Liverpool Banter Archive March 05 2017

05 Mar 2017 18:05:26
Must say I was very happy with emre yesterday. He had a good solid game but the thing that stood out for me was the timings of his jumps for heading the ball was good all day, that for me was the reason why he would be one of the week est player in the league in the air (not counting the shrimps) which is something I have had ago at him about a few weeks back. Hope this is down to the hard work he is doing on the trainING ground and not just a lucky day at the office for him. Accuresy from headers was good also, a few misplaced but a huge improvement from him.

Next is gini. I remember seeing little bits of him at psv I think it was and thought he was a neat little player, at Newcastle I don't think he managed to give the same sort of performances that he had given back in holland. For us he has been solid and kept it simple so far this season, I am not just putting this down to one moment but there is always something that happens with a player which make you think we have a proper player on our hands here. For me with gini it was as simple as when he easily out musseled koscielney to keep position of the ball near the sideline. It showed strength and passion to fight. For me a midfielder needs to be commeted to keeping the clean sheet cause, looking out for mates when they are out of position and dropping in to help out, fight/ spirit what ever you want to call it the willingness to do what ever it takes to get over the line and good passing range. Which I believe he has all of. The fact the lad can finish is a bonus and when he does settle fully I think the lad will be as important to the side as Hendo.

Origi is a lad that I really do want to get more time on the pitch. He rarely disappoints and give an honest showing of himself every time.
Full of running and trying to make space for his mates. If he can get in the goal trail he can get himself a nice little run of goals. Was it 5 in a row of games earlier this season . He was first choice last year towards the end of the season putting in great performances. He is still just a kid is it 21 or 22. So he needs to be playing.

Don't be to harsh on me lad.
Thanks.

05 Mar 2017 19:57:09
your points are fair mate. I think what fans are looking for are for these players to do it consistently - if they do that we will be formidable.

05 Mar 2017 21:06:07
I think its fair to say klopp got his subs spot on, origi had a excellent 10 minutes, ran the channels, held up the ball well, hit the post with a header and laid on the 3rd goal with a great pass, well played origi.

06 Mar 2017 00:18:04
I haven't seen us play that well for a long time, well done boys and Klopp!

06 Mar 2017 00:06:54
Good post, lad ;)

05 Mar 2017 21:07:53
this response isn't in direct response to this post but just on Can, I wish everyone would just lay off the guy. he is what, like 12 yr old? it's like Ed001 harps on and on about with regards to giving youth a chance. I mean, how many midfielders, or just players his age are carving up the prem at the mo? He might not come into his own and be the player we all want him to be right now until he hits his mid-20s. he needs time.

06 Mar 2017 09:35:50
Good post, Gotklopp. Emre had a stellar performance by simply doing the simple things right. Never tried anything special nor anything fancy. He just kept things ticking over, dominated midfield due to his athleticism and physicality, snuffed out Giroud, his long and short range passing were great and if all else failed, he just booted it upfield. Sometimes, you have to focus more on your strengths rather than your weaknesses during games and he did that well.

As for Gini, he has improved us overall this season and will only get better. Origi? He has shown that he belongs in the squad well ahead of Studge at the moment. The kid has all the tools to be great. He is the closest thing to Klopp's other crown jewel Lewandowski due to his pace, power, physicality and aerial ability.

He is regarded as a hybrid mix of Thierry Henry and Didier Drogba and for good reason, not saying he is already there BUT the traits are there. It's up to him to put it all together and Klopp will "have a lot of fun with this player", as he said last season.

05 Mar 2017 12:22:33
Liverpool's big problem is defending, and it hasn't been top notch for a long time.

Contrasting the Leicester and Arsenal games much of what Ed1 has said holds true about lack of desire being a large factor etc. To my mind though until we are very tough to break down, and do it consistently, we will always have trouble against teams in the bottom half of the division.

If teams think it is very hard to score against you then psychologically you already have the upper hand, and in addition on your bad days you generally only need one goal to get
3 points.

It's human nature for the level of performance, motivation and such to fluctuate, but being good defensively is something achievable even on bad days, so therefore if Liverpool are to win the division again then this is where the large improvement is needed otherwise we will continue to flatter to deceive.

05 Mar 2017 17:31:29
Good post
Other teams happy to put the ball into out box as anything can happen, half the time we don't know what our goalie will do.
We do have a very good first 11
If any of them are out then we struggle
Against burnley Mane was out
Against Bournmouth Matip ans Couthinhio were out
Against Sunderland away Couthinio ans Henderson were out
Against Hull away Wijnaldum was dropped to bench
Swansea home Mane and Matip missing
Leicester away Henserson out
Hopefully Klopp can sort some good signings in the summer so we not realiant on our first 11.

05 Mar 2017 19:58:46
I think we need to prioritise a centre back who reads the game well and is imperious in the air, as well as up for physical battles.

The main way teams bypass our high press is by lumping it forward to either a target man or a physical number 9 who will try and bully defenders to run off the shoulder. That wasn't an issue for Klopp at Dortmund because Hummels and Subotic were both monsters in the air and read the flight of the ball so well they cut out the long balls.

At Liverpool we have:
- Matip who reads the game well but isn't very physical. I think his ankle injury not being 100% healed is holding him back as at Schalke nobody could touch him in physical or aerial battles.
- Lucas who is too slow and weak to regularly win battles against the likes of Vardy, Costa or Lukaku. Luckily he reads the game very well or he would be torrid at centre back instead of just the average centre back he actually is.
- Klavan who is decent enough and doesn't ever get bullied, but is quite late to see danger.
- Gomez who simply isn't ready.
- and lastly Lovren who is dreadful in the air and at reading the game, so relies on aggression and being quicker than the forward (which he rarely is) to make countless recoveries.

We do not have an absolutely dominant centre back. Klavan and Matip are probably the closest to what Klopp wants but Ed002 forewarned us that Matip was not as good as we were expecting. I'm still hoping he proves 002 wrong as he started to before Christmas, but he has looked fragile in 2017. Klavan was obviously only intended to be experienced back up in light of Kolo leaving.

Long term maybe Gomez and Matip will develop into a great, dominant pairing but I'm not so sure. I think they are both too soft and more ball playing defenders than physically dominant leaders. We need to replace Lovren in our starting XI with a monster of a player who will kick danger into the stratosphere before it even develops. That is probably why the likes of Sule and Tah have been touted as great fits. Sule is obviously a no go after agreeing to sign for Bayern but I would propose we break the bank for somebody really physical and dominant in the air to partner Matip. I really hope we don't sign yet another centre back for their "quality on the ball".

05 Mar 2017 19:28:28
Personally i don't think it is desire, or at least desire alone. I can't believe for one second that the amount of times Liverpool have been thumped by the lower end teams this season is purely down to the players lack of effort. I don't think it is unfair to rule out tactics against these teams that will set up more defensive and hit Liverpool on the counter attack. Im pretty sure that the Liverpool players after being beaten a few times by lesser teams would want to "sort it out" the next time they play a team of similar calibre.

05 Mar 2017 20:57:56
Nastasic would be decent.

05 Mar 2017 23:54:18
Could anyone clear up the hype on Gomez? How many minutes has the lad played to claim such a statement " He is the future "?

06 Mar 2017 00:10:51
I think it's 95% tactics and 5% us dropping our level. Actually I think one leads to the other. In most games we've lost it's because we've been so comfortable in the game that we've just lost concentration and been hit on the break. Against the top teams they want the ball and that just plays into our hands.

The lower teams let's us have all of the possession and we get complacent and over commit leaving us short at the back. We need the first goal in these games and when we don't get it we struggle.

06 Mar 2017 00:23:13
It's frustrating knowing we are one of the best, if not the highest scoring team in the prem? idk i can't remember exactly what they said during the arsenal game but being so inconstant at the back. Personally for next season id like to see a solid left back and solid cb to partner with matip, i love gomez but i don't want to throw him straight in after injury and then if something goes wrong some fans start slating the boy, that's the last thing he needs!

and dare i say a new GK, idk what the coaching for the keepers behind the scenes is but i don't remember migs being this bad for sunderland and im sure karius was a lot more confident in germany so it could be something behind the scenes which maybe isn't quite clicking.

06 Mar 2017 09:55:21
Harry, I have asked the very same question and not a sou has been able to answer that question logically.

Now regarding losing vs lesser teams, it is a combination of all that has been mentioned here.

Tactics - Not being able to move the ball quickly enough and create space for third man runners from midfield to score.

Injuries - Having our good players out and lack of depth

Belief and determination - seems like we lose belief and concentration when we don't make the break through early in such games hence we start panicking, the crowd get impatient and the players start trying to force the issue instead of remaining patient in their play. These are all things that Klopp has to fix and the players have to be ready to fight and claw for three points in every game cos every point will matter going forward and the shambles at LC should NEVER happen again.

07 Mar 2017 01:38:03
Gomez has already played for the first team and did not look out of place.
As a teenager he has shown he has the temperament to handle the premier league.
He certainly has the physical attributes though injury will have taken a lot out of him.
He just needs to "learn the position" of centre back for which he needs to play. I'd rather see him in there than Lucas but I don't think he starts ahead of Lovren or Klavan.

05 Mar 2017 10:06:51
Ed 002 I agree with you that .............

{Ed002's Note - This is the Liverpool page.}

05 Mar 2017 09:47:35
I wonder which team will turn up against Burnley, Jekyll or Hyde ?

05 Mar 2017 09:56:35
Depends on Burnley.

05 Mar 2017 18:34:31
Depends on Liverpool Ron, very little to do with Burnley imo. They are towards the bottom of the league for a reason and all the other top teams will have a far superior record against such teams than us.

05 Mar 2017 19:53:52
If they play with 2 banks of 4 behind the ball we will struggle.

05 Mar 2017 19:34:09
That's the issue we have.

Way back when it didn't matter what level team we were playing in any competition we hated losing or drawing games.

I remember us beating Bristol Rovers 9-1 I think it was.
The team and the fans wanted more.


I remember there comentators saying that Liverpool were at their most dangerous when they were behind.

We've lost that magic belief somewhere along the line and I believe it's since Roy Evans was shafted by Houllier.

But I'm an old fogey.

The team must believe they are better than the opposition and if by chance we lose it definitely shouldn't be from lack of effort.

06 Mar 2017 10:11:51
Dermot, you re spot on. Also remember in the start of the season when we thumped "parked buses" like Hull, Sunderland, WB, Watford, Stoke, CP and even Everton at Goodison, it was cos we never gave up, stayed patient, kept plugging away and when the opening (s) came, we pounced and punished them, some of them in devastating fashion. We have lost that self belief BUT don't seem to lack it vs the bigger teams. That is what Klopp must fix at this point cos to me, it is both a tactical and MOST importantly, a mentality and psychological issue with our boys BUT the Anfield crowd need to be patient as well cos it may take time for the breakthrough to happen.

05 Mar 2017 09:07:55
To beat inferior teams, we need the players to show the same attitude and desire that Suarez showed. He was like a man possessed on the pitch, losing hurt him and he worked so hard, no matter what the opposition was. He was a born winner and fighter. He never thought 'this team is inferior to LFC so I won't work as hard as I would against a top team'. Guys, I am talking about attitude for I know he was world class and better than any current LFC player.

05 Mar 2017 11:09:52
Unfortunately ability alone isn't what makes that elite player, it's the hunger and desire to be the best and do anything to win.

Unfortunately our players have all the ability when the know they have to perform but they are not elite players because they're inconsistent.

Lallana yesterday, wow if he did that every week he'd be worth 100 million but he doesn't so he stays a very good player. Nothing more.

That's my take on it anyway.

05 Mar 2017 18:35:44
Its a common phrase and one that i apply to this team now, particularly when people talk about the 'work rate' of players such as firmino and milner.

It is often said there is a difference between closing down a player for the sake of running, and closing down a player genuinely believing you are going to win the ball. There is a difference between effort, and passion. Suarez had that passion, that burning desire to win. Our players meanwhile just run a lot and go through the motions without ever really feeling any burning desire to win, it would seem.

06 Mar 2017 10:17:53
Great posts, lads. Effort is not passion. Passion is effort, determination and a will to win, all of which we possess when we play a top team cos we always seem to play with a chip on our shoulders in these games. To be a great team or great player, you HAVE to do it every single day. Michael Jordan is arguably the greatest basketball player ever. Why? His mentality was, "No one cares what you did in your last game. You have to ALWAYS come back and do it again". Same goes for Suarez, CR7 and other great players. They hated to lose cos their will to win was humongous. Klopp himself said in an interview in Germany years ago, "It is not the fear of losing that makes you a winner. It is your will to win". It's about time he instilled this into his players vs the lesser teams cos he has no issues with his players' will to win vs the top teams.

05 Mar 2017 03:46:10
Hi Ed002

Can I ask if liverpool have ever looked at Blaise Matuidi? And if so what is the opinion on him?

{Ed002's Note - No, and typically that will be the answer when asked about random players.}

05 Mar 2017 08:28:26
Much improved performance. But a word of caution. Their goal still exposed our weaknesses. Sanchez running at us with a pass in behind the defence - they cut through is very easily. Granted it happened a few times only, but it does with the more expansive teams. A better measure of consistency will be Burnley. Best in mind also that if other teams won their games in hand we could be 5th or 6th. I know I sound very negative but it shows how much work there still is to do.

05 Mar 2017 08:48:37
I agree that the other teams have games in hand but we must also take into account that we have only one more game against a top six side while most of the others have three and Man C have four. There are going to be a lot of points lost in these games and we have got to push on and take advantage of the games that we have left. I know that they are not all easy but it time for Liverpool to show that there is a real gap in class between Liverpool and most of the rest of the League.

05 Mar 2017 09:13:47
What you mean a world class player in sanchez caused us problems. shock horror.

You can buy every player in yhe world and still not stop attacks?

05 Mar 2017 09:55:07
Strictly speaking if you had every player in the world then you wouldn't have anyone to attack your team, but I know what you mean 😉.

05 Mar 2017 17:16:13
A Team that doesn't play with an out and out DM shouldn't push their full backs very high especially when you are dealing with the likes of Sanchez and Hazzard's.

It's a simple math, When you over commit players you leave gaps behind your position which is certain to be exploited once you loose the possession.

05 Mar 2017 18:16:28
Papetwee, at the moment playing all our rivals in the run in would be preferable to playing the rest.

05 Mar 2017 22:27:50
Supermane the point is not about being Sanchez, last week it was Vardy. And we've been burned by Hull recently the same way. Any time you leave space behind the CB playing a high line against teams who will counterattack and you have defenders who are slow or have poor positioning or both, then you will run into problems. It shows why we struggle to beat any team like that, even Plymouth.

05 Mar 2017 07:33:28
Klopp is my man, but he needs to either buy the finish product or do the refining faster and better. Apart from Lallana, I can think of anyone’s whose game as been improved. They are all at the same level they have always been. Take Nathaniel for example, he still can't cross, Sturridge still places as a point man, Moreno still can't defend, Couthino still can't hug the lines and cross inside, so buy finished products who suit your game. At least buy a Central defender, left winger, left full back, and a dedicated DM. TAA can compete with Nathaniel. And if possible a 20 g striker.

{Ed001's Note - you seriously think that Couts has not improved and that hugging the line and putting a cross in would improve him?}

05 Mar 2017 16:46:30
I expect us to buy 4 of the 5 positions you mentioned.

06 Mar 2017 10:29:38
The fact that you think Couts has not improved and that you think he's a winger when every man and his dog knows he is not, says a lot about your understanding of the game as whole.

05 Mar 2017 03:34:00
I see lots of praise of fhe usual suspects yet again and some others yet again bereaiting Emre can ( without solid foundation in regards him which I find very unfair) . That being said there's one player who got a shed load of stick before even kicking a ball in the mighty reds shirt.

€30m on Wijnaldum.

Well I have said it from the day he signed that he would be one of the priceless key elements of the squad and yet again today he has shown that and finished off with finishing off a fantastic piece of counter attacking.
Hi positioning on and off the ball is brilliant, his distribution is very good and his defensive qualities when required are just as good.

For me he has been one of the top 3 players based on performances this season so far. It is sometimes the player you least notice on the pitch that is the key element to a successful season and his link up play and break down of the ball when defending or attacking is exemplary.

A note on James Milner, please please please MR. Klopp hold onto him this summer the guy is amazing no matter where you play him as he will alwayys give 110%. Yes he has his failings at times as does Wijnaldum and the rest of the squad but nobody is perfect not even Messi or Ronaldo.
( no I am not compairing )

Are there changes needed in certain areas?
Yes.

Was the leicester result a blip well yes and no for a lot of reasons.

Our aim was to challenge for the title, by monday evening we will still be in the top 4. Ok I don't think we can win but 2nd is very very possible and come the summer if we can find 4 key quality players who would be in the starting 11 most games then we can challenge if not dominate next season.

Mistakes have been made on and off the field but if you learn from your mistakes you can only improve.

Good performance today, not great in my opinion because the gunners are a shambles right now but its the result we needed.

Keep the faith Chelsea have a lot of tough games ahead and funnier things have happened in the past and I ain't hearing no fat lady sing yet.

😆😆😆.

05 Mar 2017 04:13:36
Wijinaldum has been hot and cold all season. If he played the way he did against Arsenal week in week out you'd be making a fair point but he doesn't, he goes missing frequently. I know we played well against Arsenal and Gini had a good game but for people to suddenly start touting him as one of our best players this season in madness. He is good, and works in the system well, when he turns up. When he performs like he did against Leicester he offers nothing. He has been OK, not awful by any stretch but certainly not as amazing as you are making him out to be.

05 Mar 2017 05:19:43
Seano - so basically Gini needs to turn up every game in order otherwise the rest of the team has no chance?

05 Mar 2017 09:45:55
Didn't mention anything about the rest of the team simply said that Wiji disappears in more games than he produces in and that to call him one of our best players on the back of one of his good performances is incorrect (in my opinion) .

05 Mar 2017 13:49:52
Your picking now seano just to backup your own opinion the facts are there if you actually watched all the games he played in this season.

05 Mar 2017 16:13:00
With the exception of one or two I have watched every game this season. He disappears more than he produces. I'm not saying he is terrible, he's decent, but people making a case for him to be player of the season? That's just stupid for a player who simply hasn't been that good.

05 Mar 2017 18:25:43
Completely agree savvy. 90% of people were so against his signing that a large section of them will never admit they got it wrong.

I have it between Gini and Mane for player of the season. Incredible considering this is Gini's first season in a top league as a deeper midfielder. He has only ever really played behind a striker or on the left prior to it. He has just got better and better every week.

05 Mar 2017 20:36:14
Thanks MK
At least there's someone out there with a footballing brain that actually understood my post rather than picking points from certain things I said and twisting them totally.

Your totally right as well about those people who refuse to admit when they were totally wrong.

🖒.

05 Mar 2017 21:50:06
my point is - the whole team has blown hot and cold this season. coutinho blows more cold than hot at the best of times. but to just single out gini makes me think that his performance is so crucial that the whole team's performance depends on gini turning up! we all know that isn't the case, because the lot of em are on their own roller coaster journey!