24 Mar 2017 16:48:50
Eds don't mean to throw a random name ............
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{Ed002's Note - So why do it? It simply wastes our time - ask about him on the appropriate page.}
Liverpool Banter Archive March 24 2017
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24 Mar 2017 01:03:04
Ed01/ 02 a lot of talk about strikers for this summer window but I was just wondering what is your opinion on Origi? I would play him ahead of Firmino, he is one of my favourite players in the team. For the talent he has shown at his age I think he could be our number 1 striker soon and if given the chance I think he is the 20 goal a season striker we are all shouting for. We have all seen him on form, he is unplayable and a nightmare for defenders and offers the team so much with his pace, strength and ability on the ball. Since he's came he nearly averages a goal every 3 games for us 18 in 61 and he barely gets a start. For a player of his age that's not bad at all and I know he still needs to find his consistency but that will come with age like most strikers. Hope some day he can work and earn the number 9 shirt for us.
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{Ed001's Note - he has not shown anything like enough to push Firmino out of the starting line up. He needs to produce when he comes on as a sub.}
24 Mar 2017 05:27:05
Built like a tank ol origi is, but plays like a mini. Hopeing he griws into the body soon!
24 Mar 2017 07:06:17
He hasn't shown that he can be prolific in front of goal and has failed to really make an impact when coming on as a sub. Firmino is not the most deadly finisher in the world but he can score and he gets himself directly involved in both our attacking play and our play without the ball (through pressing, working hard, etc) - Origi has a long way to go to show himself as being a better option than Firmino.
24 Mar 2017 08:47:40
Hmm a difficult one. Can was offered quite a few opportunities despite a lack of form recently and is now starting to look good. I'd like more opportunities to come Divocks way. The team comes first but if he improves through playing more, then surely it's a win win situation long term.
24 Mar 2017 08:54:07
Needs to stop fixing. his shorts.
Watch.
24 Mar 2017 10:24:49
He's had 'that difficult second season'.
He'll be right next season I'm certain of it. He's got pace, power, a deadly finish and ability in the air. He just needs a good pre-season and a confidence boost.
24 Mar 2017 11:31:16
To be fair he scored for like 5 games in a row then got dropped for the out of form firmino, since then he's been awful.
I thought at the time why has firmino come back in for origi.
Firmino was awful for 2 months, origi was probly think wtf is going on here.
24 Mar 2017 11:39:35
When he came on v city I thought he was injured tbh he couldn't or wouldn't run there was a few times when he should've burst forward but didn't. It was strange normally you can't acuse him of a lack of effort but I'd say that about him that day.
24 Mar 2017 12:50:33
We've seen what he can do when he's on form if you see last season when he was bullying Stoke and Everton BVB defenders (trust me, Mats Hummels wants nothing to do with Origi after he got bullied by him in both BVB games) and scoring goals for fun before his injury. He also had a stop-start pre season which hampered him and he has not recovered since especially cos he has not gotten into a good run of games. He had 3 assists in the last 4 games and was unluck vs Arsenal when he hit the post. He is talented and has all the tools to be a top striker for us. he just needs to put it all together and have some luck with injuries cos his attitude and work ethic is phenomenal.
24 Mar 2017 13:13:01
Glad so many Agree because I am afraid if the club buy another striker if might stifle his development and he will most likely leave.
{Ed002's Note - The club are looking for a striker as I have explained. It is Sturridge that they will look to move on.}
24 Mar 2017 13:33:13
Origi like a few others isn't fit to wear the shirt, he is an average player in an average squad and is lucky he is around in this era.
With our finances we are shopping in the window of 10million to 30 million pound players to finish 4th 5th or 6th we can't compete with the money of Man utd, Chelsea and Man City or pay the wages for the top players. We are in the same mini league as Spurs, Gooners and maybe the Blue noses. At the beginning of this season we were over achieving with the squad we have and are now back where most fans expected at the start of the season.
24 Mar 2017 15:16:48
Origi has all the skills and talent but it's naive to assume he's in the same class as an Agruero, Costa or similar that has had a few years of experience at the top level.
I think he's a great talent that needs 2-3 years IMO and we should look to bring in an experienced striker that can step up right away rather than someone to compete, and give home 1-2 years to mature.
24 Mar 2017 17:19:04
Give the lad a chance he is 21 years old and will have poor patches.
HEs been told from a young age that he is the next big thing but has hit a bit of a wall where things suddenly are not going his way.
It's how he responds to this challenge that will dictate his potential.
At 21 he could be playing for the u23s where he would be head and shoulders above the rest.
For the money we paid for him he is a bargain that will only get better.
24 Mar 2017 17:50:46
Very good point by Ko Lo.
1. He was doing well much to everyone's surprise but was kept out of the team.
2. Can gets chance after chance
3. Firminio isn't a natural scorer at all but is good at pressing, but not great. He still walks into the team.
4. The subs that Klopp makes are very late and they have hardly any chance to make impact.
So unless he plays more he will not improve and he will not get the chances here if we are looking for a replace for Sturrdige and that person would have to be a starter.
so if we a good bid comes in for him where he would get to play day in and out, he wouldn't mind jumping ship.
Having him and not giving him chances is doing him no good at all.
Cheers.
24 Mar 2017 18:18:31
The lad is only 21 yrs old, next season, we should be playing a lot more games than this season, we will need Origi then, and he will improve with more game time .
24 Mar 2017 18:22:13
Klopp likes him - that'll do for me š.
24 Mar 2017 18:42:13
Zimbo, I disagreed with your post by mistake! I also agreed.
24 Mar 2017 22:17:21
Worzal, nothing in your post is true about Origi, the squad, the club or whatever. Reading your post is 1 minute of my life that I will never get back. Pathetic and embarrassing, really.
24 Mar 2017 20:20:32
It's a really difficult situation for Origi i think, a player with so much talent undoubtedly. But he now needs to be a regular starter. Choice is simple he needs to be our no9 all of next season, or he needs a move elsewhere to do that. If he's our starting 9, and he continues to be a hot/ cold player and doesn't get 20+ goals (highly likely given his age, and the usual development time of most top striker's), then we struggle in the league because we don't get enough goals, will fans turn on him shooting down his confidence! Also if he doesn't get 20 goals, his team contribution isn't any way close to what Firmino brings. Maybe he goes on loan a level down from us and could have a bit of a break out like Lukaku did first with West Brom and then Everton, and come back for 18/ 19 season a more developed confident striker. I don't know, but think it's a big call this summer. Personally i don't think he's ready yet (maybe ever), don't see that mental strength/ determination in him at the moment ala Kane/ Costa/ Sanchez. Hope he proves me well and truly wrong. Ed1 do you think Origi will make the grade with us long term? If not for injury do you think Ings would be above him in the pecking order as well?
{Ed001's Note - I expect Origi to make the grade and there is no way of knowing what Ings would have done.}
25 Mar 2017 07:11:29
Origi is like Can. Has everything to succeed in his position but needs something that probably pundits and fans won't allow. time.
He may not become the striker we crave for another 2 or 3 seasons. and to be fair how many strikers his age are running around tearing up the prem hmmmm?
25 Mar 2017 10:24:37
Can't see the similarity to Can to be honest.
Can has had loads of first team opportunity and has shown little improvement.
Origi has had limited opportunities but has shown vast improvement.
25 Mar 2017 12:27:00
Faith. you mean fans and pundits.
25 Mar 2017 18:49:02
That would be patience, faith. It is an almost extinct commodity with today's fans and pundits.
23 Mar 2017 20:10:32
Hello Ed's,
I was wondering what your thoughts are re firmino as the starting striker? I love what he brings to the team and see him as a shoe in for the starting 11 but his scoring rate is not all that. Amazing origi develops or we bring in a striker how do you see that impacted our starting 11?
Thanks.
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{Ed001's Note - I like him there personally, I would rather we worked on adding goals from the team.}
24 Mar 2017 07:10:32
It would depend on the type of striker - a lone forward wouldn't work within our team so it would have to be someone rounded, like Firmino, but with a better finishing ability. Can you think of anyone? Off the top of my head I can't think of any (though my knowledge of world football is limited) .
24 Mar 2017 08:55:10
Whats the point of a striker if he's not. scoring 20 a season?
There are pleanty of strikwrs who worl hard and score.
All his other attributes are pointless if he's not smashin the goals in.
24 Mar 2017 09:30:31
How is winning possession back in the oppositions half pointless? How is harrying and hassling their backline into making mistakes pointless? How is his link up play, flicks and one twos pointless? He makes the other attackers better and provides them with space and opportunities in the final third as well as chipping in with goals! Yes he's not the most clinical but he offers so much more. If anything is pointless it's your ridiculous post.
24 Mar 2017 09:54:25
Seano. The player your talking about is Sanchez he would be perfect for us but there's no chance off that happen.
24 Mar 2017 10:25:29
Disagree Supermane. It's a team game.
24 Mar 2017 11:18:05
Then replace Firmino with someone who could do both. Pressing and Clinical finishing. What is the point in mere pressing if you aren't scoring enough? you could ask anyone to run all day. But composure in front of the goal is a skill set.
24 Mar 2017 11:19:18
He adds so much more than just goals to the team, firstly when his on tune PHil looks world class. I would rather have the team as group scoring more goals than just 1 guy.
24 Mar 2017 13:01:26
And who apart from Sanchez and Suarez (both inaccessible), would that be, Insigne? Can you name one apart from Sanchez and Suarez, cos I can't? As a former striker myself, I can tell you that NO striker can and wants to do what Firmino does. Why? Cos they DON't want to, that's why. Firmino is a physical machine with an unbelievable engine which allows him to hassle, harry and press a backline into submission for 95 mins. I could never do that and still have the calmness to take a chance and score. He brings other players into play and an is involved in a lot of goals that we score from open play even if he is not providing an assist due to his pressing qualities, guile, skill and intelligent movement off the ball.
In fact it is because of all that he does (the things strikers don't want to do) is the reason why he misses chances cos he is lacking that piece mental and physical calmness to take his chances. That is what he should work on, IMO cos he does SO much more and is a big reason why we lead the PL in goals this season and in fact since Klopp took over. I wouldn't trade him for anyone and would instead get goalscorers around him who can profit from the great work he does.
24 Mar 2017 15:25:33
Firmino is a machine and a big part of what a makes the overall system work. By all means we can sub on a finisher like Sturridge, but you're naive to think it won't impact our overall play or that Sturridge is so much more clinical than Firmino. realistically it's a low easier to look clinical if you're always in the 5yrd box as opposed to doing the hard yards elsewhere!
I would take Firmino over most strikers any day, the key is as a team are we clinical enough.
24 Mar 2017 16:13:02
The problem with Firmino isn't him, it's Coutinho.
Our front system is designed for 3 players at the front to all be acting like strikers and chip into that goalscoring figure. Firmino does - he's got 9 goals in the EPL, well spaced along the season, and could well get close to 15. Mane is excelling with 12 - he's definitely on track for 15 or more. But Coutinho only has 6 and even they are mostly front loaded to the early portion of the season. All our front 3 are meant to be consistently making and taking chances to reduce the onus on one 30 goal striker who makes or breaks the season. But Coutinho is not pulling his weight and he's not creating enough chances to justify his lack of goals either. 1 goal and 1 assist in 15 games (13 starts) is not enough from someone in our front 3.
I know some of our players are magnets for criticism and some are just immune from it to large groups of our fans. But right now Firmino is doing the job for us. Coutinho has been a let down since the November international break.
24 Mar 2017 16:28:09
You can get steikers who work hars and get 20 a season.
At cam id take him all day long that's a 7 g 7 a position right them
But the top job needs to be someone whose getting 20. Its so important.
And why is it then fair to put all that goal scoring pressure on thr lw, cam and rw.
Manes on 12 cous on 7 (think) and lallana 8?
It ain't getting much better than that fellas.
Either firmino starts scoring or we get someone who will.
24 Mar 2017 17:20:08
We need someone who works hard but also scores.
Why does everyone assume its one or the othet my point eas goals come first but he still needs to work hard.
But working hard isn't goood enougj with the goals.
Simples.
Play him in place of lallana if you want his work rate but gettint a goal machine uo there will see us better placed to succeed
I want it to be firmino btw but he's got to start scoring.
24 Mar 2017 17:13:05
Takes nothing away from Firmino, N Red. Massively respect and appreciate his work rate. Keeping that in mind He need to add goals and that is what you expect from anyone who leads the side up front. I have not seen a team winning the league without a bloody goal scoring machine up front. Have you ever?
The second para you are taking is called composure which is actually a skill set among players especially those who play up front. Wether you are in one on one or outside the 6 yard box. Composure is one of the most important skill for any striker.
If Firmino doesn't add goals to his kitty then all his off the ball works goes in vain. Goals wins you matches!
24 Mar 2017 20:21:17
Some talk about Sanchez. Ā£40.000.001 bid for him should do it.
24 Mar 2017 22:27:17
Insigne, You are not looking at things wholistically or taking in the bigger picture. Klopp has a system that ensures goals through out the team including the striker which is why we lead the PL in goals scored since Klopp took us over. This is why he has surrounded Firmino with players who can score goals to the point that even our CB's are pretty lethal as well. I agree that Firmino needs to add goals to his game BUT Klopp does not require him to do that first and foremost.
He wants him to press the backline into submission and if we can nick the ball that high up the pitch, we can create chances and score, something we have no issues doing as that is the fundamental point of the Gegen -press. The only two players I can think of that would work in our system better than Firmion goals-wise, is Sanchez and Suarez due to their beastly fitness, work ethic and unrivaled will to win. If you know of any other, please let us know. Cos we can't get any of those, we should add more goals to the team while helping Firmino be more clinical.
25 Mar 2017 00:28:08
N Red
Firmino Presses which the whole world agrees and accept. Off the ball he works very hard.
Firmino lacks composure infront of the goal and doesn't score anywhere near to be consider as a top striker.
Now it's up to you what is more important.
I am not sure what you are talking about the system. There are some top class strikers out there who would score in abundance if you play to their strength. From Harry Kane to Costa all scores plenty.
It would be extreamly naive to declare there are only two players in Europe l who would fit our system.
Would a striker like Robbie Fowler or Michel Owen fit our system?
25 Mar 2017 12:28:19
1/ Striker who works hard and scores 20
2/ Striker who works harder but scores 8
You pick.
Agree for the choic3 number 1 and disagree for choice number 2.
25 Mar 2017 13:12:47
Every modern day striker works hard irrespective of any system. Harry Kane and Costa works their socks off for their team! There are only a few Berbatov's out there!
25 Mar 2017 19:03:26
Harry/Insigne, not once did I say that Firmino is a top striker so stop talking porkies, please. Does he need to add goals to his game? Absolutely but you fail AGAIN, to see the issue as a sytem-r-oriented thing. The system we play under Klopp guarantees goals all over the shop which is why we lead the PL in goals this season and since Klopp took over. That is a fact that you conveniently ingnore. Klopp's ethos requires this and if you can't understand that then that is your problem.
"Every modern striker needs to work hard irrespective of system". If that was the case, why is Studge burning a hole on the bench? Why is Aguero no longer Pep's cup of tea? This is cos both Klopp and Klopp ironically, play a press system that requires the striker to be the first line of defence all the time first and foremost and if you can't do that, then you won't play. Go watch Barcelona under Pep where Messi, and Pedro and the rest would hunt the ball down like hounds as soon as they lose it.
As for Costa or Kane, I wouldn't want them here as they don't do enough in Klopp's system as they don't do enough off the ball that a Sanchez or Suarez does. I love Firmino the way he plays and if we can't get striker who can do what he can do and of course score goals, we keep him and help him be more clinical.
25 Mar 2017 21:20:12
Saw an interesting stat today on the Firmino subject. So far this season he has been given none of our 7 penalties to take. Kane has scored 4, Aguero scored 3, Sanchez scored 2, Zlatan has scored 1. If Firmino has taken even half our penalties (which is how many roughly everyone else has had) he'd be equal with Augero for goals scored, 8th in the golden boot race and with more assists than 5 of the 8 above them. Sounds like a pretty effective forward to me!
25 Mar 2017 23:21:43
N Red
Let's keep it simple. I would want a real striker replacing Firmino up top in the summer who scores 20 a season. Let the club picks the right player who PRESS and fit in with our current system. He shouldn't be anymore False No.9. A real striker. There are a lot of strikers according to me who will not only fit in with our system but also would regularly scores 15 goals a season.
Sanchez is not a striker. He is an actual winger from his days at Udinese playing up top at Arsenal coz Giroud doesn't score enough and Wenger doesn't trust Wellbeck or Perez enough.