Liverpool Banter Archive May 02 2017

02 May 2017 20:22:06
Hi Eds, Just wandering if LFC or any clubs for that matter are showing interest in RB Leipzigs Keita, Forsberg or Werner? Obviously RB have a lot of money so I'm guessing it wouldn't be easy. They play a fast paced pressing game and any of the three would suit our playstyle.
Just a shot in the dark really, played a bit too much FM.

{Ed002's Note - You should be asking such questions on the European pages, or try the search engine. This is the Liverpool page.}

02 May 2017 22:47:05
Yellow Jelly it's been suggested we hold a very keen Interest in Keita, whether RBL would be interested in a sale is another matter.

03 May 2017 08:48:20
Keita would certainly add first team quality to the team - CL is apparently crucial though and, even with that, it could be difficult to get over the line given other factors such as transfer fee, wages, interest from others, etc etc.

02 May 2017 18:02:11
Bit of talk about sturridge as per, but personally hopes he stays. Yeah he's a big wage, but from his personal point of view I doubt he will be any fitter for another club than Liverpool. If we get a winger who can cover striker, that would be ideal, as said by ed01.
If Ings comes back strong next season then maybe move him on, but if he does manage to get fit, he is better than we can replace.

02 May 2017 23:31:28
Injuries aside Sturridge is a wonderful and pure striker and if you manage his training programs and injuries he could easily play for another team. He will score goals. There is no doubt on it. He is just 27 and what he need is a 10 games run ( close to 30-45 mts per game )

03 May 2017 12:59:08
The Studge we all knew doesn't exist anymore due to injuries and even if he were fit, can he do all the work Firmino does, all the things Klopp requires? That is an open question. he will leave and we will all move on.

02 May 2017 14:33:01
Good day Eds!
In your opinion who is the "closest" most likely signing for Liverpool at this moment, if there is any?
As always appreciate your hard work.
Thank you!

{Ed002's Note - There is no way I can answer that, sorry.}

02 May 2017 18:10:18
I'm no seer, but i would probably say someone who lives right by the club.

02 May 2017 15:49:53
:D
No worries!
Thank you for your work!

02 May 2017 21:10:50
You got off lightly there Appalachian 😄.

03 May 2017 12:01:19
I know. Right?

🤣.

02 May 2017 12:35:56
Hi Eds and Reds, got a general question for you, what you think of this planned video replay a fifth official sitting in a room saying whether offside or not for example. personally i am against it totally for two main reasons, one. the speed of football is one of the best things about it and it will slow it down and go towards making it a longer match and could eventually end up like nfl (which although i love nfl taking 3 hours for a 60 minute game is nuts)
two. mistakes will still happen and i have a good example for this, man utd vs anderlect the ibrahimavic goal, the pundits during the game couldn't even agree whether it onside or offside the official bt have on their books couldn't determine straight away which was right, so if they couldn't do this and where still disagreeing after 5 minutes how is an extra official going to make those snap calls and expect to be right all the time it will slow the game down then add all other decisions he thinks the ref has got wrong football will he be speaking to the ref to change his decision or is he just going to be there to be called on if needed. To me this right up there with van bastens ideas for sin bins and no offside.

{Ed001's Note - I am with you, in that I think this is the wrong way to do it.}

02 May 2017 14:11:38
Perhaps if this is a likely route, it can be similar to tennis in that the teams have a set amount of things they can challenge.

02 May 2017 14:16:01
I have my reservations and I've heard a lot of good arguments both for and against it. If it slows things down too much, it'll ruin the game as you say. Ultimately, we're not going to know until it's properly tested, so why not give it a go? If works keep it. If not, take it away and maybe try something else.

02 May 2017 14:25:22
Personally I feel you are looking at extreme circumstances. So let's look at extreme circumstances which would be helped via video. Dirty tackles and stamps. Obvious fouls like shirt pulling and the hot topic of diving. People will say these offences could be dealt with with retrospective action by the fa but let's face it it isn't. So personally I think it's inevitable we will see video being brought in which I support. Let's face it enough time gets wasted now during matches via the decisions which are being made now. Plus we see players fighting and dissent to the officials for the decisions being made. Which is another part of the game which needs to be cleaned up as it sets a bad example to the younger generations.

02 May 2017 15:03:49
I think it could be put in for penalty decisions and goals which have a suspicion of offside. Because it takes a while to get a penalty organised and by that time a video ref could have watched the incident several times and be able to give the right verdict. Same with offside goals. By the time the team stop celebrating you would have a decision. If they're too close for a quick call then the goal/ penalty stands.

{Ed001's Note - the only time I have seen a video ref used, it was in the A-League and it took over two minutes and still came to the wrong decision.....}

02 May 2017 15:19:12
I would be in favor only in circumstance where the ref is unsure and play has already stopped (i. e. a goal being awarded but unsure on offside) and I think each side should have just one challenge only in event of a penalty or a goal being awarded.

02 May 2017 15:24:01
Bruffio, they should do it the way it is done in the NFL. If there is not enough evidence to overturn the call after looking at it closely for however long required, the ruling on the field stands. It is effective on this front however since the offside rule has so many grey areas in it, there would still be problems.

02 May 2017 15:43:35
I think each team should get 1 referal per half. But I also love watching rugby league and that's a fast game and they have video ref.

02 May 2017 15:54:14
Zimbo mate I'm with you only review decision if it leads to a goal penalty where the game is already stopped anyway or in the case of bad tackles while a player is being treated where the game is already stopped.

02 May 2017 16:39:27
Do you stop the play if the ref is unsure about a pen, what I mean by that is currently if it's a pen it's a pen and the game is stopped. It's not stopped if the ref doesn't think it is one and therefore no natural break in play. So scenario, ref correctly calls no pen, team goes down the other end and scores, perfect. New scenario, ref is unsure so thinks id better use video or I'll get destroyed, game stops but he was right, no pen. Other team is back and organised defensively now. Or does the game carry on and he halts it 30seconds later and it all gets called back.
I just cannot see a way the game is not irrevocably changed. Tennis, NFL are almost like lots of individual points played separately. They stop and can be replayed, or a decision made. Even rugby stops. Football is so flued that an entire game could turn out differently if the 1st kick off was played to different players. According to string theory that's happening somewhere and so somewhere we're winning the league every year 😂👍.

02 May 2017 16:45:14
*fluid not flued!

02 May 2017 18:08:13
In hockey they do referrals and the ref can chose. I worry about referrals as surely a team could just refer a nothing tackle when the other team is on the counter to stop them. Similarly, if the ref isn't sure, do they wait for play to stop, or do they just do it as soon as - if no foul occurred, again it could stop a counter. Or it could be 10 minutes before the ball goes out again.

02 May 2017 19:45:53
In the Watford game, we saw a ref get hit by the ball and make up a rule on the spot to cover for it. We also saw them miss several fouls and offsides simply from not watching the flow of the game first. Video refs can't help if they don't do themselves any favours - every once in a while there will be an extreme case (like Costa's stamp on Can when play had moved well on last season, or a foul right on the edge of the box where the ref can't see if its in or out) but they won't reverse the wave of bad decisions happening in the flow of play right now which are caused by little more than the poor positioning and attention of refs. What will help is better training and better fitness.

02 May 2017 20:44:26
For me they should only review goals scored as there is a natural break in play anyways. And then if they really want to go there, then allow the referee to review potential penalty incidents.

02 May 2017 11:35:20
Somebody this morning mentioned that Firmino is only able to link up with Couthino.

This kind of rubbish really gets under my skin when I see comments like that, for the simple reason it's just a really silly thing to say if you know anything about the game and player positioning and movement and also spaceial awareness.

Watch what Firmino does when he realises Can is looking for the liberal behind Firmino and how Firmino takes 3 strides towards his midfield away from the box to. create enough space for Can to overlap and take that wonder goal last night. He has done this type of thing all over the field all season and is one of the best in the premier league at the moment with his movement.

02 May 2017 12:20:05
I see where both sides are coming from, but I watch Firmino a lot during matches and he gets more involved in games with Coutinho than when he is isolated up front. Yesterday, most of his play was with Milner or making runs to make space for others. Either way, he is a vital component that needs more help in these kind of matches so that we can play to his strengths.

02 May 2017 15:26:48
Spot on, Savvy. I saw that play as well. It is normal that Firmino will have a better affinity with Couts as they are not just good footballers BUT best mates off it. That is human. But to say he plays better when Couts is on the pitch is laughable. The guy is a genius REGARDLESS of who he plays with. Now can he feed off Couts when both are on the pitch? Absolutely BUT that is where it ends.

02 May 2017 19:49:54
Firmino plays better when Coutinho is on form. As does every other attacking player in Liverpool and Brazil. He's a phenomenal player, that's what phenomenal players do - release the talents of others even while making their own impact.

02 May 2017 23:35:29
FIrmino cannot play on the flanks and it doesn't change with the inclusion of Couts in the team.

02 May 2017 10:40:21
Ed's has there been any change in tactics with the keepers? The past couple of weeks migs has been controlling the box a lot more and makes a canny bit of difference!

{Ed001's Note - it is the training that has changed. Achteberg and some other coaching staff bash the keepers with pads when they practice catching balls. Just gets them used to being battered, so they are not scared of the hits and can just concentrate on getting the ball rather than worrying about being clattered by Deeney.}

02 May 2017 11:06:44
I would like mignolet to now become more vocal, he has been at the club long enough to dish out some verbals when the occasion calls for it.

02 May 2017 11:27:26
Whatever they have been doing they need to keep it up I have been critical of the goalkeeper staff because the keepers have been making silly mistakes but got to give them credit when it's due hats off to them.

02 May 2017 11:55:08
Don't think there's a cure for Mignolwts distribution.

02 May 2017 12:00:20
yes mignolet has definitely been far more confident in picking up balls from crosses. this is a big improvement imo, not the saves that should have been saved anyway kind of improvement.

02 May 2017 17:31:36
just opinion but I feel one reason there's so few GKs who organise and dominate is so much is now planned and managed and the need for keepers to be organisers is only really noticed once there's a problem not as the default position.

02 May 2017 21:44:13
Ed1 I thought I saw footage of the pads being used months ago? Or is it only now having an affect?

{Ed001's Note - it can take a long time for training methods to show a true effect, especially as we don't see him put under much pressure most weeks. This was the first week we had faced a real attempt to put crosses into the box for a big man and he showed the training has made a definite difference.}

02 May 2017 09:14:36
judging by what i've read here this morning this will go against a lot of peoples thoughts, but i think origi is close to being a really top player for us.

Firstly what we have to realise in the system we play when teams sit deep it is less about the striker getting goals as it is helping to create space which will hopefully lead to goals. He ran the channels all night was good at switching positions with firmino and coutinho at the start which is another big aspect of what our striker will need and one thing where sturridge lacks.

Also his pressing is fantastic and he tries his hardest for the team, his hold up play and strength on the ball has improved incredibly this season and i can't remember seeing anyone get near him for strength this season.

But alas he is not setting the world alight, and people seem to be quite happy either getting a new striker or playing firmino up top and imo there are a couple of reasons for this.

In comparison to firmino playing up top origi doesn't have that next level of close controll and bit of magic up the sleeve in the same way firmino does, although his controll has improved notably but i think he is lacking a bit of confidence, To make up for the lack of goals he might get being clean through as teams sit deep he might need to put some serious work in on the shooting from 20-25 yards as he will probably get more opportunities from this range than in the box.

Secondly is goals from crosses which may as well be 0. With origi on the pitch this is an area that has to be improved upon but for me this is more the lack of full backs rather than origis fault. Im not saying he would be burying every decent cross in but until we get some decent deliveries into the box it is unfair to judge him in this aspect.

All in all though i think he is developing very nicely and people going mad about dembele for example up in scotland. Having watched him a lot and the goals celtic have been scoring i would easily imagine divock could get 20+ goals up their easily. I think a bit of work and a bit of patience with this boy and he could develop into a fine fine player!

02 May 2017 09:29:50
Agree with you Shane, well put 👍

I've no concerns about Divock, he's going to be better than Lukaku in a couple of years. We should give the lad a new contract.

02 May 2017 10:29:49
Although he has improved he still needs to be better at releasing the ball earlier- he tends to have too many unnecessary touches and hold up play not good enough
Last night towards the end he had the ball on the right hand side and instead of winning a throw promptly returned the ball to Watford so they could launch an attack.

02 May 2017 10:38:03
think that is knitpicking slightly mane as he had done exceedingly well winning throws and retaining possession all night and that was at the end after him putting in a huge shift when he was tired and was all on his own.

02 May 2017 10:45:50
Think you're going to get a lot of disagrees about the lukaku comment ron but I understand what you mean I think as it would be hard for origi to match lukakus goal scoring record as that is undoubtebly very impressive but his overall game and contribution to the team could very well be greater than lukakus. again for example would people want firmino or lukaku up top for our team or that matter benteke, firmino would probably guarantee the least amount of goals but clearly his contribution all round is much much more.

02 May 2017 12:02:20
Origi is only a young lad who is going to get better and better.

A lot here want lads from the u23s to step up to the first team but think Origi should already be the finished product.

I think he has done well.

02 May 2017 12:48:04
Origi had the talent and the athleticism but he lacks the aptitude. I'll be happy to be wrong about it but I don't see him becoming a top class striker.

02 May 2017 13:27:24
I think he has all the necessary elements, it's just whether he'll develop into something good or something very very special IMO. it's between the ears that counts now.

The best thing about him is I think he's a bit like a young Harry Kane, and has nothing seemingly truly exceptional but he has it all. he's able to hold it up effectively, run in behind, score with his feet, score with his head (although could be better with his height) and has decent movement and desire to win the ball back. He still has quite a bit to learn but I'm confident we'll be very happy to have him a couple of years (just like Kane who wasn't rated a couple of years ago but now most teams would bite your hand off for him)

02 May 2017 14:38:37
Hypothetically. If you are given three players to choose from, Rashford, Origi and Gabriel Jesus. Who would you choose. All young upcoming strikers.

02 May 2017 14:44:35
Couldn't agree more, I think the lad has a really bright future.

Only concern for me is positioning, there are numerous times when he does a Benteke and is not making the run a deadly striker makes.

02 May 2017 15:36:54
love your post, Shane. I have no qualms with Origi as he is developing very nicely, IMO. If you want him to start scoring like Studge and Lukaku while he's still developing the you will be disappointed and it would be nobody else's fault but yours for such expectation.

He has all the tools needed and that is a fact. He just needs to play more, learn quicky, get better service (as our crosses from FB's are awful) and put it all together. Klopp really believes in him and so do many of us. He'll be fine cos his attitude and work ethic are exemplary BUT it's up to him to take advantage of his opportunities.

02 May 2017 16:30:15
Harry to answer your question, maybe bias within this but personally I'd stick with Origi, he has experience of international tournaments, where he made an impact, knows the league now, is settled, don't get me wrong both Rashford and Jesus's have qualities and Jesus's in particular looks to be a special talent but he hasn't even had a full season in the league yet, we've all seen players come in, do great for a season and then get found out, only time will determine the validity of such subjecture, good to discuss, maybe it was me but you appeared to use that question as a way of demeaning OrigI Harry? Point is we don't have Rashford or Jesus, we can only work with what we have or procure going forward.

02 May 2017 17:33:23
I'd stick with Origi but he needs consistency and to be moving on now. He's still relatively young but top players have shown up more by now, so either he's a late developer or he's not going to be the top class option in the long term.

02 May 2017 18:54:44
Spot on, Unconditional. Gab Jesus is a special player who is the best CF I have seen coming out of Brazil since the legendary Ronaldo. The kid has everything and if you watch him play next to Neymar and Couts for Brazil, you will see why. there's a reason Pep wants him to start ahed of Aguero even tho Aguero is a beast. Comparing Jesus with Origi is nonsense as Jesus is the better player clearly and more experienced as he is Brazil's no. 1 CF while Origi is no. 2 or 3 for Belgium.

As for Rashford, he is NOT in Origi's league as all he has is pace and absolutely NOTHING more. He does not possess, the dribbling skils, power, hold up play and aerial ability Origi possesses so that comparison makes no sense. He is not fit to lace the boots of the man many have labeled "a mixture of Thierry Henry and Didier Drogba". Nuff said!

02 May 2017 07:12:37
Message for negativeredwalter:

Top 6 guaranteed 😎.

02 May 2017 06:00:33
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Liverpool v Watford Match Review - A Liverpool Perspective

02 May 2017 06:02:03
My match review, I will continue to put them on FNV in the future.

02 May 2017 08:33:27
a very fair review ed001, I would have liked our passing to have been a bit quicker, we nearly paid the price for not getting the 2nd goal when Watford hit the bar at the death, which would have been harsh on us as we deserved the win.

{Ed001's Note - we do need to sharpen up our passing at times.}

02 May 2017 10:12:11
I started to like Wijnaldum for the last few matches.

02 May 2017 02:48:59
I think Origi needs to play to his strengths more. I understand its harder when they sit deep but he plays best off the shoulder of the last defender. How many times today did he try and beat a defender and lose possession. It was driving me crazy before the sub.

02 May 2017 04:29:59
he is simply out of form atm, sturridge showed more goal threat when he came on.

02 May 2017 07:13:55
He should be sub at the moment. He plays better as a super sub and Firmino plays better through the middle.

02 May 2017 08:19:28
Had Sturridge not got injured Firmino and Origi would be warming the bench by now.

02 May 2017 09:23:21
Warming it for Sturridge so he doesn't get cold?

Sorry UEFA but Firmino would not be on the bench.

02 May 2017 10:55:12
Origi is tall, fast, strong, skilful and works hard. All the attributes that should make him a world beater.

The fact that he is not. shows that something else is missing. I think the missing factors are a genuine football brain and desire. His decision making and final ball is often disappointing and he doesn't show the desire of a Costa or a Suarez to make it difficult for defenders.

I can't remember the game, but a long ball was putting two defenders under pressure as they back-pedalled to deal with it. Costa or Suarez would have forced their body between those defenders and won the ball or forced a mistake. Origi politely slowed down and let them deal with it. That's the difference, and he should think about that next time he is on the bench and wondering why he is not playing.

{Ed001's Note - his age and lack of experience is more of an issue than the lack of a genuine football brain. He is still learning the game, players never play his role well when young.}

02 May 2017 13:07:22
I take your point Ed1, as he has time to learn. He needs to be taught to get himself into positions between the sticks in the 6 yard box, where he will score more goals, which will increase his confidence. I don't think he has that natural instinct of someone like Aldo.

02 May 2017 16:12:09
Kloppo, he is a very intelligent player and DOES have goals in him. He's still young and still learning so just let him be and see what happens. Not everyone is the great Ronaldo of the 90's who was terrorising teams at 18/19yrs old. That player will never be seen again. Allow him to develop cos Klopp ain't getting rid no matter how much people cry about it.

Harry, Studge can't play 2 games in a row without breaking a nail and can't do all the work that Firmino does so how will he have benched them exactly? Didn't think so.

01 May 2017 23:41:25
Would just like to give a special mention to a certain Adam Lallana, I thought he was absolutely superb today (poor control for his chance aside) . I don't think we realised how much we've missed his linkup play and composure in tight situations since his injury and he will be a massive boost for us in the coming weeks.

02 May 2017 00:26:19
I really enjoyed the 2nd half of the game. Agreed with you HX, Lallana played well today despite the miss. I thought Origi had quite a bad game. And I was so glad to see Sturridge back.

02 May 2017 00:31:42
Yeah I enjoyed it most of it too, the last 20 minutes were a little unnecessarily tense though! Origi has been out of sorts for a few weeks now and you'd have to hope Sturridge will start against Southampton.

02 May 2017 01:58:02
I am kinda understanding now why Klopp is looking at another striker. Sturridge will leave, Ings will not be back to his best at least until season after next, and Origi goes through long spells of poor form. Going into a UCL season with Firmino as your only quality option up front is a recipe for disaster.

02 May 2017 04:32:55
firmino has no understanding with any other player but countinho which would be a worry should little phil leave.

02 May 2017 08:10:32
Origi didn't have the best game BUT worked hard for the team, held the ball well and occupied their CB's very well as remember, he was going against three of them. Can always improve, tho.

02 May 2017 09:18:11
Kenny I disagree mate. I think Firmino has a great understanding with Lallana and even more so with Mane. That's one of the reasons we're so much better with Mane in the team, not just for his pace and directness but the speed with which the attacking trio of Couts, Firmino and Mane read and react to each others game. The big issue for me is atm he's stuck out right with nobody to play off because Clyne is a rabbit on a greyhound track, just racing round doing nothing, Origi just has no clue, his decision making is terrible so therefore he's stuck out there on his own.

02 May 2017 09:35:09
There lies the issue with Origi or our style of play. He need to make those runs behind the CB's something Firmino does when he plays up top.

02 May 2017 17:28:03
Harry, I thought Firmino was not good enough and would be on the bench had Studge not gotten injured and that he was an attacking midfielder playing the CF role? What changed suddenly for you?