Liverpool Banter Archive February 28 2017

 

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28 Feb 2017
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Believable3 Unbelievable2

28 Feb 2017 21:57:17
The truth hurts.


01 Mar 2017 03:13:41
Truth that is shrouded in deception. Moyes was managing the reigning champions. Klopp took over the team that came 6th.


01 Mar 2017 04:07:24
Thanks Robin. Never thought I should look at it that way. For a few hours, because of just one statistic number, I started to question whether some fans that already started questioning Klopp as the manager, maybe have a point.


01 Mar 2017 04:19:57
I'm not against the idea of criticising Klopp, but statistics like these are absolutely useless and not constructive. You'd think some fans would be able to immediately remind themselves that Moyes took over the team that ran away with the EPL weeks before the season ended. Unlike Ranieri, Moyes deserved to be sacked because his methods were just not working, the players weren't buying into his subtle mid-table mentality.


{Ed001's Note - it is called context Robin, you have provided some, without which those numbers are just meaningless numbers. There is more to it, I mean it hasn't taken into account the amount of times either manager has put out a reserve side in a game because they are saving the better players for another competition.

There are other things, such as when they took over, Klopp took over a struggling team midseason, a team low on confidence and really struggling. When Moyes took over, they were reigning champions and high on confidence with a preseason to work with the players and get them going. So Moyes had time to work with the players before games came along, Klopp didn't.}

01 Mar 2017 05:04:15
Exactly ed, my explanation was only scratching the surface.

But do you agree with my opinion on Moyes' sacking? I just feel like that from the start the players never really warmed to him. I live in Sydney, and in 2013 they came down under for a pre-season tour, and one day they trained at a small stadium only 5 minutes up the road from me (it was f***ing exciting even as a Liverpool fan) . When I was watching them train, I didn't really notice any strong rapport between them and Moysey.


{Ed001's Note - the players never wanted Moyes and it was a similar situation to this season with Leicester, where they made sure he was not going to succeed. They saw him as petty and out of touch with modern football. They were right, he had a good set up at Everton, which enabled him to continue to get results long after his time was past, but he was found out when he has to try and build a new set up.}

01 Mar 2017 05:43:19
There's still a big difference between United '13 and Leicester. Leicester made sure Ranieri was not going to succeed because they couldn't be bothered since in their own mind they had nothing more to prove. This is in stark contrast to United, who had more to prove than ever after Fergie's retirement. I think the players were hungry to win again, but were very confused by Moyes, and this affected their performances. Moyes' tactics and etc were a legitimate excuse, but I feel it's a very weak and convenient excuse for Leicester players.


28 Feb 2017 17:54:52
Come on guys let's stick with it, I know the instant gut reaction to a performance/ result (run) like yesterday is a mix of disappointment anger, then we get onto the blame game blah blah. I read things like that Klopp has no plan b, that we should of signed x y and z in January, we've known our defensive frailties for years etc. Would like give a different view on this. First of all no plan b, Klopp has a football philosophy which is high tempo pressure and possession based game, it's a high risk big rewards kind of approach, does he doubt his beliefs and change to a defensive passive 4231 because we play against Vardy and Leicester? Last night showed me that the top quality isn't in the squad to play this system/ approach to a consistent level YET! Lucas was exposed playing a high defensive line against a pacey forward with a point to prove. Do we sit deep to protect him? Lucas was superb against the best striker in the league two weeks previous but then Kane isn't so quick. If Klopp doubt's his style, do the players then begin to doubt him? Well we should of brought in a quality centre back in January. Who? Was the quality available then at a sensible price? Who will still be at the club in five years time? No. Not forgetting that at the beginning of January we still had about 8 centre backs on the books. Can't just get all the jigsaw pieces in one transfer window, keeping the players they replace in a bloated highly paid squad. Klopp is a trust manager, he'll put his trust in a group of players for a whole season, not giving up on them when things get difficult. But it's a two way thing the players have to trust in him and his methods. Come the summer it'll take a different look with new players added and others moved on and again he'll back that group for the season. We're better positioned than last season, we've only finished in the top 4 once in 7 years, progress is being made, maybe not as quickly as we'd all like but I genuinely believe it's going to get better and better with a little patience and trust from us.

Believable5 Unbelievable5

28 Feb 2017 18:51:17
Caister, I agree with your post globally and it would be pointless to throw the baby out with the bath water. however, I must say that this squad has some gaping holes in it.

We have no CB as cool and competent to play alongside Matip who is very good. Lovren is injured and Klavan and Lucas would have been ripe for the taking vs Vardy. Gomez? No thanks as the kid is not ready. Also, Hendo is injured and we might as well play w/ o a DM. Studge? Nowhere to be found. Regardless of all that, there is something worse going on that cannot be ignored. ATTITUDE. LC to my surprise, came out flying and frankly, they needed to as they had a lot to prove.

As soon as the game began, I could see that we weren't able to match their intensity and drive. In other words, they did to us what we do to other teams. They played heavy intense football and we shrunk and couldn't take the medicine we dish out regularly. Our poor attitude towards playing lesser teams is what will destroy our season, I'm afraid.

How can you explain that our 5 losses this season have been vs teams in the bottom half? While in the top 6 mini league, NOBODY even in our worst form, can beat us. That is my problem LC brought it and we didn't. You know who else agrees with this view? Klopp himself as he said the exact same thing. If we don't fix our pathetic mentality along with tweaks in our system, goodbye to top 4.


28 Feb 2017 19:20:14
To an extent I agree, but don't think it's a case of poor attitude, think we miss certain skill sets in the squad like balance on the left hand side, Milner and Coutinho make us narrow against teams like you mentioned who pack the middle of the pitch. A leader from centre back is also something we lack skills wise and an overall lack of pace. Think Klopp will address this in the summer, don't know who these players will be, but I bet they'll have these skills.


28 Feb 2017 20:19:13
Firstly Klopp played 4-2-3-1 at Dortmund with two sitting midfielders for the majority of his time there, so it is his preferred formation. He changed to 4-3-3 to suit the players he had and the players he brought in. It is high risk high reward, most of us know this but this will not take us anywhere for the long term. We cannot be good in attack and terrible through the middle and at the back and expect to achieve our targets most seasons. We need a much more balanced apparoch in the premier league and it is up to the coaching staff to sort that out, that includes Klopp. A change of philosophy is perhaps the only thing that will stop bad runs like this, and it is certainly not the first time it has happened with a Klopp team, that shows it is more than the players. I also don't buy the excuse of a poor attitude against lesser teams, I believe that may be true in some cases but certainly not every time we have lost to lesser teams. Would you say it was a poor attitude from the hungry youngsters that lost against wolves and had poor performances against plymouth? I believe that excuse is as bad as the 'the players are exhausted' BS the half glass full fans tried to pull out. I believe there are problems in terms of quality in the team but when you look at personnel I don't think we should be as bad as we have been, not even close. We are currently under relegation form averaging under a point a game, that is ridiculous for a top 6 team. These players are better than the teams we have lost too which signals something more than a gaping whole here and there. I believe it is a combination of things, manager and players included. I think when you look at how bad our defence has been in seasons past and blamed the respective manager, we are just as bad this season, no improvements there. I think we took a different approach in midfield and instead of addressing it we changed it around and went more attacking rather than defensive and it worked for a bit, not so much now as we rely too heavily on Henderson which I said was a mistake since the summer. Up front we have improved, I know it doesn't look the case now but in terms of the players we have improved and the way they play at times is the best attacking play in the league. However this isn't good enough, after two seasons and being in the position we where in, if we do not get top 4, it isn't a step forward from last season. I recognise Klopp requires time and I will give him that, hence why even if we don't achieve top 4 I'll still say stick with him, but he must get it right in the summer and he has yet to prove he will, so all this 'believe' crap should be put on hold. So I am glad I have always reserved judgment on Klopp unlike some who have simply embarrassed themselves thinking he's our messiah.

We need to take a measured approach in the summer and spend decent money on areas that need fixing in the starting 11 not anything else. I am tired of getting quantity over quality. We must not just get rid of people that have had bad performances here and there, we just get rid of the dead wood. No knee jerk reactions and hopefully no egos involved like what happened with sahko which couldve been an option. Klopp, just like the players cannot escape criticism any longer. Let's see how things play out in the coming weeks and we will surely get more answers.


28 Feb 2017 22:02:43
Caister, you're not wrong on this point either. I guess we are both right as it is a combination of both. We'll see what happens. As for those asking for Klopp's sacking, don't hold your breathe.


28 Feb 2017 22:07:53
Not sure what's the progress being made other than fans pretending something has been made. Klopp has a poorer record than Brendan. We finished 7th last season currently sits on 5th and has every chance to finish to 7th again after buying Mane, Wijnaldum and many more!


01 Mar 2017 02:03:29
Facts are, klopp is bad at transfers, tactics and adapting. he plays a high press game even when teams park the bus or play long balls over the top or counter. What is there to press when a team is absorbing pressure or playing long balls. It's why we can beat spuds but can't beat Leicester. Why we lose against the bottom teams but are undefeated against the top. If he's unwilling to adapt we will never win anything. Klopp is inspirational and a good man manager, but he's bad at transfers, tactics and adapting. I love the guy but I just don't see it.


01 Mar 2017 18:25:22
That is a false comparison, Harry. What did BR actually achieve exactly? Were you one of those cheering for him when we were getting stoned 6-1 by Stoke? We already have 14 points more than we did at this stage last season as well as have scored goals for fun.

Is everything rosy? No. Is he perfect? No! If you got by the media into thinking we could win the PL with all the holes still needing to be filled in the squad and comparing us to a potent squad like Chelsea's, then that is your fault and yours alone. You kept bleating on here as to why Klopp can't coach like Mou, Poch or Conte yet, none of these coaches can beat him.

We know you don't like Klopp hence, you beat him up whenever we lose cos it's what you do. But stop comparing him with BR cos he won NOTHING here in three years and Klopp (who is 18 months on the job) played two finals in 8 months with BR's team, the very one he himself trashed when he needed to. BR will never be in his league even with 100 trophies in the pathetic Sunday league in Scotland.


01 Mar 2017 18:32:59
Klopp hasn't spent a tenth of the money Rodgers spent.
He at least came out and said they as a group are playing for their futures inclouding himself and that the performance was awful.
Bod gers would have came out with some spiel about great character etc.
It seems when we have a break be it via an international or as yesterday from being out of the cups that the team lose all momentum.
I think aside from king kenny that he is the right man for the job.
Let's judge him at the end of the season and compare then against the previous regimes.


28 Feb 2017 17:53:49
I actually can't believe what I'm reading on here today.

Klopp out?
Even Rodgers did better?
Bring in Tony Pulis?

We've had a bloody awful few months but over reaction is an understatement.

There was talk of Conte getting the chop after his start to Chelsea life, sticking by him appears to have worked out right?

We were in a mess before klopp joined thanks to a string on poor player recruitment and poor management. He lead us to 2 finals in his first year - sure he didn't win them but is that not reason for encouragement? We played 4 months of incredible football and we've tailed off massively. Is that frustrating? Of course it is! But does he not deserve longer than 2 months to turn that back around?

I know this will fall on deaf ears but some of the posts today are nothing short of shambolic. If you can't show more faith and support when things are going sh@t, then you have no right to celebrate in the good times.

Believable6 Unbelievable1

{Ed025's Note - these are not true fans saying that 87, if they are then you are better off without them as supporters like that will just drag the team down so take no notice mate..

28 Feb 2017 18:53:06
I stopped paying attention when such "fans" start comparing Klopp to BR and/ or want him gone. Such fans don't deserve my attention and neither do they deserve yours, 87red.


28 Feb 2017 23:11:47
There's 12 games left this season, we have to get in the champions league. We have to get behind them and save the analysis for the summer.


01 Mar 2017 02:22:01
These 12 games should show the mentality of the players. Id be thinking each one could be my last ever game for LFC and graft my bol**cks off and who gives a s**t if I get hurt. I don't see enough of our players with the same attitude.


28 Feb 2017 19:48:52
Totally agree Noah and 87 they aren't true fan's in anyway shape or form. Excellent post as well Ed025 fair play mate.


28 Feb 2017 18:03:21
Well gentlemen it's been thoroughly horrible lately. The way I see it is that it's not bad tactics or bad players in terms of ability. It's complacency and a lack of balls.

Clyne's the worst offender. He doesn't take men on, he doesn't put the ball into the box and he rarely attempts a 1-2 or tries to inject any pace or urgency into his play. Just a nice safe infield pass every time. I've completed my pass lads, it's on someone else if the move breaks down now.

He had much more about him when he arrived than that. Maybe spending a few games on the bench looking at Alexander-Arnold play would encourage him to try a bit harder. Wijnaldum isn't far behind, either.

For him to show how good he can be against Spurs and then turn in that non-performance against Leicester is absolutely shocking. And that sort of attitude is permeating across the squad. There's maybe 5 senior players who can be depended on to give 100% every time no matter who we're playing and where.

And to compound matters, our senior players in terms of the captaincy, Henderson, Milner and Lucas, don't seem to provide the right leadership for a team full of fair-weather players. They're honest blokes who give everything themselves, but they're too nice.

If you're the captain, or vice-captain, and you're playing with a few guys who are liable to phone it in when they're not playing Chelsea or Arsenal, then you need to get angry once in a while when they slack off. But no one on our team does, ever. When we concede a joke of a goal, there is no reaction.

Could you imagine how angry Carragher would've gotten if we'd conceded a goal like our first against Hull with him the team? He'd have probably killed someone. Likewise Reina, he used to lose his mind when we conceded. But Migs and co? Nah. Shrug their shoulders and look at the ground. Hide.

Likewise if Henderson has to play 5 square balls in a row because there's no movement in front of him, there is no reaction. He should start telling players in front of him to move around more. Telling should become fierce gesturing if the point isn't made.

Our key recruitment in the summer is not going to be players with specific skill sets like "another commanding center back and a left winger who can do x, y and z", it's players with the right mentality.

Players who absolutely cannot stand losing. Players who will get annoyed when someone beside them isn't giving a toss because it's 'only Hull'. If we don't get a couple of more players like that - and a couple will be enough because they'll keep the others on their toes - it won't matter who else we sign.

Believable5 Unbelievable1

28 Feb 2017 18:47:10
Post of the day that.


28 Feb 2017 19:23:10
Couldn't agree more about Clyne. He has zero accountability and takes no risks at all. He played one decent ball in last night and I can only remember one more all season (to Lallana, who scored. Can't remember who against, sorry?! )
There was a great ball played to him by Matip, down the right wing and while he was running onto it, you could see his first instinct was going to be cut back inside and go square.
This is the fundamental problem with him; play safe and as you said, let someone else take the mantle on.
This cannot work in a Klopp team, where the full backs are hugely important.
Don't like slagging our players, but there has been no development from him since he arrived and it needs to be said.
Trent definitely deserves his chance now.


28 Feb 2017 19:53:03
Excellent post and 100% on the money.


28 Feb 2017 21:16:10
Great post. The problem Henderson has is that the player ahead of him most guilty of not moving is Lallana (his best mate) .

Henderson gives anybody else a rollicking if they aren't shifting, but he seems to give Lallana a free pass to not putting it in against the lesser teams or when we are in a scrappy battle.

It is probably the main reason why Lallana is the most guilty of going missing.

Firmino and Mane even when they are having a bad day still try to make things happen. Coutinho is a bit of a fair weather player as well though.

I know people might scoff at this, but I actually think we should've recalled Flanagan and put him slap bang in the middle of the park against lesser teams. He played holding midfield in the academy. You think he would let anybody slack off? No chance.

We shipped him out because he doesn't epitomise the modern wing back, but he is exactly the sort of character our team is lacking. All the ability in the world counts for nothing if you can't be bothered. Rodgers and Klopp both seem to like nice guys who get on with the game and won't look their team mates or even the manager in the face and say "step up".

We do actually have another player who will give stick out on our books. But he just put in MOTM performance for Crystal Palace at the heart of their defence!

Hendo will dish it out, but his room mate Lallana is getting a free ride and as the main man to link midfield to attack, that really is not helping and is a massive reason why we look so laboured against lesser opposition.

Cannot believe I am saying this after all the stick Rodgers got, but Klopp needs to sign players with character!


28 Feb 2017 21:17:16
I agree with your bit about passion and will to fight and win and we DO need players with grit and determination. Regardless of how good your players are, if you are mentally soft and don't have the belly for a fight EVERY game you play, you will struggle. We seem to have that midtable mentality since Jan of only turning up for the big games and not bothering vs the lesser teams.

This is what will kill our top 4 hopes. LC came out flying an you could see that we would struggle cos we simply couldn't match their intensity. We were second to every ball, every challenge and as soon as they got the goal, it was lights out. That is what needs to change the most, regardless of what ever other changes are needed.


28 Feb 2017 22:35:34
MK, I haven't seen Henderson dish it out against any player. It's not just Lallana who gets a free pass from him. The only person who ever seems to be on the receiving end of a few harsh words from Hendo is the referee, which is not exactly what I think he should be doing.

The only person who does any dishing out to players is Klopp on the touchline. And this is my big worry. Maybe he's calmer in the dressing room when he has a bit of thinking time and isn't just reacting to what's happening on the pitch, but if Klopp and the coaching staff are doing all the shouting to express their dis-satisfaction, there's a risk that it just becomes noise and stops having any impact on the players.

Regarding Coutinho, Firmino and Mane, I find it a little harder to assess them because they're obviously not going to see a whole lot of the ball if the midfield and fullbacks are phoning it in. Certainly Coutinho hasn't looked himself since coming back from injury though. Whether that's co-incidental because the team's not been playing well, or he's struggling to get completely match sharp post-injury.

Btw, watch us field substantially the same team against Arsenal on Saturday and beat them because everyone actually bothers to turn up.


28 Feb 2017 23:18:48
I vividly remember Clynes assist to Llana it shocked me so much, he miss-controlled it, the ball got away from him and he had to run onto it and hit it first/ second time.
If you don't buy a ticket you'll never win the jackpot, Clyne won't back himself to beat anyone, TAA will at least role the dice, but we've got to accept we'll lose a few times.


01 Mar 2017 18:30:27
There the same players who set the place alight earlier on this season.

It's down to confidence and and minimising the mistakes that reduce the confidence.

It's been debated here ad nauseum who the main culprits are.

One or 2 changes come summer and we'll be a tighter unit but Klopp also has to learn to adapt the team during a game to win ugly against lower league teams. even by playing a centre half up front and launching the ball bypassing the 2 banks of 4
Then after getting a goal to close down a game
Remember Mourinio did it against us by bringing on Fillans and lofting high balls
That's the difference The one way or another will nick the Ugly win while we get caught on the counter and lose.


28 Feb 2017 17:33:48
Did carragher do an interview with lukaku for sky wearing an Everton kit? Just caught glimpse on tv before it went away.

Believable0 Unbelievable1

{Ed025's Note - he certainly did wyllie, once you are touched by everton its something you cant escape mate.. we are the "peoples club" after all mate.. :)

28 Feb 2017 18:18:57
Soon to be "were" Ed025. As soon as you build that new Reebok style stadium, take out those middle tier seats ( for the "people" ) and replace them with cooperate hospitality suites you'll be selling your soul to the Devil. 😜

Selling souls, just like the "big five" did back in 1990. Getting into bed with Murdoch is the worst decision football ever made imo.


{Ed025's Note - hopefully that wont happen nicky, i would sooner stay at rickety old goodison if that were the case. i consider us a proper club and think we will do things right mate..

28 Feb 2017 21:18:01
Just Wow!


01 Mar 2017 18:34:03
Probably tried to sign him

Carra turned up for his Liverpool trial wearing get an Everton top.

It's in his autobiography which is a great read for any football fan.


28 Feb 2017 16:30:30
Unsure why Matip gets little or no criticism. He has had a few impressive performances but he was nowhere last night and made to look ordinary against Southampton in the cup games. I was hoping he was the big dominating center back we needed - he certainly has the potential but he needs to start bullying center forwards and bossing games.

Last night for me was about desire - from the first tackle that Vardy put in on Mane showed that they were bang up for it and we had no answers. It clearly meant more to Leicester players to give a reaction and get out of the bottom three than it did to us to finish as high as possible. Which is really disappointing.

Lack of leadership on the pitch during the game, largely due to the absence of Hendo - but you always need more than one leader, surprisingly I thought Emre Can was the closet we had to someone willing to give it everything.

We are still more than capable of gaining the results we need to make to the Champions League positions - the quicker we realise that sometimes you have to get your foot in to earn the right to play the better.

Believable3 Unbelievable3

28 Feb 2017 16:59:33
At least he had a go at the end of the game his passing was wayward but so we're clyne runs and matips had knocks so he's rusty. He's got 5 foot 5 no pace Lucas as his partner clyne who's just a joke next to him and a left back who can only use his right foot. Oh and mugnolet behind. Only so much one guy can do.


28 Feb 2017 18:16:39
Even our best players have been hit by this downward spiral, its spread like a cancer throughout the entire club. For someone in his first year in england matip still looks more confident and up for it most of the time than the rest of the melts in our team who have been here longer.


28 Feb 2017 18:14:40
Coz He is the only half decent defender we have at the club. He has generally being good.


28 Feb 2017 19:26:51
I completely disagree about Matip's assessment on this forum.

Not sure if it has something to do with his injury, he isn't much better than Lovern. Just because he runs with the ball sometimes doesn't make him a good ball playing defender.

In fact he doesn't even have the nasty looks/ streak of a defender to be honest which kind of instills some sort of fear on opposition.

I was eagerly looking forward to see Matip play after seeing so much praise here and even by Ed's but he looks plain average at the moment.

Cheers.


28 Feb 2017 21:27:25
Would you prefer Skrtel, Toure or Coates then, Weller? matip has been very good for us and if the other players had as much desire as him, maybe we would have had a better outcome. I do agree with you that LC showed a lot more desire and drive than we could have ever mustered.

As soon as Vardy clattered into Mane, our players knew what they were in for and shrunk, it seemed. Stupidly enough, the bigger teams can't bully us as we call the shots when we play them hence, why they can't beat us regardless of where we play them.

This pathetic mentality of shrinking vs lesser teams is what will do us in cos guess what, we may beat Arsenal and even beat City BUT it is the other games that I fear for us the most.


28 Feb 2017 15:44:50
Hi Eds.
After January our performance level is gone down. We are beaten by bottom half teams. Is that because of Klopp intensive training. Some ex players mentioned it. What you think.

Believable3 Unbelievable3

{Ed001's Note - nope, that is just an excuse by ex players trying to defend fellow players poor attitude.}

28 Feb 2017 17:02:48
Ed its not attitude lad.

Its not fitness either.

Sorry to say but its the system.

Not plan be like ling balling it and changing our core priniciples but finding more than one way of playing that enables us to do what we do.

Like hiw we lookee bett3r when moreno and origi came on but that should of changed after 45 minutes.

Also differentiating between away games and home games. Gettint smart. Counter attacking and playing deeper etc. Adding or removing an extra cm for certain gamed. Playing 3 at the back to help lucas out. Making HALF TIME CHANGES (2-0 down and nothiny) . No subs before 80 minutes?

We new last night they would be pumped and did nothing to counter thay and its an arrogance from the person who picks the team. he should of set us up a lot more defensive. that's what we are missing.

Our way of playing wins probably 65/ 70% of games, because when were good were good but we need to find a a way to win the extra 15/ 20% need to start winning leagues and regular xhampionsleague qual.

Hes our manager and i don't eant that to change even in the slightest but he has to change his way of thinking throughout the season.


{Ed001's Note - if you say so.}

28 Feb 2017 17:10:38
Ed how come klopp doesn't play his old Dortmund formation with us? Two holding mids and a pressing cam. We seem to play one holding mid and two cans. Surely we would be a bit more solid?


{Ed002's Note - I really don't know Lerchy. He likes kopflose huhn style of play where young men run very quickly at the opposition.}

28 Feb 2017 18:18:20
Mane its attitude AND the system, sticking to the same system against every single team is just a reflection of the arrogance the players show when they step out onto the pitch. The players think they are too good to get beat, as does the manager.


28 Feb 2017 19:15:31
Yeah true anonymous the players do pick the team.

Say both our dads pitted us against eachother in a duel and my dad gave me a hammer and your dad gave you a spoon. Has he set you up properly for the task at hand? Should he take any of the blame if you lost?

The point is if the system we play gets defended really easily against the one your playing then 1/ how are you going to blame the players if they weren't fiven the right tools for job at hand and 2/ by your logic why do we need managers?

Tactics is the word out of all of that.

How much space was mane getting againt albrighton and fuchs. he qould of been better on the left. Firnino against huth and morgan wasnt working but that was obvious so get origi on to get in behind them, nit a lot of pace there. Those changes are they up to the llayer or the mabager?


28 Feb 2017 21:24:50
Supermane, maybe the reason why we looked better with Origi, Moreno and Woodburn was because all of a sudden there was 3 players on the pitch who cared? They had a point to prove unlike the rest of the team who seemed to think that their result vs Spurs gave them a free pass to not really showing up yesterday.

It would also explain why the only player who started the game who seemed to care was Emre Can. I'm not saying he was good by the way (he is not a holding midfielder) but he certainly put in 100%.

Rotation is tricky but sometimes it helps keep players hungry. Like Conte occassionally dropping Fabregas or William into the team and basically without any words saying "go on, prove you should start next week". Fabregas and Willian aren't even that good, but they turn it up a notch to try and stay in the team!


28 Feb 2017 21:45:03
Mane, it's more attitude and less the system. Regardless of what system you play, if you don't have the heart for a scrap then, you will get destroyed. Why do you think we are able to beat the teams in the top 7 when they have much better players than we do in most cases?

It's not all system, bro. It's the heart of a fighter that pulls us over the line every time. Check out the Spurs game. We are the ONLY team that made them look like a League One team cos we smoked them senseless without even breaking a sweat. During the first half of the season, we would fall behind and comeback swinging like we did vs Stoke, losing 1-0 and then eventually winning comfortably 4-1 in December.

Where did that never say die mentality go to? Only Klopp and his players can answer that cos right now, we don't have the desire to fight anymore EXCEPT when we play a big club. Even Klopp recognized this after the game yesterday. That pathetic mentality will do us in this season.


01 Mar 2017 03:17:31
I don't buy this 'system stuff'. Simply being 'out-systemised' by a relegation battler shouldn't be enough for them to beat you. It should only be enough to make the Liverpool players' life a little harder for them. If Liverpool players had enough fight and resolve, they'd be able to come away with results.


{Ed001's Note - exactly Robin.}

01 Mar 2017 08:12:38
Precisely robin, and they are being rewarded for not giving a she*p. I know we can't ship the whole lot out like championship manager but some of our players should not be anywhere near a top level team, hence why we are not top level.

But klopp also makes it easy for them to be complacent and not give a rubbish by picking them week in week out. Yeah we don't have the depth but i would prefer losing with some kids in the team knowing that the 11 on the pitch put up a fight instead of hiding because the opposition won't let them stroll to a win. Its not good enough just turning up when we play the top 5 so they can create a showreel for their next move.


01 Mar 2017 08:54:55
Right so on monday night we played a high line vrs vardy with lucas and matip as cbs.

Is that tactics or attitude the fact he was getting in time and time again or did lucas just not care and let him through? His runs soon stopped when we locked can in next to lucas. hmm?

They had drinkwater, ndidi, morgan and huth locked in a square in the middle cutting out all the space for lallana, cou and firmino to operate.

We had albrighton and fuchs doubling up on mane and taking away all his space to run into.

And the fact that they just kept playing long balls which completly negates the press, in fact im pretty sure its a system that's intended to couter pressing teams.

How are the players meant to perform when the oppositions setup is locking. us out.

Its the same when teams sit in on us. How can you press them when they don't want possesion? How are you meant to pass your way through when your trying to get through two banks of four? that's when a tactical switch needs to made and stick moreno and mane on the wings but as wide as they qill go which will hopefully break the lbs and rbs away from there line and start creating abit more space in the middle. But no when that happens there's no tactical switch the same system and style gets played and we try to pass our way through the middle of a brick wall.

You just don't want to lend any negativitiy on klopps door. he's brilliant for us and the team 70% but he needs to find the other ways to win. Same as the european final last year, bet your last pound mourinho at 1-0 up would of brought on another cm and just shut up shop and countered.

You have said moreno, woodburn and origi made us betyer because they care?

Not because origi and his pace in behind morgan and huth actually posed them problems. Moreno sticking on the byline at lw kept simpson occupied and therefore allowed more space in the middle for coutinho to operate in.

Its funny that we looked better after a tactical switch is all im saying.

You all go on about attitude. Did any of you see wijs celebration for his pass last week? How much lallana and firmino run for us? These lads don't have an attitude problem.

Playing lower end teams needs a switch is system and tactics.


01 Mar 2017 18:19:43
Super you keep banging on about tactics and dismissing attitude, so what about in game intelligence? Are you saying a professional footballer can't see that the opposition are playing the long ball and the back line should then reset 15 yards deeper to negate that? Or not press frantically if the opposition is sitting back and maybe let them have the ball and play on the counter.

So yes it boils down to the players taking the attitude of taking responsibility for what's happening and making adjustments as necessary during the game. Having leaders with the attitude to make a decision on the pitch and tell the back line to sit a little deeper. Its so easy to blame the manager all the time, look what our opposition did to their last manager for proof of that. Good teams have players that have the attitude that they are responsible for what happens on the pitch and execute depending on the circumstances at the time not the game plan given to them that is clearly not working.

Everything that happens in life is about attitude my friend, you think about it for a few minutes. Or will you take the attitude that im wrong and not bother? Do you see what i did there?


28 Feb 2017 15:27:24
Eds I'd u are about. has there been any rumours of unrest at Liverpool? Are the players still behind klopp and what he is trying to do?

I firmly believe in klopp and I just hope he makes the right signings in the summer. YNWA.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I am not aware of any concerns.}

28 Feb 2017 15:35:06
Cheers eds.


28 Feb 2017 14:48:25
Come on people. We are going through a bad patch right now but perspective is needed. Yesterday morning everyone on here was bleating about the disgusting sacking of Ranieri, and how he should've been given time. Fast forward 24 hours and now we want our own gaffer sacked.

Give the bloke a chance. Liverpool have been a mid table team since 2010. Simple as that. Klopp inherited an average side and we all started piling on unrealistic expectations after a couple of miraculous cup runs last season.

Realistically speaking, last seasons Europa league run was littered with lucky results or last gasp victories. I think we only just beat Augsburg 1-0 over two legs!

Klopp is working to the best we can realistically expect. Our squad is vastly over rated. We don't have a solid keeper though hopefully Karius or Ward can become that. We don't have a solid right back, but with any luck Arnold is on the rise. We have 1 above average centre back in Matip. We don't have a left back. We have about 20 midfielders, but still don't have a pair or trio which work well without Henderson as the glue. We have about 10 forwards but half of them are injury prone, a third of them don't fit the style of play, and we only have one player comfortable out wide.

I keep reading that the squad doesn't need an overhaul but to be honest, it really does. Our best players this season have been Matip, Henderson, Wijnaldum and Mane. 3 of those guys were signed by Klopp. He will get this team performing if we let him. You don't just jump from 6-9th to winning the league unless it is an absolute freak scenario. We don't have the players or the infrastructure to dine at the same table as Chelsea, City and United (who have won trophies for fun in the last 10 years) .

Ed002 laughs at the word transition, but if we are honest the club is in transition and has been for years. It has gone on for so long though with muppets making big decisions that we now find ourselves cut adrift. We can climb back to the top, but barring a fluke season like what Leicester had, we are a long way off a league title, and even further from sustainable success. We are about 2 years behind Spurs on a very similar journey back to the top.

Learn to live with the fact that we will lose games and go on long good or bad runs. Because it takes a long time to build something that is sustainable. I fully believe Klopp will be here for the next 5 years, but I would not be surprised if it takes him the remainder of his contract before he wins a league title, and by then he will probably be ready to pass his dynasty on to Pepjin Linders or maybe even Steven Gerrard (hinging on his success as a coach) .

Last night was pathetic and I am not defending the team, but it was also nothing we haven't seen regularly since 2010; arguably 1990. So "get over it" is the short version of this post!

Believable9 Unbelievable9

28 Feb 2017 15:02:57
Difference being, he led them to the premier league and they are still in the champions league, with a chance of going through, what has klopp actually achieved? Even Rodgers did a better job, and kenny won a cup,


28 Feb 2017 15:03:08
Yawn, MK on his horse again.

Klopp is a good manager, I like him, but he's got a LOT wrong recently. The burden lies with him alone, he did not strengthen where it was required and took the players away for a summer training camp. I am yet to be convinced in Gigi in the middle, ones thing for sure, him and Can do not work. Lucas was grossly outmatched.

Klopp has been for to slow to enact changes to alter game outcomes. which shows when he brings on''game changing subs on the 80th minute 2 goals down) for some reason he kept going with the highline that was exposed incredibly early on. I;ve monitored on here, not too many asking for him to be sacked TBH.

The club is not in transition, we needed 4 good signings, he got karius (not what we needed) ditched a LB, kept Lovren and got Gigi, the squad was NOT improved. This lies at his feet, as do the tactics.


28 Feb 2017 15:15:01
MK, I agree with most of your post, we will find it difficult to finish in the top six, tho, we have some home games to try and get some very important points .
But, Klopp is very much overated in my view, he has 3 transfer windows to sort out our leaky defence,
we have one of the worst goalies in the League, we have a back four, a right winger at left back, a slow short midfielder at centre back, a right back who would not get into most other sides in the League, we have so many nice midfielders with no bite, we have no striker who can give us 20 goals per season, we have a manager who has no plan B or C,
beaten by Burnley, Bouremouth, Swansea, Hull, Leicester, Wolves, and Southampton twice,
2017, 12 games, 6 Losses, 4 Draws and 2 Wins,
3 clean sheets, 11 goals for, 16 goals against,
a shambles,
so yes, we should finish about 6th or 7th, that's were we are, so, not sure were we go from here, but we won't have much money for the next transfer window, , unless we sell a couple of these so called star players, we need to do something,
but will Klopp be man enough to do it .


28 Feb 2017 16:57:15
And who would take over klopp? Pardew? Klopp can only do so much I blame the players. They put in no effort last night they're to blame. The main culprits being clyne and can, both really poor.


28 Feb 2017 17:26:52
Chilean I will ignore the personal attack because I really cannot be bothered with you getting yet another one of my posts deleted! Let's be civil in debate.

Where in this post have I said Klopp is not to blame? All I have said is he needs time to get it right, which is pretty obvious that I therefore think he is getting it wrong currently!

He has made a few clangers in the market; Karius, Caulker, Klavan and Grujic are clearly not first team upgrades. Karius and Grujic have time on their side but that is besides the point. We needed instant improvements. We have loads of potential. Is Grujic or Karius better than Brannagan or Ward? I think not. Wasted money.

Additionally, Klopp is massively reliant on Henderson; Another point I mentioned above. Without Hendo he cannot put together a functional midfield despite us having a plethora of options. Maybe his options are not suiting what he wants, but it is down to him to get the best from what he has. He isn't right now.

Additionally, his loyalty to Firmino, Lallana and Coutinho even when they are in dire form is costing us. Why not play a diamond with Origi and Mane up top? Things aren't working but he just perseveres with it for 2 months.

I am not saying he is absolved of any blame. I am simply pointing out the hipicrosy on here. Ranieri got sacked and we all blamed his players. Klopps team is not applying themselves against lesser opposition, yet we blame Klopp for that? Sorry, doesn't wash with me.

If we change managers again, it will just be another 7 years of transition. We picked Klopp, we were all happy with it, now stop whining and support him. Simple as that. There is no high horse here, it is just common sense mate!


28 Feb 2017 15:29:29
I can't disagree with Ed002 and his assessment of Klopp and his tactics and basically everything else he tells us. Why? Because he tells us BEFORE it happens then hey presto, he gets it right again. He told us about Klopp being ok but not a great coach, he told us about his style of play being "found out" in Germany and how it wasnt sustainable for a whole season and he is being proven right again. He is also right about other teams not needing TRANSITION, Adam and again he is right. Its a joke, the teams a joke and i am peed off with it all.


{Ed033's Note - Yes, no one is 100% perfect, but Ed002 is the closest currently alive entity on Earth to it.

28 Feb 2017 17:56:22
The club is in transition when ever we loose and on a ride when ever we win. The perspective eyes come when you loose a game and the insight and optimism when you win.
Along with the club the fans are also in transition. Some back in the 80's still referring to how Fergie took 8 years to win a cup and some in the 90's.


28 Feb 2017 18:50:11
So who do we replace him with then rover?


28 Feb 2017 21:17:18
so mk you basically went on to highlight just a lot of Klopps wrong decisions this year. I don't buy that Lallana has dipped. I know a few believe in what a certain some one says on him till they die.

Lallana hasn't changed his game, even in losses he still does the doney work the defensive work, he holds on to the ballbecause frankly there's no decent movement ahead of him.

It's a shame Klopp acted the way he did on tour with Sakho, yes sakho acted a little unprofessional, but a lot of the fall out for me lay at klopps feet too. If we had sakho this year instead of Lovren (hell even kolo) we'd be much better off.

I thinkt he blame being laid bare at some players is silly. Klopps gotten tactics VERY VERY wrong. highlines when deep ones were required, not altering formations, leaving subs coming on till too late. none of that's players fault. Sticking rigidly with the 433 that's getting exposed everytime hendo doesn't play. He had his chance to strengthen in the summer, He bought a flop for me in Gigi who's had 2 good games.

This isn't to say I think Klopp should be sacked, but this squad is very much his, he had the funds in the summer. he's had 2 winter windows. I haven't really seen a great many calling for his sacking though which is why i think your reaction is an overraction. We tend to get these 'philisophical' points from you without any real meaning. I said since December and got laughed off this board saying it was more than a 'bad run' which it clearly is.

People defending Ranieri for me are idiots. When the players won't play for you, you have to go, many of the pundits defending Ranieri, were scolding of Mourinho when Hazard et al downed tools and said he had to go, and they were no where near as bad as what leicester are. let's not forget, the Premiership is worth a lot more than champions league football and championship. The overreaction if it occurred was not in the criticism of Klopp, but the defense of Ranieri.


01 Mar 2017 18:29:55
Spot on, Chileanred per Ranieri. Finally, someone who wasn't shocked he got the chop. Ranieri coached the players, signed the players who have come in and done nothing, prepared the team for the season knowing full well that as champions, every team would be out to get them YET from the first game vs Hull where they were outplayed and outfought, he still couldn't figure it out till he was sacked. I always knew he would get the chop cos he faile to instill the players with discipline and the stomach to fight especially with Kante gone and Mahrez taking the whole season off cos he wasn't allowed to leave. He got sacked cos that's football and will always be football. Players win games and coaches lose them. You can't sack the players and you can't drop a coach for one game and recall him afterwards. CR is in the best position to know that as he's been in the game at the highest level at big clubs for 30 years.

People making it sound like the players betrayed him are having a laugh. If he's getting credit for the PL win, he should get the blame or the boot if he can't hack it anymore. That's it. The pundits target who they want based on bias.


28 Feb 2017 12:02:36
Question for Ed2. Enjoyed your analysis on Klopp. Sadly i agree with it. If we were to go out and get a new manager tommorow. who would you go after?

Believable2 Unbelievable7

{Ed002's Note - As I have explained before Liverpool missed an opportunity with Jorge Jesus and another with Julen Lopetegui.}

28 Feb 2017 14:22:06
have we reached that stage already? klopp out.


28 Feb 2017 14:25:04
Jorge Jesus would have been excellent. He plays brilliant attacking football and has a terrific track record in Portugal. But not a long term project.


28 Feb 2017 15:00:49
Sorry what?

Craig and Maths are you advocating the sacking of Klopp? He hasn't yet finished a full season at the club and you want him sacked?

Ed2 was asked a question and he answered it, I have no problems there, but for 2 fans to be discussing a sacking.

A terrible loss last night and a terrible run of form we have been on, no doubt. But pining of managers we could have had is not only ridiculous and a waste of time but also damaging.

Let's stick together. Fans, players and manager.


28 Feb 2017 16:49:31
If you can do it on a cold, wet night at belenenses, you can do it anywhere.


28 Feb 2017 16:51:48
Agree Puzzled.

So tired of this manager out mentality. Poor bugger has got to win league within two years despite the fact the last won was before the premier league existed. Despite the fact the previous manager has blew a ton of money on moneyball all gambles. Despite not having a Gerrard, Suarez, Sterling or even a unbroken Sturridge. Yes he has had 3 windows although two are mid season ones when no one is available bar misfits or gambles. Had to clear out loads of average deadwood to free up wages first. Meanwhile your rivals are throwing money around on average players inflating the market, yet we almost went bust. I keep advocating that money is the only way to compete, otherwise who do you bring on after 60mins, more average players that would not get a look in at our rivals. But we haven't spent anything like our closest competitors in last two seasons much compared to the 300m plus by our Manc rivals. Even Leicester spent more than us. Why? Our commercial model is solid now, ninth highest earners in World football. I don't know why our back 4 is made up of 2 free transfers, good business I suppose, like selling Torres, Sterling and Suarez, all good business. As regards this summer who knows, all the guys we showed interest in that werenany good generally chose not to join us for some reason, just ask Sanchez, Costa, Willian, Eriksen, Mykitarian although one can say we dodged a bullet with Depay. So depressed and so desperate that I am happy to buy our way to the league with oil money.


{Ed025's Note - you have to forget all this microwave success you are craving BC, its all about building a side which will take time, slagging the manager and owners at every opportunity does not help, its time for liverpool supporters to do just that.. support, else the golden goose that is klopp may decide that his time could be used more productively elsewhere mate..

28 Feb 2017 17:01:51
We are lucky to have him he's probably questioning why he took the job! We are a small average premier league side stop living in the past. Klopp could go to any top side in Europe and you want him gone? Pathetic. The spineless players are to blame.


28 Feb 2017 17:59:47
The manger will also be reviewed by the club hirearchy at the end of the season just like every club. I am not sure what are the minimum demands he need to full fill set by the club owners. He has nothing to show virtually ( No trophies and goood chance of missing out from Top 4 )

Like the Boss says, Players and managers are transient employees. They come and go.


28 Feb 2017 17:50:48
ED025. I love Klopp, read his autobiography and know and 100% understand it takes time. But when you read so many posts that are negative and niave it tends to rub off. As I get older and that distant memory of me standing on the kop remembering those glory times, I do crave a little bit of microwave success. Even though I live on the other side of the world typing at 3am in the morning about the club I support desperately, I've clothed the kids (who already get jibes from 9yo's), bought the merchandise and watched over priced preseason jollys. But if long standing fans like me are getting tired and jaded of this repetitive Liverpool nightmare then yes I do something's envy a little microwave success especially when so see what it has done to no marks like city and chelski.


{Ed025's Note - its not the liverpool way BC and thats without the fact that the reds are not that financially blessed, klopp will get it right im sure but he needs help from the board and the supporters mate, and if it does come to pass that liverpool win the title and a cup or two than wont that taste all the sweeter?..

28 Feb 2017 18:44:59
Cheers ED025. I will go to sleep on that sweet tasting thought.


28 Feb 2017 20:58:02
The question was a hypothetical in response to ed2 breakdown of klopp. I never once said we should get rid. he's a nice guy. But a great manager he is not. Not a tactical genius or a game reader. he's heavy metal football. I like him but generally feel a true winner (like mourinho (not mourinho but like mourinho) would have been a better option for us.


28 Feb 2017 22:00:10
Klopp may be having a rough time right now and he has taken ownership of that and needs our support, something BR knew absolutely nothing about as all of our failures was never his fault. Great manager, eh?

Klopp has only been here 18 months and cos he is struggling right now, they want him gone. BR was a 3.5 year failure YET many on here wanted him retained for the most pathetic of reasons. Well, I guess they were not humiliated enough after the 6-1 drubbing at Stoke in 2015, the worst away defeat for LFC since the war. I will NOT apologize for having a good memory and knowing how pathetically incompetent BR was, costing us the PL via his ego and arrogance.

His Trump-like, self-loathing and self-angrandizing comments in the media, all about. Klopp is a much better manager than BR ever hoped to be with the CV to prove it cos even I can win a trophy in the Celtic-owned SPL where even my mom can't screw that up. Having said that, NOBODY is getting evaluated in the summer except players and other staff. Klopp and his assistants will still be here this summer, he's not getting sacked so get over it.


28 Feb 2017 11:36:42
Eds Any Interest in ...

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - This is the Liverpool page.}

28 Feb 2017 13:07:39
Klopp is not a tactician by any stretch of the imagination. He said after the match he knew the team Leicester would put out. Yet he was outwitted by the Leicester bard (Shakespear) .

Believable6 Unbelievable5

28 Feb 2017 14:35:48
Klopp did a Poch. Played high line and got punished.


28 Feb 2017 11:11:46
We’re on the verge of having the most ridiculous season of two halves. After 19 games we were averaging 2.3 points per game, our defence was average conceding 1.1 goals a game but this was more than made up for by our stellar scoring record of 2.4 goals a game. After the City game we were out on our own in second and, although we were 6 points behind Chelsea that was more a reflection of Chelsea’s stellar season than any shortcomings we had. Then we just fell apart.
In 2017 we have played 7 league games winning just once. Our points per game has dropped to 0.9 (literally relegation form), our defence has imploded conceding 1.7 a game and this has been compounded by the goals drying up (we’re scored just 1.3 goals a game this year) . There are a few mitigating factors, Lovren’s injury and Mane’s African cup adventure are the obvious ones, but nothing that comes close to explaining such a dramatic loss of form.
Looking at these numbers it has occurred to me that there are big echoes of the 14-15 season right now. We tend to forget that we went through three very specific phases that season. We started badly and only managed 14 points in our first 12 games. We then went through a stunning run of 17 games where we racked up 40 points before imploding for the last 9 adding just 8 more points. For those who scoff at this comparison know that if we don’t win 2 out of our next 3 games we will fall below Rodgers points tally at the same point of that season.
Rodgers’ team imploded after teams figured out the weakness in his three man defence, Klopp’s team has imploded after teams have worked out how to nullify his high press. Rodgers never again managed to get the team playing well and it cost him his job. Klopp is not close to the sack but if he can’t find a way to improve the team’s form then he will go into next season under immense pressure. FSG backed Rodgers heavily in Summer 15 and received little for their investment, they may be hesitant to do the same again for Klopp if there’s no sign of improvement between now and May.
Make no mistake, for the first time Klopp’s future is not assured, he was supposed to be a big upgrade on Rodgers but, whilst performances have improved, results have not. The next three months are going to be a huge challenge for him, fix the problems and qualify for the CL and this blip will be forgotten, slip out of the top 6 and he will be clinging on for dear life.

Believable10 Unbelievable4

28 Feb 2017 12:38:38
We have 4 home games in the next 5. Vitality important that you guys that can make the games, channel all your frustrations into support for whoever wears the red shirt.
I am too far away to go but will get up in the middle of the night and will risk the wrath of the wife if I'm in another bad mood. So for the sake of my marital harmony, LIverpool, put that ball in the back of net, defend like your lives depended on it and give us red fans a weekend where we love watching the highlights, love staring at the league table hypothesising and can have a week off from posting on this banter page.


28 Feb 2017 14:32:53
The players know they won't win the league this season now so are not putting in the effort anymore.


28 Feb 2017 14:22:31
Klopp has had 3 windows already and had 2 CM's in that back 4 yesterday. Someone is at blame, not FSG.
The worst part is this will give a good go for the supporters at FSG. They will rip FSG into pieces if they don't spend heavily on the summer.


28 Feb 2017 14:40:51
Someone has to explain to me why Gomez is touted as the next Carra when he isn't getting ahead of Lucas who is certain to move in summer? I mean how dumb is that? Playing a sure certain departure and benching a future star who need games.

Does Klopp actually rate Gomez?


28 Feb 2017 15:35:28
The difference between Carra and Gomez is age. Its pretty rare for 19 year old to be a go to starter. Also, you are forgetting that Lucas has been much lauded in his makeshift CB role over his last few performances. He had a bad, bad night, as did a number of our players and our manager too.

I'm still gutted, but not prepared to throw the baby out with the bathwater.


{Ed025's Note - im afraid some of that bathwater does need throwing out zeddicus, its contaminating the clean water and making the cohesion of the side very muddy indeed mate..

28 Feb 2017 16:34:17
Would agree with the bathwater, 25, but I'd like to hang on to the baby (i. e. Klopp)!


{Ed025's Note - i still firmly believe klopp is the man zeddicus, but he will need time to sort out some of this under performing mess that are these players, i just hope hes given time or its back to square one mate..

28 Feb 2017 17:43:36
" i just hope he's given time or its back to square one mate"

Amen.


28 Feb 2017 17:55:52
Zeddicus

I agree your views on the age factor. But you do realize we don't send players on loan, nor we play them at Liverpool. Klopp is already famous for late subs which means there no minutes for these players. How are they ever going to show thier potential? A 30 year old Midfielder at the back ahead of a young 19 year old actual CB?

How is Davies starting regularly at Everton? 18 years ain't he? Established CM there.


28 Feb 2017 17:50:37
The only problem really is the fans expectations. They have been raised by a manager who has taken a decidedly average bunch and turned them into world beaters for half a season at least. Sadly the complacency that one gets from rewarding players for achieving absolutely nothing has become a problem on top of the lack or real depth in the squad as january proved.

Klopp has not helped himself by playing players out of position or out of form players instead of trusing in one or two youngsters who will have greater desire to prove themeselves. One such example is stewart who is the natural understudy to henderson who was injured. Or Taa for clyne who has been woeful for a month or two. But alas he is on a double edged sword, because if they come in and don't perform he still gets criticised but i would respect him more for making those hard decisions.

Ultimately its still just a game and no one has died so we just need a little perspective here. Klopp will need to shop in the leadership store in the summer if he really wants to win anything with this group though. You get it from hendo but i was not surprised by last nights result when i heard the news he was out. A couple of players with the strength of character to lift the heads of people around them when it gets a little bit tough for the poor wee dears lol.


28 Feb 2017 20:19:08
More importantly, Gomez has not long returned from an ACL injury, in case you've been under a rock.
Klopp is handling him perfectly, in order to sustain his long term career and he's called out for it? Absolute joke!
Also, when Milner was performing brilliantly and Lucas was lauded for his displays at CB, Klopp was hailed a genius for his foresight to change their positions.
Now he's "playing 2 midfielders out of position? " What, like he's done all season?
Swear to God, some of you have got shorter memories than Dory!


28 Feb 2017 11:10:14
Having slept on the poor result of last night, I've come to realize that things at the club since probably the end of November apart from a few games have been a real mess. The team and the manager have real problems, first of all the team as a whole is just not good enough to sustain a title challenge, the squad is not big enough also. Certain players aren't of the standard of the teams in and around us. Then we have mr klopp who is still in the early stages of his liverpool career. Will he bring us the title we so desperately crave, only time will tell. He needs to learn quickly that a ruthless streak is needed as well as a plan b and c. He still a fair way off being a world class manager. He needs some time to prove this. Maybe with a summer of backing by the club which I think needs to be a fair bit, he and we can start to see the making of a klopp team that can and must be challenging for major honours.

Believable7 Unbelievable0

28 Feb 2017 11:02:52
Excellent acquisition for the CEO position I feel. YNWA peter Moore.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

28 Feb 2017 13:26:53
Someone to make the club more money.


28 Feb 2017 13:49:13
It's great mate hire someone with no football experience but make more money for the owner great banter.


{Ed002's Note - It is not a like-for-like replacement, the club has restructured the management and responsibilities with Mike Gordon being very much the focal point.}

01 Mar 2017 03:21:42
Hi ed002

Apart from input into recruitment, in what other ways will Moore's role differ to Ayre's?


{Ed002's Note - His focus will be very much the global off field business and he won't deal with the players, their agents, the contracts and he won't have any involvement in the transfer dealings with other clubs.}

28 Feb 2017 10:50:23
Ed001, based on your analysis of the best LB's in the world. Would you go all out for Tierney?

And do you agree with Ed002 that La Manga should have focussed more on rest than gruelling training?

Cheers mate.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

{Ed001's Note - Tierney yes, La Managa definitely not. Two weeks of rest would have left them sluggish, slow and lacking in fitness. We weren't beaten because of a training camp.}

28 Feb 2017 11:16:38
Ok. Would Tierney be ready for the first team? Are we interested in him?


{Ed001's Note - yes, yes, but so is everyone in Europe.}

28 Feb 2017 13:14:50
So Ed, are you saying that last night we weren't slow, sluggish and lacking in fitness.


{Ed001's Note - yep. Leicester made us look it because they were so up for it, the players were certainly none of those things. Sorry but there were signs of us not having played for two weeks, passing off etc, but no signs of tiredness. There were lots of players getting in each others way, making the wrong runs, but they were making the runs. If they had rested they would have been far worse. This was far more about a bunch of backstabbing *censored* who won the title last season through hard work, working even harder than they did last season to try and prove a point. The only point proved was that they are backstabbing *censored* who downed tools on Ranieri and were fully capable of doing far better than they have been all season, they just couldn't be arsed because they have got too big for their boots.}

28 Feb 2017 14:40:17
Yep couldn't agree more ed001, I was going to write a similar post of how despite the disappointing result for us the most disappointing thing about that game is seeing leister remember how to play football again immediately after forcing out a manager who won them the most improbable league title in history, no reason why they shouldn't be top 4 now when they can pull performances like that out the bag.
Really hope that ungrateful bunch get relegated now.


28 Feb 2017 10:10:49
1) We really missed Hendo yesterday

2) Thank you ed01 for your even headed approach to things. We will get through this difficult time.

YNWA.

Believable7 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - thank you. You are right, we did miss Hendo, we always do when he misses out.}

28 Feb 2017 10:22:00
To finish my earlier post, let's not get carried away with so much negativity. Klopp has the track record in Germany. He over estimated the quality of his squad and the reserves. City, arsenal, Utd and Tottenham have all had their woeful periods. Our problem is without Champions league we wil not have any money to strengthen the squad and the competion this year is the most intense ever.
Money is the only solution and we ain't getting any unless the owners want to go on a spending spree. Back Klopp and hope the players can put some extra effort in to sort their form out. Also I don't buy this warm weather training tired them out. They only went for five days out of sixteen.

Believable0 Unbelievable3

28 Feb 2017 10:13:02
I can't accept all this negativity. LFC fans must live in dreamland if they think we could or should win every game. Up to Dec 31st we had 43points but since then we have beaten Spurs, had drawn against two teams (CFC and Utd) which are on good runs, lost to three teams who just as luck would have it have all been reinvigorated by new managers (Swansea, hull, LCFC ) and drew with Sunderland despite 15 shots on target and a 43 hr turn around. Suffered key injuries and lost our top scorer to Africa.

Believable3 Unbelievable10

28 Feb 2017 10:54:13
No one I knew was demanding we win, or even expected it 100%, it was the manner in which we lost and the lack of any tactical changes to try and alter the flow of the game. Even looking at our bench last night, we just lacked anyone to come off and change the game.


28 Feb 2017 10:10:49
1) We really missed Hendo yesterday

2) Thank you ed01 for your even headed approach to things. We will get through this difficult time.

YNWA.

Believable6 Unbelievable2

28 Feb 2017 14:26:49
We will miss him against Arsenal as well mate.


28 Feb 2017 09:51:32
My first post here- trying to find some therapy by venting:
For me the biggest single disappointment from yesterday was to see the team crumble after the first 60 seconds. Leicester came out aggressively and put in some meaty challenges and it looked like we had absolutely no answer to it, subsequently the team just wilted from there- typified by Mane who got a little knock and then decided it was too much and went missing.
You can talk about tactics, positions, lack of quality but to not match the opposition's desire and aggression is so depressing. Can't help but think the likes of Suarez, Gerrard, Kuyt, Carra, Didi would not have allowed that kind of performance to happen.
I implore the owners/ transfer committee to put "character" before "potential" when they are looking at bringing in players in the summer, we are way too nice and lacking in a bit of nastiness to win anything.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - The problem is a manager/coach who has put the team through another gruelling pre-season when the had a good opportunity for a break. I appreciate that Klipperty is an infectious character but he remains far from being a good coach. But the Liverpool fans all have the hots for him and can't see that.}

28 Feb 2017 10:01:45
Not trying to be an arse, legit question, has Klopp done something to you personally ed to make you dislike him so much?


{Ed002's Note - I don't dislike Klipperty at all, he is a decent guy but the Liverpool fans see more in him as a coach than there really is. They all want him to have year after year of transition. Other clubs change coaches and get on with it - Liverpool supporters use it as an excuse to start yet another period of transition. But no one sees that - it is of course Rodgers team and when he has his own team Liverpool will be winning the league year in and year out. You are struggling to see my point about his abilities and his failure to win anything for years (since being found out) and having no Plan B and seeing it as somethin g personal. It isn't. It was an incredibly stupid thing to do to force a "pre-season" on the players and it has completely back fire - as it was always going to. Muscle injuries, tiredness, and a loss. World class coach - no - far from it.}

28 Feb 2017 10:29:11
Spot on. i've reached a point where i don't even care if they're exceptional footballers i just want character. I just want them to show the same emotions us fans feel when they're on the pitch, and not be emotionless robots who don't care. At this point i have no pride or ability to identify with my team anymore. I cannot see this run ending.


28 Feb 2017 11:01:56
Thanks for the reply ed02. Why do you think you and ed01 have such different opinions on this topic?

Sharkopod with the two of you debating?


{Ed002's Note - Ed001 is still in transition.}

28 Feb 2017 12:19:18
Ed001 and Ed002 need to talk to each other more. One is saying that the camp in Spain had no impact on us, while the other one is mentioning is at the core reason for our poor performance. One of the Eds has to be wrong here or am I missing something?


{Ed002's Note - So did the players all come back fully fit or were there further muscle injuries? But at least they came back and thrashed Leicester.}

28 Feb 2017 14:16:51
They are earning a wage which is good enough for themselves to get motivated.


28 Feb 2017 14:38:39
This is what some BVB fans had to say about klopp and our current form.

goo.gl/jJd7GM


01 Mar 2017 07:51:54
Agree with you Ed002.


28 Feb 2017 09:10:40
I think Gary Neville summarised our performance well last night when he asked 'where was the energy'.
We all know that we are very likely to concede soft goals and pack the team with midfielders. But when all those midfielders don't put the effort in we end up with a shambolic performance like at Leicester. And Hull. And Sunderland etc.
It's a massive part of our game and if we don't put it in we end up dominating the stats- possession, attempts (usually long range), corners etc. except for the one that really matters.
I hate it when we don't even compete. Hate it!

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - The energy was left in Spain after Klipperty had the players do another pre-season when they could have had a break.}

28 Feb 2017 09:53:43
Surely a "pre-season" at this stage of the season should be a doddle because the players should already be at peak fitness.
Why do they need a break?
I agree with the "pre-season" because if you're not playing for 16 days you will lose fitness.
It's different if it's a "winter break" because every team is in the same boat.


{Ed002's Note - So it was a doddle Ron, no one came back with muscle injuries and Liverpool dominated their first game back. I appreciate that Klipperty is someone the Liverpool fans get the Kleenex out for, but he remains a long, long way from being a top class coach.}

28 Feb 2017 13:27:29
Reminds me of Brendan sending Sterling to Jamaica for a mid week break lol.


28 Feb 2017 13:59:09
Which means we should have increase energy levels after recovering from this Leicester exertion for Arsenal? That should further reinforced our RobinHood status in bpl as anti flat track bully.


28 Feb 2017 14:28:56
It can't be argued. Liverpool looked done last night. I wonder what Souhampton done in their 2 weeks off?


28 Feb 2017 08:35:38
Are we so poor in the air because we train and play with the ball on the ground? We rarely win headers anywhere on the pitch, we can't defend in the air it drives me nuts! Maybe like the posts below its about ticker?

Believable4 Unbelievable1

28 Feb 2017 08:50:55
I really have no confidence of anything happening when we get a corner. Last night we had at least 10 corners and didn't create 1 single chance from them. Do we practice corners in training or not. What I noticed last night was the amount of times we put the ball in the air, WHY when we never win any aerial battles.


28 Feb 2017 12:28:00
More No, that's a very good point. I am sure when other teams concede a corner to us, they celebrate as they know that there is a 1 in trillion chance that we will score. Firstly, the delivery is almost always poor. Secondly, its nearly impossible that the corner would land on to the head of one of our players. Thirdly, if by a miracle (or as gift from the opposition) we get a free header, none of the players seem to have the ability to score. Corners and Free Kicks are things that should be practiced to the death as they are so important. Corners and Freekicks are suppose to build pressure on the opposition but in our case, these activities just result in time wasting.


28 Feb 2017 07:53:03
Klopp obviously wasn't happy but he is to blame. Clyne isn't a right back nor a footballer for that matter. Milner is not a left back. Lucas is not a centre back. We have no prolific scorer. Klopp always says the same things after a defeat; were't good enough, have to try harder next game.

Believable11 Unbelievable5

28 Feb 2017 08:22:19
Liverpool are average that's it! They can only play well against s team expected to beat them. Which is the top 5 teams . when lfc have a responsibility to be the bigger team they flip every time . They get rewarded with contracts for playing well for a few games! Why! It's expected at lfc. they won't get top 4 this season an probably next season I say that cos when will lfc get a manager who actually fixes basic problems of the squad it has. Not happens for many years people celebrate klopp but most and nearly all lfc supporters wouldn't play Lucas centre back for example. Rodgers did dumb things as well so this team is average with a world class name . really look at the team and ask yourself why should we think we r better than West Brom or Everton cos of our name? Cos we have a Brazilian who actually scored last night (once in a blue moon) I hope we get a new manager one day that is not famous not expected to manage a big club because we can't do any worse . this team is full of flair type players it's not solid at all no fight no aggression.


28 Feb 2017 09:14:12
Klopp has to take the blame.
In order to do win a football game you must select the right team and then adopt the appropriate tactics
He plays a sluggish central midfielder against arguably the fastest striker in the league.
He also employs a high line against the same attacker
The players have also to look at themselves
There is a serious attitude issue amongst the players
They continue to disrespect the relegation threatened teams and this is reflected in our humiliating record against them.


28 Feb 2017 11:54:37
Erm what's going on supermane lad?


28 Feb 2017 12:30:02
If we want to win anything! then we need to overhaul the defense and keeper. We know Migs and co. aren't good enough. Milner lacks pace and isn't a left back. Clyne is generally clueless once he hits the final third, he's just so indecisive. None of our centre backs inspire confidence either. Matip has his moments as does Lovren but the bottom line is that the back four and keeper (for the past 4 seasons) have been poor.


28 Feb 2017 13:24:02
People will lose faith when you see no improvement and same mistakes over and over again. You can't blame the mass.


28 Feb 2017 13:52:02
Mistakes are there to learn from
If we can't learn from these mistakes there's really no hope.


28 Feb 2017 14:00:51
So diff between Klopp and Rodgers is one thought he can switch players and get max performance, the other thinks everybody should play wing-backs?


28 Feb 2017 17:58:39
Haha supermane96 has a twin mane lol.


{Ed025's Note - that is a terrible slur on supermane96 who is a true supporter IAC..

28 Feb 2017 07:37:39
Jaysus!
Is the culture of this club going toxic?
Is the culture of all big clubs going toxic?
This lack of effort, and lack of heart, backed up by a group of lads that simply don't give a flying wotsit, is killing me.
Why is it such a rarity to find an honest bloody footballer these days?

Hook the gutless players we have out there, replace them with the kids and come 17th, i don't care. At least we'll see some bloody ticker.

Believable12 Unbelievable1

28 Feb 2017 07:45:21
You mean like against tottenham?

Talking theough your arse mate.

The press isn't just about working hard its about triggers and a system.

The way lcfc played yesterday made it very hard to have an organised press because they where moving all over the park. Very hectic game.

We also played the chanpions who are on a bad run, who would of shot off into space if they had been anymore fired up. They broke there sprint record for the past 3 years against us. Basically they have never run more for 3 years.

Move on. Another 13 to go. You honestly don't think we will lose again between now and the end of the season?


28 Feb 2017 08:49:51
We didn't just loose supermane96 we got torn new ones. I'm not even mad, I'm just numb. If I'm honest I half expected to loose last night as a team always gets a lift in the game or two after a manager goes and once again it's no surprise to loose to a team we should (according to ourselves) be beating, the same way as I expect us to play well against and probably beat arsenal on Saturday.


28 Feb 2017 13:27:27
Lol we played the champions who sacked their best manager a night ago? Have this page anymore lgimate excuses to defend what was the worst performance of the decade?
Did we not beat the same champions 4-1 at Anfield? No wonder the club has not progrssed over the years. We as fans live in mid table mediocrity!


28 Feb 2017 14:45:06
Supermane,

"The way LCFC played yesterday made it hard to have an organised press"

Have another plan. Have a plan B. Tactics have to change during games to counteract the opppnent. Klopp is doing the same as Rodgers in that it's one way and one way only. To play a high line with a slow back line against Vardy was asking for trouble.


28 Feb 2017 06:45:13
Ah well, another game against a team in the bottom half, another loss. Top 4 is still possible and even when we were in our pomp early season, I said I'd still settle for top four and was often slated for not believing.

The really disappointing thing was our drive and ambition. Where was the fight?
Those with more knowledge of the coaching set up within the first team can hopefully tell me, why are we so woeful any time the ball is in the air? Be it a long punt forward or a cross, we lack leadership and decisiveness.

At least Sakho would throw himself at the ball. Their second goal was a lovely hit, but was the result of a high ball in the box that we faffed at. Their third came from a cross. On top of that, we can't cross for nuts and half the time our corners don't get past the first man.

Believable2 Unbelievable2

28 Feb 2017 07:47:19
Champions who are in the bottom half. Need i remind you that you dint win the leagye by being a bad team.

When we play chelsea do you count them as a top team who had a bad srason or a dmall team who had a fluke season?

To clarify you don't win yhe prem by fluke, it just don't happen. You might fluke 10 games mayne even 15 but not 38 games. Whoever is champion is champion.


28 Feb 2017 08:03:00
Excuses supermane, more excuses for a bunch of players with a bad attitude and a manager that simply got it wrong again.


28 Feb 2017 09:23:20
Supermane, you're also picking out one game against a "lower" team. All our losses have been against teams that other "top" teams don't consistently lose against.


28 Feb 2017 13:26:05
I would agree with that Burkeyboy. A top 4 was my target for the season, not that this team would do anything in the Champions League but the extra revenue might come in handy and eventually if we can maintain a top 4 spot we might attract better players.

I read that after Klopps first 54 games verse Rodgers that he had the same points, scored less and conceded more, so not much to write home about. I must say that Klopp looks devoid of ideas other than ranting and raving on the touchline. Im not going to treat Klopp any different than any other manager, he needs to step up, he should not be given any more luxury of time than say Rodgers, why should he?

At the minute he is failing. Top 4 needs to be achieved at all costs imo. I appreciate that there will be others out there that will be happy to give Klopp all the time in the world, for me i want to see progress to give the fans belief that we might be going in the right direction.


28 feb 2017 13:14:13
sakho played well at the weekend. fat sam said man of the match.

we're probably paying a percentage of his wages for him to play well for another club, while we have to play a midfielder out of position at centre half. it doesn't make sense what's gone on.


28 Feb 2017 05:54:17
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, World's Best Left Backs?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

28 Feb 2017 05:38:30
I liken liverpool to a brilliant boxer who can't punch. He can dance around and show wonderful skills but when he comes up against some one who has the ability to land a knock out punch he is in trouble and will lose. We need a genuine goalscorer and we need to sign playersf to fill our problem areas, ie, CB, FB, DFB, and GK with good footballers who are physical and nasty as well for example Souness, Terry, and the likes, Rex Makin is a better defender than what we have.

Believable2 Unbelievable1

28 Feb 2017 05:50:20
Amir Khan?


28 Feb 2017 06:20:51
Boxers have heart something out team hasnt. It's like they don't care sometimes.


28 Feb 2017 07:48:19
Or sometimes there given th3 wrong system for the job?


28 Feb 2017 13:15:25
Nothing to do with the quality of opposition Evred. peoppe are conveniently laying the blames on players when the problem lies elsewhere.

Liverpool did a Spurs yesterday

High line + Slow CB's against pacy forward and you have only one outcome. The only possible way Leicester would ever score a goal and gave them on a silver plate.

Klopp got it wrong, neither the wind nor the complacency.


28 Feb 2017 05:00:28
This loss has hurt the most.

Clearly we have lots of issues which people have already highlighted.

This really was a must win match. It looks like there is no fight in the squad, they just roll over too easily.

Whenever this season there has been a pressure of expectation, mostly the team has disappointed us.

Still the season is not finished but I doubt we will finish top 4, may even end up below United which will be even worse.

Also we should stop going to Spain for training 😁.

Believable2 Unbelievable1

28 Feb 2017 08:58:46
If last night is anything to go by, it's not only united we finish behind, but Everton as well.


28 Feb 2017 13:16:33
IF we don't finish inside top 4 you can forget Julian Brandt's and co and people will have a nice opportunity to have a real go at FSG due lack of investment.


28 Feb 2017 04:54:13
Hi ed001

Why the hell are the players STILL complacent? Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't they lost to EVERY non-top 6 team in 2017? Do they just not listen to the manager and naively brush it off as another 'blip'? Or do they just not give a toss?

Who do you think are the main culprits for the complacency? It's absolutely shambolic. You'd think all of the crazy German spitballs and a re-grouping training retreat in Spain would send the message across?

For all of the talk about a lack of plan B and bla bla bla, it all amounts to merely superficial semantics while the players just do not have the required mentality and resolve to win these games. If they did, this 'Plan B' talk would not be relevant. It's just like how some people partly blame Ranieri's poor recruitment for their demise into the relegation zone, even though problems such as failing to replace Kante have nothing to do with relegation form. Liverpool, just like Leicester, are literally in relegation form, and whether Klopp's tactics are appropriate or not, it doesn't really explain why we are playing so badly. This is a severe deficit of manliness in this team and it needs to be fixed fast.

What do you think ed?

Believable2 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - we have a lot of culprits to be honest. Not sure anyone can be truly excused, as it is a team game and they should all be sorting out themselves on the pitch.

For me we have Lallana and Coutinho, who have dropped their level massively since we hit the top. Couts can be excused through having been out injured and coming back into shambles, but Lallana just seems to think he is superman now. He reminds me of Moreno at the moment, no brain, constantly blocking up space and making it difficult by getting forward too early.

Then there is Matip, the senior centre back, who has no partnership with whoever he plays alongside at the moment and shows no signs of developing one. He is great when we are on top of matches, but as soon as we aren't he does not seem to understand the team ethic and provide cover. It is always his partner that is being targeted, so his job is to cover them, why is he not doing so?

Firmino is struggling badly with his passing, is that a result of the robbery and so excusable? Or is it more than that?

Milner is too predictable, he needs to stop cutting back on his right every time he gets the ball. Just play the damn thing in with your left, we know you are capable of doing it. Also, show some blooming leadership! You are meant to be an experienced international imparting that experience of winning onto your team mates. Instead you are a headless chicken offering little right now in the way of leadership. There is more to leading than hard work, you need to cajole, inspire, instruct, order, decide things. He is just too lacking in leadership qualities.

Clyne is just not good enough in any aspect of the game, no intelligence, no leadership, no ability on the ball, no reading of the game, nothing bar pace and workrate. It is just not enough.

Lucas is not what we need right now either. I love Lucas, he is a lovely bloke but we need nasty players right now. We need someone to kick arse, he is not going to do that. Great to have around the squad and for cover, but he needs to be surrounded by players with drive and hunger.

The less said about Migs the better. He did try and be decisive, but he was coming out for balls and causing confusion because there was no need on some of the occasions. Still he is at least making an effort to improve which is something. Sadly we never got to find out whether Karius has the character needed to make a difference, as he got dropped the moment it was tested.}

28 Feb 2017 05:38:55
How much blame do we place at the feet of Klopp for this? You mentioned that Fergie for example was ruthless. Perhaps Klopp should be just as ruthless? And he seems to enjoy a load of backing from the board, I couldn't really imagine the players having the balls to stab him in the back like Leicester did to Ranieri. How much blame do we apportion to his recruitment in the summer (and winter)?


{Ed001's Note - how can he be ruthless? We have no replacements to just bring in. The one time he did show a ruthless streak was with Karius, which was the one position we did have a like for like replacement. Fergie was able to just go and buy at any point of the season, up until March, whereas Klopp only has two short windows to enact change. So he can't be as ruthless.

It is far too soon to judge his recruitment, it is not even a full season and I agreed with his decision not to buy in January when he couldn't get the right players. Better to build slowly, rather than trying to throw everything out and destroying any chances of doing well. We simply don't have the resources to buy everything we want and need.}

28 Feb 2017 05:43:29
and thanks for the responses by the way.


{Ed001's Note - you are very welcome Robin.}

28 Feb 2017 05:48:28
Agree completely ed bunch of spineless you know what's been sunning it up for two weeks yet my kids ain't even been abroad they're a disgrace unfit to wear the shirt.


28 Feb 2017 06:05:11
A good response ed although I think klopp has got to start shouldering some of the blame.

Last summer I do believe he spent money on areas that where less important than others (mainly wijnaldum)

I also think we made a massive mistake in not buying anyone in January, our form had been on the slide coming into January and took a nose dive during January. A new player or two would have helped that I believe. If we truly couldn't get the targets we wanted then it was the correct decision 100% but if we could of got them for a couple of mil above there normal price then we should have gone for it.

At the end of the day top 4 is still achievable just klopp has got to get this into the players heads and get them going again.


{Ed001's Note - easy to say pay extra but that just leads to paying even more next time around. Spurs have stayed strong and made do for years, and they are showing the benefits. We need to start doing the same and just sucking it up when there are bad times along the way.}

28 Feb 2017 06:09:55
Hang on, did the transfer window used to be open all year bar for a couple of months at the end of the season?


{Ed001's Note - yes, when the original football-rumours site started, the transfer window was open until the final couple of months of the season. It has killed the smaller teams ability to compete putting in the window, as they have to sell before the season kicks off to ensure they have money. Before they could hold onto their players until they ran short of money, then they would usually have a player who was having a great season to sell for more money, or they could get lucky in the cups and negate the need to sell.}

28 Feb 2017 07:57:43
Ed klopp certaintly needs to think of changing the formation for games like last night

Against top teams where fine. No issue.

It just isn't working against the lesser sides.

Is it the players or is it the system.

He hasn't changed the system or the players so we can't know for certain.

What worries me is it was our am who made those changes last night not klopp. I have seen them talk loads and klopp sort of shrugs away but last night he nodded and origi and moreno came on and we did look better. Well we scored anyway. Does klopp have that?

He never makes a half time change and his subs are always 80 odd minutes. He is certaintly far to trusting of players, he creates a great atmoaphere and is our coach for hopefully the next decade but 2-0 down and outplayed and not a single change, that's what worries me. Why not bring origi on straight away.

Firmino ed was like this when he first started he's the weirdest footballer i've ever seen. One minute your praying Barcelona aren't watching the other you think tranmere might snap him up. His workrate is always solid but he's either brilliant or unbrilliant, doesn't seem to ever just be efficient. Brilliant player but n5 when its not his day.


28 Feb 2017 08:17:27
Sorry but not to lay any blame on kloop is unreal he had a center back with bite he choose to loan out instaed of using him till the end of season then let him go kloop is choosing the players and tactics and making the subs he's had over 2 weeks to prepare for this everyone new Leicester would be bang at it with raneri being sacked no excuse for me and counts has been shocking since his return back to the form that is normsl except for 5 games were he is world class said it before far to inconsistent would rather have the money for him and he's been back since last year so hardly an excuse for him he was injured so was lallana but u have no probs slating him.


28 Feb 2017 13:18:13
So everything on players now? Lol. The same team who beat a Spurs playing high line with us playing the same crap yesterday? The players fault then. Lol.


28 Feb 2017 13:28:26
It's really poor.
How many could Vardy have scored if he was in Form?
He could easily had 5

The problem is not down fully to the defence. None of thE outfield players set the pace of the game by closing down and pressing to force the error.
This allowed city to control the game.

The Liverpool players should be ashamed of playing like Leicester have all season ending in there manager getting sacked while still in the champions league last 16.

The Leicester players should be MORE ASHAMED putting in a performance like that after their manager getting the sack.

Pitiful all round.


27 Feb 2017 22:01:31
Ed001, do you think now is the time to have a look at what Arnold and Juanma can do in the full back positions. I know we have problems all over the pitch today particularly at CB but the fullbacks have been woeful every single game in 2017. In my eyes we have nothing to lose because if they play terrible it would be the same with Milner and Clyne. At least we mught get some youngster development. At least Arnold surely. That's a no brainer at this stage.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - personally I do think it is worth giving TAA a go, not sure both at once would be a good idea.}

28 Feb 2017 04:37:59
Once again, Juanma is injured and has been for a while.

I think it has got to the stage where Klopp needs to make changes. His trusted players keep on failing him every other week.


28 Feb 2017 12:46:25
We have nothing to lose? We have everything to play for from now to end hence I expect him to play the most senior and experienced players. The kids wouldn't be anywhere near to the first eleven.


28 Feb 2017 02:48:36
We can't give up on this season! There are 12 games left, 7 at Anfield. We are on the cusp of qualifying for the champions league. We have to stay behind the lads to the bitter end. Champions league qualification will make a huge difference to us.

That being said, tonight's game proved to me a few things:

1. Time to say thanks and goodbye to Lucas. He is no longer first team material.

2. We need a defensive midfielder to sit in front of the centre of defence. For too many seasons we have seen teams literally waltz through the centre of our midfield and defence. We concede from long punts down the middle. That's a faux pas in villiage idiot football. It is too easy to put our rubbish defence under pressure, it has to stop. Sell Can.

3. Set pieces! We need a specialist coach for set piece defending and attacking. We have been utter tripe for too long at set pieces.

4. Goalkeeper: We need a quick fix ready made goalkeeper, sell Migs and recruit a decent coach to work on Karius.

5. Central defence - I like Matip but he doesn't have any help. We need a world class partner for him. Sell Klavan, Lovren and Sakho.

Believable8 Unbelievable1

28 Feb 2017 04:04:36
Hate to say this, but I totally agree with your point no 2, Ron. The frustrations are getting too much.


{Ed001's Note - sorry but 2 is nonsense. How does a midfielder stop a ball bypassing midfield? A defensive midfielder is not going to affect long punts downfield, which are specifically designed to bypass a sitting midfielder.}

28 Feb 2017 04:29:52
Regardless it is clear and has been for some time (even though some still don't get it) that midfield is a problem area and is extremely weak, this is an area where a majority of games are won and lost and we have the worst midfield out of the top 6 teams quite comfortably. We rely too heavily on henderson being our only genuine central midfielder that's any good. Lucas is as good as gone and hardly gets a shout in midfield anyway. Stewart doesn't get any chances and is most likely just not good enough for this level. Can offers very little defensively and offensively, definitely not one for defensive contribution just due to his sheer lack of a footballing brain. I think can is a squad player and nothing more at this point. We need a midfielder, maybe even two depending on departures but certainly one that is an improvement on what we have. Whether that is more of a box to box midfielder or a defensive midfielder is up to Klopp but one has to be brought in. I said this in the summer but unfortunantly it never materialised.

The areas that definitely need addressing are CB, LB, CM, LW or striker. GK and RB depending on who stays and who goes but I wouldn't go as far as to include them in priorities. I would not sell Can (although I don't rate him and never have, I think he's a decent player against certain opposition) I would not sell lovren (he's a decent enough third choice centre back) . Everything else I agree with.


28 Feb 2017 04:58:47
I would sell Emre Can; he has shown no real improvement in the 3 years he has been here despite getting plenty of chances. Also remember, his contract will be up in couple of years and he is stalling on a new contract because he thinks he is worth more money. Time to let average players go and get in players who will truly challenge Henderson, Lallana, Wijnaldum.


28 Feb 2017 06:27:46
Sorry, re point 2: "punt" is the wrong word, I mean long through balls down the middle, not necessarily 'high balls'.


28 Feb 2017 07:59:28
Is not one of you going to mention that wuthout henderson everythunf fell apart.

We have point 2 lad but he was injured.


28 Feb 2017 08:22:13
Very simply, the squad is not good enough. Just ask which players from our team would make it to the starting 11 of any of the other top 6 teams. Currently, I don't see anyone but Mane and Matip, with maybe Couts and Firmino being accepted on the bench. This is unfortunately a reality, which would take some time to address. Hopefully, Klopp will build the team in the next couple of seasons, which can challenge on all fronts. Being out of CL makes the task difficult though.


28 Feb 2017 12:52:23
Not sure anything will happen from your bucket list on new players Ron. I agree with your sentiments.

Liverpool don't play with a dedicated DM under Klopp. We boy proper athletes, Running machines. There is a lack of composure in that midfield especially the deep lying midfielder. I don't expect us to buy one in the summer either.

Lucas was finished ages ago but then no one dare enough to say this on the page. He was never a great player. I expect him to move on but he was a part timer anyways.

Not sure what you mean by a set piece special coach. Klopp can't organize a half decent defense. You cannot bring in a coach for defending set pieces. that's a joke.

GK might happen at the expense of Ward and Mignolet. But with Karius number one, this could be a mere cover.

There has been no intention from the club so far to sell any of the current defenders.


28 Feb 2017 01:05:34
Klopp needs help not criticism. I cannot believe we are already losing our belief in probably the only decent Manager we can attract. Our problems lie quite obviously with the squad.

It is an incomplete team lacking major investment through the spine of the team complementing what we have already got. Yes, there will be few worth letting go of but on the whole, we need a large squad of capable players working with a new spine (GK, CB, M, CF) .

I prefer we stop doing major rebuilds on unknown, unproven prem league, squad players and work with what we got and spend the money (assuming FSG want to instead of baseball) on four ready made, marquee, finished article, players on the spine of the team, paying the going rate and just accept it as an investment in success.

It will always cost of money, because we are competing with other teams bigger and more consistently successful than us, so FSG either need to accept it or just sell the club to another owner that can invest in the squad properly and take us to the next level.

The club is a valuable asset but success on the pitch is the only way to ensure that asset remains attractive because I may be loyal (old) and support the team with or without success but the current generation will get tired of this if this under whelming lack of success.

Believable6 Unbelievable1

28 Feb 2017 02:44:22
I agree. We need to bring in players who are ready to to step up straight to the first team and improve it; no more potential this summer please; let the guys who have potential first step up (if they ever will) before bringing in more potential.


28 Feb 2017 02:21:18
It's not players, Klopp overestimate the squad depth and exacerbate it by exiling Sakho. This shoe lack of maturity and a lack if guile or Machiavellian smarts, just look at way Pep play it with Toure. A good manager know when to retract and use a player, if need be settle the player during summer, not when season ongoing.


28 Feb 2017 02:37:02
Ed1 agreed with klopp being chosen, ed2 said he didn't think it was the best choice when he came first. Ed2 also said time and time again klopp has no plan b which wouldbmean he's not world class?


{Ed001's Note - so what? This plan B stuff is just irrelevance. When did Paisley have a plan B? Fergie was different purely because he allowed his number two, who changed regularly, to set up the vast majority of things, so his system evolved with the change of number two, rather than him having separate plans. If you play plan A well enough, you don't need a plan B. Titles are never won with a plan B ever.}

28 Feb 2017 03:54:04
Dont like quoting the man but Ferguson admitted having todrop a striker for an extra man in midfield, so if that's not plan B its adapting to situations.


28 Feb 2017 03:56:59
Sorry I replied without seeing u mention Fergie. So Klopps plan A isn't good enough?


{Ed001's Note - no, the plan A is not being executed properly by the players. They are complacent.}

28 Feb 2017 04:09:53
If plan b isn't needed, and plan a doesn't beat the lower sides what do you expect exactly?


{Ed001's Note - I expect a change in playing staff to players that will put more effort in. Some leadership other than Hendo, for starters. I really don't see why people are getting so carried away. Did you all think Klopp had cracked it with the same donkeys Rodgers had flooded the squad with? Surely everyone knew this was going to be a long hard road, littered with speed bumps along the way, until the team could be sorted out?}

28 Feb 2017 04:44:25
Couldn't agree more, Ed001.

Anyone calling for Klopp's head at this stage are absolutely embarrassing themselves.

Fact is, this squad is simply not good enough. Where Klopp can be faulted is in overestimating what we have.

We need significant upgrades in pretty much every major area, including midfield. We still need a MF who can dictate play and takeover matches like prime Gerrard/ Alonso. That isn't Lallana, and it isn't Hendo.


{Ed001's Note - Lallana only turns up when we are in control of a game, he has never once stood up to be counted when we are struggling. He needs to either fix that or be moved on. Last night he got himself too far forward too early and ended up blocking Mane's space up constantly in the early stages of the match. Wijnaldum does his job, but he is also not taking games by the scruff of the neck. You are right, we lack a midfielder who does that. Hendo does it to a small degree, but he simply can't do it all alone. For all the talk about Gerrard, he never did either, he always had players to help him, the Kuyts etc who stood up and were counted, even if they weren't top class. They were reliable, which is something we lack now, we have too many players who can't be relied on game after game.}

28 Feb 2017 05:03:41
What is with this worship of Sakho? What the hell did he do when he was here to obtain this unwavering support from our fans? He is a player that has struggled with attitude and discipline issues throughout his career and that is why he was shipped out. Decent player, but people overrate and talk of him as if he was the messiah and the answer to all our solutions. On top of that, he made plenty of mistakes as a player on the pitch, but people overlooked them because he was for some reason a fan favorite. The same thing is happening now with Matip, who has had a quarter of a good season and has been poor since his return to the team, and already he is immune to criticism, while Lovren gets all the flak (not that Lovren is a great player or anything) .


28 Feb 2017 12:54:16
Why are people surprised over the defending all of a sudden? Not the first time we have let in goals! More worried this team ain't creating anything up front not scoring. Did we not concede 4 against Bournemouth recently?


27 Feb 2017 23:01:21
This isn't gloating, just to put it out there before I start. This is just constructive opinion from outside.

I can't believe how tactically naive Klopp still is after 18 months in this league. Don't get me wrong he's obviously talented, and when your on it, your brilliant to watch. But time after time he fails to recognise problems during the game and act upon it. Now you can forgive this for a time, but 18 months and he isn't learning his lesson. Going with Lucas tonight, knowing the pace of Vardy, and playing a high line knowing he loves to run off the shoulder of the last defender, was a disaster. And yet he did nothing to change it during the game. It's almost BR again in that it's one way and one way only. No plan B.

I felt this year was the year you had to capitalise to win the league, with the other top sides having new management, plus Liverpool having full weeks between games without European football, then with the early domestic Cup exits. But the leagues long gone. I still think you have every chance of top 4. You have a lot less games to play than us, so hold the aces imo.

If you were to miss out on top 4, I think next season becomes huge for Klopp, as if he were to miss out next season also, then surely he would be gone?

Anyway, you have enough quality up top to make top 4. But Klopp needs to learn to adjust or get left behind again.

Ps, Clyne for me is a big weakness.

Believable7 Unbelievable0

28 Feb 2017 02:16:24
Clyne can run fast . Positive.
Don't have time to list all the negatives but just once it would be nice for a cross of his to beat the first defender.

Firing your manager days before you play Liverpool is also a proven winning formula.


28 Feb 2017 03:04:48
Fair call Stand United, we were tactively naive against Leicester. Once Hendo was injured we should have dropped another midfielder deep as there was no way Can could control the game on his own and cover the CBs effectively. Compound that with Vardys pace against Lucas and with Leicester having so much to prove we should have been preparing for a massive battle and prioritising defensive solidity over attack. Yet again we lose to a bottom 4 side, and yet again to a side that played smarter with less possession (31%)


28 Feb 2017 04:47:12
Clyne isn't our biggest problem, but he's a great example of how this team isn't good enough. Decent defensively but mostly mediocre, and sometimes awful, going forward. A real inadequacy down the right hand side.


{Ed001's Note - do you think he is even decent defensively? He is just quick and full of running. He is so poor positionally that he is constantly chasing opponents, rather than being in place to stop runs etc.}

28 Feb 2017 04:57:53
Yes, some of us have said this since the beginning that it was something to be wary of regarding Klopp. Some where so lost in the hysteria surrounding him that even after his first season people where saying 'I can't believe he's our manager' this just showed the mentality of some supporters, as if people had accepted mediocrity. Not because we finished 8th under Klopp in that season and lost in two cup finals but because people acted as if it is liverpools honour to have Klopp rather than his honour to be coaching this club, it was embarrassing and never went down well with me, and you still have some posters and some 'respected' people on this site still making the same excuses. This is a shared responsibility, and it definitely isn't only the players execution that's the problem. You don't lose to the teams we have lost to and say that it's all down to the players, there's something more than that. There is a stubbornness in preparing us and not studying the opposition. The very best managers are able to prepare for their oppnonents, and that means playing different ways sometimes. We play one way and if it works it works to great affect, if it doesn't we are doomed from the off and Klopp does very little to change it. Klopp suffers from similar problems to rogers even though they have different style of play. Klopp has shown he does try to change things at times and it has worked on occasion but rarely ever happens during a game. Everyone seemed to forget that during klopps last season at Dortmund, they where in and around the relegation zone around mid season, Klopp seems to have a habit of going on dreadful runs and not knowing how to fix it until it eventually fixes itself. We had a mini version of what we are going through now last season around the same time. I trust Klopp to get it right but I think it has the potential to go southward just as easily as it goes upwards, and that's a major concern going forward. I said before Klopp arrived that I preferred someone else we where in for at the time who may or may not have been a viable option but certainly would have been better for the short term and I stand by that. I always said Klopp would be more long term and I also stated I didn't think we would win the league with him, but we would win trophies and achieve top 4 status. I think these where very realistic assumptions, and I hope to god I'm wrong in terms of not winning a league.

Please don't take this as negativity, I remain fully behind Klopp and the team. Even if we don't achieve top 4 I would still stick with Klopp, even though that would be a failure. The penny will drop for me if the right sort of players aren't bought in the summer, I think that will be telling. Until then we will just have to continue fighting for top 4 and get lucky as it's out of our hands now.


{Ed001's Note - so one season out of 14 in Klopp's career is evidence that he doesn't know how to fix a bad run? How on earth do you get that from that ONE season? Nothing about his career has suggested any such thing.}

28 Feb 2017 10:18:01
Thing is, in that one season, Klopp actually fixed it and Dortmund ended the season very well.


{Ed002's Note - He won with Dortmund - years and years ago. Great job.}

28 Feb 2017 12:56:53
Just like Dier and Davies against Mane had a clear outcome, Lucas vs Vardy has only one outcome. Klopp has been technically average all his career. Lost two cup finals in a very similar fashion. Dreadful midfield and terrible defense.


28 Feb 2017 18:38:42
I wouldn't have to mention that season if similar things hadn't repeated themselves ed01. There is clearly something wrong when you go on a run as bad as what we are going on now and what Dortmund had in their last season. Just look at dortmunds squad that season and tell me they should have been down near the bottom even with their problems with injuries, what are you going to do blame it on the players here as well. That same stick was used to beat mourinho with but he has done a half decent job of building utd up after a dreadful start having won one competition and has a chance of winning another 2 and finishing in the top 4. And like Klopp last season this is mourinho first season, so he will get a bye for his dreadful start. Obviously the situations are somewhat different because mourinho has much more resources and had that at Chelsea also, but the reason the players stopped playing for him at Chelsea is because he's a c*** not because he's got problems with his game management. Klopp on the other hand does and there's no way of sugar coating it. We have had every excuse since this dreadful run and we had similar excuses last season and they all turned out to be excuses. The buck sits with the players but also with Klopp. If it was a one off I wouldn't even mention it, but it's happened more than once now so it's a factor in assessing Klopp. With Klopp you don't know what to expect, it can either go tits up or miracles can happen and after rogers I didn't think that's what we needed. Either way he's here and I'm glad he's our manager but I wasn't one that brown nosed him and I was always going to call out the insufficiencies of Klopp and the players. Be half glass full if you want but I'm tired of that mentality.


{Ed001's Note - did you look where Dortmund finished the season? And I have discussed this to death when Klopp joined, there were a hundred factors involved, including the players losing focus after so many sales of players. No club continues to compete indefinitely when it continually sells its best players to its rivals. It was a miracle they managed to stay competitive at all. Have you looked where they are now under Tuchel? Klopp clearly sorted out the players and got things going before that season ended. The difference being the fans got behind him over the players, he had their full and complete backing, unlike at Liverpool where the morons are out in force with their ridiculous idiotic thoughts that we are entitled to win everything.}

27 Feb 2017 22:45:31
WTF is wrong with FSG announcing a new CEO minutes after getting embarrassed by Leicester, all they are worried about is getting someone in place to make them more money.

Believable0 Unbelievable6

28 Feb 2017 01:50:56
Or to soften the blow? Who cares? Stop complaining abiut everything. Get a life.


28 Feb 2017 02:24:47
If they need to remove a popular manager, they will need CEO as the buffer between them and axing decision.


28 Feb 2017 00:32:59
If there is any fair criticism of Klopp's it is this, he has failed to make use of his squad. Klopp has a first choice 11 who play every league game they are fit for. The only exceptions are Mignolet and Wiji who were recalled after Klopp's original plan proved disastrous.

Sturridge and Origi have been cast aside after struggling to play roles they are not suited to. Stewart, who we are told is highly rated, hasn't been given a sniff and none of our apparently excellent crop of youth players has been given any decent pitch time to make their case for inclusion.

The first 11 feel secure and unchallenged whilst the reserves know that however well they play they'll be back on the bench for the next game. I can't help feel this has contributed to the current malaise.

Every single first 11 player is underperforming at the moment but Klopp persists in playing the same team game after game. How can such an arrangement be conducive to player motivation? When a player like Wilson is killing it in the reserves but still gets no opportunity to see if he can carry that form into the first team what motivation has he and his ilk got to keep trying?

The best managers identify problems and look for solutions, Klopp has not done that this year.

Believable6 Unbelievable5

28 Feb 2017 01:30:41
Problem today was putting Lucas in a high line against Vardy. Klopp needs much better defenders to bail out his very offensive style of football. We need two towers in there to deal with direct long balls and crosses. And Matip should bulk up a little bit.


28 Feb 2017 01:26:08
Studge had his chances this season especially during the winter festive season and did not step up. Also, he's been ill all week so can't play. The Spurs win has not solved our issues clearly, I agree but to say Studge would have changed anything based on his form or lack thereof this season, is wrong.


28 Feb 2017 02:25:30
He is obsessed with Can and Firmino.


28 Feb 2017 12:59:13
He brought Klavan to help Lovren who already lacked pace with the former slower than a tortoise. Underestimating the importance of defending and splashing every penny on attackers. Can't blame the club or nature for it.


27 Feb 2017 23:18:32
What today showed is what we all suspected. with Hendo out, Klopp turns to Can over Stewart and he also clearly doesn't trust Klavan.

Those two positions have to be priorities in the summer, even more so than GK or upfront.

We need a top, experienced deep midfielder for these sorts of games, not a young kid to grow into the role, and please let's get Matip a partner. I know the ship has sailed but Sakho is really coming back to bite.

What disappoints me most though is the lack of flexibility. Clearly away from home, with Leicester expected to be fired up, Hendo out and Lucas marking Vardy we should have gone for a bit more safety first and a 4-2-3-1 and prepared to lock down midfield? Why play such a high line? We played completely into their hands by trying to sub like for like (despite Can being nothing like Hendo - no fault of his) rather than adapting for the situation.

That was all too predictable once Hendo got injured I'm afraid.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

28 Feb 2017 00:59:20
I agree too. When you know the opposition is going to be on fire, start cautiously and knock them on the counter. Klopp really needs to become more flexible with his tactics. Unfortunately, I don't think Klopp has all the tools he need to be truly flexible with the current squad. The squad is paper thin at the moment.


28 Feb 2017 01:08:23
I think there is a clear mentality issue with this bunch of players. How many times have we seen these sort of limp performances this season alone?

And by the looks of it, Klopp is getting pretty annoyed with them as well; he mentioned in his post-match interview repeatedly that the players played as if they had never prepared for what Leicester will offer, and that "we" are all playing for our futures.


28 Feb 2017 01:30:28
I kew we would struggle as soon as I saw that Hendo would not play. I was concerned that if LC came out firing, we would have to be able to match their intensity cos those players had a lot to prove. We didn't handle that very well from the off and that is what killed us tonight.


28 Feb 2017 13:00:21
We couldn't outscore today, We always let in goals, What's new there?


 
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