Liverpool Banter Archive January 30 2017

 

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30 Jan 2017 22:37:40
Ed002 is quite correct with his comment about some believing FSG are only here to make money.

Where do those pig ignorant fans think the money for the massive new stand came from, did it fall from the sky? That is now a debt onto the club. Some maybe believe FSG can pass on the money for free? Ha ha, absolute brain dead mentality if that is the case.

FSG have loaned mega amounts of money to LFC, out of their own pockets. They have invested money into the club each season.

How much more money do some fans want FSG to loan to the club? and in return put the club into even more debt.

Anyone who believes Chinese owners will come in and change things overnight clearly do not understand how LFC's finances work. The massive transfer fees like £100m on players some fans crave will have to see any other owner loan money to the club if LFC's budget cannot afford it including the £300k a week that player will demand. It is not rocket science.

LFC can only spend what it earns, that is what some of the people with lack of club finances need to understand.

The club made plenty of funds available to Klopp this past summer and if need be, Klopp can go and add another player tomorrow in the current window and further punish our massive wage bill too when we do not have the fixture list to cope with a squad which is still huge in numbers. If Klopp feels the right player comes along then LFC will make money available. He does not have the room for transfer stuff ups unfortunately as if he goes wild in the market before tomorrow and end of the season outside the top 4 then it leaves our current squad in a massive mess. Many will once again have to leave in the summer to make space in a still bloated squad and that probably is the plan.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Believable8 Unbelievable12

31 Jan 2017 01:08:42
It is difficult to understand because those fans dishonestly slate the owners cos they are not spending 200m every season like their "idol" clubs like Utd and City or cos they are easy targets who can't defend themselves so people destroy them with baseless conspiracy theories like "they won`t give Jurgen or BR, money to spend", yet forgetting that they gave BR 300m plus in three seasons of which only a handful panned out, or the fact that Klopp himself dropped 60m and more on Mane, Wij and Matip (wages an sign-on fee and how they were ready to drop another 35m on Alex Texeira last Jan cos Klopp wanted him, badly.

All they do is kick up dust for no reason and forget all the good things and the huge wads of cash they have spent plugging the holes in our money pit.


31 Jan 2017 08:16:41
So you are saying fsg are doing it for the love of lfc and all the hundreds of millions they are pumping onto the club is purely on an altruistic basis. Please get real, they are an investment company that is trying to maximise its holdings for when they can make their profit when they execute their exit strategy. As for not backing managers, i agree there is no basis in that argument and they have been more than generous from that standpoint.


31 Jan 2017 00:40:25
And just to add a few more cents. FSG could have easily ordered the club to go loan money from a bank to fund the new stand and seen LFC debt become a problem on a much larger scale when it comes to the bank charging interest. FSG's loans have been interest free so it is absolutely brain dead beyond belief if anyone believes FSG are here to screw the club over and make money while they are at it. Once they sell the club, then they will look to at least make back the money they put in. If anyone on here bought into a company, football club or invested their money into something, if you are not going to expect a return on your investment then you might as well go donate your money to charity as you will be giving your money away for free.

One more thing, FSG's bank accounts and LFC bank accounts are two separate entities. LFC, the club, need to pay for wages, transfer fees, day to day running of the academy, Anfield etc etc etc.

FSG employ people to run the club and sign off the cheques. FSG's bank accounts are not linked to LFC's so those who think FSG are cash cows and have an open tap leading out of their bank accounts into LFC's bank accounts seriously need to take up when it comes to LFC's finances.

I have an idea for these idiots with their FSG are useless mentality, go buy a company or whatever it is and sell your house, your car, withdraw your kids educational funds, your pension funds and donate the money to the company you bought for free and while you are at it, move into the company premises as you will have absolutely nothing let and you will hope that the company you bought can pay you a salary.


30 Jan 2017 21:45:14
Hey Eds, how do you see the Sakho saga playing out by tomorrow. Will we agree to a loan, with an obligation to buy move. Also are there any negotiation going on at this point with any club for ins or outs. Have been a long time follower of the site, seems like club is holding their cards close to the chest, information is harder to come by.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I have explained the situation H.}

30 Jan 2017
New image uploaded to the
Liverpool Player Sightings page entitled, I can see why the owners think they should've bought the league. My maths isn't great but I think I see 5 teams that spent more this summer and 1 other that spent almost the same.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

30 Jan 2017 19:07:50
Ed033 - I would imagine the amount spent since they took over is the figure they are interested in


{Ed033's Note - i don't upload the images, only tell people that an image has been uploaded.

30 Jan 2017 21:48:04
So if expenditure relates to success we should be happy with 6th?


30 Jan 2017 22:29:48
Is that including the new stadium? I find it hard to believe we've been outspent. The owners have been pretty generous.


30 Jan 2017 18:55:33
Just a reminder to all of the real loyal fans of LFC out there.

At the end of last season and during the summer some of the ED'S and regular posters were to be honest speaking the truth when they said that our top priority this season is

1) keeping a fit squad of players within reason
2) Finish in the top 4
3) bringing the younger talent gently into the 1st team as the season progress's
4) Working on our weakness's and building on our strengths
5) keeping an eye on potential targets for the summer of 2018
6) Replacing Ian Ayre with a suitable candidate when he steps down
7) Have the new stand ready
8) Reduce our vast Debt as much as possible year on year

To all of the negative posters out there slating players and their performances. these guys have worked their ass's pff all season yes there has been highs and lows but for gods sake if you really want to be called a true lover of the club and what it used to stand for and can once again, stand up and be heard.

shout from your couch, the pub the stands, the streets wherever when there's a game on no matter how good or bad it is going.

Our goals were set and many this season have already been achieved.

Stop complaining and support the club you say you love and let the roar in the stadium make everyones hair stand on the back of the oppenent's neck and frighten the life out of them.

We have over acheicvied in may ways this season already ( Ignore the Cups ) the priorities are stated above.

Sorry guys just had to get that off my chest.

Believable6 Unbelievable5

{Ed002's Note - The top priority was to win the elague.}

30 Jan 2017 19:05:45
Problem is ed that was top priority for at least 5 other teams, 6 if you want to include Arsenal!


{Ed002's Note - So? That is the target - that has been the target since the owners have arrived. The problem is that for many years the team has not had a manager who has been able to make a fist of it and achieve or get close to fighting for the goal. And I know all about the transition that Liverpool has been in since 1986.}

30 Jan 2017 19:09:23
How much more money comes in from winning the league?


{Ed002's Note - It is a sliding scale but it opens the door to additional commercial revenue and sponsorship.}

30 Jan 2017 19:15:14
Was Rodgers not close in 2014 Ed? I'd say he was or at least 'fighting for the goal' as you put it.


{Ed002's Note - Sure, but he didn't win it and nobody remembers the people who come second - howver hard the fans choose to celebrate failure. And Rodgers is no longer available so won't be coming back to help out.}

30 Jan 2017 19:17:38
And we won the league in 1990 so the transition started then. Nothing to be proud of I know but just needed to correct you on your lack of knowledge when comes to all matters LFC.


{Ed002's Note - But not the Premier League of course.}

30 Jan 2017 19:17:42
I thought we nearly won the league a few years ago ed?


{Ed002's Note - Yep nearly.}

30 Jan 2017 19:53:35
Ed any owner who would what to win the league would go and spend and buy proven players when the come 2rd but no ares thought let's go and buy 5-6 players who could become good. And you replace Suarez with balotelli.

These owners are after one thing and that's making money of Liverpool football club


{Ed002's Note - Thank you for sharing your pig ignorance.}

30 Jan 2017 20:13:30
Pipe dream by the owners. Whilst i agree that the owners have made several cock ups in picking poor managers i firmly believe that while they have invested in players over their 7 seasons, it is no where near the level really required to muscle the likes of Chelsea or Man City out of the way to win that "Holy Grail". Should Liverpool have done better than finishing 6th or 8th in the League? Most certainly! That to me was a massive under achievement but saying that, winning the league would have been a massive over acheivement in my opinion. We would have needed a manager to work a minor miracle, clearly Kenny or Rodgers were not those managers and i personally think that any extra amount of money that they were given would have been wasted.


30 Jan 2017 20:39:51
I love the irony in slagging off the owners for not spending money while calling yourself "Matip is boss", a free signing.


30 Jan 2017 21:21:50
Oh so we are just talking premier league? In that case the transition started in 1992 then. Thanks ed keep going this transition gets shorter with each of your replies.


{Ed002's Note - You are making yourself look like a real jerk given Liverpool's failure to achieve in the league. The constant and feeble excuse of transition is embarrassing.}

30 Jan 2017 21:55:10
Rooneys hairline has been in transition since 1986.


30 Jan 2017 22:38:06
I Agree with ED002 with regards aiming for the title win but being realistic and I think it was yourself ED002 or ed001 that said top 4 was goal and anything else was a bonus, we have suprised many this season already but you never know there's a long way to go and some really big games to come and hopefully after that it could very well a three horse race up until the end and I do of course hope we are one of the three.


31 Jan 2017 01:16:09
You mentioned transition ed not me. You're making yourself look a complete jerk with the constant goading and mickey taking. I was just trying to fill in the obvious gaping holes in your football knowledge.


31 Jan 2017 02:30:30
True pips spot on mate in all your posts.


31 Jan 2017 05:44:49
What manager women the first prem title?
Was it a certain Mr Kenneth Dalglish.

Please don't mention Kenny and Rodgers in the same sentence.

Kenny managed more in his first full season than everyone since joined together.

Kenny should have come back home after Jack Walkers Blackburn.
Ps
And what a team that was.


31 Jan 2017 05:52:46
Sorry Ed about my last post.
Kenny won in 94 with Blackburn.
My mistake.

Would I be right in saying that Kenny is the only manager to win the English league top title with 2 different clubs?


{Ed002's Note - Herbert Chapman would be one - Clough another. There was also another Liverpool manager who did it more than 100 years ago but I don't recall his name - I am sure someone will help out here.}

31 Jan 2017 09:31:18
Dermot
No won is debating Kenny's status among Liverpool fans. He is the only one that they should look up to for all he has done for the club and surrounding area but bringing up winning a League in 94 has no relevance with managing a modern day club 20 years later.


01 Feb 2017 04:02:49
Irish rover surely you agree that Kenny team in his first full season had won more silverware than any since in their first full season in charge unless of course we win the prem this year.
That wasn't 2p years ago and I believe of fsg had the balls to stick with him we would have had more success instead of giving Rodgers 100s of millions to buy players who would show great character.


30 Jan 2017 17:55:32
It seems like a lot of our promising kids are picking up injuries pretty often over the last few seasons

Believable3 Unbelievable1

30 Jan 2017 15:58:39
Apologies if this has already been asked, but what has happened to Grujic? Is he injured? I would have expected to see him have a run out in the recent FA Cup games and surprised he didn't make an appearance. Cheers in advance

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - Grujic has had a niggling injury but is not really yet ready for the first team and a little background iussue has caused a slight difficulty.}

30 Jan 2017 15:27:30
Hi Eds

Bit of a general football question if I may. A local lower league club I used to work for has just started letting a late 30's ex player train with them again. This ex player is a cult name most people would recognise here but since his career ended (slightly prematurely) he's been on a personal downhill slide; substance abuse, wife moved out etc. It was very unexpected for those of us who knew him back in the day (which in fairness was a while ago now) when he was always the nicest, most normal, down to earth guy at the club.

I know those sorts of issues are a risk for retiring athletes who lived for their sport and suddenly are without any of the direction or rush that it brings. But are football clubs in general (and I'm sure there are extreme cases at both ends of the spectrum) making proactive steps to help players settle into retirement from the sport and transition away from that life? Or do they exist in a space where as soon as your contract is over unless you have another way to be useful, they don't want to hear your name again?

Cheers

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - Players are transient and you spend the last part of their career at a lower league club - it cannot be expected that such a club eases a player in to retirement. Players get a lot of support nowadays and the PFA provides help.}

30 Jan 2017 15:45:57
PFA have help there but you have to go looking for it, they do not go out of their way to promote or help this with ex players. in some cases it could be at a point where the demons are already in the system and you have to be at rock bottom before the system steps into help.


30 Jan 2017 20:42:25
Without sounding heartless but why should footballers get this help? Plenty of people have stressful jobs and get no help, nurses, soldiers, teachers etc.


31 Jan 2017 08:52:39
There needs to be more sympathy and awareness of mental health issues in all walks of life.


31 Jan 2017 12:01:46
Thanks Ed002. More of a curiosity than an expectation.

Mikey - all of those people have help so I don't know what you're on about. There are trade unions, charities, membership organisations and government funds that literally exist for the sole reason of helping those people. Don't make the mistake of thinking that every footballer is rich and can afford all the help they need - a very small percent actually end up 'rich' - most probably earn a better than average wage for most of their career, but when their career is 15-20 years max and finish it with little education to move onto something else, that 'better than average' wage needs to cover them for a very long time. I had a drink with a player for this club at their retirement party, he graduated from the spurs academy but spent almost his whole career in League 1 and the Championship. He told me he never earned more than £75k/ y and most of the time it was closer to £40k/ y. Sounds like good money but as he pointed out, he might never earn more than minimum wage in his life (being a more or less unknown footballer with a O-level in PE doesn't exactly quality you for many jobs) means he'll probably earn significantly less over his career than the average person on the street will.

99 - it's good to hear that the PFA does have a recognised function in that.


30 Jan 2017 14:09:17
Hi Eds,

long time massive fan but first ever post so be kind!
Do you think a viable option would be Couts and Lallana playing alongside Henderson. That way freeing up Couts wide left position for a pacey winger. Considering Firmino drops deep this would allow us to have runners in 2 pacey wide men as well as stretching defence to allow more space for Couts and Lallana to create. who would be your choice for a pacey wide man. Always loved Reus but too injury prone.

Believable9 Unbelievable1

{Ed001's Note - yes. I have always preferred Couts in that role. I would like Wilson to be given a chance as a left winger.}

30 Jan 2017 15:23:44
Agree, Coutinho was brilliant there in 12/ 13.

I think it's a strategy we can use particularly against sides playing a deep defence, having him at no.8 would give us creativity in midfield, a dangerous shot from distance, as well as giving the option for us to play a true winger on the left (Ojo or Wilson) .


30 Jan 2017 15:41:15
Thanks for response guys. I agree that some of the best football I've seen from Couts was when he played in midfield. he saw the runs of Suarez, Sterling and Sturridge so early and because we had people running in behind we created so much space for him to work his magic. Just seems right now the left side is empty as he always cuts inside onto his RF or deep to get the ball. Really think we need another Mane type player on the left. Couts and Lallana in the middle would be great to see. Then against the better teams drop one for another stronger midfielder to partner Hendo. Do you think Klopp will look for a left winger in summer (if so any names) or do you believe Wilson/ Ojo have what it takes to step up?


30 Jan 2017 15:55:32
Means dropping Can and wiji.
But coutinho is best in the middle and Lallana especially, hope to see it happen and work out.


30 Jan 2017 17:06:51
Given klopp clearly likes to play with wingers, why isn't he giving our own youngsters a chance? Surely they can't be much worse than pulisic, i mean he has talent but he isn't lionel messi, all young players have flaws and deficiencies so why not try wilson and ojo instead of spending the money?


30 Jan 2017 17:08:56
I just wonder if its defensively secure enough considering how easily we get ripped apart on the counter as it is. I've always liked the idea of playing Lallana and Cout in the middle as they are clearly most effective in these sort of areas but as much as i rate him highly, i'm not sure Hendo is up to the increased defensive burden of such an attacking midfield 3. He's certainly not poor defensively but i personally feel we might need more of a natural CDM to play that formation.


30 Jan 2017 19:01:29
HX

It wouldn't, courtesy of the league. But it would work if you dominate possession and against teams who sit back rather than play physical. Moreover you could rotate Lallana and courts going forward into the CL campaign.

Coutinho is the best passer in the team. He drops to the middle anyways. Let's actually play him there and play a winger on the left.


30 Jan 2017 20:44:57
We don't seem to get ripped apart from the counter with Lallana in the middle though, his pressing and gut busting runs back puts everyone else in the league to shame.
Not giving up on Can though I see a really good player in him just waiting to get out.


30 Jan 2017 21:25:16
Mikey have you been watching Liverpool at all this season, we don't get ripped apart on the counter? We've conceded the most goals out of the top 8 bar Man City, who by everyone's admission have been an absolute shambles defensively. Defence starts from midfield, and one of the reasons we have been an open book is because we play two attacking midfielders in a midfield 3 and a makeshift holding midfielder. Yes, lallana and wiji track back but they add very little defensive qualities and most of their defensive contributions are from pressure high up the pitch, once teams get past that hendo is the only one that offers any cover. This is the problem with our system, we have been great going forward (before Jan) but awful at the back. I would only admit that playing a midfield three of hendo couts and lallana would be fine due to the fact we played hendo wiji and lallana and got to where we were with it, and I would say the former is a better trio. But by no means is it ideal, it has to be addressed in the summer.


31 Jan 2017 03:39:26
The reason we get ripped apart on the counter is not because our midfield is not tackling, it's because we commit almost the entire side to attack (including both fullbacks) so when the opposition break forward quickly they often face just Hendo and the two CBs while everyone else is scrambling. Witness the breaks from Wolves, where most often it was 3 on 3
1) Randall started running back from well behind his man and failed to continue tracking him, while Moreno was having to lunge in from behind to stop a break clean through the midfield
2) On the other counter attack, luckily Woodburn continued to track and saved a goal with a last ditch sliding tackle

We got away with it first half of the season mostly because sides weren't sitting as deep, so a high press worked as a defensive system (Burnley being the exception) or else in many others we scored enough not to care. It also helped Mane was so good out wide it meant Clyne didn't have to bomb forward quite so much.

I personally think we would be fine defensively dropping Coutinho to midfield, however if we do, then it's critical we replace him with a true winger so the fullbacks aren't being asked to create the width, and can sit a little deeper to add a little defensive balance. Or even better, I'd also like to see a true DM brought in and Hendo pushed further forward into his old box to box role so we have more variety going forward. Hendo has always been effective arriving late in the box, and he's got the engine and discipline required to get back in defence.


31 Jan 2017 06:07:28
We need another player who can break from midfield with the ball driving at the opponents defence and have Firminio Lallana the playing off him

Another Manea type player.
We have been lacking penetration and without that type of player the ball tends to get passed sideways back and over the pitch hoping for the full backs to come up and provide a cross.
Which to do proper means getting nearly to the end line.

This leaves us exposed defensively if the attack breaks down and we end up conceding a goal or a free from the counter attack.


31 Jan 2017 04:46:55
wilson or ojo would be better ed001? im guessing your not naming ojo because he's injured?


{Ed001's Note - because he is just a kid coming back from a bad injury and needs time to get back to speed.}

30 Jan 2017 12:52:17
Hi Reds
I'm a long time reader but first time poster. I enjoy reading everyone's comments and opinions. Also reading all the eds have to say and the knowledge they have to pass on. I am, like everyone else, stressed watching our team go through this really bad run of games. I think things can only get better from here and hopefully chelsea will be the game that we turn things around and start playing the magic and entertaining ball that we were watching earlier in the season. I trust Klopp will put things right and get us back on track sooner rather than later. We're still in with a good chance of Champions league next season and I think we will be even stronger next season. I think we all need to get behind the players and manager, through the good times and bad. I think that we are lucky to have a great manager like klopp and I'd take him every time over any other manager in the premiership. Let's get behind him and the team, especially when things are not going well.

Believable13 Unbelievable1

30 Jan 2017 14:32:34
Exactly Tris79. we have a great manager who needs to understand the English game a little more, but support him and the team regardless, we have seen worse days so get behind them.
YNWA.


30 Jan 2017 14:32:34
Exactly Tris79. we have a great manager who needs to understand the English game a little more, but support him and the team regardless, we have seen worse days so get behind them.
YNWA.


31 Jan 2017 06:14:53
No winter break seems to be a factor in Our high intensity pressing game.

Though Klopp maintains that our dip is not fatigue as the stats show the team collectively is running further now each game than earlier on.

I think they probably are running further but at a lower tempo of pressing and that lower tempo doesn't force as many errors from the other teamside and so less chances.


30 Jan 2017 10:31:39
#1 do you not think hendo is being shackled in the holding role. His best asset during our 2nd place under rodgers was the energy he brought, him missing those 3 games is a big part of us not getting over the line that season in my opinion. has his injury affected how mobile he can be around the pitch?
Would he be better suited to the role Gini is playing and have lucas drop into the holding position. It would bring some much needed legs back in for us going forward and have the added advantage of lucas shelding the back 4.

Believable0 Unbelievable2

{Ed001's Note - I think he is growing into the role, what he needs is a partner in some games to allow him a little more freedom. We are too locked into the same formation in every match, when a simple switch to two holding players would change the whole thing around massively.}

30 Jan 2017 11:34:53
Ed someone who can break up the play the play will help him


{Ed001's Note - that is what I am saying, though only in some games is that needed. More in the games we dominate to allow Hendo to break late into the box, as no one else in midfield is doing that. That was supposed to be what Wijnaldum would do, but he is not contributing at all to our attacks right now. He doesn't seem to want to make late runs, in fact lately any runs, into the box.}

30 Jan 2017 12:21:10
Ive been saying hendo stewart (holding) lallana as the 3 would be miles more effective


30 Jan 2017 14:23:08
Ed do you think it might help to have a 4-2-3-1 with Sturridde/ origi lone striker and our current front 3 (Lallana, Couts, Mané ) behind with two holding in front of defence?


{Ed001's Note - erm what about Firmino?}

30 Jan 2017 16:04:52
It's clear we've needed a true holding midfielder; certainly in the games where we've lost due to counterattacks through the middle. I don't think Stewart is a solution now; maybe in the future. I know Klopp has a penchant for speedy, technical players but a burly, solid, nasty guy right smack in the middle of the park (like a Benetti, Simeone, Gattuso, Tardelli, Souness, Roy Keane or similar) would go a long way in making teams think twice about rushing down the center of the field as they have been doing. I would even take back the Lucas of old, when he was cutting off anything coming anywhere near our penalty box with a fierce tackle (or a foul) . He's lost a lot over the years due to injuries and age, and depending on him for a title run is not the most prudent strategy. Hendo is very capable but placing him in a purely defensive role, does in fact shackle him to a certain extent. I still remember his regular defense splitting passes to a Suarez or Sturridge in the past; something we don't see as much of nowadays. I'd prefer to see him in a CM role with a mix of both ofensive and defensive duties, and with a DM next to him or behind him depending on whether we are in possession of the ball or not.


30 Jan 2017 18:16:35
I don't think I would ever ageee with you RA. But that's post of the day for me. Someone like Moussa Dembele of Spurs. Him and Henderson would rule the PL. lol it's all coming the same point what Ed02 claimed. Klopp loves runners and CDM hardly runs.


30 Jan 2017 19:25:02
That time when you work out who Mathematics actually is.


31 Jan 2017 05:20:48
Harry, we've never agreed on anything and probably never will, except for this one subject of the DM (going by past posts) . It's almost tragic. But it is what it is. Klopp's system of using 2 converted AM's (Lallana and Wijnaldum) in midfield was working quite well for us earlier in the season. But when you see strikers from low-table championship team streaking down the middle and slicing our defense like a hot knife in butter, you have to stop saying "oh, it happens in football" and have defensive options available.

And may I suggest "Rogue" or "Instigator" as your next name change? :-)


30 Jan 2017 10:45:15
Frustrating result for the U23s on Sunday as they drew 0-0 with Sunderland, a side they were expected to beat.
The team was a lot more inexperienced than previous games although Ojo played the full 90 minutes and was a threat throughout. Harry Wilson was not involved in the game. We had enough chances to win the game but every team has one of these days and you can't win them all.
Next up is Bolton at home on Wednesday in what's called the Senior Cup (I don't know either) . Get out there and support them fellow reds!

Believable4 Unbelievable0

30 Jan 2017 10:21:33
Nice bauble for Lallana - just reflects his value to us now and how much we miss him when he's out of the side.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

30 Jan 2017 07:31:02
In reply to Ron 06:28 post
Spot on once again Ron. It has been glaringly obvious how much we have missed the runs of Mane in behind the defence off the ball. Pace is a nightmare to mark. Crab football is a doddle, it allows teams to play exactly as they set up in training to defend. I am not for one minute suggesting we are a 1 man team with the loss of Mane but he brings to the team the unexpected. We need another to play on the opposite wing. Awful we have gone out of 2 cups within days but we must move on. Klopp is the right man to bring success 100%. The boys will be fired up for tomoz 2-1 Firmino and Coutinho. Come on boys!

Believable3 Unbelievable0

 
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