Liverpool Banter Archive October 23 2015

23 Oct 2015 22:49:36
I know I will get million disagreements and I know my suggestion is going against one of the most sacred principles of people here (thou shall not play a footballer not in 'his position') but at least until Henderson is back I would consider Sakho as a DM with Lucas maybe playing in Milner's position (and Milner is actually in his historic 'position' on the bench) .

I am huge admirer of Sakho and I suggest this not because I don't think he is a good defender, I think he is probably our best one (although not weakness free), but I just think his calmness and his passing skills can be very valuable in midfield, both in organising our forward game which is awful at the minute and help make our defence less exposed.

There is something in his game which is almost Gerrad like, at least in term of passing and it is wasted at the back.

23 Oct 2015 23:16:36
And who do you plan to put in CB lovren? And Lucas is the best in his position at club with his passing very underrated in opinion. But I do agree Milner needs to be dropped but maybe for Ibe.

23 Oct 2015 23:17:16
I see where you are coming from but sakho is drastically needed at the back.

Moving him means putting lovren or Toure alongside Skyrtel and nearly 2 seasons of that have shown it doesn't work. New manger or not.

23 Oct 2015 23:40:30
What a daft idea, also playing Lucas right wing, haven't you just got the sack?

23 Oct 2015 23:46:50
Why not put him up front instead?

Don't we leak enough goals without putting our in form best defender in midfield?

23 Oct 2015 23:44:50
Couldn't disagree more, he's a defender.

24 Oct 2015 00:57:58
Is that you Brendan? let's have firmino and coutinho as full backs too.

24 Oct 2015 02:49:30
Probably the worst suggestion I've heard. Surpasses been Brendan's positional nous. You can't move players into that position because they can tackle well. It can take years for people to learn the positional sense to succeed there.

24 Oct 2015 07:36:00
Sakho is very effective on the ball at back the because he has time and space to play effective forward passes, something he is very good out

Put him in a congested midfield and I fear "calmness" would be the synonym to the word that would actually describe him.

Fantastic as a specialist centre back, but I personally don't think midfield should even be an option.

{Ed001's Note - why on earth would anyone be foolish enough to want to move our only decent centre back anyway? It is ludicrous.}

24 Oct 2015 08:25:40
Why not just put Mignolet in midfield.

24 Oct 2015 09:40:43
Why until hendo is back too, hendo is not a dm?

23 Oct 2015 18:26:59
Not Liverpool related but Just seen the mourinho video of him assaulting a teenage lad. waw, the man has lost the plot at the minute. question for edd2. what punishment do u expect him to receive for this and do u see any Fa punishment. cheers.

{Ed002's Note - You should try the Chelsea page.}

23 Oct 2015 19:18:12
Assault?

I'm not a Mourinho fan, just the opposite actually, but I saw some little chav pointing his phone's camera at Mourinho and then the camera shaking without you being able to see what caused it to shake.

It's hardly concrete evidence of an assault is it?

23 Oct 2015 19:26:55
What has it got to do with the FA?
Did it happen at a football ground?

It's nothing to do with the FA they should keep out of it.

23 Oct 2015 23:49:00
There's a witch hunt against the man. An example of the sickening media we have.

That Doctor rubbish was blown out of proportion too. Now, MOURINHO, next, some other victim.

24 Oct 2015 00:19:52
He is employed by the club which is governed by the fa. I haven't seen it so will pass no judgement.

24 Oct 2015 03:57:13
One minute you are a journos wet dream the next your the centre of a witch hunt. Doesn't matter to the media if he's guilty or not as long as it sells papers.

24 Oct 2015 08:28:42
If he's committed an offense then it's a police matter.
If he hasn't then the FA would be well advised to keep out of it. I have seen it and there is no evidence of anything other than the camera shaking seconds after Mourinho is spotted in the background.

24 Oct 2015 08:32:29
Scootinio, I couldn't say it better. Media = Vultures.
The press seem to like Jurgen, and as a result I am seeing something I haven't for a long time. Positive comments and articles about Liverpool FC. This is good but, like Scootinio says if a story sells sells they will hang you out, just like Mourinhio right now.

23 Oct 2015 18:42:30
Good evening, I just wanted everyone's opinion on Daniel Sturridge. As much as I except he is a very good footballer the problem is he never plays football as he is almost constantly injured.

I now believe we should look to offload him and replace him with someone who is less injury prone. It's no use having a fantastic footballer sat in the stand watching us play for three quarters of the season!

23 Oct 2015 19:19:38
And how much do you think we can sell him for?

23 Oct 2015 19:21:53
Off load him where.

Do you think there are clubs queuing up to sign a crock?

Sturridge is the best striker we have. Last night showed how important these players are. Off loading him would be a mistake, his fitness needs managing better.

23 Oct 2015 19:22:41
And who the hell would buy him. You want him shot because he is injury prone, but expect some other club to take him. Crazy or what.

23 Oct 2015 19:34:15
What I do not agree on is his massive wages seen as he's barely played a game since his pay rise!

23 Oct 2015 19:44:46
Agree wth previous replies and also Sturridge was supposed to be a bonus this season the main striker was supposed to be Benteke with Ings as a second when the assumption is that Sturtidge will be unfit more often than not. Because he is so talented and suits our game so well probly more than benteke it feels we miss him badly but his injuries were predicted. At least no onw will try to steal him from us.

23 Oct 2015 19:47:01
and he got that pay rise while out injured, there is no chance anyone will buy him as he is on huge wages, were kinda stuck with him, just got to get him fit, and scoring, we need him right now .

23 Oct 2015 20:13:26
Perhaps Man City can buy him back as a squad option, and they certainly can afford his wages and any transfer fee. They probably don't need to rely on him as they will have Aguero too.

But IMO, LFC should have bought pertinently keeping in mind the injury issues Sturridge has, and they are not going to clear up. We have Benteke and Origi in the team and Ings on the sidelines, and let's see what these boys can do this season.

23 Oct 2015 20:25:54
Yeah I do believe there are teams out there who would buy Sturridge.

We didn't pay a crazy amount for him so sell him at a small loss and that will be fine.

I don't understand all the people who say he is our best striker and we need to manage his fitness better.

You cannot manage fitness of people when they are younger. He should be fully capable of playing two games a week every week at his age.

Like I said before it's no good having quality players if they hardly ever play.

Move him on, take a loss and get a replacement who spends more time in their own room than the physios!

Cheers

S.

23 Oct 2015 23:48:52
At some point and I hate to say this, a decision will have to be made about whether Studge is worth keeping at the club. Why? because his injuries or inability to play five games in a row is costing us and the club a lot on the pitch and in wages.

I would never have given him a raise until he proved his fitness and right now, he's of no use to us injured all the time regardless of how talented he may be, football is a business and in the end, if he can't play and earn the wages, he's of no use to us. And if he's of no use to us, why is he here? Just a thought.

24 Oct 2015 11:47:24
Sturridge's scoring record in the league for us since he joined has been excellent. When he plays he is quality. We shouldn't turn against him because of his injuries.

23 Oct 2015 15:19:47
I'd like to initiate a debate which comes about by virtue of the endless comments I read like: "he's never had prem experience" "not sure he's ready for the prem" "it's going to take time to adjust to the prem" etc etc.

I always read those and grin and think "what a load of. "

Why do I think that? Well a fair number of reasons, but a couple are:

- "the prem" is not a style so they are not required to adapt to the premiership style. Styles are developed by the coaching and the management staff who, in turn, develop players to play hopefully in a style or styles common to, and adaptable within, a team. Whenever a player moves from one team to another, within league or outside, there is some adaptation possibly required simply by virtue of it being a new team of course not as much a new league.

- premiership teams rarely prosper nowadays in Europe and many of those that have in the past developed their own styles that others are forced to adapt to play against when they take it to Europe. But as most of the prem teams play in Europe today the other key nations play the game their way and it is our teams that often can't live with them and it is us that are forced to adapt for the games or sink.

Ok England has done well in qualifying against some small nations but, let's be honest, we all expect us to fluff our lines when we come up against the strong EU nations who will play their style developed for their team and their players.

So I put it that actually, as long as there is a decent technician coach and tactician at the helm, a decent player on the continent or further afield should easily be a decent player on these shores.

Some, me included purely based on the poor state of many an English pro clubs strategy and selection for development versus better approaches within the game at out European neighbouring countries (an example being size bands in youth selection and development rather than pure age bands), would selfishly prefer our clubs buys don't have an English pro club development background.

23 Oct 2015 18:05:24
Nonsense that.

You attribute all your reasons on football, yet forget to mention the settling in part.

It would be wise to consider that footballers are in fact human, and that players do in fact struggle to adapt.

You telling me you've never struggled to adapt in a new job? In different surroundings with new colleagues? Not to mention the moving the family part, new schools, stress off the Mrs and potential language barrier and cultural differences.

Dead easy, isn't it?

Oh yeah, wages have no effect either.

There are exceptions, of course, but then again, everyone is different, but on a blanket assumption your opinion is wrong.

23 Oct 2015 18:50:02
How many we'll respected players have you seen come to the prem and struggle. the answer is a lot.

Veron for instance under fergie struggled along with di Maria under van gaal.

23 Oct 2015 19:24:40
Shevchenko is another.

24 Oct 2015 00:22:54
The prem isn't a style of football no, but teams like Stoke of old are far more physical than the equivalent positioned Spanish or Italian teams, that's part of the factor.

24 Oct 2015 04:55:42
How many of us would of been pulling our todgers at the thought of Falcoa joining us befor he went to United. I remember people fuming we didn't get Soldado when he joined Tottenham. In the prem you have to fight for every yard of space cause there's always someone ready to get in your face. Other countries like Spain play a more technical game where the player on the ball is afforded space until the final third when defenders close the angles and force the opposition into a mistake before making a measured attack them selves. The reason English sides struggle in Europe is cause we seem to change our style to play foreign teams at there own game. This has always confused me as I believe if we played with the intensity and aggression we do in the premier league teams wouldn't be able to cope as they wouldn't get the time on the ball they usually do. I know you couldn't go chasing the ball against some one like Barcelona cause there players would just play one touch football to get out of a tight spot then destroy you when they found space but 90% of teams would struggle in my opinion.

23 Oct 2015 12:27:21
I thought the atmosphere last night was fine. But the fans have watched some drose for years and it takes it toll. A performance gets the fans hyped. Remember the Liverpool arsenal champions league match when it was goal after goal the crowd was immense. We can't score goals so how can the crowd be happy and celebrate?

23 Oct 2015 11:52:59
What did we learn from last night?

Nothing that we didn't already know.

A few players last night did themselves no favours at all.

23 Oct 2015 18:10:53
Milner, Allen, Skrtel, were poor. Lallana and Couts were average (and i`m being nice here) . Need to do better.

23 Oct 2015 19:41:16
Think Jurgen learned lots.

23 Oct 2015 09:04:23
Lets get this straight, there should be no expectations for this season other than for klopp to implement his ideas on the squad and club.

With regards to the game i see nothing wrong with analysing players performances. Talk of selling lallana for me is misplaced, bar sakho he was the best lfc player on the pitch last night. We just cannot legislate for average players such as skrtel and clyne who while they did not do too much wrong, they also didn't do too much right. Couts had a bad night and really needs to put in the effort with shooting practice, don't think he hit the barn door all night.

Milner needs to calm down, he was brought in to show experience and composure and its not coming through for me.

In terms of Origi, a blind man can see he is not a natural forward and i cannot see him making it in the prem tbh. I guess the club is hamstrung by who is registered for europa league otherwise i would suggest sinclair might have gotten a run out over him.

Benteke will improve as he loses his ring rust and firmino will be a useful player. Its early doors and while i was annoyed by the result last night, in the cold light of day I am content that we will make progress.

Tbh the team is missing a worldie, whether its a striker who has that added quality or a midfielder who can dictate play and find a killer pass etc. Hopefully if we can get a payday loan next summer we can add someone with real quality to the team.

Oh and skrtel needs to be dropped, we need to play martin kelly, oh no we chooped him for peanuts, gomez, oh damn he is injured. Ok we need to play (insert any lfc youth player here) instead of skrtel. I scream at the tv ever time i see him basically act as a defensive screen much like american football leading the opposition striker into a scoring position as he continuosly backs off them into the box.

23 Oct 2015 09:44:47
I disagree. This season should not be allowed to just fade away. We are not that far off a top 4 spot, still in all the Cups, and this was under Rodgers. I expect Klopp should do better than him. Klopp should try to keep Liverpool competing until after Christmas then i expect us to push on. We can't be doing with any transition and i don't think Klopp will use it as an excuse at all. I would hope to see a big improvement the other side of Christmas. that's his job.

23 Oct 2015 09:46:23
Jerome sinclair is eligible to play as part of the B list.

23 Oct 2015 18:24:27
NO WAY! We play every game for the win. it is too early in the season to just give up just because it looks hard right now. That`s just nonsense. You play your heart out till the final whistle and see what happens. The PL is of a severely poor standard or balanced right now that three wins in a row gets you up the table in a flash. PLAY TO WIN!

23 Oct 2015 19:26:23
Agreed. I'm not sure we have a truly world class player left on this side. 13/14, our best time in recent years, we could claim at least three players that were world class: Suarez, Sturridge, Gerrard. Our Istanbul squad, even more.

Coutinho and Firmino *can* be world class at their best, but Coutinho is being smothered having to play with mediocre MF/forwards like Origi and Milner right now, so he's trying to do it himself. But he's still developing and too inconsistent.

Firmino has the same "worldie" potential, but he's young and needs to be coached. He can achieve that greatness with Klopp, but he hasn't been given much of a chance so far, before Klopp arrived. Rodgers ignored him, substituted him, and then played him out of position. Rodgers was such a knob.

Sturridge is world class, but he plays 2 games and then goes on another injury vacation. I think we need to give up totally on him at this point. Sick of it.

23 Oct 2015 08:51:14
I Honestly believe if you take Origi out (No knock on him he just needs a lot of work) and put in Benteke or Sturridge or Ings) there would of been better movement. you could tell as soon as Benteke came on we had a better vocal point up top and seemed more likely to score from a striker rather than a long range shot (which frustrated the hell out of me last night the amount of times they tried to go for a screamer which wasn`t going to happen! ) and anyone else think we would of been better served with countinho on the bench that came with just Lallana playing behind the striker with IBE on the wing? he just seemed lost last night.

23 Oct 2015 18:27:02
Couts was average and Lallana just ran and ran with no end product, crossing blind balls and taking five touches before passing it to a teamate who as a result was no longer open. I hope they step up because they are both becoming frustrating to watch.

23 Oct 2015 08:22:55
Coutinho struggles when we don't have strikers. It happened last season too when Studge was injured and BR played sterling in that false 9 nonsense! I bet he improves again when Studge and Benteke return.

23 Oct 2015 07:54:30
I just don't understand why the players aren't walking out the tunnel at the same time as YNWA is played and sang at its loudest. It might just get the players going and In turn if the players are performing the crowd might just turn up too.
Cheers
Jamesee.

23 Oct 2015 10:27:28
It use to happen but they would kiss it sometimes and it would of been done by the time they got out so I go changed until they were on the pitch so the opposition team could hopefully get intimidated better.

23 Oct 2015 06:18:35
Some observations from the game. First of, there is clearly a shift in formation, going from the 4-3-3 Rodgers played to a 4-3-2-1 under Klopp. Klopp employed a 4-2-3-1 with two central midfielders at BvB, but here, at this very very early stage, he has started off with a more similar system to Rodgers. I am not entirely surprised by this, and Klopp himself did say that drastic changes won't be made while he gets to know the players, and what they can do, and what they cannot do.

The obvious change in central midfield is that Lucas (and Allen) played the central role, while Milner on the right side of central midfield and Emre Can on the left side of central midfield. When defending, the difference is that it will be Can and Milner who have the responsibility to help the full-backs out at first. This leaves the two support strikers (Coutinho and Lallana) more freedom to attack when we win the ball. This puts a lots of onus on the 3 central midfielders to run, run and run some more, when defending and attacking, and I thought Emre Can played the role well for the first half. Allen was caught out repeatedly, while Milner struggled. When we press, up from the front with the the two support strikers and Origi, that is when the midfield (and defenders) push up together and try and win the ball back. This pressing part, we seem to be able to employ easily enough, but of course there needs to be better co-ordination, and that will come as Klopp works on this team.

When we win the ball back, the onus is put on the 2 support strikers to play football. That is where we are struggling, and particularly the link up between the two support strikers, the 3 central midfielders and the striker. Coutinho will need movement form others to be effective, and I think he has put too much pressure on him to do it all on his own. Lallana had a good game mostly, but like Coutinho, when it came to delivering the decisive pass, he was missing.

Over the coming weeks and months, we will see Klopp try out players in this system and work out who suits the way he wants to play, and it is now firmly up to the players to prove that they are good enough to be here playing for Liverpool, and for Klopp. If they cannot adapt, Klopp will sell them in the summer, and bring in players in key areas he know can work with his system.

23 Oct 2015 07:26:20
Totally agree on this real AG, we already have the players in the club to improve on implementing Klopps style in my opinion, we can certainly afford to sell one of lallana, coutinho and firminho to fund an addition or two along with other leavers who don't make the mark. i'm just glad to see most fans can see the subtle changes and direction klopp is going for rather than just coming out with this crap of "its just the same as under rodgers" after 2 games.

23 Oct 2015 09:23:10
I agree with what you are saying real AG, i went the game last night and Milner was poor again last night for me, responsibility of taking the corners and not once did he beat the first man. So stepped up Lallana and only once he put in a decent ball and then moreno took over and delivered two decent balls. It will take time for the team to get the understanding of what Klopp wants we all understand that and we are getting our strongest 11 back so hopefully things will improve.

23 Oct 2015 06:39:19
Pretty much spot on. The difference is the midfield.
When you play three central midfielders, one should play very high up and should be a goal scorer.
Klopp will need to drop Milner and play a wide player to get us natural width and stretch the defenders wide.

Big question, Who get dropped when Henderson returns?

23 Oct 2015 05:06:23
It's about rite for people on here to be questioning klopp already.

The guy has took on a team which has played poorly for the past 20 - 30 games that also contains average players.

Hes had a week to train them so far and as good as he maybe he isn't going to turn skrtel into a world-class centre back.

We are currently playing with our 4th choice centre forward who happens to be 20 year old with no premier league experience.

We also have a squad with no natural wide players and also a squad full of players who want to play behind the striker.

Look it's a case of getting players back to fitness and getting on the best we can until January where we can try to get maybe markovic back and unloading 1 or 2 players and maybe bringing in 1 or 2.

23 Oct 2015 06:42:45
It's ludicrous some of the media statements being made this week.

We'll have nutter season for ages yet, if I see improvement by the end of the season I'll be happy. BR has left a mess that doesn't get put right in a hurry.

23 Oct 2015 07:18:11
No one is questionning Klopp, why raise arguments just so you are able to refute them. Everyone understand he needs time. Some of us just question the quality of the squad he has. I said from the minute he came, his success will be achieved (and tested) by his activity in the transfer windows. This squad is just not good enough. It is not just about tatical decisions and formations. They can't pass, they can't cross accurately, they lose the ball very easily, they cannot keep the ball under pressure, they are unbelivebly poor in the last third. We are a very very soft side.

People say the problem with the EL that it is too close to the weekend games. For me the problem is that it is too close to the CL games so you can see the difference in the quality of the game from one day to the next. It is not just me saying. BBC sport summed the game in Klopp understands now he has an average squad. If people here think he will just change formation and play people in position we will look amazing they are kidding themselves. Even Klopp can't turn straw into gold.

22 Oct 2015 22:49:33
Ed1 what do you think was the main issue with our performance tonight?

{Ed001's Note - too many touches, the ball was moving too slowly, you need to exploit the wide areas and move the ball quickly when up against packed defences. Players should be one and two touch only in those situations. Get it shifting quickly and try and tempt the opposition to move out of their positions.}

23 Oct 2015 07:17:00
That's right. Near the end when they did venture up the field and we won it back, I was hopeful that we would attack at pace whilst they were getting their shape back. We needed a 20 yard pass to a "number 10" in between their defence and retreating midfield, but what did we do? Dribble the ball slowly with a couple of one twos thrown in which allowed them to park the bus again. When we try for half the game to break down a wall, sometimes it's worth giving them a sniff to try and open them up a bit.