Liverpool Banter Archive January 06 2015

06 Jan 2015 22:35:40
The 08/09 home kit was quality with the little red + white chequers on the inside of the neck and all!

Had Torres on the back, had to hide it away for 3 years :'(

Sorry Eds, meant to be a reply to the favourite kit thread

{Ed001's Note - no worries mate, it happens.}

06 Jan 2015 21:53:15
BBC Website quoting Gerrard as saying he would've signed a new contract if it had been put in front of him last summer.

I still really don't know where I stand on all of this. Everything points to one of my greatest heroes being mistreated by the club. But by the same token, I don't appreciate Stevie washing dirty linen in public, and I still believe that reduced playing time is the only option for him to extend his PL career, as it has been for Giggs, Lampard, and others.

06 Jan 2015 22:54:58
Come on enough with this. He is a legend let's remember him as that.
It was about time he moved on. He isn't up for it anymore. He is not the player we know so if he did not agree with his new role it was better for him to move on.
If you ask me even though he is still a leader, as a player he is not even half of what he was, so why keep players out?

06 Jan 2015 23:17:03
I don't really know what to think about it all. I don't want Stevie to leave, but that is mostly down to sentiment in that I became a supporter of the club about 2 years before his first game, and it's difficult to imagine him not being around. The truth of the matter is, every now and again he pulls a world class performance out the bag, but this is not consistent enough. He clearly benefits from a rest, but he doesn't want that. I think the majority of us want him to stay, but in a more managed role where he is not playing every game. I'm reserving judgement on Rodgers for the time being, however it's not difficult to recognise that this season his lack of experience at this level and stubbornness are not doing us any favours, but I don't think we can blame him for Stevie going. What he has given to the club in the past, none of us will forget, but for the good of the club he needs to be benched in order to get the best out of him. He didn't want this so he has chosen to leave. For the sake of sentiment, is Brendan supposed to offer him a contract, with the Same wages and guaranteed starting place? I guess, whilst eternally grateful to Stevie for what he's given, I'm just slightly disappointed he won't go out a one club man, like Totti inevitably will. I don't blame him for making the decision he has, but you can't blame the club either. What was offered to him was appropriate for an ageing player whose form has dropped, and he didn't want to take it. Life goes on.

SG is gone and it was bound to happen someday. The if`s and but`s about it is irrelevant and NOBODY really knows the truth because NOBODY involved wants to look like a jerk hence, we will never know the truth hence, EVRYBODY MOVE ON!

Gerrard had the ear of the owners did he not? Too much power for a player if this is the case. He had to go.

Taking the massive responsibility of carrying the club through difficult times, absurd owners, difficult managers, departure of tremendous players and coping with it. Gerrard carries this in every match he has played since 2005 final . and for years he has shouldered the name of LIVERPOOL football club on his shoulders. i don't know about fans in england, but across most of asia liverpool is known by the club Steven Gerrard plays for . So this is what he offers to the club - a huge (asian atleast) fanbase and respect. there is no current player in the team that will remotely come close to what gerrard is for liverpool. i cannot believe on this forum people would say StevieG going isn't a big deal. Its a Sad Sad news for me atleast . LEGEND

07 Jan 2015 07:52:36
The quote that you're talking about is actually completely out of context. He's said he'd have signed because at that point he didn't realise he'd be moving towards becoming a squad player. So basically, he'd have been trapped and unhappy

I think Stevie has carried our team for so long, you can only do that for a certain amount of time, When we had Suarez and studge was fit then then others could carry us, but after coming so close i think mentally it impacted him so much. Let's be honest Stevie rejecting a Liverpool contract, that's the impossible. .Mentally he's not there anymore. What ever issues lie, personally we should have the players in place by now who can carry us but we know transfers in recent times haven't been the best and we still relied on him, he's 34 still top quality but he cannot do it 24/7 look at lamps at city impact sub, Gerrard would be better off used sparingly. But i think its not the fact of reduced playing time, he knows that our squad just doesn't cut it. Now i'm not blaming the players. I suspect some coaching has been at play, Minners i think suffered from rogers and his coaching staff, same with out defence. Attacking we looked okay. I just think its stupid how we don't have a few other players who grab the game by the scruff of its neck and try and win it like stevie did. Hendo puts the effort iin and i like him but he's not a stevie. Not yet, he may never be a Stevie but he can be captain. Stevie helped us against AFCW
still bags FK and pens and delivers quality balls. I want him to stay but its the state of the club keeping him away i think!

06 Jan 2015 20:06:32
Suso is going to AC Milan.

Good enough for Milan but not Liverpool.

The club is run by people !!

Milan are an average team in an average league as usual trying to take all the handouts they can (this is the team that took Torres) I'd be more shocked if a team the quality of sampdoria wanted him these days!

06 Jan 2015 21:46:48
Yuri, I will be interested to see on what basis they are taking him.

I was really excited about Suso a few years back when KK started him. My only reservations were that he was small/slight and therefore easily bullied off the ball in our league and also that he wasn't that fast.

However, at that time, I wasn't bothered as he was in his teens and had some development to go. He is now 21 and doesn't seem to have pushed on as I hoped he would. This is as much a fault of the club, but not every player who stars in the youth set up and reserves goes on to make it at top flight level. For every Gerrard, Carra, Beckham etc there's the Neil Mellors, Le Tallecs and Philip Mulrynes who don't quite make it.

Whilst I wish Suso all the best for the future, I don't think we can completely castigate the management of the club just yet.

{Ed002's Note - What do you mean by "basis". This has been known for months.}

I wonder what you would have thought of messi before his legend took off, i think he is 5'6 so size does not matter if you have the talent and that is one thing suso has is talent, in a year or 2 he might be one of the best mids in the italian league, look at couthinio, a lot of fans on here gave him loads of stick and was saying he does not score enough, that's unfair seeing he is a creative midfielder, he does try to score, but when the players in front of him don't make any runs he can't create the passes he has been doing recently because sterling has the pace forhis passes, look at the pass over his shoulder to sterling when sterling scored, but a few weeks ago loads of fans on here wanted rid of him, i'm glad we never he is going to be some player for us and once studge comes back and if we get another mobile forward then even more will come from couths, but with suso its a mistake letting him go , i may be proved wrong i may be proved right onlt time will tell

I'm very upset about this Suso situation - but I can't blame him. BR has forced him out.

I am being serious when I say he is possibly the most talented youngster I have ever seen at the club in my 20 years as fan. He can develop into a Xavi-style midfielder - or as a Silva-type attacker - he really is that good imo.

Suso has wonderful talent. I watched quite a lot of him at youth level for club and country and truly, he has vision, technique and ability beyond his years.

He did what he could - he played well when given limited chances but was always overlooked. He had a fantastic season in Spain with struggling Almeria and won great acclaim in the press there. He had a great pre-season too, impressing despite limited game-time.

BR clearly doesn't see the player I see when I watch Suso play the game - and don't think I'm just blowing my own trumpet, but I do have a good record on judging young talent. I guarantee that the Milanese will adore him.

I'll put my neck on the line and state that Suso will become one of Europe's finest midfielders, despite LFC's criminal misuse of his talents. A disgrace that he's 21 and has played so few games before being let go.

We will rue the day. Mark my words - this decision will be used as another stick to beat BR with for years to come.

Just wanted to put this on the record. No point sitting on the fence - I am genuinely gutted that this situation has been allowed to develop. Gutted.

Obviously 'people' is the web site code for the much stronger word I used.

AC Milan just an average team? Wimbledon will roast them.

I am beginning to think that next door's cat could run the team better.

I am not as emotionally involed as you Zed BUT I will say that Suso wasn`t given a real chance and worse, we bought players to take his place and those players don`t even seem to be any better than he is. BR never liked Suso for some reason and he has been hugely mismanaged as to some extent, Wisdom, Tex, and Ibe have (if either of those get sold, there will be mutiny in the club, for sure). Only time will tell.

P/S: KK did not give Suso his debut. KK gave Sterling ( vs Wigan), Flanno (vs City) and Robinson (vs Arsenal) their debuts. BR gave Suso his debut when he first arrived as he did with Wisdom. He only did that because we were tight with money and not because he believed in any of them.

Would have to agree with you, redohio. Suso spent a year on loan 'proving himself' or whatever, got pushed back farther in the pecking order due to us overbuying in positions we didn't need, finally comes back, gets to play 23 minutes, scores a goal, and is now leaving on a free. Simply brilliant.

Bizarre. Didn't sell them last year because we wanted more cash. Buy 2 players who play in his position. Play him one game- in which he does well. Pay his wages during this time and then let him leave for free.

Great business ?!. Gives head a wobble.😠
No wonder the club is a financial mess.

06 Jan 2015 18:50:42
Cull on wages, Carragher, Agger and Reina allowed to leave, Suarez sold, Gerrard allowed to leave, Sterling to be sold shortly.

Can the 'owners saved us' mob, you know who you are (Bigbadben and co) please take the floor and give us your opinion on where these owners are taking us.

Let's also not forget, Hendo touted as future captain to take us forward (nothing against the lad, right attitude, useful player etc.), but let us not forget the captains of old, Yates, Smith, Hughes, Thompson, Hansen, Souness, Whelan, Hypia, Gerrard.

Where will this end? What really concerns me is at 34 and clearly not in the best of form being poorly managed and played out of position, Gerrard is still our best player. He is still our only leader on the pitch and is the only player we have just now who can pull a rabbit out the hat.

I remember myself and Waro attracting nothing but abuse 18 months ago for having the audacity to question the owners motives. It'll be interesting to hear from those dishing it out back then what they think now.

{Ed002's Note - I have a feeling of déjà vu, but, the situation remains that the owners made poor decisions in signing up with Comolli (I told you it would end in tears from day one), Dalglish (who had been out of the game for so long) and Rodgers (who I really never saw as ready for the step up)> They are working to fix the entire footballing business from top to bottom but will need advice on some aspects. As I have said previously they had the best of intentions and want success on field and off field financially. The cost of running the club is well beyond what they expected. 2017 and you may get your wish for them to be gone Ozone, but you will not get your wish for the fans to be running the club. You could always start an AFC Liverpool?}

FSG have spent almost £350m in transfers since taking over LFC and have the Carling Cup to show for it. We have probably spent more than Chelsea since FSG took over.

They have been very good to us but never knew what they got themselves into. They have even delivered on their promise of expanding Anfield. They deserve some respect.

06 Jan 2015 19:48:49
Ozone, without malice or WUM-motives, I'm asking you pure and simple, what would you have wanted the owners to have done for you not to have this view of them? In my eyes, yes they've made a load of mistakes, as so many people have pointed out, but I don't understand where your and Waro's hatred of them comes from, other than the fact they are OOTs, and in fact OOCs.

The thing is Ed, you are indirectly supporting my grievances here. Kenny as you say had been out of the game for so long so primarily a cheap option for the owners, as was Commolli. Rodgers, again another punt on an inexperienced manager so a cheap option in comparison with experienced managers with a winning CV. Besides Suarez, the majority of players are yet again cheap punts under this resale cloak. Would Suarez have been acquired without the Torres money? The whole exercise since the day they arrived stinks of 'on the cheap' for a club of LFC's size with its global reach.

Let's face it can anyone really provide an example of when they've demonstrated true financial intent allowing them to waltz on the pitch with a prized asset taking in the appreciation from the fans?

As you've said Ed, Roman is a true football fan. He spent heavily to get the winning foundation and now he's achieved that strives to get CFC to wash its own face. In my opinion FSG should have poured equity into the club to achieve this rather than saddling debt and hedging on assets and cost
centres. They bought the club at a snippet and yet in my opinion have never demonstrated any financial intent with their own money.

{Ed002's Note - I understand your point and I suspect the owners felt that Comolli was going to provide the interface for them. I would not confuse either with being cheap at all. They knew the fans wanted Dalglish and would have taken that in to account - perhaps now a lesson learned. There was interest in Suarez before Torres was known to be leaving. The financial intent has been in the vast expenditure on players, picking up the tab for overspending at the club - but at the end of the day, they remain investors and businessmen. They were the only viable purchasers at the time - people craving the likes of DIC and Kenny Huang were deluded. You will recall I sent someone to check out Kenny Huang's office in Hong Kong - and absolute Charlatan.

They are decent owners who want the best for the club whilst keeping an eye on the investment - and the business is still worth less than the money they have put in to it.

As for the money - it was their own and now it is a mix of their own and debt as you say. It has been a money pit.

A bigger concern is what happens next. When the club is eventually sold will it be to (a) private investors, (b) institutional investors, (c) a wealthy football fan, (d) a charlatan with a leveraged buy out, (e) possibly even another business wanting to exploit the name (and this may not be far fetched) as I am aware of a couple of past examples that nearly came off.}

On transfer fees alone Fsg have not spent £350 million, Chelsea have spent considerably more but are obviously in a better position to do so. Secondly are Liverpools wages not beyond the ffp rules? Hardly a cull from what i can see!

{Ed002's Note - Wages are not such a big deal for FFP - a number of EPL sides have breaches in wages this season (e.g. Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool) but they are slap on wrist offences.}

Max, break the £350 mill down into a net figure (and don't split hairs over this as if you sell a player he needs to be replaced) and you'll probably find the owners have spent circa £25mill a year during their tenure whilst significantly endeavouring to reduce the wage bill, capitalise the wage savings and I wouldn't be surprised if the net spend on transfer activities a peppercorn. Did they honestly believe that this level of investment would bring them a title/ consistent top 4 and competitiveness in the champions league? It's just figures to them to satisfy a short term business plan to flip the club at a profit. Unfortunately for them their derisory investment hasn't yielded success on the pitch but nonetheless their accounting shrewdness will in no doubt ensure they walk away at a profit in 2017 as they've hedged very nicely.

{Ed002's Note - You cannot just scratch away at figures that suit. Add to that the near £50M agent and representative fees since they arrived, taxes, signing on fees, moving expenses ....}

06 Jan 2015 20:20:42
You're conveniently ignoring FFP again, Ozone. We are already being investigated for violating it and even if FSG wanted to drop in £200M for new signings and to support a City-sized wage bill, they can't.

No one says FSG hasn't made mistakes and Ed002 provided a good list to which I might add the transfer committee and that Chen person, but at this point I'm not sure entirely what you expect them to do? I also don't see Gerrard as our best player right now, but that's a different discussion.

06 Jan 2015 20:21:05
Ed002 do you think there will be a lot of interest from investors for the club considering the running costs.

{Ed002's Note - The reason that 2017 starts becoming a good time to sell is that the income will be higher and, therefore, the costs less.

At present those looking toward a breakaway are considering 2022 but there is a push from certain clubs for an earlier or later move. For those clubs probably not involved there will also be a surge of sales starting around 2017.}

Plus zero interest loans to the club. The most recent being £115m for the first phase of Anfield's expansion.

To suggest that they are here for their own benefit is bordering on ridiculous when it is costing them an arm and leg to keep the LFC afloat.

Fair point ed. On Liverpools wages alone then, how do they compare on previous seasons? Increasing? Or increasing but maybe not at the rate of similat PL clubs?

{Ed002's Note - It is increasing beyond that allowed by FFP - but I don't see the increase as a major concern right now.}

Maxlfc, you are deluding yourself. The £115 mill loans a cracker from FSG's perspective. Let's do the crude maths, 10,000 increase in corporate capacity so let's say £75 additional income per head on match day plus spin offs grub etc., over 25 games (league and cup) that equates to an additional £18 mill a season, capitalise that at 10% and your looking at top line figure of £180 mill; a nice investment for anyone's portfolio, 10 year payback, profit and enhanced top line.

Yes granted FSG's valuation aspirations may not be where they want it currently but a relentless drive to rid the so called big earners, resale cloak to hedge on player assets, naming right income from the ground, TV money and completed ground expansion, hey presto mega $$$$$$$ profit.

{Ed002's Note - The figures are far from correct.}

Seriously Max, you are deluded if you think they're providing LFC with an interest free loan for the fun of it. It's a 5 year loan to be paid back through dividends upon completion of the ground expansion. I've just been through the figures and depending what yield you wish to adopt, it's still a gilt edged investment with high returns. Lowering the yield provides for an increase on the capital value as the years purchase multiplier increases. In other words, UK and US interest rates will govern the yield at that time but either way it's a beauty for FSG.

06 Jan 2015 21:03:19
Ozone hates them because they're American - and wealthy

Since you mention it, curious of the thoughts of Waro/Ozone/others on whether you'd prefer Liverpool stay in a much reduced English league or chase the money and glory in the breakaway league? I suspect I know the answer, but just curious.

06 Jan 2015 21:48:43
Ozone, I have now asked the same question to you and Waro on a number of occasions and you have both consistently refused to answer it.

What would you have wanted the owners to do with the club that they haven't done?

All this bile against them, without a credible reason or alternative makes me think that Essexred has hit the nail on the head.

06 Jan 2015 21:53:08
I dislike them Essexred as in my opinion they're exploiting our club and will ultimately leave us in the hands of an institutional investor or charlatan (as Ed002 has pointed out) with a mid table squad.

{Ed002's Note - Whho would you like to see running the club Ozone (putting aside the Ozone and Waro Soccer Co Inc)?}

I would say Andy Carroll at 35 million pound is anything but cheap. Maybe we should have bought Gareth Bale at 110 million just to keep fans like Ozone happy.

Gets on my tabits even more that people on here can criticise the sugar daddies of football, and the rich oil barons and Sheiks that have potentially destroyed our game in England, then criticise FSG for bailing out our club when it was on it's knees tugging for it's last ten bob.

Athletico Madrid are a prime example and one which (like it or not) we are in a similar situation too.

First it's the manager, then it's the owners, then it's the supporters for defending the owners and the manager.

Who's to blame?

It's the moaners like Ozone who come out of the woodwork when it's all going wrong.

Rodgers was signed in his first season and they were out in packs. We finish second last season and you don't hear a squeak. Then, they're back out in force again now when things aren't going right.

You lot are like that booing
blue-nose shower.

If you want anyone to blame, blame the moaners like yourself, and don't go blaming the owners and manager who brought us a season last season which lifted us from our miserable stupor.

Zeddiscus, I want owners who are here for the long term. Owners who support LFC and who's hearts are in football. Owners who do what's needed to deliver success on the pitch and allow us to compete relatively with the top 3. I don't want stay away owners who have slithered in to exploit what they see as an opportunity to increase their capital over a 7-10 year cycle and then hang us out to dry whilst in the mean time removing everything that is LFC. I also don't want owners who impose restrictive criteria on the transfer policy so as to hedge against an asset leaving us with an unbalanced squad bereft of quality, experience and not fit for purpose.

Eds I no you have lots to do but is there any chance in the near future we can have a notify of certain posts ie this one which I find very interesting cheers

Ok Zeddicus, you only need to read my posts to determine why I'm not a fan of theirs. You tell me why you see owners who clearly have a 7-10 year plan of reducing expenditure, increasing revenue and selling at a premium whilst supporting an inexperienced 'yes' man to coach so called young emerging talent in the hope of unearthing a hidden gem for resale to perpetually fund the next batch whilst utilising an econometrics model to establish the timing of the sale. Is this a practice which will benefit the interests of the team?

06 Jan 2015 22:53:17
Davey , sorry don't mean no disrespect but you have slightly narrow view mate, sugar daddies of football, and the rich oil barons and Sheiks (starting from Jack Walker to the Glazers to Roman to Mansour) have made the PL the global rich brand that its now, where its watched by over 1 billion people, its popular because its good, competitive where we get to see a lot of the worlds best. So they have n't destroyed , quite the opposite.
And these type of sites are for people like Ozone to come and express their view, and people like you to argue with them and prove them wrong, Its better doing it here than in and around Anfield.
one last note "bailing out our club when it was on it's knees" , they bought it as an investment for a decent price, there were other bidders, 2 of which we will never know who they were.

Spot on Davey, you've indirectly supported why I'm moaning. We finish second last season so what do the owners do, cash in on the main driver of the success and spread the risk by enforcing restrictive transfer criteria on players perceived as offering resale value on lower wages to supplement their end game. Read the first post Davey and ponder over it.

{Ed002's Note - Suarez was desperate to get out of Liverpool after the owners had forced him to stay another year. If it were Borini who had lied and cheated, dragged the name of Liverpool through the mud, become embroiled in a racial incident, lost Dalglish his job and twice as a Liverpool player bitten opponents, would you be so supportive. The owners did not force any restrictive transfer policy and did not decide who the club would buy. This is simply twisting the truth and, by doing so, weakening your argument.}

06 Jan 2015 23:14:39
For guys with no football background, they have sure tried to do what they thought or were advised to, to do best. You can't really get on them too hard for that, even if mistakes have been made.

Ultimately they saved us from administration, and have at least tried to give to the club. They've put their hands in the pockets, finally we have work on the stadium ( how many years later?)

They may not be like Abramovich, and there are few that are. I'd probably bet when he first came in splashing cash everywhere you were bemoaning him, claiming he was ruining football.

There are far worse owners we could have than FSG, and surely you can see they are at least trying.

07 Jan 2015 00:04:29
Ozone, how can you criticise them for wanting to increase revenue? That's what the club needs to do to compete under Financial Fair Play.

Eds I no you have lots to do but is there any chance in the near future we can have a notify of certain posts ie this one which I find very interesting cheers

{Ed033's Note - yes, it's coming

07 Jan 2015 05:38:51
Ozone, Zeddicus asked you a good question, what would you have done differently if you were sitting in Tom's chair?
I am not a fan of the owners, because I think they have been naive, from day one they needed to hire someone high up who knows about the pl, probably now the penny dropped, Ed002 listed the numerous mistakes they made and a naive owner is as bad as an exploiter (as you put it), because the end game can be just as disastrous for the club.

07 Jan 2015 05:40:01
No I'm not saying I support Suarez here Ed002, I'm just trying to raise a point more so to illustrate what was done with the funds. If the owners don't restrict the transfer policy then why is there a financial adviser on the committee?

Why didn't the owners sanction Di Maria for example as a target for Suarez replacement? If your pipped at the post in the final game of the season for the title, you must have a good team sprinkled with quality in the right place. We needed similar quality in Suarez replacement, a full back and decent attacking mid, the rest could've been made up from the academy. Instead we get Lambert, recall Borini and take a calculated gamble on Mario, together with a host of unnecessary punts on supposed hidden gems.

This is after watching Spurs lay down a marker for such a cock up the season before. The owners and Rodgers should've used last season as a foundation but instead we've seen, in my opinion, the transfer policy, scupper that progress. For me it's exposed FSG for what they are. The sale of Sterling in the summer will only serve to illustrate this further.

{Ed002's Note - All clubs have a financial input on transfers. Liverpool were never interested in Di Maria. This is paranoia.}

07 Jan 2015 05:40:19
Ed002, why was people craving DIC deluded? I thought they were realistic and able buyers who almost had the deal done on more than one occasion. Do you see DIC as possible future owners of LFC?

{Ed002's Note - DIC were never a viable buyer and will never own Liverpool. Liverpool could potentially have gone out of business if they were purchased by DIC as the purchase was to be based on 100% debt with a view to building the asset and then selling after 5-7 years.

The viable buyer was the Kraft family.}

Good afternoon Ozone, and a Happy New Year to you. I have resisted getting drawn into your digs in recent months, but seeing as you name checked me, I thought it only fair to give you a reply:
When you previously launched into rants about the owners, you paid no attention to differing views, instead lumping anyone who disagreed as 'sheep' or 'lemmings', or 'blind'. Now I see you have put me in one of your categories as one of the 'owners saved us mob'.
If you go and have a proper read of replies I have given you on here previously, you will note that I have stated on more than one occasion that the owners and BR have made mistakes and would continue to do so, and may or may not eventually succeed. I also (along with endless other posters) tried to point out that your obsession with hedge funds ignored the basic fact that the owners crave success as much as we do. It may be for financial gain rather than simple glory, but quite frankly does it matter? I'm not sure who it is you crave as owners but if you could share it with us, and explain exactly how they would pump money into the club whilst ignoring FFP and the fact that the club is still spending beyond its means, then I'm sure it would be much clearer for a simple soul like me.

07 Jan 2015 16:34:56
Ozone, firstly thanks for the reply. I do catch most of your posts, and Waro's, hence my question as the majority of your posts seem to be anti-FSG on the basis that they are not local football people, but instead foreign business people who invest in sports teams, amongst other things.

I share Ben's view that they do certainly seem to crave success for the team, albeit they may be more financially motivated than passion motivated as most fans are.

You have asserted that they picked up Liverpool for a song. That's as may be, but they DID buy us when we were, if reports are to be believed, very close to going out of business. And if it was for such a song, why wasn't there a queue of others lining up to buy us cheap and flip us for a vast profit?

The accounts back up the fact that the owners are propping up the club on a daily basis. The trimming of high earners etc is necessary for the financial vaibility of the club. Gone are the days when a multi-billionaire can pour money into clubs to buy championships due to FFP and its ramifications.

As to they type of players they have invested in, I am not going to defend them here. I believe they should have got someone who knew what they were doing (which according to the Eds they thought they had done in Commoli) so that we did not spend money on the wrong players. They have made mistakes, without a doubt.

However, every example you pull out as to why they are bad owners can be spun either way. You, and Waro, choose to spin everything in a negative way against them. That just frustrates me, and a large number of other fans, as it comes across as a predominantly baseless vendetta. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt once in a while, especially as commentators who are closer to the club than you or I (namely Eds 1 & 2) are predominantly supportive of what the owners are trying to do?

06 Jan 2015 16:53:59
I know Gerrard has been the talk of this site for the last week, but I have a question for the Eds. Does Gerrard get on with Rodgers as much as is suggested in his interviews. I think Steven mentioned something like if Rodgers had managed him 10 years earlier, they would have many trophies. Is this just him being media friendly?

Thanks in advance.

{Ed002's Note - If you are suggesting that there is anything inappropriate between them then I would think not.}

On a more important note! What about Rodger's tan? Sunbeds or spray on?

{Ed002's Note - This very matter was dealt with earlier on Twitter by #WonderDogSparky.}

06 Jan 2015 18:01:08
You wicked wicked man Ed002, I shuold've guessed who is Elnoseo
Hows the window cleaning business Irish?

Oddly enough Roy, i do run a commercial window cleaning business! How weird is that?

{Ed002's Note - Sparky says that you do a sparking job every time.}

06 Jan 2015 16:04:39
BBC sport confirming that Stevie will sign for LA Galaxy earning £6m over an 18 month contract.

I'll miss you Stevie.

06 Jan 2015 15:39:29
Hi eds.

Could you please explain to me what's wrong with the youth system at our club? And what BR is doing wrong with regards to the young players? How would you change it etc?

Thanks a lot mate.

{Ed002's Note - There is nothing wrong with the youth system. The academy was reworked this summer. It is nothing to do with BR.}

What i meant was, since the likes of suso, ilori, ibe wisdom is loan out and shown no respect with regards to theire careers.
Why is that? And I've seen many a times that its Rodgers poor performance with the youth and so on.
Could you please explain, if you have any insight on the matter that is.

Thanks

{Ed002's Note - Aside from Suso, the club had too many players for the first team squad and resolve this be sending them on loan (with a number of other players - youth or otherwise). Suso is a different matter. This has all been dealt with before - try searching for KNEE JERK.}

Thanks ed. :-)

06 Jan 2015 14:45:15
A very long shot this, But as for a goalkeeper coming in I would be in favour of going for hugo Loris from Spurs, he's the type of sweeper keeper that would suit us, could be avaliable in the summer according to media outlets, but I would expect him to want CL and be out of our price range.

06 Jan 2015 15:51:25
I know Levy would try to shaft us and we will probably end up paying the thick wedge of £25m, but I do believe he could be our keeper for years to come given his style. If we ended up getting 7+ good years out of him! and he provide the stability to our defence! wouldn't it be well worth the fee and more?

{Ed002's Note - I don't suppose Levy gives two hoots about Liverpool. Where would Liverpool get that money from?}

We should have tried for him at the end of last season when it would have been even slightly realistic

06 Jan 2015 17:13:49
Dream on, Levy would want £40M at least. The guy is class.

06 Jan 2015 17:32:09
Ed002, sorry, you're right. It's not just us, Levy would try to extract every cent out of a player transfer to a directly competing club.

Where would we get that sort of money from? I'm not sure as I'm not privy to the finances, however i'd much prefer we spent more on fewer players, and I'm sure we will end up spending at least £25m on incomings in this/the next window. I imagine it may be funded by player sales, but that's only guesswork.

{Ed002's Note - Right, which is his job. If Sterling were to be sold would you rather Mr Ayre accept the first £15M bid or negotiate a £31.43M deal?}

06 Jan 2015 20:20:27
Ed002, apologies as I don't seem to have made my point particularly well. My meaning was that as Spurs are a direct competitor of ours, extracting one of their first team players from them would be a lot more difficult and costly than if buying from a non-direct competitor. Numerous examples abound in every league. You would always prefer to sell your best players abroad rather than at home as by selling them to a direct competitor you are having a double impact on your teams future performance - you gettign weaker (which would've happened anyway) but your competitor getting stronger.

To the Sterling point, I would expect Ayre to get more for Sterling if he was selling to City or Chelsea than if he was selling to Bayern, for example. Not £15m vs £31m more, maybe, but certainly more.

Levy would no doubt do the same. I imagine Bale would've cost United more than he cost Real Madrid.

{Ed002's Note - This is one of those myths that supporters use as an excuse. There are numerous examples of players moving between clubs like Chelsea - Liverpool - Spurs - Arsenal. Ziege, Keane, Benayoun, Torres ....}

06 Jan 2015 12:51:34
Whats happening with Shaqiri as SSN say Liverpool want him but not until the summer and are happy for him to go on a 6 month loan to Inter to get more playing time ?

Does this mean Liverpool have given Bayern assurances that they will buy him in the summer hence the potential loan move to Inter ?

{Ed002's Note - I suspect something has gotten lost in translation.}

If liverpool are interested in shaqiri then they do need to get him now we haven't got a right mid. Hendo isn't the answer & last night proved that so much better through the middle and then the team is complete for positions even though some players do need to go & be replaced

06 Jan 2015 12:42:04
the only area I would like LFC to strengthen in Jan would be for us to get a proper GK if the right one is available, we have seen over the last couple of transfer windows that buying just for the sake of it doesn't help unless the right player for that position is available,

too many new faces affect the make up of the team, we should try to go for some sort of consistency for the remainder of the season hopefully with a lot less injuries

06 Jan 2015 12:32:04
Hi all, prob done a million times but would anyone like to share what their fav kits have been ?, just seen the section on official website, and had no idea we had the black socks at one stage .

The gold one from 94 for me. Still remember my mum burning the fowler 23 on the back. God knows why she was ironing it!!!

{Ed002's Note - Was he still in it?}

The Crown Paints one is my favourite, though I like the Hitachi one as well.

06 Jan 2015 14:28:14
Remember that one , had it too, think I had Babb on it, ( I know ) 95-96 home had to be my fav home kit,

For Sentiment I like the 89-90 kits too, but as a looker the away teal 08/09 was tasty, reminds me more of Keane than Torres though, always loved our 90 s silver kit. ( They remind me of Glenn Hysen)

It was the 3rd kit I think 94-96. I am definitely sure it was the one I had him on the back Ed.

06 Jan 2015 15:11:41
A pic Ed of one so yeah he was

Fowler number 23 top
http://tinyurl.com/lthk4zp

{Ed002's Note - I rather think you missed the point there.}

I liked the 98/99 3rd kit

I do now derrrr. Been a long day on earlies and trying to keep a toddler amused all afternoon.

So please forgive me for not getting your humour initially 😊

I think my favourite kit was the Carlsburg Green kit with the 3 diagonal strips. I just love Green ^_^

White and green third kit from 2006/07 or 2007/08 i can't remember, think it was the one where bellamy scored at the nou camp?

06 Jan 2015 16:07:36
I was a fan of last season's black kit

06 Jan 2015 16:11:54
so should we have a defined away kit colour or not ?? In my mind i associate the all yellow or silver kits as classic away, also the white top black shorts combo .

06 Jan 2015 16:39:22
That's green Carlsberg Adidas kit was indeed immense. Had McManaman 17 on mine

06 Jan 2015 11:29:46
Hi Everyone, I haven't posted in some time, but last night was unbearable,
I really am one of those people that think BR is not the man for the Job but come on, is it his fault when Mignolet leaves his line all the wrong momments and cannot catch a football?

yes BR agreed to Mignolet being bought, but my blackberry seemed to be the best thing ever up until it stopped working a month after the warranty expired, do you blame me for buying it or the phone for being crap??

I'd have to blame you for buying a blackberry mate. All gadjets named after fruit are a bit dodgy ;)

06 Jan 2015 13:27:41
Its a good analogy scousebloodred, let me counter your point . Before you bought your blackberry a little research (scouts and performance analysis) would've told you its middle of the range phone the battery goes wrong after a year,and the buttons break after a while, if you wanted something better then you should've spent more and bought something more reliable. But you already bought it, and you can't afford a better replacement (no point of buying another blackberry that you will need to replace next year now is there?), so what do you do? Fix it, work on it, make sure the surrounding around it is better (improve defence), don't drop it in water or fire and expect it to perform better afterwards, fill it with confidence, give it love and care, it may just may works better, after all you have no better alternative.

The only alternative is a sledgehammer when it comes to Blackberry phones. However, I'm not sure that would work with a footballer, no matter how much some people would love too.

06 Jan 2015 10:15:09
Morning Eds,

Quick question!
As a fan of the academy and the idea of bringing through players for the first team (or at least giving them a run in the team to see if they can progress), would you say that with BR failing to do this, and with the chance that he will be leaving, will the owners be looking for a replacement that has proven to bring players through from the academy?

Thanks!

{Ed001's Note - yes, he was brought in with a remit to do just that.}

06 Jan 2015 09:20:30
Reading some posts down the page praising Sakho but making no reference to the opposition yet Stevie plays well and basically pulls us out of the s**t AGAIN, and the implication is that that's his level now. I used to think Ed002 just hated Liverpool fans and couldn't stay objective, but I can see were he's coming from now, we have some of the worst supporters in England and i never thought i'd say that, some of you make geordies look reasoned and balanced.

If I'm honest I don't think this site represents the views of the majority of fans. Don't get yourself too wound up mate.

Red Rum

06 Jan 2015 10:01:46
Is this coming from the same Waro that refuses to back the owners and certain players (Henderson and Lucas)? Hmmmm

Lol. When I saw Waro wrote this I burst out laughing. He's the worst 'fan' on this site. lol.

TCotton, what have the owners done for me to back them? I have very strong opinions on them that are well documented on here, I'm not like supporters such as yourself who are lemmings and go along with what there told like a good little boy, if we all supported the club like you Hicks and Gillette would still be here! So how that equates to my post about Gerrard is quite frankly baffling.

I don't rate Lucas never have and there's quite a few others as well I don't rate ( will list if you want me to so as to avoid confusion in future ala your Hendo shout, ) but when there in the team I support any player without equivocation.

Henderson is just a figment of your imagination because I have never said a bad word about him and have always been a firm supporter of his even when he was in and out of the team and actually defended the kid when some my mates said he wasn't good enough.

Hope that answers your retort son. ;-)

ZinedineKilbane, firstly I'm not sure who you support because you do realise your name is what Evertonians used to call Kevin Kilbane don't you? are you a closet twisted?

Secondly, it's funny you should say you laughed when you read my post because that's exactly what I did when I read your posts during the game last night, you flipped your opinion more than a maccies worker flips burgers, sub him oh er no wait he's just scored er no he's great sub that other fella er great piece of skill er no leave him on, the side I picked would have won 5-0, haha, your more confused than Scooby Doo son, haha. Bet your a legend in your own head on Fifa.

06 Jan 2015 12:27:28
Bottom line is that Liverpool were so unconvincing in that match that it took a wreck of a once great player to win it.

06 Jan 2015 14:05:36
My apologies Waro, I meant to say Borini, not Henderson. I will admit fault there.

My point is that you're the least supportive fan I have seen on here. You constantly slate the owners who have invested a very large sum of money in the club and effectively saved us from being the next Leeds. They aren't the best owners but they are head and shoulders above H&G whom I did not back, they tore this club apart.

The fact you don't rate Lucas says it all. You don't have a clue "son".

Credit where it's due though, your response to ZinedineKilbane did make me laugh.

{Ed002's Note - You are missing the point that Waro's issue is effectively with the owners and whilst we disagree on that I understand his point. The issue the is running through the fans is this fickleness that sees them demanding Gerrard out last week and then wanting him to stay after he announces he is leaving. Gerrard is a fine player and has been great for Liverpool - but time comes and he wants to move on.}

06 Jan 2015 14:23:47
I didn't comment on that because I actually agree with Waro. I hate reading the "get him out" posts one day then "he's our saviour" the next.

My original post was essentially suggesting that I couldn't believe Waro (one of the more negative fans) was complaining about others. It was meant in relative good humour considering Waro is renowned for rarely having a good word to say about anything to do with Liverpool (I'm not suggesting that's always the case).

In terms of the discussion moving on to the owners, I feel it's only natural to diverge to various topics, sorry if you disagree.

Just for the record - I think Gerrard has been a fantastic player for the club, one of the best in our history. However, I think it is the right time for him to move on for everyone. I am of the belief that he could have done a job for us next year if he'd been used correctly but I don't think it's the worst thing to happen for the club.

Hi Waro.

Your response is ridiculous - I never contradicted myself once during the game. I would have changed the system exactly as stated and one of Gerrard or Coutinho would have been taken off at half-time.

Having already used two subs at half-time, given Gerrard's tired legs and based on the overall first half performances by the two players - Coutinho would have edged it.

Purely tactical. Explained by me at the time. Yet you seemingly can't keep up.

I also love that you don't have the courage to say what you think during the game. You're just a revisionist after the event.

I find it funny that you seem to think hanging on to win 2-1 against a L2 side is some kind of achievement. As if the team BR stuck with was good. So small-minded.

Also, my choice of name was tongue-in-cheek. I was being ironic. I thought it might amuse the witty amongst us. Unsurprisingly, it went over your head.

Also - as was pointed out by myself and many others. Every game SG plays well as an attacking midfielder only validates the opinions of myself and others on SG.

A great att mid player turned into an awful DM player by BR - so go rant at him. He's the reason your beloved Gerrard will be leaving.

Finally. Your comments on Lucas expose your simple views even further btw. We'd be screwed without him this season - despite BR's best attempts to drive him out.
I don't play Fifa either btw.

You're welcome.

06 Jan 2015 08:03:11
Aside from yesterdays game - I'm interested to see what people think about Stevie G's comments recently regarding BR.

There is much negativity on this site about BR, yet Stevie said

"I wish I'd met Brendan when I was 24 because I think I'd be sitting here talking about a lot of titles that we'd won together, " he said.

"Brendan came into this club when I was 32 years of age and it's a shame that relationship didn't start 10 years ago."

Clearly he rates him highly . thoughts ?

{Ed001's Note - you mean comments made to the club's official website about his current boss were complimentary? Who would have thought it?}

I'll Wait for Gerrards book, lol

He spoke in a way that he believes Rogers can win us leagues I don't think he was forced and he could have said something nice with out saying he would have won leagues ed

Gerrard also said Glen Johnson is the best right-back he's ever played with.

An all-round brainiac, eh.

06 Jan 2015 13:37:20
Well he is hardly likely to say - I'm off, Brendan is clueless, so good luck to you as you are really going to need it!

Didn't Gerrard also say "I've seen Joe Cole do things Messi does"

Not having ago, just saying he comes across ass not exactly being the best judge of talent :p

I'd love for Gerrard to become an ambassador or something for the club once he hangs up his boots.

I'd rather that than a coach, simply because his pulling power commercially will still be huge, not only that, I just don't think he'd be that effective as a coach or manager. Carragher however is a different story, he should still be involved in football on a coaching level of some sort, the guy is just a football brain with legs.

{Ed002's Note - Joe Cole has always and continues to do things Messi does. Gerrard was correct.}

06 Jan 2015 05:47:39
Cheers Dave. Would it be possible to name the abusive posters Ed002 then put deleted next to the abusive posters name. Thanks. Oh yes well in Stevie, class yet again, didn't see any players there tonight who will step up and fill the void. I'm sure the statisticians will get the opta manual out to try and disprove this post.

{Ed002's Note - No Waro.}

This is only a question Waro, what will you do next season when Gerrard has left, will it be constant reminiscing about how much better we would be if we had kept him or will you let it go and get behind the players who have stayed?
I understand you are still trying to prove a point but the guy has decided to leave, he could have done like Lampard and accepted a new role which could have been great for the club to have him as an impact player. Let's be honest Lampard is doing a really great job at City but Gerrard has decided not to stay with the club. He could have went to the states after trying one more season in the new role and still made a fortune.

Mcgoveb, I'm merely pointing out the complete lack of loyalty shown by quite a number of so called Reds ( although why I'm surprised after the way Kenny was treated is beyond me, ) the man carried us for 10 years and I do mean carried us and because of age he is now not the same player, still a very good player IMO, I agree his levels have dropped by quite a way but he's still our best midfielder and he's being judged on the Gerrard of 6 7 years ago, so where are the class players who will step up and take over the mantle? You know the fantastic players who Gerrard has been holding back because he has to much power at the club and basically picks himself?

The word Judas comes to mind with some of them, because the new breed of Liverpool fan shows zero loyalty and all there interested in is stats and overreacting to a new player coming in putting in half a dozen decent performances telling everyone that will listen how good that player will become and how they had " watched him play for so and so " and always said he's just the player we need, then when the same player turns out to be yet another ordinary buy and can't get a game they would rather turn on a club legend then admit they were wrong about the next Xavi or the next Zidane or the next iniesta that they've bigged up after having the player in there team on fifa.

I personally won't mention Stevie next season unless someone slags him off or I'm asked by a poster about him for whatever reason. With me when someone deserves loyalty then they get it, unswerving loyalty!

{Ed001's Note - sorry Waro, but loyalty is not what is needed. Paisley won things because he was ruthless, loyalty is a hindrance. Gerrard needs to go because it is time for him to move on, partly, I agree, because he is being judged by what he could do and not by what he does. But loyalty is irrelevant. Fans have always been ready to forget their past heroes for the present and future ones and that is a good thing. Otherwise we would constantly have people harping after Rafa and Torres at every possible moment. Oh wait.....

Seriously though, there comes a time when you have to accept that a new man has to replace the former hero mate. Just like when Dalglish, Heighway etc left. It was holding on too long to players like Barnes that cost us badly in the past.}

Watching an over weight Barnes on the wing was tragic, seeing rush trying in vain to keep up with fowler. Even Jan Molby jokes about his time at Liverpool, that Souey used to say Molby was the only man who could put on weight during the match.

I can't say I lived through the paisley years, I can only go off reading the history, but as ed01 says he seemed ruthless. You only need to look at Alex Ferguson with Phil Neville, Beckham, Butt.

I don't mean loyalty so play him until he's 50 ed001, I mean loyalty for the man, you must have read some of the disrespectful things written about him and Kenny on here better than anyone!

You say we must accept the new man who replaces the former hero, of course we must I agree 100% but at this precise moment in time who is that? That's my point, he's been criticised for the last 2 years based purely on past performance yet some of the dross playing along side him is constantly praised as showing great potential that Gerrard is holding back.

Say why you think it's time he was moved on because so and so are looking far better than him and making killer passes and driving the team forward and scoring match winning goals, don't be disrespectful to a living legend is what I'm getting at.

Next season we will have a team full of kids who don't have the drive and leadership ability's of a Gerrard Keane or a Viera and it will show you can bet your last pound on that!

Hendo 24 roughly 200 games
Studge 25, 150 games
Coutinho 22, 120 games
Lallana 26 250 games
Sakho 24 175 games
Lovren 25 200 games

These are not kids

Agree 100% with Ed001, I just posted above on Agger along the same lines.

We need to be able to move forward with great memories of the wonderful players rather than clinging on to their shadows.

On Torres, I hope he does fantastically well. I have enough cop on to realise that this is highly unlikely and I'm damn glad we haven't gone near him.

06 Jan 2015 05:27:24
Well we had about as much penetration as a digitless eunuch but we have somehow gotten through. The magic of the cup, the pitch, the hyped up opposition, the crowd etc etc. Anything but us being poor. Sakho was good and I loved watching the big lad upfront Akinfenwa especially when he did his "whirly turn" he played with a smile like an inflated Dwight yorke. Good game.

{Ed001's Note - good to see the lad score as well, he is a big Liverpool fan and would have loved that.}

06 Jan 2015 07:34:41
Ed01, He is a massive Gerrard fan and would have swapped his shirt.

{Ed001's Note - it wouldn't fit him, and his shirt would be a tent for Gerrard!}

Size of him.
It reminded me of a quote from a film I loved in the 80's called "Wildcats".
It had Woody Harellson and Wesley Snipes in it about an American Football team.
The quote "How did your folks let you get like this?". "He probably ate his folks."
Same applies for Akinfenwa.

06 Jan 2015 10:28:37
Happy for him and imagine it was a dream come true for him. Still couldn't stop laughing at the fact coutinho and akinfenwa actually play the same sport though!

06 Jan 2015 00:16:11
Micah Richards?

On a free in summer.

He has been injured forever and would command huge wages, what is the point?

06 Jan 2015 03:58:03
A RB??

{Ed001's Note - yeah, it is not like we don't already have enough of those.....}

@Tangent/Ed001, exactly but it wouldn't surprise me if Rodgers decided it would be worth a punt and he could pay Atletico Madrid to take back Manquillo and then he could loan out both Wisdom and McLaughlin. Wisdom's contract would run down and either he'd then go to another PL club for free or cheap. With two out and 'only' Richards in Rodgers would have to get another RB, sorry 3 out with Glen Johnson so maybe he would have to sign Richards plus 3-4 more RBs to be sure to be sure. And still none of them as good as Wisdom.

05 Jan 2015 22:46:03
I know your not going to post this .................

{Ed002's Note - The message was fine. Why start it like that?}

Good lord. Is this for real. Please get a real editor ed001.

Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - seriously? If you start off the post with such a knob of an attitude it gets deleted. Your comment was just as bad, grow up. You are lucky I don't just block you for being an arse. I would have done exactly the same as Ed002 and I would expect every editor to do so, that is why you aren't one, you don't have a clue what it entails, but it doesn't entail pandering to every knob trying to be an arse.}