Liverpool Banter Archive November 26 2014

 

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26 Nov 2014 20:14:08
As a young fan, I'm not entirely sure on a few things.
Could one of the eds please explain what a DoF does?
Thanks in advance!

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{Ed002's Note - Typically it is someone who sits above the footballing parts of the club (first team, U21, academy, kiddies, ladies etc.) and the scouting systems and reports the board. At some clubs he will make all of the decisions about recruitment, at others he will concentrate on keeping control of everything aside from the first team. At some clubs he will define and implement football strategy. So it can be a varied remit, but the key thing is to define that remit.}

Thanks very much!
Makes more sense now

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My sentiments exactly.

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27 Nov 2014 06:33:42
I'd pick Ed002 for the post.

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{Ed001's Note - she gets the blame on here every time we have a bad run anyway, so maybe that isn't a bad idea.....}

At least we'll get to see what she looks like.

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The fantasy may be better than the reality ha ha

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26 Nov 2014 19:45:04
Gerrard playing attack mid ?? Oh yes

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Yeah that worked out

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26 Nov 2014 22:11:57
Oh come Mcgoved , it was better . Look Gerrard is not going to be dropped , so won't you rather seem him in a more effective role, than a useless defensive midfielder

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27 Nov 2014 03:40:43
Roy

Apart form that one pass to Sterling Gerrard was doing nothing all night.
Should have played Countinho / lallana instead.

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Lallana for me, he knows lambert well and is a true leader which we need if Stevie ain't on the pitch.

Phil goes missing if our backs are against the wall, to often for me.

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27 Nov 2014 08:19:20
Agree with Roy and the OP,
Rodgers is lambasted for failing to learn from mistakes.
By taking Gerrard out of CDM and dropping Lucas in there, he's shown he is willing to learn, I just hope Gerrard gets a run there and isn't stuck back between Skrtel and Lovren for the weekend.

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26 Nov 2014 19:35:49
Is Moreno injured or not match fit? To only be on the bench and have Johnson nick your place is absolutely degrading.

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If Johnson can play for Liverpool so can I.

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26 Nov 2014 19:02:10
Mignolet
19 Manquillo
4 K Touré
37 Skrtel
2 Johnson
14 Henderson
8 Gerrard
21 Lucas
31 Sterling
9 Lambert
24 Allen

Hope I'm wrong but that doesn't look like a winning line up to me.

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A more solid look to the midfield for me.

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Johnson? Skrtl? Gerrard? Allen? Marvellous. Just marvellous. Goodbye Brendan.

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Is Brendan Rodgers a football man? - Johnson, Skrtel, Gerrard - the 3 biggest under performers in the squad all playing, with Sterling struggling as well.

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On the flip side I'm glad toure and Lucas start.
I just hope Lucas is starting as the DM and Gerrard plays almost as a second striker. Otherwise that line up is a mess.

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I just hope he doesn't have Gerrard sitting deeper than Lucas. It should be Lucas and Allen holding with Gerrard in cam. Sterling on the left, Henderson on the right with Lambert up front. I'd also prefer Lovren over Skrtel to allow Toure to play in his best position (on the right). Is Moreno injured?

Red Rum

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This lineup is really interesting given the pressure on BR. Is he really THIS stubborn or does he truly lack insight into our shortcomings? Johnson, Gerrard, Skrtel, Sterling??? Take out Lallana whose vision got is our only goal in four games? Perhaps BR wants to get fired? Atleast we look defensively set up, but there is zero goals in this lineup, and Skrtel is good for a goal against at the best of times. Bye bye CL and BR

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26 Nov 2014 19:58:58
Regardless of the result, £37 million worth of defenders on the bench and our £20 million winter doesn't make the squad

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26 Nov 2014 20:40:05
coop, Zero goals? Better not tell Lambert and Henderson that

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Ok, so we got two goals.more than last 5 games combined so I didn't predict it, and yet we still did not win the game due to Mignolet's butter fingers and complete lack of understand ing of how to defend set pieces. Still, a win at home to Basel would put us through. What is the likelihood of that?? Still hope we go through as the Euorpa league is not what we need now

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26 Nov 2014 23:34:07
Its our only chance albeit slim of playing champions league next season

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Cant see us beating basel, we can't even defend a corner, and we take off the smallest man on the pitch, replace him with maybe the smallest man on the pitch, while we have another smallest man on the pitch,
its a joke, this a big mans game, we are just getting pushed off the ball, being by-passed the ball, being bullied, and once again we don't make much use of our subs, we must be the worst team in the premiership, regarding subs,
we sell a tall competitive full back, and take on loan a maybe full back, how many of our team would get into chelsea or man city team, we are a million miles from winning the premieship, and Rodgers, is skating on very thin ice,

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26 Nov 2014 19:00:30
Just seen the team. And all I can say is either Johnson has it written into his contract that when fit must play, or he has something on Rogers that he is blackmailing him with. because nothing else makes sense

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Maybe BR is ditching his new found lady pal and eloping with Johnson at the end of the season and this is Brendan's way of showing his love for GJ?

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26 Nov 2014 18:56:53
Positive line up tonight! No Can, Coutinho or Lallana in midfield. Johnson keeps our only naturally left sided player out of the team and the defensive rock that is Skrtel simply can't be budged from the team sheet. At least I have ditched this seasons shirt and will be wearing last seasons tonight. Hopefully it brings some luck!

Cheers

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£100M+ spent and the players that make the grade for a must win CL game are: a loanee kid at RB and a £4M older striker and poor £20M Markovic can't even make the bench.

Brilliant use of funds.

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This definitely shows how "thin" our squad was last season.

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26 Nov 2014 18:50:52
Lucas and you're starting tonight ! I'm expecting two good performances worthy of a run in the team, only to be dropped on the weekend

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Lucas and toure

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26 Nov 2014 18:46:44
Another Big game tonight. not convinced with the starting line up. Lallana and Can should start ahead of Gerrard, Allen. Moreno always in for Johnson. And to be honest. Sterling hasn't been great. Coutinho probs would be a better option.
Either which way.Hope we not only win. but more importantly actually play well. we've been awful thus far thus season!

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Markovic instead of out of form Sterling

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I agree with you on every point. We got a draw tonight, which will be played up as a victory because it is far better than we've achieved recently, but let's be honest, Lidogorets were poor and Can, Lallana and More o might have tipped is to the victory

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We're just awful full stop. I cannot understand why any manager would revert back to a system and philosophy that makes your available crop of players look like garbage.
Fair enough. no one has played particularly well all season but have they been given the correct platform to perform at their peak? Is. correct formation. combination of players. tactics.
I don't believe they have. and that's down to Rodgers.
We should be beating teams like Ludo. at a canter.
We are a decent way into the season. and the manager says. Our season starts today. now to me that is just ridiculous! The season started a couple months ago and we've been shocking!
Fed up with it all now to be honest. Can't get any worse can it!?

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26 Nov 2014 18:39:18
Probably be asked by others, but anyone know why Moreno isn't being selected? Seems a bit odd.

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Because Brendan Rodgers "knows what he's doing"

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Perhaps it is the beginning of another "brendaning"?

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26 Nov 2014 18:33:08
In response to RedDawn comments concerning appointing Steve Mc Claren. I posted the suggestion a couple of weeks about him being an ideal replacement should the manager /head coach position comes available. There will be many who disagree but his cv is second to none. Many years at Man U as assistant to Ferguson and if he had stayed would probably be their manager now, experience coaching in Europe etc. His qualities far exceed the present occupant of the position. Also could look to a good 10 years continuity in the position.
1. He would stand no nonsense, expecting 100% at all times.
2. He would sort out the defence issues which is the current
priority.
3. He would give the local young players a chance.

1, 2amd 3 don't seem to be being addressed at the moment and I am not a coach but can see what every one else can.

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Is it April fools day already?

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26 nov 2014 18:27:52
just wondering if people see us winning our last 2 games.

if not would you prefer us to lose tonight to avoid finishing third in the group?

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{Ed002's Note - I suspect you mean next two games.}

26 Nov 2014 18:48:24
Categorically not. It winds me up how people see Europa as an inconvenience. Usually because fans are so arrogant that they think their team is above the competition. A cup is still a cup and all those dissing it would still become suddenly interested if we look like winning it. Eds, is it this season where the victor gets into CL? If so, all the more reason not to discard it if that's where we end up

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{Ed001's Note - yes.}

I guess you mean in the CL? If we win tonight i can see us then going on to beat Basle.

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26 Nov 2014 17:12:33
I've has the same post cut twice today about Gerrards role and BRs choice of words on the subject Ed(s), any idea why?

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{Ed002's Note - The first was published - probably on the Other page.}

26 Nov 2014 17:35:35
My bad Ed, when I couldn't see it I used the 'my recent posts' tool but that doesn't cover the others page.
Cheers!

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{Ed001's Note - I have added that to Ed033's to do list for the future mate. It will take him a while to get round to it, but eventually the others pages will be included in the recent posts.}

Just read the interview with BR and the Gerrard love in and was about to post.
It actually infuriated me.
Gerrards not to blame but the defence that keeps changing apparently.
Words fail me Brendan.

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26 Nov 2014 16:40:59
Ed001, You go on about DOF, I disagree we need one, how would you like it if you were the manager and you had to coach players that were not your choice or you didn't think were good enough.

At the end of the day the manager should have total responsibility of who he signs and who goes, at least then if it doesn't work out the onus on him, if you have a DOF and it doesn't work out, who do you blame?

Regarding Chelsea who is their DOF ?and does he choose the players that Chelsea sign?because I for thinks that Mouriniho chooses the players he wants to sign

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{Ed002's Note - Michael Emenalo has that role at Chelsea and he contributes to all decisions regarding the buying of players - as do others, including at least one external advisor.}

It's not about blaming if things don't go well, it's about avoiding such a situation by not just letting one guy call the shots when bringing in players, etc.

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Couldn't disagree more, alan50. At the very minimum a DoF/Technical Director/Sporting Director/whatever you want to call them would allow a degree continuity during inevitable managerial changes rather than the constant chop and change we've experienced lately going from Hodgson to Dalglish to Rodgers. In theory it would also give the first team coach more time to spend on the training pitch and focused on their primary mission rather than worrying about broader strategy and vision.

If I were in BR's shoes, I would not only stop being obstinate about it, but would whole-heartedly embrace it. I was in a similar position (albeit in a traditional corporate sense) and upon sage advice from a good friend realized that I could either be a part of the solution in helping appoint someone I didn't feel necessary over me or I could be viewed as part of the problem. It was spot on advice and allowed me to be a part of the interview process rather than becoming a casualty of it.

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In effect we have 4 or 5 DOF's (the committee) and look at how that's turned out. It didn't work when we had Damien Comolli either, so I don't understand why everyone is obsessing over a DOF. Maybe because Ed1 suggested it?

In my view there is just as much risk with having a DOF as there is not having one. We should be looking to bring in a manager who has a good track record in previous transfer windows and give him full control. For me, a builder needs to buy his own tools, or you could end up trying to mix cement with a whisk!

Red Rum

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{Ed001's Note - Comolli wasn't a DoF, nor is the transfer committee. Your whole post makes no sense whatsoever.}

I agree that having a manager that calls all the shots is out dated.

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What ever you wanna call it ed it, the committee and Comolli were appointed to remove full control of transfers away from the manager.

You may be right a DOF could work depending on who is appointed, but in my opinion instead of appointing a manager that can't be trusted with transfers, we need to make sure we bring in someone who knows what they are bloody doing.

Red Rum

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27 Nov 2014 06:33:04
Ed002 on your reply, I still think Jose knows what and which player he wants and the club gets it done.
BR has no idea on this.

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{Ed002's Note - I have explained it - why make stuff up?}

26 Nov 2014 15:22:28
Ed002, A question to you,

With so much being said and speculation on a DOF, do you think that's the immediate and best solution to come out form the crisis?
We have literally 6 months and huge wage bill to cover up making top 4 a must.
A new DOF would need time to restructure the set up.
Would you agree we need a better a manager and an immediate one to rescue our poor season?

Your thought mate.

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{Ed002's Note - The best solution is to:
- Get advice from third parties. THis has been ongoing.
Get that advice checked by other third parties.
- Get a full independent evaluation of the entire business run in Liverpool and London. Evaluate the commercial operation, the staffing, the coaching, the man management, the medical aspects, operations, etc..
- Gag the manager - this is again in hand.
- Bring in a general manager to oversee the stadium redevelopment and to support the operations in Liverpool.
- Cut out the surplus staff and processes from the commercial operations, reorganise and sort out the mess of and relocate the London office (this part of it has been completed in recent weeks).
- Redo the five year plan and re-evaluate all of the exit points.
- Re-organise the sporting side of the business with better defined roles and responsibilities - this is where the DoF, coaching side would be addressed.}

Wish the gag was more effective, he's backed himself into a corner with Gerrard and almost made him unstoppable.

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26 Nov 2014 14:59:34
Hi Ed002, I was just wondering, what do you think of the job fsg have done so far? You have a lot more knowledge about the subject and I wanted to know your opinion!

I think they've made some mistakes but I do think we as a fan base owe them a lot.

Thanks in advance.

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{Ed002's Note - People Wise: There have been mistakes - mainly with the recruitment: Comolli, Dalglish, Chang and Rodgers are the highest profile errors - and they were all major misjudgements on behalf of FSG. It was a pity Graham Bartlett felt he had to move on.

Financially: FSG has also put a lot of their own money in to the club and have taken loans for a lot more. The cost of running the club is well beyond their expectations and they previously through money at the Red Sox to get success - and they did. That approach has failed miserably at Liverpool and they know it. The stadium will be done in phases now and I suspect only the first phase will be done under FSG who are looking for sponsors for naming rights to the stand - and critically to Anfield.

The future: FSG want the best for the club and for the business. However, I suspect an exit in 2017.}

26 Nov 2014 17:11:37
Out of interest, was Chang a mistake they could reasonably been expected to catch? I thought he was reasonably well regarded before he decided to start threatening bloggers, or was he always known as crazy

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{Ed002's Note - He was a huge mistake.}

I think this is what concerns me most about the situation. To say FSG's managerial-type selections have been poor is perhaps being kind and I see them on the same quality level in terms of decision making as those made by our transfer committee. Really hoping whatever they decide to do, if anything, proves to be the correct decision(s).

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26 Nov 2014 14:59:02
So after reading the posts all things point to Rafa as the DOF. Another poor choice beckons, hopefully not De Boer SIGH!

Personally i think we need to go for a winner not a young manager who learns on the job and is brain dead with tactics and transfers. TICK TOCK Brendan.

I have no idea why Huddink has not been mentioned however i can't see him working with a DOF therefore if FSG are sticking to the young manager motto i believe AVB/Rafa could make things work.

Everyone raves about how Rodgers made Suarez what he is yet nobody says the same thing about AVB/Bale! Would be worth a shout eds? And before you mention that high line he used recall Llori and use Sakho and i think we would be ok!

At least AVB has actually won stuff, had a plan with regards to tactics but has been unlucky with owners maybe he deserves one last go at the Prem!

ATM we have a no mark who has won nothing who can't attract players because he has no history and no idea what he is doing besides clinging to Gerrard hoping for him to back him because as Rafa found out if Gerrard doesn't trust you your gone!

Hopefully this move is made quickly like Ed002 says. With links to Porto maybe AVB could make the Martinez deal happen and hopefully use the new MESSI AKA Markovic in the deal! Its about time we got rid of the dead wood!

How can it be so obvious to the liverpool fans with actual brains that another serious rebuild is needed yet FSG and rodgers continue to act calm!

Anyway am off to put a nice bet on a Lovren or Skertel own goal tonight to knock us out the champions league for another 4/5 years!

YNWA

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26 Nov 2014 13:04:46
"Gerrard can't play 3 games in a week". So he's kept in for palace game to miss Ludogorets and probably play against Stoke on Saturday? He can't manage the squad. Sterling has been terrible and his confidence is visably shot since playing 120 mins and then missing penalty against Boro. Days before the derby. Complained of being tired but doesn't get rested by us. Hearing commentators saying it's a world cup hangover. Rodgers subs Coutinho and Lallana off all the time and leaves him on. Doesn't matter how many extra coaches are brought in if he can't even prioritise the games and manage squad accordingly

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26 Nov 2014 14:15:26
Your assessment on Sterling is hilarious to core. did he not signed a bumper contract full on confidence recently?
At this rate his confidence would only return when Liverpool would have another penalty shootout?

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A mate Stevie G may not be alone in that statement you gave some of them can't play one game a week

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26 Nov 2014 12:20:29
This whole director of football talk makes absolute sense if responsibilities are delegated correctly and we can fit the role with the right profile & personnel. Some people think Joe Kinnear or Baldini when the role is mentioned, it isn't quite like that. The biggest part of the process is having a manager who is happy to be a coach & concentrate with only what happens on the pitch, that is pivotal. A team might be drawn up around the head coach by a DOF and then the head coach will be in charge of that team. You have to have a complete open mind and not be so stubborn, listen to specific orders and accept your responsibilities.

Off the field matters in its many things a couple of points making sure the foundations of a well-established academy are being solidified and making sure the team of scouts around him are developing the younger players correctly. Throughout a season, scouts will attend matches home and abroad looking at profiles of certain players. Charlton are a unique example, the manager will ask for a certain profile of player then the scouts will draw up a list of players they think are suitable then attend the matches and draw up a report. It isn't the man in the armchair scenario many think, it's a hands on role which allows the head coach to focus his full attention on the on-field matters. The Head coach will have a say in transfers but not THE say if that makes sense, a committee like structure is put in place not too dis-similar to ours but the main difference being it is not being controlled by the manager.

Ive mentioned Monchi before as a excellent candidate if he 1. Became available 2. If he were interested in the post 3. If we ever offered him the post, all of which unlikely at this time but he is the type of man I think would be perfect for the role. He runs Sevilla financially excellent, he has made cute signings and has developed Sevilla's academy into one of the best in Spain. Read up the article 'the man that built Sevilla' on ESPN for more info if your interested.

For me a club Is not about a successful individual it's about a successful team of people who are professionals in specific areas of the club and are there to help one another. It's a process in my view that is absolutely vital, the pressures can't be put on one man it has to be a team of people with left sided views and right sided views. In my eyes Rodgers has a team of yes men around his, no one with any real backbone to challenge any decision, that's for sure needs to change.

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{Ed002's Note - Another five years of transition then.}

We have made some cute signings too. toure is quite the cute guy.

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Where did I mention the words transition or 5 years?

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{Ed002's Note - Who said that you did?}

26 Nov 2014 13:48:17
If everything happens on the stats and past example then we would have been on the top of the table with players we purchased.

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27 Nov 2014 06:33:24
Sorry Ed002, but what do you think should be done and how long do you honestly feel your option would take.

You talk about getting independent advice, Independant evaluations of all business and strategy, re-organisation, staff cuts, bringing in general manager, bringing in DOF etc so how long do you think all that would take and then for all that to settle so the team and all other staff are comfortable and committed to this new system.

Sounds like a 3 to 5 year plan to me.

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{Ed002's Note - I have no idea how you have come to that conclusion, particularly as part of it has been done already.}

26 Nov 2014 12:08:57
Hi eds just like to say eds where is kidmillions and ianthered liked there posts I know Ian's mother wasn't well hope things improved mate if you read this.

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{Ed002's Note - How on earth would we know where they are?}

Ed have you stopped hacking the webcams then. it can't have been pretty.

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{Ed001's Note - we can rely on the govt to hack cams for us now mate, no need for us to continue to do so, GCHQ does it all for us.....}

26 Nov 2014 12:03:55
mmmmmm. .its all gone Pete Tong.


I would like to say that I hope that the club don't rush to a decision on Rodgers .They obviously rushed on the decision to hire him despite his unwillingness to work within the planned structure.

I hope that this 'consultation' is thorough and thought through . I believe that the club should not hire a stopgap as this will make the next few years transitional .

I hope that if it becomes clear that we are unlikely for top four as it will be by the Man Utd game (if there is not a massive turn around ).Then the club will look for the longer term even if that means effectiveley writing off this season.

I was full of hope with what looked like a realistic strategy from FSG built on young hungry players ( hopefully from the academy) with decent resale value .I also liked the fact that they had gone for a manager who looked to have a philosophy.

The millions wasted by ignoring burgeoning talent not to mention the on field cost is truly depressing.I have to say that we will be counting the cost of losing such quality for years to come .Why would a young exciting talent come to Liverpool, the chances of them breaking through are less than Glen Johnson getting dropped!

I could not care less if there is a DOF, head coach, manager etc .What I do care about is that there is a clear plan for the future and that we stick with it .

Klinsman took dogs abuse for his attempts to modernise German football . He was supported and the structure he helped establish has lead to continued success.

I hope that as a club Owners, staff, fans we look further than a quick fix .We must now realise that to truly achieve this great clubs potential we must make massive changes .I believe for too long we have simply tried to keep up by spending money we don't have .

I look at the mess on and off the pitch we are in, the complete fantasy land many of us fans live in and can't help be slightly embarassed.

Look at Southampton, a team with a clear structure the playing staff change, the coaching staff change but the underlying priciples remain. Southampton had to make changes out of neccesity but at the moment they have more money, a better youth system, a better team .

Instead of always looking up at the sky, spouting big names, marquee signings I think we need to start looking at the basics . We are a poor side with dodgy finances but huge potential .

I personally hope we don't make massive signings in Jan as we can't afford it and I want better for the club than papering over the cracks however much it pleases the fans.

You must remember 'you are only as good as your last game' and on that basis I hope we start being a bit more realistic about where we are as a football club.

YNWA

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A gree w/ u completely and that is what I thought we were getting w/ BR until we found out he was a complete narcassist (spelling) who is only interested in himself.

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Brilliant post Kobi.

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Surely its already clear that we are not going to make top four this season?
In the last 10 years or so, no club has ever come from 12th place in november to make a top four finish.
My heart says its still possible, but history says we've got about a one in twenty chance of making it into a CL spot, and the owners will be well aware of that.
So I think Rodgers is probably gone, even if we claw our way up to sixth or fifth place by next May.

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26 Nov 2014 17:19:05
In fairness anonymush, no club has gone from 12th in Nov to top for in over a decade. But plenty have made top 4 after being 5 points behind which is surely the more relevant set of figures?

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26 Nov 2014 17:28:57
Anonymush

Mate if we don't attain Top4, that would be as good as going into administration. 5th highest wage bill outside CL spot is a suicide crime.

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Hjikle, that is a good point, and the points gap must be some part of the overall picture in terms of us making fourth spot, as well as looking at the relative table positions as I said.

But think about it- the spread of points between 4th place and 12th at this point in the season has varied over the last ten years, and yet no team has surmounted that gap from 12th to reach 4th spot, regardless of how big or small that points gap was in the November.

That doesn't mean it's impossible for us to get the place- of course not. Sport is full of unlikely turnarounds and victories.
But us being in 12th place now makes it very unlikely that we'll get 4th place, and 4th place is getting more unlikely with every game that goes by without a win.

And when you factor in that BR has confirmed that we won't be buying anyone of note in January, and that he has not shown any real signs of having a plan B that will turn things around in terms of better tactics or improving performances, I personally can't see how our league form is going to change significantly. Even if we get a couple of wins before the New Year and reach 8th or 9th, the general trend of our points per game is nowhere near top four, and every game we go without a win means we have to do even better than 2 points per game after January.
Its not enough to play like a CL side from now on- for us to close the gap to 4th and overtake so many teams, we need to play like a top two side, In other words we now need to average 2.4 points per game if we are going to make 76 points, and thus have a shot at 4th place.

Like all fans, I have my red-coloured specs that tell me we still have a chance, and I'll probably go on hoping like that until its mathematically impossible, but the realist in me in is saying that already, even at this point in the season, we won't close that gap because Rodgers does not have what it takes to get the team playing again at the level needed.
It gives me absolutely no pleasure to say it and I really hope I'm wrong, but putting hopes aside, the reality is that we now have only a remote chance of getting 4th place.

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26 Nov 2014 11:29:10
A question for the Eds: do you think Rodgers will continue to play his way even though he must know it isn't working?
Playing out from the back, slowly and unsuccessfully. Mignolet trying to pass to the full backs on the halfway line and the full backs going forward willy nilly. Gerrard holding. A lightweight and slow midfield.
Basically, trying to play like Barcelona with Birmingham players?
Is he really that stubborn, arrogant or stupid?

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{Ed002's Note - I have no idea what the tactics are.}

26 Nov 2014 14:58:02
Haha, cheers, Ed002. And neither have the players, it seems.
I mean could you see BR becoming more conservative a la Rafa or Houllier?

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26 Nov 2014 14:58:22
The tactics are quite simple at the moment Ed002.
Give it to Mingolet and let him kick it off the pitch!

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26 Nov 2014 10:36:11
"We have got resilience. Okay, we will sometimes concede more than we would like but I don't think you can doubt the characterization of this team. It can't be criticized. We have got players here who have shown they have got courage and spirit."

The above is a snippet from BR's pre match press conference from yesterday.

Okay, now a few things concern me with regards the above snippet.

Firstly, "we have got resilience." No we don't. Our worse league start in 22 years, 9 defeats already this season succumbing to very poor teams such as Newcastle, Palace, Villa and West Ham to name but a few tell me we don't.

Secondly, "Okay, we will sometimes concede more than we would like" Okay? No it's not okay, nor is it okay hearing you dismiss it like it's nothing important.

And lastly he went on to say, "but I don't think you can doubt the characterization of this team. It can't be criticized. We have got players here who have shown they have got courage and spirit."

Yes BR, we can doubt the characterization (noun, meaning quality) of this team because apart from the Spurs game, the team has been awful. And it can be criticized, should be criticized and deserves to be criticized by all and sundry. And as for the courage and spirit remark, don't make me laugh because it's not been on display once this season.

YNWA.

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Another reason why he should stop talking because he is only making things worse by opening his mouth.

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26 Nov 2014 14:17:29
I have only one concern with BR, He couldn't do anything to stop conceding goals in 3 years.
That's more than enough for him to step down.

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26 Nov 2014 14:58:29
Still find it funny when fans write a long piece with literally not a positive word to say and sign it off with YNWA.

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Hjikle, I sign off with YNWA because I love my club. And I write the above post because I'm saddened to see it, in the state, that it is currently in. And it will continue to be in a mess unless major changes are made at many levels.

YNWA.

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Not an excuse but p*sses me off when people say teams like West Ham are poor just because they're historically smaller. They've got some quality players.

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Passion Pride- that is the reason he should be sacked, the defense has been shocking from the day he took over and there has been no improvement.
Too many excuses looking for positives with BR - Terrible Defense Guys, absolutely Shambolic defense for three years, enough is enough

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Whats more concerning that a man with so much on the line still can't get his ego out his head and still makes pathetic excuses instead of sounding like the determined workaholic we had signed on 2 years ago.

I was having a conversation with my barber, as always, about the football, and he tol me about how his son, had come in days before and even he had said that his dad was distracted with other things and not the workaholic and humble man he once was, that he had been losing weight, changed his hair style, whitened his teeth, copped off with the club secretary, had even been going into town clubbing and is currently pre occupied with moving into the gerrards house.

his arrogance has ruined him and he needs to be brought back down to earth.

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26 Nov 2014 10:28:12
I know i'm likely to be universally panned for this, but what about Steve McClaren in a Director of Football role?

He is experienced across Europe, but knows the Premiership very well. (something Ed001 (and I) think is vital)

Personally I think having him as director of football with a young ambitious head coach would be a good solution.

Should Rodgers leave my dream team would be:

DOF: Steve McClaren
Head Coach: Unai Emery/Tomas Tuchel/Vitor Perreira (1 of them)

Ed001, what's your opinion of McClaren, would he suit Liverpool? And would he leave Derby for us?

Of the 3 head coaches above, do you rate any of them? Would any of them be interested?

Cheers in advance

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{Ed002's Note - So what would these people be doing and how would it help anything. All of this talk of a DoF is naïve and embarrassing when nobody has suggested what their job might be.}

26 Nov 2014 12:02:51
I was using the model that Ed001 discussed previously, in that the Director of Football takes overall control of the direction of the football club (with input from the board)

So the DoF would be responsible for designing a vision for how the club should play, a heavy degree of control over the players bought (with finances strictly controlled by the board), and would then be responsible for implementing this vision throughout the club from top to bottom (very similar to the way Cruyff works at Ajax now)

The Head Coach would then be responsible for implementing this vision within the first team. They would be responsible for training, for integrating young players at the DoF's behest, and for match day tactics etc.

The DoF would also then of course bring in people (or utilise what is there) at different levels throughout the club, to ensure that the overall vision is maintained. This would be everyone from youth coaches to team doctors. The DoF would have the power to bring in additional staff, or relocate staff to fill gaps if they developed, for example a Defensive Coach to fix a leaky Defence or a GK coach.

I remember reading a very good article on the BBC (around christmas last year I think) about Cortese at Southampton and how he implemented his vision across the whole club. We know that relationship didn't end brilliantly, but I think the idea has merit.

I don't know if this is how these roles would work in real life, I was working from what Ed001 has said recently surrounding the role of Cruyff at Ajax etc, I think another good example is Monchi at Sevilla, but he is more geared towards young player development it would seem rather that total control of the direction of the club.

I may be way wide of the mark, and i'm always happy to be corrected if so.

Cheers for the swift reply though Ed002.

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{Ed002's Note - You should take all of this to the fantasy football pages.}

I think that's a little harsh Ed. I don't know how these things work i'm just trying to piece things together a bit.

Everyone keeps talking about Managers or Head Coaches or Directors of Football and I am just trying to make sense of it all.

The way that Cruyff works, that Ed001 has mentioned on a number of occasions is very similar to the model I described above, I don't see how that is "fantasy".

In addition the detailed article about Cortese showed that he also worked in a similar way to what I described (although with less direct involvement in the tactics etc).

However, seeing as that is obviously not the right way to look at it, it has been mentioned before (certainly by Ed001 and perhaps you as well) that FSG's preferred option was to have a Director of Football after Kenny left.

How did FSG envisage such a role working? Were they looking for a figure like Cruyff, or did they have their own idea of what the role should encompass?

Cheers for the swift replies though, much appreciated!

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{Ed002's Note - I don't want to be too harsh on you but people have completely lost direction over this "DoF" role. The owners are, fortunately, looking at a much larger picture.}

It's good to hear that the owner's are looking at the bigger picture.

Are you able to give us an indication of what they are thinking at the moment? (nothing specific of course)

Or perhaps more interesting, what do you think is needed to fix things at Liverpool?

Many other teams seem to be leaving us behind at the moment, in terms of club structure, income streams and of course results on the pitch, and I am very concerned that we could slip away into relative obscurity.

Cheers in advance

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{Ed002's Note - I have explained over and over.}

I see the director of football role as being someone who works as the link between the owners and the coaching staff.
A director of football would have to be a mediator who finds common ground between "what the manager wants" and what the owners "say the manager can have".
The owners need to have a clear vision.
I am not sure what that vison is at the moment but I would hazard a guess in the short term that we must qualify for the Champions League every year while not spending the sums we currently are on players.
We can't match Chelsea and City in terms of sheer wealth but we have a bigger fan base and if we used our academy the right way we might be able to match these clubs by being clever.
A strategy of introducing young talent and buying top quality only when we have to is not a bad starting point in my opinion.
The last window was a disgrace looking back now.
I think we can all agree that a large amount of this money looks, at the moment, to have been wasted.
We all hope that Lovren Lambert etc all improve but at this moment it does not look good.
A director of football or "an old wise head" as they should call it would have been able to ask the basic questions on transfer policy.
"Why do we need Markovic when Ibe is already here?"
Why sign a young right back when we have sent a young right back on loan to a club in the same division?
"Why not spend some of the Suarez money on someone who plays a bit like Suarez?"
The coach/manager and the D Of Football do not always need to agree but do need to work together for the common good of the club so in my opinion they have at least like each other to begin with.
The question mark I have over this type of structure is that everyone can blame everyone else when the ship hits the iceberg.
I can see a lot of bucks being passed under the director of football model.
This has happened to a lesser extent at Liverpool this season because of this "transfer committee".
Ambiguity remains over who buys the players, the committee or Rodgers.
I would say at the moment our structure is a halfway house between the director of football model and the traditional "Ferguson model" ( for want of a better description)
I think I am in the No camp for a director of football model.
I think it over complicates what can be an easy process.
I think a good assistant manager should be able to ask the questions which need asking regarding transfer policy that need asking as well as a good chief exec.
The most successful clubs in this country have based that success on the Ferguson model rather than a director of football model.
Maybe because it is a foreign idea which is given short shrift in this country because we are too stuck in our ways. who knows.
The interesting thing for me is that Ferguson started off as a manager and then when he had the full support of the board/fans/players he became more like a director of football as time went on.
My apologies for the long posts guys but my type of work slows down around Christmas so I have loads of time on my hands. Bored.
Poor Eds.
I just can't stop posting.
I need some sort of plug to stem the flow:)
ha ha

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{Ed001's Note - the Ferguson model became him as DoF mate. He never took training, that was left to his coaches. Hence why there was such a variance in styles played depending on who was his number 2 at the time. He oversaw the training, but he wasn't running it like a traditional British style manager. The reason he was able to stay successful for so long wasn't just having a lot of money to spend, it was knowing when to delegate. The DoF has to be in charge and make the decisions, otherwise it becomes as you have said, no one in clear control, as is currently happening at Spurs.}

Was Ferguson's style of management like a director of football when he joined United in the 1980's or did he adapt as he gained more and more control?
Also Ed. If you don't mind.
What are your opinions on the director of football being an ex player/manager of the club in question?
It seems to me. and I may be wrong that most director's of football at clubs around the world tend to work best if they have an affiliation with the club in some way.
A Daglish type of figure to use an example.

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{Ed001's Note - it was always very similar to a DoF as he was never really a coach, which the old style managers were first and foremost.

I don't think it matters if they have a previous affiliation with the club, it just matters that they have a clear style that they wish to be implemented and a good idea about the type of players needed to do so. It is more about their intelligence than there affinity.}

26 Nov 2014 07:59:03
Hi eds,
I've been coming to this site long enough now to know that the information given by you all is pretty accurate. I'm aware you've had a lot of questions on the future of Brendan Rodgers, so I'm sorry to ask you another one! I just want to know, Ed001 particularly, how likely is it that Brendan Rodgers will no longer be the manager of Liverpool FC in the near future?

And if it's likely, then when do you expect him to go?
(I just want to go on record to say that I personally don't believe that sacking BR is the right solution, but I'll support the club no matter what they do).
Thanks in advance Eds,
YNWA

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{Ed001's Note - if I was in a country that allowed gambling, I would have put money on him not being in charge next season a long time ago. And I don't gamble if I am not sure.}

Ed01

Do we have to wait that long? really? It could be difficult enticing somebody to manage in the Championship.

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26 Nov 2014 11:46:38
Can't gamble, so those rumours of an secret casino beneath the Burj Al Arab are false then?

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He's 15/8 to be in charge on the last day of the season on PP, ed you want me to put any money down for you?

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{Ed001's Note - hahaha no mate, as I was going to put money down in the hope of being wrong, as that would mean we played well the rest of the season.}

26 Nov 2014 06:13:29
Morning eds and reds, what i am about to say will cause a bit of uproar. Regarding the issue of suso, first of all i am a massive fan of his, he has talent and potential, no doubt about that but, i kind of think he is massively overhyped by some fans on here. The thing is, if he goes what i will watch out for from him is his performance for his next club(preferably milan)to really see if he can fulfill his potential, only then i will criticize his sales.i know some will say he did quite well at almeria, okay agreed but i think the manager(rodgers)knows the players more than us(fans), that is why i will reserve my judgement of him(suso).

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{Ed001's Note - if Rodgers is such a good judge of players, why does he continually pick the worst right back in the club's history, Glenn Johnson?}

26 Nov 2014 10:09:57
As much as I dislike him playing Johnson, if is he the worse right back in the club's history, how did he get so many English caps? Are you saying that ALL the previous managers he played for were wrong, but you are right?

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Phillipe degan??

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26 Nov 2014 10:14:02
Ed01, that being said He plays Gerrard as a DM

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If you consider Rodgers failed acquisitions, (too many to mention at this stage) it becomes glaringly obvious that he doesn't know his arse from his elbow !!

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Jan kronkamp can't forget that one ed!

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Josemi!

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Phillip Degen?!!

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He fits nicely in between Kwarme and Degen for me.
Shame because Glenn has the attributes but not the footballing brain to accompany them.

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Wouldn't it be great if arbeloa never left.
Always underrated in my eyes.

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26 Nov 2014 05:56:59
hello eds,

sorry for asking it once again. is de Boer tactically astute as in can he make the required changes for us to win a match.

thanks.

YNWA

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{Ed001's Note - I honestly don't know mate, the Prem is a totally different kettle of fish than the Eredivisie.}

26 Nov 2014 10:15:23
Spot on ed01, the league is a different ball game.
I would have myself gone for a bigger proven manager.

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Koeman seems to be handling the league very well.

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26 Nov 2014 09:05:14
Can someone please tell me how Br is able to say he doesn't want a DOF?

If my boss said "Listen son, we think you need some help so we're going to hire someone to give you it" and I said "no i can do it on my own" I'd simply be told to comply or find a new job

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26 Nov 2014 10:17:20
There are only few managers willing to work under a DOF.
I won't blame BR for that. Alan Padrew, AVB all examples.
Would Jose or Wenger no matter how worse the results are would work under a DOF?
Certainly not.

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{Ed002's Note - Chelsea has a DoF - so you argument goes out of the window.}

FSG wasnt his boss when he said no to the DOF. FSG agreed, then hired him.

The transfer committee tho, is exactly the same as your situation, which is why the transfer committee was set up despite BR not wanting it.

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Exactly, Ed. This "can`t have a DOF" business is a complete joke. Barca, RM, Bayern, City, Chelsea and the lot all have DOF`s with clearly defined functions. So for those saying a DOF is not needed should stop living in the past.

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26 Nov 2014 04:56:52
Ed's 001. In your opinion who will be the next Liverpool manager/head coach?

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{Ed001's Note - I don't know, no decision has been made yet, though I know De Boer has both expressed an interest and is liked by some within the club. He was one of the shortlist last time around, but didn't feel ready to leave Ajax then so was ruled out. I know Laudrup is a possibility, but I feel the club can't fail to know about the shambles of his time at Swansea, including not taking training when it was raining etc. I think that they will think better of him as an option when they do their research. I know Klinsmann is well respected by FSG, but I can't see him leaving the USA to take the job. It really does seem De Boer would have to be the most likely.}

Ed001 what about the DOF? Any names being discussed as of yet?

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{Ed001's Note - Cruyff would be the choice, but he is not interested in another big job, hence his lack of interest last time around. I expect them to go for someone well known in the US, personally.}

If only we can get Cruyff to come with him ey ed001.

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{Ed001's Note - I wish.}

Thankyou for the swift and detailed response ed's 001 it's appreciated. I have reservations about De Boer but that's for another day. Let me ask you another question. Who do you think will be the new Liverpool FC DOF? And any names you know on the shortlist?

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{Ed001's Note - not yet mate, but I am of the opinion (as are some people within the club) that it will be someone who is well known and respected in the US. Someone FSG know well, such as Bruce Arena, though I am not saying it will be him, just the kind of person I would think they will look for.}

Honestly ed001, i feel like they should just look for a respected man in the business, not just in the US.

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{Ed001's Note - I agree, but they are from the US, so have some idea of who is respected there. Personally I think it would be best to bring in someone who knows the English league, as like all leagues it has its own personal foibles to overcome. That way they aren't wasting time learning the league at the start.}

Ed's 001. If the logic is that the DOF sets the footballing blueprint for the head coach to follow then if we appoint an American DOF aren't we in trouble? Because as far as I know there isn't many American's who have the technical capabilities to take us forward. I stand corrected though.

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{Ed001's Note - why would an American not have the technical capabilities to tell a coach he wants the team to play a quick passing, high pressing system, for example? He doesn't have to get into the nitty gritty of details, just set out a style for the coach to implement.}

I know you said not Bruce Arena and I hope that's accurate. I don't meet many in world football, but did spend some time a few years back with Arena and then US manager Bob Bradley in a Q&A sort of thing. Anyways, Arena was a complete tool and massively disrespectful whereas Bradley was great to speak with and a real gentleman.

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{Ed001's Note - don't worry, I was just using him as an example, not as someone I expect to get the role.}

David Beckham?

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I could be DOF, just say I want you to play like Chelsea. I want you to promote from our accedemy before buying from other teams. I want you to drop Gerrard to a lesser role in the team, I want you to drop skrtle, I want you to sell Johnson, give suso a starting place, drop ballotelli for borini and only give one word answers in interviews. Lol
My salary is a basic of £1m a year, with bonuses for any major trophies won.
I can start next week. Haha

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26 Nov 2014 11:49:07
Joe Kinnear?

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26 Nov 2014 19:32:03
What a pathetic, stereotypical, insecure, and ignorant remark by Brendan's advocate

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26 Nov 2014 04:55:08
We've been beaten 8 times this season in all competitions. That is an appalling stat. No wonder there's no confidence in the group we expect to lose each time we play. This so called 'consultation' FSG are carrying out for the sake of our short/medium term future must be finalized quickly because were becoming a laughing stock. The way I see it is that FSG are in the process of recruiting a DOF and a head coach and putting the feelers out for availability hence the delay in sacking Rogers. I have an ex journalist buddy of mine who lives in Copenhagen and the rumour in Denmark is that Laudrup is being strongly linked with the job and he will have no qualms about working under a DOF. I really don't think De Boer is the answer. I truly believe Rafa is the way forward. He will give us immediate solidity and will have no problems dumping Gerrard if need be. We need a man of steel to make tough, unpopular decisions and I believe Rafa is the man. De Boer is to wishy washy for me and another in the mold of Rogers. I honestly would love to see the King take the job if it meant Rogers would leave post haste.

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You. should change your name.

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Have you heard of something called Irony, Kaizer? If not listen to a few Alanis Morisette ditties and I'm sure you'll stumble across it.

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Class Kaizer !!

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I was w/ you until the Rafa part which is not viable at this point. He`s old news and should stay there.

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26 Nov 2014 19:37:44
How does winning 3 championships since 2010 count as wishy washy?

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26 Nov 2014 02:14:39
Eds do you believe the owners will first hire a director before they hire a new manager or will they simply replace Rodgers and keep thue same structural set up?

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{Ed001's Note - I expect the DoF system to be put in place, personally.}

26 Nov 2014 03:26:55
Ed01, you believe BR would ever willing to work under a DOF?

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{Ed001's Note - no, I don't think his pride would allow it right now.}

26 Nov 2014 03:39:33
Ed01 on your above reply.
What does that mean?
My take on this, we don't need a DOF, as it will bring more trouble with him and BR. We would be a laughing stock in the papers.
Either a new class manager who has a pretty god track record or stick with BR ( A poor choice )

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{Ed001's Note - I mean they will rip out the old system, lock, stock and barrel, and replace it with a DoF and his choice of manager, I think.}

Good on them. BR will not be here whe that DOF is installed because his stupid pride as Ed said won`t allow it and in the end, will get him sacked.

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26 Nov 2014 00:40:30
Brendan Rodgers has bascially taken on with LFC what is akin to being the Chief Operations Officer (COO) at a large corporation. Being the Manager makes you responsible for whatever items the CEO/Board chooses for you.

In Rodgers case, he simply does not have the experience for a job of this magnitude, it's akin to going from COO at a chain of 5 takeaway shops to the COO of McDonalds.

That's not to say he's the wrong person for the job, rather that he needs a mentor, someone who has been there and done that and the obvious position is that of Director of Football to support him.

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Brendan does not need a mentor. He had one in Jose and no matter what u think of Jose, he is a world class manager who brings out the best in his players, a trait which Brendan failed to pick up on. What Brendan needs is the sack to cut him down to size due to his stubborness and arrogance which will cost him his job a fair few times.

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26 Nov 2014 03:41:48
Indian
This DOF things reminds me couple of months ago when we sold Suarez and expected the 9 incomings to do the job.
Didn't happen. Either he should go out and get a world class manager else stick with him.

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{Ed001's Note - they are nothing like the same thing, we don't need a manager, the club is too big for a manager to cope successfully. Football has moved on.}

Jose would never be a true mentor for him, he's just not that kind of manager and why would he help someone like Rodgers once they were at the helm of one of their big rivals. The mentor should be either at the club or plying his trade in a different league.

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Passion_pride_LFC, the club has not had a DOF in charge since Brendan too over. An experienced DOF would have recognized the team's shortcomings and taken care of player transfers, allowing Brendan to work with what he was given without outside distractions. Instead Brendan collided with a clueless transfer committee and the results were beyond disastrous. The weaknesses of the team were not overcome and Brendan went back to his failed philosophy. Do u really think someone like Cruyf would have let this happen? We need an out and out football man in charge with a head coach dealing with the coaching aspects and would be more than happy to play 2nd in charge. Unfortunately Brendan has to big an ego to play 2nd fiddle and this is clearly hurting the club. FSG should employ a respected football person as DOF and let him choose the head coach of his choice, who does not have ego issues.
Leighbo, Brendan himself said he learnt a lot from Jose when they were at Chelsea together during Jose's first spell there, and did refer to him as his mentor even allowing him to attend the first team coaching sessions so clearly Jose did help out Brendan. Its just that Brendan's big nose and ego got in the way and he learned nothing from the experience.

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26 Nov 2014 05:44:14
Indian

What happens when the DOF and manager has completely different choices over players?

Baldini and AVB??

My strong note is transfer should be off the Managers choice, So does I want a new manager who know exactly what he wants and how he wants the team to play.

Jose, 3 players right into the starting eleven.

CM - Fabrigas
ST - costa
LB - Luis

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{Ed001's Note - the DoF should make the decision and the coach should coach the players he is given. Any other way is a recipe for disaster.}

Passion_pride_LFC, u are comparing Jose and Brendan now? Jose has earned the right to be referred to as a manager of a big club, Brendan has not. Jose knew the deficiencies in his squad and rectified them They needed a striker, LB and a top notch CM and covered those positions in the summer with quality players because of the manager's reputation. Brendan is a nobody who needs to earn his way to the top. Instead he has let all the hype get to his head and ruined our season. Jose does not need a DOF because he knows what he is doing and the owner trusts him.
Baldini and AVB's case cannot be compared. AVB was Levy's choice, Baldini came to Spurs a year later and his ideas simply did not match those of AVB. AVB was not Baldini's choice for manager, it was Levy pulling the strings at Spurs.
Let FSG appoint a reputed football person as DOF and let him choose the manager of his choice.

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26 Nov 2014 06:00:28
Ed01, the system involving a DOF would only work with a young manager willing to share half of the pride.
Someone who is very new to game as any higher pedigree wouldn't work under a DOF?

Bring a DOF and we continue to play under another small name?

You think it would bring an improvement on the pitch?

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{Ed001's Note - Pep works under a DoF. In fact almost all continental managers do. I really don't see the issue here.}

26 Nov 2014 10:20:26
Indian

Buddy, I am not competing Jose to BR in any scale. But then you shouldn't hand over 700million world wide supported one of the biggest brand in football to someone who has been sacked by reading and had a season at Swansea.

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Passion pride, Azpilacueta is Chelsea's starting LB, and a superb one at that. Matic would be a better example.

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Neither do I, Ed as many clubs and big time managers use a DOF. It all depends on his functions and how they are defined. If they are clearly stated and the head coach can work with said DOF hand-in-hand, it will work.

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25 Nov 2014 23:52:03
There is something I can't quite understand, it has been said FSG wanted a DOF but Rodgers wouldn't agree to work that way, it's also been said that due to the transfer commitee some of the buys haven't been Rodgers choice, if both are correct why would Rodgers agree to the latter but not the former, can any of the Eds clarify?

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{Ed001's Note - initially all the people approached were not interested in taking the job under a DoF, so the idea was shelved. Some, such as De Boer, just didn't feel ready to take on the job, others, such as Rodgers and Martinez, just didn't want to work with a DoF. So when he came in, as the top choice of the options available, and no one they wanted willing to work with a DoF, FSG gave way on that particular point.

The transfer committee was forced on him because of his failings in the market. It wasn't an option, he had no say in the matter and his position at the time had been weakened due to his failure to sign the right players and to take the club up the table.}

26 Nov 2014 07:56:56
Giving Brendan the job in the first place was FSG's biggest mistake till date. Not to mention bowing down to his ridiculous demands of wanting complete control over the club's transfer dealings.

Giving so much control to a one season wonder of a manager was always going to end in tears just like Ed002 predicted 2 years ago about Brendan and AVB. I fail to understand where Brendan got so much of his arrogance from after just one decent season with Swansea. LFC does not need power hungry people at the helm, it needs people who will adjust their ideas for the greater good.

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If the Reading Chairman`s comments after he sacked BR are true then he`s always been a stubborn and arrogant man who thinks he`s smarter than he actually is.

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Cheers Ed01

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25 Nov 2014 20:53:24
ed001 If Rodgers goes and a new man comes in, do you think they could persuade Suso to stay? or does it appear his mind is already made up?

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{Ed001's Note - I would only be guessing, as there are so many possible variables involved. It would certainly increase the chances of him staying.}

Ed001 if there is any hope of Suso staying, then Brendan needs to be kicked out in the next couple of weeks before Suso signs a pre contract with Milan in January. It would also take a the new man in charge some time to convince Suso to stay so action needs to be taken as soon as possible.

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26 Nov 2014 03:43:33
Don't think Suso would get another chance. if he isn't getting a game with his preferred pass and move system how would he get now?

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26 Nov 2014 10:20:21
Don't understand all this obsession with Suso, you'r making him out to be world class. In my opinion he was average at best.
Give it a few years and let's see if he turns out to be a super star or just an average player

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