Liverpool Banter Archive December 05 2017

05 Dec 2017 22:14:28
Evening Eds. massive few weeks for us coming up in both Europe and the league. And with us expecting to see karius in goal again tomorrow night for the European game, what is the situation with our keepers? I'm not having for one minute klopp or the club are fully happy with either. migs makes far to many silly errors that costs us and he seems to be the best of a bad bunch hence why he plays most games . are the club actively looking for alternatives or is that just wishful thinking on my part? Or if so any ideas at who's being looked at?

{Ed002's Note - January is not the time to bring in a GK. Liverpool already have four registered for the first team.}

05 Dec 2017 22:57:53
Just give karius a run in the team with competent defenders in front of him, he has made some errors but overall he looks miles ahead of mignolet in terms of confidence and ability.

05 Dec 2017 23:16:23
For me in the summer we should buy oblak.

06 Dec 2017 05:45:38
Take the coutinho money and use it on a GK, CB and if there's anything left a LB.

Don't see the need for a replacement for coutinho at this time.

Lets sort out the defence and push forward.

06 Dec 2017 08:44:46
What a signing Oblak would be. No doubt he'll end up at United to replace De Gea though 😣.

{Ed002's Note - It has been made clear to both English sides that enquired after Jan Oblak previously that his cost would be outrageous - so I would not expect a move any time soon.}

06 Dec 2017 08:49:54
Took me a long time to remember who keeper number 4 was.

06 Dec 2017 10:18:15
Then the money we can get for coutinho, should be used in oblak.

{Ed002's Note - Not going to happen. Move on.}

05 Dec 2017 21:44:26
Would be great if we could go out and win the group tomorrow then Basle in the next round would be lovely. If us, united, spurs and City win the groups we can only draw 4 teams 2 of which are juventus and Bayern, bring em on lol.

05 Dec 2017 21:58:18
Rust realised this is absolute rubbish lol
With the above conditions Chelsea could only draw PSG, Barcelona or Besiktas though.

05 Dec 2017 22:27:09
Best 16 teams in Europe, rocks and hard places where ever you look.

05 Dec 2017 16:01:33
Hello Redmen,

I would like to point you towards my weekend prediction 3-0.ok I got the score wrong, but I still predicted the win so it counts. Im going for a 3-1 win tomorrow night before a 2-0 win at the weekend. This backs my prediction a few weeks back that we were going to win 4 on the bounce, qualify from our group and get into the top 4. Im 2 for 2 so far.

Now enough of the ramblings of a crazy person, heres the loan update :)

Ryan Kent was an unused sub as Frieburg drew 0-0 with Hamburg.

Williams was an unused sub at the weekend as Rochdale beat Slough 4-0 to reach the 3rd round of the FA Cup.

Gomes was an unused sub as Forest Green drew 3-3 with Exeter in a lively 3rd round tie which included both teams scoring after the 90th minute!

Allan was unused as Apollon won 6-0 against Pafos. Next up is Everton on Thursday night.

Origi was deployed wide right and played the full 90 as Wolfsburg won 3-0 against B M'gladbach.

Chiverella returned to the starting 11 following injury as Willem II beat Heracles 3-1 to pull 3 points clear of the drop zone.

S George unfortunately did not get the nod for the cup and again was an unused sub as Carlisle drew 1-1 with Gillingham.

Connor Randall appears to be out of favour as he was again an unused sub as Hearts drew 1-1 with Hamilton.

It was a poor performance by Ojo and a poor performance by Fulham all round as they lost 3-1 to Brentford. Ojo was subbed with 10 minutes to go.

And I am not quite sure what happened to RBL this weekend but they were thumped 4-0 away to Hoffenheim!
I didn't see the game but Keita is the only RBL player to score above 7 in the opta stats (he got 8.6) so I guess he put in a decent shift while his team mates slept?!

And that's your lot redmen.

05 Dec 2017 16:26:17
Thanks Carra. Seems only Origi, Keita and possibly Ojo are gaining much from these loans unfortunately.

05 Dec 2017 18:24:55
For anyone interested, you can currently vote for Origi on the official Bundesliga site as rookie of the season so far.

05 Dec 2017 19:27:41
I watched the game for sometime to see Keita and he was running around aimlessly. which reminds me of Coutinho's current state.

Not sure what is in for us.

cheers.

05 Dec 2017 20:40:43
Cheers carra, very much appreciated. May your predictions remain positive and inspired.

05 Dec 2017 20:50:23
As far as i know, origi was only sent out on loan because he personally asked to, and i think he still has room to develop as a player. Just hope he doesn't fall into the liverpool trap of sending players on loan who never return. As for ojo, he seems similar to demarai gray, a player with a lot of talent but also a failure to grasp basic instructions and need top level footballers need, especially with decision making.

05 Dec 2017 22:25:35
I’d like Origi come back Anfield he is still so young 22 years age however I honestly do think Klopp might look offloading him in the summer should reasonable price come our way, I don’t think Origi content being 3rd possible 4th choice too.

06 Dec 2017 00:37:16
Carra, Allan started for Apollon in the 6-0 win.

06 Dec 2017 09:51:24
Thanks Sydred. The ap I use to follow the lads does not give good updates for the Cypriot league. It stated Allan was not even in the squad! lol.

I think I will need to search his result separately each time.

05 Dec 2017 12:28:15
(Long post alert) Hi markp08, this is inspired by you but not exclusively aimed at you. Firstly, I do respect your right to disagree, even though i was angry at the way you presented your opinion earlier. You've since presented your argument with more composure and perspective, so all is forgiven and there are no hard feeling. I take your point that Firmino can go missing against stronger teams and that he is profligate in front of goal at times.

However, Firmino has 11 goals and 5 assists in 21 games (1659 minutes) . That is better than a goal every other game. It is a goal or assist every 103 minutes.

The only other player in the world who can do what Firmino does in terms of pressing, goal scoring, and creativity (and to a similar level) is Suarez in my opinion. He is having a bad season so far by his own standards with just 6 goals and 3 assists in a very top heavy league, having played 1612 minutes of football. Goal/ assist every 179 minutes.

Ronaldo is top scorer in the CL and has 11 goals and 3 assists in 1381 minutes across all competitions. Goal/ assist every 98 minutes despite also playing in a top heavy league and taking 10 shots a game!

Personally, i find it obvious Firmino is great without having to analyse his direct goals contribution, but seeing as some want to do just that, my point above is that his stats stand up to some of the best players in the world. I think most people would have Ronaldo and Suarez in their top 5.

The thing is, there will always be somebody out there in better goal scoring form. Who would've thought Cavani, Icardi and Immobile would be favourites for the European golden shoe award at the start of the season? Everyone was too busy day dreaming about Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, Suarez and Mbappe.

At the end of the day though, it is about scoring goals as a team (not as individuals) and i think I'm right in saying we have scored 55 goals in 23 games. Carry on at that rate and we'll have scored close to 150 by next May. Firmino has contributed to nearly a third of those goals directly (16), and if you analysed them all individually I'll bet he was involved to some extent in close to half of them.

Our main problems are not in front of goal. We can micro-analyse our forwards if you want, but before Saturday, no team had scored more than 2 goals past Brighton this season, and we smashed them for 5 in their own back yard.

If there are people out there who just genuinely don't rate Firmino, that's fine. But you don't need to antagonise the rest of us with blatantly over the top criticism, put words into peoples mouths, or suggest that the Eds have a propaganda-style agenda behind their match reviews.

The beauty of an opinion is you cannot be wrong. So just give us your counter arguments and back them up with explanations! The debates might still get heated because we are men (mainly) discussing football! If your argument is good enough, you won't need to attack other opinions (leave that behaviour in politics! ) Who knows, you might even change peoples views? What's clear is Firmino divides opinion, so maybe there is some truth to both sides. let's just agree to disagree. Truce?

05 Dec 2017 13:44:34
Your not winning the league without 20 goals minimum from your striker. Even if you have a blinding so winger.

As Long as everyone's happy with top 4 then there's nothing to worry about :)

05 Dec 2017 13:57:10
@TopBusiness

Chelsea, 2005/ 06, Premier League champions.

Top Scorer: Frank Lampard, 16 league goals

Top Scorer in all comps: Frank Lampard, 20 goals

Having a top striker definately makes it easier but is not totally essential. Although having a decent defensive like Mourinho's chelsea probably would help too.

05 Dec 2017 14:08:49
TopBusiness, if Salah scores beyond 20 (which he almost certainly will) I don't understand what difference that makes just because he's called a winger instead of a striker.

05 Dec 2017 14:10:54
TopBusiness, i really don't understand why it matters who scores? If you can elaborate, please do. Salah is the top scorer in the Premier League. Why does it matter what position he stands in at kick off?

I can easily see Firmino, Salah, Coutinho and Mane scoring 80 goals between them this year if we keep hold of Coutinho until next summer. They already have 39 by early December. Don't you think it is ridiculous to suggest that having a single striker scoring is worth more than having 4 players all equally as deadly?

I'm all ears, but i think that is a completely unsubstantiated statement which cannot be backed up. We won't win the league, but it is blatantly obvious that it is our defence holding us back. We are third top scorers in the league, but we have conceded more goals than Swansea. Yes, you did read that correctly; we have conceded 19 goals whilst 20th placed Swansea have only let in 18.

05 Dec 2017 14:17:09
Last time i checked, City won the title in 13/ 14.

Suarez, 31 league goals.
Sturridge, 21 league goals.
Yaya, 20 league goals.
Aguero, 17 league goals.

We had 2 strikers score more than Aguero. Their top scorer was a midfielder. They won the league without a 20 goal striker that year. And you can't say "yeah but Yaya got 20", because you've basically already said that it doesn't matter if players in other positions score goals.

05 Dec 2017 14:21:09
Hi Mk, I had been away with the lads for a few days and I read through the posts on here and I felt the Firminho love in had gone too far. It just seemed Firminho gets the credit for everything and is above critisism.

I shouldn't have brought the world class part up. I just read world class and jumped all over it without reading it properly.

My position on Firminho is different to yours and a few games won't change that either way. I hope you are right as we will be more sucessfull. I said in a post 2 weeks ago I expected Firminho to go on a run and play well till the new year. I just don't think he will be able to maintain it and I hope he tries to improve his hold up play. I am just looking for small improvements. I am also expecting better from Mane and PC.

05 Dec 2017 14:29:12
Personally I think the only position you can't win the league without is a keeper on good form. Everything else can be covered or compensated for.

05 Dec 2017 14:30:20
Mk, your spot on mate, if our defence was improved, we would def be a top three side, and we would score even more goals, it doesn't matter for me who scores, just as long as we play well and get the three points,
yes, it looks good in the sunday papers if your striker bagged another goal,
I think, and funny enough, Klopp thinks that Firmino is very important to our side, as he is involved is so much of our offensive play and goals .

05 Dec 2017 14:45:17
MK agree with you on pretty much everything, and I definitely want to improve our gk and defence, but our 19 goals conceded is being skewed by two results, 10 conceded in 13 isn't far off the other top teams form.

05 Dec 2017 14:47:03
We are doomed then Hjikle.

05 Dec 2017 15:03:35
markp08 - momentarily? Yes, but I still have a lot of faith that Karius and Ward will be consistent, above average keepers who can control a defense if we trust them and give them the game time to settle in.

05 Dec 2017 15:24:09
I doubt Ward will even get a chance, but I would like him to be given a chance. Karius I have no idea. He just doesn't seem vocal enough to me.

05 Dec 2017 15:28:24
Very true idontlooklikeklopp. Good point. However the odd 1 goal conceded to a soft error such as those against Chelsea, Burnley, Newcastle etc has cost us 6 points alone, so although the number is skewed, it is still poor that we've dropped so many points to a soft goal. And that's just off the top of my head. A decent keeper alone would've stopped all 3 of those goals and we'd probably be joint 2nd!

We've only failed to score twice i believe? City (under mitigating circumstances) and United. All other points dropped have basically been because of silly mistakes at the back rather than us failing to break the opposition down. That's despite Coutinho sulking, Mane being injured/ banned and Lallana not even playing yet. Going forward we can hurt anyone, but the soft equalisers we keep conceding will come back to haunt us in May.

05 Dec 2017 15:33:21
No worries Markp. Water under the bridge mate. Like you say, we all want the same end result so no point going at each other. Hopefully Firmino bangs in 30 this season and shocks us all.

05 Dec 2017 16:14:20
Man City won the league with Joe Hart in goal.

05 Dec 2017 17:56:47
Ron. 😂😂.

05 Dec 2017 18:02:44
I was just going to add to my point above that if we and MU had swapped keepers at the start of the season we would have more points than they currently have, and them less than we have, and then Ron drops the J Hart bomb!

However, in general I would guess about 20% of goals are scored by a great bit of skill either build up or shot (sit back and applaud it),40% set piece Inc penaltys, and the rest are defensive errors -see Arsenal at the weekend and who else remembers Roy Keane back passing to Batigol, everyone makes mistakes, a good system covers most of those inevitable mistakes unless they're the keepers brain carts.

05 Dec 2017 18:31:28
And I didn't even hint at the Kasper Schmeichel bomb 😁.

05 Dec 2017 18:53:28
MK. Just to add to your point in comparing Firmino's stats to the likes of Rondaldo, Suarez, etc. Let's not forget that Ronaldo takes every penalty for Madrid. Firmino is not our regular penalty taker and gets very little attempts from Penalties if any.
Sure the penalty taker still has to put it in the net but IMO that has to be taken into effect.

05 Dec 2017 20:35:33
That’s probably because he missed the one he did take for us this season . along with Milner and salah.

04 Dec 2017 22:53:24
Apologies for the question but after listening to the sharkopod, I still can't understand one of the names that Ed002 mentioned. Mohammed Ubdabelli (spelling is obviously wrong) . I understood him to mean a PSG player but can't find anyone on their roster who has an even vague aquaintance with the spelling I have used.

{Ed002's Note - You may have found an old one Phil - it was Mahamadou Dembele who was told to RBS in the summer and now is on loan at an Austrian side (I don't recall which). To make it easy. Benedikt Howedes (CB) (if Juventus don't take up their option). Virgil van Dijk (CB) damaged goods could well happen if the owners are willing to take the loss of face - all in all a very embarrassing situation. Stefan de Vrij (CB) - could be a good January option. Plus a youngster - Perr Schuurs (CB) expected to join at 18 - not first team right away, and an enquiry was made for another youngster
Francisco Ferreira (CB) - Benfica won't want to sell in January and at 20 and from the second tier, not one for the Liverpool first team but they have enquired.}

05 Dec 2017 09:12:21
Question for Ed002:
Is Klopp looking to sign one or two centre backs? Or is it the case of one in January and another in the summer?
Personally think we need two.

{Ed002's Note - Initially it will just be one I think IB.}

05 Dec 2017 10:35:04
Ok cheers Ed002.
De Vrij is my pick for January and then someone like Koulibaly who is much more cultured defender than VVD. But I fear there will be more attractive options for Koulibaly in the summer with Barcelona also interested.

{Ed002's Note - You are correct that barcelona has Kalidou Koulibaly on their list of CB targets, not at the top, but on their list.}

05 Dec 2017 20:30:52
Ed002 thanks for that. Must be because Im an Ozzie but have some troubles understanding your accent at times:-) Maybe your sharkopods should come with subtitles - like those TV shows my wife watches eg Rat Bastards :-)

{Ed002's Note - I am told I have a slightly odd accent as I left America 36 years ago.}