Liverpool Banter Archive November 24 2014

24 Nov 2014 23:08:55
Few things to say here so apologies if the long post annoys people, I hope I make it an interesting read. Anyway.

Does anyone else agree that Gerrard is just, plain and simple, an out and out centre mid? I mean, most formations consist of a CDM and/or a CAM nowadays. Stevie G is simply a CM. Centre. Midfield. Not defensive, not attacking. The middle of midfield. As much as I thought Rodgers' system was working last season, it's quiet simple that our leader doesn't fit into it.
It's harsh to say that there is no place for Gerrard in our team, but there literally IS no place for him.
In my opinion, the system itself isn't bad, it's actually a great system. But with the players we have, regardless of ability, but more so of the positions in which they play in, it doesn't suit LFC.

Let's look at this.
Coutinho, Lallana, Sterling.
All of these perform best in the number 10 role. Now without a doubt these 3 are 3 of our best players, but it's not possible for them all to play in their primary position. Thus, they don't all have a spot (the right one anyway).

Henderson, Allen, Gerrard, Can.
These 4 are Central midfielders. Sometimes we play a system with 2 CM, but they are forced out wide a bit while Gerrard is behind. Not as much space out wide and hendo in particular loves the middle. Again, getting these players into the team means having them play in an uncomfortable position.

I'll end by saying, it's true that when we put our best 11 out on the pitch, realistically, it's not our strongest team.
Think about it.

Thanks

Gerrard can play cm cam, but not cdm mate. he can still pose a threat upfront.

I would play Gerrard in his best position and for 1hr max per game, whenever possible. I would also limit his dead-ball opportunities e.g. Balotelli, Coutinho etc. for free-kicks, Couts and Lallana for corners.

24 Nov 2014 21:35:51
As an older statesman and someone who can remember some of the good old days, recently its been difficult to watch, probably the worst Liverpool displays since the Hodgson days.

For me, every good manager resorts to the same philosophy when times get tough, I always say that you see the true manager when times get tough and the great managers find a way where the poor ones fall by the way side. What makes Ferguson and Morinho worlds apart from the rest is the way they get it right when times get tough. Take last year with Chelsea, Jose got rid of two of the fans favourites in mata and luiz an replaced them with Matic and Costa and hey presto they are a force again.

As far as I can see Rodgers signings have been shambolic, where we only needed to spend big on no more than 3 signings we spend over the odds on nearly a new team, Shocking.

As we are not playing well we should take old whiskey nose philosophy of making sure we don, t lose and concentrate on clean sheets, and forget about winning for a while. We have the best defensive midfielder on the bench in Lucas, we should play him alongside either Gerrard or Henderson, play 5 across midfield and make it difficult for teams to break us down. Rodgers persist in playing what I call luxury players like players Cortinho, Markovic, Lallana, where we need players Like Can, Lucas and Toure.

Persisting on playing this way is going to put Liverpool in a very precarious position.

He needs to change or the club needs to change and change quickly

Evered

BR is not proven and never will be if he continues with his narcassistic habits that his CV cannot back up. The coaches u speak of have ade their mistakes and have smartly learned fro them especially in their youth. BR is young, inexperienced and unproven YET he acts and talks like a veteran. Stupidity at it`s best.

24 Nov 2014 20:44:32
Dear Ed,

Can you tell me why none of my last 3 posts have been published? Two of them took around an hour to type and I've got better things to do with my time if nobody is going to get the chance to read my opinions.

I didn't think there was anything in them that would cause any offence, unless it is not allowed to constructively criticise Rodgers and Gerrard these days.

Join the club. None of mine have either. Seems only the regular poster's are allowed an opinion

{Ed002's Note - I imagine they are on the "Other" page.}

24 Nov 2014 21:00:19
There's a post of yours on the "Other Liverpool Posts" page, it's where a lot of long diatribes on the state of the club (including a few of mine) generally go.

Is that one of the ones you're referring to?

None of mine on either site. To be honest. I'm not too fussed. Not as if it makes any difference to the standard of football we play whether my our posts get moderated or not.

Just maybe its time to support the club rather than criticise all the time, we were all raving last year but fans should be there supporting through everything. Rodgers can turn it around and he will be here long term so let's get behind him and less chucking toys out of our cot.

Here are two tips for you guys, free of charge, if you want your posts published here and not in the other page. First don't post them on match days, after the game - there are a lot of posts on match days, a lot of them, this season anyway, are full of frustration and the Eds tend to send most of them to the other page. Wait for the Monday after. Alternatively just reply to other people's posts. From my experience replies almost always get published here (unless the Eds will try to prove I am wrong and will not let this one in but surely they won't).

24 Nov 2014 20:00:57
More of a broader football myth question, than just LFC. I was wondering if the KOP end statistically saw more LFC goals per minut for us only or if it was equal to whatever rate our opponents have scored at Anfield ?

And with most other teams having a prefered end for the second half at their respective grounds, would there be a similar percentage for them ?

24 Nov 2014 18:50:25
FrankiesaysYNWA & Welshboydave, got a question for you both.

Do we NEED anything from the Ludogorets game on Weds? I'm very interested to hear your reply's but i'm pretty sure i won't get one from either of you.

24 nov 2014 19:04:43
yes we need to win both cl games to progress

24 Nov 2014 19:50:06
I'm not sure if there's some inside joke between you, frankie and dave here but yes we really need to win to progress.

We need to prove that we know how to defend first and foremost and not lose. That is what we need. Probably need a win to be considered possibility of progressing but that is a step too far with our current state

24 Nov 2014 20:09:20
In order to progress from the group, a win is needed.
Why would that not get a response?

Not what you said a few weeks back DAVE! For the other posters, i would urge you to look at what dave and frankie posted after the Madrid game.

I think waro is probably asking the question do we need to progress rather than the do we need to win to progress which are to completely different questions my answer to the first would be no but the only answer to the second is yes because that's pure mathematics where's the first question leaves scope for opinions.

25 Nov 2014 10:20:09
I'm pretty sure all I did was argue we didn't need anything from the second Madrid game mate, as per your claim.
100% certain I didn't say we could afford not to win the Ludogorets game, if we had gained something from the Madrid game perhaps this game would have been seen as less important but that isn't the case is it?

24 Nov 2014 17:47:59
FSG has issued a statement they are backing brendan in the short and long term. So i guess we just need to back the team and hope somehow he sorts us out.

{Ed002's Note - They will act at the right time I am sure.}

The dreaded vote of confidence. . .

Greetings all,

Question for the Eds .

I do see Liverpool's next games up until the Utd game as games we should be getting points from( in an ideal world) . Failure to progress in the champs & continued poor form could turn things toxic quickly.

If he goes, can we get a REALISTIC opinion from the Eds about potential replacements ?

So many names being mentioned on her but how many could or would want to come to us?

I would love Klinsman or Klopp but then I would also like a gold plated sandwich toaster .


My own view is that FSG will not be rushed to appoint a full time boss until ready . So BR is indeed safe for a while regardless of immediate results . Unless the axe has already fallen and its all about the timing of things.

Although he should " beware the Ides of March 6"

{Ed002's Note - RTP.}

Yes ed i guess we just have to be patient and just wait and see how things play out. I just hope brendan wakes up from his brain slumber soon before we lose all confidence whatsoever.

I was initially an advocate of bringing in a caretaker but i can see how that is just not a viable option right now. So brendan please get some help and stop being so stubborn.

Cheers ED, I have been reading the posts but I was just curious as to your view on the names put forward .I guess because you are a wee bit more objective about things .

Vote of confidence = He`s getting the sack

24 Nov 2014 17:12:30
Hi Eds,

Not sure if this has been suggested, but would be a good poll question.

"Do you think Brendan Rodgers should still be our manager in 2015?"

Pretty black and white and I would be interested whether the anti-Brendan groundswell is a general view, or just the prevailing view of those who post regularly.

{Ed002's Note - It is not worth the grief - it is clear what people want. A better pole would be "Would Joey Barton make a good Liverpool manager as a returning legend which everyone craves?}

24 Nov 2014 18:49:18
I look forward to the Joey Barton one then Ed002 ;)

24 Nov 2014 16:38:01
My oh my all the scousers laughing at us mancs some weeks ago and last season!

back were you belong lads below Manchester united.

We may not be playing well and have an awful defence but we are 4th and have some fight, you lot lay down and let little clubs spank your rear end into gifting them goals !

I mean a while back i seen you lot talking about the title this year, you now need to start talking about relegation.

Have fun. .

Although I'm bitter it remains to be seen how is it that lvg has utd in 4th with smalling, blackett and mcnair centre back when we have our best defenders bar sakho fit? It's obvious this is poor management/coaching

It doesn't matter how the tables look. we will always have a laugh at a Manc!

Doesn`t beat whipping you silly 3-0 (could have been 6) at the Toilet w/o breaking a drop of sweat last year. Now that was just hysterical. How`s Falcao (great player) doing? Collecting 300k a week w/o kicking a ball. Great job if you can get it. N BTW, we`re in the CL and you`re not. Class dismissed!

24 Nov 2014 15:59:22
Ed's 001 & 2. I know you guys have implied that Jurgen Klopp is beyond our reach. Is this because you guys definitely know that he doesent want to manage LFC or because he won't leave Dortmund while there floundering in the Budesliga and flying in the Champions league. My friend who's uncle is on the board at Arsenal assures me that this is Wengers last season and that Klopp is almost certain to be the new Manager at the Emirates. He even went as far as saying that preliminary talks have already begun in ernest between klopps asvisors and Arsenal's heirarchy. Please eds can you shed light on this?

{Ed002's Note - You seem to have answered the question already yourself.

If JK leaves Dortmund he has other options he is aware of already - Arsenal being one if Mr Wenger decides to leave - but that is a pretty big IF right now. There is no guarantee Dortmund will let him leave as he is contracted until 2018 and certainly Dortmund are not aware of any preliminary talks that Arsenal have held with anyone.

Additionally with Mr Wenger signing a new contract until 2017 only a few months ago, he would have a case of constructive dismissal against the Arsenal board.

Last week in Monaco there were meetings between a number of clubs who were present. As far as I know Arsenal only met with one other side and that was over a player. Dortmund met with two other clubs to my knowledge - one English and one Spanish.

I suspect your friend's uncle is teasing you both.}

24 Nov 2014 17:03:37
Much obliged by your swift response Ed's 002. I can sleep easy in the knowledge that at least Klopp won't be going to Arsenal anytime soon. I shudder to think how great Arsenal would become with Klopp as their general. I also admire the way you refer to Wenger as Mr Wenger. The man deserves the highest kudos in my eyes as he really is a thoroughly nice human being. I met him once when he was buying a suit and he's a classy guy. Those gooners don't realise what they have. He plays football the way it should be played and is a man of principle. I would love to see him as Liverpool coach. Anyway enough of the Mr Wenger love in, when is De Boer and Cruyff signing on the dotted line eds's 001 and 002? lol

{Ed002's Note - A move to Arsenal remains unlikely in the short-term. I understand Ed001 met AW when he was buying a suit as well. Oddly I live close to the tailor where Ed001 met with him. He was also manager of Monaco for some of the time that we were living there but circumstances with my then wife kept us apart.}

24 Nov 2014 17:52:50
Would this suit maker have his business in Windsor Berkshire by any chance? Are you saying that your ex wife also dated Mr Wenger eds'002 or am I putting 2 & 2 together and making %? By the way on the subject my now girlfriend had a 1 night stand with Pele 25 years ago. Beat that peeps. What a claim to fame that is. lol

{Ed002's Note - Right, Windsor. None of my wives have had any sort of fling with Wenger as far as I know.}

No wonder pele now needs them little blue pills. ;) haha

24 Nov 2014 18:37:46
What a small world hey Ed's 002. That suitmaker is definitely a unique personality and larger than life. Anyway so let me get this straight. We have a minute chance of getting Klopp so that leaves De Boer and Rafa as the two clear favorites. Personally I think FSG need to act now as we still have an outside chance of top 4 given the mediocrity of the contendors this year (barring Chelsea). We know eds 001 feelings about the subject but Eds'002 who do you think will take over from Rogers when he is eventually relieved of his duties. And do you think a DOF will be appointed if so who?

{Ed002's Note - I did not say anything about any favourites.}

24 Nov 2014 19:18:06
No you didn't Eds'002 that was supposition on my part. My apologies didn't mean to infer that you had made these claims. My questions are who do you think will take over from Rogers and will a DOF be appaointed? Would appreciate if you could give me the answers if you are privvy to the information. Many thanks in advance Ed'002.

{Ed002's Note - You need to read the posts. I have explained my view point over and over.}

24 Nov 2014 15:09:05
I hate to say it, actually i'm happy to say it. I told you sooo. I wrote the day after suarez left forget about champions league back to where we was. And all i got was slate from all you fans, not one agreed we me then. Well well well, i bet you all agree with me now that we won't get top 4. Unless something special happens out of nowhere and the owners have the balls to sack Rodgers. Southampton will get top 4 place with chelsea and city and the other will be a fight with arsenal and utd. Forget us we are absolute useless at the moment and i'm not shocked either.

24 Nov 2014 16:19:35
Why are you revelling in our failings this season? Are you sure you support Liverpool, or just your own ego?

24 Nov 2014 16:25:12
You're an absolute disgrace and I find it physically painful (and yes I mean physically) that you call yourself a fan and use the word 'us'.

I really cannot believe u are actually basking in the glory bcoz of the predicament we are in. So what if you were right? There were loads of people who thought Brendan was not up to the task, but he did get 2nd place last season and there would have been an uproar if FSG would have removed him then. He has now h****d up and needs to go but at least we gave him a chance like the club always does. No one is happy to see what is happening and that is clearly nothing to do with Suarez but with the poor coaching and tactics used by Brendan. Feeling happy in any way to see us struggle makes me think u are a manc in disguise who has come to pick up the pieces of real LFC fans on this site.

Very good post .

24 Nov 2014 19:42:55
A true fan knows when his club is in trouble not mask the fact, that 2nd place was anything to celebrate over. I want the best for my club not some medium type team. And i saw this. I wernt happy with 2nd place to be fair i was actully upset, i wanted the title and Rodgers and gerrard messed it up with 3games to go. And instead of showing class and fight against both the teams we screwed up against last year eg chelsea and palace. We do even worst this year with no fight. Don't question my loyalty for my beloved club when instead u should show your angry at the fact we are doing horrific after playing the best football iv seen in years last year to one of the worst within a summer break? i'm discussed

I can't sit here and slate that post tonkz99.
Its what most of us are thinking without saying it fella.
I am very torn at the moment.
I have gone from thinking that the club was on the up under Rodgers to thinking "was it all just Suarez" in the space of about 20 games this season.
Before the game I was still backing the manager to turn it around even with some serious doubts starting to creep in.
That game yesterday changed my thinking because we poorer than any other game this season by far.
I finally started to think that Rodgers had completely lost the plot and its time for a change.
I have slept on that for 24 hours and now I am in the "I don't know what we should do now camp".
I simply do not know what we can do to sort this mess out.
Here are some of the things I do know.
For a start Lovren and Skertel should never play as a pair again.
I would be quite happy to see Skertel sold as soon as possible now.
I have seen enough of him to know he is not the answer.
If he was then we would not have signed 3 CB's and 1 future CB in Llori as there would have been no need.
Glenn Johnson has to be dropped and sold and never played again as far as I am concerned.
Harsh I know but that is how I am feeling about him.
Why play a right back at left back anyway when the left back you bought for 14 million is sat on the bench?
In fact Rodgers yesterday could have played a defense with players he has bought in all positions.
What is wrong with Manquillo Toure Lovren and Moreno as our back 4?
Having watched the current back 4 yesterday there is not a reason on earth why that 4 just mentioned should not be playing in the next game. I know that much!
As poor as we were yesterday, the only bright spark was a goal for Ricky Lambert.
Made up for him, a lad who is desperate to wear the shirt.
Shame his goal came in the car crash of yesterday.
I read a daveybootle post and he mentioned about Rodgers and how he has lost is nerve.
Could not agree more fella ( I did agree as well lad)
Our manager needs to put his faith in players he has signed.
Skertel get rid
Johnson get rid
Lovren we can only hope picks his game up.
The final thing that I do know is that our keeper is a pale imitation of what a goalkeeper should be at this level.
The gulf in class between United's goalkeeper and ours is embarrassing.
He is a good shot stopper and that is it.
He can't kick it, He does not talk to his defense. He does not command his area and most importantly he does not give his defenders any confidence whatsoever that he is a good goalie.
They all know he is crap.
We all know he is crap.
I never thought I'd say this but I actually think Brad Jones is our number 1 keeper at this moment.
Stick him in.
Why not.
Sorry for the rant guys but I do feel better.
In terms of getting rid of Rodgers I have to be honest and say that I don't see a lot out here at the moment to replace him.
If he had not already been to Liverpool and we were just looking purely at managerial records then Rafa wins hands down.
But its the baggage.
De Boer I do not know anything about so he would be a complete unknown but I can't see much else that I would want that we can get.
I read a great article online where the author states that Rodgers is eating a s**t sandwhich and instead of ordering something new from the menu he is burying his head in the sand hoping that somehow he comes up smelling of roses.
I thought that sums it up nicely.

I don`t care what anyone thinks or feels. The fact that we have fans reveling in our failings is as pathetic and disgusting as the mancs and bitters reveling in it. I want BR to change or get the sack BUT I will never wish my tea to lose and then gloat about it. We have hit a new low and frankly, you are not fans. You are mother-loving trolls. #Pathetic!

24 Nov 2014 14:56:36
Since everybody has the knives out I thought I would just bring some stats to the table (everybody loves a good stat!).

Points after twelve games for the premier league era (38 games). Including what position in the league we were after those twelve games and where we eventually finished.

2014/2015 - 14 pts - 12th. Finish?
2013/2014 - 24 pts - 2nd. Finish - 84 pts -2nd
2012/2013 - 15 pts - 11th Finish - 61 pts - 7th
2011/2012 - 22 pts - 6th Finish - 52 pts - 8th
2010/2011 - 16 pts -9th Finish - 58 pts - 6th
2009/2010 - 19 pts - 7th Finish - 63 pts -7th
2008/2009 - 29 pts - 2nd Finish - 86 pts - 2nd
2007/2008 - 24 pts - 4th Finish - 76 pts - 4th
2006/2007 - 17 pts - 9th Finish 68 pts - 3rd
2005/2006 - 22 pts - 7th Finish - 82 pts - 3rd
2004/2005 - 20 pts - 6th Finish - 58 pts - 5th

2003/2004 - 17 pts - 8th. Finish - 60 pts -4th
2002/2003 - 30 pts - 1st Finish - 64 pts - 5th
2001/2002 - 26 pts - 1st Finish - 80 pts - 2nd
2000/2001 - 21 pts -5th Finish - 69 pts - 3rd
1999/2000 - 18 pts - 9th Finish - 67 pts -4th
1998/1999 - 16 pts - 8th Finish - 54 pts - 7th
1997/1998 - 19 pts - 8th Finish - 65 pts - 3rd
1996/1997 - 26 pts - 2nd Finish 68 pts - 4th
1995/1996 - 23 pts - 5th Finish - 71 pts - 3rd


Take into account what points secured 4th place at the end of those seasons

2014/2015 - ?
2013/2014 - Arsenal - 78pts
2012/2013 - Arsenal - 73 pts
2011/2012 - Spurs - 69 pts
2010/2011 - Arsenal - 68 pts
2009/2010 - Spurs - 70pts
2008/2009 - Arsenal - 72 pts
2007/2008 - Liverpool - 76 pts
2006/2007 - Arsenal - 68 pts
2005/2006 - Arsenal - 67 pts
2004/2005 - Everton - 61 pts
2003/2004 - Liverpool - 60 pts
2002/2003 - Chelsea - 67 pts
2001/2002 - Newcastle - 71 pts
2000/2001 - Leeds - 68 pts
1999/2000 - Liverpool - 67 pts
1998/1999 - Leeds - 67 pts
1997/1998 - Chelsea - 63 pts
1996/1997 - Liverpool - 68 pts
1995/1996 - Villa - 63 pts

Now obviously people can take from stats what they like but I just thought it was interesting to look back.

You would say historically 67/71 points would see you in 4th place. There are obviously anomalies in that line of thinking but its there or there about.

Now we have struggled to reach that sort of total when we have had less than 19 points on the bored after the first twelve games. Again the odd exception but there's a decent trend there.

I am not saying that we can't get fourth but I was just wondering what people's expectations are. I was surprised to see that historically for Liverpool (and again there are exceptions) there has not been a dramatic change in the position within the table from 12 games to the end of the season. You are looking at a maximum of 3/4 place differences one way or another by the end of the season.

Judging on what I have seen so far I hope we get into the top four and there is no reason why we can't go a good run if the team gets a new spark (new manager? different debate altogether). But it would also not shock me to see us finish 6th - 8th on total points around the late 50s / early 60s.

Food for thought though.

24 Nov 2014 17:06:02
Wassa, I can't understand why you have got a disagree when you're just sharing facts!!

Got to admit that, based on history, it does look extremely unlikely that we can make 4th, even if we suddenly remember how to play.

It would be quite interesting to go further in the analysis and see what the points difference was between 4th at 12 games and where we were - not entirely sure as to the best method, but I'm sure there are a few statisticians on the site who could suggest a methodology!

Reason being that, purely anecdotally, it does appear that the last couple of seasons have really been wide open in terms of the top four teams. Yes, last season we ended up with the usual suspects, to a degree, with us replacing Man Utd in the top 4, and who knows where we will end up this season.

However, we are 12th now but only 5 points off 4th.

In 2013/14, 12th place (Villa) were 7 points off 4th after 12 games

In 2012/13, 12th place (Newcastle) were 9 points off 4th after 12 games

In 2011/12 12th place (Everton, albeit having played 11 games) were 12 points off 4th (Norwich, having played 12 games were also 12 points off 4th and they were in 11th place)

In 2010/11, Everton (12th) were 6 points off 4th.

In 2009/10, Fulham (12th) were 10 points off 4th

etc. So, over the last 6 seasons (and no doubt more as well, but I can't be bothered to keep going!) the 3 'sectors' of the table (top, middle, bottom) seem to be much more clearly defined at this stage than they are now.

It therefore gives me the, albeit very slight, hope that we could still get towards the top 4. But not with the tactics we are currently employing, and therefore possibly not with the coach we are currently employing

Fair point. Put simply, we won't get 4th. So Lester Roadhog Moran and The Cadillac Cowboys Sherlock. Basically, to stand any chance we need a run that will get us 50 points out of the next 60! However, Chelsea will walk it this year and city will come a strong second. I suspect that the points of the third and fourth places will be lower than previous seasons, but even then we realistically have to win 14 to 15 more games and lose no more.

24 Nov 2014 13:58:10
Eds reds concerning ydays debacle. If you watch gayles goal, skretel is telling lovren to close down the palace player who shot, hit the post, gayles is the player skretel should be following, he doesnt, goal!!! Yet again a basic mistake by the same players!!, we need to get this sorted and quickly. I've said before, if brendan wants to play this way why doesn't he just play three cbs, relive gerrard of this posiztion and free him, or whoever plays the cm playmaker role, to do just that? Also he wants the full backs bombing on, both!, I would have moreno on the left and henderson on the right side, three in the middle, gerrard (can) couthinio, lallana, up top stirling and lambert until sturridge is fit. My way would be the diamond. Its what worked last season as we all have said why change it? Yes suarez went sturridge injured, its difficult!, put stirling up top and give him support with lambert and couthinio, lallana and henderson around him, with can deeper lovren and sakho or tore given another chance. I think we've missed flanagan at right back, he's a proper defender, with moreno on the left it woukd be very balanced. In my opinion, and it is only an opinion, rogers is mixing formations, its unbalanced and wide open!, how long can this go on?. Hopefully not much longer, either rogers changes things or he goes and someone comes in who will do the right thing and play the liverpool way aswell, until then I continue to support OUR club! RED TILL DEAD!!!!.

Skrtl and GJ are two error-proan defenders we have and the fact that he could be responsible for the goal (I will say that we needed to have fouled the alace player who sprung Bolasie) and for the stupid foul that caused the free kick which led to the 3rd goal is NOT surprising because it`s what he does. Yet these two useless players get to play every game while Toure rots on the bench aalong w/ Lucas. A coach needs to start benching players who are screwing up because in the end, he will get the sack therefore, you do whatever you can to stay in a job. He`s not ready to do that because he doesn`t wanna ruffle any feathers. Well, it`s going to be his butt who gets kicked to the rubbish bin and not the players he doesn`t wanna offend. BR is clueless and he is on the brink.

24 Nov 2014 12:21:00
hello eds,

how exactly 2017 is an important year?
what could be the reason for owners to sell their club?

thanks for your patience .

YNWA

{Ed002's Note - I have explained before - search.}

24 Nov 2014 11:07:44
"Brendan Rodgers's position at Liverpool is not under immediate threat despite the club's poor start to the season.

"It is understood that Tom Werner and John W Henry, the co-owners, remain behind their manager although Liverpool have declined to comment.

"Rodgers was voted LMA manager of the year in May after guiding Liverpool to a second-place finish in the Premier League. The club's targets for this season were to finish in the top four and qualify from their Champions League group."

Is this the dreaded vote of confidence? As quoted on the BBC website a few minutes ago.

Hopefully it is the dreaded vote of confidence. Hodgson and KK were kicked out shortly after similar reports surfaced.

Brendan Rodgers will not be our manager when we start next season, who will be, is anyones guess .
its at the end of this season that will see the end of such stupid coaching and tactics, and a new start for LFC .

He`s getting the sack. You can book it!

24 Nov 2014 10:23:12
I take no pleasure at all with this post, but Rodgers now has to go and even dissecting the failed buys and the stubbornness and lack of flexibility regarding tactics, there is something else going on, an underlying issue that I can't put my finger on, has he lost the dressing room? To many disgruntled players fed up with how there being treated? And apart from yesterday, a complete lack of acknowledgement that any of this is his fault or responsibility! Are there other things in his private life that he's taking to work with him? I don't know, but whatever it is, he's brought ALL of this on himself!

I will say this also, the blame must be shared ( and I don't care what any of you say to this point ) by F$G!

When he got the job in the first place I couldn't believe it, a 37 year old who had one decent season with Swansea and who already had on his CV a sacking by Reading getting the job of managing one of ( and I don't care who disagrees with this statement to, because I'm right ) THE BIGGEST and most iconic clubs in WORLD football. They gave him the job in the first place on the back of a thousand word dissertation while ignoring a complete lack of experience of handling big name players and a massive massive club while all the time making him follow a failed transfer policy of buying young inexperienced players on medium level wages who can be moved on at a profit if successful or sold at a minimal loss if they don't work out, but I said that he's here now and I personally will give the same backing and time that was afforded to Kenny ( all of the above points I've made here are fully checkable around the time of his appointment by the way should any of you wish to search for it )!

He has now had three times the time and backing that Kenny received and now my personal support for him has to be looked at.

The blame for this ultimately now stops whether you all like it or not with F$G! They have from day 1 ran a Ferrari on a Skoda budget stuck there head in the sand and hoped it all worked out.

There next move will be one of the most important decisions in our recent history, because Rodgers is now a dead man walking and there next appointment must be thought through and clinically examined before executed, and the next man in must not be forced to follow this failed transfer policy and infrastructure that clearly hasn't and isn't working!

Me personally, I don't think there up to the job, no scratch that, THET ARE NOT UP TO THE JOB! I hope people now wake up to these incompetent clowns and realise while there in charge it's not about maximising success on the pitch, it's about maximising nought's on the bottom of the balance sheet! There not going anywhere soon sadly, so were stuck with them, let's just hope they get some decent advise from somewhere and stop with this minimum outlay for maximum profit attitude.

{Ed002's Note - I am not going to agree with you over the lack of money invested by the owners - the club are massively in debt and the owners tapped out by the fans craving more and more spending on players - and this has put the club in a difficult position with respect to FFP. Perhaps the fans should take some of the blame.

As for the thing you cannot put your finger on. I explained that Rodgers would not be saying so much to the press a couple of weeks ago - and that is down to the arrogance and level of embarrassment he has brought to the club and the reins being tugged on. In the past couple of weeks it has dropped right back and aside from a dig at Balotelli about his night out in London a couple of weeks ago, he has not moved far from the straight and narrow.

I appreciate that you really don't like the owners Waro but they want what is best for the club, and whilst the fans crave Carragher as manager they are far from being that stupid. They will when the time is right (today, tomorrow, March 6?) will make changes to help take the club forward. Those changes will include changes to staff. Come 2017 there is a very good chance that you will get your way and the owners will be making an exit from English football as will others. The driving factor will be financial stability as I have explained.}

24 Nov 2014 10:51:32
Agree on Rodgers, sadly, but disagree on the owners. They may have made a mistake with Rodgers, but I won't criticise them for their financial backing of the club. We've had the money, but a succession of people (Comoli, Dalglish, Rodgers, this committee) have wasted it, by and large.

Also, if anyone can enlighten on March 6, I would appreciate it. I have searched but can't find anything.

Waro i think your hatred for the owners is mis placed. They have given more than enough money to the managers that would allow the team to compete on all fronts. Most of it has gone down the drain and u cannot fault FSG for that. However their lack of football knowledge is really hurting the club. They came with good intentions but again no proper knowledge of the game has cost them big money and the consultants they are using do not seem to be giving accurate info. Their biggest like u said was giving Brendan the job in the first place considering his lack of experience and bowing down to his frivolous demands. Their decision making in terms of choice of managers who both preferred quantity over quality has been poor, but their intention i believe was to help the club win trophies and make it financially self sufficient so they cannot be faulted for that.

24 Nov 2014 11:04:05
The fans want them to spend the money on the right players. You can't spend 25m on lallana and 20m on markovic and complain about the fans. If you're going to spend that kind of money it's better to spend it on players who are actually worth that.

{Ed001's Note - so you are blaming the owners for backing their manager?}

March the 6th is a Friday and exactly one week prior to Friday the 13th.

This week represents the time frame in which it will becone mathematically impossible for us to reach 4th.

Incidentally, in this same week, a solar flare will knock out comms with the international space station which will then be invaded by replicators; an intelligent race of bio mechanical spiders that feed on metal in order to breed or 'replicate'.

It will be a massive week.

24 Nov 2014 11:08:19
Thanks for the comments Ed002, we are at polar opposites with regards our thinking on the owners, but I'm sure you'll find a lot more posters will agree with you and now reply to my original post having your input to make them fell more secure with there points. I'm in total agreement with you on Carragher and this clamour for ex players coming in on coaching contracts purely because they were popular when they played for the club. The best people for the job should be employed regardless of there affinity to Liverpool F.C.

{Ed002's Note - And I hope that they do get the best folks for the job. In the medium term I am sure the owners will make a graceful exit and I am afraid I don't see the targets being met in either the short or medium term. 2017 seems a prime time for owners to be selling and I suspect that will be the time frame for a change in ownership of a number of high-profile English clubs. What I cannot guarantee is what happens next in terms of ownership. The worst case scenario would be institutional ownership - which is very possibly where Manchester United will end up. We are seeing a shift as the likes of City Football Group are looking to build by having one club per continent. Red Bull are taking a different approach but are looking for a lower key club in England. Individuals are less likely due to the costs involved. It is an interesting time coming up.}

Nice one E M

Some 1 is a stargate fan

EMS's is real name is Jack

For me, FSG and the committee should share a huge portion of the blame for a) buying players that the manager doesn't want and b) bringing in young players expecting Rodgers to work miracles with them. Look at Sakho and Balotelli, It's clear that Rodgers didn't want them and that's £30 odd million right there! £20m on Markovic, who's idea was that? What we don't know is who is really responsible for the signings. Clearly the owners do not trust Rodgers in this department that is why we have a committee. Right? Therefore, Rodgers can't be the only one to blame for the poor signings we have made.

What Rodgers is at fault for is his poor management of players. It seems that if Rodgers doesn't want certain players then they are frozen out of the team until they are sold or loaned out. I am certain that the way some players have been treated has had a huge part to play on the morale within the squad. Here is just a few players that have been treated unfairly by Rodgers:

Balotelli - Rodgers publicly claimed he didn't want him.
Sakho - Clearly not in Rodgers plans and is unhappy that he doesn't get a chance.
Agger - Was frozen out by Rodgers until he was sold.
Reina - Forced to leave by Rodgers/FSG. I'm sure his wages had a big part to play.
Suso - On the verge of leaving the club after not being given a chance by Rodgers.
Ilori - Not Rodgers choice and hasn't had a chance.
Alberto - Same as Ilori.
Kelly - Frozen out until sold.
Lucas - Frozen out. Given very little game time.
Toure - Clearly our best centre back, not being given enough playing time.

He should also take full responsibility for his team selections and the system that he uses. He clearly doesn't have the knowledge needed to get the best out of the players we have and all the progress made last season has quickly vanished.

What needs to change?
For me, as much as I wanted to see Rodgers succeed he now has to go. The situation will not improve until we bring in a manager who knows how to handle this kind of situation.

The only problem with sacking the manager though is finding an adequate replacement. Which top manager would be willing to work under the same kind of restrictions that Rodgers has had to work under? I can't think of any. We need to get rid of this transfer committee for a start and the owners need to allow next manager to select his own players even if they are of a higher caliber on higher wages.

Red Rum

I can't be the only one Bob seeing as you got the reference ;) I was just trying to lighten the mood because Waro's post was a bit heavy!

The 6th is the beginning of a 3 day party culminating on my birthday on the 9th.

I thought everyone knew this?

That's Colonel Jack O'Neil to you Kash.

I for one don't need anyones backing or approval to disagree with you waro. just because we don't share the views on the owners does not mean we don't all want the best for our club

24 Nov 2014 13:41:41
I agree with Ed002. The owners are not to blame for the mess we are in on the field. They have back Rodgers to the hilt and he has wasted that money.

I think the owners have done a good job and always backed Rodgers with money when he wants it. Unfortunately, it appears the owners faith has backfired on them and maybe they will make a change sooner rather than later.

24 Nov 2014 13:42:10
After reading several posts by Ed002 on FSG, i actually feel sorry for them. Clearly making profits was not the only motivation for them as they are a sports group and saw reviving LFC as a challenge, but things have just not worked out the way they would have wanted them to.

Their biggest fault was not appointing a top class manager to carry out the club's rebuilding especially with the funds that were poured into the club. Poor spending has probably put paid to any hopes of them seeing LFC as a long term project and like Ed002 says, an improved Anfield with increasing TV revenue should give them an opportunity to get back whatever they invested in the club no matter how little the sum.

Well if you know my avatar, it shows I like my sci fi.

Adrianp74 and evolution, who gave Rodgers the job?

In my mind, FSG have made three major mistakes:

1). Appointing Comolli
2). Appointing Kenny on a permanent deal
3). Appointing Rodgers

Not sure who their advisors are, but perhaps they need to ask different ones for opinions as so far they've been nearly as poor at appointing club staff as Rodgers/the committee have been at finding players.

That said, questioning FSG's financial commitment to the club makes very little sense to me as I'm not sure how much they're expected to spend annually if the £40Mish they've been doing isn't enough.

24 Nov 2014 18:48:42
Hi Ed002'
Could you shed some light on the significance of March 6. You have mentioned it a couple of times ?

Is it to do with cup dates?

24 Nov 2014 09:42:58
To make a change from all the doom and gloom.
Well done on lambert for a pretty good goal yesterday.

Also who is your player of the season so far?
Slim pickings I know but I'm going for Emre Can, not done a lot wrong in the few mins he has had really.

Lallana. Not seen match yesterday, when he's played he's done well and clearly puts in everything he has. I really like can too though

Regardless of his goal, Lambo played well and ran his socks off.

24 Nov 2014 08:09:39
After yesterday's match, I told myself that I will not watch any more Liverpool matches and that I will stop thinking about Liverpool at all. This morning when I woke up, the first thing that popped up in my mind is how do Liverpool improve. Guess there is no escape.

I have been saying this for ages. Lucas has to start, Gerrard is no DM. Drop Lovren, play Sakho (if fit) and Toure. Why is Johnson starting every match?

Really fed up. If we don't win the next CL match, I think BR will be asked to leave.

24 Nov 2014 08:04:23
Hi ed1 not been on here for a while but feel I have to this morning.
I don't know if sacking BR is the answer but I do feel his back room staff need the boot as pascoe an marsh the yes men wouldn't inspire me to put my boots on.
We need to man up with some of our players as some of them are bloody pathetic and an embarrassment to the club.
The signings ee have made need lookin at as the majority are very average to say the least.

{Ed001's Note - so what would you do if it was up to you? Keep BR, but change all the back room staff he chose? Allow him to continue spending money, despite you not having faith in his record?}

We have been poor defensively since he took the job. He's playing with wing backs, but instead of 3 at the back, he plays 2. Suicide if you don't have the firepower up front, an average keeper and a ageing attacking midfielder as your DM. Time for a change now. I am with you Ed01

If BR gets sacked, they all get the sack because BR didn`t spare any of KK`s staff including the Steve Clarke that many still crow over on this forum when he arrived.

24 Nov 2014 03:16:21
Ed(s), did Henrys meeting with Marwan Abedin, have any relevance to Liverpool Football Club? Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - Yes, I explained that at the time.}

Naming rights to fund the revamp of Anfield.

24 Nov 2014 06:16:20
Good day ed's and fellow fans,
From what the media outlet's seems to be thinking and comparing with Ed 001's thoughts, it is clear we are in the process of appointing a new manager (which could be De Boer/ anyone else). My thoughts are what if Rodgers decides to drop non-performers(Stevyg, Johnson and mignolet) and starts playing the football we played last season which could eventually get us win in the coming games that we play than, would there be a change in thoughts for the owners decide to stick with Rodgers?? I hope we get a new manager sooner rather than later because we did not learn to defend in three seasons under Rodgers and we never will win the league! Not a knee jerk reaction but an opinion after watching us live vs Southampton away last season and at Newcastle away this season.
Any opinion ed's and fellow mates

I do not care whether the team goes on a winning streak or not under Brendan. Sooner rather than later, he will go back to his non existent philosophy after the media hype inflates his ego once again. If it takes a manager this long to figure out the basic problems in a team, then he is not fit for purpose.

24 Nov 2014 04:50:43
Hey guys, Chelsea fan here to post my veiws on Liverpool, don't take this as a dig as I respect your club a lot.

First of all, many of you believe that your club made very poor signings., I'll discuss that.
Number one, Lallana, quality signing, great player and your successor to Steven gerrard, English and can be your future captain. Good signing.

Number two, Can. Brilliant signing, Emre Can is one of the most promising young midfielders I've seen, so a great signing.

Rickie Lambert, great purchase, an experienced, Liverpool fan who will give it his all. Good pick up.

Manquillo - what is the point of a two year loan? When you have wisdom out on loan, weird stuff.

Lovren - he is a fantastic centre back, he's not at fault for your defense

Balotelli - hmmm, 16 million was considered cheap, the fact that no other club went for him even at that price shows what he is.

Markovic - clearly isn't ready, good player with a great future but isn't ready, a loan back to benefica is what should have happened.

Moreno - give the guy time, he's qaulity and has a great future. Good buy.

So what is wrong? That problem I believe is Rodgers and Gerrard. Rodgers not playing two upfront when you quite clearly play better with two upfront is pure stupidity and stubbornness. Furthermore, his tactics and team sheets are showing his inexperience and lack of adventure. Thirdly, not playing Lucas when he is your best defensive mid is stupid, has he even played a game this season?

Next, Gerrard. Why he continues to play 'qauterback' or whatever is beyond me. You're team is paying the price for it. Gerrard has always had a lack of tactical awareness and positional play has always been lacking. There's a reason why Rafa Benitez always played him as a second striker or Cam. If you watch his highlights against us this season, you'll see what I mean. I don't know if it's on youtube, you can try, but if not it's on We ain't got no history, search it if interested.

Another problem, in my opinion is selling your best centre back, Agger, and the fact that BR is not playing Sakho is pretty silly. I don't see Skrtel good enough.

So what I would do is this. Play gerrard as a sporadic player, and when he plays, he should be further forward.

--------------Mignolet------------
Manquillo Sakho Lovren Moreno
---------------Lucas---------------
----Henderson-------Allen--------
--------------Sterling---------------
----Lambert-----------Sturridge---

The diamond midfeild is your best bet, and interchanging between sterling striker and gerrard cam is your best hope. Due to Lucas and his limited skills attacking. Allen is included to improve passing range

Appoint one of Me, Rafa Benitez or Frank Do Boer ( Or beilsa) and you'll be fine ;-)

Remember this is my opinion and if you think my veiws are stupid, disagree and explain, remember, it's just great banter ;-).

24 Nov 2014 05:41:21
Thumbs up to you my guy, always how I wanted us to set up this season, with Can taking Allen's place. Great insight too.

Great post Aron.
A friend of mine has always been of the opinion that Liverpool have always played better with Gerrard out of the team.
It's almost like he hinders other players from playing their normal game because of who he is.
Chelsea should walk this league- you have got better and everyone else has got worse.

Your views are almost identical to mine actually.
I would like to see Lallana in that team somewhere though, he's too good to be on the bench.

Great post, agree with you almost on every point. I do think Agger needed to go though, he had slowed down and he deserves a game so better for himself.

In terms of your team I would agree with Famous and Mikey, for me I would put Can in for Allen and I would put Sterling up top with Lallana coming into the midfield.

Long term I would like to see your centre back pairing but it seems to be wishful thinking, short term I would play Sakho and Toure.

24 Nov 2014 11:47:39
Hi Aron, So you think Lallana is a great buy and future captain but he would not get in your team? You sound like you would be just as good a manager as Rodgers so no thanks, Klopp or De Boer, both Championship Winning Managers.

24 Nov 2014 11:48:30
This post does not make sense. You say how good Lallana and Can are then don't put them in the team!
However I agree with a lot of your points. I am a real SG fan but his time has come. He should be used as an impact player similar to Lampard last season.
We have though bought very poorly as we have purchased players fort the future and not present. Instead of buying 7/8 players we needed 3 top quality ones that can fit our system. The best signing we could make now is a new manager who can bring with him a great defensive coach and a talented scout with him.
Patemondo

24 Nov 2014 11:55:11
Absolutely forgot about Lallana!! Definetely swap lambert out and put sterling upfront.

Some of our useless fans who gloat in our failings (you know who you are) ahould learn a thing or two from this post. Very refreshing and illuminating. Bravo, monsieur!

24 Nov 2014 03:09:05
Watching the game last night (australia) i wasnt even angry like normal, just extremely disappointed. With FFP and not being able to spend to fix brendas mistakes i really worry about our future as a big club. The time to attract quality has passed and now we are left waiting/hoping that the potential of our players comes good? bad times and who knows how long for.
Ps i realise its pretty pessimistic but its how i'm left feeling. sorry.

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