of making mistakes. Much of his issues with coming for the ball seem to be related to him second guessing himself. Defenders want decisive gks - doesn't matter if the decision is wrong but they need to know what he is going to do.


{Ed001's Note - we haven't switched back to the high press.}

08 Nov 2017 03:49:44
I love your loyalty Putney, reminds me of something I would say. Ed seems to know a bit about analysis and it sounds right that only ten games can not give you an accurate result. If you took the ten games at the beginning of last season then people would predict that we were going to win the league.

We can all see that migs is poor. We do play high press a lot and Matip is too lazy to race back. I don't actually think he can run full pelt. Klavan has been decent recently but he may come undone against Chelsea.

Mignolet

Matip and

Klavan/ Lovren

They are the central unit of our defence. The big boys. they are not names to put the fear of death into attackers. A club like Liverpool should have Better CBs than that. I would go with Gomes and Lovren when he is fit but I really hope we sign a big name in January.

That goofy lad "Pope" has been pretty impressive for the Burn. What do you guys think of him (Apart from the fact that he sucked his thumb until he was 14)

I believe that we have two top class keepers at the club but we are playing the worst one week in week out. the only thing that makes sense is that migs is really good in training? better than the others?


07 Nov 2017 11:58:03
Good day Redmen,

3 wins out of 3, who would of thought that a couple weeks ago! Dare I say it will be 4 out of 4 after the international break?

With comfortable wins for mens, the u23 and the u18s, let's see how the loan players faired for the week.

Ryan Kent did not make the squad as Freiburg lost 1-0 to Schalke

Toni Gomes got a late run out as Forest Green beat Macclesfield in the FA Cup.

Jordan Williams had an enjoyable day as Rochdale beat Bromley 4-0 in the FA Cup.

Allan played for the final 10 minutes as Apollon conceded a late equaliser to draw 1-1 with AEK.

Fired up by his last minute equaliser last week Origi started for Wolfsburg at home to Hertha Berlin in a cracking 3-3 draw.
Origi set up his teams second and hit another late equaliser.
Wolfsburg have set a new bundesliga record drawing 7 matches in a row.

Chirivella returned from injury this weekend and played the full 90 for Willem II.
Unfortunately it was not the result they wanted losing 3-2 to AZ seeing them drop into the relegation places.

Shamal George was an unused sub as Carlisle beat Oldham 3-2 in the FA Cup.

Connor Randal returned to the starting 11 after his suspension and played for 77 minutes.
As Hearts chased the winner Kilmarnock caught them on the counter and won 2-1!

Ojo missed out through injury as Fulham lost to top of the table Wolves 2-0.

Keita came off the bench in the 60th minute as RBL beat Hannover 2-1.
Hes having a strange season by all accounts, is anybody watching him closely who can provide more detail?

Taiwo Awoniyi pplayed the full 90 as REM lost 2-0 away to Waasland-Beveren.

And that's your lot redmen.

Believable12 Unbelievable0

07 Nov 2017 12:11:56
Thanks, as always, Carra.


07 Nov 2017 12:25:18
Cheers carra.


07 Nov 2017 14:13:00
Thanks Carra, Great to hear about our lads out there making a name for themselves.

There seems to be a lot of young British players playing in Europe, Which is great as we have the best youngsters in the world (FACT) Is this a new thing or has it always been this way Carra? i'm wondering if this is a new innititive.


07 Nov 2017 14:51:31
Strange, it seems like Kent's last minute loan move in Europe isn't working out. Who would have thought?

Keita right now is struggling a little with expectations and a lot with the fans. Lots of people at RBL claimed that he didn't care anymore when he signed with us and his reaction has been all energy performance after performance, which in his position is a recipe for stunning runs, spectacular goals and regular cards. He'll get over it I'm sure and even if he doesn't this year, I can't see it being a factor next year. While he's been on the field, he's been the high standard and style we're hoping he'll bring to our middle. He will have a lot of expectations when he hits out midfield though and he will need to deal with it better than he has dealt with the pressure of being the frowned on star of RBL.

(Watched him vs Dortmund, Munich, Porto, Stuggart and 'Gladbach)


07 Nov 2017 16:48:02
Thanks Hjikle.

@Superred our loan system has improved under Klopp, the loans for players seem more structured and planned with most of them getting regular game time, there are however a few who should maybe get recalled in January as it doesn't seem to be working.
Under Rogers players were sent here, there and everywhere and I remember an Ed stating at the time that we had no protocol in place to even keep in touch with the players! I believe this has been addressed now.


08 Nov 2017 03:52:44
Thanks for your reply Carra. I think it's great that British players or lads from British teams are getting noticed all over Europe. It used to be a very rare thing for players to go abroad. Sounds like things are cool at Liverpool under Klopp. That's great. Have a goodun Carra.


08 Nov 2017 13:00:00
I wanted to keep Kent! That wasn’t welcomed on the page! He did more than enough during pre-season to me!


Former Liverpool Managers Part 3 - The First Shock Resignation

07 Nov 2017 10:14:18
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Former Liverpool Managers Part 3 - The First Shock Resignation

Believable5 Unbelievable0

07 Nov 2017 10:48:23
Very interesting mate, briliant, thank you.


07 Nov 2017 17:49:31
Ed001. This is class. Thank you for all the articles you’ve been pulling together recently! It is really appreciated

Red Sandman.


{Ed001's Note - cheers Sandman, really glad you enjoyed it.}

07 Nov 2017 06:53:55
What's the plan for Grujic? Someone mentioned he is been used as a defensive midfielder in the under 23 team. Smart idea considering there are too many B2B midfielders at the club already.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

07 Nov 2017 07:49:26
He played in the holding role for the u23's in a 3-1 victory over Manchester United. He was arguably the best player on the pitch as well.

I agree, it would be very clever to develop him for the position now when he is young enough to grasp it. Could be a masterstroke, could back fire. Hopefully it's the former!


07 Nov 2017 08:10:01
I really hope we see more of him cos if he leaves he will be one we regret letting go I guarantee.


07 Nov 2017 08:58:48
The club should then persist with the CDM role for Grujic. Could save us having to splash out on a specialist CDM in the summer that Klopp may not even play regularly. Grujic is not going to start ahead of Keita, Lallana, Gini so maybe he could prove a worthy challenger to Hendo for the CDM role.


07 Nov 2017 08:59:31
Harry no need to dramatize it mate. We signed a 19 year old who had not yet established himself as a certain kind of midfielder.

What is wrong with a 21 year old playing in our u23's, getting the odd first team cameo, and working on becoming a specialist for a certain role?

You are right, we have no idea what position he will be used in going forward. You rarely ever do with young players though. You shouldn't confine them to one role at a young age because you might find that your rubbish left back develops into a brilliant winger. Gareth Bale?

There is no rush. Grujic has time on his side, and he is learning new things. Leave him to it and stop heaping unnecessary pressure on him to be playing first team football and know his best position.


07 Nov 2017 10:17:33
You've lost me now Harry. You just quoted me and tried to claim it was your own post?

Grujic is a kid. Not every youth player develops at the same rate as Raheem Sterling. We all knew Sterling was special from day one. That doesn't mean Grujic is a bad player though.

You say the club has no idea what to do with Grujic as if we should already know the position a 21 year old will play for the next decade.

Gerrard started at right back. Henry on the wing. Lucas in attacking midfield. Bale at left back. Kompany was a midfielder. Ederson was an outfield player!

Again, you're obsessing over player roles. Grujic has another 2 years before he (and Klopp) needs to know who he is as a player. There is no need to start whittling over what type of midfielder he will be. Let him develop into whatever he will be in his own time. So what if he doesn't become a £50m player? He pretty much cost nothing in the world of football.

Chill out mate 😉.


07 Nov 2017 10:24:49
Good post mate but the only thing I would say it's that the players you offer as a counterpoint were mostly playing first team football already. I hold my hand up, I haven't fact checked my own claim either but it's how I remember it in my own head. I would certainly like to see him stay though and break into first team.


07 Nov 2017 10:41:11
Grujic was called the new Matic in Serbia so hopefully he'll become as good a DM.


07 Nov 2017 10:50:54
To be fair Umbilical, they were all playing in worse teams than our current side though.

Grujic has still managed a few sub appearances this season and played the whole game in the League Cup. Just getting on our bench at 21 takes some degree of quality when you see how massive the squad is.

Different players develop at different rates anyway. If Rodgers had understood that, maybe we'd have Suso and Gulacsi in the team instead of Milner and Mignolet ☹ Klopp seems more patient. He gave Kevin Stewart until he was 24 to prove himself for us. He isn't rushing the likes of Ward, Origi or Kent out the door either; instead giving them chances and loans to develop and prove themselves.

Grujic may be a slow burner. It might be hard for him to adapt as well. Those i listed may have been playing more regularly in the first team at 21, but they may have been in countries where they knew the language fluently? Grujic also needs to adapt to no longer being so much physically stronger than everyone else on the pitch like he was at youth level. Now he is up against men, his physicality alone isn't enough.

We as a club have got to learn to be more patient. I'm glad you say you would like to see him stay and provide him with the chance to break into the team. Some fans just want shot of anyone who isn't a £50m player by 21 years old. It's sad that football has gotten that way. I honestly don't think a legend like Carragher would've made it at the top level if he had come through 20 years later. He was terrible at the start of his career. Patience paid off though.


07 Nov 2017 11:28:16
We paid £5m for him 😂 how is that over the top for a player rated highly across Europe?

I'm also pretty sure he wasn't signed with the thought "we'll sell him for a 900% profit in 2 years". He has been signed for a long term future at the club. In the short term, he is not quite ready to be a first team regular, but so what? He's 21 for god sake.

Danny Ings was not expecting to leave either so you've made that up. He is still recovering from a very long injury lay off, and wants to stay and fight fir a Liverpool future. Danny Ward also wants to fight for a place at Liverpool long term. Under previous regimes he'd have been sold 3 years ago to a club in League 1 or 2. Klopp has given him chances to go on loan and play in our first team though, whilst working with better coaches at Liverpool than he would have in the football league, and he has become a far better player for it. Ward hasn't had enough first team chances for my liking, but he's had more than the likes of Gulacsi ever got. Ings and Ward will probably both get another loan move in January. Klopp is being patient with them despite their age. I honestly don't know why you'd bring them up. They don't support your point at all. Were they £50m players at 21? No. And yet somehow they are still at the club and still might have a future here. It's hard to even decipher your point to be honest. Though it looks like you're just taking a cheap pop shot at FSG, which is completely u related to this thread.

You are talking about a load of nonsense, not "the business point". We don't buy players to sell them for a profit. We buy players to develop them and compete on the pitch. If they think they've outgrown us and force their way out and we make a profit, then that profit is just collateral for us losing a good player. When we lost Sterling, we went out and signed Firmino for an absolute fortune. If what you were saying was true, and the club are just buying young to sell and make money, we'd have pocketed £45m from the Sterling sale and used the £5m left to go and sign someone like Nathan Redmond. Like Southampton do.

FSG constantly get these ridiculous, uneducated accusations thrown at them. We have an astronomical net spend since they took over. Only City, United and Chelsea have spent more. I feel like you're just ranting and deflecting now. How on earth have you gone from Marko Grujic playing DM for the u23's, to questioning the clubs ambition?


07 Nov 2017 11:54:26
Just to pick up on a few other points actually Harry. Grujic was not ignored, he was injured. Whenever he has been fully fit during his time at the club, he's been involved with the first team and made cameo appearances.

As for Brannagan, he played the other day for the u23's in a 7-0 win and is also still just a kid. His issue now is that Ejaria, Woodburn and Arnold can all play positions he plays in and are more highly rated. He was probably supposed to go on loan in the summer but he got injured.

You're making things up, again.

I'm going to take a stab in the dark here; you're upset that Coutinho is leaving aren't you? So you're pointing the finger at the club for signing young players to make a profit because Coutinho joined for £8.5m as a teenager, and then we are selling him for in excess of £100m when he asks to leave. The problem with your argument is Harry, we sell the likes of Sterling and Coutinho because they want to leave. Not because we want to sell them.

All of the money will be reinvested. So your point is mute buddy. And i still don't really know why you chose to bring it up on this thread by making a lose comparison to the Grujic situation.


07 Nov 2017 12:00:24
Harry what are you on about? Paid over the tops? He was cheap by today’s standards. Who expected him to hit the ground running? Only you most likely. Even the Ed’s said we was well sought after but not ready for first team football. How did Klopp ignore him? He was injured for a lot of the time and obviously struggled to get up to fitness. The team requirements has now changed so seems like a good idea if we can develop Him into a role which fulfills our needs.


07 Nov 2017 12:28:11
Well said Swish cleaner. It's all about developing players into what you need. No point in coaching the whole academy for the same positions, or for positions where they have no chance of a career at the club.


07 Nov 2017 12:50:57
Talking rubbish AGAIN Harry! Totally agree with you MK. I can’t even be bothered to write any more on the matter though as it falls on deaf ears with Harry and MK your wasting valuable moments if your life trying to explain to him mate.


07 Nov 2017 13:00:09
You expected a 19 year old playing in the Serbian league to hit the ground running in the premier league, despite being injured nearly all season?

You're right Welshred84, i really am wasting my time here!


07 Nov 2017 13:34:42
I see sideways has a point.

If only he had agreed to his father and continued his development he would have been better off.

He has been stagnating for 2 years now. Injured or developing in reserves from a first team locally.

Cheers.


07 Nov 2017 14:55:30
So if he doesn't ever play in the first team as a regular, that means I'm wrong that it was ever the plan for him to play for LFC? But then go on to say he wasn't signed to be a reserve player? You are just contradicting yourself now. You're argument has more holes in it than a crumpet (that's a British delicacy by the way) .

The long term plan for every player at every level of every club is to get them into the first team. Football is not a wish granting industry though. If you don't make the cut, you get moved on. The plan for Grujic is and always has been for him to be a first team regular one day in some capacity. Just like it is for every player at LFC right down to the 6 year olds in the academy.

My only argument throughout this whole thing has been that writing Grujic off indefinitely is ridiculous. I'm not sat here telling everyone he will definitely make it at LFC as a first team regular. I'm just saying he still has a chance. You on the other hand are acting like a know it all, claiming your opinion that he won't make it as a fact. Then you follow it up with "come back in a year" knowing full well nobody is childish enough to actually bother doing it if you do turn out to be wrong.

Everything is black and white with you. Grujic might not make it at LFC, but it is far to early to completely write him off. Why can't you accept that there are grey areas in football? There are no guarantees. It is a game built on foundations of subjectivity with an infinite number of variables.

You bring up Ibe and Allan; Why? Ibe was a better youth player (up to age 18) than Sterling hands down. Anyone who watched them both as kids will tell you that. At 16, Ibe was scoring a screamer for Wycombe seniors. Sterling had not even stepped onto a pitch at senior level. However, Sterling developed later on at around 19-21 years old to surpass Ibe, whilst Ibe stagnated at about 19 and stopped developing. Your example yet again just proves my point that players develop at different rates which is why you can't write Grujic off. As for Allan, what on earth does he have to do with anything? He can't get a work permit but that is completely unrelated to anything we've discussed.

I'm not trying to bring a calmness or relief over anything mate. I'm just asking you to stop with the hyperbole. You go so over the top about your views, stating them as facts, that it makes you seem arrogant. I have never seen you use the phrase "in my opinion". You just make statements as though they are non-debatable and occasionally write "FACT" at the end just to really wind people up.

What i don't get is how your point has now morphed away from Grujic being a failure for not being worth £50m at 21, to slagging off the clubs transfer policy, to now slagging off the way it gets the best out of its youngsters. You are so easily side-tracked that it makes coherent debate with you nearly impossible mate!

Liverpool and every other team in England with an academy mainly signs young players (some of which leave us for profit), and Liverpool does have a poor recent history of developing some young players. However, the very fact that we sell a lot of players at a profit proves that we do occassionally get it right with youngsters! Added to that, the fact that we have signed players who were already the finished article is just further proof that the club doesn't just sign kids hoping to make a profit.

A) We are trying to sign players to win on the pitch (Salah, Keita, Ox, Robertson) so clearly not just kids (Solanke) . 4 out of 5 summer signings were senior players. If we had got Van Dijk as well it would've been an even greater percentage. Although perhaps you think we were willing to pay £60m for Van Dijk so we could sell him for £180m in 3 years time when he is nearly 30?

B) Not all youngsters at the club fail, or else we wouldn't have improved the likes of Sterling and Coutinho so much so that we could get £200m for 2 players who cost £9m combined.

So morph your point into something else because you're still stating subjective views, which can be easily disproved, as though they are concrete facts.


07 Nov 2017 18:31:53
Harry posts a whole lot of stuff but says a whole lot of nothing. I have read this thread and all Harry is saying is that cos Grujic has not made the progress that he only, would have liked for him to make, he will be a flop if he does not make the first team. It is the typical myopic thinking that has dogged his comments on these boards.

Everything is black and white with him as NO grey areas or context exists in his posts. This is why he hates Klopp and Hendo. Cos Klopp does not do what he thinks Klopp should do, he is useless and should be sacked whenever that is. Cos Hendo does no play the same way a past or non LFC player of his liking plays (Alonso, Fernandinho, Dembele, Dier etc), he is crap and must be sold, as if these players don't pass sideways when they play. Like Welsh said, you are wasting your time MK.


07 Nov 2017 02:58:56
Ed001,

If you’re really thinking of writing about some “villains” may I suggest a few names and ask for your opinion on them please?

First up is the despicable, cheating, diving Ashley Young.

I struggle to recall a player who so frequently gets booked for simulation!

Next has to be Graeme “Tiny Tears” Le Saux. A true gob-sh*te who always seemed to get away with things because he could articulate himself well to posh-nob referees like David “Penalty King” Elleray.

And who could forget Dennis Wise? One nasty little thug who, for some inexplicable reason, had a cheeky-chappy persona in the media and was loved by Keys and Gray.

Thanks in advance.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - well Young is a diver, a genuine diver who only needs to be breathed on to be on the floor writhing in agony after 6 rolls. Shame because he works hard and is a real trier. You have to give him credit for the fact that such a skinny little weakling, who can be brushed past and it sends him flying, can manage to cope with the physical side of being a full back. Does make the diving seem even more cringeworthy.

Le Saux and Wise are very similar cowardly type players who only did the nasty things behind people's backs. They would always bottle it when it came to facing up. They both got away with things because they would be friendly with officials. Wise was worse by a long way, Le Saux was too busy whining to officials to have time to do as many little niggly things. I couldn't stand either as players, which is a shame as they both had a lot of quality and would have been much better if they had just got on with the game.}

07 Nov 2017 07:52:21
How about Kevin Davies as an obscure suggestion? A striker who holds the record for the most yellow cards! It's like his elbows just had to smash people in the face!


{Ed001's Note - he has to be in there just because he always seemed to score against us!}

07 Nov 2017 08:10:56
From what I have read Andoni Goikoetxea is a villain! though I must admit I know very little about him.


07 Nov 2017 08:06:00
Don't get me wrong, I've read he's actually not a bad guy away from the pitch. On it though, he committed more fouls than any other player in the history of the Premier League, and is tied for most amount of yellow cards with Paul Scholes. Or at least he was last time i checked a few years back.

Guy was just a thug as a player! And the fact he always scored against LFC doesn't help either!

A few more obvious suggestions though; Adam Johnson (no explanation needed), Marlon King (no explanation needed), Lee Bowyer and Kieron Dyer as a duet (fighting on the pitch), Carlos Tevez (refusing to play everywhere he goes), Pepe (just violent), John Terry (cheat in every sense of the word), Javier Mascherano (another who is just violent), Ashley Cole (love cheat, and traitor as per Arsenal fans) etc. All for various reasons of course. Some much worse than others.


{Ed001's Note - cheers mate, good list, though Bowyer's fight on the pitch is the least of his indiscretions. He is a vile man.}

07 Nov 2017 08:29:33
I remember Paulo Di Canio being a bit of a thug.
But how about David Beckham? Remember kids were hanging effergies of him from lamposts in 1998.
Or how about that player who flicked the other players ear? Pure evil that was. Haha.


07 Nov 2017 08:53:26
Patrice Evra would be a good shout!


{Ed001's Note - especially amongst Marseille fans...}

07 Nov 2017 09:08:34
Think Cantona may make the list.


07 Nov 2017 10:16:58
Ed. Would you account Robbie Savage as a thug if the game. I hated him as a footballer and can’t make a judgement on his football punditry as I have never watched him.
Certainly Vinnie Jones has to make the list?


{Ed001's Note - Savage was as bad at playing as he is a pundit. Amazing he had a professional career at all really.

I love Vinnie Jones, but he has to go in, even if he was just doing as he was told to be fair to him.}

07 Nov 2017 10:55:46
The guy that Zidane headbutted, Mataratzi? he was one dirty player and crazy off it too.


07 Nov 2017 10:34:46
Ben Thatcher - Absolute thug who should have been kicked out of football for some of his challenges, especially that one with his elbow on Pedro Mendes.
Danny Mills - Some horrific challenges over the years.
Paul Scholes - Sly little $#it who got away with numerous red cards solely due to who he played for.
Alan Shearer - Absolutely lethal with his elbows and was notorious for kicking or bringing his studs down someone's achilles/ ankle.


{Ed001's Note - cheers mate.}

07 Nov 2017 11:02:09
Two words Eds 01, Leeds Utd.

There must be a book to write about their team in the early 70's.


{Ed001's Note - I am sure there are a few already out there but good point, getting called dirty in that era takes some doing!}

07 Nov 2017 12:04:37
Add Fellaini to that list, countless times got away with nasty elbows and bad tackles . Paolo montero the Uruguain was a nasty piece of work. Great defender though!


07 Nov 2017 22:28:34
Reading today about Pirlo and brought me back to Genarro Gattusso, I always liked him as a player although I know he had a bad reputation and didn't see too much of him! Anyone know more about his playing days. like was he a talented footballer as Well as a hard fecker?


06 Nov 2017 20:57:07
Ed001 if your about mate. What was thr actual formation v WHM please? Also it seemed to me that Salah was in the number 10 roll as well as RW at times. Was it a case of the front 4 interchanging?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - the formation changed. It started as a back 3 in possession with Moreno given freedom to get forward down the left. The midfield pair sat and the front four were given freedom to do what they wanted. When we lost possession it became more of a 4-4-2 variant. Moreno dropped in at left back and Mane on the left wing, Ox on the right. For the second half we just went with the 4-4-2 and held Moreno back so that it was an old fashioned full back pair rather than the modern wingback type.}

07 Nov 2017 07:57:34
Cheers ed. It certainly worked mate that's for sure. Hard to judge to much into the performance though imo as WHM were so poor. Good that Klopp has at least tried to change things a little since the Spurs game. If he is starting to look at a back 3 it highlights the need to bring in more CB's as youve suggested we are looking at a few. Who is most under threat mate would you say from that starting 11. Klavan? Although he has done ok since he has come in imo.


{Ed001's Note - from the starting 11 it is Can who is most under threat, though Klavan is likely to lose his place to Lovren as well.}

07 Nov 2017 08:39:43
I doubt he he would ever add a defender into his game. It was more like how spurs used to play prior to their back 3. drop in your midfielder in between the CB’s to make it 3 at athe back and start the attack from deep. Moreno and Can are the key here as they were strictly instructed to hold their lines!
I expect us to sign a world class holding mid in the summer who will act as your 3rd CB! A brilliant ball playing midfielder!


07 Nov 2017 08:51:32
I thought Can did a good job ed against WHM mate to be fair. I guess he only played the full game as Hendo was injured then?


{Ed001's Note - yes mate.}

07 Nov 2017 09:16:46
Can was immense coz he is slowly getting more and more into the role he is asked to play and I struggle to understand Klopp at times! Klopp not convinced about the player coz he doesn’t press enough! Why would he charge like a bull up and down! I would rather, he sit infront of the back 2 and hold his ducking line which is what we don’t do and get caught on the counter! You have signed 100 players who could run all day!
If the club signs a holding midfielder and allow can to leave on free then what is the actual logic in this?
How is Steven Nzonzi who is a big hit on this page is any different to Emre Can? Can when drives with the ball forward is second to none in PL. I have not seen an single player knocking the ball off from Can. People talk about steel in the middle! What is Emre Can then?

He is little lazy at times in getting back but that is what you teach and improve in the training!


07 Nov 2017 15:46:34
Conceed one goal in 3 games and have the best defensive 'team' performance of the season - sure, why not disrupt the CB pairing as soon as Lovren is fit again?!


07 Nov 2017 21:20:06
One thing I have noticed about Can this year is how poor he has been at presenting himself as an option when our backs have the ball. Too often he seems to assume that the CB will pass it to someone else so he is very slow to get himself into a position where they could pass it to him. For example watch the Maribor game and it should show what Im saying. For comparison watch how Milner did in this respect. This can't just be about him learning his position because this is a basic of play that every German is taught. It can be a sign of a low workrate. However he does seem much keener to present himself as an option when we are in attacking positions. I wasnt watching for this last year so have no idea if this is a recent development or not. Perhaps its a sign that his heart isn't fully in it or perhaps this is why Klopp isn't convinced by him.


06 Nov 2017 19:17:04
Not that we have any interest Ed01. If David Luis become available do you think he would be a good target for Liverpool to go for given our centre half issues or would you steer clear?

Believable0 Unbelievable2

{Ed001's Note - David Luiz is not what we need. His strengths lie in being great on the ball, his defending is not good enough for us. When he was acting as a sweeper, with two out-and-out defenders alongside him he was excellent but we do not have that.}

07 Nov 2017 06:12:01
Cheers ed01.


{Ed001's Note - I still say we should have gone all out for Christensen from them before anyone else. He had been outstanding in the Bundesliga and is a much better player than van Dijk.}

07 Nov 2017 06:46:14
Christensen looked really composed against Utd. The best of the Chelsea CBs and Conte seeme to agree now so next to impossible to sign him now.
Still think Manolas is the best attainable option out there.


07 Nov 2017 07:34:27
I agree Ed1
But wasn't he on loan from Chelsea?


{Ed001's Note - he was, yes, but he was unsure of his place at Chelsea for this season initially and there was a chance of convincing him to move for the prospect of certain football.}

07 Nov 2017 18:45:11
Christensen was very good vs Utd and has been good whenever he has played this season. I would not mind Kurt Zouma as well as he has all the tools to be a great CB BUT Chelsea simply won't sell him to us.


{Ed002's Note - if Chelsea were looking to sell why would they not sell to Liverpool?

07 Nov 2017 22:43:40
Ed02, I guess that means they are not willing to sell.


 
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