Liverpool Banter Archive November 07 2014

 

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07 Nov 2014 21:09:05
Two things that annoy me in particular about LFC this season (two out of many). First, we are very soft. Last year we we bullying teams in the middle of the pitch and our guys were first to every ball. A lot of interceptions were made as well. This year in every physical battle, in every fifty fifty, in every run to the ball with opposition defenders we lose. some of our guys - Coutinho and Allen in particular, get lost against physically strong opposition.

One of the reasons we didn't score any header or corner or from set pieces other than Gerrad's one free kick, is that in order to head goals from corners and set pieces you have to be physically stronger than the opposition and muscle yourself to the ball in the right time. But we are always been out-muscled when we go forward.

The other thing is we don't seem to have a plan when we go forward. Other teams seem to have a plan - send high balls to the big guy, let the winger run on the line and make crosses or send people to run behind the defence. We seem to always improvise. Take the ball, strat dribbling and hope that something good will happen, and everyone else just look. Last year this imoprovisation worked because we had SAS who understood each other so well. They knew where to move when one of the others two started running with the ball and also Suarez, in addition to being an amazing scorer was a fantatic passer of the ball. This year we just look lost.

I have to say the only one who is ok in terms of going forwad is Moreno - unfortunately, as a defenders he is less impressive, his slow reacting time costed us two goals already. Maybe worth trying playing him on the wing as someone suggested here?

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07 Nov 2014 18:25:29
Don't get me wrong, I love this club with a passion, but if we are going to be discussing about the present and the future we need to stop talking about what was going on 25 years ago! There is no more romance in football nor can we be criticizing teams for spending vast amounts of money. We are no longer elite, let's face it, we are trying to become again. We as fans must accept this

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Well said.

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Great post, Steph! As fans and as a club, we must let go of the self-entitlement attitude that because we are a big club (not elite), we have a God-given right to win games and sign whoever we want. That was in the past. Clubs have overtaken us while others will if we don`t stay humble and be ready to do the hard graft of making LFC elite again. We need to stop bitching about what other clubs are doing like spending crazy amounts of money because guess what? That is today`s game and worse, we ae doing exactly the same thing BUT unlike City, Utd and Chelski, we have spent our money poorly overall. We are proud of our club and it`s rich history but we need to get over that and move on. The mere fact that we have fans who have NEVER seen us win the league in their lifetime says it all, really. I love and a proud of LFC and will support players and the manager (whoever it is) till the end. But, we need to be humble and rid ourselves of this "We are Liverpool" crap some of us spout when clearly, we are no longer an elite club and currently struggling. Frankly, very few clubs are atm (RM, Barca, Bayern are the only elite clubs around, IMO).

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I agree but this is what makes this season so frustrating and BR's failure so painful. Becuase we are not of the elite groups in terms of resources we just had to take full advantage of this ubelivable year last season and make sure we use this 2nd place and the money from selling Suarez as a lavarage to stay in the top 4. ManU can afford being out of the top 4 for a season or two they will jsut pour more and more money utnil they sort it - we cannot, this is why we have to seize opportunities. A lucky season like last year comes once in a generation. You then have to grab your luck and do something to upgrade yourself. Unfortunately we downgraded ourselves.

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Agree fanobip. the last time we finished second under rafa, the next year the owners didn't back him in the transfer market and we know what happened. this year the manager was fully backed and so far it seems that he has failed. can't even begin to describe how frustrating it is, especially when playing in the champs league next is important since I think the revenue will almost be double

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I don't actually know a sigle person who thinks we're entitled to anything.
The facts are we are one of the 2 biggest clubs in England and by quite a margin however this does not mean we are the best "team" at the moment as obviously we aren't

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{Ed002's Note - So what does it mean Chris? What doors does this open? And what does the team who come third get? And why are you telling me all of this stuff?}

I just wanted to post something as I've not had much to say for a while
Obviously it doesn't mean a lot in terms of opening doors and I suppose all it really means is that our manager should remember who we are and how we should conduct ourselves both on and off the pitch

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We are a big club with a proud history. Rodgers needs to do what he is paid to do and get the team playing well and winning trophies. If not, he must be replaced.

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07 Nov 2014 17:37:26
The idea of abandoning not only the domestic game, but also the European Cup in favour of an elitist 'European League' would be derided as the money-making sham that it would be. Even if (hypothetically) the league was developed, I'd expect it to be shunned by the majority of fans and to fizzle out as owners apologise to the 50%+ of their fans which they marginalised in selling their souls for a quick buck.

I do concede, however, that an important point is that all clubs will have different attitudes to such an idea.

As a more viable solution. I expect these big clubs will organise more summer friendlies across the world to make some cash and get new sponsorship opportunities etc.

Lets take Chelsea as an example.

First, leaving England and the English league would be the death-knell for the likes of Chelsea as they currently exist.

Culturally, such a move would be seen as a total betrayal. Chelsea, the club of Stamford Bridge and Eng-er-land, turning their back on the national game! The fans invested in the culture and heritage of the club would be outraged. Rightly so, imo.

The question then is - Do Chelsea stand to gain more by abandoning the English domestic fans for a European league?

In respect to Chelsea. The idea of the ownership considering such a league isn't that far-flung. Maybe Abramovich doesn't give a crap about their heritage? After all, he is clearly in England to avail of the legal protections which his status as a British citizen gives him.

But more importantly than discussing Abramovich's personal thoughts on the matter, it simply makes more sense for Chelsea than the likes of (for example) Liverpool, as they have far fewer fans than Liverpool, who already have a massive support in a very wealthy nation (just check Chelsea's European Cup winning parade for an example of this. Not too impressive eh, not mocking btw, just making a point).

The idea of gaining greater income from creating fanbases in nations abroad could rationally seem viable to Chelsea, the same could be said for Man City tbh.

I would take the argument however, that sides such as Chelsea and Man City should not let short-termism and pursuit of a 'quick buck' ruin their potential.

Chelsea have a long history full of good and bad points, as do many clubs, but atm - and since Abramovich arrived - they have been writing a new chapter in their own history. Emerging generations of youngsters across the UK may choose/have chosen to follow Chelsea and I'd expect in 10+ years and beyond that that number can keep growing. Chelsea have a European Cup and quite a few titles.

Respect their achievements, as with those of Man Utd, or why expect ours to be respected.

But do you expect the likes of Man Utd to risk marginalising their massive, loyal (and lucrative) established fanbases by abandoning the domestic game? I hope they do! Because it would destroy them! If they did so, I guarantee they would come crawling back later, begging for forgiveness.

I'd let them back too, because again, I respect these clubs and they are part of the game we love. The same reasons why I think they should never leave in the first place.

But Real Madrid? Barca? Bayern Munich? You really expect them to turn and leave the domestic game in their home nations? And/or on the Champions League/European Cup?

No way. These are proud clubs. Proud of their heritage and run by people steeped in their culture and heritage. They'd need to have their heads checked.

As a more viable solution. I expect these big clubs will organise more summer friendlies across the world to make some cash and get new sponsorship opportunities etc. The group of big clubs will continue to lobby on rearrange dates, sponsorship, tv deals etc.

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{Ed002's Note - (a) I am not sure why you keep talking about "fans". (b) Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Manchester United and Chelsea are all supportive of these discussions. (c) The owners of Liverpool would love to get involved. But at this time they are not involved. (d) I really don't think you understand what the game is about now nor do you understand what is coming.}

07 Nov 2014 18:10:29
I don't think we should fuss over something that we as fans/consumers/audience can't control. Besides in 10 years time thanka to technology and internet streaming you would be able to watch any game happening anywhere in the world and ground attendances would continue to drop.

So one one hand you would be able to see Cristiano ronaldos and hazards of the world and on the other hand you could chose to see john Flanagan deliver a crunching tackle on anichebe. Both would be fun I guess :)

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The writing has been on the wall ever since the European Cup became the (so-called) "Champions" League.

Nothing anyone can do about it. Money talks.

Liverpool may not be in the "elite" in that world. We are too far behind, and the city is too small.

That's fine with me. We will flourish as long as we can create an academy set up like Southampton, and have smart people running the club. To me, these two things are the crux of the matter, as far as our club's future is concerned.

We tried to spend lots of money, like the big boys, just a few months ago. It hasn't worked. We are amateurs at that game.

Our role models should be Southampton combined with the All Blacks:. Recruit the best coaches, spot the best youngsters, develop a take-no-prisoners mentality and culture, and ruthlessly weed out anyone who won't run through brick walls for the club.

(Maybe ask Ritchie McCaw to charge of the club after he retires next year).

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Its a difficult decisions from a fans perspective this european super league.

from what i read regarding florentino's proposal, he wanted to have a team big enough to play in both league's (40-50 ) players, obviously that is not going to happen.

so the conundrum from the fan is.

do you want your team to be part of a break away league, making mega bucks, and possibly contending or just being a mid table team in a lucrative league.

the other option being a team like liverpool, Arsenal not being part of the super league but title contenders year in and year out, but the level of competition and the players they will attract will be abysmal.

everyone wants to play with the best and to be left with the rest will be quite discouraging.

so if the option to join the superleague does manifest itself, i don't see how the teams who have the option don't take it up.

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Has anyone at any of the clubs asked the fans are they supportive of these changes in the future. Would playing in half empty stadiums have any effect? For the life of me i cannot see many British fans not wanting to play Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool etc on a regular basis. i'm not so certain how other European clubs fans would think.

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{Ed002's Note - I am aware of consultation at four clubs, possibly five, but am not aware of it being discussed beyond one fan's forum in England.}

07 Nov 2014 17:27:19
Just back from Madrid - my first Eurpoean away game (apart from finals)
Despite the defeat the experience was awesome
Well n truly hooked
I'm really praying that we get through so I can go away with the kopite again

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07 Nov 2014 17:19:10
we need flanno back - he gives us some heart. also would rather see the likes of jordan ibe and even andre wisdom etc than some of the new guys failing. is anyone else peeved about losing LFCTV on Virgin. it is impossible to get now if u are under contract with virgin and can't switch to sky. ynwa

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Don't sweat too much, you're not missing much. HD indeed.

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07 Nov 2014 16:43:01
In response to yesterday's poll, of course gerrard should get a new contract, he is a key dressing room member, and still has tonnes to offer. He just needs to play odd games, and be an impact sub when we need a goal and hopefully when we need to defend a lead.

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As long as the new contract is a reduced one, matching his impact over the last couple of years. It would be stupid to offer him the same or more than he is currently on. I think it should only be for 1 year as well.

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07 Nov 2014 15:52:09
Goodluck to the red men tomorrow let's show the plastic flag brigade what real support is I'm going for 3-1 win.

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Well that's one more goal than what we scored in 4 out of our last 5 games.

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Reaaly don`t know where the 3 goals are going to come from BUT I`m hoping for any kind of win, TBH.

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Cant see us scoring any more than one goal, but hey, it could be the winner .

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07 Nov 2014 15:18:28
Reports this morning say three of our scouts have been sacked is this true

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{Ed002's Note - It happened on Tuesday. Yes.}

That is the price of failure.

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And there is more to come, the yanks don't mess around . but who is next .

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07 Nov 2014 15:14:14
Ed002, i have utmost respect for you as you constantly keep people informed about ongoing things in football that i am sure many people would not have heard of before reading it here. i have never come across anyone as informative as you but some people don't seem to understand.

you keep giving your unbiased opinions about everything related to football including that of liverpool but sometimes you get hated for that here. but keep giving your opinions as we love to read it.

Ed002 you said above that you speculate in a couple of years 2-3 epl teams moving to 2 tier european league. will it really happen in 2-3 years time?

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{Ed002's Note - NO, you have misread something - or I have mistyped something.}

'If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - perhaps after a couple of years with two or three teams departing for a single 18-20 team league; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well. I could also see many teams lose their professional status.'
Here in 1st sentence, i thought you were trying to say about teams leaving in a couple of years or have i misunderstood it?

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{Ed002's Note - You have misunderstood.}

2-3 teams in 10-12 years mate.

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07 Nov 2014 14:57:41
Hi Eds/Macca,
...............
Jake sutton

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{Ed002's Note - Ask me nearer the time Jake.}

Ok, cheers ed :)

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Also if you know of anyone else who I could contact regarding the same subject please could you let me know.
Thank you.
Jake

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{Ed002's Note - At the time. I will think about it.}

07 Nov 2014 14:27:26
where is the live press conference on the lfc website?it not free is it?

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07 Nov 2014 13:31:59
Ed's 001. Thankyou for replying to my post yesterday. Again much love. So the question for today is mate why doesn't Brenda go back to the three quarter press, rampaging football of last season? This possession stuff is boring me to death and results are dire. Is it an ego/philosophy thing or a does Rogers not think he has the personnel for the job?

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{Ed001's Note - both mate. He believes in the possession football and he wanted players to suit it, not the way we played last season.}

Thanks ed's 001 I appreciate your feedback. Why can't Brendan see that his philosophy is destroying any chance we have of getting top 4 this season. Also breaking hearts of fans across the world every time we play and financially hurting the club. So can someone tell me what is wrong with the football we played last season? I'm seriously confused. We are in a mess and Brendan is not the answer to fix it. Our group is not good enough even after spending ridiculous money and who is going to come in mid season and clean up this mess? Ed's 001 and EMS I owe you guys an apology when you both raised concerns about Rogers in the first few games of the season I doubted you but how wrong was I. I hope when Daniel comes back results will change and Brendan's philosophy pays dividend's. But can one man make the difference?

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My opinion is BR doesn't think we can score enough goals without Balotelli and Sturridge playing (or at least Sturridge) to make the way we played last season work.

I don't know if he's right or wrong, but what it does show to me is he has no faith in his team to score and it's hard to see how you can then expect a team to have any faith in itself when the manager has none in it.

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RDL and others, I hope you can help me understand. BR played possession footie that got us almost nowhere in his first 6 months. Then he got Couts and Studge in Jan `13 and we played 2 up for a while and we started to see some promise. Last year, we played mostly 2 up when SAS were available and almost won the league. He got the credit for getting SAS playing together, being able to adapt his formations to cause opponents` probs and for the team`s relative success hence, he won Manager of the Year. Now, he has reverted to the old, boring possession footie which is getting us nowhere again. My question is: Did he reluctantly play the open style mixed with a superb counter-attacking system with 2 up due to the players he had or has he now reverted to his "preferred" possession footie because he has no confidence in the squad that he has right now to play that fluid, attacking system? Awaiting your responses.

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That would be my thought process, yes, redohio. When Sturridge and Balotelli were both available (a small sample size, admittedly, of one game against Spurs) he played both and we coincidentally played well.

Since, he's only every played 1 up top for any length of time since I don't see how else to reconcile the differences there other than he doesn't think any combination of the 2 strikers available will work so instead we revert to the boring possession play you mention. For me, I think this breeds negativity and shows a lack of faith in the rest of the team which isn't helpful. I'd personally rather us stick with that attacking strategy and just pick the two best we have to fit there (say Balotelli and Sterling, which would be the two I would choose personally) rather than shifting to a completely different (and very boring, unsuccessful, and limited) strategy.

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RDL, I can uderstand your view. The prob is that BR has always played 1 up and SAS being available forced his hand and although that worked, I think he did it reluctantly. He might not have confidence in any of the strike combinations at the club atm HOWEVER he must know or be aware that this 'preferred" system will b the end of him if it continues to fail. Therefore, he has to roll the dice on a partnership and allow it to grow or he won`t be here. Finally, I have a feeling that even when Studge comes back, BR might still not change his tactics and play two up. Just a hunch. RDL?

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Based on Balotelli's current form, it wouldn't shock me at all to see BR play Sturridge up top by himself rather than partner him with another player.

I agree with you that 1 up is what he wants to do. Last year he tried Sturridge central, Suarez wide initially and while that worked okay Suarez tends to drift inside anyway which is why I think he just gave up and played 2 centrally as Danny certainly wouldn't have welcomed a move out wide.

Long term, I suspect he'd rather see us knocking the ball about the back 4 or 5 players for 60 minutes and winning 1-nil to playing the way we did last year and winning 4-3.

For me, I like playing 2 up top with a high press- it's very entertaining football even if it does create a weakness on the other side of the pitch which can be exploited.

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As a former striker, I totally loved playing w/ a partner because it loosens the defence and allows for gaps to run into. And you`re right that attacking football leaves the team vulnerable BUT that is the price you pay for if u want progress. As for BR and his seeming obssession w/ playing 1 up, he has to know that we were only successful last yr when we started playing SAS together. If he wants to go back to what made us boring and predictable and the results don`t follow, then he will b sacked for sure. He seems obssessed w/ possession and passing the ball sideways that the mere thought of that is sickening.

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Completely agreed with you, redohio. One up top can work if you have very progressive winger/forward types or lots of runners from midfield but for some reason I don't understand when we play with one up top we do neither of those things either really. It really is a bit inexplicable to me how BR plans to actually score with the way he's been setting things up. Release the shackles I say and let the lads do what they're pretty good at doing.

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07 Nov 2014 12:57:16
Ive just read the well detailed take on the FFP & the potential breakaway league that Ed002 has kindly done on here, very interesting & analytically put together piece, thank you for that.

I suppose the large sums, the media, irresponsible owners and the FA have really made it the beginning of the end in some ways, sad to see. A very brief question Ed002 to which i'd be greatly appreciative if you have the time to answer, what would happen to The Champions League?

Would it be totally abandoned or is that something only a crystal ball could tell us? Also, the away fans travelling to games across Europe would be somewhat of a financial struggle, do you see that being a major problem?

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{Ed002's Note - The CL would have to go. I don't see the problems with travelling around Europe being much of an issue. Is Liverpool to London much different to Liverpool to Paris, Amsterdam, Madrid?}

07 Nov 2014 13:46:46
Is Liverpool to London much different to Liverpool to Paris, Amsterdam, Madrid?
============================
hmm Yes . I drive to most games so might be living in a bubble , but I would expect travelling to Europe (places like Madrid , Munich , Roma, Milan) to be far more expensive than Liverpool to Southampton, and far less convenient

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{Ed002's Note - The bubble dwellers can go to the home games then.}

Would you see promotion/relegation from the National leagues to the Pan-European one as something that would happen or would it simply be an isolated 2 Tier sort of league?

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{Ed002's Note - No, nobody is interested in that. Once they are gone that will be the end of this.}

07 Nov 2014 16:25:47
I imagine it would change if I was travelling with big groups of football fans which affects prices Roy, but actually living in London I can get to Paris, Madrid, Munich or Rome cheaper than I can get to Newcastle or Derby on public transport.

However, it's worth pointing out that few sports involve as much away team prescience as football. Especially in America it's just not possible to follow the team around all the time, the games are too far apart geographically and too close together chronologically. We might also see changes in how we support our own teams

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07 Nov 2014 11:24:47
{Ed033's Note - Seano has written a Blog entitled Liverpool have a lot of problems
which you can comment on if you want to.

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07 Nov 2014 11:37:52
Sounds cheerful!

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07 Nov 2014 05:32:41
Ed002, Any idea why Liverpool are not involved in these "discussions" when other Clubs are ? I remember Ian Ayre making some ill judged comments over the sharing out of Premier League money a few years ago so i assumed that Liverpool were maybe chewing over some ideas over the future of football in this country. Are we just off the pace, out of the loop or just not interested ? Thanks in advance for any reply

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{Ed002's Note - It is now invitation only and Liverpool has not been invited - and in the short term will not be invited.}

07 Nov 2014 09:52:54
Why would the most successful club in English football not be invited.

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{Ed002's Note - It is nothing to do with the 1970s. Try and get over living in the past.}

07 Nov 2014 10:09:28
It's likely invite only, for clubs with very rich owners. Not huge fan base, prestige and so on.

"Try to get over living in the past" is a rather conceited comment imo. Before you slaughter me(Ed2), I realise Lfc are not among the 'Elite' and have a considerable amount of catching up to do.

My opinion remember, not the view(s) of the majority of silly Lfc fans living in the past ;)

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{Ed002's Note - It is nothing to do with the money that owners have - many of the clubs involved are those which have been consistently successful and playing in the Champions League without having to bleat about never having money to spend on players, blaming other clubs for their spending nor living on the glories of the 1970s.

The clubs meet to consider a number of issues and to provide a forum for sharing mutually beneficial opportunities. They are the clubs looking at the viability of a future pan-European breakaway and how that will work. They are interested in a new paradigm going forward. They are not interested in looking back. They are not interested in the future of the individual club but in the greater collective.

You need to get away from the "We Is Liverpool" and the expectation that it carries any weight at all. Would you let Huddersfield Town in to the Champions League because they did well in the 1920s?}

07 Nov 2014 10:10:50
We have been 😜

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07 Nov 2014 10:16:31
Personally I'd rather not be invited to these meetings.

If Liverpool transfer to a European Super League I may not morally be able to support them any more because it will be a case of the club turning it's back on the working class fans for money. I would rather remain behind in a Championship quality English Football league than be part of a club that treats it's fans like Cash Cows.

I know you'll think I'm being nostalgic etc. Ed002, but in my humble opinion there is already too much money in football and if Liverpool FC turns it's back on the average fan (can any of us really afford away games to Europe every weekend and no doubt inflated ticket prices for home games) then to be honest, I'd seriously consider supporting somebody else!

Football is the peoples game and I don't like where it is heading. Personally, I hope Liverpool aren't on the Gravy train.

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{Ed002's Note - I have sympathy EMS but change has been happening for some years. Long gone are the days of the cloth-capped, hobnailed-booted, chimney sweep making his way, rattle in hand, to cheer on his team at Anfield on a Saturday afternoon.

I hold a reasonably strong view in terms of the need to restructure football in Europe in any case. For me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grass root sports get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis. For me, clubs should already recognise this and put their efforts in to getting the infrastructure and finances in order to secure an eventual place in the top two tiers of a British professional league that will need to flourish without perhaps six sides that have gone down the pan-European route - and have gone for good. Clubs will end up being cut lose for good - look how Portsmouth, Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds have already fallen - there will come a time when there is no way back.

In other countries they welcome the change if circumstances work in their favour. Celta Vigo and Rayo Vallecano presented their dire financial circumstances back in August but resolution for them appears in the form of Spanish TV revenue being shared equally - so the departure of RM and Barcelona would not be an issue if (a) RM B and Barca B do not get it, and (b) if RM B and Barca B do not switch stadia.}

Why do you care Tommy? I'd rather stay in the Premier League (whatever it may become) and compete with Everton, Tottenham, West Ham, Southampton etc.

If the quality of players comes down and the money in the game isn't anywhere near as high, who cares? Maybe we might see the National team improve as players from the academies get more chances.

Why would you want to be in a super league that we'd constantly win nothing in?

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Give it a few years CTR! ;-)

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07 Nov 2014 10:58:09
Very insightful, thank you.

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07 Nov 2014 11:25:04
Thanks for the excellent reply Ed002. Also, thanks for understanding where a "peasant" like myself is coming from ;)

I already struggle to get to any games and have to stream games online due to Sky, BT etc hiking up their sport channel prices every year.

I can see why the top teams are going down this route (albeit a selfish route) as it will be a very entertaining league and I'm sure it'll generate billions of pounds in TV rights alone. However the top end of the sport will develop an elitist rhetoric and the people who helped make the game what it is today will be shunned for people with bigger bank accounts.

I'm not even remotely joking when I say that if this breakaway league happens, I will feel disconnected from Liverpool FC should they ride off into the sunset with Bayern Munich and Barcelona.

Do you have any idea what implications such a league could have on Uefa? The Fa? FIFA? One would assume that this breakaway league will need to be a separate football organisation as FIFA will not stand for it in my opinion. I can't see players in the new association being allowed into the World Cup! Sepp Blatter isn't exactly a forgiving person and this will suck so much money outof the rest of the game as you say. I'd hazard a guess that roughly a third of professional teams in Europe would liquidise.

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{Ed002's Note - It remains the greatest fear of UEFA and all major national authorities that one day this will happen. And it will. Sepp Blatter will be long gone by the time it happens, but the plan requires that at some point a number of clubs would break away from their national leagues and UEFA. They accept that they would be banned from all existing club competition and the players would initially be banned from all FIFA competitions as well, but they know that FIFA would be looking to negotiate in any case.

It would be the end of UEFA in all probability and UEFA are very aware of this. It would also result in a restructuring of many of the national leagues as I mentioned. The largest impact would be in England without a doubt.

The big money from television, sponsorship etc. would go with a breakaway league. It would completely rupture the operations of UEFA and I would expect it would require national associations like the FA to restructure their leagues. Nobody in England wants this but it is the eventual consequence I would expect. Other European associations typically already maintain a much smaller professional structure and will find adapting much easier.

If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - perhaps after a couple of years with two or three teams departing for a single 18-20 team league; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well. I could also see many teams lose their professional status.

I would think we are probably 10-12 years away from any significant move at this time, but efforts are being made by three or four sides to accelerate changes.

Meetings were taking place once or twice a year - always the end of August and, this year for example, the end of March. Although all participants have been invited, it will (I understand) be a smaller group that are going to in the coming weeks. There is an on-going issue (their major concern) that has been unresolved for over a year that they are trying to nail down. This is regarding capping the amount of sponsorship that will be allowed for FFP. There are several other agenda items of a less interesting nature.}

07 Nov 2014 11:25:21
I think Ed you have a point about us not being one of the elite performers and there for not being privy to the discussions .
I would however be interested in the clubs across Europe who did get invited in to those discussions .Without knowing who else was invited then how can we know if we were right to be excluded?

I do think Ed002 is right about the need to restucture football in Europe. I have to say that I take the opposite view of Ed002 and feel that more money should be taken from the elite clubs to help bolster the lower leagues .I hope rather than expect that more money is directed to community projects as a result.

I think that a percentage of all tv revenue should go to grassroots projects.By grassroots I don't mean academies that basically farm young talent for profit . I would like to see .pitches in the community built and football goals back on pitches etc.

I think this will never happen as it relies on clubs, broadcasters and governments acting in a less self serving mercenary way.

I do think that Ed002 is right in that we are heading to a pan european formula, sadly though it will mean more money taken from the ordinary people to line the pockets of the elite .

People moan about Fifa being corrupt but are uefa, premier league, Fa, clubs any different.

Footaball in the Uk is heading towards a tennis like model where is you come from a poorer background or live in a certain area you are less likeley to have the same opportunities .

Footballers now seem to be bred & farmed rather than discovered . Football whether played or watched is now a sport where if you don't have the money you are less likeley to have access.

Rant over

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{Ed002's Note - It is nothing to do with being "elite" performers. In some ways it is an extension of the old G14 club principle and many of those clubs continued separate discussions when the European Club Association was created to deal with the basic issues surrounding the running of European football - rules, youth, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Other sides are involved and over the past five years a couple have dropped out by their own volition and a couple have been eased out for reasons I don't want to get in to. Others have been invited to get involved. Some clubs have not been invited to become involved - for various reasons. But it is nothing to do with performance as such.}

07 Nov 2014 11:47:29
Personally, I'm for anything that takes the likes of Platini and Blatter away from ruling the game

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{Ed002's Note - These are simply individuals who are transient employees of UEFA and FIFA - you need to look at the much bigger picture.}

07 Nov 2014 12:57:36
Just out of interest Ed002 (and i appreciate you don't have a crystal ball!) what effect could this pan-european league have on the transfer system?

Could players easily transfer from domestic leagues into the European league? Also, in theory, this new league could make up their own set of transfer rules and potentially abolish the transfer window.

Do you have any theories on this?

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{Ed002's Note - It is too early to worry about little details.}

Shady deals done by faceless cronies behind closed doors making decisions about our game.
Don't care which clubs are involved, it's not right.
I hope a pan European breakaway happens and I hope we're not part of it, because it will fall on it's a***.
Football was a better sport before the blood thirsty billionaires came in and anything which takes them back out of our game is very welcome by me.

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Ed, you know I value your opinions highly but I'll bet you that we're no closer to a European breakaway league in 20 years time.
Also it's not living in the past to say Liverpool are a huge club. Liverpool and United are the 2 biggest clubs in England and by some margin and that's a simple undeniable fact

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{Ed002's Note - I can tell you that the funding is in place for a breakaway already Chris. There have also been discussions with the highest profile sponsor in world football, who are keen on it happening. All of the clubs are keen but no final timescale is set. It certainly won't be 20 years away. The smart money is on 2022 but 2024 or 2025 seems more likely. It will become clear in late 2017. I have no interest in any childish betting.

I am not sure where I have said anything about Liverpool being a huge club or not? How does the "hugeness" manifest itself? How is this "hugeness" measured? What doors does it open? Does this "hugeness" scare off other teams allowing Liverpool to walk away with the league each year?

Please point me to where I have ever said anything about Liverpool not being one of the two "biggest" clubs in England or, for that matter have ever gotten involved in anything about who the "biggest" are? It seems like a rather childish subject that perhaps only Liverpool supporters care for.

All of this sounds rather penile Chris - my advice is that it is not the meat it's the motion that matters.}

Just a little snippet I found on tinternet.

In April 2013 Scotland manager Gordon Strachan said that he believes the Old Firm clubs of Rangers and Celtic would join a future new 38-club two-division European Super League.

It must be happening then 😉

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It was just in response to your comment about living on the glories of the 70s and your example of Huddersfield.
The past is what defines a club and if betting isn't your thing that's ok but I say it won't happen

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Sorry let me change that slightly to I don't believe it will happen and if it does it won't last

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{Ed002's Note - It will happen Chris, nobody doubts that.}

All of the money in the game (broadcasting and sponsorships) would shift to this new league. I can't fathom how it wouldn't last unless they mucked up and didn't get the right clubs involved (which seems unlikely).

Would make quite a mess of those left behind though who would be stuck with rather larger wage bills than they would be able to afford given the new reality.

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07 Nov 2014 15:13:20
Ed002 thanks for sharing your view on this it is very interesting, which teams in the current EPL are currently in these talks? and in your opinion what teams out of the EPL would break away when if finally happens?

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{Ed002's Note - I am not going to get in to which teams would end up going in perhaps 10 years time as many things will change.}

Ed quick 1. Surely the idea of taking away seeding is being detrimental to UEFA wanting to keep its grip. Also with alcohol not allowing to be a sponsor. Does UEFA not see itself shooting its foot

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{Ed002's Note - I am not sure I get the first point. Nor the second.}

07 Nov 2014 15:28:03
EMS don't worry I'm not worried because nothing will come of it more chance of having a match on the moon.

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07 Nov 2014 15:35:07
I agree with Chris that if it happens it won't last more than a few years. Nobody is interested in watching the same teams play each other over and over again. Also these teams would have to go back to the grassroots to find younger players or buy from the so called lesser teams.

The same thing has happened with cricket in India/Asia. People are bored of the same teams playing each other over and over again. There is no variety which has led to even a cricket loving country like India moving to other sports.

Die hard fans or fans who feel a relation to the club or the city would continue to support their clubs no matter which league the clubs play in. The rest would find a different pastime entertainment.

At the end of the day it is just a form of entertainment for most people.

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Would disagree with you there, Sunny. How many people watch Liverpool v. United or Liverpool v. Chelsea every year? I'd guess a lot more than watch Liverpool v. QPR. Same with the CL which is one of the most watched competitions on the planet yet is regularly composed of pretty much the same teams year end, year out.

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07 Nov 2014 16:44:48
Just.............................

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{Ed002's Note - I don't understand why you are such a hate filled bigot? You are now trolling post after post and it will be easier if you take a break for a few days.}

2022 sounds right with this dodgy Qatar World Cup etc.
That's probably one of the drivers for it.

Let them go, let them breakaway and refuse to have promotion/relegation to and from it.
Once you remove that, it will die because you basically have no competition if you can't win the title and the majority of games would be meaningless.

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07 Nov 2014 18:00:18
RDL. What I meant was for any form of entertainment to succeed it needs to have variation or the ability to surprise its viewers which will go away once the shine goes off the league in a few years.

I am sure they will find new ways to reinvent themselves but the current format won't have many takers for sure.

And I am sorry to use the word entertainment and not sport because that is what they want it to be by taking this route

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Guess I just don't see it, Sunny. There's a lot of people in this world and whole lot of them watch/love football and a whole lot of them don't live in Europe at all, so where the games are played is irrelevant- what matters is number of viewers and how much advertisers/sponsors/broadcasters will pay for the the ability to be seen and carry the best games featuring the best players to the widest audience possible. I can understand not liking it, but it makes perfect sense to me and is simply the way of the world these days.

I can near guarantee that every EPL team owner (including ours) would absolutely jump at the opportunity to play in such a league as the alternative is not likely to be pleasant.

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08 Nov 2014 07:33:50
Ed002, It was to do with what I've read around the subject from yourself and other sites. It seems the teams around this Madrid, Barca, PSG want to play each other more rather than spank teams in their respective leagues, and to gather more money.

point 1 was about, if there's no seeding for champions league which seems to be likely going by what platini said, big teams could all face each other in group stages rather than knock outs, I would think this detrimental to UEFA trying to stop a breakaway.

Teams looking to break away will surely be looking for bigger revenues too, so UEFA banning alcoholic advertisements in champs league, surely isn't helping convince the teams to stay.


thus shooting themselves in the foot in trying to stop a breakaway

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{Ed002's Note - (1) You need to separate plans for a breakaway from anything to do with the Champions League and Plantini - they are completely unrelated. As an aside, all Platini has proposed for the Champions League is that the Champions of the highest rank leagues go in to pot 1 regardless of their club co-efficient. As it is right now the highest ranked teams go in to Pot 1. As an example, if Liverpool win the EPL this season they will go in to Pot 1 regardless of the fact that they are currently ranked 43 within Europe. Nobody discussing a breakaway is in the slightest concerned about this. (2) Advertising and revenue are a big deal to those breaking away but I do not recall any discussions at all about alcohol advertising - again I don't see this as an issue.}

07 Nov 2014 05:12:33
Good morning eds and reds, i just want to contribute to the madrid debate, personally, i was pleased with the result and performance of some of the players. I am in disagreement with those that are criticising the teams selection because in my view, if it was the first team that was played, we would not have seen the same level of performance, also they(real madrid), in my honest opinion would have scored more.i can bet that no one can give me a guarantee that the so called first teamers would put up such level of performance by the second strings, why, because nearly all of them are off form.This is the same first teamers that have been struggling for results, goals and performances in recent weeks, and that is why i urge my fellow fans to reserve judgement for the chelsea game.thanks

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In all honesty though people must be relax in football you beat the team in front of you. There is no second string side. RM won and got 3 points, they didn't get less bcoz it was a weakened liverpool side. Had we won it was going to be the same. And dare I say with the 1st teamers we were going to suffer a heavy defeat the way they are playing now. This match was one where we needed second wind, to catch our breath and I believe the team did us proud, if you don't see that then.

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Good points, guys! Our so called first teamers played the first leg and got tanked 3-0. They also played Newcastle and put in a lifeless perf. So how can we honestly justify them playing at RM when clearly, they are in crap form? In these situations, you try and light a spark in the squad and the only way to do that is to start benching or "saving" guys. The "reserves' showed that they belonged and showed desire and commitment which we have been asking for. I know a loss is a loss BUT did we really have a chance in that game regardless of selection? NO! Some might think e gave up while others think we tried something different and depending on who you believe, there was a spark that got lit within the squad w/ players like Toure, Lucas, Can, Migs, Manquillo and to some extent Borini getting good grades. In football coaching, you have to take care of yourself and do what you think is best for your team and screw the media and the pundits because in the end, it`s your ass. That is what BR is doing. You can disagree w/ what he did BUT that is the case. Now we shall see going forward if this was the right move.

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07 Nov 2014 02:51:21
Just watching press box back from last night, is that lunatic James Pearce employed by Rodgers, what pathetic rubbish he talks #pathetic joke

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06 Nov 2014 23:36:31
I think before we are trying to convince other teams and the rest of the world that we are the best team (by winning games and winning trophies), Rodgers need to believe that he's got the best team first!

He needs to prefer his squad and his youth setup over any other squad in the world.

He should also realise that we've a group of skilled footballers and if things go wrong, it's due to him being unable to utilise their skills optimally.

Really hoping to see an improvement on the mentality soon. You just can't win the titles with underdog mentality. If he doesn't want to invite pressure, then do what KD did, "We will add up the points and see where we are at the end of the season"

knightza

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