Liverpool Banter Archive December 03 2014

03 Dec 2014 22:40:42
Dear Ed's. Do you think that any of these players: Dunn, Yesil, Rossiter, Jordan Williams, Sinclair, Brannagan, Brad Smith, Lloyd Jones and Ward. Have any chances of getting a run in the first team? Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - Not this season.}

After the 2 hattricks, any chance of Aspas staying in liverpool next year?. Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - I wouldn't think so.}

And next season, with other duff transfers, we will again see the kids miss the chance of first team football. Anytime I think of our transfers I want the management to leave.

Brad Smith was recalled from his loan because negotiations between his side and LFC on a new contract have stalled. I suspect he will leave if this cannot be resolved soon.

Yesil's chance at LFC neveer came and I think the injuries he suffered has been the main reason for this. I think he will leave this summer.

03 Dec 2014 20:46:07
Some guy called Aspas I think. plays for Seville just scored a Hatrick in 3 minutes. Might be worth a punt in January!?

I heard he's a specialist at corner taking as well

Have to say that was another daft thing the club did. He looked really sharp in preseason, then seemed to have all of the confidence kicked out of him, hardly got any minutes, and off he went. So many weird transfers have gone on, immediately after we purged the last lot of weird transfers left over from previous managers. We not only didn't learn, but seem to have become even more daft. I have no idea how so many supposedly intelligent people, apparently taking advice from other apparently knowledgeable and intelligent people, can keep making such daft decisions? The mind boggles, and I really hope they pull themselves together. Sorry for the sidetrack rant, but there you go.

Just saw the highlights. Didn't quite fit in at Liverpool due to his size and lack of opportunity, but you can't argue with his talent. You don't score three in a game at top level by fluke

I like Aspas and thought he would get a run of games which he did at the start of last season and was decent. The reason he`s getting hatricks is simple: HE IS ACTUALLY PLAYING and not rotting on the bench with a manager who hasn`t a clue how to operate in the TW. BR never gave him a chance to do last year EVEN when we were winning 4 nil last season and BUT wants to make it look like he must b bad if he`s not playing yet Aspas was in Del Bosque`s plans for the Confed Cup with Spain. The thing is that BR buys players and tells us how good they`ll be then doesn`t play them because he doesn`t trust them. Total BS! Like Aspas. Alberto, Borini and their like, they are good players who need time and games to settle and show their worth. They will never be good if they don`t play. In summary, if they fail it`s because BR has no idea what he is doing. Period!

04 Dec 2014 08:07:44
For gods sake guys this is ridiculous. He's scored 7 goals since joining them - 6 of them were in two hatricks against the team he played yesterday, which are a lower second division club in the two cup legs! He also scored vs Oldham with us 0- scoring vs lower divisions isn't a sign of class (his other goal was in the Europa Cup vs an obscure team from Iceland or Norway I think). He is used mostly from the bench by them and doesn't really look like scoring there. And he had plenty of time with us, about 14 starts all told, and we had piss all to show for it. Aspas just wasn't good enough, and as much as BR has been annoying me recently talking about how Aspas deserved more time or was misused is completely without merit. Well done for him and I hope he can push on from here, but he's yet to score vs a top flight side and it's almost christmas.

Hopefully there should be one or 2 clubs interested in him for next season.

Red Rum

I agree with "hjikle".

It was just BANTER! More than obvious he's not good enough for Liverpool else he'd still be here.
Considering our lack of goal scorers just now I thought everyone would get that. Always one person who takes it seriously. Haaaha

04 Dec 2014 12:16:32
Wasn't actually talking about your post nomisyoung, obviously it was banter. Read the rest of the thread after you started it

I stand by what I posted. BR gives the players he buys no chance and then flogs them off w/o us ever seeing what they can do. That is the fact, period.

While I don't necessarily think Aspas was a good fit for us, reality is he hardly played either- 380 minutes in the league across the entire season across 14 appearances. Balotelli already has near double that amount. I do think he should have been given a bit more time on the pitch otherwise I can't for the life of me figure out what we were paying ~£7M for.

My point exactly, RDL. You can`t not play someone or give hm a chance to prove himself and at the same time, say he isn`t good enuff because he wasn`t playing after you spent 7m on him. Sounds like a politician wanting to have it both ways, IMO.

Bought as a striker, played as a winger, had the misfortune of SaSaS here at the same time as him.

03 Dec 2014 20:38:17
Interesting story from carra saying suarez is in the top 5 of players to have played for liverpool. I have mixed emotions on the subject but that is purely based on the nonsense that he carried on with on and off the pitch.

If based solely on pure talent then it is undeniable that he is one of the best footballers to have played for us. Is he better than king kenny, keegan, rush, barnes, fowler, souness ? Its subjective to a large degree because they all played in different eras but for me he has to be at least in the top ten.

Be interested in your views ed001 as i know you also have mixed feelings about the lad.

03 Dec 2014 21:07:52
I don't compare Suarez with any of the Liverpool Strikers in the past and I being a Fowler fan through out.
But I haven't seen any one better than Suarez.
He could do anything as I heard quiet a lot say Kenny could do anything.
With the current team and Suarez, We would have been on the top of the table.

On talent alone, Suarez is the best forward/all-round talent to ever play for LFC, hands down!

Sorry red but you do a disservice to the truly great talents that have graced the anfield turf. On skill alone then barnes beats him hands down and he scored just as spectacular goals over a more consistent period. if basing it on goals scored you can't get any better than rush. pure natural goal scoring ability and its fowler, application and determination to win souness and dalglish spring to mind. Hands down, no my friend, like i said its very subjective, top 5? Yes i will concede that.

{Ed001's Note - on talent it would be between Barnes, Dalglish and Fowler, all of which performed over a longer period of time for our club without spending their entire time trying to get out of the club. On goal scoring it would be Rush or Aldridge. All 5 of those were better servants to the club as well. Then there are old timers like Liddell, who I never saw but I trust my grandad when he would tell me that Liddell was even better. Suarez does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as any of those. Too much time suspended, too much time being a total and complete prick in the media and too much time trying to *censored* the club for his own gain.}

I just said the talent I have seen from beginning to the end of his LFC career. The rest are legends. He isn`t.

I agree with you on most points ed, but suarez was the most talented allround striker we ever had so many different types of goals and work rate.
Gerrard the best attacking midfielder we ever had.
Souness best defensive mid we ever, what a player he was.
Barnes best winger in the world for several years.
Hansen top top defender our beckenbauer.
Malta.

VLR is in agreement and I agree with him too. The best thing w/ LS was that he wasn`t world class when we got him. WE BUILT HIM! And I will say again, he is on talent alone, the best all round forward we have ever had. He could do literally everything. Off the field, complete wackjob who needs mental help. On the field, a complete genius. Yeah, WE BUILT HIM!

I think the best players in the world prove they are the best players by winning trophies for the teams that they play for.
As good as Suarez was for us what did we win with him in the side?
A league cup.
That's it. And this is also the reason why I don't rate Agger or Reina as being great players for us either.
We won an FA cup and a league cup with them in our side.
Compare that trophy haul with Daglish, Hansen etc.
And I repeat. If you are a truly great player then you will have the medals to back it up over that period of time.
Too many frauds at Liverpool.
Too many players who the fans worship who actually have done nothing to earn that level of hero worship.
Suarez for example, Was the reason we lost the league because Gerrard slipped or was it because Suarez missed the first 8 games of the season?
Agger Reina and Luis all fall into that group in my opinion.
I like them but they are not legends for Liverpool in my opinion.
In Suarez's case. Beardsley was better anyway.

Still a debatable point even when tagging the forward label to the argument red. I think because he is fresh in our minds its difficult to compare him against the other extremely talented players that have played for us. Not discounting your opinion but will have to agree to disagree.

No prob, John Barnez who by the way, was a complete beast of a player and the most skillful winger England has ever had, IMO.

03 Dec 2014 20:08:57
Greetings Eds.

EMS.

With respect to your below Post on the World class category,
AGUERO is world class and on par with Suarez and Ronaldo.

I'd struggle to argue that mate.

He is something special. Real Madrid will call calling next summer I'm sure. Benzema is suffering from a condition called "didntcostsixtymillionplus syndrome" and therefore needs to be replaced by a galactico.

Aguero is a beast and IMO, the closest thing to Suarez and has been RM`s target for years now. He is world class and has been since he was a teenager w/ Independiente in Argentina.

04 Dec 2014 05:40:02
The irony here is Athletico Madrid are blessed with the best strikers in sometime now and they replace one with another.

Sturridge would take some time to reach his level.

03 Dec 2014 19:35:04
Crazy question: could Stevie play as lead striker? Not a long term solution, but I don't think Lambert can continue to play every game for 90 minutes (isn't he supposed to have a back problem?). He isn't fast enough perhaps, and his hold up play would be lacking, but he can anticipate play, and draw defender, and score goals in the box.

03 Dec 2014 20:09:42
Coop

Mate, If a 32 year old Lambert couldn't, You expect a 34 year Gerrard could?

I love it when SG gets in the box but attack works best obviously when more players attack en masse. Lone striker only seems to work with fantastic talented players e.g. Suarez, Aguero.

Agree about the age thing, but Gerrard regularly plays 90 mins so he clearly keeping himself in shape. Rickie was supposed to have some back issue. To be honest, I would choose Stevie as striker over Balotelli

03 Dec 2014 21:11:06
Coop

There is a correction mate, Gerrard walks close to 60 mts during a game deployed at QB, The reason we are overrun in the midfield.
Have you seen him pressing high up recently?

I partly agree with you. He has been strolling too much this season. He isn't in the phase of his career where he will keep giving 100 % when things are going bad (like they have for him since the 'slip'). however, he seems to be ignited by potential for a move (yes, I am reading too much into the new contract issue. ) so perhaps we will see some real passion next few games. Surely he knows now that he will never win the PL playing for the Reds

Gerrard is better making late runs into the box, just like his goal last vs Leicester.

04 Dec 2014 09:48:02
I was thinking this the other day. Perhaps as a deep-lying false nine, playing centrally between and just behind two strikers/flankers such as Sterling and Sturridge in an adapted 4-3-3

03 Dec 2014 18:33:42
Evening ed's i take it my post from this morning has gone because i've wound someone up so tight they've replied in an abusive manner?

{Ed002's Note - I imagine so.}

03 Dec 2014 14:59:51
Notwithstanding the people who like Rodgers. I have seen enough of his efforts to show he is not good enough.

Things will have to change if we are to move forward.

Apart from a goalkeeper and possibly a striker. There are enough players at Liverpool.

If Rodgers is made to leave in January. What are our options ?

I think Klinsmann would be a good temporary manager until the summer. Then either Klopp or Benitez to take over.

{Ed002's Note - Why on earth wold Klinsmann leave his job to run Liverpool just for a few months?}

03 Dec 2014 16:12:48
Well, a temporary manager would be needed. Rather like Rafa at Chelsea before he moved to Napoli.

I doubt whether anybody would be available on a permanent basis in January.

I get the impression that Klinsmann might be available. Depending on what he is doing in the USA? Some here have mentioned that Klinsmann has connections with FSG.
He did a lot of good work with the German national team.

January or the Summer. It is all down to availability and desire for the job.

If you are happy with Rodgers staying until the end of the season fine. I have seen no evidence that he is likely to turn things around.
I really don't have to repeat the many comments here that indicate the sooner he leaves the better. Editor No. 1 has made enough valid arguments for a change. As ever, the results are the deciding factor. No change and the season could be a disaster. The spending of £100 million has been poor and wasteful.

{Ed002's Note - The point is Klinsmann has a job already.}

I live in the States Yuri and Klinsmann is highly regarded this side of the pond. He rubs a lot of people the wrong way but they aren't looking to get rid of him any time soon. he's building a footballing infrastructure here and it will take time to happen but when it does happen the USA will be World Cup contenders for a very long time to come. Also he has a beautiful life in sunny California, with an American wife and he won't swap that for anything. Not even the 'This is Anfield sign'. Apart from the fact he's not the most tactically astute guy in the world so let's leave the Klinsmann bandwagon parked right here Yuri.

Why don't you just have a bit of faith? All the Rodgers baiting is getting Boring, give the man a chance.

I reckon he will go to spurs down the line if he comes to manager over here

BR`Advocate, you are on the money, bro! I live in the U.S too and Klinsman is a king in the land of the blind. Americans don`t really care for footie because the all majority enjoy NFL and College footie along w/ college basketball. With all this going on, Klinsman doesn`t get the media spotlight coaches in these sports get hence, he can be a jerk and IMO, an average manager and nobody would care. He is tactically limited and frankly, a blow-hard in a country that doesn`t know any better and who waits every four years to be a football I ean, soccer fan.

P/S: What part of the States do you live? I live in Ohio.

03 Dec 2014 14:38:30
Eds

Quick question
Is it correct that Liverpool are facing a hefty fine from the FA due to fans encroaching onto the pitch at homes games?
Believe it is an issue particularly related to the 6-yrd box?

thanks

{Ed002's Note - I don't know, sorry.}

Aye some fella named Simon keeps loitering around the six yard box, messing about and generally just putting defenders and other players off. needs sorting.

LOL, Kamakris!

03 Dec 2014 13:01:15
If you could all sign any 2 players and sell any 2 players in January (try to be realistic) then who would it be?

Ignore whether or not we're actually interested etc. Just try and pick players you deem to be reasonable suggestions e.g. not Messi, Kroos and Thiago Silva!

Personally, I'd sell Mingolet and replace him with Cech.

I'd sell Enrique and just promote the likes of Smith, McLaughlin, Flanagan etc (No point in selling Johnson when we'd get nothing for him and he won't leave anyway).

I'd then look to sign De Rossi. He is a known fan of Gerrard and Liverpool and we can't rely on Lucas to play the next 30-40 games.

I wouldn't do anything else though due to finances.

Outs: Mingolet and Enrique

Ins: Cech and De Rossi

De Rossi brings instant experience at the highest level in a position we lack numbers. At 31 he will likely not cost a bomb and won't hold back any of our youth players. He could comfortably rotate with Lucas in the role allowing Gerrard to focus and doing what he did against Leicester; taking teams apart.

I'd probably try and get Markovic a loan to the Dutch or Portuguese leagues as well. He looks lost in the Prem right now.

Just a bit of fun lads!

03 Dec 2014 13:23:42
Outs: Joe Allen & Simon Mignolet
Allen though a good player is just surplus to requirements rather give Rossiter a chance plus be will fetch more than Enrique
Mignolet well he is just bad

Ins: Neto and Kramer
Neto bcos he would cost little and I doubt we have anh chance of cech. He is not the best but a mile better than Mignolet
Kramer rate him highly. Might be a bit expensive though

I'd recall ibe (if possible) and losn out markovic

03 Dec 2014 13:29:16
Like this post,

Realistic signings that potentially could happen what be a goalkeeper and a DM,

I would like Alex Song and Cech orrrrrr

Clyne and joe hart

Mignolet is no where near good enough and for me Cech would be a quality replacement for him.

Up front we are short on fire power, Balotelli and Borini are a waste of a wage in my opinion so for me Lacazette would be a great addition at the expense of one/both of those 2.

Red Rum

03 dec 2014 13:38:35
sell;
mignolet
balotelli
buy:
begovic
ings/berahino

03 Dec 2014 13:44:51
As much as I would want to say Markovic for Kono, being realistic would probably go for:

Sell:
Borini
Mignolet

Really like borini but don't think he is a BPL player and isn't a wide forward, plus we did get offered £12-14m for him and if he went back to Spain/Italy think it would be best for his career.

Mignolet, tbh a toss up between him and jones but would get a few million for him and probably be lucky to one million for jones

Buy:
Lacazette (if possible)
Cech (loan)

Lacazette wide forward with pace, trickery, and scores goals. Would suit our style well and could play up top if needed - bit iffy if we could get him but could get 15-18m from sales so not impossible.

Cech loan - no real explanation needed, would walk into any team par chelsea. Just don't think a buy is possible as knows in the summer will have his pick of clubs. Loan would suit chelsea (take points of rivals) and player (gives him half a season to show he is still class and get him a summer transfer)

Tbh would probably loan Markovic as well, feel a bit sorry for the lad but just think it was a daft buy.

{Ed002's Note - Chelsea won't be loaning out Cech.}

Outs: Mignolet and Balo
Ins: Cech and Lacazette

My reasoning:
Mignolet is quite obvious, I´m having trouble telling if he is a goalkeeper or a streaker. Balotelli was a panic buy who just doesn´t understand the basics of teamwork. Also, he is plain dumb.

Clearly there is a spot open if migs leaves and I think Cech would be the best choice atm.
To win games you most outscore your opponent, atm we rely on a 19y old, a 32y old with back problems, sturridge who might be out the rest of the season due to injuries and Borini who simply doesn´t have the abilities. No matter what, we need a goalscorer and Lacazette seems like a great option.

As you mention we can´t rely on lucas to play the next 30-40 matches, so maybe Can, Rossiter or even Lovren could play as DM; I know Rossiter is more of a box-to-box player and playing; Lovren was just an idea, as he´s piss poor as a defender he might be better as an dm.

As much as I want these transfers to happen, I am sure neither will happen; I´m sure the board have no confidence in either the transfer comittee or brendan after all the failed transfer windows.

Let Can have a run of games. I think he is a big talent. He is also just simply big. Sometimes we just lack that basic attribute, ala against Palace.

I would also rather try to promote some of the younger players, e.g. rossiter, smith, etc. and see what they are made of.

Although I would not say no to Cech but I imagine the chances of us landing him are precisely 0.

03 Dec 2014 14:17:27
one can only dream they would. alternatively us buying a defensive coach wouldn't be a bad shout either, then again won't happen either

Outs: Balotelli, Enrique
Ins: Okazaki, Gonalons

Son or Lacazette I'd prefer to Okazaki but I don't know what the deal is with Can and Son and I think Lacazette would cost a small fortune at this time.

I'd also sack Archterberg and give Mignolet the rest of the season with a new coach to see if he can improve. He is a good shot stopper and I'm reluctant to throw that away without at least trying a new coach first.

Send Markovic back on loan to Benfica, if possible, if not somewhere else.

Sell:
Mignolet
Balotelli
Borini
- Should free up some funds

Buy:
Begovic
Carlos Vela

In: Sissoko (Newcastle) and Trapp
Out: Enrique, Johnson, Allen, Balotelli, Mignolet, Skrtel, Borini.

How about using the talent in the reserves instead of wasting money we don't have and sell the players blocking their development ala markovic, balloteli, borini, enrique etc.

03 Dec 2014 11:51:41
I'm really suprised by how few people consider Sturridge to be world class. Fair enough like, you're all entitled to your opinions.

Last season though (bearing in mind he struggled with injuries) he scored more non-penalty goals than Aguero, Costa, Benzema, Lewandowski, Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, Cavani etc.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree because I think if he'd took 12 penalties last season instead of Gerrard, people would have very different opinions. (25 goals in all competitions still)

I hope he can get fit and stay fit so 55% of the fan base eat humble pie because for me, when fit, he is one of the best out and out strikers in the world. I can only assume that people are holdi g his injury record against him because 21 league goals and 9 league assists wins you the golden boot most years. He was just unlucky that Suarez had the best season in premier league strikers history (31 goals without penalties).

03 Dec 2014 12:33:01
Fully agree. But I also think with English players, peoples natural perceptions of them is that they are better then they really are at the lower end or worse than they really are at the top end. They also get judged on England performances which is a consistent mess

I think it personally depends on your definition of world class. For me you can't use the phrase "World Class" without discussing Ronaldo and Messi. They are world class.

By that standard Sturridge is not world class. Pure and simple. He is a very good striker but I do not think he is world class.

I also do not think you can really use just one season to determine whether or not a player is world class. Or just use the scoring stats for one season. Back in the day would you say Kevin Phillips was world class?

Good post Wassa, fully agree

I'd prefer to wait and see if he can stay injury free for a while and do it on his own, without Suarez. Granted his goal/games ratio is fantastic but he needs to stay fit to be considered a level above. For me anyway.

I think he has the pace, the strength, skill and quality to be as good as those, just needs to be injury free, so hope he is back soon.

That is a good point Wassa. For me, world class is being in the top 10 players in the world in your position. I'd say the likes of Sturridge, Suarez, Cavani, Ibra, Lewandowski, Costa, Aguero, Benzema, Mandzukic and Messi are world class (going with the majority that Messi is a striker). For me, Sturridge when fit is easily in the top half of that pack and certainly deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as most of them except maybe Suarez and Messi.

If your definition of World class is the best one or two players in the world in your position then yes I agree, Sturridge is not. Players like Messi, Suarez, Iniesta, Ronaldo etc have surpassed world class for me though and are just on another planet. Some will remember that I think Messi is over rated, but he still has an incredible natural gift. It's his application that makes me question him.

That's an interesting way of looking at it EMS. But I don't think lists on their own can adequately cover it.

I don't know what facts you were using to support that top 10 but based on the names in that list I assume you were only considering European based players? Whilst as a general rule the best players do tend to play in Europe it can't be a sure fire rule.

I also have doubts on that method because by that reckoning Mandzukic is a world class player. Which just isn't true or right let's be honest.

I also don't think that would necessarily work for other positions, e.g. midfielders, etc.

The definition of world class is someone with a skill or attribute that puts him or her in the highest class in the world (give or take). That doesn't really help really does it. Some people will try to quantify that with goals. Some with trophies. Some would also see it more as a subjective term, e.g. (and I apologise unreservedly for this comparison) it is kind of similar to asking if singer / entertainer has the x-factor.

World class players, for me, are ones that can single handedly win you a game. Players that are consistently excellent at what they do. In my opinion Daniel had a great season in a team full of confidence playing really well. Is he world class though? Not for me, at least not yet but I think he has all the tools to be.

Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, Ibra and few more I can't think of right now are world class players.

You can call also call Benzema, Hazard, Toure, Aguero world class players and Sturridge fits in this bracket.

I don't think Sturridge can be called world-class tbh. He has had one excellent season and he's 24-5 years old. Whether Sturridge will be the same without Suarez remains to be seen imo.

I have two criteria for being 'world-class'. Allow me to explain my way of thinking about the term.

First. For me, to be world class, a player must show that he can operate at a consistently quality level for years - not only domestically, but also at a higher level, whether through European Club Football or at international level.

As an example, I believe that Suarez is world-class as he has been a star at every level he has played in - prolific for Ajax, a world cup-star in 2010, player of the tournament in the Copa America win, amazing for Liverpool ever since Kenny signed him. More than any player, he raised the level of the team and almost brought them to the title.

As the second point. I also think a player can show he's world-class even if he never got play much in the Champions League - so long as they can show their quality at international level - or vice-versa.

I'm sure many would agree that Bale or the likes of Jari Litmanen have respect as world-class talents, despite never playing at the highest stage of international level.

Likewise - I feel that the fact that Suarez never had the opportunity at CL level can be overlooked as his performances at international level have showcased his world-class abilities.

For me - that's why the likes of Le Tissier or Cantona always fell short of being world-class - they never made a consistent impact at the higher levels of European or international football.

LeTissier had the excuse of being at S'ton, but Cantona was always poor when man-marked in Europe. To be fair, I add Fowler to that list too - he had the potential, but it faded away.

Sturridge is class just not quiet world class.

But give Hume a few more years and hopefully injury free and I'm sure he can step up to the next level.

03 Dec 2014 16:13:45
See your point EMS and think Wassa makes a good point as well. But IMO i don't think he is world class, don't get me wrong over the past 18 months I would say he has been as good as any striker in the world.

But 18 months isn't long enough to be world class, to me that is a striker who has been playing at a high level for 3 + years.

If he continues scoring at this rate and stays fit for a year or so then maybe I think you have a point as he does have everything you want in a striker (except maybe a weak foot).

Saying that I don't think Di Maria is world class (loses possession far too much for my liking and just seems all over the place) and Hazard is just about world class IMO as has been playing at a high level for a bit over 2 seasons now.

depends on your opinion of world class, but for me has been playing at that level just not for long enough.

Sturridge's goal scoring record without Suarez in the side is actually slightly higher than with Suarez in the side, although admittedly the sample size is smaller. I'd also say he's had more than just one good season, but rather a good season and a half with us along with a decent spell at Chelsea and a remarkable, albeit short, run at Bolton.

As to whether he's world class or not, it's really just a debate over semantics for me. He's clearly quite good though and I really miss watching him play.

Also, EMS - I put it to you like this.
Would you have considered Kevin Phillips to be world class?

Being top-scorer in the league for Sunderland is a fine achievement - even more impressive than Sturridge's last season, but do you really think that made Kevin Phillips world class?

Of course not. I'm pretty sure you would agree with me there. (I hope so!)

I agreed with you in your debate with Waro down the page on Gerrard - but I must disagree here as I feel it is you who is misrepresenting the views of others a bit here. Especially with your 'humble pie' comments.

I do not think he is world-class, but that is not 'dissing' Sturridge or putting him down - it is simply making a fair appraisal. I'm sure many agree with this appraisal, and with good reason to.

He showed last season that he has great potential and ability. The idea that people would 'eat humble pie' if he does well at a higher level is pretty off tbh. Of course the fans know how good he is, and hope he can continue in this vein.

Has he shown the potential to be world-class? Of course!

But It is simply that he has not yet shown himself to be world-class. They are different things.

I also mean this politely, but perhaps you have a lower expectations of what you deem to be world-class than in the criteria that I outlined.

For me, one good season in England doesn't make you world-class. not by a long shot. Even Heskey and Collymore have managed that before - and Lovren must be the new Franco Baresi (or wasn't that Chris Perry? or was it Titus Bramble?).

Also, your comment on Messi is ludicrous tbh. On any level. It makes your argument on this point seem to lack credibility tbh! Sorry m8!

I did have your back in the debate with Waro though - and I still stand with you on that! - so we can't agree on everything I guess! But I hope I did a bit to bring our views closer together here.

I just saw that Wassa-lfc brought up Phillips too.

Great minds m8, eh. lol.

I think world class is clearly 100% subjective after this discussion. Firstly it depends on how you personally interpret the word, and secondly it depends on your opinions on a player.

Therefore I have no right to say anybody is wrong. I'm more than satisfied with the replies lads. You've all made a good case for your opinions. We will have to respectfully agree to disagree though. I genuinely say that without any malice though. You all presented your arguments excellently.

Me feelings on Messi are mixed mate. He is a joy to watch but I would hate to play with him.

His attitude is appalling and he is a bully. He struts around doing nothing for 85 minutes then wins the game in a moment of magic. It's like starting with a 2 or 3 goal headstart but playing with 10 men. You know he will score or create out of nothing eventually. But you need to work damn hard whilst you wait for him to tie his shoe laces.

I'd be lying if I denied his talent, but if he has an off day and doesn't produce a moment of magic, he literally offers absolutely nothing. At least Ronaldo trues hard to make things happen wnd unselfishly makes runs. Not to mention Ronaldo's commitment on the training pitch. If Messi applied himself as well as Ronaldo, I have no doubt he'd have scored 500 goals by now.

Just thought I'd explain that point a bit more. I think he's over rated, but I still think he is bloody good. If you know what I mean.

Assists don't come into golden boot 1stly
in 5 out of 20 seasons, 21 goals is enough, no most years there.

I judge world class on a few things, could he walk into any team, would people rush to buy him if he were on the market, has he done it consistently.

For me if you put sturridge out there for bids.
chelsea, city, utd, barca, real, PSG, etc would not come in for him.

If we put ibra, costa, ronaldo falcao out there I'm of the opinion most would be interested.

If any one thinks I don't like sturridge they can go back and look at me defending his original purchase, citing how good he looked when he played at bolton etc. Do I think he's world class though. NO

03 Dec 2014 10:55:38
Here's the problem. Defenders knocking it about to each other especially in the first half normally when they are marked so they have to pass back to Mig which never ends well. Is this because they've been told to do this or because of no available pass forward. Are people hiding not wanting the ball or just generally not moving so marked out of the game?

Also clearing the ball. Have they been told to just knock it 10-15 yards so inviting pressure because no one seems to wish to put their foot through it anymore just to give us some breathing space.

03 Dec 2014 09:42:43
Greetings eds,
I want your opinion on this.
Who do u see playing upfront at the moment beside lambert while balo and danny out?
Obviously BR is not willing to give borini a chance.
I don't excpect him to play. and lambert must get some rest now for a game at least.
Do u see any of the academy stepping up?

Many thanx

{Ed001's Note - Why does Lambert need a rest?}

Correct me if i'm wrong ed001, i thought he has some back problems and needs to be managed? Something like Bellamy?

I thought he was managed by his training schedule? similar to ledley king whereby he barely trains so that he can play on matchday?

If he`s fit, he should b playing, period.

Correct me if i'm wrong ed001, i thought he has some back problems and needs to be managed? Something like Bellamy?

{Ed001's Note - he does, but that can be managed by resting him during the week, like many other pros have done before.}

True ed001. either way, i'm all with starting Lambert again. we are playing much better with him.

03 Dec 2014 09:32:16
Lambert comes into the team and we start winning and looking a little better, what should we do about ballo?

Lambert, Lucas and Toure have made the difference, also playing Gerrard in his best position.

Red Rum

Let him sit on the bench, suck on a lolly like a little spoilt child, until he learns to put in a shift and holds his head up and needs to understand his career is at stake think he will retire before he is 30 a bit like collymore does not love the game enough.

03 Dec 2014 11:32:13
have to agree. Work hard in training, build an understanding with team mates, listen to the coaches, keep his name out of the media, and wait for his chance.

Still think he has the physique for this league and is a talented player (would probably be a much better player by now if he actually put more effort it) but hasn't improved since he was first at City when he was 20.

Were early signs he had changed and was trying at the start of the season but seems to gone back. Fingers crossed I am wrong as think him and Sturridge could actually form a good partnership.

Sell him. he has shown no desire to work hard, be a better player or save is flagging career - cutting our losses quickly is in the best interests of the club.

Its more to do with not playing Gerrard in the important role of protecting the back four than it is playing him further up field.

03 Dec 2014 08:48:08
To analyse last night, i think although there are improvements were still imballanced. If sturidge returns i think we will look far more dynamic with attacking threat from sterling on the left and sturridge on the right as well as some sort of aerial threat in terms fo lambert. He can hold the ball up and gives us an option from wide positions other than let's pass it across the edge of the penelty area. The defence still looks like panic stations and i wished lucas would look to move the ball forward when he recieves it rather than a quick pass back to much less able passers like johnson and skrtel. Migs, Johnson, Skrtel all create pressure on the team by slow play and poor descisions so i can only hope those players are replaced in the starting 11

I understand that you would play Sterling, Sturridge and Lambert at the same time, but playing Sturridge out wide is a waste of his abilities. If you want to utilize him, then let him and Lambert play up front with Sterling behind them

Its not that sturridge would be a winger, he naturally likes playing wide right and attacking in from that position as well as making runs in behind. Lambert would be the pivot and the the new SS would make the runs and stretch the defence.

03 Dec 2014 07:52:58
As an aside, I thought Lee Mason was pathetically poor yesterday, as usual. The number of times he refused to award clear fouls on Raheem was ridiculous. He is really a blind fool who gave pity fouls to Leicester on a number of occasions and surely he must be called up by the authorities for such an embarrassing performance?

03 Dec 2014 08:08:58
Absolutely in agreement. I was quite surprised he had the balls to send off their captain so biased was he all evening

03 Dec 2014 08:10:05
Whilst I agree, I did feel a little sorry with him for the Gerrard penalty. It was clearly a penalty - keeper missed the ball and took out Gerrard chasing it. However there wasn't malice in it and its horrible to have to send a player off for that. Still think the red card should be optional not mandatory.

I generally agree although I am not 100% convinced about Gerrard penalty. Also I think our guys somtime fall too easily, not because they dive or anything like that but because they run into wall of defenders with no purpose. We are a bit soft this season, lose a lot of 50/50 or find ourselves on the ground too eaily.

The goalkeeper was the last man, i know it was kinda harsh on him, especially given they've already had one player out.

but exercising judgement on whether to give a red or not would just cause inconsistencies in referee's decision. set a blueprint, and follow it. he was the last man, he took out Gerrard.

just my opinion anyway, you win some you lose some i guess in terms of referee-ing. Sterling wasnt given his fouls but they were given a red card.

Honestly thought he did alright. Gerrard for me was no penalty, I'd call it shoulder to shoulder-ish. Raheem didn't get a couple of calls he might should have, but honestly the kid was falling over constantly (and grabbing the ball as he always does) so I can see why he didn't get much in his favor.

03 Dec 2014 00:36:22
Hello to all the EDS and fellow REDS

It's amusing and sad at the same time to see all the Lucas critics now become his biggest fans!

Lucas has always been a class act. During KK reign it was Lucas' injury that derailed our great run of games and before that in he played a major role in Rafa's 'nearly' season. This is a player who has overcome two horrible injuries, worked his socks off, never moaned and worked his way back. Again. Now I read people 'hope' BR keeps him! Well I tell you, IMO, if BR gets rid of him then it will be time for BR to go, because he will have done a complete job of destroying a great team. I don't want to go into BR's methods or transfers etc. Just to say that with Lucas we are a safer team.
IMO, one of the best DM in the world, never mind Europe of EPL.

Good but laboured win. Leicester could've upset us, so let's not get carried away. Mignolet needs our support, NOT our criticism.

YNWA

P.S. Well done, Lambert mate.

{Ed001's Note - criticism is the way people find out what they are doing wrong. If we never criticised, how would they know they need to improve? What Mignolet needs is to be replaced with a top class keeper, supporting him is not going to turn him into one.}

The GK coach is not hacking it atm and if he can`t fix Migs then either of them or both should be gone.

Could not have put it better Ed001. Its strange how fans seem to treat footballers different than normal people. Parents criticize their children if they fail their exams, employers kick their subordinates out if they fail to do their job properly etc. So why should it be any different for footballers? Migs has obviously failed at LFC on a consistent basis, so he needs to be dropped because he simply is not good enough for LFC. He is just another of Brendan's transfer disasters and supporting him is not going to make him a better keeper. Its too late for him, he is not going to improve because he has been coached in a particular way during his youth training days and its kind of difficult for GKs to adapt their game to a completely different side. Migs would be good for a team that defends deep, but for a team like LFC looking to play an expansive game he is simply the wrong choice.

IranRed in London, if Mignolet cannot handle criticism then he should not be a LFC player in the first place. LFC requires leaders and strong personalities, not weak minded individuals. U do not come to a club like LFC to learn or improve, u come here to show what u have learned at lesser clubs and win things.

Where channel are you watching this expansive football on you speak of? Every time I turn the TV on to watch us play its EXPENSIVE not expansive. It costs me a kings ransom in the States to view the garbage Rogers and the group are serving up to boot I have to endure Robbie Mustoe and Robbie Earle.

03 Dec 2014 05:58:03
I am not a huge fan of Lucas and he has his limitations like Henderson.
Lucas is static and much like traditional DM, who does the simple job well ( Barry, Nigel dejong, Masch )
Lucas lacks pace and is not a great passer.
I would sell him provided FSG bring in a top class Player like Matic or Schniderlin who is much more than just a DM.

Ed01, this one to you. I wasn't happy with Henderson deployed as a CM throughout. What's your call?

{Ed001's Note - stick with Lucas, he is a far better passer than he is given credit for and is largely responsible for the team's recent return to winning ways. He is not perfect, he lacks pace, but we have no one else even close to his level in that role and not a hope in hell of bringing in a 'Matic' as there is no money left in the pot. It would require the club taking on even more debt, when Lucas is perfectly capable of filling the spot for now. If we hadn't wasted so much on players we didn't need in the summer, instead brought in Medel or similar, then we could have looked to move Lucas on if needed. Though I would say he has a good few years left in him and he is the kind of personality I would want kept round the club, he sets a great example.}

03 Dec 2014 07:04:39
Agreed ed01, now where does that leave Hendeson?
A traditional 4-2-3-1 with Lucas and Allen sitting in the middle with Gerrard / Countinho as a CAM?
Henderson for me is not a CM.

{Ed001's Note - Henderson is much better than Allen, so why would you not want him alongside Lucas as a traditional box to box mid? He offers pace and energy, plus a decent range of passing and vision.}

Henderson has been crap this season just dosnt seem to do anything and when he shoots the bloke in row z is getting ready to catch it. I just think he is not good enough for liverpool if he plays how he is. If rodgers got his head out his ass and played his signings like lallana and can all time we would be much better

I really don't see why we should play Allen when we play Lucas. Henderson, Can, Lallana are better options when we have Lucas.

How could anyone want to sell Lucas? He is the only DM we have. I thought Toure could be back up in that role.

Look at the stats. Lucas has played the last two games and we won both. He didn't play the previous ones and look what happened. I'm not saying he's the only reason we won but think about it.

We are a better team with lucas in the side and for the DM position there is no one at the club who comes close - selling him to buy another expensive player would be us throwing money away AGAIN - he should be kept and starting whenever fit.

Only an incompetent manager would get rid of a leader and great example like Lucas. He has his flaws and like Ed said, is a good example and a great passer of the ball. You don`t play for Brazil multiple times if you suck at your job on the field of play.

02 Dec 2014 21:41:17
The academy is simple if you are good enough you will come in the first team and if your not.you.will.leave! Name me a player who has the.left the.academy.and.gone.on to bigger and better things?

Why do players like canos, cribellum, ojo, sterling, Ibe, dandy come to us if we have this shocking reputation?

You say other.managers give.a. Chance to there players, yeah that's usually because.there.the exceptional ones in.there.academy.lol

And 16/17/18/19 is still to.young if.your.not.going to.be a world! Gerrard, rooney etc.

Also the likes of.lampard, wilshire, sturridge,, kross, lahm, Beckham, just to name a few all had loans before they.broke into the.first team!

And reus was let go by.the.bvb academy before being.brought.back!


COME ON BRENDA your not.the.manager not some editor haha YNWA

{Ed001's Note - that's not how it works. If you think that every player that is good enough gets a chance, then you are dreaming. If you don't understand that a young player not getting chances to play has his develompment stunted, so never reaching the level he should do, then you don't understand.}

If you only knew how many academy players who don`t make it w/ their parent clubs, you would not be making the comment you just made, my friend.

I think you are discounting how important factors like luck play out. Sterling got a chance because our squad was so threadbare - if he didn't there is no way of knowing how he might have developed and whether a loan and/or time in the reserves would have impacted his development and If he would have “made it”. I'm a little surprised, to be honest, that the owners have allowed the academy and its players to be so under used - for a club with high ambitions but financial limitations it seems to me that youth development would be the best way to proceed. I certainly don't think that the “quality” of the players at the academy is in question rather that they (and the academies) management is at fault. As an example Spending 20mil on markovic, never playing him and loaning out Ibe - from both a footballing and business perspective it is just ludicrous.