Liverpool Banter Archive October 23 2017

23 Oct 2017 23:09:02
Klopp has to stand up and be counted now boys. No more hiding, no more excuses he has to be ruthless and if needs be adapt the tactics until Jan to offer more solidity to the defence otherwise he won't be round long to push things on further which would be a shame considering the attacking ability of our team under Klopp but we need it both ways not just attack!


For me he has the Jan window to fix the problem or he has to leave for failing to address it.

Hendo is finished unfortunatley.
Lovren is crap.
Matip too weak.
Migs a joke.
Firminio not scoring enough as a CF
Sturridge robbing a wage.
Can is already in Italy.


Stand up and be counted or jog on!

Who wears the shirt now with real desire and passion?

23 Oct 2017 23:54:51
Hendo isn't finished, that is ridiculous. He's not 37 he's 27 (I think, could well be wrong) he played one of the nicest passes of the weekend. He is England and Liverpool captain. For me he is still improving. Something I noticed on Sunday that never gets mentioned about Jordan, the speed with which he picks a pass and moves the ball on. In a split second he knows where he wants the ball to go. His mental reactions are pretty amazing. In a week that firmino scored 2 goals, to say he isn't scoring is wrong. I do get your point but trust me, we are lucky to have Bobby firmino. Most underrated player in the league for me. If you only watch motd he can be frustrating sometimes but if you Wat h him week in week out he is fantastic and any talk of replacing him is just crazy. Our forward thinking wingers provide the goals with Bobby mopping up along with coutinio. I'm actually worried we could lose firmino in the summer if we have a poor season.

Migs is poor. He has done a lot of good things for our club but it's time to part ways. There are only a couple of Pl gks I wouldn't take over migs. I like fabianski, I think he is realistic and an improvement on migs. We could probably do a swap deal with the swans in January. Maybe he ain't good enough to be our no1 forever but he is in fine form atm.

I don't think lovren is crap I think he is in crap form. I think we need two upgrades at cb but lovren can get us into the top four. We know that because he has done it before.

Matip IS weak you're right. One of the reasons he NEVER scores from corners I guess.

We lost, away to the team who have finished 2nd and 3rd in the last two years. We will do them at home trust me. It's not a disaster yet.

23 Oct 2017 23:37:58
'For me he has the Jan window to fix the problem or he has to leave for failing to address it. '

If you expect Klopp to address all the positions needed in January your delusional. How many players do you exactly expect us to sign in January?

24 Oct 2017 00:04:40
I don't agree with your points superred and can't abide with watchin the same errors week in week out.

Hendo is not the player he was pre injury and I fear he never will be, one pass does not change that. I wish he was the player pre injury but he is not.

I watch every match lfc play week in week out and I agree bobby works hard but the main job of a striker is to score goals and the many opportunities that fall his way he does not take can be the difference between winning and losing a vital game.

Sorry Lovren is crap he would not get into Tottenham, Utd, City, Chelsea, Arsenal side hell brighton wouldn't take him over their two starting players!

Klopp is very much in the headlights and players like Migs and Lovren will not shake that. We have no more time for waiting for form or a change etc the manager must alter the tactics and sign better players ready for the fight.

There is no knee jerk reactions here I have much patience with players and teams but when a player is not good enough you have to have the notion to say he's not good enough rather than look for some hope of something that will not transpire.

24 Oct 2017 00:12:53
Not at all delisional, he failed to sign the players needed to strenghten the defence in the summer window, do you suggest we just pass through the Jan window aswell and just let the season dwindle?

We don't need masses of players so I don't really understand your problem or what you expect is needed to fix the team, Two CBs would be ample and I would give ward or karius a run.

Not really that difficult is it?

24 Oct 2017 02:08:00
I don't think we will do much in January. Maybe VVD or another cb but that's it. I'm not keen on too many changes during the season. Could turn a poor season into a bad one.

I don't think we are that far away from a challenge. Sadly it won't be this year. Three or four signings from the title. One of those is done (keita)

24 Oct 2017 07:50:28
I actually think that injury has ruined Henderson and Sturridge’s careers as they’re shadows of the players they were. The OP has a reasonable point in there.

24 Oct 2017 10:16:22
Stop regurgitating eds explanation for why we don't need a striker.

Our wingers don't score the goals why firmino sweeps up. Or yea they do but that is simply not sustainable. You have to have a goal scorer up top.

Unless mane hits Ronaldo numbers then it doesn't work, but even if he did you still need fir on at least 16/ 18. He's been absolute bollox the last week's. His only redeeming feature for me is his hard work which has been none exsistent the past weeks which leave me wonder8ng what he actually offers if he doesn't run around every ten seconds.

24 Oct 2017 14:04:16
He cleared the ball off the line. He is working hard. Salah has scored as much as anyone so I don't buy the fact that we need a new striker.

Henderson isn't finished. No way. And lovren isn't crap. You lot might not agree but he isn't. He has been bang off form but it was only 18 months ago that lovren was a hero on Merseyside. Put lovren next to a top class cb and he will be much better.

He would get into arsenal back four and possibly utd.

24 Oct 2017 17:07:05
Lovren isn't crap? Mate do you even watch Liverpool? I stopped reading your slop as soon as I read that.

{Ed025's Note - a lot would agree with him rob mate..

24 Oct 2017 17:40:20
Agree with him as in Lovren isn't that bad? Fair enough ed025, everyone has their opinion, but I just can't bare watch him and Mignolet play for my club week in week out. Accidents waiting to happen, and we see it consistently.

23 Oct 2017 21:40:24
Evening Ed’s just come off me shift spoke to a true red who I work with very nice guy anyway I find this absolutely disgusting if it is true that lovren has received death treats apparently if it is true we reds needs to hang our heads in shame football is football leave that rubbish on the pitch.

{Ed025's Note - i cant confirm or deny that Wer but if true its a bloody disgrace mate..

23 Oct 2017 21:46:14
Nor Can I Ed’s but I believe this guy in Work nothing would make me disbelieve him I really hope it’s not true shame always one that does things like this hey Ed cheers mate for taking time to read my post and reply keep the faith mate and good work.

{Ed025's Note - cheers mate..

23 Oct 2017 21:48:58
Whoever does such things are just not right in their dome are they. Need locking up people like that, weirdos why would you send death threats to him? Totally out of order and will probably disrupt him further now. His football doesn't come into it when he's been threatened, it's wrong.

{Ed025's Note - it is mate..

23 Oct 2017 22:04:48
When you think about what he's been through already over here, and then this. If I was him I'd want out immediately, no matter what money you have it can;t be nice going through such things, him or his family doesn;t deserve that no matter what. It'd be better for him and his family to go elsewhere and of course us going on yesterdays performance but with something like this, that doesn't even come into it.

I hope come summer he will be gone, and he can get on with his career without this kind of nonsense going on from so called fans.

23 Oct 2017 22:31:26
Just some numpty. He thought when he woke up "how can I motivate dejan lovren from my settee? I know I'll threaten to blow his head off! That'll get him playing for sure!

Hmm Xmas present for Jurgen klopp? Tough man to buy for! I know ak47.

I know I'm contradicting myself but these muppets should be ignored. If that fails they should be committed.

23 Oct 2017 22:50:04
Wrong?! It’s an absolute disgrace! How on earth do we expect the best players to want to play for us when we have cretins like these threatening players’ lives when they have a bad game?! Actually forget football! On a human level this is absolutely disgraceful! The guy had a shocker no doubt but it’s a bloody game! Klopp came to us thinking we had the best fans who would get behind the team and push us to glory. He’s spent his first season trying to facilitate it. I think by now he must realise that there is no way back for some of our fans and it wouldn’t surprise me if he jumps ship because these inhuman turds are a disease running through the club at the moment.

23 Oct 2017 20:52:09
In all my life as a Liverpool fan I've always known us to play with a specialist goalscorer from Keegan to Toshack to Dalglish, Rush, Fowler, Owen, Torres, Suarez, Sturridge (sadly past his best now) .

Look at the our rivals in the big six: Aguero, Lukaku, Kane, Sanchez, Morata.

Firminho is a top player but he's never a no.9

But he would make a perfect foil for a real striker.

Pity Klopp can't see that.

Watching us this season it's clear that a real goalscorer would put away most of the chances our forward line are fluffing.

Which is what makes me all the more angry we pissed £35m up the wall for Ox when we're already well stacked in midfield. We're creating enough chances, there's just no one around who can convert them.

23 Oct 2017 21:26:44
Salah has scored more than morata and sachez. Nice try.

It's is not the top end of the field that needs sorting. No need to invent problems when we have enough real ones mate.

23 Oct 2017 21:33:53
Red mist got it in one there mate.

23 Oct 2017 21:47:14
Redmist, none of your points are relevant to Liverpool's problems.

Its the manager who cannot adjust to teams sitting back against us, not the players.

If you had highlighted the words 'defence' and 'keeper' then possibly 'manager knows only one way to play', then I would tend to agree with you.

23 Oct 2017 21:49:54
Redmist. Please don't bring up the striker debat as a lot of people on here think everything is ok in that department. We have firmino who according to a lot on here is the real deal up front. He is or will never be a striker IMO but is a fantastic player. I do agree with superred82 that there more there are more problematic areas than up top. Gk and defence is what we need to worry about first.

23 Oct 2017 17:49:50
Question for Ed001 if you’re about mate. If the results continue to be poor and Klopp were to be sacked. Who would you like to see in charge at Liverpool?
For me I’d take a go on Marco Silva, for me this guy would take us places, I know he’s inexperienced in the PL so far but his record is good for a guy at a ‘lesser’ team in Watford and also Hull. The guy is good tactically and makes his team organised. This is just my opinion. What are your thoughts?

{Ed001's Note - if I could choose anyone it would be Sarri. However that is probably unrealistic, so, if it is a take a punt on someone choice, I would have to put Marcelino in for consideration.}

23 Oct 2017 19:25:15
If Sarri could be poached I would be all over that. But I think Klopp can provide a good winnable team given time and tge right scouts and back room staff.

23 Oct 2017 19:55:11
If Marcelino was manager he'd get rid of half the squad as he won't allow any player with a Body Fat Index over 9.5 to play. I think he is right at the very top of the best managers in Europe.

23 Oct 2017 19:57:38
Would bielsa be an option?

23 Oct 2017 19:53:53
Who does sarri manage ed?

{Ed025's Note - napoli mate..

23 Oct 2017 21:28:28
Who wanted moreno in the summer.

{Ed025's Note - accrington?..

23 Oct 2017 22:47:39
Lol ed025. I'm the self appointed chairman of the Alberto moreno appreciation society these days. I go on about him coz he has surprised me. I can't tell you how down I was about him last year/ year and a half.
If his haters were an army I would have been a f*****g general. No a field Marshall.

Some players don't deserve the stick they get but moreno did deserve it. He handed seville the final and ucl qualification, after cuddling them all in the tunnel. I was fuming! But he has won me round. I thought his comment recently in the echo telling his detractors "they can shut up now" was a bit lary but actually fair play to him, he is a decent little footballer. A little iffy at the back but really good going forward. I hope he keeps improving.

{Ed025's Note - to be fair superred he has improved this season, how long that will last is any ones guess though mate..

23 Oct 2017 16:16:24
Klopp says we need leaders. Passion? I say we need players who just love defending. Not failed midfielders, or ball playing centre backs.

I don't want to hear after January "there was nobody available". I can name 4 affordable centre backs who are born defenders, quick enough to play a high line, good in the air, and have good organisational qualities; off the top of my head.

They don't need to be world class on the ball. Robert Huth, Wes Morgan, John Terry, Nemanja Vidic, Gary Cahill, Martin Keown, Tony Adams and Ricardo Carvalho have league winners medals because they are defensively minded, reliable and give 100%. Not because they can go past people and play line splitting passes. You get the odd freak such as Hansen, Ramos, Hummels, Ferdinand or Kompany who can play as well as they defend, but it is normally one or the other. Carragher was no Agger, but Agger was no Carragher

Danny Batth. Angus MacDonald. Sean Morrison. Jamaal Lascelles.

I don't care if they aren't the best ball players in the world. Gomez and Matip can play a pass. However they both need someone next to them who will rip them to pieces for losing concentration or lazily trotting back.

We can't go on having Firmino as the only player who read the game well enough to get back onto the goal line. He's our number 9 for god sake!

23 Oct 2017 16:47:48
Hilarious.

23 Oct 2017 17:08:59
Bold selection there MK. I have only seen Jamaal Lascelles play, though I would love to hear ED's feedback on how Danny Batth, Angus MacDonald and Sean Morrison play.

On a sidenote, we have 2 months till the transfer window opens. I'd go for Matip / Lovren and Gomez in the staring role till then and see how they perform given a consistent run.

{Ed001's Note - Danny Baath is not very good, most Wolves fans would not pick him in their team! He is a trier but lacks genuine ability. Sean Morrison I have not really seen enough of to judge to be honest. Is MacDonald the Barnsley centre back? The one they got from the Conference? Otherwise I don't know him. If it is him, he looks a very decent defender to be honest. Not seen enough to see if he is ready to step up to the Prem though.}

23 Oct 2017 17:11:35
Good post mk.

23 Oct 2017 17:49:27
We have needed defenders for 5yrs and nothing has been done about it save for 1 high profile tapping up. I do not expect the situation to change in january. I know ed1 will say we have been trying and there is no quality etc but i can't believe there are not better options than the ones we have been lumbered with for so many years.

23 Oct 2017 18:32:07
The only one of those I’d take is Lascelles, the rest are piss poor! I take issue with your comments on Ricardo Carvalho, he was superb on the ball and a brilliant defender, he made John Terry a better defender.

23 Oct 2017 20:13:29
3 defenders have been bought in 18 months for less than 15mil total. That is not enough. You can't get the quality you need to win the league for that sort of money. Who looked at klavan and thought "he'd be good, I think it's his lack of pace and positional sense that will make him a success in the premier league"? Without trying to sound racist (I'm really not) it's a case of a German underestimating the English. Yes I did just equate klopp with Hitler. I love klopp but that was a piss poor signing. It means millions of fans putting their hopes on an under 21 player, gomes as we have no viable options bar gomes, who looks small for a cb still. Who is scouting for us? Because aside from mane and salah the signings have been a little underwhelming so far. I think the ox will come good and wijnaldum is okay. Okay the signings have been okay (u turn) but karius, klavan, matip and Robertson are pretty shocking signings for a team with European cup ambitions. Robertson will come good I reckon.

I don't get why gibson wasn't bought in the summer. We could of definitely got him, good relationship with hendo I would guess. VVD in January. Do we still think we are VVD s first choice? I dunno. You look at the teams around us and they all have high class cbs and GK. It is no surprise we have fallen behind. You know our back line is poor when moreno is the stand out performer in the line. In fairness to moreno he has been good lately and sometimes excellent.

Matip header that set up Ali was an amazing header. for a cf! What was he doing? That should've been put out for a corner znd the ref would have probably blown the whistle before they could take corner. I could moan forever about Sundays performance. I think our top four chances are slipping away. I said spurs was a massive game for us but after losing Huddersfield is massive. If we lose then klopp will genuinely start to be questioned. I hate it but it's a fact and if we fail to get out of our group in ucl and are outside the top six come Xmas I think he might be gone.

I think he should be given time but I also think we have fallen behind spurs, man utd and city. We have underperformed and we have a top player running his contract down. We have a star player who doesn't wanna be here. We have highly limited options at the back and we have three keepers all playing. We have played more players in goal than we have at centre forward. That is effing ridiculous.

Come on klopp, prove me right as I have always been in your corner! Show the doubters why we think you a world class manager! You're a good guy but you need to be ruthless. These are highly paid professionals not you nieces and nephews.

For f*** sake. pick a keeper and stick with him. *hint hint* it ain't mignolet.

We did well to finish fourth and klopp was told he had 200 Mil to spend! Last summer was the time to spend it as we had a bit of draw being in ucl. It's going to be even harder next summer if we don't get fourth.

23 Oct 2017 20:55:07
BTW, how sad that only nine games in and I am aiming for fourth. I'm sorry but there is NO WAY we are winning this league. Third seems ambitious.

23 Oct 2017 18:28:36
Thanks for the reply ED 001! Yes, Angus MacDonald plays for Barnsley.

{Ed001's Note - he has only just come up from non-league footie, he might not be the best choice in the position we are in. He would almost certainly need time to adjust to the Prem.}

25 Oct 2017 16:57:59
Lascelles looks tempting, I got to say. Aside from defending well at Newcastle, I think he has exactly the kind of attitude that's missing in our dressing room.

The problem is he's got little Prem experience, only 25 apps or so, and is playing in a deeper defensive line than we use (although the FBs do push on a bit so he has to do some covering) . Ideally I'd like him to stay at Newcastle for another bit and develop his game more, but we need a central defender now and I suspect someone will come in for him in the next 18 months.

Do we take the risk that he steps up? I'm not sure.

23 Oct 2017 13:45:54
................

{Ed002's Note - This is the Liverpool page - take it to the Everton page.}

23 Oct 2017 14:13:40
There's an Everton page 😲 i honestly thought Ed025 was only one who could use a PC 😉 cheers 002, will do.

23 Oct 2017 14:19:57
Go easy on him MK he's not a bad lad for a Blue nose.

23 Oct 2017
New image uploaded to the
Liverpool Player Sightings page entitled, Lighten the mood. Keita watching the game.

23 Oct 2017 12:38:20
Hi Ed how's the blood pressure after yesterday mate?

{Ed001's Note - mine or Ed025? Mine is fine, after the weekend I had the football wasn't so bad. There was a problem with the waste pipe from the toilet - a bathroom flooded with urine and excrement that requires cleaning up is not a fun task. After that though, nothing seems so bad!}

23 Oct 2017 12:54:25
That put's everything into perspective. Was talking to a lot of genuine fan's I know and they are getting really frustrated with JK although not calling for his head just yet. Now one thing that they did say is what about his two assistants isn't on of them called The Brain? Why also as you said he was playing Migs knowing he is crap? Is it his German stubbornness Ed?

{Ed001's Note - Buvacs is 'the Brain' isn't he? He is supposed to be the tactics guy. It does not seem to be stubbornness at all, that is the worrying thing. At least him being stubborn makes sense and you can get your head around it. It just seems to have become a situation he got himself stuck in. From what I am told, he felt it was a mistake to drop Karius because of the pressure and now he has brought Migs in he doesn't want to make the same mistake. Hopefully yesterday has ended the discussion and Mignolet will now be dropped.}

23 Oct 2017 13:21:21
I agree Migs should be dropped but I believe Ward shod be giving a go. Ward was a more constant performer last season and Klopp is just leaving him out in the cold. The guy deserves him chance, Migs and Karius have had theirs and now it's Wards turn.

Baz.

23 Oct 2017 13:21:56
He should never have dropped Karius mate. This might sound a little off the wall Ed but yesterday's ass kicking by Spurs could be the best thing to happen to the team because now he has to sort this out once and for all.

23 Oct 2017 14:45:44
Barry I had a similar thought to you mate, maybe that is what it took to get things changed, if it takes us getting battered by spurs then so be it, as long as we see changes next week.

Baz Karius was barely given a chance mate, can;t write him off after 10 games, people also seem to forget he had just come back from a broken hand.

23 Oct 2017 16:26:39
Well as Ed001 said JK does regret dropping Karius mate.

23 Oct 2017 15:52:05
Omg ed01! That sounds like the worst type of problem mate. A tonne of human waste on the floor, no no I meant Ronald koeman with 150 Mil to spend.

Nah, is that true dude? That sounds awful. Certainly puts things in perspective. Hope it's sorted and you and yours are safe mate.

{Ed001's Note - it was just like having the Everton teams performances this season dumped all over the floor. I was not enjoying cleaning it up. I don't even remember the last time I had corn or green beans but there was a lot of both there.... I still feel sick.}

23 Oct 2017 16:55:51
The Return of the Sweet corn!
Nasty vegetable Ed.

{Ed001's Note - they sell what they call magic corn in all the malls, I just never knew what was magic about it before now.}

23 Oct 2017 17:57:26
Haha magic corn, don't tell me there is also a cow and a giant somewhere in this tale. 😂.

23 Oct 2017 11:46:25
Ed01 gives us what your solutions would be to this mess can it be fixed to get us through to January?

{Ed001's Note - putting Karius or Ward in goal would go a long way towards improving matters. That is how we have to look at it, improvements, not a fix, just forward steps.

Getting Migs out for either of those two would be more of a giant leap forward, so that has to be first.

Unfortunately we have to go with one of Matip or Lovren, but putting Gomez alongside would be a step in the right direction. He has pace, strength and is good on the ball.

That means TAA at right back, but he needs the experience and him, Gomez and Karius/Ward are not going to make as many errors due to their inexperience over the course of the season as Migs and Lovren made yesterday alone. We just can't rely on the experienced lads sadly.

The other main thing is Can and Henderson have to sit, if we concede give one more freedom, but for now sit both in front of the defence and tell them to cover. The defence has no protection and is not good enough to get away without help.

If we don't drop Migs, then nothing else will matter, as he is the main source of all the uncertainty. If the pair in midfield hold and work at protecting the defence, then it provides much more freedom to the fullbacks without exposing us. That gives Gomez two months to see if he is a long term answer in centre back, while we find a replacement for Matip in the side.}

23 Oct 2017 12:23:55
Would it be feasible to place Milner at RB to have some experience next to Gomez whilst he beds in at CB? A Defence of Trent and Gomez with Ward in goal is very inexperienced.

{Ed001's Note - I would not put Milner's experience in any team. I know people seem to think he did well at left back, but I thought he was awful. I do not see what the guy offers other than lots of huff and puff in the wrong areas of the pitch. He is never where you want him to be.}

23 Oct 2017 12:36:56
I agree ed! I think if klopp doesn't ring the changes that fans will quickly turn on him! We can't rely on the forwards bailing us all the time while the defence balls up!

{Ed001's Note - it is madness to keep persisting with the 3 experienced players that are consistently at fault for every goal. If he doesn't make changes then he would only have himself to blame if he ends up getting sacked.}

23 Oct 2017 13:56:45
Exactly.

Juncture time. Stick or twist with both potentially resulting in the sack.

Matip, Gomez and ward.

Matip, Lovren and mignolet.

Come on klopp show some balls.

23 Oct 2017 16:12:10
I agree ed01. The argument for not playing ward, taa and gomez is that their inexperience will lead to mistakes and we will lose games.

If the experienced guys are making mistakes and losing us games then what is there to lose? In fact we stand to gain three young and experienced players.

Gomez isn't even a gamble. He has been really good at times. Taa is one of the best footballers at the club so no big risk there. I'm not 100% on ward, I would go with karius. You need some stability back there.

23 Oct 2017 14:58:20
I broadly agree Ed, but I do think TAA, Gomez, Ward and Moreno all together is a bit of a recipe for problems.

i think the strongest defensive setup we can go with is Moreno, Matip, Gomez, Milner and Karius at the back. I think TAA is a big talent but needs more physicality and aerial presence before he can face the top teams. Milner has his flaws but he’s a seasoned pro and would take the responsibility to fix the problems seriously - he’s a fighter.

{Ed001's Note - Milner is not a fighter though, he is a nothing player, who tries but actually does nothing. He can't defend and he can't attack, he just runs around achieving the sum total of nothing.}

23 Oct 2017 11:24:36
Morning after the night before and we are all feeling the same, but to differing degrees.

Giving thought to our problems in central defence and what can be done in the medium term (we are stuck with things till January) . Most of us await whether we try for VVD again, but I express a note of caution should we choose to. I share Ed 001's concerns with regards to him. Centre backs are all about pairings. If we were to acquire VVD he doesn't bring leadership and the demanding presence which we so lack and he isn't an organiser. Like I say, it's all about the right pairing which doesn't necessarily have to comprise the best individual centre halves (though it can help) . Our best pair of centre backs in recent years were Hyypia and Henchoz. Henchoz certainly wasn't the most gifted but together they had a terrific understanding and complimented one another, which led to our success.

I'm struggling to offer alternatives to VVD, but I'm merely offering a note of caution to those who may think he alone will provide a quick fix, as I can't see him forming a partnership, as mentioned, with anyone in our current squad.

23 Oct 2017 12:04:18
I completely agree about VVD, i just can't see why is rated so highly or so expensively for that matter. He is a stronger version of Matip.

23 Oct 2017 13:04:29
Agree Rome! I don’t think VVD is all that, also I’ve been thinking, are they’re not any good central defenders playing in the championship read to make the step up?

23 Oct 2017 10:15:52
Do you think Klopp will make any changes to his defensive unit, for the foreseeable future? He must be fed up with his defence and GK by now! Why has a top class GK not been a priority?! Thanks.

{Ed025's Note - god only knows redward mate..

23 Oct 2017 10:37:38
I was thinking about this earlier and what can he do short term?

Drop Mignolet for Ward/ Karius but then what?

We have no proper holding midfielder because Lucas, Stewart and Chirivella all left in the summer. Our only other centre back is Klavan. Robertson is decent enough, but Moreno hasn't really been the problem.

We just don't have the personel required to make the changes. Who out of Arnold, Klavan and Robertson would you have put in yesterday that would've made a big impact defensively? That's two offensive wing backs and a mid 30's centre back.

The only thing he can do until January is put Ward in for Mignolet and play Gomez at centre back. It is worth pointing out to people though that Gomez will make mistakes because he is only 20, and playing him centre back means Arnold plays right back who will also make mistakes as he learns. Sadly, we pretty much need to ride this one out until January.

23 Oct 2017 11:10:22
Defensive unit? What defensive unit?
We don't bother with such trivialities!
We outscore everyone.
Without a striker.

23 Oct 2017 09:30:24
Hello Eds,
Watching the build up to Dele Alli's goal, i could not help but notice the fact that the whole defensive line acted like robots, followed the ball, while Dele simply positioned himself to receive the second ball. Almost as if the person who took the free-kick had predicted exactly how we would defend the ball.

{Ed001's Note - they probably did, as most teams that work on set pieces have at least one person who studies the opposition in advance to see how they set up and defend set pieces. Then they will look for ways to exploit any gaps. Sam Allardyce used to base large parts of his game around little things like that. Attention to details like that is why he was able to get disproportionate success with the teams he managed.}

23 Oct 2017 09:42:13
Would have been avoided if Mignolet had shouted to Matip to leave it.

23 Oct 2017 09:46:55
Allardyce in Ed001? 🤔😉.

{Ed001's Note - hahahaha.}

23 Oct 2017 10:16:24
It gets me that we always have so many players in the box for set pieces. It doesn't excuse migs but if we had a few attackers spread up the pitch to the halfway line the attacking team wouldn't be able to commit so many numbers. We might be able to properly zonal mark that way and with our pace- we could easily turn dangerous defensive positions into precarious attacks for our opponents.

{Ed001's Note - agreed mate, I hate seeing teams bringing every player back to defend corners and free kicks. One man up forces the attacking team to leave 2 back to cover him.}

23 Oct 2017 10:14:56
Thanks Ed001, but another thing do we actually have a defensive coach? And what exactly do you think is Lovren's problem? Or are we just expecting more than he is capable of delivering?

{Ed001's Note - we have coaches who work on the defensive side of the game, but I don't believe we have a coach purely for defending. If that makes sense. I am not sure I worded that well.

As for Lovren, his head is clearly not in it. He has always struggled a bit to keep focused on football, this season it is clear his head is elsewhere. Maybe related to the robbery he has talked about? Maybe it is bothering him still, I have no idea.}

23 Oct 2017 10:29:41
Validation from ed1. Best day ever! 😆.

{Ed001's Note - I fear for you if this is your best day!! I will get Ed025 to send you a pic of himself in his speedos tomorrow to make it an even better day....}

23 Oct 2017 10:39:29
I agree aoe, but for Spurs 3rd goal they only had 2 players in our box and out of our 10 we managed to mark none of them 😂.

23 Oct 2017 10:46:44
Regarding Lovern. I feel for the guy and what he has been going through in his personal life for the last year. It's been reported in the press that the guy his wife had an affair with a year ago is a Croatian gangster, they then threaten to kidnap his kids unless he paid them millions and the robbery this Summer (where he and his family were gassed) was part of these threats. Arrests have been made in Croatia.
Maybe Klopp is trying to help him through this.

23 Oct 2017 10:50:23
I wish to swiftly withdraw my previous statement.

{Ed025's Note - most women would give their right arm for one aoe..

23 Oct 2017 10:52:45
Yep bit of a shambles alright mk.

23 Oct 2017 11:06:29
Btw. I fully expect Lovern to be dropped now. Just giving background I've read as to explain why his head/ confidence could be all over the place.

23 Oct 2017 12:02:52
Ed001 we had a disagreement on defenders recently .
Do you still think that looking elsewhere other than VVD is unrealistic . ? The CB we have are not the level we need but I don’t believe that they are as bad as we are seeing at the minute . Surely as previously stated there is a coaching/ tachctical/ organisation issue . Do you think Klopp and Liverpool would benefit from a proven premier league Defensive coach being brought in . Especially as the quality of defenders to purchase are not currently there .

{Ed001's Note - what proven Premier League defensive coach are you referring to? Does such a thing even exist?

The defenders are playing badly, there is an issue with the style of play being open, but good defenders can deal with that. Fergie at United used to leave his centre backs one on one with opposition attackers and their defensive record was excellent because they were good enough defenders and coped with it. Ours are so ridiculously inconsistent and their mentality is a problem as they fall apart under pressure, which is never a good sign.

Sadly I just don't see us getting any better defenders until we stop using stats to find them. Stats are a useful tool but they can't show you the basics of defending, even the guy who ran Midtylland's recruitment, a club that relied on stats as the owner also owned a statistics company (and Brentford), admitted that the stats do not work for recruiting defenders and you have to go watch them play. That is even more of a problem as our scouts clearly have not got a clue when it comes to finding defenders!}

23 Oct 2017 12:54:19
Thanks Ed’s nice insight . I was referring to a coach in the Ilk of Mike Phelan . J.

{Ed001's Note - ah got you. I thought you meant someone who worked only with defenders. I am not sure having someone like Phelan involved would do anything other than confuse the players to be honest. It would need to be someone who understands the Klopp tactical plan and coach the defenders how to work within it.

Mind I do think we need someone to be telling these players how to do the basics. Don't try and dribble the ball on the edge of your own box. Do not head it back across goal. Do not play offside when the midfield is not applying pressure on the ball. Always be aware of where your partner in the backline is, you should be checking on his position every few seconds to make sure you are in tandem, when they are not in your peripheral vision. Always look to be goalside of an attacker before making a challenge. When a ball is delivered into the box attack it. Sprint first for a loose ball then slow down when you are sure no one is chasing you, rather than job towards and give an opponent hope of beating you to it. Try not to leave space in behind a press for an out ball etc etc. Those are all basic things that a professional player should know by the time they turn pro.}

23 Oct 2017 08:50:45
apparently poor lovren removed LFC from his bio in instagram.

i hope we remove him from the squad peremnantly.

i blame klopp for sticking with him and presisting with playing with no actual defensive midfielder.

lets just hope we make it to top 4 somehow by the end of the season.

23 Oct 2017 09:25:45
He has to drop Migs, play Can in the DM, never play Milner in CM again unless vs Maribor, drop Lovren for Gomez. These are things Klopp can do right now that won't fix all our issues BUT will definitely help. Will he do it? We will see.

{Ed025's Note - he has to do something bingo, his job may depend on it mate..

23 Oct 2017 09:40:42
I would say he needs to drop Can as well, the guy does absolutely nothing since the transfer window has closed, like seriously he is in horrible form and keeps getting picked despite us being told Klopp doesn't rate him. Apparently Klopp wants rid of Mignolet as well but i don't believe that either anymore because he keeps picking him and he even gave him a new improved contract.

{Ed025's Note - that could be so as not to lose him for nothing if he ran his contract down mate..

23 Oct 2017 09:58:51
But we are already loosing him for nothing mate, he has obviously agreed to some sort of deal with Juventus and will be signing for them in 2 months, they might come back then and offer 10 million euros to get him now or something like that, but they are already signing him and he will not commit to a new contract and what are 10 million good for anyway. We're offering him 80 000 £ a week btw, 20 K less than the mighty Worldclass joker that is Lovren ;)

{Ed025's Note - i was talking about migs mate, sorry i should have made that a bit clearer..

23 Oct 2017 11:10:03
I wouldn’t worry about losing Migs for nothing, at this rate we will be paying another team to take him.

23 Oct 2017 07:51:42
Hi Eds, the clear consensus on here is a change in GK (Migs for Ward or Karius) and CB (Lovren for Gomez) . Do you think the 30 minute subbing of Lovren was. a watermark? Do you believe these changes will be made for the Huddersfield game or do you believe Klopp will stick?

{Ed025's Note - lovren was taken off due to a back problem spud he is still the main centre half at the club, i suspect the keeper situation may change though mate..

23 Oct 2017 08:19:46
Thanks Ed, I hope you’re right about the GK. Maybe Lovren’s injury will lead to him having a spell out, or perhaps that’s wishful thinking on my part!

{Ed025's Note - they are two problems that have needed addressing for some time now spud, for me it cant be fixed with the players at the club so it looks like january will be pivotal mate..

23 Oct 2017 09:02:34
Gomez is just better at his job than Lovren. Not because Gomez is so great but because Lovren has averaged around the incompetent mark for years and despite the occasional decent game, has never shown any sign of improving or wanting to improve.

Back pain doesn't cause you to run full pelt up the field, go for a flying jump and completely miss the ball whilst simultaneously opening up the defence. If he was too slow to get there, or pulled up on the chase, that could be back pain. But Lovren's performance for the second goal was just incompetence.

23 Oct 2017 06:54:23
You have been told by Klopp himself it's going to be a roller coaster ride of ups and downs swings and roundabouts. We played a very good side we were poor it's true but let's try supporting getting behind the club and doing what fans do best and driving the team forward whilst playing stop bitching and whining when it don't go our way
Up the pool.

23 Oct 2017 08:00:20
Were we poor though? We played some good stuff at times. The difference is Lloris made 2 saves he had no right to make, and Alderweireld made a couple of stunning tackles you think are impossible to win cleanly.

In contrast, Mignolet conceded 4 soft goals he should be doing better with, and Lovren missed a basic header and let Kane breeze past him.

On the balance of play, we were just as good as them. However they have players who can keep the ball out the net and that made the difference.

I don't think the majority of the team played that badly. In fact i think it was two teams playing some lovely football and for a neutral it must've been great. At the end of the day though, we made 4 glaring mistakes and you can't do that against good teams. It has over shadowed the rest of the play because Firmino, Coutinho, Salah and Chamberlain all played very well.

{Ed001's Note - Coutinho played very well? Do you really think so?}

23 Oct 2017 08:26:31
With you, Redan. I don't have a problem with things being a roller coaster ride. It is part of the process when you are building. However, there are things Klopp can do right now that IMO, will help mitigate against these defensive errors starting with binning the Migs for good, play Can in the DM role for a run of games give Gomez and Matip a good run in the team cos Lovren is an accident waiting to happen and has been since he's been here. I commend his attitude and playing thru pain BUT this maybe weighing too heavily on him mentally and physically. Klopp can do both these things right now and IMO, they would help.

23 Oct 2017 09:07:49
There are things that Klopp should have done 2 years ago, and some that are still in his power. He could easily do most of them, and could have fairly easy to do most of the missed opportunities. Mingolet might have let in 4 soft goals, but he's let in about 12 soft goals so far this season yet keeps his place while better keepers consider the pitch an unrealistic pipe dream. That very much makes it Klopps fault. Similarly we have a CB playing at RB whilst our current CB is a) incompetence and b) injured. Whose fault is that? Why isn't Klopp big enough to bench him till he's mended?

There is so much that could be done with our squad to return to balance and improve the ability, at least at the back. Klopp looks exactly like BR right now though - more concerned with being proved right than he is with fixing our issues.

23 Oct 2017 09:26:03
Yeah i do Ed. Every time he ran at them he created problems and Spurs played so narrow to try and stifle him that it constantly left Salah and Chambo 1-on-1 with Aurier and Trippier. He put a couple of excellent deliveries in from open play, and Lloris made a flying save to deny him a great goal. His set pieces were poor though, but overall he played as well as a central player can hope to against a 3 man defence with a dedicated destroyer sat in front of them.

I feel as though when the result is bad, people tend to only remember the negatives. Just scoring a goal against Spurs takes some doing when they defend as well as they did yesterday. If we had defended half as well we'd have come away with something.

It is sad that Migs and Lovren undermined the whole team performance though. I'm not too disheartened though. If we'd been second best all over the pitch I'd be looking at Klopp. But it was just 2 individuals who let us down. The worry is though, will Klopp have it in him to drop them? I can't see it myself. Really wish Ward would get a run of games though. He'd have stopped at least 3 of them goals yesterday.

{Ed001's Note - I am sorry but you must have watched a different game from me with regards to Coutinho. He was fine when he was in the attacking third but he was trying to do the same in the defensive third and gave the ball away. Repeatedly. He was weak and just threw himself to ground looking for free kicks that were never free kicks. Most of his balls were either over hit or wayward, he was poor. I think the problem is that you are looking too hard for positives. He looked like a player that was playing for himself not the team.}

23 Oct 2017 09:46:18
MK i thought you understood football, we were horrible, if you think we we anything but horrendous you need to learn more about football, Spurs let us play when leading 4-1, nothing more nothing less. When there was a 2 goal lead we barley had a kick .

{Ed025's Note - they did take their foot off the gas mate..

23 Oct 2017 09:47:45
You are spot on hjikle, really worrying.

23 Oct 2017 10:07:21
One of the worse times I’ve seen Coutinho play. Every time he had the ball in our third he held on too long and got out muscled by Harry Winks or Trippier. He had one descent shot but apart from that was poor.

{Ed025's Note - i agree welsh..

23 Oct 2017 10:11:09
I just don't want to be all doom and gloom Ed. At the end of the day we've only lost twice still, to Man City and Spurs. I think it's fair to say that they'll be the top 2 this season.

Aside from that, 3rd is there for the taking and if we take advantage of our favourable run in up to Christmas we should be back in the mix. Chelsea look soft centred, Arsenal are a different team from week to week, and United aren't anywhere near as good as everyone is making out already having dropped points against Stoke (probably one of the 3 worst teams in the league) and lost to Huddersfield. We have had by far the hardest start to the season and yet we're still in touch with 4th place, which is our realistic expectation for the season.

The Spurs game is gone and as much as it hurt, slagging off everyone in the team won't achieve anything. You've said it yourself, the attack did it's job. We scored. Did we really expect to put 4 past Tottenham? I said before the game i expected a 1-1 draw. For me, 9 out of 11 players deserved a draw. 2 didn't. The issue yesterday was Lovren and Mignolet did everything they could to cost us the game so that is the issue to focus on, rather than look for negatives in everything else because we're hurt by a bad, bad result. I feel like blaming the rest of the team is just ignoring the real issue; Klopp has totally screwed up with this goal keeping situation.

Just my opinion though. If Coutinho's shot had gone in the top corner people would be saying he played well and was one of the only players trying to make things happen. He was as effective as Salah, but Salah's chance went in so he is getting plaudits. Football is fickle like that. Opinions rest on a knife edge and a single moment can change everyone's outlook. We all know that Coutinho is a big moment player. Almost a luxury that you accommodate because every so often, those shots do fly in and we win because of them sometimes.

Perhaps i am trying to hard to be positive! But it makes me feel better than looking for all the negatives and ignoring the positives as though they weren't there 😊 on a side note, whilst it is easy to fix the keeper issue by just giving Ward a chance, i have no idea how to resolve the centre back issue in the short term.

{Ed025's Note - as i said i applaud your positivity MK, for me though couts was poor but salah was probably my MOTM but what do i know..

23 Oct 2017 10:51:28
I agree with the Eds about Coutinho. He can have that many touches and that much time when he's at Barcelona but we are Liverpool and it's the Premier League. Keep the ball moving. An old Liverpool adage was when the ball stops you invite a challenge.
And stop shooting from anywhere, Pip!

23 Oct 2017 11:13:45
Mk it’s not all doom and gloom we had a very poor day no hiding from that but I still say someone is going to get a hiding from us when these efforts on goal start flying in so I think the roller coaster ride is here for the season there will be some massive highs and some very lows strap yourself in and smile folks
Up the pool.

23 Oct 2017 11:09:06
You were spot on Ed 001 about Couts yesterday. He was trying but was awful too. He just looked tired and was easily overwhelmed each time he had the ball. If we had defenders who could defend (Moreno caused half our problems yesterday) and a really good goalie (like the Lama) we might be winning these games.

23 Oct 2017 02:57:31
Hi Eds and Reds,
Given our continual defensive woes and until maybe now, our managers blind indifference to these problems and despite it being obvious that things needed changing 2 years ago,
I got thinking that Klopp is maybe is maybe in the top 10 rated managers in Europe.

23 Oct 2017 06:55:11
But the Eds have pointed out repeatedly he is aware of the problems and wants changes, wanting them and being able to get them aren't the sane thing.

23 Oct 2017 08:42:49
Lfcder, hpow do you know he is blind to such deficiencies? Ed01 has told us repeatedly about what he is trying to do and how the scouting team is completely hopeless and can't get in the right defenders even tho they have had ample time to find a suitable bunch. Pls, read the info the Ed's give us and stop bashing Klopp and calling him blind to our issues whereas none of that is true.

22 Oct 2017 23:26:59
Question for Ed1, if you're around?

Having just lost to Spurs, what's your take on the season so far, Klopp and his selections, and where does/ should/ will the club go from here?

Lots saying, as with City, that the result didn't reflect the game. So, is it time to worry or did we just come off badly against "the two best teams in the league"?

Thank you in advance, always enjoy your thoughts and insights in all things LFC.



Rob.

{Ed001's Note - yesterday we were battered, imo, by the best team in the league. They are far better balanced than City. It truly reflected the game and the situation the two clubs are in right now.

As for worrying, not yet, too early in the season to assess things properly. Look at Citeh, this time last year everyone had handed them the title and they are doing it again this season, yet they won nothing. They will fade, Spurs might well end up doing a Spurs again and bottling it when it matters, but City will fade.

The only selection that matters Klopp is making a mess of. If he keeps giving Mignolet more chances, we will suffer. The keeper is the basis of everything. I don't understand it as he does not want Migs either, so why keep picking him? Madness.}

23 Oct 2017 06:12:31
The same can be said for Can Ed.
Been said on here by various people that Klopp doesn’t rate him and it’s seems clear cut he’s off in Jan or the Summer but he is picked into the first team week after week.
If he’s off and not rated, why give him the playing time? Field someone else who does want to play for the club.

{Ed001's Note - I don't understand that decision usually, but yesterday without Wijnaldum, Lallana and Mane, options were limited.}

23 Oct 2017 06:41:25
Agree Ed seems mad to me especially as Karius was dropped for less last season . Migs has no presence at all clearly the defence have zero confidence in him, the two CB’s clearly aren’t good enough but an authoritative keeper would make a difference.

23 Oct 2017 07:25:15
Options available ed. that Coutinho, Milner Henderson in the middle. Grujic was on the bench, he must be showing signs of being a starter now (or is it because of injuries)
With Coutinho pulled into the middle we could of put the OX out wide.
Gini to come back in.

All seems very strange to me at the minute.

{Ed001's Note - Grujic was there because of injuries. I fail to see what Coutinho is doing to be worthy of a place right now. He has yet to perform well this season and is a major hindrance to our attacking play. Milner is not a central midfielder in any shape or form. However it really does not matter until the backline is sorted out.}

23 Oct 2017 08:54:37
Everything starts from the GK, as Ed has said repeatedly here. Karius was dropped for WAY less last season YET Migs keeps playing. I wonder what Karius and Ward must be thinking to themselves. "I am on the bench or in the stands for this guy? Really? " Yeah, Really. Cos Klopp has made a mess of this GK issue, he will bear the brunt of it if he keeps playing Migs. Cou did not play well last night and frankly, he seemed to lose the ball to much and get bullied by Winks of all people. Spurs are the most balanced team in the PL and City are not a patch on them in that respect. This is what Klopp is trying to do here as Spurs is IMO, who we should emulate cos the checkbook managers (utd and City) are very unbalanced and have issues. Spurs seemingly, have NO weaknesses.

23 Oct 2017 08:57:00
I agree we were doing ok without coutihno before man city game we bring him back an we have been poorly.