Liverpool Banter Archive September 05 2013

05 Sep 2013 22:51:42
I agree with you Lifelongred but the reality is he may sit on the bench for a few games but eventually he will be back in the first 11 because he's the best attacking player we have.

Benny it's going to be an interesting few months, especially if we keep winning because at the minute all 3 midfield players are undropable in my opinion. Just because of the energy and balance they bring to the team. But then On the flip side Moses and Aspas have strong claims to be in the first 11.

Don't talk soft.
The 2nd half of the Utd match showed why Suarez will, and should, walk straight back in to the side.
There was no outball. Aspas, for all his good running, is too lightweight.
He needs about a stone and a half of muscle on him.
The ball was coming right back and we got pinned back.
You could have Coutinho, Suarez, Sturridge as front three. Or Moses, Suarez, Sturridge with Coutinho dropping into central midefield depending on the opposition.
But Suarez, providing he's fit and able, will go back in to the team.

05 Sep 2013 23:49:29
Don't be ignorant, when we played the Mancs with Suarez Twice last season, we did loose both times and he didn't do jack! Gerrard & Sturridge scored the goals.
Suarez should earn his starting place after this summer's shambles!

Spot on juicer, most united fans kept saying we were there for the taking, but to me the game went according to plan score early and play on the break we just couldn't do that.if we had suarez we could have scored 3goals
No offense sturridge isn't anywhere close to suarez quality we need him asap.

Sorry that post was meant to carry on from thread below.

I'm not being 'soft'! The reality is since Suarez hasn't been in the side we haven't lost and to top that off he's acted like a complete cnut all summer. So yeah I don't think he should just wander back in the side.

We'll see how it pans out but it shows how far we've come in the last 12months because 12 months ago Suarez and Gerrard were the only two players we had and thoughts of dropping them would have put you in the 'insane' category!

Don't be soft the juicer
Did we not have our highest scoring games without him last season?
So far we have beat Man U, beat Aston villa who thrashed arsenal and should have beat Chelsea if not for a dodgy ref, we also beat stoke who last year with Suarez we couldn't do.
Suarez is a class player and I've no doubt he will play and score goals, but when he plays we do become one dimensional, he needs start passing more and stop wasting all the shots.
You say Sturidge isn't as good, the lad ran his socks off, scored our goal and defended really well against Man U, all while injured.
Give aspas a chance he only been here for 3 games

06 Sep 2013 08:35:30
In my honest opinion, Sturridge is twice the player Suarex is. He is much faster, much better finishing and dribbling skills. SUAREZ can go do one for all I care. I support Liverpool and NOT SUAREX, specially when we are doing much better without him, there is absolutely no logic that we would have done better in any of our games with him. I really hope BR has the cahonas to bench the DF.

Sturridge is the best goal scorer we have and suarez is the best player we have. I wouldn't swap them two for anyone in the league.

Suarez is an insanely good player but not a team player. He can produce a bit of magic and win games on his own but when he doesn't do that he ends up a bit of a liability - he doesn't pass enough, tries shots from anywhere, etc. An unselfish Suarez would be the best player we have

Lifelongred,
I suggested that it would be Aspas who would make way for Suarez, not Sturridge.

I don't know where you get this Suarez is not a team player from.
For the large part of his Liverpool career he's been upfront either on his own, or with no support, so of course he's had to fashion out a lot of his own chances.
But the matches I've seen (barring Southampton away), he's come off the pitch barely able to walk, he was so knackered.

I'm not saying he doesn't put a shift in, Juicer, he certainly does. I just meant he's quick to go for glory when a pass would have been better, or try to dribble when there are men free. But, to be fair, he had also been part of a number of glorious team goals last season it's just that occasionally his decision making favours Suarez rather than the team (on and off the pitch)

The juicer
My mistake about aspas
I'd still rather give him a chance, Suarez gives all for the team, no denying that, but he is also a liability when his bits of magic fail, we as a team are one dimensional, many times last season he'd take on players or take on a shot as he thought He was the best option when clearly he wasn't, this wasted a lot of chances for us last season, chances that if passed on to better placed players could have turned drawn games into wins. With him doing this it seems like when he has the chances he doesn't think the rest of the team are good enough for him to trust to finish the move so he keeps it himself, plus the fact he has acted like he thinks he is bigger than LFC and all of the other players proves he is not a team player.

As good as everyone makes Suarez out to be, he definitely can still improve. His finishing and getting his head up to make a pass. If he had an extra yard of pace I would put in the top 5 in the world category.

Suarez is the BEST at what Suarez does. Every team needs a player like that who can turn games w/ one dribble, shake or swerve. And BTW, He is darn right deadly from dead-ball situations.

05 Sep 2013 20:59:02
Ed002, how highly rated is Rodrigo from Benfica? And who holds an interest in him? Would love a reply. Cheers. {Ed002's Note - Atletico Madrid have shown an interest in Rodrigo since the winter, but for now anything else is speculation. Juventus dropped what interest they had.}

05 Sep 2013 19:06:23
Seeing as my topics of brendans new contract, and should sakho replace agger, went down so well. I bring another topic to be discussed.
Are people aware we actually don't select a CAM? LL SG JH play pretty much a straight line. in a 433. this leaves 2 wingers and a striker. JH occasionally goes forward into that whole, but normally its coutinho tucking in from wide. both wingers infact tend to tuck in, leaving SG to back up LB and JH to back up RB whilst LL bosses the middle.

my debate is, do we bring suarez in for either aspas, and carry on with DS as CF and PC+LS played as tucked in wingers. Or do we do we drop one of LL SG JH, to play LS in an advanced position, behind DS, and keep the 2 wingers in CP and IA.
Discuss! x

Easy bring in Suarez for Aspas until the former loses his head and earns another ban and then put Aspas back in

I'm no tactical genius, but I would disagree with most of what you say about the way the team is set up. I also think that BR would as well, or why else would he describe Coutinho as an ideal no 10. It seems to me that he plays with either 2 deeper lying midfielders - normally Gerrard and Lucas, and Henderson more advanced, but essentially allowing Gerrard to play further forwards at times, with just Lucas as the DM. I can't really ever remember the 3 midfielders playing in a line across the pitch tbh.

Jordan Henderson started against United on the right wing.

Forgetting tactics and which positions they occupy, as its almost irrelevant because of the movement anyway. But if you drop Henderson your dropping the most inform player which doesn't seem right to me. I think it has to be Aspas dropped which is a shame too because he's looked full of beans!

Rodgers divides the pitch into zones that don't necessarily correspond with fixed assumptions about 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. In my view, with the players he has recruited, we may well see something like this.

Mignolet in goal
Toure, Agger & Sakho as a back three with Agger as the spare man.
The full backs pushed well forward
Lucas as DM with Gerrard slightly more advanced. Suarez & Coutinho operating behind Sturridge but with the freedom to roam and defensive responsibilities restricted to dropping into midfield and pressing defenders. If in need of goals the full backs can be replaced with wide attackers. A CB can drop out and revert to 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. Without the ball defending a lead we have played 4-4-1-1 in large parts of last 2 games. Rodgers has shown he is flexible and pragmatic.

Nick you're wrong. Ollie you're right. however due to being penned back, Henderson was in line with steve and lucas. Nick, its the basics of the 433 we are playing. because the 2 wingers cut in so much, and stay high. the players either side of the cdm, must cover full backs. i'm guessing you haven't watched a game this season? not only do the front 3 swap about, but the middle 3 do too, hendo is normally the one making movements forward, but gerrard does a few a game too.

Henderson is given the freedom to play further up the pitch and Aspas and Countinho are not wingers. Gerrard and Lucas play deeper and protect the back 4.

Midfield 3 of Gerrard Lucas and Couthino with Lucas sitting, Gerrard going wherever he likes and Coutinho advanced behind a front three of Suarez, Sturridge and Moses.

Does no one else think Suarez should get a skelf in his arse sitting on the bench - until he learns some manners?

Besides, what happened to the old adage about not changing a winning team?

Personally, I'd stick with the current 11 and then give Sterling, Ibe, Alberto and Moses all a shot up front before I'd consider Suarez again.

He is not indispensable. He is not bigger than the club. He can get 5/10 minutes here and there until Brendan decides otherwise.

Thanks, Hx.

Chris in tamworth, you've hit the nail on the head.
I too believe couts will be classed as one of the midfielders.
SG LL
PC
then your front three.

There are a few sites out there that show average player position on the pitch that are probably worth a look.

Generically speaking, in the first three games, we've had Aspas slightly behind Sturridge, Henderson generally wider right, Coutinho a tad behind and just to the left of Sturridge/Aspas.

Enrique tends to be more or less by himself in sort of the mid-left position, Johnson is pushed by pretty high right behind Henderson, and Agger/Skrtel/Toure/Gerrard/Lucas are probably about where you would expect them to be.

The other interesting aspect is that versus Stoke, on average we had 6 players in their side of the pitch, versus Villa only 4, and versus United only 3. Hoping to see that trend change against Swansea.

Without getting arsey Benny, you're wrong. Irish Rover is right. And we also don't play with wingers.

How am I wrong nick?
" because the 2 wingers cut in so much, and stay high"
I use the term winger, because what else would you label them? RAM LAM? AKA winger

I think the fact no one can agree is part of why our team is starting to play well and turn our games into higher points.
Our formation starts as a 4 3 3, but our team is so fluid on the pitch, wheyou watch the game you can see Lucas sits back rarely going too far forward, Gerard and Henderson are more flexible dropping back to help out and going forward for options, our front three interchange constantly from wings drifting inside, sturridge drifts out wide all our players give each other options going forward,
When defending our formation drops back to 433, and against stiffer opponents Henderson seems to play wide right to help cover when Johnson goes forward.
So I wouldn't worry so much about our formation, we have a very quick and fluid attack giving us options all over with players that can adapt to more than one position.

It is true what Chris is saying is where Rodgers wants to play Cout but it is also a bit risky against better teams especially if we are under pressure like we were last Sunday. If we are chasing a game then Cout is the man for me but if you are looking for for workrate and industry then I would nail my hat on Hendo but isn't it nice to have the dilema? So much better than the first 11 picking itself in myopinion. Cheers

Anyone else think aspas might keep moses out from the team?

06 Sep 2013 09:42:30
Well from the games we have played so far, Aspas has played the nr. 10 role, coutinho has played as a false left winger who cuts inside and Henderson has been playing as a defensive wide midfielder. Gerrard is protecting the back 4 with Lucas. So on paper we have been playing 4-2-3-1 but I think Aspas will sit on the bench for Suarez.

Suarez, Coutinho, Henderson with Sturridge upfront.
Moses, Alberto, Sterling with Aspas upfront as their Backup/ Rotation options.

I think the above comments show that we don't actually play with any set formation! We have a list of names spread out in a 433 shown to us by pundits. However BR has said it time and again, LFC are aiming to be fluid in their play.I think the team is spplit into defense and attack. The players in the team have an area of responsibilty however throughout the play you may see for instance Coutinho in a traditional wingers role, then 10 minutes later he is in central midfield. 10 minutes after that he is in a traditional number 10 role up behing Sturridge. BR's philosophy seems to be having technically gifted players who will play a number of positions in every game. Using this philosophy means it is nearly impossible to tag the team with a traditional formation like 442 or 433. I think Kidder has pretty much nailed it above!

05 Sep 2013 18:32:11
Does anyone think that we have loaned players out so that they can be sold later on when we need the extra cash to make purchases under FFP rules? Thoughts? {Ed002's Note - The approach taken by another club is to buy players now, and send them out on loan so they do not need to buy later. That is far more likely.}

The loans are all different. Reina is to replace with younger guy, get wages off LFC and ensure higher value for sale next summer. I believe Coates would have been loaned to get his value up (it's plummeted) and Assaidi is similar ( he does well in Prem we can sell him to a Prem club that will pay decent fee and match wages unlike Dutch & Belgian clubs). Borini, Suso, Robinson & Wisdom (January) are loans to develop plyers we would hope have big futures at the club. Others like Ngoo, Adorjan etc are to put in shop window and attract low fees that can be effectively reinvested in the Academy. Very few players in most Academy's are ever good enough for the first XI at a top PL side.

06 Sep 2013 08:55:16
You're right Kidder, but I feel we are putting Borini in the shop window though. F.eks, we wanted no money or wages covered for Suso's loan. We only wanted guarantees over his playing time. Borini, well we demanded £1, 5 million loan fee. And Sunderland pay his whole wages and on top of that they do have Fletcher & Altidore. So hopefully he pushes them out of the team.
Assaidi's loan is actually very good for us. If you watch his highlights he is easily a £ 10 million player. If we sold him this summer we would have got 2-3 million � tops.

05 Sep 2013 17:09:29
Eds and reds,

Liverpool are lining up a move for free agent goalkeeper Antonio Adan. The Spaniard rescinded his contract with Real Madrid on transfer deadline day, and is currently on the lookout for a new club.
Rodgers has long admired the 26-year-old, and could now swoop in with a contract offer.

Any truth in this? {Ed002's Note - I don't know but I would expect him to look for a club where he would play.}

So Ed002, you are saying he should try to engineer a move to Arsenal?

05 Sep 2013 16:09:22
Sturridge confirmed out of Moldova game. Will be reassessed before Ukrane match. Good to see England not pushing him into a long term injury by overplaying him. The Notts County game is still haunting us - next time no taking the foot off the pedal, we need to kill these matches off.

05 Sep 2013 15:24:42
Liverpool has conceded just 3 goals in last 10 league matches 2 against Chelsea in 2-2 draw and 1-3 win against Fulham.

We dumped United's away record out of the window as well. :)

05 Sep 2013 15:09:13
Just want to wish every Liverpool luck on the international stage I just hope there are no injuries

05 Sep 2013 11:27:06
Great article on ssn about jon Flanagan by Johnny Phillips. You guys need to check it ou

Just read it took me a while to find it homgrown something the title but yes a good read I hope he breaks into the firsr team eventually as the article says after stevie goeswe will have no Liverpool lads Iin the first team here's hoping a few can break through and be first team regulars

05 Sep 2013 10:43:56
Moses given number 12, Sakho 17, and Ilori has 26.

05 Sep 2013 09:31:56
LFC RELATED
The whole Moyes inquest is hysterical.
WHICH SELF RESPECTING SUPER STAR WANTS TO PLAY FOR MOYES?
This highlights a bit of the difference between Liverpool and Man Utd.
LIVERPOOL IS GREAT, where as Fergie was great, not Man Utd.
LFC had dynasties, Shanks, paisley, fagan, dalglish, even the minor successes of Benitez, houlier etc.
The greatness of out club was not due to one person, and that is what makes LFC timeless.
The Manchester United fanbase will deminish substantially as they couldn't distinguish whether they were Manchester United Supporters, or Fergie Supporters and now suddenly, they will soon discover that they were actually Fergie supporters all along and that they got to find themselves another team to support.
THIS IS WHAT SETS A LIVERPOOL FAN APART FROM A Manchester United FAN. Managers come and go but the greatness of the CLUB will always remain.
YNWA

05 Sep 2013 10:17:59
Villa were ahead of us before we beat 'em :P

You are unfortunately deluded. And I'm a lifelong Liverpool supporter. One of the reasons our rivalry has intensified in recent years is because we're both great clubs rich in history and success.
I can't stand united any more than any LFC fan but you sound bitter, one-eyed and ignorant if you seriously believe what you wrote, pirate

05 Sep 2013 10:25:50
Morning pirate, your direction is both your posts shall we say is very blinkered and wrong regardless of its good intentions! You have contradicted yourself on a couple of points! In a possitive not we have started well! Which is important as when the north london clubs arsenal and spurs get into gear they could be hard to stop? Obviously along with city and chelsea as well! Its not a dig but I can possibly see united struggling this term? So its immportant we try to keep this run going? I've already heard the stupid 'were going to win the league' quotes lol

Matt Busby? Bobby Charlton, George Best etc etc? They won the European Cup before us and were the most famous team on the planet. They happen to be the most famous team in the country, but we just happen to be the greatest :)

Man Utd are a great club, always were always will be. Again this from a lifelong Lfc supporter. Also I would not write them or Moyes off yet, Fergie is a canny old fox, there is a reason he will have favoured Moyes as a successor.

05 Sep 2013 12:28:15
Pirate, teams like LFC and United are a rare breed nowadays. We embrace the local culture and have serious history in English football. We are the two most passionately supported teams in the country. You don't have to like them, but you do have to respect what they are; which is a great club. We have both always stuck to a british/local core to the team, and have always had inspirational managers. Most of our success actually came in the Shankly/Paisley era. They made the already great club into something truly legendary, just like Fergie did.

The only thing I do agree with you on, is how many 'supporters' they will lose. United fans are as fickle as they come, and I suspect at least 30-40% of their fan base are the modern day 'glory supporters'. The sad fact is, kids nowadays just support whoever is winning or has the best players, which for the last 20 years has been United. I agree with your sentiments, as we are a better club ;) but for different reasons to those you have given!

YNWAdam

The reason why Fergie appointed Moyes as his successor is to make himself look even better. Just like the old Roman emperors (especially the ones with the biggest ego's, like old whisky nose!), they always made sure that their successor was a flake. As you say, he is a canny old fox, but a canny old megalomaniac fox. I am in no doubt that Utd will be playing for 4th this season. They will still be a good team, but they won't have that same ability to pull a win out of nowhere that they had before.

Don't think united will be half the team without fergie, just think of how many times he won games an did nt even kick a ball .

One very important point to note is that referees are not scared of Moyes, as they were with Ferguson. If one gave a bad decision against United, it would be a long time before they reffed Utd again and they were worried about their careers because of the influence he had with the powers-that-be.

That's why United usually got 50 - 50 decisions, as it was less hassle for the ref at the end of the game. They won so many games with this, just think back to the decisions they got when they beat us at Anfield last season.

Moyes will not get these decisions and, believe me, it will make a big difference.

05 Sep 2013 08:09:03
1.Just wanting to say Suarez is very much like Maradonna as I think their moral compasses are alike as well as the natural talent(and let's not forget their worldcup handball moments). Hate him all you like but you can't ignore the talent and if you separate the talent from the morality of the man, without saying he's right up there with Messi at the moment though I do think he's more passionate.
2.I'll be very happy seeing him deployed on the right/left of Sturridge when he returns as he will see a lot more of the ball and also draw the defence out, and pull the markers off sturridge and it would create so much more space for Coutinho to ping balls through.
3.What concerns me about this lineup of
Suarez/sturridge/Moses
Coutinho/Gerrard
Lucas
Is that the team will seriously Miss the defensive capability of Henderson. Honestly I feel Gerrard has missplaced far too many passes and attempted way to many hollywood balls rather than keeping it simple so far this season. In the smaller games I would love to see Gerrard rested and Henderson given a chance in that Deep Lying Playmayer roll that BR has set for Gerrard(I think he can really make that position his own when Gerrard retires)
4.If Moses is on a loan to buy, it would be a great chance for moses to learn all he can from Suarez before he leaves.
5.Clubs don't normally plan for the January tranfer window but I think FSG, now that they've strengthened the defence will look to bring in 1 or 2 more experienced wingers in January and look to send Sterling & Ibe(if he turns 18) on loan for the remainder of the season.
6.All in all very happy with how the club is being run. FSG may not be running LFC like other clubs are being run. BR's way of managing may not be like other managers. But LFC are not like other clubs. And we shouldn't want to be like anyone else. LFC are being taken back to the beginning. This is February 1970. Shanks rebooted.

Agreed with almost all the points but I don't wish Moses learns "all he can" from Suarez because he is defo going back, Though I hope he contributes all he could.

05 Sep 2013 05:50:01
Hello Eds,

Whats the situation with David Amoo? As far as I remember, he was playing at Hearts on loan last season and did reasonably well so as to warrant the club to produce the merchandise. Is he ready for the first team football in EPL?

Is he still with us or has he been moved on? It would be an exiting proposition to have him as an additional attacking option. {Ed002's Note - He left when his contract ran out last year.}

Think you're thinking of Ngoo, he has gone to yeovil on loan for the season.

Mate are you from Maharashtra? I'm asking because your surname is quite common here!

VGRed my friend I am from Maharashtra. Seems to be a lot of Indians out here :)
YNWA

Okay! Where exactly in Maharashtra mate? I'm from Pune!

04 Sep 2013 21:08:05
Just want to say well done to ed002 for getting the Illori deal spot on!

04 Sep 2013 23:58:54
Hey lads just been on united site an reading a few posts, do they still think that ferguson is manager ozil didn't go to united cause they didn't bid for him they did ask his agent if he would come and sign for united, they were told no .

Lesson of the day welcome to the real world no fergie equals not much quality.

Striker 9 {Ed001's Note - not true, Ozil waited to see if United wanted him, they turned down the chance to sign him. Moyes didn't want him.}

To be honest, who might not be a Liverpool player through and through but I find it respectable that he did not just hand in a transfer request and leave. I think it shows maybe he does have some love for the club as well as the fans.

Wow! What kind of a coach doesn't want a player like Ozil?
I think Man Utd. are 'broke'. I don't mean bankrupt. I mean broke in the sense that their owners have drastically reduced how much they can spend on players.
The excuse that Moye's doesn't want Ozil is just a cover for the fact that the money pot has been withdrawn, imho.

Incredulous, but true. Apparently Moyes sees the no. 10 position as Rooney's and not a vital area of concern, or he doesn't rate Ozil that highly to pay over 40 million.
Not sure what is logic was but United fans are livid. Btw can someone tell me what position Ander Herrera plays?

Ozil has way too much finesse for Moyes. If he could drag Duncan Ferguson out of retirement he would

Any clue why Moyes wasn't keen on him ed? {Ed001's Note - probably because he hadn't had time to do his usual checks on his background. Moyes dithers because he takes a long time to decide, he likes to know everything about a player before he moves for them.}

Hmmmnn, I agree with the points raised by jcanRed and cozinoz. But I still feel something is missing.

Even if you have Rooney in your team, come on, it is still Ozil we are talking about here. Most sensible coaches will move the end of the world to get him.

Couple that with the appointment of Moyes himself. A man who is generally thought of as being able to get the best out of squads built with limited budgets.

I think something is amiss at old Trafford. I think the money pot is much smaller. Remember the rambling earlier in the summer about the lack of budget and being able to buy whoever they want to buy? That was unnecessary and might be a diversionary tactic.

Is it possible that United are saving their pennies for a massive buy next summer?

Moyes thought he was getting Baines, Herrera and Fabregas. They have plenty of dosh in the piggy-bank but no-one who knows how to negotiate deals properly

The Everton fans used to call him dithering Dave. They lost a lot of players this way

Manchester United are still massive but with moves at the helm I think they have lost a load of there pull when it comes to buying players .

I don't ever think fabregas would play for a moves type team or ever will that lad has way to much class hence Fellini good player but just an upgrade on the old dogs of war type player joe royle used to love, could be wrong just don't see Manchester United using that chest trap the way Everton did .

Striker 9