Liverpool Banter Archive April 06 2017

06 Apr 2017 19:46:29
Hi ed01 question if I may. How important do you think it is that we target 2 - 3 players with leadership and organisational qualities to sort out our defensive woes. We so badly need a centre back who can cope with his own game and organise and communicate with others. While we have excellent players ability wise only hendo is a leader and my opinion is it's a skill you can't coach. If I had to put u on the spot for an obtainable option for keeper centre back and mid to sort out issues once and for all who would they be. My personal worry listening to the sharkopod is that again we are targeting young potential technically gifted players but missing the quality that's currently holding us back.

{Ed001's Note - I think it is vital, we severely lack it, though I do also have the same fear that we are not targeting those type of players again. It is why I would like us to look at Gibson from Boro, not just a defender with ability, but he also has had to fight through the 'you are only being picked because your uncle is chairman' taunts to earn his place by right and become captain of the club. I have not seen a keeper with real organisational capabilities in years, Buffon is probably the last left. As for mid, I would have no problem with Obiang, I think he is better than people on here realise. It is telling that West Ham's collapse came when he went out injured.}

06 Apr 2017 20:54:33
I would love Gibson, too Ed. The guy is class. has pace, power, passing ability and clearly plays with a chip on his shoulder as you have described. he's capt. for a reason and NOT cos his uncle owns the club. He's a leader and we should really go after him.

06 Apr 2017 21:34:25
I will have to politely disagree with you Ed001. I don't see Gibson and Obiang drastically improving our defensive issues, when they will be replacements for, when everyone is fit, Lovren and Henderson. In the squad, they will replaces I suspect Klavan and Lucas, which does not seem like an improvement to me either.

I think we need to spend money (I know we have in the past with poor results but Klopp is the manager now and he needs to be backed), and bring in the players that will push Lovren/ Matip and Henderson/ Wijnaldum/ Lallana.

{Ed001's Note - you really don't think Gibson is an improvement on Klavan? You clearly are either deluded, as Klavan is dreadful, or have never seen Gibson play. Or are one of those who judges a player by the team they play for. Gibson is light years ahead of Klavan, looks better than Lovren by a long way as well, though it would be impossible to be sure until he was in the same kind of team.

As for Obiang, why on earth are you on about Lucas and Henderson? Shows why no one rates him on here, they haven't a clue what position he plays even! He is not going to sit deep and hold in front of a back four.}

06 Apr 2017 23:10:12
Is anyone looking at Gibson ed.

{Ed001's Note - yes, half the Prem are looking to snatch him when Boro go down. A couple of teams in Spain, including Atletico have had him watched as well this season.}

07 Apr 2017 04:13:35
Better than the overrated VVD.

07 Apr 2017 05:15:25
I agree with you that Gibson is an improvement on Klavan, but I don't think he is an improvement on Lovren. While Gibson maybe an improvement, I don't think he is at a level to push Lovren out of the team. I disagree with N Red that VVD is overrated; I think he is an excellent defender and would be a good partner for Matip and his style of play. I don't rate Klavan either, and I think he is a distinctly average defender too.

Obiang, I don't see him as anywhere near good enough to displace Wijnaldum or Lallana. I wrote Henderson because I am concerned about his injury issues, and with Emre Can seemingly expected to sign a deal and stay, if Obiang were to come in, I don't see him as any better than any of Henderson, Can, Lallana or Wijnaldum, wherever he plays in the 3 in midfield. I think a defensive midfielder should be our priority if Can stays as expected, and Lucas and Stewart leave as expected in large due to Henderson's injury issue.

As for calling me deluded, was it really needed? I have been respectful in my reply and I find it disappointing that we cannot go forth without resorting such that sort of language.

{Ed001's Note - that sort of language? Seriously? If you think that's bad what the hell are you doing on a banter page? It might not be the best place for you!

I really can't be bothered with the rest, it is pointless as you are not even reading what you are replying to and talking about completely different things.}

07 Apr 2017 05:17:49
Ed1 - on the subject of keepers with organisational ability. Do you have any thoughts on Alex Meret as Im hearing he is developing into a very promising keeper-good on crosses and on organising according to my Italian friends. I don't watch SerieA so no idea if they are pulling my leg or not.

{Ed001's Note - no idea, never seen him play, sorry.}

07 Apr 2017 05:41:38
Also I don't watch West Ham so no idea of Obiang. But if he can add some organisation and steel to our players then Im interested. What sort of midfield role does he tend to play for them?

{Ed001's Note - he is very similar to N'Zonzi at Sevilla, to a degree Kante at Chelsea too, though he is more inclined to hold position than Kante, as he doesn't have that kind of energy. He gets around the pitch breaking up play and getting it moving. He likes to break into the box, though he has not had as many chances to do so at the Hammers as he would like.

He is a destructive player who can also play. Exactly what you need to face up to the lower half teams as he doesn't let up. He gets out there and does his thing no matter who he is facing. While it is not all about him, it has been clear that his loss has had a massive impact on West Ham's form, as he was the one player in their team giving 100% every game.

That is exactly what we miss. Exactly what we need. Players to turn up every week regardless of having bad days or the opponent being weaker or they have turned on the manager etc. West Ham players have pretty much mentally downed tools, yet he was still there giving his all, while all around him had folded. Attitude is vital and he has the right attitude.}

07 Apr 2017 05:56:30
I like the idea that he puts in 100% no matter what. Its my biggest bugbear with the side atm - someone who won't tolerate a dropping of standards. How would you see him fitting into our midfield? Replace Lallana?

{Ed001's Note - it's not like that. You don't bring in players to replace one other player, you bring them in to change the team around. We have a good eleven now to face the top sides, but we have nothing to change it around to face other teams or to rest players or to cover for injuries, or just general tactical tweaks. Obiang is someone that can provide that different option. If he plays well enough then it becomes others having to fight to get his place off him.

With Hendo having long term injury problems, which are likely to always be an issue, we need more quality and fight in our midfield, he would bring that and allow us to play without a deep lying midfielder at times. He can also come in to help see out results or when we face those teams we struggle against.}

07 Apr 2017 07:17:00
Lovren and Migs are 2 peas from the same pod.
They both lack confidence under pressure.
They both have a string of decent games followed by an absolute howler.
They are consistently inconsistent. You can't rely on those players when the chips are down.
I don't know a lot about Gibson but we WILL have to spend significant money to get him.

{Ed002's Note - In answer to an earlier question about Alex Meret, your friends are correct Phil that Meret is looking like he is going to be very good and the eventual challenger to Gianluigi Donnarumma as the next long term first pick for the Italian International side. Try the search engine as I have answered about him before.}

07 Apr 2017 07:22:27
ed001 - I love your thoughts on what we need, completely agree. I have not listened to the Sharkopod but are we looking for similar types of players to what you have identified that we need, just not the ones you have suggested (Gibson and Obiang) or are we looking at strengthening other areas? Love the idea of an Obiang. We are good enough to beat the lower teams so it's purely attitudinal it seems as the problem.

{Ed001's Note - we have certainly shown interest in those two, which is why I chose them, as the original question asked about possibles, rather than just me to randomly pick out names. However, we are not, as things stand, looking to bring in a centre back, so I would not expect Gibson. Certainly, if things do change and we go for one, he would be very attainable as Boro would let him leave if/when relegation happens.

Obiang is very much a potential signing. We were looking at him before his injury and interested in adding him to the squad. Whether or not the injury has changed anything is something I have no idea about though. If West Ham were to go down, there will need to be something of a firesale there as they have a completely unsustainable wage bill for the Championship.}

07 Apr 2017 09:17:28
Ed1 if you don't mind as you mentioned him what do you think of the development of nzonzi? He's turned into one of the most underrated midfielder in Europe for me. He still has a few moments of rashness and loses composure a bit but I think he has really matured into a fine midfielder at Seville!

{Ed001's Note - I liked him a lot at Stoke to be honest, I always thought he was better than given credit for. Another of those that looks awkward so people undervalue what he does.}

07 Apr 2017 09:50:56
Only Klavan is worse than Lovren in the league IMO. Just like any GK, any defender is an improvement on our current ones.

07 Apr 2017 09:54:42
To bring one defender into the first team we need to move one out. Lovren is on talks over a new contact and I can't see Klavan moving out in the summer. So how would
we bring someone in. We might need to push aside Gomez for another warming the bench role / U 23 to bring in an additional defender.

07 Apr 2017 10:41:16
Fair play, that's one of the most interesting threads I've read on here for a while. Not seen much of either but they do sound like exactly what we need. Such a shame about Henderson with his injuries, he's such an important player for us.

07 Apr 2017 10:57:22
I'd love us to sign oriol Romeu from saints to add some metal to our midfield. Seems to have a brilliant attitude and turns up every time I've seen him play. Would love Ake from Chelsea too, two players that would really make a difference in my opinion. As for our goalkeeper situation, Migs isn't the answer long term, we all know that. karius deserves a fresh start next season, get a good pre season under his belt and he starts the league campaign! We will only know if he's good enough if he's given a fair shot at things.

07 Apr 2017 10:59:35
Hey ed01, do you know if we are looking at other players in the Obiang mould? Naby Keita was mentioned by the mainstream media, though as a "probably too had to obtain" - but this does show we are after such a type of midfielder.

{Ed001's Note - I don't know for sure, we are looking for other midfielders but not ones I have seen play, so wouldn't know if they are in that mould.}

07 Apr 2017 11:25:28
OK ed, mucho gracias! I think an additional midfielder will be useful considering that we will be competing in Europe, though I do hope to see more of Grujic next season.

07 Apr 2017 16:04:24
Ed, you should read the This is Anfield comments box about a potential transfer for Gibson and you will see how completely ignorant some of our fans are about players. They were slating him and FSG for buying a player from relegation fodder. I can bet you they have NEVER seen him play but cos he's from Boro, he must be useless. Utter nonsense! There are many fans like that even on this forum. As for AG saying Klavan is better than Gibson, you have lost all credibility to talk about players' ability or transfers on this forum.

07 Apr 2017 16:57:02
N Red, read what I said instead of making stories up. The one who is losing credibility is you as you seemingly cannot comprehend; I made it clear that I don't rate Klavan and that I agree that Gibson is an improvement on him.

And I have seen Gibson play enough times, not regularly, but enough to have an opinion of him, and certainly don't have a myopic view about players from clubs in a lower position as you so blatantly assume.

07 Apr 2017 17:16:59
Hi ed01 what do u think of Pickford for gk and Keane as cb would they have the charachtaristics we need. I would be shocked if we didn't add a cb considering our ongoing problems. I think Lucas and sakho will leave and Gomez should be allowed to leave on loan to the championship where he can play regularly as a first choice and develop. This would then relegate klavan to 4th choice and allow the other 2 to rotate with the extra games. Would love us to add that destroyer to our midfield as currently the players we have are very energetic but none of them are agressive. Ndidi and Kante are 2 best in Prem and keita looks good but unattainable as he scores goals as well.

{Ed001's Note - in the future Pickford, yes, but right now he does not look ready to me. He still makes too many silly mistakes, he is not the greatest at organising or with the ball at his feet. What he is, mainly, is an excellent shotstopper.

Keane is ok, but he plays on the right side and is very similar to Matip, when we require a left sided defender who is more aggressive.

What makes you claim Ndidi is one of the best in the Prem? He has played ten league games since joining in January, it is far too soon to judge him.}

07 Apr 2017 17:37:07
I've only seen Gibson play a couple of times and to be honest I've liked what I've seen and I don't buy into the idea that we shouldn't get players from relegated teams.
My one worry would be that Gibson is clearly a leader in that team and has had to put up with the Uncle jibes that I assume he's had aimed at him. If he were to leave Boro, would he be the same, driven player trying to prove everyone wrong?
Feel free to tell me if you think my point is nonsense, just throwing it out there!

{Ed001's Note - that is a good point. It could go either way, sometimes though, as in Frank Lampard's case, it does a player good to get away and make a fresh start. Especially as he would have to prove himself all over again.}

07 Apr 2017 19:52:20
AG, That is what you implied so I responded to it as such. Clearly i wasn't the only one cos Ed responded as such as well. Maybe you should do a better job of making yourself clearer, eh?

As for comparing you to the other fans who don't watch player, I did no such theing as I was referring to fans who post on the This Anfield site and nowhere did I mention you in there bar the Klavan/ Gibson comparison. So take a chill pill and have a nice day.

07 Apr 2017 19:53:20
And he should not have a prob proving himself as he's been proving himself at Boro for years due to his status as the owner's nephew.

07 Apr 2017 22:00:22
N Red, fair enough. I apologize if I didn't make myself clear.

06 Apr 2017 12:04:51
Please Eds,

Can you cheer me up with some exciting/ positive rumors after yesterday's game.

Thanks in advance,

A Swedish red.

06 Apr 2017 13:47:51
A CB has to leave before a CB is brought in, per Ed02.

06 Apr 2017 14:02:40
I don't care what anybody says, Harry you are the most positive person on this website! Not even Ron can match this level of optimism. We are all just the so called fans trying to get behind our team, while you really show the way, getting behind the team really means doubting everything the team does, not enjoying the good phases but being the first to criticize the bad one. You sir, have opened my eyes.

06 Apr 2017 14:05:49
2 cbs should be leaving and 2 brought in.

06 Apr 2017 14:58:55
BRAVO, Waqas! I see what you did there.

06 Apr 2017 14:56:33
There is a rumour going around that we are 3rd in the league with the rest of our rivals still having to play each other.

06 Apr 2017 14:51:14
Waqas
There are obvious bad ones in the squad and you need to move them, cut the mistakes and work on something that will get the best out of them or the ones around. If not me someone else's would point out the mistakes. There exist a world outside this website and its running riot at Klopp and company for yesterday's two drop points.
I was one of the few who wanted to keep Coutinho at the club where the entire website was willing to take £X money for him.

06 Apr 2017 15:35:41
I actually said your way is the right way! and you are still not happy!

06 Apr 2017 18:31:05
Whatever that world is that is running riot against Klopp for drawing vs B'mouth while forgetting that we are THIRD in the PL ahead of City, Utd and Arsenal (teams who spent MORE than us in the PL and took 12 points off of), is a world I don't want to be in and you need to get out of that world ASAP, Harry or you will go mad like those who live in it.

06 Apr 2017 19:46:11
We have to look forward now and go for it, but its still mad that we have conceded more goals than Middlesburough .

06 Apr 2017 19:27:20
N Red! you've gots to stop spreading fake news!

06 Apr 2017 09:49:01
Yes last night's result was poor, however it felt different from the tired performances in 'dry January'. We didn't actually miss Mane too much as we scored 2 and with a bit more luck and quality in front of goal could have had 4. We conceded 2 goals from individual errors.
Think about where we are now compared to the last couple of seasons, where Champions' League football seemed like a distant dream. It's in our own hands against teams that we should beat. If we blow it, we don't deserve to be in the Champions' League.
Some of the negativity on here is way OTT.
Look at the positives and trust in Klopp!

06 Apr 2017 11:05:21
Problem is mate we concede goals from individual errors far too often. How many times this season has an individual cocked something up and an opponent taken the gift. You can only do it so many times before questions are asked - the defence has been poor for a number of seasons now and has still not been addressed and I fear, if is remains neglected, that it will be our downfall in seasons to come.

As various Ed's have already reported as well we ain't looking at bringing in a centre back this summer - it is a worry.

{Ed001's Note - the defence is not poor, it is complacency that is the issue. That is why we have such an excellent defensive record against the top sides, and Everton, but a terrible one against the lower half sides. We aren't getting cut to pieces against the lower half teams, we are just not mentally focused. Though that is a difficult issue to solve.}

06 Apr 2017 11:34:48
I know what you mean Ed and I agree that complacency has been our biggest issue this season. In my eyes concentration is just one aspect of defending - if players aren't concentrating properly then in my eyes it is a defensive weakness. If the current players are unable to maintain their concentration against lesser teams then I'm not sure they are really the answer/ good enough for us - it has cost us far too many goals this season for it to be ignored in my opinion and is something we have witnessed since the first game of the season - it has obviously not been coached out of the players so, in my view, there needs to be personnel changes. In your opinion Ed, if we don't change personnel, how else can this concentration issue be fixed?

{Ed001's Note - change in preparation for starters. More focus on showing the mistakes made and emphasising them. Mainly though, we need, as I said in my match preview on the others page, to change our tactical approach at the start of the game. Stop them being able to put pressure on us deep, which leads to errors when the focus slips.}

06 Apr 2017 11:49:16
Interesting response Ed particularly about how we start games as that seems to be when we suffer from a lot of mental lapses. Let's hope the coaching/ management staff address it and soon. Is the worry, as this has been going on all season, that the coaching staff simply don't see it/ are not actively trying to fix it? Or are they trying and it is simply taking time?

{Ed001's Note - the worry is that they see it but what they are doing is not working.}

06 Apr 2017 12:09:50
Interesting that ed and I have to agree, migs doing cryuff turns in the first 15 mins is only going to invite pressure on us and give the opposition a bit of belief that they can grab a result against us and our seemingly careless defence, I would much rather see us go out all guns blazing and shock the opposition from the word go, even if you don't grab an early goal it at least says to the opposition your strikers mean business and puts a bit of doubt in their minds about getting a result rather than showing them very early on that our defence is careless and prone to mistakes.

06 Apr 2017 12:15:03
excellent comments eds but id like to add that the best defences that play together all the time constant so they learn to trust and make up for each others deficiencies also they have a leader/ organiser sometimes two in cases where there is a really strong authoritative keeper. Our defence don't know each other well enough through injuries and since they don't play with each other competitively enough they also are more worried which puts them on the back foot mentally not truly concentrating on job at hand.

{Ed001's Note - that was another point I made in the match review, Matip and Lovren have to play together at every opportunity. Matip was fit enough to be on the bench and should have started. If the injury forced him off, so be it, but we need him in the team working with Lovren on their partnership. We will probably end up having to replace both at this rate, as neither can stay fit.}

06 Apr 2017 13:17:55
The back 4 need a mental shake up due to complacency. Any ball whipped into our 6 yard box has a high chance of a goal being conceded.

06 Apr 2017 13:57:26
My personal opinion on this is Kings terrible start for the 1st 10 mins and it's not the only time it has happened. It's as if when he has a bad start with ball control the defence says in their heads.

Oh crap!

06 Apr 2017 14:09:49
Spot on, Ed. We lack focus in critical defensive situations due to mental lapses and complacency. This leads to miscommunication and lack of awareness especially during set pieces as some of the goals we concede, players just start looking at each other as to who had who. Same with yesterday.

Sloppy passing all round led to Wij's error then the goal. On the second goal, Klavan lacks steel and mental toughness in the challenge, bottles it and they score. Our defense is not crap as NO team can cut us open, not even the bigger teams. Almost all our goals are conceded through complacency, lack of concentration and lack of focus. That as Ed said, may be more difficult to solve and you can't do that by throwing money at it.

{Ed001's Note - Klavan doesn't bottle the goal, he is looking up in the air for the ball for some unknown reason,}

05 Apr 2017 21:02:48
Ed02, I remember reading in one of your pices on improving Liverpool, you saying something about needing to end the kit deal with New Balance. I was just wondering why this is? From the outside all seems fine. Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool could do better with one of the bigger players, Nike or Adidas.}

06 Apr 2017 11:10:30
Adidas would be good. Always wondered why did we go for New Balance.

06 Apr 2017 12:50:28
Liverpool and Adidas is what I remember being a young whipper snapper. I'd like us to go back to Adidas strips.

Baz.

06 Apr 2017 14:36:45
one of our best shirts was an Adidas .

06 Apr 2017 16:07:27
Have we ever been Nike? Wouldn't mind seeing what that would be like even though I'd prefer adidas. New balance is unique though, about the only positive I could say about that.

{Ed002's Note - In what way is New Balance unique. They are simply a small player in the market.}

07 Apr 2017 12:33:40
Exactly how would it make a difference? I can't find the "improving Liverpool" post that Zaappp mentions.

I'm guessing having Nike/ Adidas would boost shirt sales and help with international branding, right? Would it also have any impact on attracting players associated it those brands? Sorry for my lack of knowledge. It's really not an area I know much about.

Cheers.

{Ed002's Note - Much higher income from the shirt deal from a higher profile sponsor who can help the club in other ways.}

09 Apr 2017 06:01:19
Didn't Adidas choose not to renew with us because we missed out on CL for long time?

{Ed002's Note - Yes, at the time the club was not a regular at the highest level of the game. There is nothing wrong with the club saying they would like the option to talk again particularly after Adidas were dumped by Chelsea.}