Liverpool Banter Archive December 06 2011
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06 Dec 2011 23:39:22
Another player i think could do a good job for us is the lad Faurlin that plays for QPR!
Ls 7 -_-
No way!we bought players like adam,enrique,downing and we are 7th in the league.we need young players like hazard,m'vila,g ramirez,gotze...i think henderson is our best transfer.anyone agree?
Marius.
I think we should get taarabt
I think you should wake up and smell the coffee , what world class player is going to want to go to liverpool for maybe a chance of playing europa league footie once in a blue moon , Get used to the fact that you are no longer a title challenging / Champs league team anymore , end of this season the queen will be gone so will the buck tooth assasin and your half decent keeper , stop living in the past !
06 Dec 2011 23:30:22
Christmas, the only time Liverpool like to hear Carrolls playing.
KT!
Disclaimer: I am not a Carroll hater.
Cracker!
MM
06 Dec 2011 22:50:27
Seriously, EVERYONE get of Andy Carrolls back! He is a Liverpool player so we, as fans, shall support him. You aren't a true fan if you don't support ALL of the players. He is still a young lad and moving from a club you have spent all your life at to a much bigger club in a different part of the country must be hard, yet alone making the move and having most of the fans abusing him! It's not often that a young 6ft3 powerhouse comes along who has bags of potential, so we should count ourselves lucky to have him! He adds a whole new dimension to our game. Give the lad some support and judge him in a years time. Let him settle in for goodness sake!
(C)
Lucky to have him? He cost 35 million. You can't dispute that. We could have had just about any striker we want but we went for the no-footed, weak, clueless and clumsy donkey that rarely shows signs that he can be good in the future. We don't have a years time. We need to get into the Champions League and to do that we need to drop the people who aren't performing. He isn't and we were looking very likely to get into the top 4 without him being in the team.
bast99 {Ed001's Note - but we couldn't get any other striker, we were trying and the only one available was Carroll, so no we couldn't have had nearly any other striker at all.}
Well ed we should have kept ngog and our money until the summer and if that was to mean getting 10 million less on the torres deal then so be it. We could have got sturrage if we wanted but no kenny and comolli panicked and we bought a dud. He will never suit the pass and move system kenny wants to play. Kenny needs to realise this because its costing us an awful lot of points. Surely morgan would do better. I love kenny but im not happy with him right now.
kopfiend 1978 ynwa
Ed001, I was meant to say in the summer. Carroll was injured throughout most of that season and I believe only managed to play 8 games in 10-11. {Ed001's Note - but the club couldn't afford to wait.}
Sturridge was never coming. he said so himself, chelsea werent gonna let him go
NZL_red
Why couldn't we afford to wait? Wasn't last season a write off, or was it Kenny thinking he needs him because he will enhance his chances of getting the job full time? Which he would of getting anyway. I'd love if Carroll started banging um in, it would be great but at the moment we're not setting up to suit his game and in fairness to Carroll the delivery into him hasn't been great.
I disagree. Are you telling me you stood there and supported Traore, Cheyrou Sean Dundee.....? Just because he costed $35m doesnt mean you have to support him. We made a mistake a costly one and now we have to live with it. The only thing I want from Carroll is for him to work his nuts off and he blatantly doesnt. His lack of skill should be substituted by work and sadly Carrol has nothing to provide us so to me he should be left in the reserves.
S
S
Of course we supported them players, you know, because they played for Liverpool the team i support.
If Liverpool decided to play a goalkeeper with no hands i'd still support the player.
KT!
SUPPORTer.
FFS you lot... Stop talking about this retrospective.. Done is done - get behind the bloke. LFCs number 9..
red snake
Look we made a huge mistake signing carroll he is just not good enough. and never will be. just bite the bullet and get rid
Look we made a huge mistake signing carroll he is just not good enough. and never will be. just bite the bullet and get rid
06 Dec 2011 22:35:10
By reading maccas post its not looking good for Stevie g then. Was it the real macca eds?
Mighty reds
06 Dec 2011 22:34:22
So it looks like Stevie G may be out a bit/while longer than Jan, which is a real shame. I really hope he gets fit and plays as many games as possible for us before he hangs his boots up as I'd hate to see such a fantastic player on the sidelines and not being involved as often as he should.
Forget the defeats and Carroll & the team bashing, this could be the worst news we hear all season.
Good luck Gerrard lad, hope you get back to fitness.
Ultra red
06 Dec 2011 22:33:44
Really worried about stevie. Posted a link about an irish rugby player with identical condition. Once the infection is let undetected for a long time it seems to do long term damage and compromise the immune system permanently.
It involves constant drips and medication. Any comebacks are ruined by the slightest knocks.
id love to think maybe medicine has moved on but the rugby player just retired this year after 4 years fighting this condition he got it when he was 27.
After stevies operation the groin was infected and allowed to manifest while he recovered. Now his body has accepted it as a normal reading and wont fight it without a drip antibiotics.
Think we need a replacement January and just hope it hasnt gone past the point of no return.
PLZ post this on the rumor page.
I will be truly devestated if Stevie has to retire due to an injury like this. I have said for a while thought that he won't ever be the player he was of 3 or 4 years back, but it would be nice to get another season or two from him in some capacity.
Ash
This is bullcrap. My dads friend had the exact same problem about two or three years ago and he continued to play football and he was only out for 1 week with another week to get properly fit again. I don't believe the ankle infection is the only problem.
bast99
Hopefully SG will be back asap.
It does sound more of a immune defiency, and in the weakened/compromised state the body is not capable to repel infection and disease.
I pray for SG's speedy recovery!.
Food for thought.
What the lad is saying on the rugby player isn't bull crap, your dads friend was lucky to get back from this injury don't mean everyone else will.
06 Dec 2011 22:23:12
Luis is getting no protection from referees he gets kicked till he's black and blue and then the FA charge him with an offensive gesture. It's not paranoia they really are out to get him. Is it a coincidence that referees have offered less protection and the FA have come down hard on him since Ferguson's comments? I think not
TBH As much as I think Suarez is a great player I'm getting a little tired and frankly embarrased at the play acting. Fans should remember he is representing LIVERPOOL when dives, complains, sticks the finger up at the crowd, and throws tantrums when substituted. He could still be banned for the Evra incident. He doesnt get singled out he just isn't used to not getting his own way. I was made up when the ref told him to stay on his feet on monday. I remember years ago apparently Roy keane told Ronaldo to stop embarissing himself and the club by rolling around like a p****. and he did stop. We need something similar come on carra, Kenny have a word...
Dave
06 Dec 2011 22:17:54
Comparing suarez and bellamy with andy carroll, they both make our team play good football where as watching andy carroll falling all over the place, cant get 1 header, cant control, no pace. its not his fault but he just isnt right for our team, where as suarez continously creates his own chances and without him we look dull and ordinary.RedTurk
---------------------------------------------
You say he can't header, look at the stats from the Fulham game, he won 77.8% of airiel challenges.
But hey your world of negativity won't accept that.
KT!
Ed, can you not put RedTurk's posts in the 'Menopausal Man Talk' page? Or has he been f*cked off that page, for clogging up your servers?
Thanks...
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
I agree with RedTurk here I have to admit, Carroll was always hitting the deck and cant control the ball, He's a decent player but He isn't for our style of play. Its a Shame.
RIP Gary!
Welsh Red
Yeah Welsh Red i agree that he does need to strengthen up abit, his control when the pass can also be improved.
You have to remember he was the focal point of route 1 football at Newcastle and it's gonna need a hell of alot of work for him to change his game up.
Give him time to adjust to a new everything and he will most likely come good.
Lol Blair, Redturk makes me want to go on those pages and rant.
KT!
Ok look as the stats from fulham game, its prob because he got the least of the ball that hes stats were that high. he is far to weak for someone who is so tall, slow and for a number9. he does have a good left foot but hes reaction time is to slow to allow himself the time and space to get one in.
and this give him time stuff people don't realise that he has been training with us for almost 9months and thats with the injury he had. pepe said himself carroll is poor in training and he doesn't run many yards
like it or not ngog had more strength than him and thats the only department ngog failed at. because he had a very good touch, had speed, good ball control, had a decent strike and is a poucher.
06 Dec 2011 22:15:43
makes me laugh how people are coming on here saying how crap carroll is and what a waste of money he is but will someone please tell me how many goalscoring chances has the lad actually had in the games he's played,not many that i can remember,downing was bought in the summer to provide him with the type of crosses he needs but how many times have the two started a game together,again not many,kk needs to sort out his best starting 11 and stick with it for a few games,hopefully that 11 will include both players so we as fans can then fairly start judging both players.
paul
He missed an open goal by hitting the bar from 5 yards out (though it was a volley), the penalty also against should have scored by putting it either side of keeper however almost all his good shots on target have been wondersaved e.g.Joe Hart
06 Dec 2011 21:35:12
Ed, any news on Gerrard? Whens he back?
Cheers! {Ed002's Note - January we were told by Macca.}
Not what i was told last night, i will check before i can confirm the news but it did not sound great...
Cheers
Macca
Hi macca, so do you mean he will be out from what you heard till after jan even? thanks
hibsylfc
If it is bad news Macca, then surely we will have to buy another CM, come January.
Heard any rumours?
Thanks.
Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
I wonder if that's the reason Shelvey was recalled.
TIZER RED
06 Dec 2011 21:21:09
Mate.. you do realize that Bellamy also missed one-on-one with the Schwarzer, and Suarez finds it extremely hard to hit shots on target?
Sure, I am pissed with Carrol too, but he is not worse than the rest of our strikeforce right now..
Drigan
AC dose not put in the effort or shift that the rest do, hes got pleanty of chances to do so,so right now he is the worst..mate
JayB
Comparing suarez and bellamy with andy carroll, they both make our team play good football where as watching andy carroll falling all over the place, cant get 1 header, cant control, no pace. its not his fault but he just isnt right for our team, where as suarez continously creates his own chances and without him we look dull and ordinary.RedTurk
You mean like against Chelsea in the Carling Cup RedTurk yeah?
Which team does redturkey support? whinge whinge moan moan. He/she is so depressing.
RedTurk is correct, andy carroll football wont work at L/pool, we just have to agree that he was a bad buy, and we'ld be lucky to get 10mill if he was sold. Someone loves posting stats about players on this site, one states that AC won i think 78% of aerial duels, thats gr8 but 70% of them were totally useless. Suarez with either Bellamy or Maxi upfront for me!
Red&Bred
Red&Bred
If he wins the airiel duel then it's not him thats rubbish, what more can he do than win the header.
KT!
KT
If winning aerial duels means, the ball going out of play from winning a duel,heading the ball to no one , not finding his own players then your right what more can he do..
Red&Bred
Red&Bred
Have you noticed the way he head the ball for the challenge? He's still expecting Nolan to be running on the end of it.
Give him time to adjust.
KT!
06 Dec 2011 21:14:19
Almost halfway through the season now, so I thought I'd do a half term report card for our new players.
Andy Carroll - Not really new as he arrived last season but I will include him since its his first full season. Showed a lack of interest in early season and struggled to get into matches. More recently he has shown signs of improvement, his link up play has improved and he is finding space in the box...just a shame that noone else finds him. D+ : with a bit more effort and guile he can push his grade to a C and pass.
Charlie Adam - Started poorly in my opinion, was struggling for fitness past the 60 min mark at start of season and looked to be carrying a little extra weight. Has shed a couple of pounds and looks to be settling in well. Pushes forward with the ball, is not afraid to shoot and surprising loves to dribble past multiple defenders, often with success. Free kicks have been disappointing for a player of his reputation but corners have steadily improved. C+ - Valuable team member.
Jordan Henderson - Jordan has had a tough settling in period out in the unfamiliar wing role. His work rate has been there but has looked nervous and uncomfortable. Has grown into his role and when moved to the centre has looked dangerous at times with his runs forward and always willing to shoot. Short range passing and one two play is good. Needs to get himself in the game a little more but has shown early signs that he could be worth his price tag. C : Just passes but based on current progress could well be a C+ by end of season.
Jose Enrique - Jose has settled in better than any other signing and has instantly shown both his quality and potential. How Capdevilla keeps him out the spain squad is a mystery. Always willing to get forward and rarely is he unable to get back and cover, seems to cover the entire wing on his own. Excellent stamina. Only negative is that he has a tendancy to run too often which sometimes results in him releasing the ball late. A : Excellent displays every game and its hard to see how he can improve.
Any one feel different, let us all know.
Rewflo
Only point I don't agree with is this:
"he is finding space in the box...just a shame that noone else finds him"
...if anyone can find me footage of Carroll making a front post run I'll be amazed.
I really want Carroll to get some form. Not because I think he can ever be anything near World class, but because if we're to succeed this season we need as many options as we can get, and we need to start scoring goals.
My two cents as to why he's not performing, but the other signings are is this: Suarez, Adam, Enrique et all, all wanted to move to Liverpool and pushed for their moves. Carroll was sold by Newcastle. He never wanted to move and now he's in a city he doesn't want to be living in and can't be arsed. It's the same if I was to go into work tomorrow and be told that I had to move to an office 200 miles away.....I wouldn't be happy.
Also, it says a lot that Downing wasn't in your review. That's how little an impact the guy has which is a shame because he's a good little baller at times. Maybe Martin O'Neill will come chasing him.
-Shane.
Not wanting to be picky, but you included AC in your mid term report despite him signing at the same time as LS, but downing didnt get graded at all.
Red4Ever
Adams free kicks haven't been that good?
He never gets to take them that's why...
Tom.
Yep, my mistake. I was rushing to finish the post before I fell asleep I did miss downing.
Stuart downing - Started quite well and looked to make the LW his own (Should be easy with no opposition really). Sadly he has slowly drifted in and out of games and now in and out of the first team. Has not shown the crossing his was famed for before signing for us. On the plus side always looks to get forward and is always willing to shoot. D+ : Will need to hit the touchline and fire in more crosses to up his grade, perhaps forcing him to stay on the left is whats needed as the drifting left to right seems to discourage his crossing.
In response to Shane : I know he doesnt get to the front post much but watch his games, he is in space around the 6 yard box often and also makes good runs to the back post. He might not get to the front post but then nobody does and its hard to get there since thats usually where suarez dribbles to. All of our strikers at present are strugling for goals but people seem to just vilify Carroll
Rewflo
06 Dec 2011 21:03:28
ed i think kenny got it wrong last night
i would of played henderson in mid with adam and downing and kuyt/maxi
and i wish people leave carrol alone
he has been here less than a year and injured for a lot of it. ok we should never of signed him why he was injured but just get behide him. also we neeed to stop playing long ball game when he in the side and get down the wings and cross it in to him or cross when in there half and not ours
come on people get behide carrol
Thats right because henderson has experience in the role cos he played for england u21 in the same position and done a good job.RedTurk
06 Dec 2011 20:55:55
Everyone has weighed in with their opinions on Andy Carroll and ill like to add my case and before anyone jumps on my back I BACK ANDY CARROLL and think and believe/hope he will come good in time and will back him no matter how frustrating it might be. Here is where the problem lies, which iv seen a view intelligent fellow Reds fans has spotted:
1. Our system of play does not suit Andy Carroll. Yes he could of put a few of the chances away that he has had but in his defence do we have "quality wingers" the answer is no. Does his play rely on quality service from the wings YES.
2. The majority of games I have seen, he seems to not be stationed in the box as often as I would of thought a striker with his attributes would be. Now that brings the question has he all of a sudden forgot his positional awareness or is he under instructions from management? I believe its the latter rather than the former.
2. Confidence... and yes he is probably aware and sees the sort of comments that some so called "fellow reds" on the site have left. This in additional to points 1 & 2 bring the conundrum, we need points desperately to stay in reach of 4th spot, which is vital in attracting a certain calibre of signings in summer and of course finances thus progressing as a club, which every fellow red want more than anything.
The system we are playing does not help Andy Carroll and could potential shatter his confidence further if he struggles to adjust. Then again we need to play him to build his confidence but this and I say it carefully before its misinterpreted and people call me an "Andy Carroll hater and not a true fan", which couldn't be further from the truth... this could be at the cost of points in the league table, if we play him in the same system. Or it could all click and he could go on a run of games of scoring.
I think because of all of this its tricky and a delicate situation. I am not a manager I am just a fan with an opinion, Kenny and the management no better than us. One thing I do know for sure is we need help upfront in the form of an out and out striker who just converts the chances, nothing fancy just puts the ball in the back of the net. Also the problem thats plagued us for a long time is a right sided midfielder who can provide quality service. If these two are areas are solved in January, wait I will go one step further if a right sided midfielder is brought in and Downing finds any sort of form he showed at Aston Villa we might just see a completely different Andy Carroll as well as that all important 4th spot.
LFC4LIFE
06 Dec 2011 20:52:32
i think we really need to go for gaston ramirez in january, he is a class player and will settle quickly with suarez and coates there. I also think we need a top striker, someone like benzema but dont know if thats possible.RedTurk
I think we need a striker more than anything. Just someone who can put the ball in the net will do. We need a goal poacher badly.
Danny
06 Dec 2011 20:50:53
By next summer I hope we can do this:
Sell:
Carrol 15mil
Aqua 5mil
Cole 3mil
Spearing 4mil
Kuyt 7mil
Maxi 3mil
Buy:
Cavani 40mil
Ramirez 15mil
Frimpong 8mil
Hoilett - free
Farfan - free
A quick striker e.g Abel hernandez - 18mil
Total spent: 44mil which with 2 windows should be available.
Think our identity should be speed so we can counter as that's were we've been best, we would have Enrique, Johnson, Hoilett, farfan, Bellamy, Suarez, hernandez, hendo, Ramirez all with pace and cavani to Gibson them off.
What!?
Frimpong & Farfan no, the others are worth a punt however I hope we buy Ramierz in Jan then Gerrard comes back fit and fires us into the champions league and we buy Cavani in the summer to look like this..................
------------Reina-----------
Johnson-Skrtel-Agger-Enrique
------------Lucas-----------
-------Gerrard--Adam-------
Ramierz----Cavani---Suarez
Never going to happen mate. sorry.We will not sell Carroll and will most definitively not worth the 15 million quoted.Cavani will not come unless we get into the top 4 which i think seems unlikely considering Blackburn have scored more goals than us.It would be great but will not happen.
Danny
So danny, you're saying we wouldn't fetch 15m for Carroll?
I'm sure Harry Redknapp bidded 25m only a year ago.
You say we are unlikely to get into the top 4, we are playing great football and have dominated every game bar Spurs and Swansea.
Try to support the team for once.
KT!
Also to the original poster, keep off FM.
KT!
No disrespect, but why would harry bid for a carthorse when he's got adebayor, defoe and van der vaart??
For starters Ramirez is on the wrong side of that formation, no point putting Lucas and Gerrard in your formation either. Cavani will never be a Liverpool player! dream on buddy!
Steve
Steve
Ramirez is a right sided or central player who when out right likes to cut in and have a crack on his left
KopEndDannyLFC
KopEndDannyLFC, his wikipedia profile lists him as a second striker, his transfermarkt profile lists him as a left winger/ striker and list him as a CAM. I havent seen anywhere listing him as a right sided player. Not looking for an argument its just what I have seen him as!
Steve
That is just like my fifa team
Reina
Kelly Carra Coates Enrique
Gerrard Adam Ramirez
Hulk Cavani Suarez
And just like my fifa team its not real life
06 Dec 2011 20:44:26
I have read a couple of posts about Charlie Adam and he is developing into a fine player. He was just developing a real good partnership with Lucas and all of a sudden he as to change his game again. I think eventually he as all the ingredients to be just as good as Alonso was for us. Even Alonso took a couple of seasons before we seen the real Alonso.
But i do agree we need to let Adam take more of our set pieces and to make more of them.
Mighty reds
He can become good but Xabi is a different class
He can become very good but Xabi was great. A differennt class, I should say.
06 Dec 2011 20:43:32
Has anyone thought about frimpong, could be world class and without Lucas could fill a big hole.
Good player I agree.
But he's a big Arsenal man isn't he ?
Why would he want to leave them ?
The Real KB {Ed001's Note - they are looking to send him out on loan for the second half of the season.}
Yes but not to a rival for top 4.
Ah OK ed.
Not to LFC though I presume !
The Real KB
06 Dec 2011 20:34:28
Eds am I missing something here, why would we be looking at a big money prospect in Muniain when he is only 19 and not prolific yet it seems to me that this is a huge risk like Carroll surely for the money we would pay for him we could get someone a little more proven? DubRed {Ed001's Note - he often plays wide for Bilbao, we need players that are versatile.}
Boubebouz is better option and just as versi
No way, Muniain is much better than Boudebouz.
06 Dec 2011 20:28:46
i would just like to say i can't believe how many people can't just say we played well last night, decisions went against us but nevermind, theres always next week. you lot just don't have no patient
huddz red
p.s andy carrol has my full support and i thought he did what he was upposed to, and that was to occupy th edefenders to give suarez space.
Thank you, some sense!
Square tomato
Why not use a better player to keep defenders ocupied
Yeah but Carroll's job is also to put the ball in the net. He clearly is not doing this so he is not doing his job at all.
Danny
When last did Suarez do his job then? Been a while.
Um pretty sure we didnt buy the big tree stump to occupy defenders. Im sure he was bought to score goals!
Steve
06 Dec 2011 20:19:35
After last nights game a few points come to mind.
1) Good performance on the whole certainly didnt deserve to lose.
2) It is obvious we need to buy a striker in January who is capable of putting the ball in the net
3) We have the most fantastic support at away games but we need to generate the same passion and noise in all our home games.
4) Kenny needs to acknowledge that £35 million was wasted and damage limitation is needed.Even God can make mistakes.
5) Football is
becoming a none contact sport.
Derek
Agree with all apart from point 4.
KT!
06 Dec 2011 20:11:07
Liverpool will buy emile heskey for £25 million to teach carrol how to finish
Why are you all so hung up on the price tag of AC? Forget it. If we sold Torres for 25m and picked up Andy for 10m you wouldnt be half as bothered as you are. He's not playing great yet but shut up about the damn transfer fee - it's irrelevant. Support your team regardless of how much they cost.
cozinoz
Im bothered because he is in a team above his level. He is a championship standard player at best. Not good enough and completely useless and out of his depth. Give him more time, I think not!!
Steve
06 Dec 2011 20:03:25
No need to panic; last night was a game we could have easily won.
My thoughts-
A rare mistake from Reina and he's allowed it.
Johnson should have done better on their goal but he's always liable to do that. Just as he's capable of doing what he did at Chelsea, going the other way.
Spearing did ok and was left a bit exposed. We played 3 in midfield and Adam and Henderson are not the most defensive minded. But the challenge was stupid and he may pay the price and miss a few games, just as he looked to be getting a run in the team.
Carroll- well, I'm struggling for positives again. Last nights formation certainly didn't suit him.
I think it suits us best playing short, sharp passing with the likes of Sureaz and Bellamy buzzing around and Carroll just seems to slow play down. And with no real width, we're not going to be getting crosses in for him.Also, he doesn't always hold the ball up well and it often sticks with Suarez better; and that's not his strength.
I hope Carroll does come good but I'm struggling to find the best team and formation to accomodate him. Newcastle, maybe ha ha.
Rigsby.
Go back and watch some earlier games, Reinas mistake is not quite as rare as you think. He spills quite a few easy shots but it's not cost us that often thanks to our excellent defense so you dont notice it.
Right. Thanks for the tip.
The Fulham game was the first Liverpool game I've ever watched but I was under the impression Reina is one of the best 'keepers in the world. You mean he's spilled shots before? Shocking.
In January we need to be looking for a 'keeper that makes absolutely no mistakes, then. Or maybe two, so we have cover.
I'm not asking for a keeper that makes no mistakes just one that does not make simple ones. Its a basic of goalkeeping is holding onto slow shots across the floor which are right at you. Reina is struggling with this.
I never said he spills any shots, I said he spills EASY ones. He is one of the best shot stoppers in the world no doubt, but he does hold crosses well and parries easy slow shots back into his box. Every goalkeeper knows that if you have to parry a shot you parry it to the side of your goal not back out in front of it for an oncoming attacker to pounce on. As I said, it's not one occasion he's done this.
06 Dec 2011 19:57:49
I don't think kenny or Liverpool will be too bothered about selling Carroll after all even if we let him go for free we will still be quids in, since he cost minus 15 million.
Can we stop with this nonsense that Carroll didn't cost us anything, he cost us £35 million.
Chris in Tamworth
No, he cost 35m.
Obssession with money is what is ruining football though, why can't fans just see past the price and support a player regardless.
KT!
What would you have done with the 35m in the last hours of January's transfer window, Chris?
cozinoz
With economic sense like that, you probably work in a bank!
Ash
Cozinoz mate, that 35 million cud have been saved for the summer. The were decent strikers out there for one third the price what carrol cost. Just accept that kk made a mistake, n i wudnt be surprised if nesv had some harsh words to say to him. Nesv run the club, not kk.
Cozinoz .........added 3mil and bought aguero!
Personally cozinoz, if it were me I would have waited until summer when we wouldnt be held to ransom.
I know you say we desperately needed a striker but we still didnt have one for most of the season anyway so we didnt benefit from it at all. If we had waited till summer (like planned) then we could maybe have shaved 10-15m off that transfer or gone for someone else. Either way our great club would not have had terms dictated to us.
Rewflo
So we would have had Ngog and Kuyt up front. Awesome. We were planning to buy Andy in the summer anyways. We wouldnt have got Aguero at the 11th hour. I dont see your arguement.
cozinoz
06 Dec 2011 19:56:54
any streams for the youth match?? tanx
06 Dec 2011 19:53:38
06 Dec 2011 19:05:02
Do we have a chance of signing Rasmus Elm in January?
Chris' friend in Tamworth {Ed001's Note - highly unlikely we have any interest in him.}
-------------------------------
I take great umbrage in that remark as I can assure you I don't have any friends!
Chris in Tamworth
06 Dec 2011 19:35:47
I watched Liverpool game last night and again Carrol always looks like he MIGHT score but never does, him and Torres cost what over £70m? and neither could hit a barn door. Also Carrol is the modern footballer only interested in big wages and clubbing and boozing and has no thoughts for the fans who pay his wages. As a Celtic fan we mump and moan about Samaras but he only cost us £2m and at least every now and again you get a decent game from him and some important goals. The same cannot be said of Carrol or torres Neil T
06 Dec 2011 19:35:05
Maxi Rodriguez isn't allowed to play to many games (avoid injury) cuase he is to be sold in january to make room too a new winger/forward. Any truth behind this? {Ed002's Note - No.}
06 Dec 2011 19:31:05
A red card is given if the tacle endangers an opposing player. It wasn't even a tackle. The ball was there and Spearing took it cleanly. Momentum carried him through. How was he meant to play the ball? Personal opinion, and I see I have a differing opinion to Gareth Southgate. I'll bow to his superior knowledge - NOT! Bring on the next match. I'll be supporting the lads fully - each and every one of them.
Table Mountain Red
06 Dec 2011 19:27:35
Charlie Adam is an outstanding player, not only has his performance improved, but he has dealt with the pressure of playing for a top club very well.
How fellow reds can insult his efforts are almost embarassing. He gives 100 percent in everything
EVEN GARY NEVVILE praised Adam, he is so bitter and twisted and even HE said Adam is a key assett.
i think our team currently is excellent considering what it was last year i.e. NGOG, POULSEN, DEGEN, JOVANOVIC.
Kenny is a wizard and in him we trust !
Carrols critisism is understandable as he has barely contributes 50% effort.
I definately think that Adam, Enrique, Bellamy have been brilliant. But Downing and Henderson still have things to prove however we all know they have quality especially Downing.
Lets get another striker and hopefully everything will fall into place.
LTP The Red
I totally agree with you mate. Adam is class.So are the others. I lost my faith in Carol though.
Ease up LTP The Red, Charlie adam is hardly an outstanding player!
Steve
06 Dec 2011 19:24:38
Carroll to Newcastle and torres to Liverpool, makes very good sense. I wonder if it would be possible in the real world?....
Ridiculous post - I'd prefer Darren Bent to Torres
06 Dec 2011 19:21:52
Read that Arsenal have edged us in the race to sign Podolski and De Jong.
Who can we realistically look at signing?
Where did you hear this?
Have you heard anything Ed? Cheers. {Ed002's Note - I don't know of any Liverpool interest in Podolski.}
06 Dec 2011 19:04:57
Why are people slating Henderson and Adam.
Henderson in my opinion has shown glimpses of what's to come , the lads only young let him develop and get some experience.
Adam always shows pride and commitment when wearing the red shirt , he's been pretty decent in my opinion he's worked effortlessly to get his fitness up to scratch and if Downing and the other useless arrogant idiots allowed Adam to take free kicks we would most likely score 1/3 of our free kicks.
Tom.
Look at the people who are doing the slating - it's mainly un-named critics so assume they are from other clubs
cozinoz
06 Dec 2011 19:01:27
14 million for river plaites LUCAS would be a steal
the next best to ronaldo, exciting and flarry
would love too see him in a red shirt
ltp the red
06 Dec 2011 17:56:44
Just cant beleve some of the criticism from last night we played really well last night. Fans really need to start getting behind there team. Things dont happen overnight but we are building at and progressing really well. I also see a big run put together now.
Just a word about our centre mid for sat eds do you see hendo and adam starting or do you see someone else coming in. I would take a scrappy one nil on sat.
Mighty reds
Criticism is perfectly fine! It's like giving the team a boot up the backside, which they deserve.
I thought we were a little unlucky last night, but at the same time our style of football was poor.
It says alot about how well we are playing, our confidence and our ambitions, when fans would take a scrappy 1-0 win at Home to QPR, but I absolutely agree!
Chipkin9 (EIRE)
PS: Let's hope you're right about that run. The next 4-5 are definately winnable.
Chipkin9 (EIRE)
If we have any ambition at all this season then the next few games are MUSTwinable! That said, there are no easy games in the Prem. If they're not scrapping for the top, they're fighting to get away from the bottom. At least we haven't had to play any teams with brand new managers yet. We normally cop for a couple of those each season. Or beach balls for that matter - still time though.
ND
06 Dec 2011 17:48:00
Carroll has had plenty of time, and has got to be up their with the worst signings ive ever seen! He's not going to adjust to out play, he ruins the fluidty. I reckon we make bids for yann m'villa and podolski.
Ls7 -_-
I said last night that i think we should go all out for Podolski
Unfortunately I think Podolski may be Arsenal bound in the summer
Chris in Tamworth {Ed002's Note - You could well be right Chris. I don't see any chance of Podolski going to a club where he cannot be sure of a starting place - it could well put his international career at risk. Lazio, Spurs and Arsenal have shown an interest but he could decide to move to Turkey with Galatasary or possibly Russia with interest from several clubs including Anzhi and Zenit. If he does move to England, Arsenal is certainly the most likely destination.}
To ED002:
Surely it wont be such a decisive factor for podolski considering when he was contracted to bayern and only featured about 5 times and was very poor for them, but still got picked for Germany all the time and banged em in all the time. He's pretty much a dead cert to start due to his excellent national performances. {Ed002's Note - He must have made about 100 appearances for Bayern except in 2007 when he was replaced by Toni. And he lost his Germany place as well. I also don't know of interest from Liverpool.}
06 Dec 2011 17:40:24
Is Aquilani on course to play the requisite number of games to trigger the official transfer anyone know?
Don't want this one dragging on into next season again.
Ta
Probably because they will get an amazing player for only £6million if he does
MJ
Yes. looks like the saga may finally be over.
LiverBird
We seem to throw away good players :( {Ed001's Note - thankfully Aquilani isn't one of those, he was simply not up to the Prem, good enough for a weaker league like Serie A though.}
We get rid of aqua and keep the mighty spearing great buisness {Ed002's Note - Aquilani was always going to go. The mistake was buying him, not letting him move on.}
06 Dec 2011 17:21:12
Patience a Virtue for Fans of Stuttering Liverpool
-----------------------------------------------------
More so at Craven Cottage than any other ground this season, Liverpool supporters have been taunted by the memory of ghosts of the season past. The 2-5 thrashing handed out by a superbly fluent, creative and energetic side last year quickly turned from the pinnacle of Dalglish-inspired performances into the comparative stick with which to beat him. For those fans who want to recognise the silver lining, take comfort from the simple truth that if this team is currently underachieving, their best is yet to come.
With regards to the game itself, it would be futile to bemoan the lack of fortune surrounding the decisions which went against the players in red. Jay Spearing's tackle on Moussa Dembélé, Jordan Henderson's run followed by a shot off the inside of the post and Luis Suarez's disallowed goal might have led to different outcomes but that is the nature of the game; to spend time fretting over the aspects out of the control of Liverpool players will not result in the required focus to take three points from QPR on Saturday. Dalglish's perceived frustration at refereeing decisions serve as nothing more than a pressure-relieving tactic for his players, allowing them the time they need to hit their collective stride. He knows as well as any of us should, hard work and patience will be the key to returning the club to their longed-for place at the peak of English football.
Whilst the team, led by what we must not forget is still a relatively new managerial structure, rebuild, the fans too have an important role to play. It is often said that supporters who pay good money to see their team deserve the right to voice their opinions. Ignoring the premise that it is possible to place a monetary value on or to quantify points of view (which anyone claiming their right to moan must accept they are vindicating) these fans need to remember the reason for their ambition.
Any Liverpool fan dreams of a nineteenth league title, the perceived backward progress of past seasons can indisputably be traced to the fading of this aspiration and by extension, an underlying frustration with supporting the team, yet without Kenny Dalglish nineteen would be an impossible number. A man who won eight league titles in combinations of player and manager for the club might deserve a little more respect than he is being given in some quarters. Put simply: the ambition we harness is a result of his success.
Where then should unhappy fans look? To players? These too have been somewhat unfairly criticised by sections of Reds support. Jordan Henderson remains the biggest positive of the loss to Fulham, as his strengths in central midfield are unleashed, his mixed performances (which have been unfairly generalised as poor) will soon mature into match-winning ones.
Luis Suarez has also spoken of his desire to improve. His chance conversion rate is the source of some legitimate dissatisfaction, yet his worth to the team stretches far beyond goals per season. With the provision that he learns to some degree to adapt to the more physical aspects of the English game, he has the potential, one that we can fully expect to be realised, to earn his place amongst the most prestigious names to have worn the no. 7 shirt.
The idea that we began with, that 'if this team is currently underachieving, their best is yet to come', is true of no player more than Andy Carroll. Those who have watched his performances will likely testify that the link-up play with his mercurial Uruguayan counterpart is developing (and it would be untrue to suggest it is anywhere near developed) into one with significant promise. At 22, regardless of his price tag (an argument which, for the sake of avoiding self-repetition, you can find here) he is a player for whom we will certainly expect more of in years to come, but for now remains a prospect expected to work hard to fulfil his potential. The widespread immediacy of expectation in the Premier League should not permeate Liverpool FC's fan-base; Carroll, alongside the team, will prove their worth on the condition of the support of those in the crowd and beyond.
The doublespeak of the impatient fan remains the most revealing aspect of their character; to suggest that the title of 'supporter' gives any individual the right to attack performances and mentalities, to disregard constructive solutions in favour of a reactionary use of misleading statistics, is beyond parody. For the rest (and, it is important to note that this is the majority or Liverpool fans) patience remains a virtue. These supporters, those who back their team regardless of results, can look forward to reaping the most satisfying of rewards when No. 19 takes its place in the Anfield Trophy Room.
Brilliant Article, Via- kopsource for those moaning & whining on here.
Me too was dissapointed by yesterdays result & especially with Andy Carroll so far, but "walking on with hope in my heart"
Armando
06 Dec 2011 16:55:25
ed's could you shed some light on the people you know liverpool are after. {Ed002's Note - You need to read and keep up with the posts.}
06 Dec 2011 16:30:23
A question. If Andy Carroll didn't play for lfc, we were in the same position, who would most of you "fans" blame for the teams mistakes......?? It's a team game win or loose. It always seems to be some ones fault with you lot. There are loads of incididents in a game that brings many outcomes, fine margins.
Keep the faith, stop bloody moanin.
Matty b
If carroll wasnt in the team and we were in the same position that would be 35m well saved
Probably blame the least effective player but if Carroll wasn't in the team we would have probably picked up a win a Fulham. By all means keep the faith but make sure it ain't blind.
Why are people still blaming Carrol he had just as much luck as everyone else, why not blame spearing as he was absolutely sh1te as a cdm he left holes everywhere all you carrol haters are pathetic
MJ
Id say they would find someone else to blame
06 Dec 2011 16:30:21
FT: LFC Reserves 5-1 Wigan.
Goals: Shelvey (2), Adorjan, Eccleston, Suso.
Thanks, James.
Suso is on form
Shelvey for QPR!
Want to see Suso and shelvy in Liverpool
next match
Suso, my favourite lad indeed. Hope, he would have a great career here. YNWA
06 Dec 2011 16:28:53
When people say Andy Carroll only cost us 35 million because of Torres being sold does that mean that other strikers cost 20million more just because we sold someone? No... if we bought a top quality striker like David Villa he would still only cost 35-40 million. I think Andy Carroll was the wrong choice and with that 50 million we could have got just about anyone in the world. You really think that Andy Carroll is one of the best we could have bought?
Andy was apparently third choice back in January, mate.
And remember he agreed to let go of his lifelong loyalty to the Toon, and to take a chance on joining LFC, who lets be honest looked a fading force back then, and who his team had not long beaten 3-1.
I agree that he's not playing at his best at the moment, but he's trying to learn a whole different style, so don't judge him until the season's over and he's a had decent run of games.
He didnt want his 35m price tag, it was the NUFC owners who drove such a hard bargain, because they knew we desperately needed another striker at the last minute.
And I dont think you're quite clear on the way the finances worked for the Carroll/Torres deals, tbh.
Ask everton to take carrol and others on loan for rodwell and see if rodwell can slot into our midfield , same argument for him as all our other signings hes one for the future.
Yep !
Andy Carroll has a fantastic career ahead of him with 'Kenny Dalglish & LFC'
1977
06 Dec 2011 16:28:44
Eds, I hear Premier League places in Europe could be reduced to 3 for some unknown reason? Could you possibly enlighten me on this one? Thanks.
Furqan. {Ed002's Note - What you have heard is completely wrong so no explanation is required.}
06 Dec 2011 16:27:58
Watched the game again today on LFC tv and the ref was absolutely abysmal. In the 1st half AC Chests the ball then heads it off to Adam square of him, Dembele comes along and boots Carroll in the happy sacks and nothing was done. Then Dempsey loses the ball to spearing so he chops Henderson down, nothing done. He then goes and butts Bellamy and they both get booked. And what was the freekick against Bellamy on the edge of our box in the 2nd half for?
Hope he is sent down a few divisions for a month or so as punishment.
Tommy Walsh
Couldnt agree more mate it was very poor officiating
Spearing was also rubbish, he left big gaps that made us open to nearly every single fulham attack
06 Dec 2011 16:24:58
Okay, reality check...
- We've just come off an 11 match unbeaten run!
- We were one game from hitting a record 7 successive away wins which means we've equaled our previous!
- we are playing teams off the park with possession football, including Chelsea with our 2nd team!
- we have only conceded 13 goals so far this season, same as Utd and City (I know our problem is in scoring goals but the transfer window opens soon)
The game
- last night was a poor result but the result does not reflect the game (we know this happens in football sometimes)
Jol said "Tonight we had the rub of the green. "We weren't the better team..."
- they scored because of a rare mistake by Reina
- we hit the woodwork, twice, should have had a penalty shout not given and a Suarez Goal that was a hairline decision for offside!
Having said that, I do think we'll miss Lucas... they had way too many shots from distance and found too much space in front of our defense.
Cheer up everyone!
Just out of interest, when is the award for "nearly there" being presented, apparently where a shoe in.
There are too many fans who think that we should be winning everything available in our first full season with new management and new owners. These fans will, no doubt, be tuning into Man City and Chelsea games next season for some quick-fix glory-hunting
cozinoz
You mean people expect more after we invested £100 million in new players. Are we not entitled to "expect more?" Or do we invest money to tread water now?
Ash
No Ash, we invest 100m (minus the money we recuperated from sold players) to construct a team capable of winning in the future and progressing annually. Have we progressed from Roy and H & G a year ago? Are we playing attractive football and losing fewer games? We're not treading water at all, we're progressing. City and Chelsea spent much more initially and still took a couple of seasons to get off the ground. Be patient, have faith and for crissake SUPPORT the team. What did you expect after spending 100m (gross).......the league and Europe? Liverpool are a great club making all the right moves and investments to become greater....give them your support while we're growing or go follow Man City.
cozinoz
Cozinoz, I never expected to win the league, finish 4th, yes, but I did expect us to be able to beat (or at least take more points from games such as Swansea, Norwich, Stoke, Fulham etc. The notoion that we are building a "young team" is not really true as only Carroll (23 next month) and Henderson could be classed as young (and of course who has good pedigree.) I do think that for £35 mil, you should expect to have a young striker that can pretty much hit the ground running and Downing is at his peak now. With Carroll, it's not him that irritates me, it's the fact that we allowed ourselves to be had over a barrell by Lamlas and his mob and no matter what anyone says, if you have £35 mil and are not afraid to spend it, we could have bought a lot better, in the summer.
Ash
*Meant to say Coates has good pedigree.
Ash
Except our target in the summer was.......Andy Carroll. And he would have scored a packet more for Newcastle by then and maybe cost even more. Your argument is redundant, Ash.
cozinoz
The arguement is not redundant at all cozinoz. If we really wanted hi and had waited until the summer, we would have time to negotiate. Putting bids in at the 11th hour of a transfer window means its a sellers market. There is no time to get anyone else so you have to pay what is asked. Waiting until the summer would have given us other options that we didn't have in January, thus stopped us being take for a ride by Lamblas and Ashley.
Ash
06 Dec 2011 16:08:52
hi eds you said that moussa sissoko and gastón ramírez are possible targets, would both be signed or would it be one or the other {Ed002's Note - They are totally different players so it would not be one or the other.}
06 Dec 2011 16:04:31
Can i just say congratulations to Fergie.
Since he opened his mouth about Suarez he's got nothing off the refs.
KT!
Aww diddums .. maybe the cheating weasel should stay on his feet more and concentrate on football rather than abusing people!!
Like the loathesome Ronaldo did for you lot maybe?
ND
If you watched the match last night you would see how unfairly treated he is.
Yes i hate his theatrics but theres no excuse for how many times senderos went through him
Now leave a name so we can have proper banter
KT!
KT dont worry about idiots not leaving their name its just coward's being jealous
MJ
Its pathetic how you lot try blame fergie for something that he has no control over. I think its more likely that the referee knows Suarez is a diver and therefore gives the benefit of the doubt to the defender more than he usually would.
A.Y Red!
KT I understand where your coming from and to an extent i agree he is unfairly treated ..... at times! What you have to also look at is how unfairly treated the likes of Rodwell were due to his theatrics and blatant cheating! he was also banned in Holland for biting an opponent so i seriously doubt this is all down to SAF opening his mouth as stated originally! Maybe just maybe the officials can now see him for what he is!
No doubt a great player but his cheating and underhand tactics are ruining him!
CRAIGY!
Craigy
Did you see it when Suarez knocked the ball past Hangeland (sp?) in the box and went the other way, The defender followed Suarez with his step and his arm but got nothing.
It was clear he never made even the littlest attempt to win the ball.
I've already said i hate his theatrics, but at the moment his theatrics is the only thing thats winning him a freekick.
KT!
KT its his theatrics that isnt winning him freekicks..... a case of the boy who cried wolf!
CRAIGY!
06 Dec 2011 15:56:35
You guys certainly arent going to make Caroll perform any better by slagging him off
True but should we tell him how great he is, and to keep up the marvellous goal ratio?
I know which would damage him more, do you?
Chipkin9 (EIRE)
I really cant see it making him play any WORSE than he has lately, if that were possible then wow, id be lost 4 words, and NO im not a carroll hater, i always rated him very highly whilst at nufc, its since hes been with us,he looks to be playing with no power no touch and no interest, i hope he turns it round, i truly do, but how much longer should he be starting 4 us..
RED4lifeNOTjust4XMAS
Chipkin9 ... nobody is saying we should be praising his 'marvellous goal ratio'. just accept the fact that he is a lliverpool player who has a better shot at improving by laying off the slating.
06 Dec 2011 15:47:29
hi edds how many signings will liverpool get in january at the least? {Ed002's Note - At least 0, but probably a couple.}
We really, really need another another striker!
SingRed
06 Dec 2011 15:46:35
Shocking tackel by spearing.yeah he won the ball but he could have easily broken oppenents leg.
If that tackel was thrown on my player I would be angry.
Let's move on and kenny sell carrol for 5M even that will be more for him.
HE is not upto mark.its a fact and one goal here and between 15 games does not make him a top striker.must do more.
Red indian
Shocking Post
(irishred)
Yeah 5m for a player who, only last year was tipped to become one of the best English forwards ever, Capello saying him and Rooney could be the future England strike force for years and also scoring over 10 goals in the premiership befor January.
The difference between now and then is that he's a die hard Geordie, loves his city and will find it hard in a new place without his family, he had a injury, he's gotta learn a new way of playing but most of all he hads the fans backing him every game.
KT!
What kind of post is this? That tackle was brilliant. He hardly even touched him with his other leg. The only way that can break the opponents leg is if he was running into Jay Spearing... which he wasn't he was stood still and nothing happened. Ref was terrible throughout the game. Carroll should be sold in my opinion or at least in some kind of exchange.
bast99
Did you not think spearing played the man after the ball by throwing his legs in the air instead off keeping his feet on the ground
You cannot tackle studs up in the modern game at all. Even if you win the ball first.
06 Dec 2011 15:39:22
(1) Can we afford to continue gambling on £35m man Andy Carroll?
Ans: Nop, he is just a cog in our wheel, very clear that Liverpool plays better without him. He just not suits the Liverpool way of playing, (pass & move).
(2) Can we wait until he delivers?
Ans: Nop, the time is ruining out, Liverpool are failing to win matches as they aren't scoring goals & their most expensive striker is goal shy as any striker in the league.
As Liverpool are failing to score their dreams are fading away.
(3) Why not have some faith in the boy, he is a young lad?
Ans: Carroll is costing Liverpool their season, Liverpool plays better with out him, for the time being Liverpool are better off without him. May be he 'll come good but after a decent season in Championship & half a season in EPL won't make him worth £35M. (though his price tag is not his fault) The best thing is to Loan him out. So he can have enough game time & build up his confidence. Some might say this will shatter Carrolls confidence, but Its the best option for time being for both the parties.
(4) What should Liverpool do?
Ans: Buy a classy striker who can score goals, an end product not raw talent. Liverpool can even get better out of Suarez if he has someone more talented to play along with. If Liverpool can't afford to buy such a striker play Suarez with a player like Kuyt or Bellamy.
What tosh, When will so called fans get it into their heads Caroll cost £35 million because we got £50 for Torres and Newcastle knew they could hold us to ransom.
Is Caroll the only person in the team that is allowed to score? No
I have supported Liverpool for 28 years and it sickens me that so many fans are quick to jump on the back of our players.
If you keep looking at Caroll and expecting him to be the same as Suarez you're always going to be disapointed. If its that bad go and 'support' someone else.
Its amazing how quickly everyone forgets where we were this time last year. Support the team and the player maybe then he might relax a bit and start producing the goods how would you feel if every time you stepped on a pitch 30 odd thousand expected you to work miracles as soon as you touch the ball?
KopIdol YNWA {Ed002's Note - Regardless of the Torres money, Liverpool made an offer of £35M and had it accepted for Andy Carroll.}
Lol mr kopidol understand this, liverpool gave £35 million pounds to newcastle for andy carroll when that sinks in then we can start talking, all this happened after mr henry was talking about spending money properly and not wasting it like in previous years.RedTurk
Andy Carroll is not 'costing LFC the season' , he is a young lad trying to settle in to Kenny Dalglish's plans for him .
LFC are not a one man team , good or bad .
Give Kenny the Master time to bring his vision to light - Andy Carroll is a massive part of it and also needs time and support whilst , getting it together with the King .
1977
What's more sickening to me is fellow fans telling other fans who want the best for the club (with some honest and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism), to go support someone else!
That is absolutely repulsive! Encouraging people to NOT support the club!
At least those people show they care about what's happening.
Chipkin9 (EIRE)
I think when u spend 35 million on a player u expect a player to come in and perform right away and andy carrol is not doing it
one migh also say that rush did nothing in his 1st yr or so but then liverpool were not depending on him for goals they had other players who were established 1st team players
Andy Carroll has to be taken for what he is not what was paid for him . Support the team .
Supporting the football club & staff is the only way to show you care .
1977
I think that sending him out on loan would be a mistake. Sending a player on loan when he is struggling to adapt to new training scheme and tactics is silly because he will then have to adapt to another trainging scheme and tactics and then come back to us and adapt again.
The only realy way Carroll can improve is to play in the first team in matches.
Rewflo
06 Dec 2011 15:39:20
NUFC fan here, i see recently you have been linked with EVEN MORE of our players(tiote and colo) after already signing carroll and enrique. What next you gonna try and sign our great fans coz yours arent good enough? ;)
Also nice to see carroll still struggling, thats what you get for turning your back on your hometown club and the club that gave you your big chance, for a big wad of cash.
Unfortunately i'll admit you've got a fantastic left back in Enrique, cant believe he doesnt get in the spain squad tbh. However i will say he's a hypocrite, he's as much as a liar as are owners coming out with BS like he wants to stay at newcastle for his career than f'ing off the 1st time another club looks at him.
Haha that newcastle brown is so strong its gone to this lads head, must be another school strike and he's going for it.
You do know Mike Cashley made Carroll leave because he wanted the money?
Nice to see it invested back into tour squad too.. oh sorry ;)
We'll take Cabaye if you're offering though., Krul as back up keeper aswell.
KT!
You are entitled to your opinion , particularly some of the latter points you made .
I had to laugh at your jibe against the LFC fans . I think you struck a chord with some of the more loyal supporters getting fed up with the short sighted posts .
A good piece of humourous banter - with a grain of truth , I dare say .
But alas , every Newcastle United player would leave the 'Sportsdirectarena@stjamespark' for ANFIELD if an offer was made to NUFC and accepted by the board .
Good luck for the rest of the season , you are having a good one for a change .
1977
Nah mate, next we're gonna try and sign some of your troph... oh
DP
06 Dec 2011 15:33:43
heard a rumour (from me) that the officials at last nights game vs fulham were shocking
Len
That rumour's gathering pace mate. Hot off the press and all that jazz
Cuchulainn's Hounds
06 Dec 2011 15:29:59
i understand carroll needs time...but he has a lot of time. He's one for the future and he;s trying hard to adapt to the pass and move style. So, for the time being, i guess we are better off starting maxi. I would not even try to sell carroll just yet. He's raw and i believe can be shaped in pass and move with some hard work.
Vanajam
Yeah our game plan was wrong to start off with also
we should have played
pepe
johnson, skrtel, agger, enrique
spearing, adam
kuyt, henderson, maxi
suarez
kuyt would have made up for lucas and maxi is on form, you dont drop the guy thats on form. with lucas out we now need 3 in the middle more than ever.
Its pointless spending 35 million on a player and saying he is a player fo the future
if kenny wanted to build for the futue he could have bought wickham or oxdale chambelain for much less and should have developed dem
kenny bough him as a replacement for torres and he is jus not good enough
Yeah mate i agree it was a panic buy. I would suggest waiting for him to adapt in a couple of seasons and use him as a backup or backup of backup. If he doesnt show up, sell him, forget him and move on
Vanajam
06 Dec 2011 15:15:11
I believe that we have interest in Carlos Tevez, we really need more firepower, we are getting exposed when our main players get injured, I remember calling for Tiote to be signed as he would fit into our team well, Sperro was unlucky but I think it can be appealed. My wishlist include both or one of Diarras (barca/rm)
Pavlychenko
Huddlestone
Tevez
Gomez
Reus
Jack Robinson could get a start he is sharp,
KD should play Flannoin the middle of the pack
Thanks to all our fans Eds and wishing you all a happy Xmas and New tear. YNWA
Daniered
There's no Diarra at Barca
06 Dec 2011 15:10:47
I know I'm going to see a lot of disagree clicks,
but I don't think Andy Carrol had a bad game
last night. In perspective it was one of his better
performances. He linked up well with other players,
showed some good first touch in laying the ball off
in build up. He had one good goal chance from a ball in
from Suarez, which he smashed at the keeper. I think
he had time and space for two touches and pick a
spot away from the keeper, instead he snatched at the
opportunity.
Last night Dalglish experimented with 4-3-3, which I though
as a team worked quite effectively. When we're 4-5-1 with
suarez up front on his own, we lack bite up front. We don't get the best from suarez when he's up on his own. It looks to me 4-4-2 with suarez and Carroll has been abandoned?
The problem Liverpool have is goals, the solution I don't know - but it looks like it may have to be patience.
Once over Carroll would have been put in the Reserves to get game time and score some goals, but it doesn't seem to happen these days. Not with the bigger name players anyway. Is Reserve team football so beneath them or has the standard dropped that it's of little benefit ?
The Real KB
Think the Reserve team are now seen as a place to blood the 17 - 18 year olds but I agree couple of games in the reserves for him to find some confidence would do him some good.
KopIdol YNWA
06 Dec 2011 14:54:02
I was at the game last night. Noticed a few things that i had not noticed watching on TV.
Reina - great distribution of the ball, world class reflect saves & shot stopping and top at rushing out, but he flaps a lot and can struggle with crosses (Norwich game). it was a mistake by him for the game, but for me his world class ability more than makes up for his odd mistake. He saves us a lot more points than he costs us and is a liverpool ledgend. off game but still class
enrique - so far so good, not a bad word to say if im honest.
Johnson - good going forward but can get caught against lesser tems. last night he seemed to be more interested in attacking than defending. against weaker teams this is important because we need more attacking players to help break down the defence, but it is important to remain switched on defencively . this is something johnson still hasnt learnt. the quicker enrique can teach him the better.
agger - world class. looks frustrated that no one is making a run when he picks up the ball.
Skertle - compliments agger well and looks to get the ball to him when he can as he looks like he appriciates agger is a better ball player. good stop gap whilst coates is beded in.
Adam - people say he makes good long range passes, BUT if you watch he acctually sends a lot of these passes straight out of play. he rarely plays a simple ball and i am worried he is starting to believe his own hype. every1 is always saying he is good at spraying the ball around and he must have heard this because that is all he does! accuracy is no where near as good as alonso and needs to learn a 5 yard pass can be just as effective as a 30yard one. will struggle without the engine of Lucas next to him as he looks a bit leggy after about 10 mins of play. good player, not great. but with the effort he showed against chelsea and a lesson is desicion making could be a really great player.
Spearing - showed his nievity as we all know what happens when you leave the ground in a tackle, wasnt a red but dont give the ref the oportunity to make the mistake! missed his opportunity to show he can fill in for lucas and will be out for 3 games with a ban now. dissapointed as i had high hopes for the young lad. love is commitment but lack of ability means he will never be more than back up.
bellamy - doing what is expected of him. had an ok game. at his age never going to set the prem alight but from what ive seen this season should be starting ahead of carroll.
Henderson - good first half unlucky not to score. was everywhere and impressed me with his passing and work ethic. did he come out for the second half?? must have reacted poorly to half time talk and may have been tired from his first half efforts. still learning clearly but with more preformances like the first half he will be a very good liverpool player.
Suarez - industrial but with no real end product. really really good skillful player but not a goal scorer, would get endless assists for any team in the world but with no goalscore to play with struggles. he tries to much and ends up having to dive just in the hope he may get somrthing. needs shooting practice but if we got someone in who was a proven finisher this guy would be even more immense than e already has been. frustraiting night. clearly dosnt like playing with Carroll.
Carroll - we either have to start hitting him with deep crosses like he recieved at newcastle or drop him. to me it is that simple. he clearly is nt addapting to our style of play so if kenny is so adement on playing him then we must addapt to his. fell over a lot last night. extremely frustraiting last night.
King Kenny - has in my eyes 1 major flaw. subs always come to late. every1 could have seen it wasnt working last night and with maxi downing and kuyt on the bench still nothing happened till we lost a player. needs to gamble more and stick with in form players. feel sorry for maxi.
all in all much better than last season. good players still learing each others games, just lack killer instinct and that creative spark in midfield, whether that be from the centre or the wings.
probably not the quality to finish 4 but i have seen enough heart and disire to atleast see us push for it till the end of the season.
Yeah fair enough assessment mate. Perhaps a tad tough on Suarez who was, and has been on numerous occasions, asked to play slightly wider with Carroll through the middle. Carroll is the real conundrum. He needs games but, at the moment, is struggling big time to fit in. I feel we may need to feel the pain, before we get the gain from Andy Carroll. Is it worth it, that's the question. For £35m, we've got to give the lad a good go at proving himself. He's either gone come out of this a very good player, and drop off the radar all together.
The Real KB
It was an interesting game to be at your right. and have to say agree with most of what you say, think Adam does look for the hollywood pass a bit to often, and Henderson was very good.Unfortunately I think your right about Spearing to, stray passes and positioning/ timing all off last night. Think our midfield played to deep untill funnily enough Jay went off and they started carrying the ball forward. Fulham had nearly twice as many shots on target as us last night which is worrying and I dont remember a shot from distance from us first half, just not enough variation.
I watched Carrol warm up, they have someone on the wing crossing in to him, he has his back to goal and heads it down to an on running player. Fine except in the match he is 30 yards from goal and the runners are getting run wide by the opposition. we have to remember this is proffesional football and the players are playing to team orders, it might not all be him not beenable to change his style?
06 Dec 2011 14:27:54
If you cannot have 'FAITH' in the clubs record signing , signed by the clubs greatest icon - There is no point in supporting the club .
The best things come to those who wait .
1977
Well the greatest Liverpool Icon of all time has certainly done a mistake & we say nop he have not, bcaz he is our Legend he won't make mistakes.
I do not think he has made a mistake .
I think in time the Andy Carroll will become integral to the teams fortunes and we simply have to be patient and continue to support the direction of the club .
Some people are condemning the season already - there have been only 14 league games played out of a possible 38 league games . Looking to the future with hope is the way forward , not complaining about was has happened .
Rome was not built in a day .
1977
How long do we wait, thought wed waited long enough!! won the league last in 89
You are supposed to wait until 'The Boat Comes In' , giving the team all the support the club deserves to help the club a true fans .
'Complaining' does not make you a supporter .
1977
Nothing personal of course .
I just think some fans do not know how to support a football club properly , there is a great deal to be happy with and enthusiastic about but , some people just look at negativity and moan .
I think typically the 'MOANERS' are new LFC fans from the premier league era - NOT LFC fans in the true traditions of the football club .
Big Andy Carroll is Ok , Kenny Dalglish will work it out with him soon enough .
Give the 'TEAM' it's due .
1977
The doublespeak of the impatient fan remains the most revealing aspect of their character; to suggest that the title of 'supporter' gives any individual the right to attack performances and mentalities, to disregard constructive solutions in favour of a reactionary use of misleading statistics, is beyond parody. For the rest (and, it is important to note that this is the majority or Liverpool fans) patience remains a virtue. These supporters, those who back their team regardless of results, can look forward to reaping the most satisfying of rewards when No. 19 takes its place in the Anfield Trophy Room.
06 Dec 2011 14:27:20
on a personal level i feel that people should lay off carroll, downing and hendo.. i thought last night hendo had a really solid game unlucky not to score!! he is only 20 years of age with an awful lot of potential in my opinion, who i also feel is doing a good job for us out of position. when we all know the he was bought as a central midfield player, he will come good mark my words..... andy carroll needs a good run of games under his belt.. ideally 90 mins his as bin really unfortunate of late not to have a few goals under his name. hit the bar against swansea. joe hart with a couple of world class saves against him.. last night he was unfortunate.. 1 yard either side and he would of been on the scoresheet.. luck is not on his side at the moment.. he is also a player who thrives off good crosses. i.e the goal against man city last term.. giv him a good run and u will see the carroll we payed 35 million for!! sorry for the long paragrapth..
stewart downing flying start to the season.. had a couple of quiet games. then everyone seemed to jump on his back. i thought he made a big difference when he entered the field last night, so unfortunate not to score the winning goal.. as we all no GOALS bring a new belief and confidence. downing as hit the woodwork 3 times this season, it only takes 1 goal and you will see a totally different player!! and i think as a team we have hit it 11 or 12 times.. luck is jus not on our side at the moment!!
i feel in the build up to the january transfer market.. we need an excellent christmas.. to leave us in good stead to get quality players.. i feel a right winger, a back up striker. and obviously we need a defensive midfilelder to cover lucas!!
my 3 are:
yann m'villa- comolli has connections and fits to the new liverpool policy, young exciting talent
lucas rodriguez- again young pacey skillfull lot of potential. and good friends with lucas leiva
edison cavani- knows where the goal is, good connections with luis suarez and coates
maybe a lot a long shot. but with these 3 signings, i feel we will be right back into the mix..!!
There are lots of supporters in here saying that some new players need time, whilst i agree to a pont, the one thing we dont have is time and to carry anyone. We need all 11 players firiing on all cylinders if we are ever to get to the 4th spot. The CL is vital if we are attract quality players for next season, players who are playing badly or need time should be not be in the team whether they cost £1 or £35m, we need to have the best 11 players playing every week unless of injuiry, for God sake they get thousands of pounds a week and there is no european matches so they shouldnt be tired. This swapping and changing is spoiling our flow and rythem, yes we been un lucky but it doesnt help if we play players just because of how much they cost. All those wanting to give these new players and youngsters time better forget about the CL this year and holding onto Reina and Saurez.
06 Dec 2011 14:20:20
Cheers for the reply Ed,I would just like to see why they make the decisions they make.
Tommo
{Ed001's Note - I think we all would.}
06 Dec 2011 14:17:09
How about we get some decent bloody crosses into the guy.
06 Dec 2011 14:06:17
I personally don't feel we played that bad last night. I thought we were more than comfortable until the sending off but we just seem to be in short supply of goals and lack the cutting edge at times in the final third.
My own personal opinion is we do not commit nearly enough players into our attacks and the box is almost empty of red shirts when crosses do come in. I feel we are only one driving midfield player who gets beyond the strikers (Stevie G anyone) and a goal poacher away from being a really good side.
Scoring goals is what it is all about and at present we are few short. We are by no means as bad as some on here would have you believe trust me.
Davey
06 Dec 2011 14:02:16
Eds,I was just wondering if there is any way the refereeing association will ever make referees show there match reports to the public?That way I think everyone will understand why they make decisions because the standard of reffing has been so poor of late.sorry if it has been asleep before.
Tommo {Ed001's Note - it is up to the FA to make it happen, but they will only make it happen if the clubs force them to. I really can't see them ever doing so.}
06 Dec 2011 13:59:11
hey ed! could you see suarez getting a ban for sticking is middle finger up or just a hefty fine? {Ed001's Note - should be just a fine, even a United fan said to me this morning it is ridiculous when you consider the amount of stick he was taking.}
06 Dec 2011 13:56:32
Hey guys just a few things about last night, personally the team KK picked was fine, we controlled the game and had we come away winning 2 0 he would be a genius. I thought we played some good football and we were our own worst enemies and not the ref, there were 70 mins gone before Jay got sent off and it was still 0 0 we were 2 wasteful. Everyone wants to blame carroll, truth is he is not Liverpool quality but we need to back him, as for Suarez we have all fallen in love with him, all he has done this season is moan dive and cause problems for LFC but we still stick up for him. Truth is we are playing much better football than we have done for a few years and are very much still a team in progress, but start showing your faith in other players rather than bite there head off when we lose one game, December will be a great month for us, then we can see where we are. LFC 4 LIFE not LFC WHEN WINNING.
06 Dec 2011 13:29:14
There seems to be a bit of tension here between the overly critical and unrealistic (we should sign Lionel Messi) fan and the more blinkered (King Kenny is God) fan. There is also a small majority of posters here who are sufficiently critical to properly analyse the performance of the team. It is a bit annoying to see people calling for a complete overhaul of the team, but likewise it is unfair to criticise those posters who are selective and nuanced in their criticism. Please give up the "you're not a real fan if you criticise Carroll" malarkey. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The counter argument may be that those overly loyal supporters are equally as damaging in that they accept mediocrity, and that this rather than the criticism of performance/players is what will be transmitted to the players from the terraces. I for one have faith in Carroll, and the Kenny and Clarke team. I have less faith in other players who we also paid big money for. Others may disagree with me, be they right or wrong. Thats no problem. They are no more or less a Liverpool fan than I am. This is after all what banter is about.
By the way please compare the way we played lastnight to the way we played this time last year. December 11th 2010, lost 3-1 to Newcastle. Who scored the third for Newcastle?
neekcub
06 Dec 2011 13:16:28
In my previous comment, someone said I was blaming the referee for the defeat.
Yes, that is correct to a certain degree, because the decisions from last night were appauling, however, you have to move on.
The thing that really bothers me is of all the 'respect the ref campaigns' across top flight and grassroots football, because after displays like last night, how on earth can you respect decisions like that?
The fact that tackles like Spearing made I think are fantastic and prove football is a sport which still has passion, but when you get a red card for winning the ball so cleanly?
Every referee has a different idea of what is a red card, yellow card, foul or not a foul, and yes they may be human, but at the end of the day we need CONSISTENCY! Especially from referees who are refereeing in the best league in the world!
However, I saw another comment about 'preeching',
I'm not preeching, I'm simply stating shut the hell up with regards to constantly slating our team when they lose by questioning everything about Liverpool, and start accepting you win some, you lose some, and the most important thing is we learn from this defeat. So honestly, at least 70% of you on this site need to start being a SUPPORTER and stop criticing LFC everytime we lose a game.
Deal With It.
Hooch.
06 Dec 2011 13:14:33
Ed001, would you agree that the £75m we spent on Henderson, Downing and Carroll would have been far better spent? Would you question Kenny Dalglish in buying these players?
Do you know or even think Dalglish likes Carroll? Do you think he possibly feels he made a mistake in buying him given his syle of play? {Ed001's Note - I don't see how you can ask that kind of question already. Far too early to judge these players, even the likes of Rush took years to adapt to Liverpool's style of play. Go and read 'Secret Diary of a Liverpool Scout' and you will see how the directors were giving Geoff Twentyman stick for the signing of Rush for a record fee. But the club stood by him and he didn't turn out too badly as I remember. Perhaps now is a time for us to just stand by our player and give him some backing during a difficult period.}
Thank you ed001, for putting the record straight on these negative fans, how can he say could of been better spent, if i remember correctly fergie really wanted Henderson and had him watched majority of last season but we beat them to it, Wenger wanted Downing to replace nasri but we beat em to it and Redkanpp wanted Carroll but we payed over the odds to get him, so its totally wrong for people to start saying could of been better spent. as you sed ed giv them time and they will show y we choose to investe in them..
BigD
Andy Carroll - 35m = Sergio Aguero - 35m
Stewart Downing - 20m = Juan Mata - 20m
Henderson - 20m = Christian Eriksen - 20m
Charlie Adam? Should of kept Meireles.
* Not saying these players would have went to Liverpool but roughly the same price as what you paid for the British players.
Best two players so far Enrique and Suarez.
Answer: British thing hasn't worked.
Its not just the transfer fee its the wages aswell,Aguero earning ridiculous amounts of money at city.Stan the red
06 Dec 2011 13:08:18
Ed do you think we will appeal against the Red Card given to Jay Spearing ?
Thanks,
0000. {Ed001's Note - I don't think we will, it is unlikely to be rescinded, though I think we should and press to see that ref removed from the Prem. He was truly awful last night.}
06 Dec 2011 13:08:16
Suarez yet again makes the headlines for stickin the finger up to Fulham fans.
One question can he seriously not go one game without whining, diving or flinging his arms in the air like a kid whose mother wont buy him a ps3 game?
Absolute disgrace to football.
You've no idea what was being done with his fingers. He isn't even looking at anyone on that picture. Just hold your horses.
I will tell you a disgrace to football is a player who jumps into the crowd kickiing a fan, Now shut it and thiink about your own team tool
The FA is trying to hound Suarez out of LFC. The media hated Rafa. Now they have both got another hate figure. I wouldn't blame Luis if he moved back to Europe. {Ed002's Note - Don't be rediculous.}
Ed002 What part of my comment is ridiculous?
Only your spelling I think or were you being ironic (rediculous) {Ed002's Note - It is ridiculous to think that the FA are trying to hound Suarez in any way at all.}
06 Dec 2011 12:54:41
spearing adam has not got the quality for lfc.
carroll can be a usefull player when you much better than the opposition and we are not.
henderson is playing better and better every match.
enrique best buy last summer.
we need a winger and a worldclass striker.
we are so far of the top and we are not finishing games off.
the back 4 are strong,our midfield has something missing,our attck needs a killer upfront.
lets see if mr henry really want CL next season?
he will have to spend this januari.
its nonsense that they spend since they took over.
we lost to many class players the year before.thow the hell did we spend 35mil and 20mil on carroll and downing?
KKwill get it right i am very positive but he needs backing in januari.
Adam is playing well for us.
Did you mean it's nonsense what they spent since they took over? Are you mad, they've backed Kenny brilliant and on paper his signings were quality, some haven't stepped up others have.
I wouldn't be shocked to see Carroll leave in the summer.
Corkpoolred
I wud be shocked if carrol was still here next season.
Indian Buzzer
06 Dec 2011 12:51:53
Come on man,
there's a lot of people saying we should stop saying negative things aboout the team and players. Saying that if you do say negative things you're not a true fan. Well I bet you all weren't so quick to jump to Poulsons defence or konchesky or Woy when they were here. Don't be so hypocritical, if you're going to say we should support everyone then that disqualifies you from EVER saying ANYTHING negative about anyone at LFC.
There is not a fan alive that can say they have never questioned or criticised a player or manager at LFC. Give the preaching a rest.
Mate,
I would say 95% of people on here do not like, or have not made their minds up, on Andy Carroll. I am in the latter category. He never struck me as a Liverpool player but I said my piece and the rest is up to him. The remainder of our signings, I have no problem with at all.
But what is truly the point to continually slagging players off everytime we drop a point/s ? What's the point ?
Criticise them, ok. But to denegrate out of hand..to me that's totally counter-productive.
That's the difference between the two reactions, I feel.
The Real KB
Well said The Real KB, i think Carroll will come good he just needs to work a lil bit harder and let the defenders know he is there.
BigD
06 Dec 2011 12:48:27
some time good team on the field not win. that what happen to us. there are few error by Referee. that wasn't offside that is a clear goal. and the Blind Red card kill us. can anyone tell Suarez not open his mouth much. he is a class striker but like all the best player we want to speak by his foot not mouth that can cost his game. he is new in England so a senior or Kenny himself can ask him to speak less play more.
06 Dec 2011 12:45:06
After the Fulham game and the ridiculous red card Kenny must be thinking about a new defensive midfield player. There's all these links with midfield players but none of them are defense minded. With Lucas injured it only really leaves Spearing and if he gets sent off and misses three games or even worse gets injured too it leaves no one.
Anyone know of any players that could be joining Liverpool in January to fill the gap?
This is a more important position right now than a striker in my opinion.
Yes despite the Eds expecting only 1 player in, I am quite sure there will be 2 or maybe 3 quality players in. The fact is we are missing key ingredients, the targets will surely be a defensive midfielder and then either a striker and/or right winger. Dependant upon price and quality.
06 Dec 2011 12:35:45
we need another striker and a midfielder. we need champions league football next season to get the best players. but how are we going to get champions league football when we keep dropping points again and again and again. we could have been fifth place and close the gap on 4th place, but we lost to fulham (a team that we should be destroying). the referee was a disgrace as well. should have played maxi and Kelly but Kenny puts spearing and Carroll there. we should sell Carroll, kuyt and skirtel and try our very best to bring Fernando Torres back to anfield (or get anelka). who do you think will come in January. great website.
06 Dec 2011 12:31:09
The thing is that although we lost, I thought we still played generally very well. Compare that to last December, remember - Liverpool 0 - 1 Wolves under Hodgson.
06 Dec 2011 12:27:34
Morning all...
After a sleepless night (although not because of the game...but it didn't help!) some 'morning after night before' reflections.
Firstly, let's all take off out rose tinted glasses otherwise we won't be able to be objective about what's going right/not so right.
KK - as the initials imply, he's the King. But a king can make errors in judgement and I'm afraid to say I've seen some creeping in these last few months, which bizarrely is reminding me of his last time in charge. The difference is that then we were winning things and they were over looked.
ie When everybody expects a certain team or someone paying well, he changes it. Even back then in the 80's, I'd scratch my young head but through some blind faith i'd not question.
Last night, the only change necessary was a replacement for lucas. I'd have gone with Hendo in the mIddle myself rather than jay. Hendo is adaptable, he could easily play the DM role, just tell him sit snd keep the ball moving, whereas spearo could never play the RM role. 2ndly, maxi shud have played just in front of Hendo & Adam, Bellamy right, downing left and luis up top, 4-2-3-1.
The theory of AC playing just doesn't work for me. 'he keeps the CBs busy creating space' I keep hearing. Maybe I was watching another game as I never saw that happen. Let's check his other abilities. 'he holds the ball up' - nope, falls over. 'he's got a powerful shot' - true but his radar is waaay off, 'he can head' dint see that either.
Also because it's now 'known' he's our weapon at corners he gets special treatment. Last night we must have had 10+ corners yet nothing. So it begs the question, what does he do?
Alot of you will think we need to give him a chance, he's not fit etc.. Rubbish! Of course he's fit otherwise he wouldn't be in the squad. It's true re he needs to play to build his confidence, but at what cost to the team? For me in all the games he's played I can honestly say he'd get 5 at a push 6 out of 10. Put it another way, is this 22yrs old player playing better than the 21yr old N'gog we sold? We all know the answer as NO. At least with him we knew he cost £1m so it didn't hurt as much! Or even babel who I think would have linked far better with Suarez.
After KK took over last season, he looked at what he had at his disposal and then made the most of it. We were playing some beautiful free flowing football, a joy to watch. Mostly with no AC.
Then in the summer he strengthened with a good mix of quality (though I still think could've spent better) I was happy overall.
Enrique, Hendo, downing, bellers, Adam - all good buys, as was Suarez. But in hindsight 35mil could have been far better spent. It's not AC's fault, just a rush decision. In fact he barely played and all this 'we bought him for the long term' is to cover themselves for him not being fit. I mean rafa got hammered for buying an injured Aquilani, is it not the same?
Is adam better than Meirelles? much of a muchness if you ask me. He got criticised for his tackling or lack of, but is Adam any better in that regard? with stevie out he would have been ideal, links well with luis, shame he was sold (prob had face on re not playing). Strange decision.
KK wants to play pass n move football, which we all want, and they have done beautifully so in a few matches. So why change it by introducing an ol fashioned number 9, who never in a million yrs gonna be able to adapt? Baffling...
All I'm saying guys an gals is that we must trust KK but at the same time please don't exclude them (management team) from any constructive criticism, which this is.
At the end of the day they bought, train and select the players who will play how they've told them.
Nothing would make me feel better than KK bringing success back to Anfield and sticking it to ol whiskey noise!
But for me, KK needs to keep it simple. If after Picking a team/formation you win - stick with it. Success is created through utilising repetitively a winning methodology..barca an manpoo cone to mind...why change it? Let the opposition worry about us, not other way round
Back on it at The weekend!
YNWA
Sinner21 {Ed001's Note - you are missing the point completely with your own points - if Carroll doesn't create space, like you claim, how come he gets special treatment at corners? That is creating space for someone else, the problem is that we aren't exploiting the space, not that it is not there.}
Putting the business about creating space to one side.... the fact is AC is not good enough to play for Liverpool. He has had plenty of chances now. Look at the likes of Sturridge, Mata, Welbeck. Theres loads of young talent given the opportunity and they have taken it and impressed. It is about time we stopped making excuses for him. He should start performing or we get rid.
Agree with ed, if you re-watch the game from last night you'll see that Carroll is getting into space and creating it. There was no decent crosses in last night until (ironically) Carroll went off, then we rained them in.
Rewflo
Let carroll get all the space he wants mate, he is not suited to our team. we need a torres type player, with pace and killer instinct when it comes to finishing, carroll hasnt got that at all, its so depressing watching him fall over all the time like a bloody donkey mate. what a waste.RedTurk
Ed001, if you read it properly, I never said he creates space, others are saying this, was just paraphrasing.
i just don't buy into the 'he creates space' baloney.
hangeland had him in his pocket all night! playing AC last night played straight into their hands.
at no point did he create space for anyone. luis on the other hand causes havoc taking 2 men with him thereby creating space. (it's a shame, if FT had still been here he would have reaped the rewards of Suarez's graft) that's why we all pretty much agree we need a finisher in the mould of owen/Ft.
as for the 'he gets special treatment', the main thing he has (allegedly) is his so called heading ability, which then means he gets tightly marked. but honestly Ed, has he EVER given you the impression he's gonna score at a corner or free kick?
my main concern is the tampering with a winning formation/team, which means KK trying to accommodate AC. i don't agree with it. just like agger and skrtl have been left in in place of carra, so should have max
it is a catch 22 situation with carroll but we just can't afford to carry anyone.
playing luis up top with 3 from bellers, maxi, downing, kuyt supporting has shown to be far more effective these last few games and we should stick with it.
another game (like at stoke) we should have won. 6 points plus the draws against both manchester clubs, norwich and swansea would have put us on 37 = second, one behind citeh!
Just majorly majorly disappointed. i still say we're not that far off, even with these players, but we can't seem to take the bull by the horns.
we have to stick with what's working, not change it to put the big man in. a
Sinner21
06 Dec 2011 12:27:28
The more I see of Liverpool this season, the more I think that there's a good side struggling to get out.
We have a good football team trying to establish itself and find its identity.
I would like to genuinely ask our posters, do they see it like that or not ?
The Real KB
I already think this is a good team. We have just lost for the first time in 11-games, we have beaten Chelsea twice and outplayed City during that time. We have done this playing the brand of football that this club is famous for and excites the fans. We need an goalscorer and maybe a right winger and I think this team can really challenge.
The over reaction to last nights result is amazing. We should have been two goals up before Spearing was wrongly sent-off. Suarez' goal was onside and the Adam foul was a definite penalty. It is too easy to blame the referee at times but last nights officiating from the referee and linesman was a disgrace.
JRG
The amount of chances we have created and posts we have hit this season proves that we are a good team. You need a bit of luck and a refs decision or 2 to go your way throughout the season to keep flying high, and we seem to have had the rough end of both so far. Compared to last season I think we are fantastic to watch, excitement is back watching the boys and our attacking football is enjoyable. I just wish people would understand how far we have come since last season and stop talking sh1t regarding any loss or player that doesn't score.
We were on the canvass and now we are back in the ring climbing up the ranks and making me proud to be a fan.
Keep playing the way we do and we will go on another unbeaten run, Carroll will find some form and we will progress further.
The negativity makes me laugh, too much instant success wanted, childish views!
Ultra red
I can see that to a certain degree. We are struggling to break out, especially in the goals department. We show flashes of brilliance but are only really 60% there.
I don't see a team, though I do see certain individuals that way
Keith YNWA
06 Dec 2011 12:19:31
WOW.... Yet again I come to this site to enthuse with fellow fans about the ins and outs, ups and downs of our team but find myself astounded at the fickle crew bemoaning the state of our club and how one or two signings are going to solve our problems, bring Rafa back (laughable!), Carroll's this and that, Kenny got his tactics wrong etc...I thought that the team were unlucky last night and probably deserved to win. If the ref had been a bit more on the ball we should have had a penalty and a perfectly valid Suarez goal ! Not to mention that Dempsey probably shouldn't have been on the field after his reaction to a brilliant Bellers tackle ! If bellers or Rooney had reacted like that everyone would be baying for blood. Spearing was also unlucky. Mr Friend was definately not friendly to the pool. Just remember last year O fickle ones we probably would have got walloped and you would be blaming H&G or Woy or the weather or God... Get behind the team and stop whingeing Tobiwan
Reference to the Bellamy and Dempsey incident, credit to Bellamy because he could have gone down clutching his face when Dempsey made that violent 'butting' movement. Of course no mention of this last night or this morning in the press or media.
Personally I think Bellers should've gone down, I'll guarantee Dempsey would've got a red card then.
People might say its cheating but name me even one side that has won prem league that didn't bend the rules occasionally? They have all done it. You could even argue that they only started winning it when they adopted this mentality.
Plus Bellers would have had every right to go down considering you are not supposed to aggressively contact another player in the face like that. Should've been red, Dempsey was very very lucky.
06 Dec 2011 12:14:45
Hi Eds,
Not a great night,but no need for a knee jerk either fourth is still realistic, spearing stupid decision however i felt Lucas was sorely missed and I think a few bob spent may be well spent we are not a million miles away but we need a poacher urgently. Have you any clues of a goal getter in the lower leagues that won't cost a fortune but may well deliver.
Would be grateful for a response if possible.
Rgards and take care
{Ed001's Note - to be honest I haven't seen anyone in the lower leagues that would be ready to come in and do a job for us this season. There are a few young players that might be good enough in the future, but none that would be able to come in now.}
Ricky lambert ed? DORSET RED {Ed001's Note - no way, nothing I have seen of him suggests an ability to step up to the Prem. There are a couple of possibles, Jordan Rhodes and Max Clayton spring to mind, but they are young and it would not benefit them from being bought and stuck in the reserves.}
06 Dec 2011 12:04:12
I'd like ed001 opinion if possible but any ed would be great.
With Carroll struggling to score do you think a good temporary solution might be to bring in an experienced striker toward the end of his career who can not only ease the pressure in matches but also help carroll on training pitch? Do you know if we have looked into this idea?
I remember reading a quite from owen saying that he learned more about positional awareness from when we got Riedle than from anything else in his career.
Rewflo {Ed001's Note - I do think that would be a good idea, if we didn't already have Kuyt to do that. I think a lot of the problem for Carroll is fitness, he is being pushed extremely hard in training, I am not sure he has enough left for the games as well. But, in the long term, the extra strength and fitness he is being pushed to gain, should bear fruit.}
Hey Ed001, that's a really interesting point about Carroll's training. Do you happen to know how he's getting on with us in general? Like, his general happiness at being here and what-have-you? And whether KK and the coaching staff are pleased with him? Thanks!
DP {Ed001's Note - he seems to be happy, he is not out on the lash as much as he was while at Newcastle and I am told his general fitness is increasing. But the training is much tougher, there is a feeling he is in need of games to get truly fit, which they are trying to give him. But the major worry is his confidence, but that will only really come when he finally gets a few goals.}
I'm not sure that Kuyt has the footballing intelligence to be able to coach Carroll in how to be a prolific finisher. Kuyt could teach him about commitment and effort even strength on the ball but not finishing.
What about asking Robbie back as a dedicated striker coach? Or something similar. Opinion ed?
Rewflo {Ed001's Note - Kuyt is a goalscorer, he scores double figures every season, even though played out of position most of the time. I think he would have a lot to teach a young striker about timing of runs. Anything else could be learnt from the greatest striker I have ever seen, a certain Mr Dalglish.}
Thats fair enough but I expect a prolific goal scorer to be in the 20 + bracket, Admirable though he is Kuyt is not a clinical finisher, just good positioning and timing. I think carroll is ok with those attributes, just needs to be more clinical.
Dalglish passes on alot of help I'm sure but I can't help thinking a coach dedicated to helping Carroll improve would be beneficial. We have dedicated fitness coach so why not striker? Just a thought, I'm sure the management team know better than me though.
Rewflo
Oh gosh we paid £35million for a striker to help us get champions league and we still gota teach him how to finish. what a complete joke mate, just face it one of the worst ever transfers and we could of just kept ngog and teached him how to finish better.RedTurk
06 Dec 2011 11:46:11
Just made the complaint to BBC regarding BBC Sport website article on the front page (11.42 am) titled "FA reviewing Suarez hand gesture". This is what I said:
"It is scandalous to imply that the hand gesture by Suarez was offencive! He scored a perfect goal that was disallowed, and that is what he showed (in my opinion). Offencive gestures like that are usually made with the right hand. I want media to examine its conscience and stop this witch-hunt. "
Please, support in your own words.
RHI
Point well made. In a time when finally the public are beginning to realise that positive media attention can be offered in exchange for favours. I find it highly suspicious that since in purple nosed man made a suggestion that our Luis is a diver, he has received literally no free kicks. Meanwhile, fergies Murdoch empire continue to run slanderous stories on all of their rivals. It baffles me as to how people can't and haven't seen this. The dawn of Sjy was the dawn of Manc favouritism. The media are responsible for a lot of things.
Well all suarez needs to do is stop diving but i do agree the media try to sabatage 1 team and that team is not liverpool it is arsenal
If there's a team that a hatchet job done on them it was spurs They practically had our whole team sold off. Imo whatever chance we had of winning they cost us in opening two fixtures
Espur
Top 6 media favouritism: Manc u. Spurs. Chelsea. Arsenal. Man city and then Liverpool. Check your history. This s*** is political.
06 Dec 2011 11:46:01
I know it's nothing to do with Liverpool, but I'd like our fans opinion on how on earth Peter Risdale is still in football. From Plymouth to Preston now. The man is a football cancer as far as I'm concerned.
06 Dec 2011 11:37:57
People saying that we don't play to a particular players strengths should remember that a player should adapt to liverpool, not the other way around.
06 Dec 2011 11:37:06
I think we need a bit of a reality check here with potential signings, City are 15pts ahead of us and UTD and Spurs are double figures, Chelsea and the Gunners are above us and they seem to be looking at spending big in January. Stevie and Lucas out is a big loss so at the moment top 4 is looking a big ask. The names that keep getting mentioned on here are getting chased by most of the big clubs in the world who can in the main afford to pay a lot more. These players are not Liverpool fanatics like us they will come for the money or champions leaguewhich would be a big gamble with us. We may just have to battle on hope our luck changes and we get 4th which will make us a far more attractive option in the summer.
As for last nightexpensive ticket, expensive burger, and expensive beer! but graet support Lads!Nice to see everyone getting behind Carrol and the 10 mins singiing for Lucas second half was class! RNRed
06 Dec 2011 11:31:02
Struggling are you boys??
Wellllll, you like you're struggling!
King Kenny's honeymoon period over yet?
RED_SKY
What?
Oh dear another sick kid off school today.
Please try and post something that makes some sense!
Recoill1975
Struggling! Not really just a bad day at the office and it happens in football. What I am struggling with is the poor standards and inconsistency of refereeing decisions this season - for all teams affected. Could you have a word with SAF at Manu and tell him to get his referees in order?
06 Dec 2011 11:30:46
Hey eds, quick question. If Johnson is only supposed to play at right back because of his contract, then how did he play at left back last season? Thanks a lot eds
Keith YNWA {Ed001's Note - because he agreed to play there, but it was only for cover and he wasn't worrying about his spot for the Euros then.}
06 Dec 2011 11:16:55
WHO SAID
"there is nothing wrong with defeat"? answer- nelson Mandela's chiropodist
people moaning about suares, its a proper joke he is trying to hard to score thats why he is snatching at shots at the moment, his quality is proven, unlike a certain fairground waltzer spinner that cost far too much no name needed,bob paisleys skids
06 Dec 2011 10:50:06
Quick question ed
Clearly were again not good enough this season but we dont seem to be too far away from a top team. there have been many games that we havnt won but i believe only won which we deserved not to win (spurs) and this is down to the taking of chances. we need a 25 mil 25 goal a season man like torres when he joined. we also need a replacement for stevie g. two players could make the difference. in my opinion we will finish 6th about 25 points behind 1st (city). But if we had hamsik and bent we would be challenging IMO. Hoilett would be an excellent addition at the right price too as arguably the most underated attacking player in the prem.
My question however is what do you think we need ed? {Ed001's Note - a right winger, that is all I think we need right now. Any other additions can wait until the summer, to minimise disruption to the team.}
06 Dec 2011 10:47:14
I managed to get hold of a ticket last night and went to see my first Liverpool game in a wee while. I spent my £40 quid and watched a good open game of football. Loads of chances. I came away hoarse and arguing with a fella about the match. I actually had shouted "get in there Spearing lad" and was on my feet before he was sent off.
All in all, I got my money's worth anyway.
I've had a look at the pages this morning and surprise, surprise...the world's gonna end tomorrow.
What is it with footy fans today ? I honestly don't get it. It's like no-one remembers the previous week, never mind last season.
Is it Champions League Syndrome or something ?
If we don't get in the top 4, are we finished ?
If Suarez wants to go, or anyone else, the club remains.
We've got the stadium issue to look forward to, yes we need 2 or 3 signings, but what the **** is everyone's problem ?
We're not Man City, Chelsea or whatever. We can't just magic £100 million every transfer window and cast aside, after a few months, those players who are stuttering.
I don't know, it's like live tele has become the Football X Factor, and the internet the armchair voting process.
The Real KB
Good man. perspective. thanks.
Top post KB, I share your view.
Ultra Red
Stop with the up beat carp, are rivals win and we lose it's that simple, we'll fall away and then it's " oh there's always next year" we beat Chelsea and where world beaters, a poor Chelsea I might add, paper and cracks spring to mind.
06 Dec 2011 10:45:30
I'm interested in why people think we aren't scoring enough goals, because to me that's the real problem this season.
With a goal or two last night, the crappy ref wouldn't have mattered so much.
I'm not sure it's as a simple as saying they aren't finishing properly, although that is certainly part of it.
Are we creating enough real chances, or are they only 'half chances'? Are players providing a good final ball into the box?
Are the forward players linking up well enough?
Do we even have enough players getting into the opposition box?
Its easy to blame individuals like Andy, but the truth is he hasn't started often, and we've not been scoring enough since August. so it seems there is a more underlying and widespread problem involved that just poor finishing.
TC
We create plenty of chances and the amount of times we have hit the framework this season is testament to that. The problem is a lack of a clinical finisher. If Fowler, (old)Torres, Rush or Owen had played last night then we would have had probably 2 or 3 goals. All of our strikers seem to lack the finesse and killer instinct of a clinical finisher. Suarez is an amazing player but he's more of an all round forward rather than a goal machine. Perhaps give morgan a chance, can't score any less goals than our strikers.
Could also do with someone who breaks late from midfield, lots of times last night there were loose balls on the edge of Fulhams box which in years gone by stevie would have been onto and smashed into the goal.
Rewflo
06 Dec 2011 10:39:39
just reading the posts ffs sake ey
These players represent us. They play for us. They put in the work and try for us. All we have to do is support the lads. Last night we got beat. We move on and go again. That's what we do. Remember your worth as a fan isn't proven when you win but how you support when you are beaten.
Spriggo
I think there is a big difference between being a fan/supporter and being blind. Not seeing ones failings is to fool oneself.
Only way to improve is to understand what you did wrong, when you win or lose. Otherwise no improvement is made as one see's no real need for it as one does not see the failings.
Nothing wrong with people voicing their opinions as lons as they are constructive.
06 Dec 2011 10:38:19
It is often on later reflection, that one gains perspective on a performance.
I felt we were very unlucky last night, clear goal, penalty, poor red card call, and a head-butt, all were poorly assessed and 'called' by the ref.
Thought Spearing played well, and was very unfortunate. It will be great to see what Shelvey can offer (its his opportunity now).
I would love to see AC hit form and prove his critics wrong, but I remain unconvinced that he is the right partner for Suarez.
I would like to see Suarez and Maxi up front, and see how that works.
Shankly's Red Army.
But it's not constructive mostly mate. It's one week rubbish, next week work in progress, week after starting to gel, week after gonna win the league, then back to square one again.
Just see where we are at the end of the season. Wish everyone would stop plopping their pants every week. Just enjoy the good football. Haha, what's wrong with that. Have a beer with your mates, rip the pi55, that's what it used to be about. Now everyone's stuck in front of their tellys, screaming their heads off in anger. Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think. Enjoy yourself, while you're still in the pink..
The Real KB
My post above was actually a reply to the post above the post above. Got that ? Lol
The Real KB
06 Dec 2011 10:35:33
We lost a game after about 12-13 games unbeaten. And people have started to chant against the club. Though they too know the circumstances in which we lost. What this all fuss is about. C'mon frnz, its time to get behind the team. I too am frustrated that we lost, but we didn't do much wrong. I believe that we'd do great. Def, for Champ league it seems that we'll have to work a bit too hard than that. C'mon Liverpool. YNWA
Good run of form that from us lots of games unbeaten, glad we did that because now we are top of the league! Ah wait... why are we not top of the league? oh. Well we must at least be in top 4 with such magnificent form? No...whats going on. Guess drawing lots of games does make you unbeaten but doesn't get your very far does it.
06 Dec 2011 10:34:06
Heard alot about Moussa sissoko, but what is he's qualities as a player?
The player is similar to patrick viera but can produce magic like gerrard, if you put them two together thats what kind of style mousa sissoko is, and why we didnt buy him in the summer really amazes me, we need him this january though.RedTurk
06 Dec 2011 10:26:54
Can i just say lay off Carroll a bit guys. We all want and need out number 9 to be scoring but it is what it is.if you played for newcastle and liverpool came in for you for triple wages and a huge transfer fee how many of you would have left, all of you. He is 22 and needs to perform better but so does downing, Henderson and others.How many times has downing,Kuyt,any full backs,bellamy,maxi any player given him a cross he can attack he scored a few goals this season and needs fans to get behind him. People say he can't fit in with the way we play but he offers something different maybe we should be paying more attention to the service he is getting. We spent 20 million pounds on Downing yet he has no assists
Agree with you there mate. I've watched last nights game a couple of times this morning and nobody ever spots Carrolls runs, quite often he is in plenty of space in the box and Bellers and Suarez had shots instead. Funny thing is as soon as Carroll went off we fired tons of good crosses into the box expecting Suarez and Kuyt to get on em against Hangelaand
rewflo
06 Dec 2011 10:26:43
Either most of the posts since last nights game are from other teams' fans, or, we have a large section of very fickle fans who I would gladly see the back of.
If we had won the game last night, which anyone who watched the game would agree we deserved too, We would all be on here telling the world how KK is taking us places. It would have been the same squad of players we would be writing about, It would have been the same formation and same tactics that got us to within a whisker of equalling the record.
I'm getting fed up of reading about Andy Carroll, and how much of a £35M donkey he is. The fact he isn't banging the goals in cannot be hidden, but it is not all his fault. How many times did we get to the byline and cross the ball in? Once, and bar from a good save he would have scored. I don't know the answer but I wouldn't mind betting his goals per minutes ratio isn't far off Suarez', if not better. But because Suarez is an exciting player to watch, we seem to excuse his flaws and recent lack of goals. Carroll never has been, Nor never will be an exciting player to watch, but if we play to his strengths he can be just as effective as Suarez (I'm not moaning about Suarez BTW, I'm just using him as an example). If we are not going to play to his strengths then we might as well as sell him on because thats the only way he can play (I didn't understand taking Carroll off, then bringing Downing on).
Like all the genuine LFC posters on here, I just want to see us win and am gutted when we don't. We need to stop the Jekyll and Hide thing, We win as a group, and we lose as a group. We can't keep calling for people to be sacked or Run out of town after everytime the result doesn't go as we want it too.
Tommy Walsh
I did see the game last night liek many this seasson. But once again we didnt win. It has been the same for as long as i can think, to many draws. The top teams are able to win if by a scuffy goal but still get 3 points. I might have played well and we could have 99% of the ball, but if we cant get goals we will never get the points we need.
I agree kenny has done well in some areas. But some of his sgining do rise questions, when you think of who we have let go.
I fear again that we are in for another lost seasson, with only eurpa league football next seasson.
Just the way that i see it.
Rushdentillidie
I'm being serious now, I would sooner us finish outside european places than go to europa league.
If we cant finish 4th we should make sure we dont get europa. Any english cup is better than competing in that trophy.
I thought that last year mate, no Europe. But, after more thought, I would prefer us to be in it. We've got a lot of young players now with no experience at all of European club football. So I think it would be better to have it. The shadow XI can play in it mostly, with a few regulars thrown in. I think that it would be good for them.
The Real KB
06 Dec 2011 10:26:19
I watched the game last night, and we seem to be making the same mistakes that we did under rafa. We start with Carroll but no width. We take Carroll off and bring on maxi & downing. We did the same with crouch. We look so much better with a front 3 of maxi, bellas and suarez. We really missed Lucas last night, but I thought Jay did okay.
yet again luck is against us. Suarez was onside, we hit the post twice, spearo shouldnt have gone, senderos should have seen red. Any of these things go in our favour and we win.
I worship Kenny, but he made mistakes last night. That was a banker for me last night and we blew it.
Andy Carroll is a great player, but he cant play the system we play here. (4-3-3). He should be brought on late in games wen we need a change and only with good width.
On the full back dilemma, apart from the goal, I thought Johnson was excellent. Kelly will get his chance!
Any news on when Gerrard will be back??
Lincoln red
06 Dec 2011 10:15:23
Rafa might have wasted alot of money and bought alot of players but at least with that money he gave us 2 of our best ever signings. When you gave rafa a decent budget he quite often bought at least one world class player. Will Carroll go down in the clubs history as one its greatest ever strikers? Unlikely. Will Adam go down in the same bracket as Gerrard or souness? Nope (not that I mind adam he's pretty good). Henderson at least has shown big improvement since the start of season.
My point is I think control of signings should be given to comolli, for the same reason as above. People will say he wasted money at spurs but Bale, Modric will be two of the best players in spurs history more than likely. So far only Enrique has looked to be a world class signing. Henderson is potential and Adam is good. After spending all that money though should we really be saying that we have bought some good players? I personally think we should be able to say we bought world class players for that price.
City spend big, very big. At least though they spnt big on players which are valuable to their team. We cannot say that yet. More time you say? How do you fancy playing europa league for 3 years while Carroll, Downing and Henderson find their feet? How do you fancy not challenging for the title for another 3 years and fighting for a place at the europa league table? No. Me neither.
The Economist {Ed001's Note - valuable to their team? You mean players like Bellamy that they paid to spend a season out on loan last season and then had to let go on a free? You are clearly no economist!}
Mate, you do know Suarez is one of their signings too, ok? Thus far I am pleased with the potential if the signings - hope they all realize it, espacially hendo who can be a legend.
This is the Greek Economist ed.
And this is the City that have spent for 3/4 seasons, half-billion quid. most of their strikers (Jo, Santa-Cruz, Robinho, Bellamy himself, Adebayor, Tevez) have / are / will go out on loan !
City are where they are after fast tracking, with money, what would normally take 10 years plus.
But that's the Premier League and it's fans these days. Spend and instant success on a plate. Sick of it.
The Real KB {Ed001's Note - makes two of us mate, there is no patience any more, it's sad.}
I think that in the long run we need Raffa back. Kenny has steadied the ship, but don't feel he can take us forward. If anything the quality of the team has gotten worse. We are still wasting money and getting no-where. As above at least Raffa did get it right with some signings. I feel that he still has unfinished business here. I would welcome him back, and should never have been sacked in the first place. At least under him we where in the top 4 nearly every season, and if he had been given money Im sure we would have been title contenders. I read a post a few days ago saying that after we finished 2nd we wanted to buy Silva and Villa. But Rafa was not given the money. If we had them players now, along with Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano and Alvaro Arbeloa I have no doubt we would have been up there.
Since Raffa has gone we have gone backwards, and I see no way back any time soon.
Rushdentillide {Ed001's Note - hahahahaha that's funny! It is Rafa's legacy that is part of the problem. Lumbering the club with huge contracts for players that didn't want to play for the club, just for the money.}
My point was simply this. How are city's signings doing this season? how about united? How about Tottenham?
Now how about ours?
Secondly do you really want to be playing europa league (if we are lucky) and not challenging for the title for another 3 years until these potential players come good? If you are happy with that then thats fine. Me...I want to see liverpool succeed.
DEFEAT
first defeat since sept 18th, hard to take last nights one but thats not a good reason to start questioning our policy on transfers, bob paisleys skids
I agree with you mate, rafa wanted so many players that are now world class but wasn't given the money for them while they were young which led him to buy 2nd or 3rd choice players, thats the truth. Rafa is a world class manager and didnt deserve to be sacked after 1 bad season.RedTurk
OK Bob paisleys skids, lets be more positive then. Lets not look at how many bad defeats we have had, how many good wins have we had.
Chelsea are a team as badly in transition as us so I don't believe that win is as impressive as it would've been 2 or 3 years ago. City was a good result despite the draw. United was 2 points lost if you ask me, they are a poor side with zero in midfield.
As for Rafa legacy ed, surely Rafa overhauling the youth team is his legacy.
Perhaps I am being too negative maybe youre all right. I can't wait till 2014 when we win the league, when all our players come good. People need more patience, we have only been waiting for 20 years for a league title, can't believe people cant see that's not long enough.
Clearly these people just dont have the patience of the good old days when everyone pulled together, there was mever any criticism and the world was generally a better happier safer place. These days the world is all about money and instant success.
News flash - we have been waiting... for 20 years, that is 2 thirds of my entire lifespan. Thats a pretty long time to wait and have patience. {Ed001's Note - I agree about the youth team being a very good part of what Rafa did, but it has to be balanced with his atrocious lack of understanding of finances.}
Rafa didn't negotiate fees and wages though. I thought that was Parry's job ed? Or Have i got mixed up? {Ed001's Note - he had a big hand in it, hence the bitter arguments between the two, Parry was too slow and lacked decisiveness. Rafa was too happy to give a player what he wanted to join. That is why we ended up with players in and out in huge numbers. What we have now is a club looking for players who want to play for the club, rather than having to be persuaded with silly must-play-if-fit clauses and huge wages.}
Thanks for correcting me ed. Do you not think though that every once in a while you have to pay someone a little over the odds when they are needed. Let's be honest we are not as easy a sell as in the 80's. There are not many truly world class players that want to come here anymore. {Ed001's Note - to win things season after season, you need a team that loves playing for your club. Look at Barca, they have very few hugely paid superstars, most have gone there to play for Barca. Paying superstars huge wages is just a way to put your club into admin, we very nearly ended up there ourselves.}
Not winning this season though are they ed. Madrid are ahead of barca with their highly expensively assembled team, what about england...again its a highly expensively assembled team. Italy, milan again with their expensive team.
I do agree with you that you definitely need to have a spine of the team which is a fan of the club but what do you do when there are no world class players who are fans? {Ed001's Note - Madrid are ahead of Barca for the first time in a long time, next season they will be back in second. You can't sustain success the way they are going, unless you continually pump in huge sums of money. We can't do that, so we have to look to grow organically.}
06 Dec 2011 10:07:26
We miss Lucas from stat of the match. Spearing play his part not very much Lucas but he try well. when he been red card 1st thing to do is secure your defiance not to lost the match. But Kenny change 2 winger and try to win. he forgot that Fulham attack very fast and there are few shoot Reina save. the change should be Maxi in and Carra in send handerson in right wing maxi left 3 CD. its very hard to win with 10 in away.
06 Dec 2011 10:00:10
I won't be surprised if the owners don't make any fund available for January, we have spent enough to be in a better position than where we are at the moment.
-Suarez came in from the dutch league about the same time as carrol and not much alder than carrol but still manage to adapt to the way kk wants them to play.
-Enrique came in from Newcastle in the summer and manages to adapt.
-but carrol can't adapt, why? And are we making excuses for him?
If kk wants the team to play pass and move style than carrol is not suited to that style, when he plays we star plating long ball which is easier to defend.
Kk should play him in the reserve team till he can get his feet sorted coz at the moment he can't control the ball.
abbs
I don't think that sending a player struggling for confidence to train and play with players who are deemed not good enough for the first team is a good idea.
First team is for the ready players and carrol is not ready for the first team yet, if kk picks the inform players then carrol is well off form
06 Dec 2011 09:58:07
Vintage Monday night performance again! NO champs league with that form i'm afraid. Tactically trying to hoof the ball up to Suarez when Senderos is there will not work. We cannot finish and have weakness in the middle. Charlie is slow and we lack any finishing from anyone else apart from Suarez. Very frustrating.
06 Dec 2011 09:54:50
I don't see any differences between Carroll and Babel. we sold Babel in £5m and buy Carroll £35m that the only differences in my eyes what u guy think?
Babel was better
Thats extremely harsh on Babel!
06 Dec 2011 09:51:27
I find some of the posts on this website are embarrasing by so called Liverpool fans. Last night was our first defeat in 2 months and we were really unlucky. We have just come off two great wins against Chelsea and a really good display against City. Just because we lost a game its not the end of the world.
We are in the semis of the League cup and still in a fine position in the league and its still early in the season. Just look were we was this time last year. KK is putting the blocks in place but it just dont happen overnight. We are competing really well we couldnt even say that this time last year.
Lets get behind the boys and cheer them on. Some of the people only post when we lose to slag the team off. Fickle or what?
Mighty reds
Some people only post to cheer the team on...blind or what?
Whilst others only appear to bitch and moan, and don't have the pair to put a poster name.
The Real KB
06 Dec 2011 09:46:12
@JRG and your ilk
You're right, I've stuck by Lucas always. Indeed, the lad is my hero, and in light of that, I take offence at Lucas--a beaver-- being compared with Carroll--a deadbeat.
Lucas' ability was long clear to the perceptive eye.
In addition, and perhaps more crucially, Lucas' always been an interested player who grasps and embraces the concepts of hardwork, dedication and good attitude.
He understands what's expected of him.
Naturally, I embraced him.
Carroll, in the first and foremost, is a square peg in a round hole.
Add that to the fact the lad's a lazy layabout who lumbers about the field disinterested and simply won't be arsed, to either think or break a sweat.
(Adebayor put him to shame against Spurs.)
So don't you dare use Lucas' circumstances to canvass support for this deadbeat of a player that is Andy Carroll. Lucas deserves more respect than that.
Muppet!
Baie dankie
Ray Burmeister
Burmeister,
Are you green, have wooden struts on your arms, and string dangling from them, and talk in a funny high-pitched voice. With a lust for female pigs.. !?
The Real KB
More rubbish from Chelsea fan Burmeister
'Ray'
Why are you turning this into a hate campaign against Carroll? I never mentioned his name. I said you are criticising players who have only been at the club a few months,.
"What I've been seeing isn't just criticism, but downright disparaging and vicious attacks on this kid, and, to an extent, on his person.
Give the poor wretch a chance."
You may remember the above post from you a few weeks ago regarding Carroll. If you expect me to believe you supported Lucas during the first few years he was at the club then quite frankly I don't believe you. This post proves to me you are a glory supporter and a hypocrite. Less than a few weeks after posting this you have launched a hate campaign against Carroll.
You talk about 'hardwork, dedication and good attitude' and then praise Adebayor! This just shows your utter lack of any football knowledge. This guy is the epitome of laziness! Why do you think Arsenal and City wanted rid of him? Just because he is playing well on loan at Spurs doesn't mean he has changed his attitude. He is looking for his next paycheck.
And if by my 'ilk' you mean people who support the team then I am proud of that. The easiest thing to do after a defeat is to come on here and post negative comments and moan about the players but I can see the improvements from this time last year. If you, with your obviously very limited football knowledge, cannot see this than go support someone else. You are an embarrassment to yourself and the club I support.
JRG
I think you would bevery hard pressed to find any LFC fan who supported Lucas during his first two years.
I'll be honest and say I did not but I'm happy to admit I was wrong and will do so with any other player. I wont just blindly give faith though, players have to give at least a little back to show their worth that faith.
06 Dec 2011 09:44:50
I just wanna say I've backd andy c eva since he came to Liverpool but I can't back him any more , I think we need to sell him , he just doesn't fit in to the way we play football and he doesn't work hard enough loads of times yesterday I see the ball go out wide n caroll just jogged forward instead of busting a gut to get into the box for the cross, I'm sorry but Liverpool can't afford to have 2 average players in the team ( Carroll n spearing ) n expect to win games ,i no jay works hard but he doesn't offer enough n shouldn't be playin in a team as big as Liverpool , I'm not tryin to be negative , I'm pleased with the season and the football we have been playin and i'm loving king kenny as manager ,
06 Dec 2011 09:33:14
I know people wil say we are work in progress and all that but not much wrong, with teams ahead of us all meetin over next month or so we can easily close gap on gooners chelsea and toon .We need a top top goal poacher in jan cause any which way you look at it we not hittin net enough and get ourselves in position with 8/9 games left because thosegames for us are all very winable and i say that with respect to those teams involved.A 4th place finish is and will remain very achievable right up untill couple games to go ,we just have to be in right place to pounce but a win @ home on sat is a must and see how teams ahead of us do over weekend, today week we all be in a better place .red2toe
06 Dec 2011 09:32:05
OK, I purposely waited until this morning before posting so that I could be as objective as possible about the game last night. I also watched the game again this morning and in particular watched for where we fell down...heres what I thought.
I've criticised Carroll couple of times on here (always said that I want him to prove me wrong though) and when I watched the game back this morning I don't think he did alot wrong, especially in second half, his link up play was good and he created space quite a bit. I can understand his frustration because there are 3 times when Suarez and Bellers have the ball left or right of the goal and Carroll ran into space and was virtually unmarked, all 3 times they tried to shoot instead of playing the pass to Carroll. Anyone who thinks I'm wrong about Carroll, watch the game again when youre not angry and youll see I'm right.
Henderson was excellent in the first half and dissappeared in second half, I think both him and Downing have been very unlucky recently and there is definitely a goal in the post for them.
Spearing tackle, yes it was a fould. Watch it again, it's not the fact that he wins the ball that's important here, it's what he does after he wins the ball. He intentionally fouls the other player. In today's game you cant do that, it should only have been yellow in my opinion but it was a foul. I was disappointed with Jay to be honest, I expected him to grab this opportunity and his positional play and marking was very poor.
I stated a bit earlier in the season that we shouldn't expect Suarez to keep scoring as I felt he was more of a creative forward than a striker. It should be obvious now that he is exactly that. I have no problems with him because I don't expect him to score more than 15 anyway, he creates plenty of chances so I'm happy with his input. As someone said earlier on this forum though it's clear that he cannot play alongside Carroll.
Defensively, everybody had a decent game. It's easy to point at johnson for the goal and say that it's obvious that a one footed player like murphy will always pull it back to his right foot, that Johnson should've shown him down the line on his weak foot. That's one mistake, he was good for the rest of game.
The goal... I've watched this plenty of times now and after watching it I scrutinised Reinas overall match. He spilled the ball twice more in the first half and we were just lucky that Enrique was on hand to mop up both times. All 3 times he spilled it were routine saves. While I hate to place blame on one person in particular Reina is largely at fault for the goal. Murphy's shot (despite Johnsons defending) was very tame and should have been collected with ease. That being said we might be able to say that was Reina's fault but it's not his job to win games, it's his job to make sure we dont lose.
Referee : I've said this plenty of times, if I were a manager I would never rely on luck or refereeing decisions to win games. I would make absolutely sure that my team play better. Kenny is a good man manager and motivator and I'm sure he feels the same. Blaming refereeing decisions simply excuses the team. Against the so-called lesser opposition we need to score early, in fact you need to score full stop. If we always take the chances we create then refereeing would be irrelevant.
In my opinion we definitely need a clinical finisher, I don't think Carroll or suarez or even Bellers are clinical finishers. Put mid 90's Robbie fowler in that team last night and we would've won 3-0. I'm a little concerned about Reina also, he spilled quite a few shots this season, was ok for last few games but was shaky at start also. Perhaps he needs to know that his place is not automatic, maybe give doni the FA cup games.
Rewflo
Good post, but suares came with anexellent goal scoring record and is still scoring regularly or Uruguay,so why did you think he wouldnt score for us? bob paisleys skids
The asnwer to that is fairly simple, the dutch league has a lot of time and space not too dissimilar to the italian league.
International football is much the same especially in south america, very slow and very few hard challenges. For Ajax Suarez quite often played as one of the wing forwards in a front three with a target man as the spearhead. Cutting in from the edges was his forte. He plays a similar role for uruguay.
He has this role at LFC but sadly is lacking that spearhead to play off, Carroll did ok yesterday but its firt time that he really has. For uruguay he plays off Cavani who is excellent at exactly that.
Rewflo
REWFLOW
interesting thoughts, and you are more right than wrong, sadly suarez is flogging a dead horse at the moment, i would play bellamy and maxi with him myself but im not kenny, we are in a mad position with carroll i dont think it will ever work out for him at anfield, and if he does go were to? and for how much? i dont see stoke paying 17 mill never mind 35 mill, bob paisleys skids
06 Dec 2011 09:26:56
REALISTIC RED...
before the game i thought we would win easily because fulham are not the same since hodgson..............
when the teamsheet came out..i was soooo annoyed that maxi wasnt playing seeing as he is on top form.
im not blaming caroll.....but im saying maxi should have played and suarez in the middle........
i know now watching liverpool that we SIMPLY CANT finish any higher than 5th or 6th....because we are not that good compared to the other teams above us...
im not moaning..just being honest with the facts.
we cant beat lesser teams..we struggle..to be consistent with playing the same players..we rotate so much when they r not even tired.... and we cant finish when we really should
so i see people saying oh if we win our next 5 games we will be back up there..!!.but so what...the other teams above us will win that amount too..THE GAP IS TOO MUCH...
and we are not strong enough..simple
06 Dec 2011 09:24:38
Woke up and still depressed... I haven't seen such a robbery for such a long time!
Sure, we squandered our chances, again and again opportunities were missed.. But come on, the godsdamn f***ing referee was a complete joke!
Sadly, I do not believe he made mistakes. I believe he was biased from the start, and that all he did was intentional.
Congrats to the players, worked their socks off and crashed the home side - but we need to start SCORING for f**k's sake! Suarez has been an absolute zero in the finishing department for more than two months now, Carrol strikes it too lineary, and we are CURSED by the freagin GOD OF POSTS!
When Hendo's AMAZING hit bounded from the post, I couldn't believe it was not in for the better part of the next five minutes.
Can't win when both fate and ref conspire against you... was what I would say if we weren't so much better than Fulham! Just didn't use the chances... Just...
Sorry for blabbering mates... It's a gloomy autumn day outside, and I am one gloomy pissed off Bulgarian right now...
Cheers..
Drigan
Come on m8 if we won that game no one will be talking about the Rif or the bad luck, we have had chances to score at least 2 goals in the first half but we didn't, because we have lost the game we start to look at the Rifs mistakes and the bad luck, we are playing much better than last year but we won't finish in a better position unless we start scoring goals.
06 Dec 2011 09:19:13
Surely Andy Carroll has been given his chance. Stop saying he is young and he needs to settle in - he is 22 years old and has been here almost one year - and he cost thirty-five million quid - get rid!
The unnamed manc poster is back
06 Dec 2011 09:17:19
Is Glen Johnson useless at defending or what? And Pepe . . . . . well!!
Glen Johnson has never been the best defensively i would prefer Kelly
I dont rate johnson at all, he gets skinned by avg wingers. I have noticed this for a while. Reina should have done alot better but he is usually consistent
Why is it us who have these problems (johnson cant play right wing cos of contract, suarez with his issues, woodwoork, refs)
The Dark Knight
06 Dec 2011 09:16:13
Said it before, say it again - Andy Carroll is not up to Liverpool standard. If you do not believe me go to the Echo website where you will see that I reckon 80% of people agree too. Also throw Henderson and Adam in there too.
The manager decides who to buy and Kenny got it wrong and he will pay for it
He look a bit Lazy. a 22 years old man must be active. suarez come down and help his defance but didnt see Carroll do that. his movment also not very fast.
06 Dec 2011 09:16:10
If you can't beat the smaller clubs then you will be sacked ask Roy and Rafa. He will be sacked the Americans want results its a results business and the top 4 money is worth more to the club then a rubbish manager.
06 Dec 2011 09:13:28
I'm so tired of all the Carroll talk. In a football-team you can't have 11 Suarez'. We need different kinds of players, and Carroll brings another dimention to the team, and the squad. You remember what happend when just had Torres up there. When he was bad the whole team was bad.
Carroll will come better, and even when he is not in his best form he is a threat, and creates space for other players.
Support and belive!
Agreed, but i think carroll is lazy, he must know everyone is watching and waiting and he is not doing enough on the pitch at all, i thought he was a proper header of the ball what happened? i think he does not care enough about liverpool and has no real desire to fight for our team, bob paisleys skids
06 Dec 2011 09:12:36
Dalglish is the Joke he bought crap players and he will pay for it with his job.He has rubbish tactics who leaves maxi on the bench when he looks like the only player who can score. The owner wants top 4 and if he can't do it then he is on the doll. Even before the red card he never made one change after 73 mins.
Mate go and support man u or citeh.we all want top for this season I agree but criticizing Kenny over tactics is plain ridiculous.
He's brought us forward no end since woy left
MANC
is the doll kenny is on a blow up one? DOPE bob paisleys skids
I am sorry but your view is very short sighted I remember when rafa was in charge you said the same things about him tactics wrong and all that. Come on, you are not in training everyday you do not know what goes on behind closed doors so please stop saying Dalglish because you are not going to know better than him. You surely do not expect pool are going to win every single game in the season. Be realistic.
The whole league has become tougher if we had these points 4 or 5 years ago we would be higher in the table it is very competitive.
hibsylfc
06 Dec 2011 09:06:08
You people are a disgrace.
I'm going to put this bluntly okay?
Spearing = no red card
Senderos = definate red card.
Bellamy = no yellow card
Referee = stammering no nothing who should be dedemoted for one of the worst displays from an official I have ever seen. It genuinely made me feel sick.
But for you people to even think about blaming dalglish is a joke. Why is it you're all number 1 supporters last week, and saying how great it was to be a liverpool fan, then the next game saying the complete opposite.
You genuinely need to have a word with yourselves.
Hooch.
Talkijng to yourself is the solution?
And Suarez goal should have stood.
Isn't talking to yourself a sign of madness?
Personally I think blaming everyone else (eg ref) and not taking responsibility is the way to defeats. Why bother changing anything if its always the ref. Lets just keep plaing the same way. Was it the ref against swansea? or Sunderland? or Norwich?
06 Dec 2011 09:03:47
Hate to say it, this team will not make top 4 this season. Worse still it will be bye, bye to Suarez and Reina. They will not stay without CL football. Excellent players in an average team. I ecpect the big money offers to roll in in january for both of them. But dont worry , we will still have that 35 mil tree stump to lumber all over the field!!
Steve
Funny & too true
Although reina won't be such a loss!
So you support Reina and Suarez and not Liverpool? I'm sure you can follow them to which ever club they move to.
JRG
06 Dec 2011 08:53:39
It's the time of year when fans start spending millions in the Transfer Window - this is not going to happen. The owners have already indicated that they want to buy younger,promising (and cheaper) players and allow them to develop. Within a FEW years the Academy players will graduate into the 1st Team. For me the best scenario is for Liverpool to win the Carling Cup and ensure a place the Europa League. With this place assured and the Champions League highly UNLIKELY it would be a great opportunity to introduce some of our young talent. As far as I am concerned at least two of them should be named as substitutes for every match already and when circumstances arrive be introduced on to the pitch. There are no easy matches so they cannot simply be eased in. Having said all that I think that the one thing that we really need is a change of luck. In the League we have hit the woodwork almost as much as the net'. Keep the faith. I have seen more disappointing seasons than most of you but I remain optimistic.
Dutchmal
06 Dec 2011 08:46:49
So whats gonna happen if Carroll scores the winner against QPR?
Square tomato {Ed002's Note - Then you can look forward to the words "I told you he would come good".}
From the bench he'll be sat on? Because I hope we're going to start with the pass and move players and leave the battering ram until we're at least 4 up.
ND
"eds note of the day" ed002
Square tomato
06 Dec 2011 08:39:43
Has anyone else noticed that since kenny went to see the head of the referees earlier on in the season that nearly every game we have played in a dodgy ref has been in charge giving decisions against us?
I also like to see how over the weekend there was outrage at the Chelsea and spuds games where the refs and linos made bad decisions but when it comes to us no-one seems to care.
We had a dodgy red card that there is no chance of being rescinded and a perfectly good goal disallowed, plus every time any one of our players got the ball the ref gave a foul against him
Kevin most certainly is not my friend
06 Dec 2011 08:37:42
Knew a loss would bring the Verruca Salt clan out, it's simple, if you don't back the manager and the lads who by the way were ripped off by a glory hunting ref looking to raise his profile, then support someone else SIMPLE!!
Waro
06 Dec 2011 08:32:59
Ok, so Reina made a mistake last night, there isnt many times thru the season you'ld say that. I dont like AC at all, Bellamy and Suarez for me, first of all they close down opposition defenders and they run their hearts out. Enrique and Downing played well the last time they started. Then to bring Kyut on...jeesus..Cant understand why we dont have Johnson ahead of Kelly? So if we had found the back of the net instead of the crossbars 14 odd times , what position would we be in in the league..bottom line we need a goal poacher, cut losses with Carroll!
JayB
Mate.. you do realize that Bellamy also missed one-on-one with the Schwarzer, and Suarez finds it extremely hard to hit shots on target?
Sure, I am pissed with Carrol too, but he is not worse than the rest of our strikeforce right now..
Drigan
Suarez has appalling conversion ratio, he has scored 4 from nearly 50 shots.
06 Dec 2011 08:23:45
its not rocket science, if you play carroll then you need width. 4-4-2. not 4-3-3 with a narrow midfield. surly daglish knows that much. either play him properly and give him a fair run in the side or cut your losses and believe me it will be a BIG cash loss. kos
06 Dec 2011 08:07:34
hai..ed..great site..bad result..
pissed off. yesterday..wrong team selection...again..wer is maxi rodrigues?...suarez is getting frustuarted day by day...we are dropping points..and it will be spurs, arsenal and chelsea for the 3rd and 4th spot..
i wonder ed..how is spurs having such an excellent run..lets be honest..they are better than chelsea nd arsenal by miles...they never worry about wings..in bale and lennon..they have speedstars...modrich., sandro, kranjacar, vandervart...execptional...defoe, adebeyor...they have a compplete squad. parker was the buy of the season..
tell me ed..whats wrong with us?? yes we are building the team for the future..but no CL means...no big players again next summer..we will be again rebuilding...
we lost so many players coz we never went..
turan, mata, should have signed both.......
100 mill..i think...adam is fine enough for his price..7 mill is good..20 mill for henderson...he is not jack wishere, neither cleverly, nor rodwell...he will never become..18 mill for downing..to supply cross for carroll wen carroll himself is not playing...
the only two players performing..are a vetran bellammy..and jose enrique...
our defence is solid..no compplaints..we are looking great..lucas..is an outstanding miss...
Ed tell me frankly..do you think..we will qualify for CL next season with this squad??
You will never walk alone....
I am not an ed
We are unlikely to qualify for champions league football next year.
The top 3 places are probably assured as being
Utd
Citeh
Spurs
That leaves arsenal, chelsea, newcastle and liverpool fighting for one spot
Doesn't look good does it?
Regards Spurs - Adebayor: a loan player, Spurs can't afford his wages. Parker, Friedel in their twilight years. Modric? ...wants out. Bale, if the price is right, will go... Lennon, not exactly world class. Harry? England job next year ... Good footy this year but where is the FUTURE FOR SPURS. I'd rather be in our position thanks!
I wont say spurs position is confirmedbut i think 3rd and 4th will be between spurs and arsenal and chelsea i just dont think your team is good enough
Harry for jail next year, not the England job.
BJH YNWA
06 dec 2011 08:07:23
so here comes another defeat, but who is to blame, reina's howler, spearing's unlucky sending off, & the ever reliable andy carroll.
to be fair we were unlucky but that's not all to say.
we desperately need a clinical striker, oh oh wait, wai we have a 35m man. nope, he don't know how to score, suarez created two golden opportunities & he wasted,
may be andy carroll 'll one day deliver the expectations everyone is waiting for, but we can't wait for him our time is running out, already the champions league dream is looking bleak as ever, at this rate we might have to settle for 6th/ 7th.
liverpool need a goal scoring striker, & andy carroll is not that man. the bottom line.
06 Dec 2011 08:05:36
How many tmes was Carroll flat footed last night watching the ball run by him?
Kuyt when he came on seemed disinterested as if he's lining up a Jan move and did not want to get hurt!
While we are waiting for Carroll to improve the rest of the team will be getting older and slower, how long can we wait for Carroll to come good before biting the bullet and moving him on?
Dowing instead of Mata must be one of Kenny's worst decisions in football and its haunting him now!
No point in being super positive otherwise you just fool yourself and set yourself up for disappointment isn't that right McS******s?
dark shadow
No idea what game you watched. When Kuyt came on he got things moving and put in the usual 100 per cent shift. "Disinterested" - rubbish. You had a mind made up before he ran onto the pitch, never mind what actually happened. He's not the reason we lost last night.
ND
At the end of the day we lost champions league is now a distant memory ,lets face it kenny has gone a paid alot if money for s**t players.liverpool have fallen short yet again but not to worry there is always next season or the one after??????
Actually, Liverpool has me for the rest of my life, good or bad. :)
McSnuggles
06 Dec 2011 07:55:38
Reality is chaps we are just not good enough or strong enough to get into the top 4. I do believe we only need a couple of players, but they need to be top class.
1). We need a striker to partner Suarez to increase our goals to games ratio. We have not been scoring enough this season, period.
2). We need a top quality right winger to give us better balance on that side of the pitch. Ideally someone with great pace that can also finish.
It is pointless getting cover for Lucas at this stage as we will not make top 4 without addressing the above positions.
As for the new boys
Carroll. He would make an option for the long ball, but not a starter week in week out. Just not good enough, despite a better showing last night.
Hendo. Getting better each game. He has great pace, awareness and generally has a good touch. This boy will come good.
Enrique. Pure class, arguably best leftback in the PL
Anam. Getting better each game as he gets fitter.
Bellamy. Great player who can play anywhere across the top line.
I think our owners will have to accept that we will need to dig deep for those two players we need. They need to be class and will cost us a lot of money in cost and salary. Fail to address this and we will make no progress.
As for now, we need Ferrard back fit and we need to start finding the goal. We also need some luck as we have had very little this season and if as people say it evens itself out, we will get 50 points second half of the season.
For now we just need to get bdhind whoever is playing for us and accept we will not be playing Champions League next season. Everyone might start to relax a little and take some pressure off the boys, who are trying their best.
Mark1
06 Dec 2011 07:50:08
I'm starting to get the feeling that erhaps some folk quite don't appreciate what's at stake here.
We haven't been in the CL for 2 years now . In the past 2/3 seasons we've lost some of our biggest, most important players without bringing replacements of the same caliber.
In a nutshell, we've exponentially regressed. Coinciding with this has been the emergence of City and Spurs.
This season, particularly, it was important that we catch up with and overtake, Spurs and Arsenal and re-position to possibly usurp a spot in the top 3, most likely at Chelsea's expense.
This was a viable proposition, mainly made possible by two things: a) resources on our part and b) Chelsea's decline and weakening of the Arsenal team.
For the first time in many a year, we had the means to get the sort of quality needed to us genuine competitors.
Wisely channelled, that money would've seen this team surpass the quality of Spurs, Arsenal and, marginally, Chelsea, and largely on par with Utd, making us the 2nd/3rd strongest team in th league.
Generally, Spurs didn't improve as much they could've (though they improved much better than us).
Arsenal lost two of their most key men in Nasri and Fabragas and Wilshere as well, to a long layoff.
Their new acquisitions were far from anything special.
Yet, they've more talent and ability and are relatively stronger than us.
Chelsea are and remain a team in decline.
They bought a class player in Mata and nifty prospects in Romeu and Lukaku.
However, they too underwhelmed.
I expected them to do far better.
So for us, the opportunity was there to go not only for top 4, but even 3.
Trick? Get the right players.
(There alternatives were there and many, and were extensively discussed on here, so I won't be mentioning names.)
Now we've a problem.
Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal, in spite of what was said above, are well ahead of us.
At this ratio, CL qualification will be a mirage come the new year.
All three of the aforementioned will significantly strengthen in January, even further widening the quality gap between us and them.
Though ourselves we might bring in one or two newbies, the players we may be able to get aren't the sort of calibre required to haul us back into the mix.
Right now we're like the 5th most attractive side in the Prem.
And without the kind of riches City, Chelsea and Utd enjoy, we're not even a last option for A-players... we won't be no option at all.
So getting CL this season is CRUCIAL, make or break.
Failure to get CL will mean that we're officially a midtable team.
No Champions League for 3 consecutive means we no contenders for the Prem... there are prospects for success.
Pepe and Suarez will consider their options, like, Torres, like Mascherano did.
Do you now appreciate what's at stake here? No CL this season for the third consecutive year condemns us to midtable mediocrity for the foreseeable future.
WAKE UP!
Baie dankie
Ray Burmeister
'Ray'
Do you support Liverpool or Reina and Suarez? If these players decide to leave at the end of the season I will continue to support Liverpool FC. Players come and go but the club will always be here.
Everyone knows what is at stake here but what is continually moaning at Kenny and the players going to achieve. These players are going to be with us for foreseeable future so I suggest you back them rather than continually moan at them at every given opportunity. If you cannot see the progress we have made in the last year than you are a fool.
A couple of days ago you praised Lucas for coming through all the criticism he received when he first joined the club and proving himself to be a great player. Now you're criticising players that have only been at the club for a few months. You're a hypocrite.
If it wasn't for the poor officiating we would have been two goals up before Spearing was sent off and 12-games unbeaten. Get a grip and support the team.
JRG
Yes the club will always be there, but I want to see good players at the club not s**t ones who lead us to mid table, so it is very important to hang on to good players. Stop with the blind faith.
06 Dec 2011 07:03:29
Hi Eds why doesn't the FA implement a rule to fine the refs by 5-10% of their payday for each ref. howling ? I bet if they do most of the refs will go home emptyhanded.
06 Dec 2011 06:30:58
Luis Suarez involved in further controversy after finger gesture made towards Fulham fans after defeat.
This guy is going to get punished for his stupid acts.
Daniel Rogers.
06 Dec 2011 06:19:54
Just thought I'd put in my two cents on Jay Spearing. Prior to the sending off, he was anonymous and being anonymous is the last thing you wanna be when you're playing in midfield.
Anyway, time to move on, and here is the line up I would like to see on Saturday
Reina
Kelly Skrtel Agger Enrique
Henderson Adam
Kuyt Shelvey Maxi
Suarez
With Bellamy coming on as an impact sub for anyone of the front four. Downing and Carroll are not good enough(yet). Johnson's too inconsistent, he can have a great game in one match and a disaster the next. Kelly's never put a foot wrong when he plays. Shelvey deserves a chance, and if we're in a comfortable position perhaps Coady can get a run out if he's on the bench.
Keith YNWA
Downing instead of Kuyt, switch Maxi to RM. Downing looked good and deserves another chance. We all know Kuyt will do nothing but run up and down, loose the ball and miss a simple chance or 2 all game.
06 Dec 2011 06:14:52
Kenny has to take the criticism after spending over a 100 million pounds on complete and utter rubbish only Suarez and Enrique lookgood buys the rest are not Liverpool players in my book Carroll is a write off Adam and Henderson are mediocre at best but the worst of them all has to be Stuart Downing he has had so many shockers its unreal at least in defense of Carroll he has not had the minutes on the pitch but Downing is the worst of the lot how he does not come in for more stick i do not know Kenny's buy British and English experiment has been a complete and utter disaster
Should we have won last night yes suarez goal nothing wrong with it then penalty not given also tackle that wins the ball should not be a red card end off youse people are all doom mongers its a work in progress and im happy with the way we are progressing
06 Dec 2011 05:06:05
Can I just say after last nights showing I would carry Andy Carroll back to Newcastle myself. He offers absolutely nothing to our team, no pace, no reaction, I think I saw him win 3 headers all night. Joker
Coily
I think its about time Suarez started scoring a few goals too. His little tricks are fantastic but he was bought to score goals too. Sometimes his shooting/finishing looks very amature.
He doesnt play for your team, Joker, he plays for Liverpool
cozinoz
Suarez post is spot on. He needs to calm down, stop the antics and start scoring too.
06 Dec 2011 03:27:23
I'm sickened by this stinking culture we see on here of vilifying and dismissing as "a Manc" anyone who departs from popular opinion.
Take RedTurk for example.
First and foremost, the Turk is entitled to his views and to air them from whatever angle he wants.
As for his views themselves, I agree with more or less of what he says.
He raises very real issues. Problem is that, as they say, "The truth hurts".
So many DON'T want to hear them truths and resort to slagging the RedTurk off to block out these truths.
The reality that Carroll was an unnecessary, expensive panic buy who's turning out to be a royal flop who'll never be a Liverpool player pains them, VERY MUCH.
But because they wouldn't dare question the man who brought him here, they'd rather drown themselves in the delusion that Carroll is "young, has potential and will come good".
Indeed, he may one day be good, but that WON'T be at LFC.
This is the point the Turk and many alike have been at pains to stress.
The reality's that LFC understrengthened last summer.
Given the means at his disposal, Dalglish could and SHOULD have done a much better job of improving this squad.
This is the truth, and it hurts many.
In an effort to block it out and make themselves feel better, they slag off those who tell it like it is and trot out the absolutely nonsensical, irrelevant "Kenny knows", as if when his "knowing" means he's always right.
Many had been clamouring for Mata when the possibility of signing him was real.
Next moment, Downing's Dalglish's man, the interest in Mata ceases.
Suddenly, "stats" were trotted out by the Tomkinses and their in an effort to show why Downing "was a better" signing for us "than Mata".
Well, what are Downing's "stats" compared to Mata's? What are the "stats" for our a) home games, b) goals for, c) clean sheets?
Where are we on the log?
By how many points do we trail Spurs, who by the way have played a game less?
Look, no amount of "Kenny knows", "Kenny's won us titles" is going to change the fact that this team isn't good enough.
I don't even for one second fault the owners.
Henry and Werner provided the resources for Dalglish, and given such means, much, much should've done to improve the squad.
RedTurk's detractors know this all too well. But because the man responsible isn't, say, Roy Hodgson or Rafa Benitez, people would rather close shut their a) eyes, b) ears and c) mouths.
The Turk, you raise very valid points. Keep it up, fella.
Baie dankie
Ray Burmeister
Big load of rubbish Ray. It's called SUPPORTING your team. According to your philosophy we would have sold Rush, Crouch & Lucas after the same period that Andy has been here. Support your team and they have a better chance of playing well.
You and RedTurkey are not realists, you are negative posters who cry behind their keyboards because Kenny's transfer choices didn't match yours. If we had bought Mata and he didn't fit into our team (like Torres at Chelsea) you would be moaning and whinging still.
Everyone is welcome to their opinion on this site but acknowledge the fact that you and RedTurkey might well be fans, and just as likely may be Mancs.....but you are not SUPPORTERS of Liverpool Football Club.
cozinoz
Truthful post burmeister. I wud carry carrol to newcastle n hand him over for free. he is costing us valuable points, absolutely useless buy. Not only does he underperform, but also deters suarez's performance.
Indian Buzzer
Supporter (def): an adherent, follower, backer, or advocate. A person who backs a sports team, politician, etc
Fan (def): an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime, celebrity, etc.
Ray, you are an admirer of Liverpool (who can blame you) but that's where it ends.
cozinoz
I just dont understand the issue with Maxi. Surely he needs to play more when we are battling to score goals. He has a knack of being in the right place at the right time.
I agree with you 100%. its easy to get up for the chelseas of this world but when it comes to the bread and butter of the league we are lacking. we need a cutting edge to break sides down. Every side above us has this. Ko's
It's easy to say we should of bought him instead of him but you don't know if the player wanted to come ie mata. Also you never now if a player will settle in a team straight away it may take some time ie. Lucas.. Overall I'm happy with the kings buys ie. Luis, enrique, Adam etc. Let's just remember he has had to overall a lot changes at the club with injuries to key players.. Craig
Why is it at the end of every depressing post it says baie dankie ray? I get liverpool fans come from all over the world but please save your afrikaans for south africa
Much appreciated
It could be because Liverpool fans have never acted like this by coming online and slagging every player off after a defeat. Im not saying players would come on this site but a lot of them spend all day on the internet so imagine if they were to read redturks comments everyday, you really think that would make them improve their game? If you havnt got anything good to say about the team, dont say it. Try looking at some positives....Adam has been improving every game....Enrique has been excellent....Henderson looks to be gaining confidence and seems to be playing much better....Also compare Carroll to the start of the season and the pre season friendlies to how hes playing now? Downing hasnt been his best but some of the balls he has put it the box have been brilliant, and was unlucky not to score last night. All this tells me is the team is improving and the more the fans get behind the team instead of bitching about the players of internet rumours sites, the better we will be playing the more this team plays together. Dont forget you cant throw 6 new players into a team and expect instant results.
KOPBOB {Ed001's Note - actually, I personally don't think there is a problem with pointing out flaws, if you are giving a balanced assessment. But it seems that people just bitch and point out only the flaws, making no attempt to see how things can be improved or finding any good points. They are just looking for excuses to moan.}
Spot on ,if hodgson was in the same spot now we would be calling for his head but because it kk its ok because he his king,fans need to stop being so deluded and face fact liverpool are no longer a force,i get tired of seeing players in the paper saying we are going to win this cup and that game and when they get on the pitch they do nothing;im tired of not being in champions league,im tired of not winning the league.each season just gets worse. {Ed001's Note - it is not because of who he is, but because of the way we are playing that Kenny is getting backing. If you can't see that, then you clearly have no idea about how we are playing.}
06 Dec 2011 02:26:14
reina
kelly-skrtel-agger-enrique
adam henderson
downing-maxi/shelvey-bellamy
suarez
i am not telling this should be the team..just want opinions
Vanajam
06 Dec 2011 02:16:02
what on earth was that red card for?
Kaizer
A two footed studs up lunge on the follow through that almost broke Dembele's ankle.
Because the Fulham player fell over and might have hurt himself.
Iggypop
A leg breaking two footed tackle
06 Dec 2011 01:10:39
Everyone's so quick to blame Carroll, Spearing and Dalglish for the defeat... some even finding a way to blame Hendo... but we'd have got a point had it not been for Reina's mistake. Does this mean he should be dropped or sold? Of course not. Even the best make mistakes. If we had a decent ref we'd have won so lay off Kenny and the younger players.
Kieran.
What, do you mean a decent ref like you had at Everton? Liverpool whinger!
Basically you are blaming Reina then because we could have gotten a point if anyone had scored for us. I'm not gonna slate anyone for today's performance which was poor regardless of the ref.
Let us get things in perspective, Johnson should never have let Murphy get that shot away and Reina should not have spilled it. Despite that, we hit the woodwork twice and had a perfectly good Saurez goal dissallowed. What is more, the ref made some bizarre decisions: Spearing should never have been sent off; the Adam foul was a Pen; Senderos should have been off for persistant fouling. All in all, we lost but we should not have!
Keep the faith and support the team! Getting on there backs does no one any good.
Iggypop
Your moaning because we didnt get a point at fulham. there is lies the problem. the good teams go and get 3 points even when they are playing poor. we didnt do too bad last night but lacked a calm head in front of goal. kos
06 Dec 2011 01:07:45
Can we please have some last minute votes for Andy Carroll as sports personality of the year?
What a great player. How did King Kenny see his fantastic potential to make him the 13th most expensive footballer in world football transfers history? What a player and what an astute manager!
Can we also vote for King Kenny as coach of the year? If you can spend so much money, and achieve so little, he needs the ultimate recognition.
Also, its a close call between Tom Daley and Luis Suarez as diver of the year, but please vote Suarez! You know he's the best, although Tom Daley is a more natural goalscorer!
Slimmer of the year..Charlie Adam or Russell Grant? It has to be Russell as Charlie is still so fat!
Are you a Liverpool FC fan?
I seriously doubt.
LiverBird
06 Dec 2011 01:01:39
Andy carroll- I dont care nor judge a player on what he cost(35M) or what he is paid!.
I judge a player on their performance/pride when wearing our great shirt, sadly AC is out of his depth.
The sooner he is moved on the better for both parties.
Oz REd
Hey ed, any chance of carrol moving on in jan? he is no better than heskey, n a decent striker in his place wud give us a better chance of finishin 4th.
Indian Buzzer {Ed002's Note - I really don't know. If a good enough offer came in I suppose the club would consider it. But does Carroll want to leave?}
Football is poorer w/o great fans like you....
Your performance as a Liverpool fan has been exemplerary an top notch.......
Your whining is world class......What a fan you are "Oz Red"?
LiverBird
Wud we have to pay a large sum of money to carrol to terminate his contract? {Ed002's Note - Of course. It is never going to happen.}
06 Dec 2011 00:50:21
Disappointing again. I hoped that we would play a similar system to last season and use Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy and Suarez. I thought it was strange for Caroll to start and play Suarez and Bellamy off him it didn't really work.
Still we should have got a draw, frustratingly same problems again, poor finishing, woodwork again and sum poor decisions. Players played ok, Lucas was missed but we have to get on wit it. Thought Hendo played well and Agger and Enrique but we have to look at ourselves. We are the better sides in games and lose/draw ... and we aren't going to fiish top 4 unless we improve finishing and convert when we are on top.
On we go again
YNWA
D 2308
06 Dec 2011 00:29:55
No one is here slagging off carroll. It is just he is not good enough at the moment to deserve a starting line up. Yes we all support him and hope he starts doing good. Reading some post...I fell like we should have even kept Djimi Troare and keep telling he will come good.
05 Dec 2011 22:40:55
Ed 002, Seriously, You're a Chelsea FC supporter, just tell us what exactly do you think of Andy Carroll EVERYTIME you watch him play for us? Some of the people here are too scared to face it. They need someone to talk some sense into them. Kenny's not doing him any favours by making him play every week and making him look like a joke. He just doesn't have it in him. The lad must move on he has a good career ahead of him,if he plays for some other team, I'm sure. As much as I hate to say it, he just won't make it with us.
Furqan. {Ed002's Note - As in the words of Ed001, cute buns.}
Two years back fans made of the same stuff said the same thing about Lucas........
The problem is that fans like you are always at the tail end of the curve.....People like Rafa and Benitez are always ahead of the curve....
You are nothing but a fair weather fan......
LiverBird
By the time all these curves come and go what happens to players in between times
Do they get older, do they get injured?
If we keep waitiing on curves we will lament the next 20 years just like the past twenty years get real FFS mate
Its probably bcoz of the long wait of 20 years that you dont sign off your posts......
LiverBird
Rafa AND benitez mmmmm, it must of been benitez that tried to slag the red faced one, i dont think rafa is like that fact, bob paisleys skids
06 Dec 2011 00:12:06
If only this could be our team next game
Reina
Kelly Skrtel Agger Enrique
Kuyt Henderson Adam Maxi
Suarez Bellamy
Lol when did maxi turn into a good player he's been there years and done diddly
Pardoe
Well 10 goals in 9 games for a Midfielder tells me he;s done something...
Maxi is better than downing. FACT.
Yes, that would be my pick, although I'd probably stick with Johnson for the moment.
ND
06 Dec 2011 00:09:03
henderson has certainly upped his game. past few times ive seen him he's played well and looked confident; maybe people getting off his back will help him further his potential.
the lad can clearly play but having hoards of people criticise his every wrong doing isn't going to help.
charlie adam really impressing me lately as well, defo working harder and closing down players more than earlier in the season.
good performance tonight but if you dont stick the ball in the net, you dont win, simple as that
That a bit like 99% of all putts left short don't go in?
06 Dec 2011 00:05:06
If Spurs win their game in hand we will be 11 points behind them... we are going to need a massive effort from the players and fans to get back into the race for top 4 because were close to being out before Christmas...again.
We are not going to catch spurs
Have you seen them play?
They have a very good front line with strikers that can find the net.
In modric and parker two outstanding midfield players that are in top form
Bale is also playing really well
By compasion who can you pick out of our squad and say the same things about?
A couple of injuries and spurs could unravel. Arsenal won't play like this the whole season...still a long way to go
redkenyan