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24 Apr 2017 21:36:03
Congratulations Rafa Benitez! YNWA.
24 Apr 2017 22:37:16
Yay. Congrats to Rafa.
Wish he won but it is still good achievement.
Cheers.
25 Apr 2017 00:18:53
Yes indeed. Top manager even better person.
25 Apr 2017 00:34:36
Well done Raffa. Another top coach in the Prem. Next season.
25 Apr 2017 14:59:08
yes, looking forward to Liverpool V Newcastle at Anfield, give Rafa a brilliant reception .
24 Apr 2017 21:16:08
My opinion about Sturridge - and it may be a wrong one - is that he should leave.
I'll compare his situation to Robben at Chelsea. Always injured.
I think he should go to a less physical league. Take his time, get his strength back. Work on himself mentally. It worked for Robben, it might work for him too.
While I love seeing him play at Liverpool, I think it's better for him and his career to move to a less demanding league for now.
But then, I may be wrong.
{Ed002's Note - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hVCMXFQfhA
24 Apr 2017 21:29:16
Sturridge's injuries does not take away his talent, it only sets him back.
2013/ 14, show me a better striker than Sturridge and saying that it was not only down to Brendan being a good coach. Sturridge is a natural talent but unfortunately he will never again be able to apply that. Made of glass.
{Ed002's Note - Thank goodness you are not living in the past.}
25 Apr 2017 10:48:39
The amount of thumbs down ill get for this will be unreal but i said it once and i stand by it.
I have always said we should have sold Sturridge the season we got rid of Suarez, would have got a very good price to replace him. well get feck all now as he's a gamble due to him being injured constantly.
great player when not injured but is injured more than fit.
25 Apr 2017 22:06:08
It's easy to say that now, with hindsight. At the time, there would have been uproar if we sold him after the season he had just had.
24 Apr 2017 21:02:37
On a brighter note after yesterdays shocker check out the U23s 2nd goal vs City tonight . Gomez crossfield ball to Wilson flicked on to TAA through ball to Woodburn for a tidy finish .
25 Apr 2017 03:34:22
all potential 1st teamers for the future.
25 Apr 2017 08:14:41
Check out Gomez goal line clearance as well. Great defending.
25 Apr 2017 09:27:24
Meanwhile, in the first team, Lovren happens.
25 Apr 2017 11:01:46
I wish wilson was getting a shot though. what has the kid got to do?! Fingers crossed for next season. How much do you rate Woodburn eds?
{Ed001's Note - good little player. Still got a lot of work to do to be ready for regular starts though.}
25 Apr 2017 14:22:16
Gomez will get his chance very soon, he will do much better than people think .
25 Apr 2017 22:07:53
To be fair mate, I think most people expect him to do well. He looked good in the first team before his injury.
24 Apr 2017 21:01:13
So after the disappointment of the Palace result I have calmed down.
We have 4 games left to make top 4. That is the bottom line. It is time for fans, supporters, players, manager, coaches and the tea lady to pull together to see us over the line.
Whatever happens at the end of the season, we are still Liverpool no matter what.
YNWA.
25 Apr 2017 14:24:42
Totally agree, we should really go for it, no draws, and put on forwards as our subs . Its goals we want .
24 Apr 2017 19:42:52
our defence is dismal get rid of the lot of em and start again. No zonal marking please.
24 Apr 2017 19:54:52
Serious temptation just to copy and paste the paragraph about zonal marking in my earlier post.
Hint: If the ball basically goes through two players, then the zonal marking system worked cos they were in the right place. The players just forgot the part where they have to actually clear it.
Wouldn't argue about recruiting new defenders though.
24 Apr 2017 19:56:01
RUSH1972,what KLOPP should be telling them is, when the ball becomes DEAD, the whole team should be ALIVE.
24 Apr 2017 20:16:38
Excellent response wembley 78.
24 Apr 2017 20:33:08
wembley - the issue is that if they need telling, they aren't good enough by half.
24 Apr 2017 21:11:25
The issue is you can tell someone something endlessly but if they don't have the natural aptitude or game reading they aren't going to change. No matter how much lipstick you slap on that pig it is still a porker.
{Ed002's Note - https://twitter.com/wonderdogsparky?lang=en }
24 Apr 2017 21:12:00
Irrespective of whether you zonal mark or man mark, if Benteke is given the space he was then zonal or man marking has no relevance.
It is not the first time Benteke has scored against us and or any other team man marking!
Our defenders need to start focusing instead of watching the ball.
24 Apr 2017 22:15:45
FRESHST, I get your point but if they don't have the aptitude or the ability to read the game, well we'd all have to come to the conclusion that they've been conning a living from the game and the sooner there chased from our club the better. they all seem to have the aptitude when there negotiating a new contract. or is that me being a cynic.
25 Apr 2017 00:40:05
Could it be that there is to much organisation and rigid structure at set pieces.
Zones don't score goals players do.
If a player runs into your zone and leaps for the ball his momentum from the run gives him the advantage over you jumping from a standing position.
25 Apr 2017 10:05:05
Wembley not really cynical at all but that is why they have agents and in some cases the agents did superb jobs to get them where they are.
25 Apr 2017 10:22:56
Dermot that is a good point and if you watch the headed goals Arsenal conceded a couple of games ago it was exactly that, attackers had momentum and defenders aren't going to out jump that. As others have said that doesn't change with the system it changes with basics. If players are standing ball watching, which is a problem then system isn't relevant. You could be holding a zone and still make the run and powerful jump to clear it.
24 Apr 2017 19:09:19
Question for ed001, do you think we'll get top 4? Personally I'm quitely confident as I feel the teams we have left to play are on holiday mode as they have nothing to play for, Watford, Southampton and West Ham are mid table and Middlesbrough are more or less relegated. Also I feel united have a really tough run in and may prioritise Europa league over the League. Would be devastated if we fail to make top 4 as we need to badly upgrade the first 11 with quality additions.
{Ed001's Note - I would be seriously disappointed if we failed to get top four now. Citeh are awful, United have the Europa League, Arsenal are terrible, there is no reason for us not to get a top four place other than our own shortcomings.}
24 Apr 2017 19:57:29
I'm worried about Man U's recent form. They've a lot of matches and no Ibrahimovic for the rest of the season, but momentum means a lot. It's actually at the point where I think a United win would be more beneficial on Thursday because I think City will drop more points and losing the Manc derby might be enough to eliminate them from the equation.
Although I'm physically unable to actually want Man U to win any football match.
24 Apr 2017 20:10:30
I'd have to disagree "something red" city are favourites for 3rd, united have several injuries and still have possibly 9 games left to play, I think mourinho will prioritise Europa league, as it's a much easier route. Also we should be getting minimum 10/ 12 points which would probably be enough.
24 Apr 2017 21:28:28
Manchester Unite are inconsistent like us. They draw many games at home too. let's just let ut play out and hipe our lads do the damage.
{Ed002's Note - Hype or hump?}
24 Apr 2017 18:55:10
Hi ed, who do think lallana will come in for lucas or origi.
{Ed001's Note - good question, I would say Lucas, but Origi has not been playing well, so it makes it a tough decision. Personally I think it has to be Lucas, because Lallana is nowhere near as good when he plays further forward.}
24 Apr 2017 19:09:11
True ed you lose pace if lallana plays forward as well. Could do with firmino playing central though, if only we had mane.
{Ed001's Note - perhaps it is time to just give the youngsters their head? There is a bit of pace there to put on the wing. I know it didn't work against Stoke, but that does not mean it won't work every time.}
24 Apr 2017 19:17:53
Maybe Origi because I think Origi plays best as a super-sub.
24 Apr 2017 19:25:24
Origi has great ability but he is so frustrating as he doesn't put himself about enough and he doesn't seem have a football brain.
24 Apr 2017 20:15:31
Yikes ed wants to give the youngsters head.
{Ed001's Note - hahaha, I really should check back what I write! The Jezza Kyle generation always takes things down to the lowest possible denominator after all.....}
24 Apr 2017 20:36:57
Depends on what Klopp thinks isn't working - on the players merit Origi sits, on Lallana merit Lucas sits. I'd guess Lucas.
24 Apr 2017 20:48:42
I'd have Lallana and Wilson in for Lucas and Origi.
24 Apr 2017 18:11:52
Time to talk about lack of leadership and poor mentality again.
For the second goal, Townsend hits a shocking corner, Firmino, Matip and Lucas are all easily in place to deal with it, and none of them do. Firmino is put off too easily, it goes through Matip, and Lucas has gotten out of the way by the time it gets to where he was. Not one of them was focused enough and willing to take responsibility for clearing that ball, they all switched off. I can live with one guy switching off, they're only human. But three? Come on lads, not good enough. It's particularly disappointing for me this time because I consider Firmino and Lucas to be among the better pros in the team. Milner wasn't a million miles away from potentially cutting it out either, and Can ignores Benteke running away from him.
And yet again, there is no reaction. Migs shakes his head in mild annoyance and that's it. No Simon, that won't do. You have every right to lose your head with them for that carry on, so lose it. Make it clear that isn't acceptable. We seem to have too many nice blokes in the team. Milner and Lucas captained the team yesterday. Nice blokes. Good pros in their own right. Not suitable for captaining a team of complacent, fair weather players, though. Henderson has a more aggressive streak in him, but he tends to exclusively direct it at the referee.
And let's not allow Sky Sports to convince us that goal is about zonal marking either. Cos it's not. First off, three players are in the path the ball takes with another one close by, so players are in the correct place to deal with it, and deal with it comfortably. They just didn't deal with it. Secondly, we zonal marked under Rafa, and as much as Andy Gray would go on and on about how evil zonal marking was if we conceded, we actually had one of the best records defending set pieces in the league. Why? Because Rafa had Carragher. Rafa had Hyypia. And Agger. And Reina. Those were fellas with a set of balls who would take responsibility on the pitch. Stick Carragher in place of anyone out of Firmino, Matip and Lucas on that corner and its cleared. Seriously, if we concede from a poor, flat, delivery that shouldn't beat the first man, then man marking won't change anything. They'll just switch off and lose their men and concede goals that way instead.
As I said towards the end of our poor run in Feb. We need players with the right mentality in the summer. Vocal players who can't stand losing and who can't stand players around them phoning it in, cos there's plenty of ability in the side. It just needs to be on display every week, not when it suits.
24 Apr 2017 18:48:11
If Paul Joyce is right klavan looking at 1st team players.
24 Apr 2017 19:13:30
What?
24 Apr 2017 21:31:13
Migs used to shout and scream all the team and he looked stupid. Just want players to take charge, don't need to be a yeller.
24 Apr 2017 18:11:42
Hi Ed01, following on from the weekend defeat and our on-going defensive issues can I ask your thoughts on zonal v man for man marking and your thoughts on why we use the zonal system (is it because of ill-discipline in terms of switching off and sticking with your man etc)? thanks mate.
{Ed001's Note - irrelevant. People blame the system when it is zonal because it is seen as foreign. The players would be just as poor in man marking, it is just more certain that opponents would get free headers when a man marker switches off. We use a mainly zonal system as you really need to grapple your opponent in a man marking system to have any real chance. The modern game has made a man marking system untenable really, as you would just give away penalties every week.}
24 Apr 2017 18:46:05
If a poor corner travels through two players, and a space that was originally occupied by a third when the corner was taken, and reaches a free man who ran past a fourth player, then you can try marking anyway you like. You're still going to concede.
24 Apr 2017 20:43:14
Bollocks ed.
Zonal is a joke. It just doesn't work.
All over the board.
Corners arw going to war. You don't need to foul someone to stay by there side.
It all comes down to this. Do you care about defending as much as attacking.
If you do then we don't have half as many problems.
Can had benteke and because he left his zone he just let him pass by. Lovren is looking at the ball and didn't see benteke come in. If can was next to him then no goal.
There needs to be cleverness in the game aswel. Like seing someone much taller marking a smaller player, they should be swapping and matching up.
All i use to get told was pick the tallest as i was the tallest and work it from there. Worry aboht him and noone else. If the ball comes to use ****ing win it. that's it.
Make sure everyones matches up and then win that battle.
When players start pulling players back its lazyness. If there eager snd on there toes and interested in defending the corner then you stay by him.
They would run the entire pitch if they thought there was a goal chance opportunity.
{Ed001's Note - if that is the kind of response you have then you are showing your utter ignorance of the game. I am done. Zonal marking is obviously just too intelligent for you. Stick to your utter bollox, as that is your level clearly.
It is funny how only the dinosaurs in English football think man to man is the way to go, while the best defences in the world are happy to work in a zonal system.
As for you S96, you haven't a clue how zonal works, you think it was the system that caused the problem, because you are ignorant about the system and another one listening to the imbeciles on TV. Can failed to do his job, no one is meant to let runners 'pass them by', that is not what zonal marking means. It is not about letting them run out of your zone and then forgetting about them. Take the time to learn what he should have done, then you won't look an idiot next time you make a comment about it.}
24 Apr 2017 20:58:12
thanks ed.
{Ed001's Note - welcome.}
25 Apr 2017 09:51:18
First off. There is the description of zonal marking. fifa.
"Zonal marking is a defensive strategy where defenders cover an area of the pitch rather than marking a specific opponent. If an opponent moves into the area a defender is covering, the defender marks the opponent. If the opponent leaves this area, then marking the opponent becomes the responsibility of another defender"
You mention dinosaurs ed but isn't this just football.
Football. Maybe its these clever people who couldn't do f all else with there lifes messing with a very very simple game to make themselves look good.
All these people come in and want to change everything and hardly any of its for the better.
Youve complained about the youth teams and how pampered they are for example. isn't it dinosaur of us to expect the youth to have to work hard?
A corner is simple. Match up with your man and don't let go until the ball is clear.
{Ed001's Note - nonsense and an oversimplification, there is a lot more to it. Perhaps you should check why it is that studies of the data over the years have shown that the effectiveness of corners and number of goals scored from them has dropped since the adoption of zonal marking. Even a man to man system uses zonal within it, as no defence ever in history used an entirely man to man system. You are ignorant as to what a zonal marking system is and have shown that by using that ridiculous explanation from FIFA. That does not even come close to what zonal is, it describes a man to man marking system based on zones, not an outright zonal marking system.
As for your end line, doesn't work. It never has worked. However the pundits can just blame a player rather than a system then.}
25 Apr 2017 09:56:05
Oh and didn't leicster just win the league playing 4-4 fecking 2.
{Ed001's Note - and a mixed zonal, man to man system in defence too.}
25 Apr 2017 12:31:32
Yeah i am saying a full zonal doesn't work.
But i know there is zonal in man to man like having players on the post and maybe at the front of 6 yard box. But you then have to match up with player to player.
Yes the pundits can blame a player but so can the manager and a player doesn't have a stupid excuse like he left my zone. Its like no you were juust lazy.
Benteke scored and can just shrugged and got off. Whearas if that was his man then he could get a bollocking at half time or have players on his case for being a lazy btard.
Its back to making players robots, trying to do everythung for them. You cant. Same as self driving cars there saying that it will take the driver 30 seconds to get back in to driving after there asked to. Point is when all of a sudden a player has to take responsibility or make a decision. its going to take longer bwcause there given so much instruction, and stuff like corners are so quick you have to be alert not just worrying about a zone. You have to know what to do when something changes.
And its not ignorance just you clearly stated that wasnt how a zonal aystem worked, and i thought it best to show you an exact description of the system. not your interpretation of it.
{Ed001's Note - the player does not have an excuse anyway. Again you are showing your ignorance of what a zonal system entails. If a player just wanders from zone to zone without anyone attempting to baulk him, then the players in the zones he has been through are failing not the system. You don't understand what zonal marking is, so please stop going on about it as you are just proving your ignorance more with each post. Can would still have got a bollocking, he still should have got in Benteke's way and tried to block the run, which would have been enough to stop him scoring. Not the system's fault, it is the players.
You showed me a ridiculously oversimplified interpretation aimed at children who have no idea about the game. Perhaps that is your level? Only my 'interpretation' is exactly what is put in place week in week out by professional managers around the world, rather than your idiotic posts based on crap you have heard on TV. Now this is done, you have no idea what you are talking about and you are embarrassing yourself trying to pretend you do.}
25 Apr 2017 17:51:32
1. wouldn't blocking him cause more chance of a penalty?
2. that's my point. Just because men are playing doesn't make it any more complicated. 6 attacking players in the box with 6 defenders. both trying to head a ball, each a different way.
You are literally kicking a ball into a box and asking someone to head it. What is complicated by that.
Why shouldn't anyone be on the posts? How many times do you need someone on yhe post when a goal has gone in and everyone says "oh if he was on the post"
Then your just standing next to your man and trying to head the ball.
Zonal marking has more problems than man marking. It is a pointleas over complicafion of a simple task.
You said can should stay with him and that's just not how it is. He leaves him as benteke has gone into lovrens zone. Then you say well he ahould block him. Whilst saying that man marking is bad because you will give loads of penatly away. Like purposely blocking a players isn't going to do that. Now that's the end of it boss ☺ unless im blocked and youve bottled it.
25 Apr 2017 19:53:55
Properly executed blocking has less chance of a penalty than grabbing people by the shirt constantly. All you have to do is move across and block his run, make him run around a bit further, have to come in from a different position, with a bit less momentum and that is often the difference between getting to the ball and not. We're talking a second or two's difference not rugby tackling the guy.
24 Apr 2017 17:14:39
Hi Eds!
Is it true that Liverpool interested in that young talent Christian Benteke in the summer? :D.
25 Apr 2017 14:39:09
He doesn't score enough .
24 Apr 2017 17:00:12
Evening Eds any updates on any of our injured players returning back for our last 4 games each a cup final now after yesterday's poor result no offence to any of the players on the bench but we have no one of real quality at the moment to help change these silly situations we continually find ourselves in and we are doing our best to throw away our chance of champions league football which we all know will have a massive bearing on the type and quality of player we will be able to attract for next season .
Cheers.
{Ed002's Note - I have not seen any update todate but I suspect Lallana and Klaven will be available - perhaps Sturridge.}
24 Apr 2017 16:38:35
Saw some posts yesterday slating our goal scoring ability an our defense. The goal scoring was mainly aimed at Firmino. Defense Jones mainly aimed at Lovren.
Saying we have not moved forward under Klopp.
Do these same people not realise we are the top scoring team in the Prem this season?
Do these same people not know that in the 14 games previous to Palace where Lovren and Matip had started together we were unbeaten?
Do these same people not see that we are on 66 points now, the same as was enough for City to finish 4th last year, and already more than the 60 points we finished with last season. We have also gone unbeaten against the rest of the top 6. Compare that to Everton a few places below us who have only taken a handful of points from the current top 6 in their past 100 games against them but are efficient againdt lower opposition. I would prefer to be looking for the answer to complacency against lower teams than figuring out how to compete against the other big boys.
With the likes of United, City, Tottenham, Arsenal all playing each other we are still in a very strong place to finish in top 4. Palace needed that last win to make sure they were safe of the drop. The rest of the teams were playing are all putting their flip flops and suncream on.
Our squad is nowhere near the quality of Chelsea, City, Tottenham. Arsenal and United have vast financial backing that we can't currently compete with. We are doing very well to compete at the level we are. Champions league qualification simply isn't as easy as it was 10 years ago.
Get behind the lads, some of you have opinions that swing more than saloon door with every performance.
On a side note, any news on Ings' progress? Any chance of minutes before the end of the season. Really think he could add something to tuck away some of the brilliant chances we create.
24 Apr 2017 17:37:32
Andy, you fail to mention that we have let more goals than any of the top eight, virtually the same amount as each season under Rogers. You also fail to say that all the same problems as we did under Rogers. We still have players having to play out of position. I'm all for Klopp but you cannot say that everything is Rosy, our winning games recently have hardly been stunning performances.
I'm not trying to be overly negative as I think there is still a reasonable chance we will get top three never mind top four but that will just paper over another inconsistent season. All of us will be cheering our team on come Monday but I think most are just venting their frustration not at the result so much but the performance.
24 Apr 2017 20:49:00
Problem up front isn't scoring a lot of goals it is scoring consistently rather than running up big scores then blanks. Against the teams that have played defensively the problem is a combination of not having many chances and not being able to take them. If we could score consistently the poor defence, which is way worse than the attack could be negated for the time being.
25 Apr 2017 14:48:30
Andy, did these same people give LFC a win V Palace, do these same people give us four wins from the last four games, I don't think that will happen, let's be realistic, we will concede more goals, we will be relying on other results .
24 Apr 2017 16:20:48
Hi eds, any idea what happened to my post on the banter page from this morning? Can't seem to find it. No worries if not.
Thanks.
{Ed001's Note - Find it unbelievable how we've struggled with corners for so many years now. Surely the coaches have picked up on it? How does this happen week in week out, nobody takes charge to hoof it up field everyone just leaves it for someone else to deal with. Lovren has to be replaced imo, he's great sometimes but the other games he is so sloppy and messy, making the most basic of errors to gift chances to the opposition. Injury prone too.
Like ed001 said though, Palace did the same the other week against Chelsea so you have to give them some credit I suppose because it can't be a fluke. Onwards and upwards, hopefully city do us a favour then it'll be back in our hands. And if not Spurs and arsenal could still help us out lol.
That one? If so, not a clue mate, I put it up earlier but don't know about anything after that.}
24 Apr 2017 17:13:16
Ii any of the EDD'S r around, if we spend millions on another centre - half and a fullback and we continue to have these problems at the back then the finger of suspicion will be pointed at KLOPP, we had the same problems under RODGERS, at the moment KLOPP seems to be getting away with it, looking back at DORTMUND'S team under KLOPP they did concede a lot of goals. just a thought EDD.
{Ed002's Note - Klopp is at fault. He gets away with it because of his clown like personality and the fans are very easily led. We have been around this on many occasions.}
24 Apr 2017 17:30:11
We've conceded 50 plus goals a season for the last 5 seasons, it's criminal it's still happening but blaming solely klopp is ridiculous, yes he's the manager and responsibility lies with him he's given players he didn't sign a chance to improve and they've let the whole club down, they've proved they can defend well at times but completely switch off at other times, so if millions are needed to sort it out so be it, or we'll be looking at results like yesterday.
24 Apr 2017 17:39:32
What is the solution Ed's? Do we have or need to get any coaches who have better defensive expertise? I know the goalkeeping coach was mentioned specifically as a weak link? I say w/ o having much knowledge of how coaching units work and whether most coaches I'm the EPL delegate certain aspects like defensive coaching.
{Ed001's Note - it is a learning process. I know Ed002 likes to dig at Klopp, but that is up to him and he doesn't watch the games to know if there is any truth to his opinions. Klopp has initiated training sessions designed to fix weaknesses he has spotted (as has been pointed out regarding Karius being constantly buffeted by the coaches in training to toughen him up), I just don't know how much he can do with the players at his disposal. The mental side of the game is where we struggle and that is the most difficult thing to fix. That is why experience of winning trophies is such an important thing.
Right now we don't have the players to do much more and I know Klopp would love to buy world class centre backs, but we just do not have the money, nor are there any available. The biggest issue is the injuries, all our centre backs suffer too many injuries, and it is making it very difficult for the coaches to work with them as a unit and improve matters. That is down to poor recruitment, as injury histories should be taken into account.}
24 Apr 2017 18:09:05
Klopp biggest problem is his inflexibility. If he doesn't start finding solutions quickly then unfortunately can see tide turning on him. He had the same problems at bvb against teams who sit back and counter which he massively failed to fix and had to leave after his huge success. What baffles me he hasn't learn anything from it.
24 Apr 2017 18:00:12
How does he have a clown like attitude. He doesn't come across to me like that. He's a character yes but not a clown.
{Ed002's Note - I didn't mention "attitude". Why don't you read the posts more carefully?}
24 Apr 2017 18:26:39
Yeah that was the one ed, I'd seen it up earlier and then couldn't find it so thought it must have been taken down.
Cheers.
{Ed002's Note - One advantage for Klopp would be the club have a director of football who knows about football coaching and players and not having one who is a performance guy only.}
24 Apr 2017 18:39:27
PORT RED, no one is blaming KLOPP solely, asI said we had this problem under RODGERS, but if it doesn't get sorted soon KLOPP will have no one to blame but himself, at the end of the day KLOPP has come with a big reputation and we as fans need to see if he is tactically astute or is he just another busted flush. the clock ticks.
24 Apr 2017 19:25:30
it can be done with poor players, it's about drills and repetition and having a vaguely intelligent defender to lead the line.
Other teams manage it with worse players.
I think it's a balancing act. If Klopp really wanted to he could just turn us into a boring defensive team like WBA etc. But he wants to keep the positive intent and that's where the balance needs to be found. I think it's a fine adjustment that's needed which is why I'm not on Klopp's case. Well that and the fact that I love (rodeo) clowns 🤡.
{Ed002's Note - The issue is Ron that the defence is Klopps. He ostracized Ward and Sakho and now he is talking up Ward and suggesting he will be moving back as a third choice - and I am far from convinced that will suit Ward. I would bite the bullet and ask the club for a propoer defensive coach to join the coaching team - if there was a proper Director of Football this would have been seen already. I have banged on a bit about Klopp not being willing or able to change, about not having a plan B, about not making good decisions over transfers, about the team running hot and cold continually, but the results and the consistency are simply not there. They are on course for a 3-7 finish and I suspect the will manage to get the results to end up fourth right now - it is not what the owners want, it is not the target, but it buys more time.}
24 Apr 2017 20:53:29
Sorry Ed. "Clown like personality ".
{Ed002's Note - Better - it is always good when you can find a grown up to read it to you. https://twitter.com/wonderdogsparky?lang=en}
24 Apr 2017 15:30:54
Hi Ed 1 not lfc related (thankfully as after yesturday things are toxic) but i was reading your best managers in the world currently list and wondered what you make of zidane?
Hes currently got RM at the top of la liga, playing some good football and looks like he will at least get to another CL final, do you think he's proven to be right choice after they sacked Rafa Benitez or is it all down to how things have been set up for him other than him being a good coach etc? I just find it strange how Benitez was made to fail so badly yet he's done "so well" with the same crop of players?
Thanks.
{Ed001's Note - they are not playing good football, they are top because Barca and Atletico have had very poor years. He has a lot to prove yet. I don't see the relevance of what happened with Rafa to do with anything, it was the same as Ranieri this season, players not wanting someone so being the knobheads players can be. Rafa was never in with a chance.
As for Zidane, I don't see what he has done so well? He has basically stuck to what Rafa was doing and been Zidane. Not because he is a good coach but because he was a great player that has their respect because of that. They are not going to down tools under Zidane as the fans would never stand for it.
This year is no test of his coaching ability, that will come when Barca are not in turmoil.}
24 Apr 2017 16:11:08
u r absolutely right Ed001. I saw the clasico and both teams were so horrible defensively and offensively both depended on individual qualitites rather than attacking as a team. All zidane has done is keep the dressing room happy. I am really hoping this time we see atletico vs juventus final in the champions league- the 2 best defences in europe.
24 Apr 2017 16:40:06
have to agree about seeing juventus v atletico in the cl final! and buffon winning it in the end!
thanks ed1 that's what i was thinking about it tbh but a lot of people seem to think he's the new messiah and such a wonderful coach, but i geuss being a brilliant ex player who played for the club so long will always win the respect from other players hence them playing for him more then benitez.
{Ed001's Note - it is difficult to judge any manager there at the best of times, it is an odd club, but he has done nothing but get lauded for the 'Casemiro switch' when it was actually Rafa that set up the team like that! If he was anyone but Zidane, there would be questions being asked about why they are not miles clear in La Liga, as Barca have been dreadful this year and Atletico have been having a rough season too. Also about his tinkering with tactics, formations and personnel, for no apparent reasons.
I really want to see Buffon get the trophy too.}
24 Apr 2017 19:43:56
On a related note, what is your opinion on Casemiro, Ed001? I've only seen him play a couple of times and both times he should've been sent off for a multitude of ridiculously rash tackles.
{Ed001's Note - not a fan at all. Average player put there purely because they have no one else to play the role.}
24 Apr 2017 14:26:11
This is to those who are saying we’re now going to miss out on the top 4, I know that yesterday was a disappointment and we’ve all had a bit of a kneejerk but you’ve suffered a massive over reaction, we’re still in the driving seat and we’re still likely to qualify for the CL.
Whilst there are no absolutes 75 points will probably be enough and that’s only three wins away. Arsenal have three games in hand but they’re against a resurgent Leicester, Spurs and Utd, they’re not going to take 9 points from those games so they won’t catch us unless we collapse.
Utd are away for 4 of their final 6 games including City, Arsenal and Spurs, they also have to suffer Palace and Allardyce enjoys few things more than getting one over Mourinho, they are going to drop points. City will probably finish above us but third or fourth is much of a muchness and that wouldn’t bother me. We still have work to do to get top four but it’s work we’re should expect to manage.
24 Apr 2017 14:42:14
Agreed. Very frustrating but let's move on. Hopefully Lallana and Hendo and dare I say sturridge are available in the coming games.
24 Apr 2017 15:19:24
yes, we have to move on, one game at a time, Hendo I think will not play again this season, Sturridge won't get much game time, Lallana will play, but for me, we are playing for 4th or 5th place, do Klopp and the team have the bottle to make top four, or have we blown it, when it comes down to having to win every game, its much more difficult .
24 Apr 2017 15:45:19
Well done Putney. A good post that displays a sensible perspective.
24 Apr 2017 15:57:42
Good to see an uplifting post, still quietly confident that we will get top 4, united have several tough games left and also have europa league which will affect their league form hopefully. Top 4 is massive for us as we will be able to attract much needed quality players especially in our defence who are making their best effort to derail our top 4 hopes.
24 Apr 2017 18:08:11
I think United getting to the UEFA final may see them playing weakened teams in their last couple of games which may help us out in our quest 4th place. I think we need 10 points from 12 really, yesterday was a big defeat for us really, very frustrating.
24 Apr 2017 19:50:17
I'd feel more confident if our last 4 games were against Chelsea, Spurs, City and Utd.
Those are the games where we come out of the traps fighting from the first minute. They also give us more space to play.
When we play lower teams we start at a poor tempo, passing endlessly from side to side and never get into the game until it's too late.
24 Apr 2017 11:34:22
Bloody hell all doom and gloom today after yesterdays result. Anything to cheer us up ed001/ 002? 🤔.
{Ed002's Note - http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CONFEDERATE_STATUES_NEW_ORLEANS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-04-24-07-37-07 This is good news.}
24 Apr 2017 14:45:11
Cheers ed. I know I can always rely on you mate. ☺😅.
24 Apr 2017 11:22:37
Morning Eds, first time posting in this forum. Just out of curiosity, we have linked with a lot of big names, but if we didn't qualify for the cl, have you got a list of plan b players we are going for? Cheers for reading.
{Ed002's Note - Liverpool will focus on the targets that they have - CL is one issue the face, game time is another.}
24 Apr 2017 15:29:03
gonna be so hard to sign top players, who want Champions League football, also hard to keep hold of our own players who want the same, can't blame a player if he could play for the two best teams in Spain, or stay and play with very average players, and just maybe getting top four,
24 Apr 2017 20:47:54
Thanks ed002.
{Ed002's Note - It is about if you can "sell a plan" if you don't have Champions League and it wall vary on a case by case basis - and financially you are looking at three or four time the income from the Chapions League and sponsorship etc.. Liverpool should be able to make it through - but that is my view. I remain unconvinced that the manager is good enough to sustain that position and move ahead. The owners will yet again put their hands in the pockets as much as they are allowed - but it is beyond wearing thin right now. It is not on the cusp, it is not that bad but what we have right now is not going to be good enough for the owners. Klopp is a decent manager and coach - but not a great one.}
24 Apr 2017 20:48:49
Thanks Eds002.
24 Apr 2017 10:43:21
Just a quick question. When was the last time we scored from a corner? Just interested if anyone remembers.
24 Apr 2017 11:00:59
At palace away. Both Matip and Lovren scored. I think 🤔.
24 Apr 2017 09:31:53
Didn't Palace beat Chelsea the other week? Think we're going overboard again.
We will finish top four. Support.
24 Apr 2017 09:39:20
Hope so but we need Lallana and Sturridge back asap . Now we need other teams to drop points.
24 Apr 2017 09:50:05
Sturridge severely missed yesterday. It was his game. His movement and the only striker I genuinely believe who has that magic to score out from nothing. A fit Sturridge would easily open up any tight defense. Origi is no way in his class.
What would Lallana do when there is no space for him to do usual turn and move?
24 Apr 2017 10:15:30
Harry he's good in tight spaces that opens up the game. And he can get on the half turn.
24 Apr 2017 10:31:10
But harry he is not fit is he? Or are you going to blame klopp for that too?
24 Apr 2017 10:33:40
I have seen him struggle against teams who sit back and defend. He lacks pace and directness something that will help you to skip past players ( Mane ) . We had Coutinho all day to open up and he tried his best.
There was absolutely no movement up and also on the side and Lallana is a lower grade of Coutinho. There was no need to press as well coz we dominated the possession. We lacked width and pace on the flanks and unfortunately that's not Lallana's cup of tea.
I would have thrown in Harry Wilson on the left and I don't know who could play on the right but Firmino is not a RW either. We never stretched their backline coz we play so narrow and Lallana is no help in such situation.
It is an area the manager has failed to address by not adding players in Jan / not trusting the academy.
24 Apr 2017 11:16:25
Harry you're missing the point a bit - Llalana in the side and Can would have been sitting deep and directing play from the back while Llalana would have been all over the pitch and in the box on a regular basis.
He's clearly no Mane (who's pace is invaluable to unlocking stubborn defenses), but a Can/ Llalana/ Gini midfield is far more attacking and creative than Lucas/ Can/ Gini.
24 Apr 2017 11:50:20
Sorry but Lallana would not of made the slightest bit of difference yetserday. He isn't good enough to open up defences, he needs Mane to take defenders out of the game to give Lallana space to run into otherwise he just becomes another one of the pass it sideways brigade, the only difference is Lallana will add in a Cruyff turn before passing or losing possession.
24 Apr 2017 11:50:32
I respect your view Zimbo but for a team that had nearly 70% of the ball wouldn't miss an ACM at the very least. He wouldn't have made any difference as he too need space to make a half circle or even a full turn which there wasn't any. It's a myth that Lallana opens up defense which simply does not. Take out the hard core running from him and he is bang average which he was until 6 months ago. Coutinho is enough to pull any strings from the midfield. You just don't need Lallana.
I mean people shouting at clyne for not providing any width are asking for Lallana is a contradiction. Lallana would never provide any width while that's the only way you break a china wall infront of you!
I agree Can dropping into the middle as Benteke was easily skipping Lucas for fun but you forget Can goes to sleep when you need to mark someone. He is poaitonally inept to play the holding role in the first place.
Wijnaldum was a distaster and rightly should have taken up the Lallana role yesterday which he did not.
The point is Palace had no intention to press us nor wanting the ball hence we had tons of possession without doing anything with it. They maintained the shape and we always struggle against teams who makes a good shape at the back. No wonder the only goal came from a free kick and the chance for Can came from someone hitting the byline and crossing into the box.
I don't think Lallana would anything on the above attribute.
A winger would have made the difference as his pace will stretch their full back and will hit the byline consistently which will open up space in the middle for Wiji / Can or even Coutinho slot into.
Lallana plays through middle as well Coutinho!
24 Apr 2017 14:38:59
UEFALona, I think we both said more or less the same thing there Harry lol.
24 Apr 2017 15:23:58
Please don't start this.
Sturridge was and is not the abswer.
He wouldn't of had that 'magic'.
He hasn't all season. Just don't build it up thay when he returns he will bring us all the goals we need. Or that if klopp sells him he made a mistake.
24 Apr 2017 15:34:22
Some fair points made, but I do think Llalana is better in the box than Can and we had a few chances that went begging, especially the one he missed that Wijnaldum teed him up on. He seems better and arriving late in the box but maybe that's just me.
Actually on one of my other posts I actually agreed with your comment on Couts, and given limited options on the bench I would have dropped Coutinho into midfield and put on another winger.
23 Apr 2017 21:24:19
Hi ed01 not sure if u done a match review yet but wanted to pick your brains on a few things. Not going to bag any individuals but yet again today highlighted a lack of leadership within the team. The second goal was comical and could have been avoided a couple of minutes before. A ball landed in the middle of our box no palace player was near and one of our defenders put the boot through the ball when it was an easy ball for the keeper to collect. No communication we allowed palace decent possession and 3 lovern mistakes later the ball is in the net. Same player takes an elbow couple of minutes later and waits for treatment. Where are the warriors a goal down fighting to reach our targets. Get up show no pain. Also how come we struggle a goal down in the dying minutes to create any sort of real pressure. We didn't create any openings late on and have noticed dis a few times about us. When I watch the other top teams losing late on they almost have the other team under siege or am I just imagining this. Sorry it's so long winded an incredibly frustrating day and so typical after players coming out in the media congratulating themselves on recent good performance eg migs and stories of the big transfers we will get when we qualify for cl typical.
{Ed001's Note - we are playing against Palace under Allardyce. This is the same team that did exactly the same to the league leaders a few weeks back. Why are people so surprised? This is what Allardyce does. He organises the team extremely well, so they give up very few chances and looks to pick off the opposition on the break. We have a young team, lacking in quality to come off the bench and change things.
Again the Spurs example is relevant, as the lack of quality to change the game has been a big problem for them as well. It is only this season that they have shown any signs of fixing that issue under Poch. Why? Because he was given time and patience to build. He wasn't ripping down the foundations and beginning again after every frustrating result, which is exactly what people seem to want us to do.
We have a young squad that needs to be given time to grow together. We do not have £250m like Pep and Jose will have to spunk on players, so we can't buy success. Patience and support is needed now. Oh and the players need to shut up and stop talking themselves up.}
24 Apr 2017 08:22:18
Thanks Ed001, I for one needed this reply after feeling dejected with that performance. Hopefully Klopp is given time and freedom to get this right. After the next 4 matches, the world might seem a lot brighter, we shall see.
{Ed001's Note - fingers crossed.}
24 Apr 2017 09:13:45
Couldn't agree more Ed. We need to low this squad to develop and grow. I'm sure some added quality will come in during the summer. We need to learn patience as fans and stop demanding and new starting 11 every summer. 2 or 3 top quality additions in the summer and then replace any departures to ensure added depth from the bench.
Give the squad and the management time, hopefully FSG already know this and will do just that.
24 Apr 2017 09:45:09
How much time do we give them, yesterday was not a one of game it's been thr problem for years that we can't break teams down that doesn't come down to the manger it comes down to players not being able to. The only one who looks any good yesterday was coutinho.
The defence side off are game has not improved one bit . By the way I'm not having ago at anyone. I'm just saying money buys you quality players but it doesn't mean you win anything.
{Ed002's Note - Nothing to do with the manager?}
24 Apr 2017 09:41:41
Spurs finished 3rd last season. Pushed Leicester nearly to the very end and only gave up in the last few games when they knew the league title was gone and threw away 2nd place to Arsenal. That was Pochettino's second season in charge. I like Klopp, i love his energy but sooner or later the excuses have to stop. Next season is make or break in my opinion if we don't get top 4 this season. We shall see.
24 Apr 2017 10:00:32
Our recruitment of defenders and goalkeepers is absolutely horrendous.
That being said, certain managers can get worse players to play better defensively. We haven't recruited good defenders and goalkeepers but we certainly don't get the most out of what we have.
I think it was a great reply from ed001 👏.
24 Apr 2017 10:48:03
you might be right about the defenders ron but i don't think your right about the keepers as even though we treated and some fans talk rubbish about karius he was really highly thought off and migonlet look ed like a really top keeper at a lowly sunderland maybe its something the club trainers do when they arrive.
24 Apr 2017 11:03:02
bruffio - I think we should be buying keepers who can cope with pressure on high balls in the box. Karius may have been highly rated in Germany but you don't face as much pressure on high balls in Germany. Anyone who had watched him in Germany could see he flaps at the ball. It was a clear weakness which the club has done nothing to help him with.
24 Apr 2017 12:52:34
Have the club done nothing to help him with it Ron? Who knows, we haven't seen him play for months!
24 Apr 2017 14:08:32
Spot on, Ed. We have had SIX losses this season yet after every loss, some fans act like the season is over and Klopp is useless and he needs to be sacked. The over-reaction after every loss or bad result is becoming boring and tedious. Even when we win, there is something to moan about as for some, the club, players and Klopp can do NOTHING right.
It seems wallowing in self-pity has become the norm with some fans and adopting Murphy's Law is now seen as the best way to go cos hey, at least they won't be disappointed when crap hits the fan. That is the wrong mentality and Ed01 touched on this beautifully. Spurs and Poch was given tinme cos in his first season, Spurs finished 5th and he was able to build from there and even the FA Cup game showed that they still have a ways to go as their inexperience showed in that game. If they fired him after his first season, you think they would be as far ahead s they are right now? Had BVB fired Klopp after his first couple of midtable finishes, would they have become champions and gotten close to winning the CL under him?
If you wanna rip everything up after every loss, then you will be wallowing in self pity forever. Klopp has improved us this season and the points total and goals scored bears that out and not winning the PL in his first season (as if any other manager has in 27 yrs) will NOT change that. There is still far to go and more work needs to be done and he himself has said that and recognized HIS mistakes a lot this season. Keep the faith and we WILL get CL footie this season.
24 Apr 2017 14:40:24
Tbf ron atcheburg has been using body bags to pressurise the keeper when coming for crosses. So it has been identified as a weakness. But no amount of training can give a keeper the bottle to come for crosses in a crowd or ne prepared to take a hit while doing so. Both karius and migs have been guilty of not manning up on that front.
24 Apr 2017 14:50:36
Ron, pretty much all the pictures you see from Melwood of Karius training he is catching high balls with coaches bumping/ buffering him with pads to get him more used to the physicality of the Prem and dealing with high balls. Not sure what more they can do to help him deal with that than train him up to deal with it better?
24 Apr 2017 15:24:55
Yeah, sorry I meant they did nothing to help him with it before throwing him into the lions den of the premier league.
24 Apr 2017 20:59:56
Ron when you say other managers have done better with worse defenders, which defenders and how do you class worse? I mean if those defenders have done better then surely they are better defenders? If only done better in the odd game then so have the LFC ones. If we mean ball playing ability i don't know that makes worse defenders.
The goals on Sunday and others have shown these are not good defenders. May not be awful but aren't good and in some cases suffer from ball watching and lack of positional awareness. These are things they should have been coached out of in their teens and it does raise the question can they be coached to be better in the time required?
24 Apr 2017 00:22:08
Quick thoughts (besides being absolutely gutted, trying to be rational here)
The first 60 minutes weren't too bad actually, thought we controlled the game pretty well, and apart from one really poor piece of defending for Bentekes first (where they opened us up ridiculously easily and no-one tracked any runners - where was the defense? ) we didn't give too many other chances away but created a reasonable amount. Brilliant goal from Coutinho apart though we lacked the killer touch and there were theee notable issues in converting possession into goals IMO
1) It was mostly poor delivery from Clyne who failed on numerous occasions to look dangerous from good positions
2) Coutinho kept dropping into midfield, which was fine, but we lacked any quality on the overlap outside him, and likewise missed a fullback able to get in behind on the left
3) This was a game we really missed Llalanas energy and creativity, with Can and Gini struggling to create anything in the tight spaces
The last 30mins however we really started to panic and I thought the nervousness of the race for top4 got to us. We needed a change on about 65mins to shake things up but there very little Klopp felt confident turning too off the bench which was a major problem, and we let the game stagnate which gave Palace increasing confidence. Predictably another silly mistake from defense, a soft corner and we concede yet again from a set piece (why don't our own corners ever seem so dangerous? ) . I think being able to turn to Sturridge when we were in control but struggling to score would have been a major boost and forced Palace to move to a much more defensive mindset, such a shame he couldn't at least make the bench.
What I think Klopp should have done is put on TAA for Clyne, taken off Lucas and pushed Can deeper, dropping Coutinho into midfield, then let Woodburn have 30mins on the wing. As it was it turned into a bit of a shapeless mess and we took a major blow in the race.
The good news is though, the Manchester Derby is yet to come and some tough games left for Man Utd too so let's not panic just yet. Hopefully with Llalana back and maybe Hendo too we can strengthen things up again and push on. Keep the faith and here's to Klopp getting a new CB and one or even two FBs in the summer.
24 Apr 2017 09:41:46
Honestly i don't think we will get 4th, players are bottling it again. Hope they prove me wrong but just can't see it.
24 Apr 2017 09:44:50
Sorry but I thought we were poor all game. Take away Coutinho's goal and we where slow and predictable with many of our players just not at the races. Wijnaldum, Can, Origi and even Firmino just not firing.
Then you look at our back line, Milner was poor, slow to attack and even slower defensively with Clyne the same but worse because, well how many times can you get forward only to hold or waste possession? Lovren, least said about him the better and Matip wasn't much better.
You can't fault Mignolet today, couldn't do much with the goals. Midfield was just nonexistent and has to take some of the blame for our defensive woeful defense as Palace just breezed past them, both Can and Wijnaldum may as well not have been on the pitch.
The worst thing for me is that everyone could see we had lost our momentum and things needed to change but Klopp waits until inside 80 mins, I mean what's the point?! We have 2 young players with pace which could of got at Palace given time and who comes on Moreno? I just don't get it, Klopp was working slower than Lovren and that is saying something!
24 Apr 2017 10:19:31
What exactly is happening behind Wilson and Ojo. A team that has no pace up front should play either one. It's a no brainer to me. Are they not good enough?
24 Apr 2017 10:55:28
natural poolie how can you have a go at firminio he may not have been effective upfront as you want against a back 6 which he did get behind a time or two, one of the few who made them runs but the lad run every yard of the pitch harrying and closing down and even found himself in the right back position behind clyne who would have been caught out more if not for him and even although your right about can and matip letting benteke ghost away what that was an example of is the frailty of zonal marking because all you seen in that goal position ways was all and i mean liverpool players marking the space and not attacking the ball or marking men. If your going to have a go understand what your seeing first.
{Ed001's Note - that is not a weakness of the system, it is a weakness of our players. Not attacking the ball and not blocking off runs are the two things we struggle with. That is why we concede. We have no organisation from the keeper or the centre backs, no one is doing their job. If we were man marking the problems would be the same, it is just people would blame the individual players, rather than the system.}
24 Apr 2017 11:56:13
Bruffio you answered your own question. Getting behind them once or twice in 90 mins in a game against an opponent who let us have possession and you call think that's good? Sorry but I stand by my opinion, they were all poor.
24 Apr 2017 14:15:41
Spot on, Ed. I have mentioned this numerous times. We have a load of buck-passers who just stand there hoping that the ball will clear itself. There is no bottle amongst our defenders when it comes to being assertive in defensive situations like set-pieces. NOBODY takes charge, organizes and holds players accountable in such situations. No one wants to get their hands dirty and stick the boot in. Look at their second goal, and you will see what I'm talking about. even the Sunday League don't defend set pieces the way we do.
Man marking is even worse IMO, cos all you have to do is block players off (picked as they say in the NFL) and the a man or two will be free and the problem will be the same, as you said. The best system is a mix of zonal and man marking in certain areas of the box BUT the problems will remain if our players have the gutless defensive mentality they have now.
23 Apr 2017 23:42:04
Corporal Jones here - 'Don't panic! '. The Champions' League is not yet out of reach. The other candidates still have to play each other so there will be more points dropped. Our next match isn't until Monday week by which time the others will have played two more games and we will have a better idea of the situation. Those matches include a Manchester derby and a North London derby.
If by then we don't look like finishing in the Top 4 I would replace Clyne and Lovren (neither fit for purpose) with Alexander-Arnold and Joe Gomez. We have qualified for the Europa League so we will have a busier programme next season. I just hope that the Management team realise that all four competitions are important, not only to win but so that the club doesn't become the laughing-stock that it has been allowed to be in recent times. Unfortunately we are no longer number one but the Johnny-come-latelies still have a longer way to go before they can be spoken of in the same breath as Liverpool.
24 Apr 2017 09:35:54
Without Mane, we are done for.
24 Apr 2017 14:16:20
Did you say that after we beat Stoke and WB without Mane? Another ridiculous comment.