Liverpool Banter Archive October 02 2017

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02 Oct 2017 21:51:52
Anyone else getting a bit tired of reading Ed002 constantly slagging off Klopp?

I agree that the man has his faults and doesn't always act the way he should, with the "tapping up" of players and his eccentric interviews and silly goal celebrations.

Don't get me wrong Ed002, The people that use this site do so to read your knowledge and insight on all things football. Your always very well informed and this site wouldn't be the same without your input.

You've clearly made your opinion clear about Klopp lately but as a Liverpool fan, the whole clueless, idiot, disgrace and clown descriptions of the man are getting a bit old and boring.

Coming in peace from one of the "not so bright liverpool fans of this world"

Tris79.

Believable22 Unbelievable4

{Ed002's Note - You donâ€™t even know the half of it. There are numerous fans who see Klopp as the saviour - he isnâ€™t. They say he is the best manager in the world or is world class - he isnâ€™t. It is tiresome to read mindless drool from people like you who want to make it all about me - the standard it is deflecting or someone else,s fault. Embarrassing.}

03 Oct 2017 00:06:00
He doesn't know his saviour or his saver,

I'm not defending him cos he don't know about that either,

Joke.

03 Oct 2017 07:47:24
I think we'd have more of a problem if he didn't post at all, everybody has their opinion and he obviously knows more then we do, i don't agree with the constant Klopp bashing but he does know what he's talking about.

03 Oct 2017 08:18:21
You don't have to visit the site you know.

{Ed001's Note - shhhhh don't tell him that!}

03 Oct 2017 07:33:54
After reading the first line I just started laughing imagining the response to follow from 02. Granted, I was on to my 3rd wine, but I was disappointed with the limpness of your retort Ed.
I must say, I used to have a bit of a man crush on Klopp. I loved his passion and honesty. got to say though, his sideline antics at Newcastle were a bit embarrassing. Ok, you're not pleased with what you're seeing, but baring your teeth like a mad man and waving your arms in the air is not getting your message across.
Please, not Klopp bashing or calling for his head, just expressing a feeling. I'd be happy to stick with the man for quite some time and hope that the glimpses of brilliance we see become the norm and not the rarity.

03 Oct 2017 08:33:30
3 down and yet such a well written post Burkey ðŸ˜„ðŸ˜„. You seems like a tank ðŸ˜ŽðŸ˜Ž.

03 Oct 2017 09:00:48
Brilliant Ed 001, just top class response.

03 Oct 2017 10:43:47
Gee harry, a compliment!

03 Oct 2017 13:53:45
I find klopps passion refreshing in a world of managers with fifteen teams on their c. v. s. we know how chuffed he gets when we score and win so why are you surprised he gets angry when we lose, oh no, hang on, it was an away draw.

I don't think we did enough in the transfer market. The two teams at the top spent well and their league position shows it. Luckily we weren't the only top team to not do too well in the transfer market. Spurs arsenal and Chelsea also failed to improve much.

I know we haven't seen much of AOC and I was happy when we signed him but I have to say, I can really hear people singing "what a waste of money" in six months time. I think AOC would look good coming into a side that are winning bit a side that aren't, I don't see him having that big an impact. I hope I'm wrong and I hope he starts soon, in a decent side and proves me wrong.

03 Oct 2017 20:32:45
Yet one or two bad mouth a player and we're all suddenly the worst fans in the world with zero loyalty! Personally I can overlook the Klopp comments because I enjoy the opinion of someone obviously knowledgeable with no need to pander to a fan base. It's the constant abuse of that fan base and then the "embarrassing and deflecting" comments when we respond that grates a bit. Leaves a sour taste for someone who's opinion and knowledge I really respect. C'est la vie we're all big boys!

03 Oct 2017 21:03:40
Isn't tris Edd1 Iam sure a long time ago he said his name was.

{Ed025's Note - not the same one walter, i can assure you mate..

02 Oct 2017 21:33:05
Big respect to the Liverpool legends for raising money for the Nordoff Robbins charity, should be more events like this for charities.

Believable6 Unbelievable1

02 Oct 2017 22:43:22
I'd go for Kante, like having 2 players.
Casemiro, does the dirty work for RM and makes them tick.
Bender, good in the tackle and reading of the game.

03 Oct 2017 09:32:13
Wrong thread, Mush.

02 Oct 2017 20:09:45
Evening Gents,
I know he hasn't had much game time, but what's your early assessment of AOC?

Wenger had a problem with him because he couldn't give him his preferred role.
Is Klopp having the same problem?

Like I said, early days, but AOC is a very experienced Prem player.

Will he get his chance?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - He would still be at Arsenal if he wasn't home grown.}

02 Oct 2017 20:34:51
What is his preferred role?
He's like Can for me, a decent player with no position.

02 Oct 2017 21:00:10
He's more Can't than Can.

02 Oct 2017 21:42:19
At Arsenal, I thought he was all style and no substance, lots of pace, strength, dribbling ability, but no end product.

As for his Liverpool career he hasn't played enough for me to make any sort of assessment.

02 Oct 2017 21:51:23
Arsenal did the right thing by offloading him now they have one less player to bother! Next up Wheelchair and Walcott! All medicore English players!
Klopp is preparing a master plan to unleash AOC! Coming soon at a stadium near you!

02 Oct 2017 22:11:57
Klopp obviously sees something in him, something I don't.

02 Oct 2017 23:19:48
I think people are been a little too harsh on the lad, give him time, he may surprise us all, we need to get behind him not slate him - he's a Liverpool player now, let's see how he gets on.

02 Oct 2017 23:46:39
Mikey, Klopp also seems something in Klavan and Lovren what no one else does. He is got it wrong about AOC as well. Waste of money and time imo. We got mugged by Arsenal.

02 Oct 2017 23:51:45
Klopp sees a lot of things others don't tbf.

03 Oct 2017 00:46:02
He needs time to adapt in our system and bad results, pressure from fans and media isn't helping either.

03 Oct 2017 08:22:03
There is nothing about him. Klopp made a panic buy for a position that hardly required any investment in. Its a panic buy and he won't feature this season as long as performances don't improve.
next two games are tough and maribor we have to win. so in coming month i don't see AOC getting any game time.
Another thing that will eventually lead to klopps sacking.

03 Oct 2017 08:23:51
I've got a mate who's a mad gunner. He's so happy he's at Liverpool and we actually paid 40 million pounds of money.

03 Oct 2017 08:36:09
He will end up at Palace / Stoke / West ham like most of our unwanted end up at! If he wanted to play regularly he should have taken couple of steps down and joined any of the club that give him guarantee! Klopp likes hard core runners hence we signed him!

03 Oct 2017 08:36:13
He seems like a long term replacement for Milner - a squad player who can do everything to a half decent standard but not really good enough to claim a starting berth anywhere. Give him time though and he may come good - many arsenal fans have said that he suffered from under coaching at Arsenal so let's see what some decent coaching can do.

03 Oct 2017 09:35:07
I did not want AOC here and that much was well documented. However, he is an LFC player now and needs my and our support. He has not played a lot and cameos are the dumbest ways to judge a player. I will not be drawn into that. I will give him time to prove his worth cos if he succeeds, that means LFC succeeds.

03 Oct 2017 10:08:04
If he had scored that header we'd be saying it was a well timed run from a midfielder,
I think he's going to be a good signing but whether we need both him and Milner is another thing.

03 Oct 2017 12:10:35
Can we show a little support to the lad and give him time to get to adapt to klopps accepted level of fitness and tactics before we turn him into the next aquilani.

03 Oct 2017 12:54:53
AOE, support for our own? Are you kidding me? Surely, you are aware of the hammering that Klopp is getting from many on here cos he lost 2 games out of 15 in all comps this season, right? Supporting our own players come hell or high water, is becoming gradually extinct. Hopefully, we can bring it back.

02 Oct 2017 19:38:19
I predicted 1-1, I also predicted Rafa would play Shelvey to try and pick passes through our suspect defence.
Maybe I should be a manager, it can't be that hard can it?

Now for what is hopefully an uplifting distraction, the loan report.

Taiwo Awoniyi played for 80 minutes and scored the second goal of the game as REM threw away a 2 goal lead to draw 2-2.

Ryan Kent was an unused sub as Freiburg beat Hoffenheim 3-2.

Jordan Williams was an unused sub as Rochdale drew 0-0 with Wimbledon.

Toni Gomes missed out through injury as Forest Green lost 1-0 to Accrington Stanley.

Allan was an unused sub as Apollon won 5-0.

Origi played for 85 minutes as Wolfsburg drew 1-1 with Mainz.

Chirivella played for 90 minutes as Willem II lost 4-0 to PSV.

Brooks Lennon played for 20 minutes as Real Salt lake drew 1-1 with LA Galaxy.

Shamal George was an unused sub as Carlisle beat Crawley 1-0.

Connor Randal played the full 90 as Hearts lost 2-1 to Dundee.

Ojo came off with a slight injury in the 55th minute as Fulham beat QPR 2-1.

Keita missed out through suspension as RBL beat Koln 2-1.

Not the most exciting update, they either didn't play, lost or got injured.

Could be worse, they could play for Everton ;)

Believable12 Unbelievable1

02 Oct 2017 20:12:33
Dislocated shoulder is a slight injury? Maybe you could be a manager (predicting he opposition will play their captain and he will make passes; why didnâ€™t klopp see that one coming? ) but definitely not a doctor or physio.

02 Oct 2017 20:22:06
Nice work carra ðŸ˜.

02 Oct 2017 23:21:09
Thanks Carra :)

Anybody know how Origi is getting on?

02 Oct 2017 23:34:12
Thanks mate. Always look forward to your updates. Keep up the good work.

03 Oct 2017 08:18:39
Sorry Jezza the app I use said slight injury. If he played rugby he could pop it back in and carry on.
And as for Shelvey he has not started a game since the opening day so personally I think it was a good call.
But I don't post the updates for trolls like you anyway as all you seem to do is criticise other posters regardless of what they say.

03 Oct 2017 08:37:31
Well said Carra and welcome back.

03 Oct 2017 20:33:57
Cheers Carra!

02 Oct 2017 19:27:53
The Intergalactic team move on. The defensive midfield is next - three required. I will offer up Vidal, Casmiro and Pedro Aquino - a bit of a wildcard.

Believable5 Unbelievable2

02 Oct 2017 20:20:33
Radja Naingolan, Arturo Vidal and N'golo Kante for me then. Not really sure the first 2 are classified as defensive midfielders anymore, but they both have played full seasons as cdm earlier in their carrier soo.

02 Oct 2017 20:25:44
Kante, Vidal and Casemiro.

02 Oct 2017 20:25:55
Oh Ed, you don't need defensive midfielders, Liverpool have shown us all that!

02 Oct 2017 20:31:04
You don't happen to be talking about Pedro Aquino who formerly played for Sporting Cristal? When I was travelling around South America I attended a few football games, one of them happened to be a Sporting Cristal game and he was technically head and shoulders about everyone on the pitch and he was only 20 years old! Very composed and was sublime with both feet!

As for the defensive mids;

Casemiro
Matic
Vidal.

02 Oct 2017 20:34:01
Matic, Kante, Dembele (Spurs)

Was tempted to put Henderson, Wijnaldum and Lallana ðŸ˜.

{Ed025's Note - if you did ron i would have gone with...curly larry and mo..

02 Oct 2017 20:46:44
Vidal, Kante and Casemiro for me

Cheers.

02 Oct 2017 21:11:45
Javi Martinez of Bayern is a good shout. Usually forgotten as he now plays centre half.

02 Oct 2017 21:32:09
Makelele (sure he could still do a job), Kante, Lucas Lieva (because he's a good boy! )

Are there many old school Makelele type DMs around? Who just sit deep, win a lot of tackles/ interceptions, and play an easy pass?

02 Oct 2017 21:35:30
Kante - undoubtedly one of the best CDMs currently
Matic - He's so good that with his sale, Chelsea might have handed United the title
Casemiro - in form midfielder, does the job real well.

02 Oct 2017 21:40:51
I can't look past N'Golo Kante. Sorry to be obvious, but he'd improve every team in the world bar Chelsea. And that's only because they already have him. As well as his tenacity, energy and tackling ability, he uses the ball intelligently and efficiently which a lot DMs don't.

Next would be Casimeiro and Vidal. I know Vidal isn't really a DM anymore, but he's too good to leave at home.

02 Oct 2017 22:23:52
Toni Kroos and Arturo Vidal are certainties for me.

I would also go with Andres Iniesta and Kevin De Bruyne but they're more CM than CDM.

If pushed for a third CDM, I'd reluctantly say Nemanja Matic.

02 Oct 2017 22:40:30
Kante, Just like makelele in the late 90s/ early 00s, this lad epitomises the term CDM. In my opinion he is head and shoulders above any other defensive midfielder in the game today. Athleticism would be the area where he just excels in comparison to my other cdm's.

Busquets, unsung hero for BarÃ§a. Has won a lot and might be overlooked because he's not been the most noticible player in any Of The BarÃ§a teams of last ten Years. But he's done a vital job in the middle Of The park nonetheless, breaking up play and releasing the attack with neat and effective passing. Just world class.

For the last I'll pick wanyama. Just watched him a lot over the years and admire him greatly. No nonsense, powerhouse of a CDM.

02 Oct 2017 23:33:54
KantÃ¨, Casemiro, Vidal.

Lucas Tousart, Amadou Diawara, Wilfred Ndidi would be my wildcards.

KantÃ¨ is incredible to watch. Casemiro is one of the few players I predicted to turn out great who actually did. Vidal I think would work well alongside either of these. As for the younger three, I hope they keep improving. Would love one of those at Liverpool.

02 Oct 2017 23:37:51
My three picks would have to be Matic, Dier and N'Zonzi. Matic is one of the best DMs on his day, and frankly, I do not know why he didn't really perform too well for Chelsea in his final seasons. If it was a motivation problem, a one-off match against intergalactic opponents should fire him up and bring the best out of him. My second choice is Dier. This is probably one of the rather more controversial choices, but he is an underrated cog in the Spurs machine, and his ability to also provide cover for the CBs or allow a change to a back three during the match is invaluable. My final pick is N'Zonzi. Definitely the best DM in La Liga last season, he is a monster of a player. Strong, good in the air and technically decent, even if he looks a bit clumsy.

To be honest, it was difficult choosing three DMs because of the dearth of good players in that position. Kante is not a DM so I do not know why people are choosing him. Neither is Vidal. They are both fantastic players that should be considered for the CM position rather than for the DM position. I also saw that someone picked Kroos but he too plays further upfield for both Real Madrid and Germany.

Furthermore, the other options were unsavoury. Casemiro is average and only plays for Real because they don't or didn't have options there. He is rash and the protection he provides for his defence is minimal. Busquets is a decent passer of the ball, but he lacks mobility and strength. Moreover, he playacts all the time and I would really rather not choose someone who conducts himself like that on the field. Javi Martinez used to be a good DM but injuries have decimated him, and his already lack of pace has been exacerbated over the years due to that. Wanyama is poor on the ball and poor in the tackle, and only really provides a bit of strength in the middle and even that is questionable.

The only two other options I can think of is Weigl and Krychowiak. They are both good players, but I did not pick Weigl because the three options I chose have a better range of abilities and would provide better protection. I would have chosen Krychowiak before he left for PSG as he was the best DM in La Liga at that time. He can also provide cover at CB so he would have replaced Dier. However, his season at PSG did not work out, and choosing him would be riskier than picking Dier who has similar attributes as him.

02 Oct 2017 23:45:13
Kante
Matic
Fernandinho.

03 Oct 2017 00:29:59
Tough one, ed02 - this is one of the most curious positions in world football, because the requirements for it have been changing for quite a while, and it is getting harder and harder to distinguish between a DM and a CM.
"Speacialist" defensive midfielders are sought for less and less.

Personally, I would go for:

Toni Kroos - still don't understand why Bayern let him go. I think he can qualify for the position, even though he plays a bit forward for Real.
Saul Niguqes - love that one. Haven't seen him for a while, but I know he can cover a variety of positions in midfield.
Kante - this year he seems to play further forward, but I still consider him a primarily defensive player.

Honorable mention to Casemiro, and also to Henderson - he offers a unique skillset for the position in which he plays, it is a shame that his form has dipped after his injury, the previous autumn he was very good at cutting off the opposition in non-obvious ways. His intelligent play and great engine was the reason that we actually had a strong patch of form, by allowing fewer attacks against out defense.

03 Oct 2017 01:08:33
Kante, Marco Verratti and Vidal!

03 Oct 2017 01:15:02
Kante, verratti and Vidal for me!

03 Oct 2017 01:28:47
Modric, Kante and Kroos.

03 Oct 2017 06:24:57
Kante, Dembele and Modric for me.

03 Oct 2017 07:01:56
Is there room for Glenn Whelan?

03 Oct 2017 08:11:38
Just stick Kante in on his own. No need for anyone else.

03 Oct 2017 09:12:13
Casemiro
Kante
Bender.

03 Oct 2017 09:15:36
Fernandinho, Matic and Casemiro. Kante is no longer used as a DM at Chelsea as he is now licensed to get forward more often as seen vs Arsenal and City of late.

03 Oct 2017 09:22:02
Most of the names mentioned ainâ€™t any DM or purest form of DM. And since we have only a CM to partner the position I would rather go with Holding mid.
1. Kroos - Coz he is excellent on the ball first class passing and superb vision
2. Jorginho - Napoli, He plays for team that plays high line and he has been ridiculously good in what he does!
3. Xabi Alonso - He still has another 2 years left and he is the best I have seen all life!

03 Oct 2017 10:05:52
Kante, Vidal, Kroos. I know they aren't the most defensive minded of holding mids but they aren't going to get into the attacking mid slot, they're all too good not to get into this team. Honourable mentions were casemiro, dembele, matic, veratti.

03 Oct 2017 13:29:35
Keita
Kante
Lucas lieva.

I really think lucas is one of the most underrated players to ever grace the premier league. About four/ five years ago he really stepped up and became, in my opinion, the best dcm in England. I think it was after mascherano left and it looked like lucas had really learned fron xavier. If anyone doubts that, then take a look at Liverpool win conversion with and without lucas in the team.

If the intergalactic squad played in the "time portal cup" and went back in time ten years then mascherano would be my first choice no doubt.

03 Oct 2017 13:57:44
Kante cannot be overlooked for this position a serial winner and proven performer.
Casemiro is next, a real unit and big influence on madrids success last year. Offers something different to Kante also.
Lastly id have Daniele De Rossi, a real warrior and someone who has played this position for so long. Would offer a proven link with the Italian cbs we have chosen.

03 Oct 2017 14:17:05
Kante - Casemiro - Busquets.

03 Oct 2017 17:15:52
For me there are 2 tyoes of cdm
A) a deep lying playmaker such as veratti
And
B) a destructive player who sits behind everybody and is snuffing out attacks and supports from behind when in possesion
Matic and cassimero

Kante keita atr both box to box
So i would choose matic veratti and casimero.

03 Oct 2017 18:27:02
I'd go for me, Baine, and The Bat Tumbler. Jokes aside, Casemiro, Nzonzi, Matic.

03 Oct 2017 18:29:46
Kante, Vidal and medel.

03 Oct 2017 21:13:59
Kante - because Kante and he will literally cover every blade of grass by also never being out of position. Mans a machine.
Gary Medel- because he's a little pitbull who can play a bit too. Shocked no other PL team went for him after Cardiff went down.
Dembele- Probably not a typical DM but such a strong and clever player he'd do a job there. Fantastic on the ball too.

Special shout out to Wanyama and of course Joe Ledley.

03 Oct 2017 21:19:53
Hendo, Keita and a long way behind those 2 Veratti.

{Ed025's Note - i think you may have left a sentence out there ings..."im here all week"..

03 Oct 2017 22:30:57
My picks are: Kante, Casemiro, and Fernandinho.

04 Oct 2017 08:29:05
Kante, matic, casmero.

04 Oct 2017 09:42:55
I just couldn't stand all of this talk of Kante, Casemiro et al when we have the number one DM in the world as our captain ðŸ˜Ž.

04 Oct 2017 09:46:05
Casemiro - brought balance to Madrid's team. Won them 2 Champions league (with CR7 and Modric) and is one hell of a big game player.

Kante- Probably the best centre midfielder in the premiership for the past 2 seasons.

Tielemans - I would've gone with Matic, who has removed the shackles from Man. Utd's attackers, but I remember the 1st time I saw Tielemans. Anderlecht vs Arsenal. He was so calm, composed and confident. Picked the right passes most times. Even my brother, an Arsenal fan, was awed. I'll go with him cos of his age.

05 Oct 2017 04:20:48
Since we are talking defensive midfielders and not CM, I would go Busquets (yes he can be a dog but he is effective), Matic and probably Casemiro (anyone who has to cover for RM's bludging frontline has to be a workhorse) .

05 Oct 2017 09:25:01
tomsbakery - that is exactly who I was talking about.

So we have our three of Casemiro, Vidal and Kante. Coming in a few minutes, right midfield.

02 Oct 2017 19:19:57
Was Alex Ferguson wrong to be worried for Man United when Klopp took over at LFC? I think our manager may have realised by now that the EPL is different from the German league. It's more physical and intense. Guardiola, who managed in Germany, seems to have learnt and adapted quickly. I know people will say he has more money at his disposal to buy players. But maybe he's also cleverer and more flexible as opposed to our Klopp, who seems to be stubborn and less flexible. Only time will tell but I don't think Klopp has too much time.

Believable5 Unbelievable8

02 Oct 2017 19:51:43
Why does Klopp not have too much time? Are we bottom of the League, out of the CL?

Funny how Guardiola was not more clever than Klopp last season?

Ask yourself this, would Guardiola have worked wonders if he took over LFC when Klopp did?

Compare the City squad Guardiola took over to that of the one Klopp had to deal with.

And whether Klopp said he can win the League or whatever he did to FSG, many managers have said daft things. Can you imagine Rodgers rambling off with his 180 page dossier in his hands when FSG interviewed him. I would loved to have been on a fly on the wall that day!

02 Oct 2017 20:08:49
Max, so how long must the fans here wait for trophy?

02 Oct 2017 20:10:19
He would not have worked wonders but he would have addressed our obvious problems. And don't tell me he tried to sign Van Dijk. Given the bad defenders we have, there were other alternatives.

02 Oct 2017 20:14:07
Sir Alex also wanted David Moyes to manage United. And had an eye on Owen Coyle at one point. So I wouldn't worry too much about that.

{Ed025's Note - well said sydney..

02 Oct 2017 20:23:27
For me it's more about what Klopp has signed for us to fix our problems. Karius (hardly plays), Matip (plays but not good enough), Roberston (can't get into the team), Klavan (not good enough can't get into the team), Caulker (no words to describe that signing) and to top it all off we signed Ox for 40 mill in the summer and it's clear to everyone he's not good enough to get into the starting 11 and it appears Klopp also feels the same way. I really like Klopp but some of his decisions in the transfer market and then team selection is dumbfounding. This is not a call for Klopps head but the realisation that Klopp has brought a lot of these problems onto himself.

02 Oct 2017 20:20:11
Pep spent over Â£200m this season on defence alone after spending another Â£100m on defence in the last 3 years and spends millions each week on the wages for those players klopp spent in transfer fees 0 Matip, 5 klavan, 8 robbo and 6 Karius plus a couple on the caulker loan. BR spent 15 clyne, 12 moreno, 20 lovren. Obviously BR spent loads more on players gone like Sakho and ilori but klopp canâ€™t use them because he sold them. City have spent more on their 2 GKs than we have on our whole defence.

{Ed002's Note - We get it. Many Liverpool fans are only interested in money and marquee signings - it doesn't matter who as long as he is really expensive. Klopp doesn't really know what he is doing with the defence - I appreciate many of the Liverpool fans see him as the greatest manager in the world in which case it must be a surprise to see him constantly making errors in the transfer market, acting so unprofessionally, the lies, the attempts to cheat the disruption to players registered to other clubs? The cheerful clown has been replaced by the angry clown now. The club need to get someone in to help him - a good quality coach who can instill discipline in the defence and get them working together. Else this will drag on. The angry clown wants complete control and somehow either can't see, or even worse, can't address the problem.}

02 Oct 2017 20:25:27
Klopp gets us into the Champions League for only the second time in eight years and we're talking about him not having much time 7 league games later?

I'm not going to sit here and pretend Klopp is perfect (cos he isn't) and hasn't made mistakes (cos he has), but it's nowhere near time to be talking about sacking him or him 'not having too much time'.

Let's take this to it's logical conclusion. We sack Klopp. Write off the rest of the season as 'transition', cos we haven't had enough of 'transition' seasons in the last decade. Then hope to build next season and get into the CL again so we can have a platform to challenge for the league and compete regularly in Europe blah blah. What happens if we don't make the CL though? What happens if newguy finishes 5th in his first full season instead of 4th? Do we sack him and start all over again? Is it a case that we sack a manager every 2 years unless he wins the league in that time?

This isn't like Rodgers who had slightly more than a season of tactical bumbling and confusion, at least three or four changes in formation, players frequently changing roles (Hendo at right wingback one game, attack midfield the next), no attacking outlet and dire, slow, possession for possession's sake football even when we were winning. This is a poor start to the season, it's well premature to be talking about changing the manager.

{Ed025's Note - i totally agree SR, and very well said sir..

02 Oct 2017 20:31:31
It is not like Guardiola has addressed the CB situation at City? Apart from Kompany, the rest of their CB's are woeful.

Klopp had far more to do about trying to fix the Liverpool squad compared to Guardiola. Guardiola this past summer also did not have to worry about making space in their squad as they had a whole host of 1st team players on mega wages who's contracts had run out.

Believe you me, Guardiola would have been laughing at FSG if they had approached him about taking over at LFC when Rodgers was given the boot. Guardiola would not have touched the Liverpool squad with a barge pole, that and the fact that we have been struggling for over two decades.

Be happy we actually managed to get a manager who had one silverware.

02 Oct 2017 20:42:42
Sorry, won silverware :-)

02 Oct 2017 20:44:56
Here's my honest answer:
Klopp had a great system at Dortmund. The problem with modern day football is every club has access to every match in high definition and every club has an army of analysts assessing team's strengths and weaknesses.
Systems get "worked out". Managers get worked out. A world class manager has to continuously improve his team and address their weaknesses, they also have to be versatile and adapt to new challenges.
I think Klopp is a good manager, but he hasn't addressed our weaknesses in the summer and that has led to the team standing still whilst others get better. Whether it be training drills or new signings our defence has not improved in the last 12 months and that means other teams are accelerating away from us.
If VVD was a no-goer he should have had a contingency plan. Whether that was a tactical tweak with a DM or a new centre back there should have been some way of making the team less vulnerable. AOC is a signing I simply cannot fathom. He does nothing to address any area of weakness yet he is our record signing.

02 Oct 2017 20:47:40
Unfortunately this game we know and love is all about money, it has need since the birth of the Premier league 92/ 93.

02 Oct 2017 21:07:11
Have to agree with Ed002, watched the Klopp interviews yesterday and he was very stressed. It was only a matter of time before the clown act perished. He is clearly rattled and the press are jumping all over it. It's easy picking for the reporters at the moment. No harm in asking for help. Sir Alex had plenty of help. Carlos Queiros, Mike Phelan etc. I think a different approach is needed now. Things are not great at the moment guys. I wouldn't swap manager, but maybe some help would give the players a lift.

02 Oct 2017 21:55:34
Ron
Klopp also had great players at Dortmund and his system started to crumble when he sold those players to Bayern and failed to replace them! Great players are needed to succeed a good system edpecially the one we are playing!

02 Oct 2017 21:56:54
RELAX

Another 26 years ðŸ˜„ðŸ˜„. Relax.

{Ed025's Note - thats not nice about your own team harry..

02 Oct 2017 22:12:39
He wanted to hear the truth ðŸ˜„ðŸ˜„ðŸ˜„. This year is good as gone! Next year I expect Chelsea to step up or City if they loose to UTD. This cycle will continue! Itâ€™s been 10 years Arsenal has a sniff at the title. What has Top 4 given them other than the Emirates Stadium?

02 Oct 2017 23:39:11
Man city had a far better squad when Pep took charge. Klopp inherited a weak squad with no depth and a poor defence.

Disappointed that he seems unable to address this but Pep really did have far more quality and depth within the squad. So it's an unfair comparison.

02 Oct 2017 23:39:56
Ffs give it a rest Harry, all is not rosy in the garden at the moment, but the squads improving and will continue to do so, many more chances created than given up, what do you want a new manager and 4/ 5 new players.
It's not that easy.

Bin Mings, use either of the backups, Gomez centre, TAA rb, rotate the midfield if needed (yes it's needed after Sundays shambles) there's enough quality in the squad.

03 Oct 2017 07:24:31
Something Red, great post mate!

02 Oct 2017 22:45:05
Wonder would Steve Clarke have any interest in being a coach again, or is he only interested in being a manager.

{Ed002's Note - Klopp doesn't want help.}

03 Oct 2017 08:35:29
Ok i think people protect Klopp with everything they got on here. Why can't you just admit he is mediocre manager at best, who has no idea what his best first team or best formation is? he is not concerned with defense at all and he just wants to play football ( or what he calls it) and won't change and so won't LFC;s luck.
good teams area about good recruitment and he has already had two summer windows to address faults but he hasn't been able to.
Now that attack is flopping in front of goal his creds are being questioned and people are just putting any thing they can to defend the man.
he is an average coach/ manager he hasn't showed anything but at LFC in 2 years. Add to it the hoopla of tapping up and other behind door mishaps, you'd say he isn't even smart.
So much changing and chopping and rotating tells you he has no idea who is his best bet in the team and 10 games all over the season that is not a good sign.
he has definitely wasted funds and that further hurts his reputation.

03 Oct 2017 09:50:55
Spot on, Something Red. Great post. Klopp's detractors sound petulant children who cos he did not win the PL in his first season and is struggling at the start of this one (two losses in all comps this season. Oh the horror! ), they are complaining as if BR won the PL in his 3 plus yrs here or Rafa won the PL in his 6 years here. Abject nonsense. Pepand Mou spent a full fortune last season and Pep finished 3 points ahead of us and Utd finished 5 points behind us. Did you hear the fans calling for their heads?
Go ahead and sack Klopp and let me know who will take over and when he starts struggling again after 2 years cos he will, sack him too and then after a century of doing that nonsense, let me know if LFC have won the PL yet with that pathetic knee jerk policy.

Akshit, no one is protecting Klopp from anything simply cos we disagree with the knee jerk moaners out there who refuse to see the big picture. The man is clearly struggling and some things he is doing are not working, that much is clear. He made mistakes. Who has not? Rafa made tonnes of them too as that is what being human being means.

He is frustrated. New Flash: Who is not? There are things he can do right now like focus on a set 11 and go with them for a few games to foster more cohesion, bench the likes of Wiji, Migs and Studge cos they are not doing it currently, our strikers and mids gel together to create clearer chances and improve the conversion rate and so on. These are ideas that can be explored and the hope is he is successful in what he does do as that means we are successful as a club EXCEPT of course, you don't care about any of that and are just interested in moaning and being right.

03 Oct 2017 10:25:17
What is this â€œ Bigger picture. â€
Our Picture depends on incomes and revenues which means you have to be inside Top4 at a minimum for any kind of argument. Trophy is a long way from today I canâ€™t see us finishinng ahead of two Manchester clubs as twonlondon clubs!
This clubs doesnâ€™t run on Kerosine or Bensin! Itâ€™s runs on money, money comes from Success something Klopp is not even close to 10 kmâ€™s!
Success is measure by achievements everywhere in the world except liveroool ofcourse!

03 Oct 2017 10:41:01
I actually think Harry is a subtle version of Sydney. A very patient manc doing a long term wind up of Liverpool fans.

03 Oct 2017 12:45:50
I think we have been looking at the bigger picture for far too long and if klopp doesn't deliver this season i think we should look for real alternatives that will get us there.
and this is no knee jerk reaction i have maintained from day 1 i will only rate Klopp once he wins us some silverware.
we bottled against Sevilla any good manager would have won that game with the start we had and that's the problem under klopp we bottle up at crucial moments. I don't want to see a manager getting frustrated over nothing. He hasn't tried anything new and he is frustrated over repeat mistakes.
I made my mind on what i saw in the newcastle game, Klopp was barking like a mad dog, angry and what not and the team didn't respond to it at all. That tells me what i need to know. its not knee jerk its what i saw. By the end of season if not before he will loose this LFC dressing room.

03 Oct 2017 12:59:37
Spot on, Zed. I almost don't respond to any of his convoluted posts anymore cos you never really know what side he's on as he is very successful at posting a whole lot and saying nothing all at the same time. Oh, I take that back. He's consistent on "Klopp is wrong and can do nothing right" bla, bla, bla. YAWN!

03 Oct 2017 13:08:05
Akshit, your opinions and projections are not facts so stop projecting them as such. You nor I know nothing about what will happen so enough with the "he will do this, do that or be sacked or not" crap cos you nor I don't know that for a fact. The Newcastle game is just one where the players are low on confidence and are overthinking things in the final third hence, fluffing their lines. That much is clear. If you wanna moan about that and start projecting the future based on that then by all means, have at it. I disagree and that that is that. I would propose that you offer solutions BUT you are clearly interested in moaning and moaning so go ahead. I guess when you moan, our strikers will play better. NOT!

02 Oct 2017 17:30:17
The things I can take away fro the draw yesterday is that Klopp has to make changes early when things are not going to plan. Leaves it for far to late. Maybe he thought Sturridge would pop out of nowhere to get a goal but truth be told, everybody but Klopp and the coaching staff could see that Sturridge was the reason our attack looked out of depth. Firmino should have been brought on start of the second half.

Other than our CB's having another brain fart moment, they were actually not that bad yesterday.

Mignolet, the less said the better. He had very little to do majority of the match but he just simply cannot get the simple things right? His distribution is absolute schoolboy stuff. Still starts though, cannot understand it!

Rest of the team was also on a road trip at 1 mile per hour.

Rafa played for the draw though and is a common trait of his. He got his players to shut out spaces all over the show. Klopp turned a blind eye to that.

The subs I would have made start of the second half would have been Can on for Wijnaldum and Firmino on for Sturridge.

We needed a player who had the ability to charge through Newcastle's midfield = Can and a player to draw Newcastle's defence out = Firmino.

Klopp might have shown his frustrations but continued to be happy seeing bugger all coming together on the pitch. For me, Klopp has to shoulder the most blame for the result. Make the changes early!

Me saying that Klopp should shoulder most of the blame for yesterday does not mean I want him out though otherwise we may have to settle for someone like Allardyce. No top quality managers hanging about unfortunately unless they can be pointed out.

Be careful what you wish for.

Believable3 Unbelievable2

02 Oct 2017 17:58:31
And one more thing, chopping and changing the team all the time ain't going to do any players good. Go with the strongest starting eleven and stick with it.

We have more than enough players to cover for injuries. League and FA Cups mix things up but CL and EPL is where the chopping and changing should stop.

It will be interesting to see how we line up vs UTD. Going to be one hell of a match as always, that is for sure!

02 Oct 2017 17:54:56
We pulled of Klopp from nowhere. If the club decides to move Klopp then they will bring in someone bigger than Klopp! Donâ€™t ask me who I donâ€™t have a name but then I never had Klopp in my mind when Brendan was sacked nor did you!

{Ed025's Note - he was hardly plucked from nowhere harry as he had won the bundesliga with dortmund and was tipped to be the next bayern manager mate..

02 Oct 2017 18:34:03
Did FSG not want to bring in Klopp before Brendan arrived?

Harry, we can sack Klopp and bring in Roberto MartÃnez seeing that you have no suggestions and the fact that there are no quality managers hanging about.

And do not get me started on Ancelotti, he is not going to take over a team which does not have your Ronaldo's and Messi's in it.

02 Oct 2017 18:47:57
Nice comeback, Ed25. I seem to remember that when Klopp was on his sabbatical, the whole footie world was speculating on where he would go and many were surprised that he came to us esp. at the time he did cos we were in a WAY worse situation than we are now. He rejected Utd, Arsenal, City (not sure) as he was looking to take the Bayern job and it did not come so he came to us co he could have waited for it but he came to us.

Max, I agree with your post in part. I don't have a prob with the lineup cs many on here clamor for Studge to get games and when he does start, he is just woeful. Firmino needed a blow as well cos he has been missing chances as well and his confidence may be shot. Klopp may have thought that he is a finisher so if chances come to him, he will bury them. Alas, he fluffed his lines in the worst of ways. He is an impact sub, IMO right now. The midfield did not work either cos Wiji went absent again and Can had a crap game in Moscow so it was normal to change it up a bit. Not saying I agree with all this BUT just trying to understand things.
I do agree he left Studge too long on the pitch BUT I will say that he tried to change it up as he moved Salah to the no. 10 and moved Mane wide right and Mane still had a crap game. Ox came on and frankly, he should have scored on that header even tho, it was a tough chance to take. Had that happened, we got 3 points and something to build upon.

It seems like everything Klopp tries to do to generate a spark is not working and the frustration is showing with him and the players and the fans alike. We just have to stay the course in the hope that we can force our way out of this rot.

02 Oct 2017 19:22:03
I would not say we are in a rot Bingo, bad patch but the main thing for me leading to it is that there is no stability within the starting eleven. We will continue to see up and down results if the starting eleven is changed game in and out.

We have a defence waiting to implode any second in a match but does not make things easier at the rate chopping and changing is happening at the back. How I wish Klopp would just drop Mignolet for good and give either Karius or Ward a run and then settle on is defence selection.

Same with the midfield, Can had a bad game during the week but did that suffice to see him dropped when he is our best CM at the moment?

That is the biggest gripe I have with Klopp at the moment. Instability when it comes to his team selections, that and he waits to late to change things. Firmino going to do nothing with 15 minutes left when the rest of the lads do not know what to do with the ball due to having Newcastle players up in their faces every time the ball is received by a Liverpool player.

This was already apparent towards the end of the first half when Newcastle drew level. Rafa had then already decided the outcome of the game.

When Klopp decided not to do anything start of the second half Rafa ended up having a fat grin on his face. Rafa's players followed the instruction of 'we play for 1 point'.

And that is exactly how it panned out.

02 Oct 2017 19:48:53
Can't argue with any of your post there, Max. Can has to play next to Hendo if he is fit cos Wiji and Hendo is simply not working. The chopping and changing being a problem is well documented as well and some hard decisions have to be made with the GK situation by dropping Migs for good.

Also, Our players are so low on confidence that our midfielders are playing the safer passes and our forwards are so scared to miss that they either panic or overthink things and then the chance is gone. Listening to the Anfield Wrap right now and the boys and Melissa Reddy are saying that Klopp passion tho an asset, is also sending the wrong message to the team. He wears every goal and sadly, every miss on his sleeve and his mannerisms and outbursts are not helping the team. Sometimes, he has to guard his emotions a bit and encourage the team thru its travails BUT I doubt that will happen even tho, he does it at times. We have to just keep fighting as a team and as a club and we have to support the team as they need us right now.

02 Oct 2017 20:28:37
Good original post and enjoyable read that Max. For me I'd like to see a more dynamic midfield of Can, Grujic and Coutinho. It can't do much worse than Hendo who can't play a forward pass and Wijnaldum who must be up there for nomination for hide and seek champion 2017.

02 Oct 2017 20:56:44
Would also like to see a Grujic get a chance in midfield.

02 Oct 2017 22:01:41
Bingo and Max talking to each other! So much love â¤ï¸â¤ï¸. Poetry in motion. la la la la.

03 Oct 2017 00:30:08
I must say, this is a curious situation that Liverpool Football Club are in just now. Curious, because before the weekend, I hadn't sensed the level of disenchantment with the manager that seems to be popping up just now.

There's no doubt that the majority of games feel like deja vu and we should have wiped the floor with Newcastle, given the way the game worked out. But. it will all be okay in the end. Hello to Jason Isaacs!

03 Oct 2017 11:17:58
I'd let Grujic sit down with tapes of Matic and say to him - just copy Matic, that's what we want from you.

Won't happen because Klopp wants Grujic in the opponents box for 90 mins.

03 Oct 2017 13:01:39
Grujic is not a DM, Ron. He is a box to box midfield with a rocket of a right foot and very good in the air. This is why Klopp plays him there as that is his position. Him watching Matic tapes will do nothing for him, right now.

04 Oct 2017 06:15:07
Really? "Klopp plays him there"?
I must have missed those games because this lad has been left in the cold by Klopp.
He'll never get in the team as a b2b midfielder.

02 Oct 2017 16:35:14
Just wanted to ask lads, and Ed001 if he's about, when I see your discussions over an out and out striker, why you let Origi go out on loan? From what I've seen of him in his time at Liverpool and before, he looked a striker of great potential and most importantly, knew where the back of the net was. Is he just out of favour, or does Klopp not think he is ready for regular game time in the premiership.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - he was struggling with being in and out of the side and needed regular playing time to kick on.}

02 Oct 2017 17:33:23
Plus he's not very good.

{Ed025's Note - he wouldn,t even get in the everton side benny..

02 Oct 2017 17:49:24
Cheers, Ed001. Hope he kicks on, as I thought he looked a real talent. Not with you lot, obviously :)

02 Oct 2017 17:43:31
Ings after making a return from injury, boom injured again.

He may very well have made a difference yesterday. Movement was key, which is something Ings would have provided. Sturridge no pun intended looked like an old man on the pitch yesterday.

02 Oct 2017 18:52:04
Spot on, Max. Ed25 in your case, I would not be dissing a third choice LFC striker who has scored 22 goals in two seasons in all comps. There is near NO other third choice striker with those types of numbers in the PL. Frabnkly, you could use a player like Origi right now with Rooney in behind, IMO. N btw, Origi has no problems putting your lot to the sword so glass houses should not throw stones. Just saying.

{Ed025's Note - and its a fair point bingo, i do hope you realize that my comment was very much tongue in cheek mate..

02 Oct 2017 19:47:51
I liked Origi, he'd score goals in bunches.

02 Oct 2017 19:49:57
No probs, Ed Bro. You're my man, no matter what.

03 Oct 2017 09:19:30
Ed025 - Everton fans saying anything about Origi is a slightly sore point considering how badly his progress was hampered by Mori's horror challenge and then kissing his badge as he walked off.

{Ed025's Note - it was an awful challenge hjikle and i said so at the time, but you cant blame his lack of ability and being surplus to requirement on that mate...but i see you are giving it a right old go..

04 Oct 2017 12:00:33
Not claiming anything, just a sore point!

{Ed025's Note - thats in the pas now hjikle so best if we move on mate..

02 Oct 2017 16:19:57
A quick question to the eds if you guys are free. Its been nearly 2 years since klopp took the job and at the time there was big talk of Ancelotti. Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading that klopp said he could win the league with what we have ( I think paisley would even struggle to win the league with our defence) and wouldn't need to spend too much money while CA said he needed to rebuild the whole spin of the team which to be honest looking at the spine of our team compared to the top 6 is pathetic

Clearly klopp does not feel the same as he did 2 years ago? Cause in my eyes and I'm no expert by any stretch we badly need a gk who can catch and kick a ball in a straight line. A cb who can talk without being afraid to hurt there voice (carra its a shame your retired) possibly even 2 cb's not mad about matip but would give him a go with vvd if that happens and I think we need 2 centre mids and a proper striker who knows were the net is.

As carra said yesterday if that Sturidge chance dropped to lukaku Kane or morata that's 2-1 and 3 points. People are baffling me on here saying we don't need a striker cause salah mane and firmino contribute too much which is great and they wouldn't why cause we have a main man up top? but I bet those people would be licking there lips if a Kane or Torres of old or Suarez joined tomorrow.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

02 Oct 2017 19:02:00
IR, Klopp is trying to fix the issues BUT we have to wait for the TW to come up again so till then, we have to work on what we have as he is well aware of the issues as Ed01 has said. Also, we scored near a hundred goals last season (92 to be exact) and are top 5 in the PL for goals scored since Klopp took over playing the exact way we play so to me, that argument is a red herring. Had our boys scored the goals our play deserves, this is not an issue. We hit Arsenal for 4 (could have been 8) and this issue never came up so why is it coming up now after 7 games in?

Also remember, the striker thingy is not full proof either. We have seen Kane, Morata and Lukaku fluff their lines as well this season so NOTHING is an exact science even tho, people make it look that way. I don't have a prob with a striker coming in however, we should just not rip up a proven system just cos you're in a sticky patch. If you have a striker who is also fluffing his lines and in a dry spell, do you rip up that system and go back to the one you had before? That is senseless knee jerk stuff which in the end, is what this debate is, IMO.

Had we stopped creating chances then the debate would be relevant BUT that is not the case. Our issues lie in the fact that our midfield is not clicking right now, our defence is well, our defence and our boys are overthinking things when in good positions to score as we saw again last night. That is where the work needs to be done.

02 Oct 2017 20:31:40
Yes we scored loads and loads of goals last season but sadly Bingo they do not count towards this years league or CL. Have teams worked out how to play against us to nullify our attack?

02 Oct 2017 20:40:13
Klopp said that he believed he could win a trophy with Liverpool in a couple of years. He did not promise the title! He may be a larger than life character but he's no clown (as some would have you believe)

02 Oct 2017 20:45:05
Bingo red. I do agree that its not a given if we got a Kane for arguments sake that we would blow teams away every week 4/ 5 nil with Kane scoring every week 2/ 3 goals. Football doesn't work like that unfortunately. But you can't honestly say you wouldn't change a system that has won us nothing by the way so don't know how its so fantastic, yeah maybe fantastic to watch but leaves us massively exposed at times if players are not switched on but that can go with every system to fit a harry kane / Torres of 07/ 08 Suarez and sarcifice let's say wijinaldum. I don't know why klopp doesn't switch to 4231 play a proper out and out striker up top firmino behind him in the number 10 role which imo is his best position as he always drops deep, links play very well and is a very intelligent footballer someone we are blessed to have and mane and salah on either side. I don't get how salah or mane wouldn't score the same amount of goals as they currently are (both fantastic players by the way) just cause we have a striker up top. You would then have the added protection for the back 4 with 2 midfield's not sitting as such but not running around like headless chickens either. Keita will be interesting next season I think getting him a proper partner in midfield is a must. i've already mentioned fabinho think he is a class act. Can pass short and long, good engine for a Brazilian and is not afraid to get stuck in. Gk and at least 1 centre back for me are prioirites before a striker walks through the door as defence is the main problem and think the spine of the team is very poor for a top club like ourselves trying to get back to were we wanna be. Competing and winning trophies on a regular basis and being a force in Europe again. I know it takes time but we are the only club I know going through transition the word that keeps getting throwing about since our last title win.

03 Oct 2017 13:18:02
IR, I agree with you on the whole and I don't disagree that the system cannot be tweaked a bit BUT you have to look closely at the system we play to understand it. We play with a Firmino-type CF cos of his movement, guile, skill and ability to bully defenders and draw them out of position. The spaces being left behind when this happens, are the spaces that Mane and Salah attack with outside-inside runs hence, creating havoc.

We played a striker in Studge on Sunday and cos he can't do what Firmino can do, he kept taking up the spaces that Mane and Salah normally attack and we all saw how dire he was. This is why we have wide forwards or strikers and not wingers. Look at the Hoff game and Sevilla game at Anfield and you will see how important Firmino is in our system. He was involved in EVERY goal we scored cos of the way he plays and toys with defenders, dropping deep to lay off the ball and the wide forwards attack the space in behind. If you want a top striker, you have to play with real wingers whipping balls in hence, you have to rip up the whole system and like you know, you can't do that. Just my take.

03 Oct 2017 16:59:26
Bingored. I agree 100% that firmino is vital to the team 100%. He is a fantastic footballer and a player we are blessed to have imo. I don't agree with you have to play proper wingers to have a striker up top. Torres Suarez Henry lacazette benzema (Costa) as I wouldn't class hazard or Pedro proper wingers they are as much like mane and salah all those didn't need wingers wipping balls in left right and centre to get goals. Could they score if balls were wipped into them 100% but they didn't rely on it . If you are going for a striker like benteke/ carroll then to play to there strength you would need proper wingers that could ping crosses all day to get the best out of them. They are limited in terms of what way you can set up as you can only play one way with a striker like that. For argument sake Suarez he could do everything. Could play up top on his own and still cause defenders nightmares, could play out wide, behind the striker ect ect my point is just because we buy a striker Werner would be a fantastic player (only really started watching him this season when the wife allows me) I don't think it would impact the amount of goals/ assists that mane/ salah/ firmino would get. Firmino will cause caous whether he is playing up top on his own or in a number 10 defenders will be worrying about him and he will still create the space for mane, salah or let's say a werner. Think 4231 is the way to go going forward but that's me I'm not saying I'm an expert by an stretch but think with a main man up top and 2cm not sitting but offering a better balance and offering support to defenders instead of can hendo and wini chasing shadows (its great when it does work) but all teams have to do is play long and that is the whole formation out the window.

{Ed025's Note - when you say "firmino will cause chaos" IR89 he is already doing that mate to liverpools attack..

03 Oct 2017 17:46:15
Ed025. What is your opinion of firmino pal? I think he is a fantastic player but don't and will never be convinced that he is a striker/ forward/ main man whatever you wanna word it. I think him behind someone like Kane which will never happen but someone even more realistic like a Werner would be cause defenders nightmares. People are convinced if he is not played up top that suddenly mane and salah goals and assists will start drying up but I honestly don't see how. He is vital to our team yes I agree 100% but not to a point were you sacrifice a striker of kane I know I keep using him ability. People are obsessed with this formation claiming it works ect but to my knowledge we haven't won zilch and I'm not bashing klopp as I'm a huge fan but he has flaws like the rest of us. None of us are perfect but we can't be blinded by problems that are constantly being talked about and scoring is not our main problem but strikers like your henry's Suarez's Torres win you the games you win 1-0 on a rainy nite in stoke ect. I think 4231 better protection to our frail back 4 and still can be dangerous with mane salah coutinho till the summer and firmino and get a striker in Jan or the summer.

{Ed025's Note - firmino is never a striker IR89, he will be couts replacement if he goes to barca i imagine, he misses too many chances for me and as well as not being prolific he finds it difficult to take up scoring positions, liverpool create tons of chances and a decent striker would score 25 goals a season imo mate, unfortunately firmino is not one..

03 Oct 2017 18:13:41
Ed025. I agree 100% with firmino not being a striker nor will he ever be. Appreciate the reply ed.

{Ed025's Note - no probs mate..

02 Oct 2017 15:19:02
Ed025. I told you that you need to stop saying we're going to thump teams!

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed025's Note - i know hsf, to be honest i thought you were better than that performance, mane was not his usual self and even salah was below par but to be honest it was your midfield that let you down, wiji and hendo were very weak and so negative in all they did, you can blame me all you want mate but for a team who,s aspirations is to be winning things you looked well short...mind you who am i to be critical of any team after the debacle we witnessed at goodison yesterday..

02 Oct 2017 16:14:37
Spot on, Ed. I guess misery loves company. The midfield did not help at all cos Wiji was anonymous hence, Hendo was all alone trying to do two jobs at the same time. This is where Lallana would be useful as he offers more creativity and guile than the other 3 do. As for your lot, it is really dire and frankly, Koeman is on severely borrowed time, atm.

{Ed025's Note - absolutely bingo, we are a joke at the moment and its only the reds being poor thats keeping us going mate..

02 Oct 2017 17:08:04
Don't worry Ed, I know you're not the real cause lol. You were in Moscow though!

{Ed025's Note - i get the blame for everything hsf, my 2 lads are reds and they think im a jonah as well mate..

02 Oct 2017 14:16:45
The international break is usually a nightmare for us stalling momentum but this time round it's a good thing. Gives Klopp and the team an opportunity to reset the season and get focussed for the Utd game. A good result will kick us on to Xmas.

Believable4 Unbelievable1

02 Oct 2017 16:16:18
Spot on, RR. At least the boys and the manager can get away to some training camp in Spain and just hunker down and work on things. The int'l break may be a bad time for Utd and City and Arsenal who have been on a good run of late. We shall see.

02 Oct 2017 14:32:09
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Newcastle United v Liverpool Match Review - A Liverpool Perspective

Believable2 Unbelievable0

02 Oct 2017 18:25:54
Can't argue with any of that eds, thought that performance should stop any debate about Firminos importance to our attacking formation.

Also Moreno is already a contender for most improved player this season (granted he couldn't have got any worse, but credit where it's due) . He works hard and is very committed, some of his team mates could do with a bit of his drive.

Furthermore if ever a match shows Can he needs to leave for regular football that was it, there was no drive/ commitment from any of the midfield.

02 Oct 2017 18:37:23
Ed01 i agree with most of what you have wrote, usually i have nothing to add.

Migs= if you watch it agen as a keeper if you start to come for the ball you go and comit yourself, you don't come then decide to back track. Honestly ave never seen a guy so feared of the 50/ 50 balls he is perfetic mate.

Moreno=i agree he is made the scapgoat but a lot of his end product (crosses) are the worst ave seen. But he does try him heart out bless him

Gini= a remember when we signed him a wasn't really hung up on him and he is proving me right, he definitely is our weak link week in week out.

Hendo= a love him but he needs to start playing the ball forward and usually does with can beside him

Sturridge= poor very poor, it seems to me that he just isn't bothering to try, and it's probably best he leaves in jan as lfc and him are no good together any more.
But over all another good review ed01 always look forward to them pal.

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate. I agree Moreno's crosses are often poor, but that game both fullbacks provided decent balls in to no one.}

02 Oct 2017 19:18:57
Great read, Ed. Our boys look completely beleaguered esp. in midfield as the two in midfield simply does not work in Wiji and Hendo. Can and Hendo are not perfect together BUT a much better fit while we await Lallana to come back in as he gives a lot more creativity and guile in CM. The defence and esp. the CB's was just criminal. They learnt nothing from City's first goal and left Shelvey alone like they did KDB to play the pass and the gap btw both CB's was criminal.

And To those saying that we need a real poacher in the box, Studge and Ed just blew that debate right out of the water as Studge showed that he is not a patch on Firmino in the Klopp system. Had Firmino played, the CB's would have been drawn out of positions to create space for Mane and Salah to run into. This is why we are as devastating as we have been under Klopp. We just have to keep working hard and hope Klopp can stop this chopping and changing cos it is definitely not helping.

02 Oct 2017 13:15:04
Seem that Henderson needs be bench for our system to be quicker and more dynamic. Serious how many square and backpasses does he want to do in a match. its so predictable. He has poor 1st touch, cannot dribble. Once in a while he made Hollywood 40 yard pass and people say that he is has vision. Once inn a while a thru pass. Surely there are better options.

Believable6 Unbelievable1

02 Oct 2017 14:16:22
I don't really understand all the stick henderson gets? There are other midfielders at the club who aren't performing as well, more so than henderson.

02 Oct 2017 14:56:28
You have to consider why he wasn't attempting forward passes, when you have 11 players in front of you it's really hard to pick out your teammates. Instead you go sideways searching for a different avenue of approach.

02 Oct 2017 16:21:42
Or RR, you could address the fact that Hendo was left alone to do actually everything in CM as Wiji went absent AGAIN for the most part.

Also, This idea of side ways passing being bad is one thing that beggars belief and a completely dumb talking point. Barcelona made a career out of sideways passing in front of a low block cos that is how you move the block around, create space in behind and create overloads out wide. Every team does this and City and Arsenal (for years) have been doing this all season YET when we do it and Hendo and the rest do this, it is suddenly a stick to beat them with. Utter nonsense! I doubt if people actually watch football with their eyes open instead of with their eyes wide shut.

{Ed025's Note - what hendo does and what barca do are chalk and cheese bingo, barca players are not static and do move the ball forward, i agree that wiji did not help mate but hendo is hardly blameless for me..

02 Oct 2017 19:21:48
Ed25, I did not say that Barcelona play the wy we play or Hendo plays the Barcelona style. I was talking in general about sideways passing being a criticism as Barcelona and many other teams mentioned in my post, do the same things. Of course, there needs to be movement in front of him BUT there was not really that much and Wiji was not helping either esp. he was nit getting forward to create overloads as the runner from deep.

02 Oct 2017 12:27:29
A number of you have argued that we're fine, that we're just one point behind fourth and that people are over reacting but you're in denial. Of the 7 games we've played in the league we've only played at a level expected of this team once. Our performances against Leicester, Newcastle, Watford, Palace and Burnley have all been sub par. People say we haven't had the rub of the green but top teams don't rely on luck, they take luck out of the equation by savage superiority over their opposition.

Yesterday we saw two approaches to playing football, the first saw a manager pick a game plan that gave his team the best chance of getting a result, the players were drilled in that plan, stuck to it and won a point. The other team had no plan, it was just a collection of players who didn't know what to do, that team dropped two points.

Players are picked on as scapegoats. The CBs were at fault but who's telling them to play so high? Henderson passes sideways but we're playing so slow that that the other team has an age to get back and block his forward options. The forwards aren't scoring but we're not playing to their strengths.

By luck we're still in the battle for top four but, right now, is there anyone who believes that this team, playing like this, will win more points than Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal over the next 31 games? I don't. Right now Klopp's limitations as a manager are being exposed. It's right now he needs to prove to us that he's as good as we hope he is, he needs to recognise the faults, come up with solutions and implement them on the pitch. Klopp has excellent players at his disposal, he must find a way to get the best out of them.

Klopp's at a turning point, we can still have an excellent season but he must find a way to get us out of this rut, not soon, but now. If he manages it then this bad run can be forgotten, if he can't then this is the beginning of the end of his time at Liverpool.

Believable5 Unbelievable3

02 Oct 2017 13:04:22
He has to get a top 4 minimum and at this rate that is not happening to me! They say we have no divine right to beat anyone so they are ok with a draw!

02 Oct 2017 13:50:23
If klopp doesn't sort that defence his days are numbered. Being able to write a book on defendin is all well and good but if you don't have defenders that can read your fkd.

02 Oct 2017 14:11:58
Once again we got behind the opposition plenty. Klopp doesn't tell players to miss the clear cut chances they create. I cannot explain why the players aren't burying the chances that they previously were.

02 Oct 2017 14:20:56
What is different this season? Ed01 do you have any ideas why we look a different team to the one that started so well last season? I can't work it out? We have the same players plus a few additions. I believe we are really missing lallana, he was amazing at the start of last season but it can't be just that can it? I guess we could say these are games we were losing last year. I can't understand it.

{Ed001's Note - for me it is down to the constant chopping and changing of the team. They are struggling to get a rhythm going and to gel. Usually you have a run of 5 or 6 games together before making changes and players get into the swing of it, that has not happened for us.}

02 Oct 2017 14:48:26
Beef, even if we had scored the second goal my point wouldn't change, we're just not playing well. Yesterday we could have won and just like in the Leicester and Palace games we would have got three points but if we continue playing at this level we'll lose and draw as often as we win and that's not good enough for our aspirations.

02 Oct 2017 14:54:11
100% agree ed. posted a few times now that it's just ridiculous the consistent changing of goal keeper and defense, I can't fathom why he keeps doing it. I can understand Reston can and firminho after Russia in midweek, does anyone know have we played the same 11 in back to back games this season, and if so have we done it more than once?

02 Oct 2017 16:29:48
Ed is spot on. I do agree that it is not easy for Klopp to play his preferred CB pairing cos Lovren plays injured (back problem) hence, he may need a blow at times BUT, the other parts of the team need to be set. It's early in the season so the boys should still be fit and get a run of games in a set 11 lineup. The chopping and changing is killing us esp. at GK. We have to go with a first choice 11 and stick to it for 4-5 games and go from there.

I do agree that in midfield, Lallana is a big miss as he offers more guile and skill and creativity in CM that is lacking from the other midfield 3, you know, something to switch it up a bit. Also, what is Klopp to do when players are missing sitters in front of goal? Is Studge and Salah's penchant for fluffing their lines at crucial moments Klopp's fault? The system changing will NOT suddenly make both players and Firmino suddenly become ruthless. It does not work that way even tho many moaners and pundits, want you to believe the contrary. We just have to keep working hard and supporting the players cos believe me, they are the most affected by this issue as they feel responsible for us not winning hence, forcing Klopp to have to deal with this constant nonsense he really, has no control over or is he going to go on the pitch and score for them?

{Ed002's Note - You are right, Klopp is the best manager in the wiorld and has no control over what happens at all.}

02 Oct 2017 19:24:23
Not too bothered with that response, Ed as nowhere did I mention that, nor have I ever mentioned that he is the best manager in the world.

{Ed002's Note - Just "world class" then. I lose track of the nonsense.}

02 Oct 2017 19:51:29
Nope, never mentioned that either. Not ever.

02 Oct 2017 11:54:47
Excuse my little rant, away from the poor form comments, Â£53 each I'm paying to watch the mighty Maribor. Ticket prices are absolutely scandalous.
I know it's a European night but really!? .
Â£53.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

02 Oct 2017 10:11:29
Have you gotten around to a match review Ed01, should be very interesting reading.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - in the middle of it now.}

02 Oct 2017 17:53:27
Surely it's a copy and paste job.

02 Oct 2017 09:21:16
Quick question for Ed001.

Did you think we lacked any real urgency in the second half?

There are those that are pointing to the travel from Russia, fatigue, I don't buy that though. You look at United for instance, they played a day later in Russia and had one less day to prepare yet were full of energy.

I would never be seen to entertain the thought but I think this International break might just do us some good, providing no one comes back injured. The only downside is the Brazilian boys with their travel.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - we did seem to, but it seemed to come from the centre backs. Perhaps it was fatigue, at least that would explain why they fell asleep at the vital moment....

It just felt like they were lacking movement and, with no out ball over the top to Salah or Mane, they lacked ideas too.}

02 Oct 2017 11:03:16
Moscow is only a 3 hour flight and they are on a private jet.
3 hours on a private jet doesn't cause fatigue.

02 Oct 2017 12:33:19
Being jaded is not an issue, IMO and we knew that it may come later in the second half. This is why we needed to take our early chances in the first half and then look to sit deep when fatigue would set in later. Alas, that did not happen.

02 Oct 2017 08:50:53
Oops, pressed send by accident. The third is what should we expect from a replacement? Studge is a backup, we're not going to replace him with someone of proven quality, we'd replace him with someone with potential and there are no guarantees in that scenario.

I've seen enough this season to suggest he's had still got it, just that he's a way away from 100%. He's got this season to make his case. If he's still struggling by the summer we have to move on though.

Believable0 Unbelievable2

02 Oct 2017 11:26:15
It's a shame that if he's just rusty or not fit- by the time he gets back to himself, he'll likely pick up another injury. He's still got magical feet. Perhaps he could work on improving his game without needing to rely on his explosive pace. I don't think he'll struggle to get his finishing back. Maybe just improve positioning and runs. And perhaps stop coming so deep.

{Ed002's Note - "Magical feet"? Maybe he could do kids parties?}

02 Oct 2017 12:04:14
It'll be something to do after his contract runs out. He's clever not to put all his eggs in one basket with this whole footballing lark.

02 Oct 2017 12:37:24
I disagree, Putney. Studge ain't got nothing left. Look at the Moscow game where he missed a sitter. Look at the guilt edged chance he got last night and fluffed it. He got a ball over the top last night that the Studge of old with his pace would have gotten to and chipped the GK and scored. He was gasping for air just to get to it. Face it, bro. The guy may still be able to do a job BUT clearly, he ain't got nothing left and I don't expect him to be here next season. Btw, this is coming from someone who wanted him kept after he helped us get top 4 last season.

02 Oct 2017 08:46:55
There are a few things to consider here. The first is that Sturridge is not playing well. If he was in form he'd have around 3 or 4 goals already. The second question is ' is he shot? ' Sturridge had shown flashes of his quality and he's been well placed to score on a number of occasions. It's it a confidence issue? Is he stick on 99 goals?

Believable1 Unbelievable1

02 Oct 2017 11:03:53
Not sure the formation suits him myself.

02 Oct 2017 08:33:18
Liverpool fans need to look themselves in mirror. Is the team good enuf even for top4 this season? If no please do not expect good performances every match. Expect 90% we play average games and 10% good games. That should be correct expectation.

Believable1 Unbelievable3

02 Oct 2017 10:23:31
All I ask for is 100% effort from everyone. Sometimes you have to admit that the opposition is better than you. However when it's the same mistakes week in week out / season after season surely some questions need to be answered.

02 Oct 2017 08:32:26
Klopp will have a complete season and if he do manages to get a minimum Top 4 then he will keep his job for another year else he will be replaced! In between he has one transfer window to throw money on players.
Personally I can't see this current liveroool side finishing above UTD, City, Chelsea and Spurs! And that is me being very diplomatic and ruling out Arsenal completely! No top 4 means no VVD, No Mane ( possibly ) and No Coutinho! Transition yet again!

Believable6 Unbelievable1

02 Oct 2017 09:26:33
What did we expect though? Terrible transfer window.
I'm not shocked in the slightest to be honest we didn't improve the squad so we've fell behind. Simple.

02 Oct 2017 09:43:22
We have spend decent money this Window and kept players at the club against eye likes of Barca! You canâ€™t blame on TR for conceding stupid goals every week!

02 Oct 2017 11:12:58
This past transfer window was a disaster and just widened the gap between us and the title contenders. Salah aside, not one player we signed will have any significant impact on our season. Robertson continues to be sidelined for reasons unknown, Solanke is still a kid and AOC? You got to be kidding me. 40 million pounds on an average player that is not trusted to be on the pitch for important games more than 10 minutes is just stupidity of the highest order.
And then we complain about LFC not having financial might when we spend on players like AIC who will do nothing for the club's future.
Fail to finish top4 and we might as well put Mane and Coutinho (our only top players) on the transfer list coz they will want out anyways. Klopp needs to start earning his money. Honeymoon period's over. Time to walk the talk or leave Jurgen.

02 Oct 2017 12:44:44
So Klopp out then after two full seasons, IB and the rest? Just come out and say it cos you're doing everything else BUT saying it. News Flash: Cou and Can are leaving regardless of the season's outcome so it's not going to matter what happens. As for Klopp, no one knows what will happen so projections are just that, projections, which by the way, are not facts.