Liverpool Banter Archive July 04 2015

04 Jul 2015 21:28:55
Pleased with our transfers so far but can't help feeling we will have just as much success next season with.

1. New keeper
2. leader at centre half
3. New manager

And saved a lot of cash

04 Jul 2015 19:52:00
Hi, Eds other than Benteke . No only kidding, I was wondering if you know what further disruption the stadium build will have this year if at all, I know we requested our first game to be away because of building work but wondered what else will happen as the build continues, thanks

{Ed002's Note - I don't know the detail but there will be something the club has in terms of notifying season ticket holders if the are impacted at all.}

04 Jul 2015 18:20:53
Just my take on some of the topics that frequent the page.

I think Morenos positioning is pony although sometimes he can recover but he really needs to improve a lot, he does look like he will get better. I think Mings improved tenfold in the second half of the season and nearly got the golden glove in the end. I think everyone lacked confidence last season and I'm sure they will all know a repeat is not an option. I also think FSG, Ayre and the committee are doing a great job this summer and I feel that we can really push on this year. Good signings had already and looks like more to come. People need to get behind the players that we have signed as a lot seem to be getting stick before they have kicked a ball.
IMO and this is how I'm looking at it.

Ings: Improvement on Borini
Origi: Improvement on Lambert (obviously not a new signing but only arriving)
Milner: can't obviously say an improvment on Stevie but good replacement
Bogdan: Improvement on Jones
Gomez: Great potential by all accounts. Only a kid. Possible loan.
Frimino: Great addition to the team.
Benteke: Improvement on Balotelli (If he signs that is)
Clyne: Vast improvement on Glenn Johnson.

When Sterling goes Ibe will easily fill the void next year as IMO he has more about him than Sterling. Maybe not as fast but fast. Is stronger and is not going to back out of any 50-50s like sterling does and he actually wants to play for the club

04 Jul 2015 19:39:51
We need replacement not improvement.

04 Jul 2015 20:59:04
No, i'm pretty sure its improvment we need.

05 Jul 2015 00:00:48
This will sound negative. but.

If the manager doesn't use the players strengths then all can be pony.

Therefore I do not see some of the above players as improvements if the player doesn't play them or doesn't play them to their strengths - we bought Lambert for a reason, didn't play to his strengths (or didn't play him) so how can we say Origi is an improvement?

Also Bogdan 102 appearances in 8 years - 12.5 per year - I can't say I'm shouting from the roof tops - nothing against him but to say he is an improvement when Migs is the current No1 is ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong I'll support all players but we've done some good business and average business - let's not sugar coat everything!

05 Jul 2015 02:39:08
Agree with most of the initial post though I don't think Ings or origi have proved they're an improvement on borini and lambert ( yet)

05 Jul 2015 03:39:23
Only the club can explain that terrible bit of business because no one with even half a brain cell understands it

05 Jul 2015 04:42:07
Hoola read the post before you write. I said bogdan over jones!! Also Origi is an upgrade on lambert. let's be honest Lambert offered nothing last season that's why he wasnt played,granted he had more about him than mario.

05 Jul 2015 08:14:31
Origi got in the worst team of the season in France last year. Lambert was barely given a chance but has scored regularly in the EPL. Origi could be a good player for us but he has proven absolutely nothing for Liverpool. Yet. I hope the lad does well but don't support him In order to put down our other players because Rodgers couldn't figure out how to use his strikers properly.

05 Jul 2015 08:53:32
How can you say that players are an improvement when they haven't even kicked a ball for us yet. Origi as yet is an improvement on nobody, was dreadful in France and has had a couple of good WC games is all.

05 Jul 2015 09:44:53
Origi scored 8 in 22 starts (better than Balotelli, Borini & Lambert combined)

Read the well argued Tomkins Times piece on how his stats at such a young age suggest an above average chance of him proving to be an elite level striker and hence a very shrewd signing

Watch his movement and tell me he's not got a natural instinct for moving into space (rare in someone so young).

The worst XI thing has been debunked as not being a fair reflection of his performances last season. More a piss-take inclusion because the crowd got frustrated and he'd been snapped up by Liverpool for a relatively large fee and everyone was expecting him to get 20 league goals.

Like Can, I think he'll surprise people with just how good is he is but we need to make sure he's eased in this season.

05 Jul 2015 10:03:50
JQLFC96

I read the post - how can Bodgan be an improvement; has he played regularly or been back-up in a premier team?

I really hope origi makes it - my point (which you would've got if you read my post) is that if the manager does not play to the players / teams strengths then how can you say someone is an improvement?

Bring Ronaldo in and play him LWB - is that an improvement?

Sterling, BR - best young player in Europe. keeping Coutinho out of the side playing top of the diamond in 2013-2014; so he then gets played at RWB or as a striker. how well did that go for him in 2014-2015?

Given our manager and his inability to know his best formation / first 11 then how can we suggest any of these players are improvements?

04 Jul 2015 15:07:24
Hi eds,
Just been on official site and there's still no sign of milner or ings on the first team squad page, any idea why they are involved in pre season squad but not actually on the squad page as our players? Is it just confirmation with medical and if so are you aware of when this could be? Cheers mate

{Ed001's Note - the site is just not well maintained.}

04 Jul 2015 17:48:12
You can also still buy a Peterson shirt even though he left a year ago

04 Jul 2015 17:57:02
They need an ed033!

04 Jul 2015 18:16:17
They haven't been like 'officially unveiled' whereas clyne, bogdan and firmino have, whose names are in the squad on the website.

04 Jul 2015 14:23:33
Any chance of Liverpool buying Marc Bartra or Inigo Martinez? We definitely need to improve our defence. Thanks

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool has already added two defenders this summer. Hopeless.}

04 Jul 2015 16:49:19
With the names given, Dus7n wa clearly asking about central defenders.

With Ilori returning from loan being balanced by Coates moving to Sunderland, Gomez clearly not expected to be a 1st team player, Skrtel's contract still not 100% nailed down and serious question marks over Lovren, why is asking if Liverpool are interested in any new CD's so stupid?

May be the two players he mentioned aren't anywhere in the frame, but are any other CD being considered.

{Ed001's Note - are you still not getting what the issue was? Needing to improve the defence on the end after the club bought two defenders. Coates was not at the club last season, so how on earth does Ilori's return balance up losing a player we never had available? I give up.}}

04 Jul 2015 17:24:05
Don't need either of them, Ilori deserves his chance after looking immense in the Euros.

04 Jul 2015 17:52:18
The defensive issues aren't about the personnel solely. The system and usual lack of a defensive mid are massively to blame in my opinion. One of the reasons Lovren was so obviously frustrated last season having to work with the manager's useless set up and selection.

04 Jul 2015 20:04:46
Yes, most people here agree we need a solid CDM to give some protection to the back 4, but aside from that does anyone see either Skrtel or Lovren leaving this summer and if they did, would that require us to replace them or do we have enough cover?

04 Jul 2015 20:16:33
Spot on, Essex! Even if we had a Varane-Ramos partnership which is a proven pairing, with Allen or Gerrard plaing in front of them at the DM position, we would still struggle mightily in that dreadful defensive system or lack thereof in that pathetic BR defensive system

04 Jul 2015 20:59:49
Yup. It's not a coincidence we started winning and keeing clean sheets when Lucas had to play due to Gerrard being injured or suspended. Lovren played well with Wanyama in front of him at Southampton and Sakho looked lost in his first season with only Gerrard in front of him. Manager has to take the blame, not the players much

04 Jul 2015 21:46:16
So when Lovren kicked it up in the air at OT and panicked every time he played it was Brendan's fault? Sure.

The feller played like a complete novice with worse nerves than Mavis Riley.

For the money, that's the worst first season I've ever seen and there's some hot competition.

04 Jul 2015 22:25:22
Boom, you're nitpicking. Lovren has his share of the blame no doubt BUT one can't deny that it was BR's system that give NO protection to CBs, that contributed more to it. It is the manager's job to protect the players by putting the players in situations to succeed and limit their mistakes and BR hasn't done that. On the contrary, BR hangs them out to dry on the pitch in a system that is asking for a right beating. I'm sure Emre Can agrees with me on this. In the end, BR picks the systems and the tactics and on the overall body of work, it's his fault even though he will rather blame me or you for that instead of taking responsibility for it.

05 Jul 2015 08:37:01
Since when do defenders need a good DM in front of them before they can do their job? Is that not a valid excuse for Skrtel? He cops all sorts of abuse while Sakho and Lovren are excused for not having a good DM? Wow, pathetic.

04 Jul 2015 12:18:13
How does everybody feel about the defence ?

All good teams are built from the back: Discuss.

04 Jul 2015 12:46:19
I believe this would be the best back four:
Clyne, Ilori, Sakho, Moreno

I'm not too keen on keeping Migs in goal, but I'm hoping he will up his game next season.

Red Rum

04 Jul 2015 13:16:41
I think it's fair to say Skrtel's struggled to find a partnership with either Lovren or Sakho - leaving you either trying to find another Agger type player to fit alongside him or (and I think this is the way to go) trying to find another CB partnership without him.

I'd personally start with Lovren/Sakho in the new season - this pair performed well against Tottenham if I remember correctly - and then try integrate Illori in cup games or as sub until he's built his confidence in the league (assuming Lovren/Sakho is working). I truly think he's got the potential to be a Varane type in the future and we need to give him a real shot.

Last of all I also think Clyne will help a lot at RB and Moreno hopefully matures in defence, but I think a critical piece of the puzzle is having a CDM to break down play and help cover the CB's if the FB's push forward. This is where Rogers gets it wrong in my opinion, favouring a playmaker over a defensive mid despite playing such clearly attacking FB's who like to bomb forward leaving the defence exposed.

With Hendo/Coutinho in midfield and Firmino/Llalana/Ibe/Sturridge upfront we can clearly afford a true CDM behind them and still score enough goals, in fact I think it will help as Hendo/Coutinho will have more confidence to make those runs to support the front 3.

04 Jul 2015 13:23:41
I'd say if fit, Flanagan should play on the left, Clyne on the right with two of Lovren, Sakho and Ilori in the center.

I actually really rate Lovren, i think he is a good player whose confidence was seriously hammered by a few thing: The price we paid, new teammates, Skrtel, no protection, no Lucas, a keeper who isn't giving out basic instructions, constant change of formation and position, to many new players in the back line and Rodgers labelling him the new leader of the defense.

Moreno i am not convinced about - can't see what he is offering going forward and he is certainly not convincing defensively. He do have time to learn though - but he really look like a player who need some quality coaching. I hope the new setup will help him realise his potential.

04 Jul 2015 13:48:15
I agree Moreno needs some coaching - think could be a great long term option but at the moment he's too one-footed, makes too many defensive errors and he doesn't seem to have the confidence to take on defenders when going forward. Unless he can get in behind with a one-two, he always plays it backwards when it comes out to him on the wide left.

On the other hand, he's pretty useful at crossing the ball and has plenty of pace to get in behind with a give and go, and he busts a gut to get back in defence unlike some others (even if he might be have caused the problem in the first place. )

04 Jul 2015 14:01:43
Like to see Stewart get some preseason game time at LB. If he is better defensively the use him for flat back four. Use Moreno as attacking fullback impact sub and if wing backs are the formation of choice.

04 Jul 2015 14:09:21
In my opinion the most important issue for our defence has to be a change of attitude and of course better coaching. We more or less have the same defenders with the exception of Clyne coming in. Is he enough to stop us conceding goals at an alarming rate? I would not have thought so. Therefore we have to improve who we have from Mingolet, the back 4 and whoever plays DM. It has to come down to the coaches and instilling some sort of confidence into them. Do i believe this can happen from what i have seen last season? No!

04 Jul 2015 14:18:04
I agree with Zimbo and the perfect CDM for the way we play is Lars Bender! He's superb at reading the game and dropping in to cover his FB. We don't need a quarterback just someone who can pass accurately to our playmakers like couts.
Ged

04 Jul 2015 14:29:37
All great points. I think a good defence depends on a good mix of all the things you all have mentioned. A good example is Southampton. They don't have better CB's than we do individually and their keeper isn't better than Mingo. The thing they do have is defensive system and attitude. System being, their CB's are well protected with a solid yet unflashy DM in Wanyama who covers every blade of grass in the defensive third which allows their fullbacks to flood forward at will. This made Clyne and Lovren very good. Put them in BR's system and as we have seen with Lovren, it will be suicide. BR is so obsessed with playing a Busquets type player at DM which is just stupid and brainless because LFC don't play in la Liga hence, that type of player won't work here due to being pressured on the ball every time unlike Busquets who never gets pressed by the opposition. All in all, we need a sound defensive system where the players have the right attitude to defend just like Cheksea defenders do.

04 Jul 2015 15:40:26
Firstly Migs Isn't even one of the top ten goalkeepers in the league. And Our defenders are at all at sea, don't know if it's down to being poor coaching or what but these are international players that can't defend a corner

04 Jul 2015 16:39:01
Clyne Lovren Sakho Flanagan
That would be my choice if Rodgers hadn't brought in Lovren to only play left side even though he is right footed. I think its a big season if we get a solid continuous back four in front of him without Skrtel in it dropping back, or Glen Johnson not even putting tackles in at right back it will be a big help. Would be nice to see Stewart and McLaughlin get a chance at left and right back although we have Wisdom and Enrique as back ups already, incase of injury to Clyne and Moreno, as well as long term injury of Flanagan

04 Jul 2015 16:55:33
Our defence needs a top class dm in front of it, and we already have that- for now anyway.
Where Lucas excels more than most dms is not his tackling (which is excellent).
Its more that he usually manages to find a very quick forward pass when he gets the ball, even under pressure.
Not your 40 yard hollywood balls, but he gets the pressure of our back line and gets opponents onto the back foot again by moving the ball their way with one or two touches, even if only 10 or 15 yards.
Without him we are often overrun in mf and always seemed to be under pressure.
I'm genuinely astonished that what seems so obvious to most people (and is borne out by our much higher loss rate without him) seems to go totally unnoticed by BR.
And I end up wondering just how good his football understanding really is.

04 Jul 2015 16:58:28
Bit harsh there dbol, apart from degea, Thibaut, cech, lloris, krul begovic I don't think anybody is better there in the prem.

04 Jul 2015 11:18:55
Surely this Allan kid werr linked eith would struggle to get a work permit. Or would it be a case for the special talent court thingy.

04 Jul 2015 13:06:37
He might have dual nationality etc.

I'm sure we wouldn't move for him unless he meets the criteria.

04 Jul 2015 15:33:16
Does he need one aged 16?

04 Jul 2015 16:56:11
I thought his grandfather was Irish or something someone said previously.

04 Jul 2015 19:38:39
Oops that's Brooke Lennon, sorry, I'll get my coat.

04 Jul 2015 10:25:38
A little rumour that Higuain could be available for £24m. Bullcrap if you ask me. But if he were i'd expect him togo to Arsenal.

04 Jul 2015 11:00:43
He would want CHL footy, and as far as I know, LFC haven´t shown any interest in the player. If he were to leave, it would be most likely to PSG, Arsenal or Man United.

in terms of ability, he is a better player than Benteke, so I would take him if he were up for grabs.

04 Jul 2015 14:36:05
Benteke is the ONLY target, per the Eds

04 Jul 2015 09:44:28
Not really transfer related, but I have noticed recently that Jordan Henderson seems to be all over the LFC official website, a bit like Gerrard used to be with all the pictures, stories, articles etc.

My guess is he's pretty much cemented as captain.

04 Jul 2015 12:19:03
Skrtel is front and centre on the new kit stuff. Let's hope that means what it did when Suarez was.

04 Jul 2015 08:46:28
With the signings that we have mae you feel this is enough to push us into the top 4 and if so who do you think with drop out

04 Jul 2015 10:25:18
Need another striker then they all need playing in the correct positions.

Then possibly top 4 we will see

04 Jul 2015 10:32:53
Unfortunately it's hard to see us getting in ahead of anyone with the money they are supposed to be spending, if we start well and build momentum who knows, especially with the new coaches there that for me could be the difference

04 Jul 2015 12:07:48
Gmil

Spending loads of money doesn't mean you'll make top 4

We should have got top 4 last season but for Rodgers messing around with tactics and formations

04 Jul 2015 13:27:20
We have the players to make top 4 in my opinion, it's going to come down to how quickly Milner/Clyne/Firmino gel, whether Sturridge can come back from injury and hit form, and whether Rogers can settle on a side and a strategy rather than fumbling around like last season.

04 Jul 2015 14:39:49
Our not making top four was all down to BR and his failures and nothing more because our squad if well managed, is more than able to wreak havoc. Top four is always possible but it all depends on a good preseason, great chemistry and players being played in conditions they will flourish in. And of course, you need a few breaks to go your way.

04 Jul 2015 07:46:44
The players signed seem on paper to be absolute cracking buys/free.

Can the Eds give us any insight as to why this seasons buys have happened so fast and seem to be quality?

We know about the end of season review. Is that the only reason we have acted so decisively or has some one been actively been put in charge of transfer's that has made

a) choosing of a particular player

b) the fast purchase of the identified player?

Something has definitely been different this transfer window and IMO it is for the better.

vrcomp
Y.N.W.A.

{Ed001's Note - the club spent the whole season reviewing mistakes, everything that is happening is a result of the review.}

04 Jul 2015 08:15:21
I've got to say I've been very impressed how we have gone Bout our business this year :) Only the kovacic deal stank on the seasons before.

04 Jul 2015 09:27:15
But they have failed to see the real problem. Rodgers. Houdini wouldn't have got out of that one

04 Jul 2015 09:58:26
Ed 1, how do you feel about the early signings and transfer process?

Happy?

04 Jul 2015 00:15:40
Just wanted to say I'm pleased with signings so far this season. Not sure who's pulling the strings but it's been a good window.
Benteke has his strengths and weaknesses just like any other player, and he would also be a good addition to the starting squad.

If we play rubbish football and the results aren't as we hope, it won't be down to the quality of players, tactics have let us down in the past and could potentially let us down next season. Let's hope not.

Let's get behind the lads, the team is solid with quality in all areas. That much we can't deny. Although the keeper, is a problem