Liverpool Banter Archive July 27 2015

27 Jul 2015 22:26:58
What's Liverpool's fan base like in the US?

Without necessarily winning things, could we be ginger?

I appreciate the owners are trying, but i struggle to grasp how successful we are in a potentially massive market.

Hope we cracker it though andbtake our fair share of American supporters, as it would be sad to lag behind theater lot.

27 Jul 2015 22:36:11
In my moderate sized town of Cincinnati, Ohio I can tell you that there is a bar call Rhinegeist

27 Jul 2015 22:38:20
The mls is thriving now . I think the fans will support their own as of now

27 Jul 2015 23:33:57
Depends a bit on location. Liverpool is well supported in the US (I live in California) and run into quite a few, but all of Arsenal, Chelsea, and United largely have far greater support I'd say with City not being far behind.

27 Jul 2015 23:36:53
You a bengals fan Ohio?

27 Jul 2015 23:17:35
Where I am in NJ the EPL in general is getting a lot of traction. You would see plenty of people wearing Jerseys, some people actually hanging flags out the front etc. also in a town near me, Teaneck, is a LFC Supporters Club at a pub called The Cottage. Great pub, great Craic and can get a full Irish breakfast to watch the match!

28 Jul 2015 00:38:21
I live in New Jersey and we have a good amount of supporters. Of course you also see a lot of Chelsea, Man U, arsenal fans as well, but definitely a lot of Liverpool supporters. Several times a year i go to a bar called the 11th st. Bar ( yes I know, not a very fancy name) in the lower east side of Manhattan (New York city) it's the official New York City Liverpool supporters club bar and can be packed for the bigger matches. Opening day and any of the bigger matches if you aren't there at least 30 minutes to an hour early you can't get in as it gets filled to capacity. Many locals from the area along with folks who've moved to the states from Liverpool attend. When everyone steps outside at half time the street is blanketed in reds. Several Liverpool legends and ex players actually visit the bar fairly frequently as well.

28 Jul 2015 01:55:15
Here in Chicago there's a pretty large group of Liverpool supporters as well.
You have quite a few bars that show matches live every weekend. So it's apx 6AM or so when first match starts -- and it's packed.
The Globe Pub fits about 250+ and it's really busy, especially for bigger matches. You sometimes don't even have room to stand. But people are there getting rowdy, singing, yelling at the TV. great way to start the morning.

Few of us went to the preseason match last summer against Olympiakos at Soldier Field, capacity is around 60,000. It was probably 2/3 full. 40,000 or so. Amazing to see.

28 Jul 2015 02:22:39
Lot of liverpool gear two years ago when we were bangin em in. Those same people had hazard jerseys last year. It's a neverending head shake sometimes.

28 Jul 2015 03:12:46
Whodey!!! Ron, you live in Cincy, too?

28 Jul 2015 08:20:11
recent research reported that Liverpool are the most followed club in the United Kingdom and other territories with historic links to Britain, including Australia and New Zealand, plus the Republic of Ireland.

Manchester United are the most followed club in the world's most populated nations, China and India.

Chelsea are the most followed club by number of countries in Europe, Central America, South America, the Middle East and Asia.

Arsenal are the most followed club in the USA and Canada, plus Africa.

28 Jul 2015 09:28:56
No sorry, I don't live in Cincy, but I am a Bengals fan.

28 Jul 2015 09:30:57
bergenred,whats a full irish breakfast?are you talking about an "ulsterfry" soda bread and potato bread ect

28 Jul 2015 13:56:32
In Toronto you can go to a pub called Scallywags, huge group of us every week.There is a big population of Liverpool supporters in the greater Toronto area. You can see shirts all the time. I would say just as frequent as you see a TFC shirt.

27 Jul 2015 20:54:25
A bit of fun.

Without looking it up (you'll only be cheating yourself!!), who was our first £1m player purchase?

27 Jul 2015 21:38:49
At a guess gary gillespie?

27 Jul 2015 21:39:46
For liverpool? I'll go early 90s late 80s and say. not got a clue !
Redknapp?!

27 Jul 2015 22:00:52
No idea! I know John Barnes was about £900,000 ish. So it has to be someone around that time.

27 Jul 2015 22:02:18
Peter Beardsley?

27 Jul 2015 22:02:43
Hmmmm Beardsly?

27 Jul 2015 22:09:36
In the English game ,Trevor Francis .in the world not sure but I would guess Real Madrid might be the team to pay it

27 Jul 2015 22:10:33
Beardo?

27 Jul 2015 22:10:34
Beardsley ?

27 Jul 2015 22:12:03
I guessed Barnes, but upon checking, that isn't right.

27 Jul 2015 22:19:55
It's a bit before my time unfortunately but I do love these questions and know after we sold Ian rush that Peter Beardsley cost a bit not sure how much but I would say he was over a million so he shall be my guess!

27 Jul 2015 22:21:30
Actually just after I typed it could be Barnes they came the same summer so if he was first he could also have been more than a mill

27 Jul 2015 22:31:27
I was thinking Dean Saunders but that was in to the nineties so it wasn't him. I think that was 3.5 anyway.

Was it Rush on his return from Italy?

27 Jul 2015 22:41:08
think beardo was 1.1 or 1.7 not sure think Kenny brought about five in that summer maybe houghton

27 Jul 2015 22:48:04
Peter Beardsley mate £1.1m
Barry inLouth

27 Jul 2015 22:57:39
I'll go for Ian Rush when we re-signed him from Juve

27 Jul 2015 23:00:14
Why Souness turned against Beardsley I will never know,what a little magician.
Barry inLouth

28 Jul 2015 01:52:06
As good old Ed 02 says, let's not get into finances. It only confuses us :)

28 Jul 2015 08:33:40
Trevor Francis to Notts Forrest

28 Jul 2015 09:21:49
If you look it up Cloughie never paid 1 million for Francis he insisted on it being a penny under as he thought a million was ridiculous lol typical Cloughie, don't think he wanted to be the first to actually pay it due to his working class roots

28 Jul 2015 09:33:52
Well done to the Beardo replies, he not only exceeded £1m but almost hit £2m at £1.9m.

That same summer, Barnes cost £900k - what a bargain!!

28 Jul 2015 11:28:23
It was Beardsley.

27 Jul 2015 14:33:16
Hi eds what did you mean by the tip of the iceberg regarding sinclair and loaned players NA BR NOT WATCHING THEM

{Ed001's Note - sorry not sure what you mean. My memory isn't that good that I can remember the context of anything about this.}

27 Jul 2015 18:37:21
Hi eds,

Before you say anything I have read the posts as far as I can, and I understand that as much as I would've liked him (I'm very happy with benteke) we won't be getting him, but why before we had paid for benteke, would we have not been able to afford lacazette? I can understand he may not want to come to the club, but after a massive net spend recently,surely we would've had the funds to at least offer a respectable offer for lacazette? The manager/(whoever it was) said 35 mil would do.

I'm mainly asking as a friend of mine was sure we would be able to afford him and I couldn't persuade him otherwise so please could you as succinctly as possible clear this up?

Many Thanks, Josh

{Ed002's Note - I have explained this over and over - even the Lyon president explained.}

27 Jul 2015 19:25:55
What Ed is alluding to is that it is not just about the transfer fee.

Otherwise you could look to people like Toni Kroos who moved to Real Madrid for around £20m last year instead of someone like Adam Lallana for £25m (I'm sure there's dozens more examples).

At the end of the day, a player has got to want to move to a club, otherwise they won't agree.

Sad as it is for me to say, our club doesn't have the pull that it once did when we were winning everything in the 70s and 80s or even when we were doing so well in the CL under Rafa. At that time, on the strength of the manager (initially) and the team performances (thereafter) we were able to sign players like Alonso, Reina and Torres.

Now we are in the position of only having won a league cup in the 9 years. Our mega-stars have left (Torres, Alonso, Suarez and Gerrard are ones I'd class in that bracket, at least at some point in their careers with us), and we have a manager who is not an internationally recognised name (a la Mourinho or Van Gaal) so there's a little less chance of a player moving for the manager. Oh, and we've only qualified for the CL once in the last 6 years.

Lacazette is only going to move to a CL club with a respected manager. I can see either him or Benzema ending up at Arsenal in the next few weeks.

As I said, it's a crying shame, but just don't have the pull any more.

For relatively recent examples of similar situations, look at Man City having to pay £32m for Robinho when they'd just been bought and had Mark Hughes in 2008 - money talks and I reckon he became one of the highest earners in the league as he was joining a team with no recent history of success, but with big spending new owners.

Our owners (quite rightly) won't bankrupt the club for the sake of chasing a megastar who would want ridiculous wages to join a club that does not have a recent history of success, or a manager with a stellar reputation. Therefore, until we get re-established as a top-4 side and start rebuilding our pedigree by winning stuff, players like Lacazette just won't be interested.

27 Jul 2015 19:01:11
The president didn't exactly explain why we couldn't afford him and that is what I was asking for you to briefly explain

{Ed002's Note - The whole thing has been done to death.}

27 Jul 2015 19:37:50
Thank you very much zeddicus

27 Jul 2015 19:45:47
Alonso, Reina and Torres although good players really made their name as megastars at Liverpool. The same with Suarez. Here is a question for anyone. Can you name me the last big name player that we have signed from a top club equal or bigger than Liverpool for a sizeable fee?

27 Jul 2015 20:35:17
Irish Rover, how often do these big clubs like madrid Barca and Munich sell players they want to keep. Rarely at all. I can't even recall any selling a 'superstar' maybe except Kroos or di Maria.

27 Jul 2015 20:50:53
Good point Rover, although I would argue that Torres and Suarez in particular were already reasonably established on the European stage hence the relatively meaty fees 4-8 years ago when we bought them, both >£20m (albeit dwarfed by the international megastar - Andy Carroll, lol!)

Crikey, that's a good question tho, big name player, already established, hmmm. Maybe Litmanen, or Babbel (the original!)?

Paul Stewart (joke!)?
Didi Hamann?
Djibril Cisse?
Luis Garcia?
Fernando Morientes? (albeit he didn't really work out!)
I would include Torres from Atl Madrid

That's about all I can think of of players signed from big European leaders.

Probably Garcia and Torres are the only ones that were really in their prime.

27 Jul 2015 21:29:44
Top club equal or bigger than LFC? Aquilani from Roma? Morientes and Luis Garcia both from RM in 2003/2004? Torres from Atletico? Babel, Suarez from Ajax. Poulsen from Juventus? lol. And don't forget Borini from Roma, Sturridge from Chelsea, Sakho from PSG and Balotelli from AC Milan.

28 Jul 2015 00:00:53
Paul Ince?
Mascherano?
Torres
Suarez
Sakho

That is all.

We are Liverpool, we CREATE superstars!!

28 Jul 2015 00:28:23
I think Sakho is the only fair one there. Pricey for a CB, PSG are now a huge club with serious pull.

Morientes was too cheap for what you're asking, same with Babbel. Luis Garcia wasn't established enough I don't think to be classed a superstar. Ajax are not big enough.

Torres is the only other one I can see from the players mentioned above.

28 Jul 2015 02:08:20
People will probably disagree with me but i would say Emre Can from Bayer Leverkusen last year for in and around 10m. i'm pretty sure bayern had a buy back clause in his leverkusen contract so obviously a lot was expected of him and i think we did well to get him

28 Jul 2015 03:23:37
I don't, Jowens.I am very confident that with the right management, he will be a beast of a player. Bayern don't put a buy back clause in your contract if you suck because they did that with Lahm. Kroos, Alaba and even Hummels. Also, I remember when Bayern won the CL two years ago, there was a certain player I saw in track suits with the name Can on the back. Yep, that would be our very own Emre Can who was part of the group who were registered in that team. Goes to show how highly they thought of him. It's a shame many of us here think he's crap because BR who bought him, has no idea what to do with him.

28 Jul 2015 08:55:16
last top quality superstar player we bought from a major European club?

Pains me to say it, but true top quality European established superstar bracket was when we re-signed Rushie!!

Really, that is right, that is how far back we have to go

28 Jul 2015 09:33:02
Would have to say Litmanen or Morientes.

28 Jul 2015 11:33:11
Complete aside but imo Jari Litmanen would've absolutely rocked in our side of 13/14 in the Coutinho role.

27 Jul 2015 16:29:57
If any of the ED'S are around,I was just wandering what the owners expectations are this season,having invested around 300million under BR tenure,will they be happy with 4th or something more substantial like a title challenge.

{Ed002's Note - Expectations will be to challenge for and ideally win the EPL and the EL.}

27 Jul 2015 17:08:51
And when we do neither again will they sack the manager for not doing so?

27 Jul 2015 22:16:34
Don't want to piss on anybodies bonfire but the league will be gone by November and might just get last 16 in Europa league . Need to stop the goals as well as score more br has invested heavily going forward but we are shocking at the back .first rule of the great game don't concede then try to score br hasn't learnt that yet maybe next year .

27 Jul 2015 10:42:18
Eds i'm hoping sakho is being persuaded to stay. i'm going to stick my kneck out gere and say I woukd sell, skretel lovren enrique lucas allen balotelli borini lambertppossibly markovitch. I know some are obvoius but some ie lovren and markovich. Lovren was and is the wrong buy. Markovich? Chelea had an option , 7million I think, they said leave him another season at benfica, we come along and? 20 million!!!?? Ridiculous! !,,!,, whoever was respinsibke for that should be sacked in my opinion.its not markovitch is a bad player, did we need him? No!!!

{Ed002's Note - Skrtel has just agreed a new contract and won't be sold.}

27 Jul 2015 11:16:38
Did we play him? No.

27 Jul 2015 11:34:24
Sakho, should be the first Defenders name written down on the team sheet. But hey, we all know The Mighty Brendan has a problem with him and Ilori.

27 Jul 2015 11:42:52
I don't know if Chelsea's option would have got Markovic for 7m but they already owned 50% of him so 7m for 50% would have valued him at 14m.

Yes we overpaid but we didn't pay triple as you are suggesting.

27 Jul 2015 11:44:09
Being as Skrtl has just signed a new contract it's unlikely he will be sold. That said, I'm sure he can be re-deployed - car park attendent or serving staff in the hospitality bar or something.

27 Jul 2015 12:01:33
Can't believe people want rid of Markovic, barely played last season, was used out of position and is young and in a foreign country. Good god give the guy a chance and maybe try him in his right position or loan him somewhere where he will be a regular starter and gain valuable experience.
Also selling Lovren is also a stupid idea, bad coaching and no midfield cover Are the main reasons why Lovren and others looked so poor in defense. This guy is an international CB and is better than he has looked for LFC last year.
Would be better to start coaching the defensive properly and get some protection from midfield. Also sack the GK coach as he has not improved Migs so seeing as we are keeping Migs and he will be our No.1 then we need a real GK coach to work to improve him.

27 Jul 2015 12:06:12
Whether we like it or not, unfortunately, Rodgers rates Skrtel as LFC best CB and he will be a likely starter in most games this coming season.

27 Jul 2015 12:34:30
Oh my God, NO.
Imagine getting your prawn sandwiches served to you by Big Martin??
That would put you off your scran!!

27 Jul 2015 12:35:02
Markovic looks like he can be a top player he just needs game time.

Id rather loan him out if anything

27 Jul 2015 13:00:57
Markovic is a very intellegent player and not just Hit and Run. He playes as a second striker for his national side and at Benfica. He has good composure on the ball and his goals proves it.
I am quite certain Markovic was bought by the Committe and not BR himself and I can't see a future for the player at the club.
He is a very good player and would be a top class in couple of years.

27 Jul 2015 13:16:37
why do fans on here slate markovic he had less playing minutes than balo last season but he was exciting when he did play and chelsea would have had to pay 7 million for a player they already owned 50% so as some one put that would have been £14 mill , so what's the point of bringing it up about chelsea saying yes we want him but also want him to get more playing experience so leave him for a season then we will have him , not once did they say they did not want him , plus i don't really care who chelsea want or don't want liverpool fc should buy players they want and not who chelsea want as your implying , what nonsense chelsea wanted him to go on loan for another season so he is not good enough for us , its like when we would not pay the extra for C.Ronaldo all them years ago look at him now , give Markovic a chance and be a supporter of your club and the players in it

27 Jul 2015 13:32:20
I'm confused. If skrtel is brendan's number one choice for CB, why did we originally offer him a performance based contract this summer? Suggested to me he intended to see him in a reduced role this year.

27 Jul 2015 13:36:09
We have no strategy in our transfer dealings and Marko`s arrival is a true example of that. We had Ibe who is more ready than would ever be at the time, but we stupidly loaned him out and brought in Marko who is very raw (which is one of the reasons why Chelsea passed on him)for 20m (Really?)only to find out that he wasn`t ready then brought Ibe back from his loan. What does the shambles I just described tell you? It says we are just clueless at doing these things with no clear vision or objective. Now we want to loan or sell him which is damaging to the boy`s confidence and to our finances. He is talented no doubt BUT needs time to blend/settle in BUT we don`t have that kind of time to wait and for 20m, we should have just focused more on a striker who could have helped us score goals. We are reaping what we have sewn and I`m afraid many more players will suffer the same fate as Marko due to our incompetence in this area.

27 Jul 2015 14:00:35
Redohio

It would be more interesting next season mate.

27 Jul 2015 17:28:45
Re my original post. Markovich seems to have created the biggest reaction. Just to be clear I didn't criticise him ad a player or say it was his fault he didn't play. I was refering to the fact we bought him and then loaned ibe out and didn't really use him anyway. As for the money I think I'm right in saying I saw Chelsea could've got markovich for 7 million if that meant his value was 14 but we paid 20 !!!! So someone says it's nonsense? ?? It's not encephalitis to overpay on a player that wasn't ready didn't get played and another pl ayer was loaned out as well! !! No sense . Skrtel shouldve been sold. Lovren was made to look good by the players around him at saints mainly wanyama and schniderlin and fonte. Allen isn't what we need. Lucas is a good player who's suffer injuries and has no pace . The forwards speak for themselves. All of it is my opinion. I don'tcall ssomeone else's opinion nonsense just a different view.

27 Jul 2015 17:42:58
Mbrock I've been a supporter of the club and ALL its players for over 40 years. There was not any attack on any player. It was aimed at the people making the desicions.

27 Jul 2015 22:50:11
The main problem with transfers is having a mix of committee buys and Rodgers buys. Rodgers is too arrogant to accept someone else might know better than him, hence if you were a committee buy (I'm guessing Sakho, Markovic, Ilori) you won't get a look in ahead of Rodgers buys unless there's an injury. It also explains the ridiculousness of not employing an actual defensive coach, as heaven forbid someone does it instead of Rodgers. His arrogance could kill our club I hope some the things put in place this summer reign this in. Our club should be a meritocracy not Rodgers favourutes

27 Jul 2015 23:29:26
The blame lies with BR. FSG are new to this footy lark like kids in sweet shop with the scattered transfers. Marko is class if you can't see it you need glasses ( better than that 49 million pound gas bag) remember BR is sposed to be *the fooball* man . FSG bankers doing there part ( I must say i'm surprised as I had them wrong,soz) so why dosent BR grow a pair and start speaking up when he needs to? I support the club but I can't stand BR totally wrong for LFC I will stand by that for ever. i'm all for moving players out quickly if they don't work out but not because you can't accommodate them ffs.

28 Jul 2015 02:36:53
You can't absolve anyone of the blame when it comes to our transfer/recruitment process.
We buy far too many players.
We don't sell nearly enough players.
We irritate/antagonise other teams with our approach.

The whole thing is a complete mess. FSG in the shape of Michael Gordon oversee this process. They need to get a grip, come up with a coherent long-term strategy which is linked with opportunity for young players coming through.
The type of wreckless, frivolous splurging on players has been there since FSG came along and it needs curbing. Eve before the current manager we had £35m on Carroll, 10m on Adam, 20m on Downing.since Rodgers came along the ridiculous purchases have continued: Allen, Borini, Yesil, Sahin(loan), Lovren, Llalana, Lambert, Balotelli, Aspas, Manquillo(loan), Luis Alberto.

All ridiculous fees for poor/average players who are not good enough to get in the first team squad of a top 4 team.

28 Jul 2015 03:29:06
Ron, you are spot on. I will also add that BR's "kid in a candy store" attitude to transfers along with that dreadful TC and our lack of vision or structure in the TW has not helped one bit.

27 Jul 2015 08:39:39
hello ed002. if you are around and have some time could you tell me what is the fee liverpool recevied for armin hodzic. i don't know if you remember him he now plays for dinamo zagreb and their boss claimed when then signed him that dinamo had to pay liverpool a lot of money. by the way if anyone what's to know armin just scored goal of the season contender in croatian league and looks like a great striker.

{Ed002's Note - There was no transfer fee. He left after his contract ran out.}

27 Jul 2015 16:43:53
Forget 4th

We will finish in the top 3

27 Jul 2015 17:29:59
Which one of Man city arsenal or Chelsea are we dislodging?