Liverpool Banter Archive September 28 2016

28 Sep 2016 21:14:44
Watching the city game and although their keeper is good with the ball there is a mistake in him especially if people press him. Be interesting to see how he does against our frontline. But if Celtic get a result out of this, think other teams in the premier league will fancy having a go at them,

28 Sep 2016 21:40:07
If we had played Celtic we would of ripped them apart, city can be scored against and what do we do best?

29 Sep 2016 05:25:35
We need to remember though that we are prone to conceding as well.

29 Sep 2016 06:55:36
Why even worry about city, its swansea next, decent team, even as fans we can't be complacent.

29 Sep 2016 16:36:46
Stupid conversation about city, just do what we do. They have always started brightly. The league won't come down to us and them. Worry about them when we play them.

29 Sep 2016 16:53:23
Our worry should be Swansea and that should be our biggest game of the season right now.

29 Sep 2016 17:24:29
Not worried about anyone, we'll stuff Swansea and City.

28 Sep 2016 20:51:17
Does anyone see any similarities between B. Clough and J. Klopp? I was watching the documentary Do you believe in Miracles and I thought that their way of thinking about football is very similar.

28 Sep 2016 21:27:07
Please don't ever compare Klopp to that vile man again. Have you not read his comments regarding Hillsborough? The bloke makes Allardyce look like a decent man.

29 Sep 2016 09:41:45
you cannot compare the two! what he said and the way he acted was vile!

29 Sep 2016 10:15:46
Clough was a pig of a man!

29 Sep 2016 18:36:45
Great manager.
An alcoholic and an egotistical, insensitive bigot with very few redeeming features.

28 Sep 2016 19:33:32
Hello house, I read a lot of articles about players not settling down in a country or club, is this in terms of the style of the club and for country is it the language or weather?

28 Sep 2016 19:50:21
Definitely the bipolar weather.

28 Sep 2016 19:52:34
Although it could also be the other languages we have here such as Scouse, Mancunian, Geordie, slang to name a few. Very difficult to learn, speak and understand for newcomers.

29 Sep 2016 23:06:32
Some people adapt better to change than others. Just look at your workmates when the boss announces they are going to change something that has been done a certain way for years. Some will shrug it off and others will spit the dummy.
Chuck in the fact that they are often changing address, countries, language, cultural differences, different food, people driving on the "wrong" side of the road, each club has its own culture, they might not know anyone (making friends can be harder for some than others) and it makes sense that players can struggle when they first start at a new club. And then if they have a family this will also apply to them. So the player might like the club but if his partner of kids dont.

28 Sep 2016 18:22:01
Looks like sakhos outburst has worked he's starting tonight for the u23s.

28 Sep 2016 20:36:28
I know he had his outburst but there's no point leaving him play no football, better he atleast gets game time for under 23s even if he's played his last game for the seniors.

28 Sep 2016 22:09:35
it might be a case of putting him in the frame for a move in the next transfer window, best move for everyone .

28 Sep 2016 22:28:22
Can we not comment on sakho because no one know the true story.

29 Sep 2016 09:12:35
On that basis RR, the topics will decrease dramatically on here.

29 Sep 2016 10:36:13
Shop window job.

29 Sep 2016 14:25:29
Maybe they have seen that we need a cb when Lovren and Matip is not available, and surerly Sakho is way above Klavan, Lucas and Gomez.

28 Sep 2016 14:27:09
Would like to hear from Eds and fellow reds on wijnaldum. I still think He is the weakest link in our midfield and I am not sure what he offers to the team. If anything he has taken the place of a very good Grujic and future monster Can. Wijnaldum is another Joe Allen with a bit more physical strength in him. He is not someone who will dictate the game from deep.
I am not slating a player who has been a part of the winning team but I fail to understand his role in the team.

Thanks.

28 Sep 2016 14:41:53
Sweet, I was of the same opinion of him and one of the biggest critics of his arrival as I to some extent, he was never needed. However, I have decided to wait and see what Klopp can do with him and currently, he`s not been bad. He`s being asked to play a different role here than he did at Newcastle hence, I will give him time before passing judgement. Also, we`re winning so that definitely helps.

28 Sep 2016 14:48:05
I was a bit sceptical when we signed him and even more so when I learned he would be playing in a more central role after playing wide left or supporting sticker anytime I had seen him before. I didn't know if he would have the work rate or desire to help out at the back and crowd out opposition in midfield but I have to say bare his first game or two I've been really impressed so far at how quickly he has adapted and bought into Klopp's style! I think he's still quite new to this role so I'm still expecting more from him in the future but at the minute he seems to do a lot of dirty work around the pitch that might go unnoticed and he seems to already be forming a good partnership with lallana and our attacking players! Still would like to see can and grucic get a few more games but as long as the team in winning with him playing a vital position he can't be doing too much wrong and others are just going to have to wait their chance to shine!

28 Sep 2016 14:49:08
Alot of people watch football, everyone enjoys it but not everyone understands what they are watching. You are one of those people.

So far he's offered more than mr pogba and we all know what he cost.

28 Sep 2016 15:15:34
pogbas been playing in a distructive rooney team until recently. don't know how you can compare as pogba is a signifiantly better player. wijnaldum is playing in a team playing well. he's currently a passenger in the team. take henderson out of midfield and results go against us a lot more would be looking at what wijnaldum offers which is very little. he's a decent player at best. pogbas a great midfielder at best.

28 Sep 2016 15:29:30
Comparing him to pogba makes no sense. Pogba is a world class pedigree who will dominate that midfield for the next 10 years all he needs is a some support in that midfield.
Wiji is not someone who will dominate the midfield and like Al said if you take out Henderson you would clearly see the issue with Wiji and Lallana in that midfield

Wijnaldum hasn't put a foot wrong which I agree but what's his role and contributions so far? Hardly seen him driving from deep nor he allows Hendo to push high.

Wiji is not a great passer of the ball, Nor he adds anything in defense. Does he score enough?
I have often felt he just occupies the space in that midfield with no meaningful contribution to the flow of the game.

He is neither a Renato Sanches nor a Khadiera, Not even a Pjanic. A Fabregas minus killer pass.

28 Sep 2016 15:41:09
Gino has been decent, puts himself about well and does a lot of great work off the ball. He will have to show more to stave off challenges from people like Can for his spot in the squad, but that being said there's not much to complain about from what he's shown so far and comments like 'passenger' are just woefully inaccurate and the sort of comments that people who only see the value in midfielders when they score worldies every few games. He needs to start doing a little more but he's fitted in well and he's made a strong start.

28 Sep 2016 15:48:08
Can't take the fact away at how well he's settled in and how good he's playing? Pogba's not has he? What has pogba done since coming to the league?

28 Sep 2016 15:51:00
Pogbas stats ain't all that even at juve. He's not a big game player and is overrated beond belief.

Gini at psv was a better player than pogba at juve.

So far in this season gini has offered more than pogba.

28 Sep 2016 15:59:21
Wijnaldum is someone I didn't think we needed particularly as I thought we should play a Can/ Hendo/ Coutinho midfield (or maybe Llalana), but I've been very impressed so far.

He's perhaps played within himself at first, which I like, but you can see him starting to gain confidence and influence game by game.

For me he's a Joe Allen but with more physicality in defence, and improved skill and directness in attack.

28 Sep 2016 16:12:22
How does anyone know what klopp has asked of gini anyway. He may be being asked to just sit in and keep play moving. No one knows other than him and klopp.

28 Sep 2016 16:25:35
I, like many others, was rather confused as to why we splashed the cash on him when I don't think he was needed. That being said he has played well since he arrived. People get to caught up on the idea that in order to play well in midfield you have to have goals or assists to your name. Well you don't. Klopp likes him, and he clearly works with our current system so with that in mind I am keeping my faith in him until he proves me wrong!

in wijnaldum we trust

Red Sandman.

28 Sep 2016 16:30:35
i get your point harry bt i don't think he is meant to dictate play from deep.

28 Sep 2016 18:20:27
surely its how they do in training and on the pitch if they start a game sure every player will get his chance season just started.

28 Sep 2016 18:52:47
I'm sorry but he does drive forward from deep and has been doing so more regularly in the last few games. He's also put his foot in when required. Constantly pressed and harried for possession and covered when Milner has bombed on. Got an assist. His passing has helped keep possession and move things forward. Plus the fact that lallana and hendo are both shining at the moment doesn't make him a passenger it means his play is helping get the best out of them. It's the team that matters. It's a winning team and he's part of it. I didn't understand signing him when we had can and grujic but he's surprised me and I think it looks like good business. And I don't understand how people are still criticising him?

28 Sep 2016 19:34:47
Always thought he'd do very well.
Too early to judge IMO.

28 Sep 2016 23:41:08
Gini has done well since coming in, looks solid and more likely to provide goals, assists than Allen. That's what it's all about for me, continual improvement. Whether he's the weakest player or not in a team that playing very well is irrelevant, and as it happens, I don't think he's put a foot wrong, and certainly deserves to keep his place above Can and Grujic for now.

29 Sep 2016 10:41:08
For now - I agree Westwood. But as Ron rightly points out, it's still very early to judge but certainly first impressions are impressive, under Klopp I believe he will only improve. Pogba who?

29 Sep 2016 20:23:48
To understand and appreciate what GW currently does you need to watch the game twice because of players we have in the team I. e the front three that are just electrifying it takes away what other players do which isn't bad, after watching a game live watch an overview of the game and watch what people like GW do, hendo and lallana how they win the ball back and restart play, I think they deserve to keep Can and Grujic out of the team at the minute.

28 Sep 2016 11:54:56
So Ed001, it seems that Trent A-A is "studying the leagues best right back" in Clyne. How does that make you feel? That going to make you a fan of Clyne's? :)

{Ed001's Note - hahaha, it more worries me that he might actually believe that.....}

28 Sep 2016 13:04:25
To be honest a lot of people call Clyne the best in league or at least between him and walker.

28 Sep 2016 13:11:27
In fairness would he not be in the top 3 alongside Walker and Bellerin?

28 Sep 2016 13:41:08
Who do you rate as the best 3 right backs in the league Ed?

{Ed001's Note - erm Bellerin, Coleman on his day and probably the lad who replaced Clyne at Saints, whose name escapes me right now. Oh shoot I forgot about Johnson! How could I forget him? ;-)

28 Sep 2016 14:27:06
Cedric Soares Ed? BBC just did a nice article on how Claude Puel uses his full backs to great effect. Nice little read

Red Sandman.

{Ed001's Note - I honestly can't remember his name mate.}

28 Sep 2016 14:47:05
Clyne is not the best RB in the PL and neither is Walker. I think Clyne is actually better than Walker by a mile, which tells you how awful Walker actually is. Cedric is a very good RB tho and was outstanding along with Guerrero at LB, for Portugal at the Euros.

28 Sep 2016 15:43:14
Even Spurs fans admit that Walker is deeply average but is lucky enough to have pace to help him recover from his many errors and poor positioning. Bellerin is the best RB in the league by a country mile.

28 Sep 2016 20:03:39
Wouldn't have Clyne in my top 8 to be honest.

Bellerin, Azpilicueta, Sagna, Soares and Coleman are all better players. And on recent form Walker, Valencia and Simpson are all playing better as well. Let's be honest, Jon Flanagan can't get into Burnleys team and he is arguably as good as Clyne!

Clyne has profited massively from hype in my opinion. Run of the mill player who does an okay job, and whose mistakes cost a lot of goals without being glaringly obvious or high profile. I challenge anyone to find a full back who gives aways as many silly free kicks around the area (and no, you can't use Moreno) . I honestly do not know how Nathaniel gets away with so many mistakes. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was Moreno making the same errors, he'd have been lynched by now. Because I genuinely believe Clyne is just as error prone, worse on the ball, and he is older with less time to improve!

Never rated Clyne before we signed him and he hasn't exactly proven me wrong. Personally, I hope Joe Gomez gets the nod if he comes back strong. All centre backs usually start off at full back. It is a good learning curve for them. Gomez played right back for Charlton and left back under Rodgers. Assuming his injury hasn't had any lasting effects, he was a far superior player to all of our full backs before his injury.

29 Sep 2016 01:43:29
Its his athleticism that fools people Adam. To the untrained eye of a fan all they see is him bombing up and down the right hand side and assume he is excellent. What they don't see is his poor first touch and passing, along with his poor positioning. Not the long term option at right back I hope.

29 Sep 2016 13:02:26
Say what you like about clyne but don't tell me Danny Simpson is better. By far one of the worst fullbacks I've ever seen. How Leicester won the title with him is honestly far beyond me.

28 Sep 2016 10:38:48
Allardyce by letter of the law hasn't done anything wrong. Not condoning his actions though as a professional manager whose feet are yet under the table should know better to speak about such sensitive matters to strangers. I do however believe such discussions and behaviours occur frequently in football and you'd be naïve to think this is some kind of one off. I know a very well informed bloke who worked under Frank Arnesen for many years who mentioned back in 2013 that a can of worms will be opened one day and several managers will be publicly slayed by the media. I know another manager who's name will surely come out in the media soon but ethically I don't want to be a bearer of someone else's stupidity.

One thing is for sure, the governing bodies need to pull their fingers out their ass and rewrite the laws over third part ownership. The crying shame is, that isn't an overnight strategy and in likeliness will probably never happen.

28 Sep 2016 10:50:02
He gave advice and support to people who wanted to sneak third party ownership around the system. How, by the letter of the law, is that not doing anything wrong? It's a bit like saying someone who explained the layout of a bank to known bank robbers wasn't part of the robbery.

28 Sep 2016 11:18:55
Because what he was saying was legal ways of going around the system. He was an idiot sure but he didn't break any laws.

28 Sep 2016 11:29:38
agree with hjikle on this one, he was telling people he barely knew how to get around the rules. ( That his employers put in place) . Not only that the FA have been banging on about FIFA ethics for years, totally loses all their integrity if they can't keep their own back yard clean. it was calculated move- Sam has been in football for decades he knows right from wrong. just because rules aren't stated in contracts there is a point where common sense applies as it would in any other job.

28 Sep 2016 12:21:50
Would he of payed tax on any backhanders he would of got? If not then that in lay mans terms iis that not conspiracy to defraud?

28 Sep 2016 12:55:28
It's the equivalent of tax dodgers, technically it's not illegal, it's just exploiting loop holes, morally it's very wrong though.

28 Sep 2016 13:06:08
Well while it may not be illegal it is certainly gross misconduct. You can't go around telling people your employers weaknesses, especially those you know what to exploit them. Not criminal but certainly gross misconduct.

28 Sep 2016 13:23:29
you were right on big sam, he is an idiot, a greedy idiot, who is on a huge salary, but wanted more . I just love football karma .

28 Sep 2016 13:31:47
I think it's a blessing in disguise for the FA and The English National team as I personally think they picked the wrong man for the job in Sam Allerdyce and it wouldn't have taken long for them to realise that. He plays 'up and at em' football, loves a long ball to the big man and is behind the times in terms of tactics etc. I bet Andy Carroll is gutted he's no longer in charge! I feel he only had the job as he'd waited patiently for it and made his feelings public. Was he an improvement on Roy? I honestly don't think so! I think England need someone with fresh ideas or who gets their teams playing good football, someone who makes their teams hard to beat but attractive with the ball. I have no names to offer myself but does anyone have any?

28 Sep 2016 14:37:19
Have I missed something? Has he been arrested?

Who's talking about breaking the law? He's guilty of gross misconduct and his employment has been rightly terminated.

28 Sep 2016 14:57:48
He may not have broken any laws but he was severely careless and unprofessional which in itself, is wrong and can be considered a sackable offence mainly due to the position he currently holds. He was revealing how to get around the system of third-party ownership hence, he might as well have broken the law. If some think he shouldn`t be held accountable for this then, they are fooling themselves.

28 Sep 2016 16:07:09
It's a classic question of the letter of the law vs. The spirit of the law - and I for one don't want an English manager that doesn't have enough ethics to tell the difference.

28 Sep 2016 18:03:00
Spot on, Zimbo. You are England manager and you are supposed to conduct yourself in a professional and ethical manner as the bar is very high for you in these situations. To try to justify him doing what he did by saying "he didn`t beak any laws or the laws were not clear/ should be changed" just illustrates the morally bankrupt society that we now live in.

29 Sep 2016 08:02:07
Not sure why anyone would support Allardyce on here, he's done nothing but show contempt for Liverpool for years, probably just so he can crawling up Fergie's backside!

{Ed002's Note - It is nothing to do with LFC.}

28 Sep 2016 08:25:33
Morning redmen,

The weeks seem a long time with us only playing at weekends!
Still, some of our loanees were in action to keep us entertained.

Ryan Kent played the full 90 and played his part in the equaliser as barnham snatched a 1-1 draw with villa.

Danny ward helped Huddersfield move back to the top of the championship with a 2-1 win against Rotherham.
Rotherhams goal was scored by a striker named Danny ward just to confuse people.

Wigan and bogdan picked up a much needed win as they beat wolves 2-1.

Jack Dunn came off the bench in the 65th minute and had the desired impact as he set up the equaliser in morecombes 2-2 draw with Barnet.

Ryan Fulton was kept busy as chesterfield drew 3-3 with Gillingham.

Lloyd jones was substituted at half time due to injury as Swindon lost 3-1 to Northampton.

Sam hart played for 75 minutes and helped port vale continue to climb the league 1 table as they beat millwall 3-1.

Markovic came on in the 70th minute as, sporting beat legia 2-0 in the champions league. They have 3 points from 2 matches.

And that's your lot.

28 Sep 2016 10:16:59
I'm sure we all really appreciate you keeping us updated Carra.

28 Sep 2016 10:30:07
Indeed we do. Thank you. And yea I agree the week seems to drag at the moment.

28 Sep 2016 14:59:43
Thanks, Carra.

28 Sep 2016 06:40:12
Hi Ed002.

As it is a slowish week on here. I was wondering if you could give us a breakdown of what the whole allardyce story really is and how you see it panning out over the next few weeks in regards to other managers, players and agents. I know you've told us before how transfers (legally) happen. How do these dodgy ones come about and do the players usually know when it happens? All very interesting stuff.

Thanks for any insight!

{Ed002's Note - I gave an update earlier and I have given some assurances that I wont name some names that may or may not get mentioned in the coming days. The sport in the UK is not really any worde than elsewhere and is really much better than many countries. Some little things sneak through and there are gambling issues of old that have been dealt with through the rules of gambling - a throw in within 10 seconds of the start made a lot of players money back in the day - harmless but not an option. Never prosecuted but one club abused it. Whilst it is quiet right now I can let on that something truly awesome will be happening on this site over the next couple of months - so keep checking in.}

28 Sep 2016 07:03:04
Ed002. You're a saint. Thank you for keeping us in the loop.

Red Sandman.

28 Sep 2016 07:32:20
Ed002, i believe every year (or atleast since i started following the site back when it was just football-rumours, truly awesome things happen on this site, coming from you and Ed001.

Anyway will be checking in for that!

{Ed002's Note - Give me a few weeks - I am travelling thru the coming months but some neat things are going to happen.}

28 Sep 2016 10:11:29
Regarding Liverpool Ed?

{Ed002's Note - Regarding lots of clubs.}

28 Sep 2016 10:31:50
Got me excited now ed2.

28 Sep 2016 12:57:23
You're such a tease Ed. Love it.

28 Sep 2016 17:04:46
Liverpool related Ed?

{Ed002's Note - Related to lots of clubs.}

27 Sep 2016 20:50:18
I see the Telegraph are reporting that several other high profile managers have been involved with all this corruption. Any idea if Liverpool have been stupid enough to involve themselves with this Ed002? Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - There is more to come in respect of Allardyce, and there is more to come in respect of similar discussions with three other managers (one of which declined to get involved and one of which is very high profile). There might be some accusations about bribes being taken to facilitate transfers but there are potential legal issues as it is based on hearsay that they would need to substantiate before naming names. Gambling by players will come up again and old unreported accusations (which were absolutely true) may impact an out of work manager and a serving member of the games administration. Much of what is to come has been around for some time (the start of the year).}

28 Sep 2016 01:09:32
Ed002, I'm very glad that you have brought the following issues up. I've wanted mention them on here before but didn't know if would have been an issue.

I've also heard things regarding blood doping with Premier League players. Do you know/ can you discuss if this practice goes on and if so elaborate if any of it will come to light?

The person who tells me these rumours (I have to call them that at this time) has mentioned to me more than once of one particular player that he highly suspects was/ is blood doping. I even I have to say, I have noticed the change in the players form/ performance. I have no proof, but I have to say it wouldn't surprise me.

{Ed002's Note - You need to Google Bonar (I don't recall his forename) and Rob Brinded who made allegations that blood enhancement was rife in 10 or 15 years ago - but later retracted his claims. It is common in other sports but not in soccer - but there have been accusations held up in Spain and some very serious accusations in Germany dating back 25 years or so invoving Schalke. There has been an ongoing issue (wrapped up in legal disputes) concerning Barcelona. So not a real issue.}

28 Sep 2016 02:02:37
Thank you for all that info Ed002, I shall research it all!

Just to ask. Is that Dr Bonar? Also, do you think the integrity of a lot of major sports are in jeopardy? Is there just too much money involved nowadays and that will just keep the wheels turning no matter what so to speak?

{Ed002's Note - Yes, the unfortunately named Dr Bonar. I appreciate you wont be allowed to Google him from work. I think the sport is far from clean but far more clean on drug abuse than most others.}

28 Sep 2016 14:23:29
Just heard that the Telegraph is saying that 8 premier league managers took bungs during the last transfer window.