Liverpool Banter Archive June 24 2017

 

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24 Jun 2017 20:21:27
I'll be really disappointed if we sign the Ox. Gives away possession far too often and his injury record is very poor.
Do we really need him if we have Hendo, Milly, Can and Gini?
Use the money to buy a top left back instead. Please.

For banter purposes, what are you all making of this new CEOs moves on twitter?

Great interaction with the fans OR lack of professionalism?

Believable8 Unbelievable7

24 Jun 2017 20:44:45
Think as long as Peter Mooresvdoesn't go Trump on us it's fine. Liked the way he stood up to the moron who was awful to JWH's missus.


24 Jun 2017 21:58:30
Its one of those peiple are calling a steal because of the price.

But its still millions, on someone who barely plays and isn't thay much better than what we have if he is even better than what we have.

We couls have mendy.


25 Jun 2017 05:00:33
Oxlade in a Klopp team would surprised many. Same negative crap being said about Oxlade as was said about Wijnaldum.


25 Jun 2017 06:10:49
i remember a lot being said about wijnaldums attitude rather than ability or injury record.


{Ed001's Note - spot on mate, no one questioned his ability or injury record. It was his attitude that was in question. Wijnaldum had been seen as a big star of the future as a kid coming through the ranks, but questions were asked over why he had never made the most of his talent.}

25 Jun 2017 06:15:29
I actually think he'll be fine - gives us a decent experienced winger with pace to sub - but frankly we just don't need him as much as we need to fix the defence, and think it'll hurt the development of a few other youngsters who are capable of playing wide too like Origi, Solanke, Ojo.


24 Jun 2017 20:14:05
Hi Eds, thanks for all the work you out in, especially this time of year. I just wondered if we do sign Kieta where would that leave Grujic, would it effect him directly in terms of pecking order or are they different type of midfield players?

Many thanks

Henlow red.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - we won't be signing him unless something drastically changes.}

24 Jun 2017 19:02:37
Ed001. Do you think given wini performance in midfield last season with his strength, work rate, tackling and pace that klopp may consider him as a defensive type midfielder?

Believable1 Unbelievable1

{Ed001's Note - he did often fill in there for us, but I don't believe Klopp sees that as anything more than to fill a gap, as it restricts Wijnaldum too much.}

24 Jun 2017 18:33:06
I read a lot of posts about a 20 goal a season striker. I would rather we spend the money on 2 quality full backs. Many times last season we created loads of space for our full backs only for millner to stop and turn back on his right allowing all the defenders to get back into position and we have to start building all over again. As for clyne less said the better. I think with 2 quality full backs last season we would have scored 20 goals more. Defenders has to be priority.

Believable6 Unbelievable3

24 Jun 2017 19:08:30
Totally agree, I would be more than happy if we didn't sign any more attacking players, defence cost us massively last season we need a top left back and centre back, if being quoted as having 130mil to spend this year is correct then let's go and spend 100 on these 2 potions.
Job done.


24 Jun 2017 19:15:58
I think we can live with Clyne for another season. A LB and CB should be the priority now IMO.


24 Jun 2017 19:21:06
Thank Heavens that someone else just said what I have been posting for weeks now. Those asking for a 20 goal striker (as if that will automatically solve our FB issues and make Clyne and Milner suddenly stop being awful offensively) are relentlessly barking up the wrong tree. Goals are NOT our problem and never have been since Klopp got here. We have other pressing issues right now including adding depth to the team as well as improving the team overall.

We need to stop conceding silly goals, stop dropping points from winning positions (18 points dropped from winning positions last season, worst in the PL) and improve our finishing cos Firmino can definitely be helped to improve his touch and composure in front of goal which will only help him.


24 Jun 2017 19:26:40
As long as we sign the right ones and don't settle for mediocrity.


24 Jun 2017 20:47:15
So in January and February scoring goals wasn't a problem? I think we scored 5 in 2 months, unfortunately your always going to get a period when goals dry up from midfield and that's when your Costa's or aguero or Kane come up with the goods, I totally agree we need full backs and a cb, but we also need a class striker, what team wins trophies without one?


24 Jun 2017 22:05:49
We had problems all over the shop in Jan and Feb and a top striker would not have helped in any way especially with the horrible way we were playing and struggling with injuries, Port red. You have to look at the whole picture instead of just nitpicking to fit your rhetoric.


24 Jun 2017 22:14:34
I completely agree Port red but the majority disagree! Apparently the combined total of about 20 league goals managed by Firmino, Origi, Sturridge and Ings is acceptable. I am absolutely 100% in agreement that our full back areas are priority. In fact our weak links for me are in a priority order of LB, RB, CB, GK and then ST. It is obvious that we need to prioritise at the back, but I cannot get me head around how many people are oblivious to our lack of a goal scorer. I think even all the Ed's except Ed025 are against us signing a striker. I'm not saying people who disagree are necessarily wrong. Perhaps we are wrong, that is how opinions go I suppose. But for me, if your top scorer is on 14, then you will never win the league.


24 Jun 2017 22:41:37
Except when Chelsea won the league, the year we finished second?

Tel me MK, how many goals did their top scorer get?


24 Jun 2017 22:53:09
We have signed a striker.
If we sign anymore strikers then we have to move one on.
The window isn't open yet.

Calm down 😎.


24 Jun 2017 23:14:05
Puzzled red the last time we finished 2ND, city won the league and their top goal scorer aguero had 28 goals followed by yaya on 20, you really a bit puzzled?


24 Jun 2017 23:47:17
Or when Chelsea won the league in 14/ 15 Costa hit 20 goals, or in 09/ 10 drogba had 29, anyone notice a pattern? But no we don't need a striker, and we'll be talking bout the same things next summer, how's that for knitpicking to suit my rhetoric?


25 Jun 2017 00:58:48
It's scary to see how people have short memories. In our last few games we were badly struggling against midtable teams. Even finishing in top 4 was in jeopardy until sturridge came and bailed us

everyone was saying here we needed out and out striker who could put half chances in. Despite fermino's work rate he lacks strikers instinct which is crucial against deep defending teams where you need to put half chances in.


25 Jun 2017 01:04:39
I must admit I was one of those posters who mentioned about us needing a 20+ goal scorer. And I do stick by my post as I did say left back and centre back need to be a priority first. But also our strikers apart from firminho who isn't an actual out and out striker didn't perform too well last year I get there were injuries and what not but 20 goals between 4 strikers isn't too good and adding a striker who is reliable and consistent in front of goal and suits klopps style I think would be really important this season and may just give us that extra push. Especially with more games to play. Just my opinion anyway I just think we've always been known to have quality strikers and right now we lack one and not obtaining one may come back to bite us.


25 Jun 2017 07:52:11
The reason why we struggled against lesser teams was the midfield gets too cramped and we don't have full backs that we can use properly. Instead of them getting the ball moving quickly they either slow the play down or cut in allowing the opponents to get all their players back into position so we can't break them down. 2 competent full back would solve that problem to a great extent. And studge is looking to be much fitter who could be a 20 goal striker. So we don't need another.


24 Jun 2017 18:06:16
It is reported: “The Premier League has new cost control measures, coming into force this summer. The rules say that a club’s wage bill should not be more than £7m more than it was in 2016-17, or £19m more than from the 2012-13 season.

VVd at £200k a week surely not going to be possible then seeing that Can is up for a pay rise and the addition of Salah?

Unless Sakho, Moreno and Markovic go then we will not be in a position to add anymore players at this point.

Believable0 Unbelievable4

24 Jun 2017 18:10:06
You're not allowed to use TV money. but extra income earned from commercial, ticket sales, etc is ok.


24 Jun 2017 19:09:33
Thats ridiculous.

So where does the tv money go?

Surely not back in The owners pockets.

Fans pay that money to watch the best players play for their club.

Its the players who have the talent and who create the magic that sells the shirts to the fans who pay for the subscription tv.

Not the chairman.

The F A is a joke.


24 Jun 2017 22:55:11
The TV money should go into improving facilities at grounds - like facilities for disabled fans and it should also go into reducing ticket prices.
I'm sick of agents pockets tens of millions every year and fans getting ripped off every week. There needs to be a balance struck.


25 Jun 2017 00:46:57
I agree about the agents that they should get a set fee for wach transfer set by uefa etc. The rest of their cash should come out of the olayers wages. Not these mad % payments.

The academy should be funded from this money
A percentage should also be for facility improvements and community projects.
But the club has to be able to buy the best quality players possible as an obligation to the fans (best quality doesn't necessarily mean most expensive) to give the club the best chance to win trophies.

The money quoted for and paid to players these days is obscene but the top players are like modern day film stars and deserve to be paid for their talent.


24 Jun 2017 18:24:16
Ed002, what do the new rules actually mean in layman terms?


{Ed002's Note - That you cannot significantly increase the cost of wages across the playing staff and whatever increase there is has to come from income generated by the club rather than windfall income.}

24 Jun 2017 17:05:49
Ed001 is there Any news with Flannos progressions mate? Is he definitely leaving or will he be given a chance?

Believable0 Unbelievable2

{Ed001's Note - he is expected to go.}

24 Jun 2017 17:03:51
Surely the backline is where we should be putting all our resources in LB RB and CB and if Lucas leaves a CDM and that should be our lot its not rocket science if you've got the best attack and best defence then your either champions or if very unfortunate runners up!

Believable2 Unbelievable2

24 Jun 2017 19:29:21
That would be the way to go, Notso but some on here are just getting themselves wet over some 20 goal striker that should come in to bolster an area we don't need help in instead of focusing on the defence where we give up silly goals and crumble under pressure (18 points from winning positions last season) . Fix the defence, cut out the silly goals and hold on to leads when under pressure and you will either win the PL or get nail-bitingly close.


25 Jun 2017 10:08:16
Obviously Brusselsred there are some fans on here who don't seem to think there is much wrong with our defence pity they couldn't explain to us why mate!


24 Jun 2017 17:03:21
Hello evryone hope all is well, Eds I've just been told oxlade chamberlain is wanted by klopp for a central midfield role but also cover for the wing, can u let us know if uve heard anything on this? Thanks in advance for any post or reply Eds.

Believable1 Unbelievable3

{Ed001's Note - it is for midfield he wants him but his ability to play on the wing in need is a bonus, yes.}

24 Jun 2017 17:14:02
Have we shown any interest in max meyer? He also is midfield and can play on wing and if sky sports news is to be believed could be considerably less than the ox.


{Ed001's Note - not that I know of.}

24 Jun 2017 17:18:24
Thanks again Ed001,the transfer makes a lot more sense to me now.


24 Jun 2017 17:23:29
Klopp can't have watched the humpings that Arsenal got when Ox played in centre midfield. Or the two recent internationals where he made Scotland look world class and was non existent against France. The lad just doesn't have the intelligence to play in centre midfield.


24 Jun 2017 17:31:09
Thanks ed001. Think meyer has real potential. Keep forgetting the ox is still only 23 could have his best years under klopps guidance and tutelage.


24 Jun 2017 17:49:58
You know what I'm sick of the crap some people spout. Yes I don't rate ox but I'm not here slagging the lad off. What if klopp seen something in him that's vital to our new look midfield next season? Who here thought wini was gunna come and play central and be one of our best players? Maybe klopp feels we need more energy as a holding mid/ utility player to cover couts moving deeper? Who knows just getting tyred of reading this now. There is a reason these blokes get paid so much money cos they have the expertise to see what we don't. Before I get slatted everybody's entitled to an opinion and I too don't believe ox is the right move just a point about the negativity on here is getting beyond a joke.


24 Jun 2017 18:17:17
When you say 'vital' to our midfield Mick, I'm not sure what Ox brings to the table that is so vital, he's just not very good and every time he's played in the middle for Arsenal or England he has been terrible, simply because he's just not a centre midfield player, the man lacks the skills and intelligence to play there and you can't make silk purse out of a sows ear. As for negativity, given that we've blown our chances of getting a top class central defender and instead of going for a proper top class centre midfielder like Nany Keita, we're going for a half fit square peg for a round hole and then we wonder why teams can just wander through our midfield at will. There are simply no positives to signing Oxlade Chamberlain.


24 Jun 2017 18:27:08
Hanson it's not that we're not going for Keita, he was our number 1 target. It's that his club have no intentions of selling him and he isn't no desperate to move away. We can't just buy a player because we want him, if only it was that simple!


24 Jun 2017 18:33:37
Well said Mick. Its getting boring innit.


24 Jun 2017 19:07:30
Another issue with signing the Ox is that he will want fairly big wages, and if it doesn't work out for him at LFC, moving him on will be a little difficult as others may not be able to match his wages, and those who can probably wouldn't want him.

Example, if James Milner is to be moved on this window, who can afford his wages since the teams who can wouldn't want him, and that is with Milner playing fairly well!


24 Jun 2017 19:17:01
By the same token TIA19 you if you can't get the most capable player for the job, then don't then just go and waste money on a player patently not up to the job because its just repeating the same mistakes over and over again.


24 Jun 2017 19:35:13
Hansen do you not think we've moved on from them days?

We have a quality manager making the right signings. He knows what he's doing.

Do you know who he wants to sign? What his plans are for that player? Probably not. So wait til the season gets going with all the cogs in place and I'm telling you now you won't be disappointed.


24 Jun 2017 19:36:26
No, Alfi and Mick. What is getting boring is people slagging off others for having a different opinion than theirs. Currently, Ox is not good enough in any position he plays in and would start ahead of even Grujic in CM as he is that poor, end of.

Now, if Klopp wants to sign him cos he thinks he can make him better (something Klopp is universally admired for) then that is a separate issue and if he comes, i will be skeptical YET support him cos in the end, my opinion does not matter cos if Ox or any player does well, LFC will do well. Two things can be right at the same time. I know it's wierd but true.


24 Jun 2017 20:35:30
Ox would certainly start over Grujic, I cheered the signing of Gini and if Moreno is worth 15 million Ox is fine at 25.


24 Jun 2017 22:06:56
Amerigo, not in a million years but that's my opinion.


24 Jun 2017 22:50:38
Even when your opinion is the same as Micks and mine? Thing that gets boring is arguing with your own fans all the time.
you don't need rival fans anymore you get enough stick off your own.
So wind your neck in and show each other and the club some respect. This is one thing that needs to change to take us to the next level more than any signing.

Togetherness in everything Liverpool FC

Do you disagree with that?


24 Jun 2017 22:59:29
I agree with Mick, Alfie AND Brussels.

Negativity against potential signings is getting beyond a joke. Ok, you don't rate the Ox, we get it, we don't need daily reminders.
Secondly people keep whinging that others don't agree with their assessments of players.
Guess what? Not everyone has the same view and sometimes you just have to accept that truth. 🤝.


25 Jun 2017 02:10:35
100% correct in my OPINION.


24 Jun 2017 16:51:57
Hi ed1, on another post you said buying salah would allow us to switch mane to left wing.

Is that his best position?

Sorry if I've miss quoted you.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

{Ed001's Note - it is the position he used to play most of the time before arriving, so I assume so.}

24 Jun 2017 17:01:56
Would allow them both the option of coming in on their strong foot.

Thank you for quick reply.


24 Jun 2017 17:50:09
I think people get a bit fixed on position. I don't think sticking rigidly to each position is how we play. Flexibility is a key. If Mane and Salah switch and move constantly, with their pace they will cause all defenders enormous problems.


24 Jun 2017 19:38:20
Exactly Squirsey. It really doesn't matter where they line up on the team sheet as our front three are constantly moving and interchanging cos they are very interchangeable so people should not be too hung up on who plays where in our front three during games.


24 Jun 2017 16:15:21
Cresswell was quality until he got injured. I think he could easily show his best form at liverpool playing under better players, I just don't see anyone else who we can sign for left back due to over priced mendy etc. Wouldn't mind Chilwell but think that's out the question now. Cannot believe we haven't sent any scouts to the u21 tournament shocking.

Believable0 Unbelievable6

24 Jun 2017 17:01:52
Why wouldn't we have scouts at the u21s?


24 Jun 2017 17:02:34
We'll scout the U21s when they next play at St Mary's.


24 Jun 2017 16:05:59
Why don't liverpool buy kieran gibbs. arsenal have valued him at 15 mill.15mill for moreno . not a bad replacement.

Believable0 Unbelievable12

{Ed001's Note - because he is crap maybe?}

24 Jun 2017 16:39:12
I'd rather stick with Milner and keep £15 in the pocket.


24 Jun 2017 16:54:54
Hansens Scar, Gibbs may be c**p but he is still worth more than the $15 in your pocket.


24 Jun 2017 17:08:32
I'm being generous when I say £15. A packet of half eaten peanuts and a scotch egg is Gibbs actual market value.


24 Jun 2017 19:40:35
Gibbs? For 15m? I wouldn't want him if he was going to play for us for free. Another poor, stagnating Arsenal player who if he were not English, would not even be a footballer as no soul would take a chance on him, he is that awful.


24 Jun 2017 15:43:29
Ed001 or Ed002, Do you think that if Ings or Origi left on loan, there would be reason to recruit a new forward? Or do you think we should leave it as it is this season no matter what? Appreciate your opinion. I just worry if Ings goes on loan, Sturridge continues his injury woes and Origi doesn't kick on, we would be left short upfront if Firmino hits a 'dry spell'. I'm obviously hoping Sturridge reminds everyone of how good he is again next season, but I can't help but feel his legs haven't come back as fast since the injuries.
Cheers.

Believable0 Unbelievable2

{Ed001's Note - have you forgotten Solanke?}

24 Jun 2017 18:08:05
I didn't mention Solanke because everything I've read on here has suggested he will be used in the U23s and is for the future, it would be like me mentioning Rhian Brewster. I'm more talking about the senior players. I'll rephrase, Do you think if either Ings or origi goes on loan, and solanke is deemed too soon for say a champions league away day, do you think there would be reason to recruit another forward? I'd much rather recruit from within but I'd hate to see ourselves short in options due to a loan (Andy Carroll springs to mind)


{Ed001's Note - no.}

24 Jun 2017 18:28:49
Thanks, appreciate the opinion.


{Ed001's Note - welcome.}

24 Jun 2017 15:14:00
Eds do you think we will be able to pursuade Rbl into selling Kieta, given they don't need the cash? Be tough one imo?

Believable0 Unbelievable2

{Ed001's Note - they will only sell players they don't want or that force their way out.}

24 Jun 2017 15:42:51
Does the player even want to leave?


24 Jun 2017 16:32:58
No he doesn't want to leave. I guess that's that then ed.


24 Jun 2017 16:56:19
We'll have to get Aldo on the case then, telling him to go on strike.


24 Jun 2017 19:42:11
Even Aldo will have a hard time convincing a player who does not want to leave his club regardless of the fee.


25 Jun 2017 02:39:37
Does anyone else think that Aldo talking like that may have been unofficially sanctioned by our Elite Tapping Up Department?

Dark forces may be up to no good again.


24 Jun 2017 14:37:14
Eds Md fellow reds, here's a Saturday just for fun to break up the transfer monotony. In the past 10+ years we've seen countless young players come through the club, all full of promise and what should be in their prime development. Out of those, who stands out as player that was either completely mismanaged or wasn't given enough time that you really thought could have been great. I'm talking players like ngog, markovic, babel, etc etc. (Let's ignore those that had a career hampering injury, that's a completely separate list! )

Believable0 Unbelievable3

24 Jun 2017 15:46:18
Tough one really I'd say biggest disappointments in sense I really wanted them to succeed would include.

R. Babel.
Suso.
Ilori.
Flannaghan.
S. Carson.


24 Jun 2017 16:02:37
Wanting them to make it: Mellor and Flanagan. Wanted Mellor to follow in the footsteps of Rush, Fowler and Owen so bad.

Believing in them: Markovic and Moreno. Still can't figure out how Moreno hasn't been able to learn how to defend properly. It's not rocket science, you know.


24 Jun 2017 16:04:44
Suso for me.


24 Jun 2017 16:07:02
Flanagan hands down, hopefully he's working hard over the summer to catch up and maybe get a look in pre season, big maybe though.


24 Jun 2017 16:20:04
Ilori and Suso

Kipper maybe as well.


24 Jun 2017 16:21:14
Not sure if he counts but i really thought joao teixiera would of done a lot better with us. Im sure i remembwr he played for the sporting team that made us look a bit silly in the youth european competition!


25 Jun 2017 02:41:36
Jack Dunn and if we are not careful OJO.


24 Jun 2017 14:08:14
Does anyone have the faintest clue why Klopp wants to sign the OX? We are already over loaded with attacking and midfield players and he is no improvement on what we already have.
Or Klopp may just do the impossible and actually sign OX to play as our new RB. It may be a masterstroke or an absolute disaster on Klopp's part if that actually is the plan.

Believable2 Unbelievable5

24 Jun 2017 14:20:57
Rb is the only position I would want ox in. He doesn't get ahead of any of our other players and he's not an impact sub. Seems like a risky gamble that could not work out at all. For 25 million, we should look elsewhere.


24 Jun 2017 14:25:18
I wouldn't want him at RB, it's not like Milner where you have a player who has the application and intelligence to be able to play somewhere else, Ox just doesn't have it.


24 Jun 2017 14:30:21
That's my point though Hansen's. I don't even want him there and that's the only place I'd be 'c' with him. For me, the best place for ox is at the Emirates, sucking up their wages and sitting on their bench.


24 Jun 2017 14:41:31
I think you nailed it there Ohio!


24 Jun 2017 15:05:40
A failed winger who can't even play rb for 25 mil no thanks.


24 Jun 2017 15:19:44
Tadic for half the price, this man is really good, doesn't have an injury problem, and we could get a discount off him from Southampton .


24 Jun 2017 15:50:40
I personally think he makes a decent impact sub, look what he did when he came on against Scotland. People also had similar remarks about GiGi. In a midfield three disciplined by Klopp, I think he could do a similar job to the lads we have. I'd be surprised if he became a starter but him and Grujic as impact subs, yes please. And it also means if one of our wingers get an injury we have cover there. Don't judge the Ox based on wengers development of him!


24 Jun 2017 17:10:15
I'm judging Ox on (1) premier league (2) champ league (3) England matches. None of which I've ever been impressed by.


24 Jun 2017 19:47:16
TIA, the OX is pants, end of story and no one cares what he did in one game for an England team that almost bottled it vs Scotland. He would play ahead of any of our first 11 and a few of f our current bench so again, what is he doing here for 25m?

Now if Klopp thinks he can get him going and firing then that is a separate issue and we will have to trust Klopp on this one BUT at the moment? The guy won't improve us in any way apart from him sitting in the stands.


25 Jun 2017 03:02:56
Can or should a 23 year old be labled a failure? that's wrong in my opinion.

We have lads playing at the academy who are 23 and are still tryibg to break intoo rhe first team squad.

Ox has years of imrovement ahead of him UNDER THE RIGHT COACH. and already has great experience.
at the highest level.

I'd say things have gone stale for him at Arsenal and move may help in his development.

Whether or not its to us, Klopp only knows.
But in my opinion he would be potentially a great signing which the club would never lose money on. Plus he's English.


24 Jun 2017 13:02:40
To win the league we need a LB, CB, striker and would like a better GK.
We should go for Aguero in my opinion if rumours are true he could go for 60 mil. Be worth breaking the bank as he is world class.

Just my opinion but be happy with whoever the boss chooses.

Believable4 Unbelievable15

24 Jun 2017 14:06:35
Surely we need a RB and a coupale midfielders too? We're not playing futsal our there.!


24 Jun 2017 14:07:16
Unfortunately, there's a big difference between who the boss chooses and who we actually get. In an ideal world I'm sure Klopp would want VVD, Mendy and Keita, but sadly I don't think we'll get any of those.


24 Jun 2017 14:07:59
Ken burnt his bridges by choosing City instead of us.


24 Jun 2017 15:06:26
Mendy. Cyprian/ keita/ nzonzi/ obiang. Vvd/ koulibaly/ gibbo

Sorted.


24 Jun 2017 15:55:01
Proven prem winner and a great player. Everyone always wants the exotic foreign player with no prem experience. Doesn't always work. Seen many fail.


24 Jun 2017 16:05:25
cyprian tore his acl in march so he won't be available for a transfer.


24 Jun 2017 12:34:32
A question for Ed001 please. I remember Souness the player, and I remember Souness the manager and I think for the people who only remember him as a manager tend to get the wrong impression about what he played a part in for our club. Now I know his time as manager wasn't the greatest, but if I remember correctly he took over an aging squad and hadn't the new law in regards to only having 3 foreign players in your team, which took in Irish players? Think he sold Staunton and kept David burrows for this reason. Thought he signed a few decent players, Mark Wright and Saunders weren't bad, Rob Jones probably being the stand out player he bought. I know he bought Paul Stewart which was the shocker. I think it was always going to be a job following shanks, Paisley, Fagan and Dalglish. Do you feEl he was as bad for the club as some see him?

Believable1 Unbelievable2

{Ed001's Note - no, he wasn't quite as bad as it seemed, he just tried to do everything all at once when he first came in. However the football was dire, Saunders, Stewart and most of his other signings were dross and only good for hoofball football. He was desperately trying to change Liverpool, to try and modernise it, that he forgot to keep the good stuff and threw out everything. Then, when he realised it, he was trying to refigure things but made the mistake of selling his soul and that was that.}

24 Jun 2017 13:04:44
Thanks for the answer mate. Think he thought he could play like they did at rangers I suppose and be a success. Was that the interview with the scum paper that you meant?


{Ed001's Note - yes, once he did that his days were always going to be numbered. There are some things you just can't do.}

24 Jun 2017 14:13:11
heard that he right away changed all the light bulbs to 60 watt, I kid you not, and stopped the lunch meal that the players were getting after training, don't shoot the messenger .


24 Jun 2017 16:29:01
He did play a big part in managing the emergence of Fowler and McManaman. I know they didn't play a lot under him but he definitely helped them at the start of their careers.


25 Jun 2017 03:08:51
Im sure he gave Fowler his debut

Not sure about Macca.


24 Jun 2017 11:54:22
People still saying how an out and out striker would massively improve us. But IMO you can a 20-30 goal striker up too for us but I still don't think it would necercerily help us break down the bottom half teams that we have struggles with for the last few seasons.

For me I think 2 full backs would do a great deal to improve that. By having a full back each side that can get forward and keep up with play and put a decent or first time delivery into the forwards and not keep having to cut in all the time or constantly slowing our attack down that will IMO add more goals to our game than bringing in another striker.

Believable7 Unbelievable4

24 Jun 2017 12:38:13
Part of problem is the way we play in these games, it's slow, a lot of passing round midfield, players dropping short, and not making another run - maybe a twenty goal a season man might make a difference - but for me it's more. We need to be taking those chances to run at a player, play that risky through ball. Sometimes I think full backs get forward too much, and should just sit, allowing space for the wingers to isolate their man and beat them, only make that overlapping run if needed or there is a great opportunity.


24 Jun 2017 11:33:28
This is the reply a Liverpool fan got when he tweeted new Liverpool CEO Peter Moore about Aubameyang

"if Aubameyang is available for £63m as reported (and would come) please get him! You would recoup most of the money in shirts"


" All the profits would disappear with the cost of lettering the shirts. "

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24 Jun 2017 12:29:58
Light hearted sense of humour. Nice of him to reply to fans.


24 Jun 2017 14:03:57
i thought the way salah was announced was quite funny. salah announced in response to people constantly tweeting announce salah.


24 Jun 2017 14:10:53
What's this myth about recouping transfer fees with shirt sales?


24 Jun 2017 14:15:51
great to hear a bit of footy banter, and he knows that this player is just out of our reach .


24 Jun 2017 10:37:03
This constant abuse of the statistic that Liverpool haven't ever struggled for goals under Klopp at times because they are X top scorers, is really getting ridiculous.

Klopp has managed us for 99 competitive games, and we have failed to score in 18 of those matches. Why is it acceptable to fail to break down the opposition every 1 in 5 games?


On top of that there have been another 30 games most of which were draws or losses where we only scored 1 goal.

So on top of 18 games where we failed, there are also 30 games where we struggled. In other words, in nearly half of our games under Klopp we have struggled to score.

We are one of the top scorers under Klopp because we have scored 4 or more goals on 16 occasions which accounts for 64 goals scored out of the 186 scored under Klopp. So over a third of the goals scored have come in less than a fifth of the games played. The problem there is that you don't need to win by a 3 or 4 goal margin so most of those goals are pretty worthless with regards to the point total.

There are too many times under Klopp where we cannot break down the opposition and that is papered over by the fact that if we get an early goal and the opposition try and fight back, we take them to pieces.

I am not saying we need an out and out striker in every game, but playing a false 9 against a bottom 8 team is a little bit conservative. I really hope the signing of Salah helps breaking teams down because like Mane he is a good poacher around the back post and picks up a lot of goals. As well as that Sturridge finally looks to be fit and will hopefully find some form. Who knows how good Solanke could be.

We may or may not need to sign a striker because we could potentially solve the issue with players now at the club, but denying there is an issue? That is part of the problem. 48 out of 99 games scoring 1 goal or less is not what title winners do. You will never completely eradicate conceding goals. We do definitely concede too many but there are just as many times where we don't score enough.

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{Ed001's Note - sorry but you are abusing the stats as you have not looked at any of the others to make a comparison. How many teams score every game? How often do they score more than 1 goal? Etc etc. You have just posted up meaningless stats again.

We finished 4th, with a defence that fell to pieces on a regular occasions, not just costing us wins, but leading to draws and meaning we had to score 4 or more goals to get the win. You seem to have forgotten how often those games that we scored 3 or more in we conceded goals too.

Anyone with eyes can see the big problem is the defending, fix that and it changes everything, as teams can no longer just sit back expecting us to give up easy chances.}

24 Jun 2017 10:49:18
Stats for prats (or possibly the other word beginning with a 't')


24 Jun 2017 11:00:05
Why don't you sit out the front of the club with your klopp out banner. Your a non believer.


24 Jun 2017 11:03:17
There are lies, damned lies and statistics.


24 Jun 2017 11:09:12
Exactly Ed001, it been the same for the past 4 years, even with Suarez and Studge we failed to win the league. Defense, defense, defense please Jurgen.


24 Jun 2017 11:11:15
We have a striker and that is Firmino. That's that. He is an unorthodox striker, but there is a chance that he would improve even further this year.
To be honest, I hate him in the wing position, I think he doesn't have the right skillset and becomes highly ineffective in that position. For me he has to be either a central striker or a secondary one, he excels when he has bodies around him.
If we fulfil the fans' wish and push for a "proper" striker, what would that mean for him? He is not a player for the bench.
I would rather stick with him and hope he makes the next step, he has it in him to be a 15-20 goal player, while making OTHERS to be equally prolific.


24 Jun 2017 11:36:18
Why not strive for a lethal, dynamic, exciting attack AND a very solid, Chelsea-like defence? Makes weekends a lot easier!


24 Jun 2017 11:53:37
The team is unbalanced. Great going forward, poor at the back. Anyone who disagrees has a rather strange view in my opinion.


24 Jun 2017 12:39:46
Hasnt James Milner never lost a game which he has scored in? Why not put him up front, so when he scores, we won't lose?


24 Jun 2017 12:39:49
MK, your post is laughable, containing a lot of half truths and statistical spin that has been royally debunked by the Ed and others. We failed to score in 18 games out of 99. Did you check the lineups in those games? Did you know if in many of these games where we had enough chances to score and the strikers fluffed their lines? I can keep going hence, your points are severely hollow.

And like Ed said, what team scores every game? So to you if we buy "insert striker name here", we will no longer struggle to score nor struggle to break teams down? Come on, man. Your posts are one of my favs to read on this forum but this one, is a nothing burger, I'm afraid.

We need to sort out our defence as that is where we are failing to fully take advantage of our goal-scoring ability to get more points and our useless stat of 18 points lost from from winning positions, should be what should bother you more than the baseless "we need a natural goalscorer" rhetoric many on here have been peddling with no real facts to support that claim.


24 Jun 2017 13:42:21
MK statistics prove nothing. 61% of all people know this.


24 Jun 2017 13:57:27
Statistics are only useful for reinforcing biases. Choose any argument and you can find statistics to back it up.
It is statistically possible to be the leagues top scorers and get relegated.


24 Jun 2017 14:23:39
get two new full backs, and we will have a 20 per cent better chance of winning the premiership .


24 Jun 2017 15:30:53
Have to go against the grain on this.
Regardless of other teams and how often they score, we have still struggled for goals at times.
8 goals in 3 games isn't much good if you stick 7 past an opponent and score 1 in the next two games but as long as the stats say 8 in 3 that's ok?
Why are people acting like buying a striker means we can't sort the defence out too? This is madness, we don't seem to be in a terrible financial state so why on earth can we not look to a striker and some defenders?
I felt there were parts of the season where Firmino wasn't an effective CF. excellent work rate, brilliant skills at times but he doesn't always carry the goal threat he should.


24 Jun 2017 17:08:47
Sod the defence. Just outscore everyone! Mo, Sadio and Bobby, Phil and Danny will be all over them all like a rash.


24 Jun 2017 19:54:35
Welsh, then work on improving Firmino's output in front of goal as I too, agree that he could do better with his touch and composure in front of goal cos what he offers, NO other CF bar maybe Suarez and Gab Jesus, can offer in terms of work rate, relentless pressing, guile, movement and ability to set his team mates up to score, all the things Klopp requires of his CF's. Klopp will not change his CF requirements just to placate those like yourself, calling for a top striker. That is a fact and people need to get over it and for some, get over themselves. It's not like we are starving for goals. Where we are starving is the silly goals we concede and the amount of points we have dropped from winning positions under Klopp (18 dropped last season) . That is where improvement is needed hence 2 FB's and a change in our defensive mentality should be worked on in preseason.


25 Jun 2017 03:19:08
Klopp plays attacking football with a style that does sometimes leave you more exposed at the back and susceptible to counter attacks.

Thar been said some od our defending was pathetic and has to be upgraded.

But I much prefer our style compared with the special one and his busses.


24 Jun 2017 10:26:02
Hi Ed001,

I'm aware that we were not liked with Zabaleta, but do you think he would've been a worthy addition at Liverpool? Also would've you taken Bacary Sagna?

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{Ed001's Note - no, his legs have gone, no, he has never been good enough, never understood why Citeh signed Sagna. So average on his good days.}

24 Jun 2017 10:33:29
I would rather play Milner at RB.


24 Jun 2017 10:48:00
I would disagree on Zabaleta ed01, I remember him from the first years when he came to England, and he was a surprisingly astute acquisition. Always thought him a top professional, he did not shine neither attacking nor defending, but he was stable. I very much liked City when they were owned by that Thailand guy, they looked new and refreshing.

On a side note, do you remember Martin Petrov who played for them back in the day? I would be curious to hear the thoughts of someone unbiased.

As a Bulgarian, I was naturally a huge fan, watching the two Petrovi and Berbatov was a regular bonding experience for me and my father, may he rest in peace. We were very sad that injuries took their toll from him, he had a killer cross and a very good footballing brain, one of the last good "traditional" wingers that I remember.


{Ed001's Note - what you don't think his legs have gone? The rest was meant to apply to Sagna. Zabaleta is finished.

I quite liked Petrov's workrate, but he lacked that real genuine quality that makes a difference. He could cross, get up and down the flank, but he didn't have real skill to get past a man.}

24 Jun 2017 11:06:15
I was scratching at the "he has never been good enough" part ed, currently he is in his decline of course. He should move to a slower, less physical league to see off his retirement, but I will remember him as a top right back - to a degree this would be due to the fact that I cannot think of many good RBs in the past decade.

You are right about Petrov, he relied on his speed, but lost a crucial bit after the heavy injury at Athletico. We were hoping that there he would have his breakthrough to stardom, but it was not meant to be. I was still happy that he managed to recover and have a positive spell with City, but he had to change his style.


{Ed001's Note - Zabaleta was one of my favourite players a few years back, he was, imo, the best right back in the Prem in his prime, by some margin. He is nowhere near his prime now though.}

24 Jun 2017 11:07:39
I thought for a second you was on about zab never being good enough an I was about to kick off 😂
He was absolutely fantastic in his prime that guy.


{Ed001's Note - god no, I loved Zabaleta.}

24 Jun 2017 11:10:26
If only Zabaleta was a few years younger I'd have him for sure. Milner at RB wouldn't be bad. No more cutting in everytime and actually putting a good ball in the box.


24 Jun 2017 12:43:47
Zabaleta was a great RB in a few years ago, most definitely and had we signed him then instead of the perenially crap Glen Johnson, we would have been a much better thing. Zab was quality both offensively and defensively and to me, is the last man in a crop of old school FB's who were required to both attack and defend with the same level of quality just like A. Cole, Finnan, etc.


24 Jun 2017 10:24:50
Any interest in Luan, I'm assuming nothing would happen unless we sell sturridge and maybe loan Ings out.

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{Ed002's Note - Try the search engine.}

24 Jun 2017 10:21:15
Attacking trio of Mane, Firmino and Salah. That is a daunting prospect for opposition defences. Pure pace and trickery from Mane and Salah and the potent movement from Firmino :-)

Can see us scoring shed loads this coming season.

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24 Jun 2017 12:44:52
And with Couts behind them, it will be very difficult to stop us in full flight.


24 Jun 2017 10:10:38
Eds, surely the rumours about mbappe have to be nonsense, not just for Liverpool's sake but 100m + for a player who's had one season considering you have the likes of lacazette and aubameyang available for 50-60.

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{Ed025's Note - i know mate its getting ridiculous now..

24 Jun 2017 10:27:26
I think it has been made clear over and over again that Mbappe to Liverpool will not happen. Arsenal in talks with Lacazette. Aubameyang has his eyes set on Madrid and a massive pay day.

Rule out all three players.


24 Jun 2017 10:36:45
Mbappe is very young and very, very special. All eyes were on him during the champions league and he was excellent, did not crack under pressure. You pay 100 mill for him now, and he improves?, in 2 years time he will be worth double! I do not see that being the case for lacazette and auba. So business wise, it does make sense.


24 Jun 2017 10:43:57
If Aubameyang has his heart set on Madrid it doesn't mean he will end up there, they've got to want him too. I had my heart set on playing for Liverpool when I was younger. still do at 32 but doesn't mean Liverpool want me. Not saying we will get him just that he's not guaranteed to end up at Madrid.


24 Jun 2017 10:58:33
Have you seen Mbappe? Watch him again, not just YouTube highlights but repeats of games. Watch again and remind yourself he is 18. He tore up the biggest club competition he doesn't just score he is amazing with the ball at his feet.
£100m is ridiculous but it's the way things are going. Pogba is not a game changer like a striker can be but he was £90m. Defenders are now going arbitration £50-£70m if Walker and Saints get VVD sale. £100m is going to happen.
You cannot predict the future of course but if you could sign Ronaldinho, Ronaldo or Messi today at 18 for £100m you would. Mbappe could easily become as important as they were/ are.


{Ed002's Note - He will fit right in when he gets to Madrid no doubt.}

24 Jun 2017 11:26:54
He'll be good enough to fully replace Ronaldo Ed, he looks good enough already without years of games and experience.


24 Jun 2017 20:43:55
I feel it's a great shame because Mbappe is a player with a ready-made song written by those rock legends Hanson.


24 Jun 2017 09:43:50
Ed01

Hope you're well mate. Could you do player profile on Salah please? Appreciate you're busy though.

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{Ed001's Note - I will add it to my list, will be a while though as I have a lot to get through before that.}

24 Jun 2017 10:27:34
No worries. Thanks Ed.


24 Jun 2017 10:46:41
Nor do we need him.


24 Jun 2017 11:28:30
My post "nor do we need him" was for the above Aubameyang discussion I replied on wrong post.


24 Jun 2017 07:30:18
Ed02,

If you get a bit of time could you maybe put together something on what effect the UK leaving the EU could have on the Premier League? I ask because most articles have been scaremongering and in general there doesn't seem a lot of good reports out there.

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{Ed002's Note - It is not actually clear what would happen with work permits. There would certainly not be any overnight change but the eventual position would likely be a need for work permits and residence permits. In terms of existing EU citizens already working in the UK, there is no plan but I would think an amnesty would be the likely decision followed by a quota system of some type. A good question but no firm answer I am afraid.}

24 Jun 2017 10:11:06
The following are my questions. I don't know if anyone knows the answers yet? It will be a balance between maintaining the revenue and appeal of the premier league and "protecting the future and integrity of the game". I believe the balance has been lost in the last 20-25 years. I suspect the greedy clubs/ businesses will want to maintain the status quo.

1)Is there the possibility of creating premier league specific rules about numbers of non-UK players in the starting XI?

2)Will Bosman's no longer apply?

3)Is there the legal possibility of wage caps?

4)Will it put the breaks on this European breakaway league idea?

My understanding is these are EU laws which won't necessarily be implemented when Brexit happens. It's certainly going to be interesting.


{Ed025's Note - my feeling is that nothing will change anytime soon ron..

24 Jun 2017 05:39:25
Hi Eds, the money in football seems ridiculous now. I'm only 18 but the price of a decent player seems to be increasing by £10m every year. Are UEFA or the PL looking into trying to limit the amount of money spent by teams in the premier league other than FFP? Some players cost as much as a hospital and that just seems daft to me.

Cheers for any response.

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{Ed002's Note - That is how it is.}

24 Jun 2017 10:26:45
Im astounded how much the transfer fees being thrown around this window are. Is Liverpool FC really the same approximate evaluation as two Ronaldos or six Mbappes?


24 Jun 2017 11:10:26
Look at some other sports. Football is not by any means the highest spenders on players. Look at what Baseball and Basketball players contracts are like. $200m wages for one player, these guys can buy countries. These two sports combine wages would clear world debt (not really but you know what I'm saying)


24 Jun 2017 09:16:32
Any news on Henderson's fitness status Eds?
Has he recovered from his PF condition?

Cheers
Ted.

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{Ed001's Note - no word yet, preseason will be when we find out how he is getting on.}

24 Jun 2017 08:05:26
So it's only a YouTube clip but saw a highlights reel of Can against Chile. Looked to have a good game although obviously only showed his good moments. Anyone see the whole game did he play well through out considering he was facing off against Vidal?

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24 Jun 2017 08:44:30
I saw the whole game and Can was very good in midfield. It was his driving run through midfield that led to Germany's equalizer with a defence-splitting pass to Hector who crossed to Lars Stindl (Btw, I would love him at LFC) to slide home. He used the ball well, kept possession efficiently, good in the tackle and more than held his own against Arturo Vidal.

He hast resumed from where he left off in the alst three months of solid performances for LFC with his good play. Those saying he should be sold need to give their heads a wobble and then get back to the rest of us.


24 Jun 2017 10:51:12
He's a squad player.

Nothing more.


24 Jun 2017 11:21:19
Watched it too and the set up for the equalizer showcased the best of Can. opened himself up for a square ball bailing the defender out, following it with a hard driving run from midfield into space, and then a perfectly timed pass to set up Hector. Looked to be strong in the tackle and shielded the ball well when needed. Give the boy the 100k a week and sign him up long term. certainly up there with Coutinho as one of our best buys in the last ten years.


24 Jun 2017 12:47:53
Squad player to be replaced by who in the starting 11 (if hendo is not fit), Davey or is this one of your open ended posts that lack any type of logical reasoning?


24 Jun 2017 07:34:29
If and a big if sturridge, Gomez and Stewart are to be sold, ward ojo and ings go on loan are we not going to struggle with the home player quota?

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24 Jun 2017 07:57:49
You have answered your own question, if that happened then maybe we would. Some will some won't all of them as individuals could go but collectively won't if it proved an issue so chill 👍🏻.


24 Jun 2017 07:22:53
Anyone see the U21 Spain Serbia game last night?
The Serb Zivkovic (plays for Benfica) left winger looked class, don't worry Eds I am not going to ask if we are linked, just saying I would certainly like to see him in a Liverpool shirt.

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24 Jun 2017 01:17:46
ED001 apologies if you've already answered this gaffer had a quick look in the search but couldn't find anything, I know you don't rate VVD and I understand where you're coming from he does look like a bit of a Hollywood defender, unnecessary challenges as brilliant as they maybe due to lapses in concentration and poor positioning in the first place, but was wondering how you stand on Mo Salah, and Oxlade Chamberlain

I've never seen Salah play tbh, but if his stats are anything to go by he looks like a good signing but obviously it doesn't always work like that

In terms of the Ox I have always liked him as a player, just the raw strength and pace bursting through the middle seems like it could work to me, although he doesn't seem particularly technical to me, it's not as if we've got a lack of 'technicians' (BR throwback😂)

Just wanted to grab your opinion if you've got a second

Cheers pal.

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{Ed001's Note - I like Salah, he is lightning, maybe even quicker than Mane, plus he is excellent technically. If he can settle in ok and build a partnership with the other players, he will be an excellent signing.

I do not see any reason to think the same of Oxlade-Chamberlain. He is big and strong, but lacks intelligence, which is why he has yet to play well (when I have watched him) when he starts. Like most that lack intelligence, he does his best work when used as an impact sub. Technically I remain to be convinced he is that good, he is all about physical over technical for me. That is not even mentioning the injury problem.}

24 Jun 2017 07:36:11
Couldn't agree more ed001.


24 Jun 2017 08:51:09
My thoughts exactly on Salah, Ed. I also think he has that prdatory touch in front of goal that is very rare among wingers or wide men. If you check his goals for both La Viola and for Roma, he never panics or snatches at his one on ones with the GK. He seems to have ice in his veins and possesses the composure that is more accustomed to a CF, to tuck home his goals. These are are the areas of his game that interest me apart from his The Flash-type quickness, guile and movement. What do you think?

As for the Ox, Ed02 said Klopp wants him but like you, I don't see a thing in his game that he can give us that will elevate us to the next level and his injury record is atrocious. But if Klopp wants him, so be it as i will trust him.


{Ed001's Note - Salah is an excellent player, I agree, it is his all round game, more than his pace, that makes him so good.}

24 Jun 2017 09:39:17
Glad it's not just me that doesn't think Ox has the intelligence to be a top class player.


24 Jun 2017 12:49:51
You Will Never Walk Alone on that front, Hansen.


24 Jun 2017 01:37:13
I know we cannot buy everyone but surely if Lacazette is a available at 44 million we should be considering a bid for him?

Baz.

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24 Jun 2017 03:50:45
we can't just go and buy everybody. oh wait, that's what you said. haha even if we wanted lacazette, given our current stock it would seem unwise to splash that cash and load up another player for that position.


24 Jun 2017 08:53:05
And where do we put the other forwards we have on the books, Baz? Also, keep in mind that scoring goals is not our problem and Salah with his ability in front of goal, can only help increase the level of production in that dept. So again, what do we do with the other CF's we currently have if Lacazette was to sign?


24 Jun 2017 10:15:53
I'd guess Brussels that as Sturridge, Origi and Ings had about 20 goals combined in probably 50 games combined, that at least one of them would become surplus to requirements.
I understand that some positions are more important than others at the moment, however he is a top striker and would significantly improve the side.
As a club we should be more than capable of targeting a LB/ CB at the same time as other players.


24 Jun 2017 11:31:17
Lacazette could come in to replace origi who is young but at this time not good enough. I like Sturridge and on his day is unplayable but the club will listen to offers for him. Ings I believe is looking at being loaned to give him 1st team football and fitness.
That leaves us short of out and out strikers. So at the cost labelled we should be looking at lacazette.

Baz.


24 Jun 2017 12:53:45
Since none of what you say will happen Baz as Klopp wants his CF's to do much more than what normal CF's do, Firmino will be here, Origi is not getting sold and Lacazette is off to Arsenal as they need a CF, we don't. Goals is not the issue with us. It is keeping them out and the stat that we lost 18 points from winning positions, should be what should worry you and not the fact that we have been scoring goals for fun since Klopp got here. We fix the defence, we cut the amnt of points dropped from winning positions to a minimum and that could win you the title or get you close.


24 Jun 2017 00:13:01
Gonna put it out there as dubious as it is. I want the Ox. Just like Lallana has excelled under Klopp, I honestly think Ox is made for a Klopp system. Youthful, quick, strong, good feet and tenacious and just like Lallana he just needs games, to improve his decision making and his positional sense and I think we could have a gem at £25m. We need depth and for all the people that say that is going to stifle youth chances are the exact same people that would say we lacked depth when we had woodburn and Wilson as our only two attacking options on the bench.

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24 Jun 2017 01:44:44
Or we could save the money and develop Ejaria, Grujic etc. Instead of signing a jack of all trades master of none, injury prone player who hasn't developed since 18.


24 Jun 2017 03:09:29
If we are playing against Real Madrid in the champions league and we need to substitute one of our attacking midfielder you will pick from the bench ejaria grujic or oxlade chamberlain?


{Ed001's Note - Grujic for me please!}

24 Jun 2017 03:16:48
If we are playing against Real Madrid in the champions league and we need a game changer who would you pick from the bench ejaria grujic or oxlade chamberlain?


24 Jun 2017 05:11:03
i would also pick grujic.

youre overestimating ox and underestimating grujic.

ejaria is a bit different, i don't think he's ready yet.


24 Jun 2017 07:12:11
I remember early last season and ed001 was telling us the scouts love grujic, that he was a special tallest and we was lucky to have him! Hopefully the injurys didn't set him back to much and he can kick on and make a mark this season.


24 Jun 2017 08:01:30
If he remains fit I expect big things from him no pun intended!


24 Jun 2017 08:55:23
I would pick Grujic over he Ox any day as the Ox has shown that he is not good enough and not needed even as a bench warmer.


24 Jun 2017 09:13:18
How is the game going? Are we winning or losing? Is it the knockout stage? What result do we need?


24 Jun 2017 12:55:03
Regardless of the scenario Tappedmeup, Ox is pants and not good enough even off the bench.


 
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