Liverpool Banter Archive June 23 2016

 

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23 Jun 2016 19:33:02
Ed2 - you've said if we are looking for anyone to blame for the players we are looking at blame klopp because he wants them.

On other posts you've said we are looking at the same players as when Rodgers was in charge.

Which is it if you'd be so kind?

Believable1 Unbelievable2

{Ed002's Note - Klopp is lookming at a number of players like Mane who were looked at previously when Klopp was in charge.}

23 Jun 2016 23:32:33
I love Klopp and will support him, I think he will bring the glory days back, but i don't support players line mane incoming. still. again, ill support Klopp. if this is what he wants then fine, I trust him.


24 Jun 2016 00:23:30
It seems like we're chasing the same players before Klopp was brought in? Strange.


24 Jun 2016 00:39:48
This is what I think of mane . We all hate sterling but his pace help us a lot . Defenders hate people with pace but unlike sterling who can finish mane can score goals I know we all hate buying saints players but it's not like there not good players it just needs the right man in charge.


23 Jun 2016 22:53:37
Well it doesn't make any difference because if klopp wants them they are klopps signings, doesn't matter who initially targeted them. If klopp likes the look of another player surely he would target him like for example dahoud.


24 Jun 2016 01:35:39
Mané is a good player with a dodgy attitude.
Who knows whether Kloppo can turn it round with him.
At the end of the day, not being in the champions league effects the type of player we can attract.


24 Jun 2016 03:34:56
Mane is the right style of player we need, it's up to Klopp and the committee to judge if he can perform in the side and has the right attitude. Clearly from here on in signings are Klopps regardless if scouted before.


23 Jun 2016 21:31:28
Ed's I'd just like to ask a question regarding our transfer policies if possible. Wanyama to Spurs seem to have happened within days. It could just be because we don't look at Spurs rumour sites, but to me, it feels like we take an age to get anything done. Am I just a typical impatient fan? Thanks.

Believable1 Unbelievable8

{Ed091's Note - Is the transfer window open? relax. Have a kit kat.

23 Jun 2016 21:52:59
What smacks is that he signed for £12.5m 3 yrs ago. Improves, comes into his peak years, has proven prem experience and goes for £11m. If it were us buying him, £20-£25m easy and we'd pay it.


23 Jun 2016 22:33:20
I could be wrong about this but I believe Wanyama was coming to the end of his contract so they had to sell him or lose him for nothing next season.


23 Jun 2016 22:55:56
Yeah I was looking at this yesterday and it is no suprise. Everyone else seems to manage to do better business that us for better players. £11m from them probably would have been £20m from us. Liverpool fc is poorly run from back to front.


23 Jun 2016 22:30:21
It's definitely is taking an age. Took us over a month to under bid Ben chidwell and get denied.


24 Jun 2016 01:37:33
I really don't rate Wanyama and I'm not surprised Saints didn't play hardball over his sale.


24 Jun 2016 03:36:24
We've signed Karius, Matip and Grujic for very little in he grand scheme of things, think that's very good business so far.


24 Jun 2016 06:49:29
If by everyone else you means Spurs didn't they pretty much blow around 100 million 2-3 years ago? Short memories.


23 Jun 2016 18:30:21
Eds is there renewed interest in subotic? Just been rwading through websites and noticed it mentioned. thanks.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed091's Note - rtp

23 Jun 2016 19:30:33
Is RTP any good?


{Ed091's Note - better than rtfp

23 Jun 2016 20:04:44
abuse deleted playing alongside try the search function, l would be a formidable centre back pairing IMO Chris!


23 Jun 2016 19:51:42
Haha class.


23 Jun 2016 21:54:16
People, be a little more clear - is it Roy Tan Persie we are interested in, or Raul Toledo Fakundo Pereira? Totally different playing styles, you know!


23 Jun 2016 23:18:51
Robin tan persie? Past it.


23 Jun 2016 17:51:55
Hey eds, new to the site and was just wondering if there is anything in the Mane and Moura whispers?

Believable0 Unbelievable2

{Ed002's Note - Try the search engine.}

23 Jun 2016 18:10:59
Ed002 literally explained both yesterday mate.

Moura is possibly staying at PSG now and we have no interest.

Mane on the other hand, is a Klopp target. Jurgen is the one driving it as he wants him. Ed002 and Ed001 have both confirmed it.


23 Jun 2016 19:31:19
Sorry didn't have time i am in work skiving but thanks ill be sure to read in future.


23 Jun 2016 21:33:24
No worries mate. We have all asked a repeat question at some point! Just appreciate how annoying it must be for the Eds ;)

Hope I answered your question anyway buddy.


23 Jun 2016 17:46:31
Any truth in the rumours about reported interest in Theo Walcott and Oxlade Chamberlain Ed? Cheers.

Believable0 Unbelievable5

{Ed002's Note - Try the search engine.}

23 Jun 2016 19:12:12
Paper talk. Lazy paper talk at that. Walcott is a non starter and Oxlades agent is that cretin who manages Sterling so that's a non starter and frankly he's a bit rubbish too. As much as I'm not keen on Mane, he's an infinitely better option than either of them two.


23 Jun 2016 23:59:28
both are turd. don't want either.


23 Jun 2016 16:53:55
Hi Eds, I've noticed you've said we hold an interest in Mane and Goetze.

Do you reckon we want both, or is it a case of one or the other?

Cheers.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I would avoid trying to complicate matters YR. My expectation is only one will be likely, but if some, say Firmino, were to leave then that might change.}

23 Jun 2016 17:16:52
Gotze won't be coming here. If we'd beaten Sevilla and got Champions League footy, maybe we'd have had a better chance of getting him, plus, Arsenal are now sniffing around him. The reported £30m asking price for Sadio Mane is very steep, but, given our transfer history under Fenway, we will probably pay it.


23 Jun 2016 17:28:32
Ed it would appear that we are pushing for Mane the most, Or is that just because Goetze is at the Euros?


{Ed002's Note - "the most" eh?}

23 Jun 2016 17:50:40
Lol yes mate "the most". Or at least that's what it appears to be to us imortals who rely on scraps and need your expertise.


23 Jun 2016 18:27:23
I get nervous when ED002 uses examples as in "but if some, say Firmino, were to leave then that might change". Sometimes it's a hint, and I hope to God it isn't in Firmino's case.


23 Jun 2016 23:00:17
Yes because ed2 might really be meaning coutinho. It's gone quiet for now but it is still likely he wants to leave and will push for a move. Only then would we see another brought in. I think he avoided saying coutinho because of stupid posters.


23 Jun 2016 16:39:44
Zielinski deal sorted according to reports?

Believable3 Unbelievable2

23 Jun 2016 17:35:24
Am I the only one who has no interest in signing him? Why do we need another midfielder? We have good first team midfielders and youth potential. I just don't get it.


23 Jun 2016 16:37:42
Yeah, time to wade in with some more awesome insight.

Ed2's honesty and bluntness have got people hot under the collar again. Was Klopp successful last season or not? Usually in sport success is judged against individual targets. Coming second when you're a no hoper is awesome, coming second when you were the favorite sucks.

What was our expectation when Klopp came in? The more excitable of us thought we'd go and challenge for the title, the more sensible hoped for top 4 and the realists expected a simple improvement in our league form. We came 8th with our lowest points total since the 11/ 12 season. By results alone we had a bad league campaign, there was lots of mitigation (injuries, number of games, focus on Europe etc) but any way you cut it it was disappointing.

How about our cup performance? Rodgers got to two semi-finals last year and got zero respect, is getting one step further a significant improvement? Not really. Cup competitions are all or nothing, we certainly didn't do badly, but we can't really claim to have had any success.

So, in summary, was Klopp's first campaign a success? No it wasn't. Does that matter? Not a jot, at least not yet it doesn't. Klopp wasn't brought in to win the league last season, he was brought in to win the league within a time frame, probably three years or so. Are the indicators that next season will be better than this one? If you follow my posts (and I know you do) then you know I think we'll be in the mix for top four next season. If in 12 months we've made no progress then it's time to worry. In the mean time, chill out.

Believable10 Unbelievable8

23 Jun 2016 21:52:05
Muscatred, how did you know I just sit here waiting for your posts?
I was once as humble as you, so my church gave me a badge that said "Most humble guy around", but they took it off me as I insisted on wearing it.


23 Jun 2016 23:11:14
Here here muscatred. Agree with you. It's really time to just wait and see but top 4 was actually quite possible last season if you think about it and I don't mean via Europa. Utd, city and Chelsea where all very poor, and with about 6 games to go we still had a good chance of top 4 in the league but priortised Europa and ended up losing. I never expected top 4 but I expected improvements in performances and in turn results. Performances improved here and there but results where worse. Next season shall be interesting.


23 Jun 2016 22:37:07
Burley, that made me smile.


23 Jun 2016 16:20:15
I would like to know the opinions of Harry regarding what he thinks will be a good season for us this coming season.
I am expecting a fifth place finish as it stands with the team as it is and the other teams current squads. Obviously a lot can change before new season.

Believable2 Unbelievable4

23 Jun 2016 16:44:04
Very early to predict mate, Like few other supporters I would want Liverpool to win the title next season which would be unrealistic. A CL berth and a cup would be a fantastic season in my eyes. We all knew where we need to strengthen in the summer and the addition of GK is a good business to begin with. I don't see Matip as a starter as I believe it would be Sakho and Lovren to start the campaign ( I rate Sakho very high and his brilliant quality I pick a pass ) .

Grujic is young and unlike others I am not counting on the kid to be the next Alonso.
I will be extremely disappointed with Zielinski for any sum above £10 mill as he is not what we want nor any upgrade on Henderson. A world class CM / DM is necessary after watching teams ripping our midfield last season unlike Klopp.
Mane is a gamble which could pay off but we have seen with Lallana ( who was brilliant for Saints ) things ain't that straight forward.
I am hopeful and optimistic like every other supporter and let's hope we have a great season ahead.

My heart says 3rd place finish but with current team a 5th place at best. ( I pray I am being proved WRONG )
But I have no complaints. 😊.


23 Jun 2016 20:43:14
Harry I would fully agree with that assessment although I try not to go with my heart. I think 5th is very likely, into EL again with maybe a cup. As long as we're pushing close to top 4 I'll be happy. That as you say is based on current squad an improved left back and some added strength in CM will see me happy. Keep Marko to use with Ojo for width options. That may be it for this window. I do think Coutinho will go next summer if not this though.


23 Jun 2016 23:14:36
I share your prediction Harry.


23 Jun 2016 16:00:29
Klopp will be highly scrutinised if he has a uninspiring transfer window this summer AND if Liverpool do not get off to a decent start in the league. That goes without saying. However, there have been many managers who have had 50 (approx) games in management and have failed to create an optimism and euphoria around the club loke Klopp has. Yes, he failed in the sense that liverpool won zero trophies and they finished in a lowly position compared to their average league position since the prem began, but he did so with BR's players. He only changed tactics and fitness levels. The methodology is now in place. The identity has been created. Let him buy his own players and then we can judge him. How many games did Cloughy have in charge of Leeds? let's not be so hasty but at the same time let's not get carried away. We are unlikely to win the league but the season can still prove to be a sucessful one if we manage to qualify for the Champs League. One step at a time. Gradual progression. Doubters to believers

Thanks

Kam.

Believable6 Unbelievable2

23 Jun 2016 23:16:02
Agreed.


23 Jun 2016 23:33:05
Do we think absolute position is the best indicator on proximity to a CL place or the points gap? The points gap wasn't as big as the league position suggests. We dropped a lot of points from winning positions, prioritised the europa cup for the last few games and suffered with a lot of injuries to strikers.
Klopp has strengthened the defence (though we desperately need a lb who can defend) . We won't have the distraction of the europa competition, and we'd be unlucky to have as many extensive injuries to our stikeforce next season.
I think many fans see the influx of top name managers to the pl and galactico signings by other top and emerging clubs.


23 Jun 2016 23:35:26
. and assume both players and managers will immediately adapt to the pl.

Eds please combine w previous post. Finger trouble doh!


23 Jun 2016 15:35:53
Hi Ed001 did you ever get a chance to pass on that message to Macca about popping in even if he has no scandal for us?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - I messaged him yes, no idea whether he got the message or not though.}

23 Jun 2016 16:38:27
I believe Mr macca said he would only post when he has good information as he is so busy nowadays.


23 Jun 2016 16:40:43
Well you did your bit anyway mate.


23 Jun 2016 18:06:28
Oh ok I didn't know that cheers.


23 Jun 2016 15:14:05
Eds - I'm interested in M. Grujic. Is he in Klopps plans to play a significant role in the team or is he going to be a new Thiago Illori/ Samed Yesil. Comes to the club with all the expectation, has the fans excited to see a young prospect then shipped out on loan or left to rot in the reserves. What type of player is Grujic, and is he decent player? Better than what we got?

Believable0 Unbelievable1

{Ed002's Note - He has been given commitments he will play in order to get the transfer through. Much is expected of him in the future - other interested clubs playing at the higher level do not seen him as ready for being thrown in at the deep end just yet.}

23 Jun 2016 15:27:54
I think we've all seen that Klopp does not like the loan system too much and will probably use it far less than we have seen in the recent past. And we wil also see that with a smaller more compact squad, and Klopp's tendency to keep an eye on all the various teams at LFC (not just focusing on the 1st team) Grujic will probably get far more guidance and attention than if he had joined under the previous regime. So the conditions for good development for Grujic are probably the best they can be. Can't expect more or much else.


{Ed002's Note - The loan system is fine if properly managed and used. The way Liverpool has done it in recent years is generally late knee jerk reactions.}

23 Jun 2016 16:00:39
I actually met a serbian guy who is a supporter of grujic team and follows football very much. obviously he is just a fan not an expert but he said exactly that grujic is good and has potential. but nowhere near ready for the premiere league yet. and he was and many others according to him over there very surprised to see liverpool move for him.


I hope he proves them wrong. but it seems realistic not to expect much of him for a couple of seasons.
I hope its not markovic and ilori all over again!


23 Jun 2016 16:38:01
Lots of so-called experts didn't think Dele Alli was ready for the premier league.


{Ed002's Note - The relevance of that being?}

23 Jun 2016 17:17:55
They're not always correct in their assessment, the player can surprise many with their progress.


23 Jun 2016 17:21:33
You don't know what your capable of until your tested. Maybe surprised👌.


23 Jun 2016 18:01:55
The proof is in the pudding.


23 Jun 2016 18:24:15
I think a lot of players step up when they have too.

Nobody thought Flanagan would make it. It was all about Robinson, McLaughlin, and Smith. Yet now Flanagan is the most likely of them all to make it long term because when he got the chance he took it.


23 Jun 2016 20:42:11
The proof is not in the pudding, but the eating.


23 Jun 2016 14:47:58
Question for debate. Had we appointed Ancelloti instead of Klopp, would we have won something last season? I believe we would but I also believe that Klopp is a better fit for us.

Believable1 Unbelievable6

23 Jun 2016 15:34:48
I think it's possible that Acelotti would have brought short term success to the club yes, but I don't think he would have had it any differently to Klopp. I think we'd still be a little bit hit and miss, simply because I don't think the players themselves are consistent enough.

I still think Klopp is the best long term solution we could have hoped for, he's young, got great enthusiasm, he's a great character and his passion is unrivaled. He's also got a winning mentality, which is something I believe we've missed in these last few years.


23 Jun 2016 15:53:57
Ancelotti is a cracking manager but i don't see he would of won anything last season. Klopp did wonders with the players last season and to see a manager with so much passion and desire to win is priceless ancelotti is not like that on the touchline.


23 Jun 2016 16:11:18
Ancelotti use to manger big names and we have none so I think we would not had a Europe leauge run like we did .


23 Jun 2016 16:12:22
According to half the posters on here the squad isn't good enough and only good enough for 8th spot so what does it matter what manager we had ) I actually think the squad is better than its given credit it for but doubt having ancelotti coming in half way in would have made much difference.


23 Jun 2016 18:21:57
You want to debate but decide to sit on the fence, yourself? Ancelloti would have made us win but Klopp is a better fit? How does it matter if Klopp is a better fit or not? Isn’t their job the same? To ensure everything possible is done and all the conditions created, to make the club win? So what’s there to debate? It’s an either or issue. Not a “that guy will make us win but I like the other one better” issue.


23 Jun 2016 21:42:50
I believe in Kloppo.


23 Jun 2016 14:07:53
Afternoon Eds and Reds.
Slightly away from transfers for a question.

Emre Can. Any inside knowledge of how he has settled and feels about playing for the club and Klopp. Just wondered if he has fallen for the club and if we didn't qualify for CL again it wouldn't matter so much? Is having a German coach a strong factor in keeping him? Is it well known his desire is to play for Madrid or Bayern one day etc?

I think he's a great player, I think many clubs and coaches have spotted his potential. It's always Coutinho linked with a move but I'm just as concerned to know Emre is happy etc.

Believable5 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I really have no idea but players who have sustained a period of not playing in the leading competitions will always be interested if an opportunity arises. Right now I would not worry about Can.}

23 Jun 2016 15:44:19
I think you've gotten ahead of yourself on can there mate. He's not quite there yet and no other top clubs would go for him now.


23 Jun 2016 16:44:37
Thanks Ed.
In reply to Kman92 - For banters sake and real interest I think it is relivent question. Mostly all fans have Can in our first 11. Many have Can as high as future captain or a mainstay in our central midfield. He is an important player and has had performances of the highest level in one of the best leagues.

I doubt top clubs aren't keeping an eye on him. And my question about his settlement and near future plans, remember this guy is in the German squad, World Cup winners and surrounded by players involved in CL football. I also imo believe he has demonstrated as good a game as say Rubén Neves, who seems to be on the shopping lists of top sides.

I hold high hopes for Cans progression and would love him to stay for years, but another season without CL football what would happen? That is why I asked. Coutinho goes, who then is our next big young talent that could lift us. I feel it's Can, he could boss a midfield and a game even now while he's raw.

Anyway, was just of interest and for the banter page if anyone knew how much he enjoys playing for us and Klopp, plus his future plans.


23 Jun 2016 13:54:35
Hi Eds,

I know there's question after question about players but it seems almost certain who our primary targets are right now:

Chilwell, Zielinski and Mane

Ed002, would you add anyone to that list at this moment in time where interest is particularly strong in getting a deal done this summer?

Believable2 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - There is interest in Amavi. There is interest in Goetze.}

23 Jun 2016 15:00:50
I'd definitely take Goetze over Amavi haha.


23 Jun 2016 15:48:45
Goetze performances so far in Euros have not been great tbh. i'm sure Klopp can get the best out of him however if we push for him.


23 Jun 2016 16:12:54
He played better last game because he was not playing st . Not all players to play there .


23 Jun 2016 16:21:26
We was played out of position and played better when dropped further back in favour of gomez. Also he hasn't had a great season or a sustained run without injury for ages.


23 Jun 2016 13:36:42
Ed.
Would it ever be possible for a clubs fans or a very rich supporter to generate a donation to the club to buy a buy a player or help buy a player?

Let's take Chillwell for instance and for conversational purposes say we're £3m out of the valuation. Could the club accept a donation from fans or a fan of the remaining £3m and use it to finalise the deal?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - Yes and it has happened before. But it won't be happening at Liverpool.}

23 Jun 2016 15:01:56
When did it happen Ed's? Sounds brilliantly outlandish!


{Ed002's Note - I would need to check the names of players but they have been in various leagues, some purchased by wealthy fans, some by supporters trusts.}

23 Jun 2016 15:05:33
I'm sure we could rustle up £100m easily. 1 million fans put in £100 each. Go and buy Bale! Sounds so easy. Ah dreamworld.


23 Jun 2016 16:27:30
Id gladly donate a grand for messi.


23 Jun 2016 17:49:09
More simple than what I thought. Cheers Ed
Always appreciated.


23 Jun 2016 13:29:42
breaking rumour: A Swedish player was sent off for letting one off in the presence of the referee!

Believable4 Unbelievable1

23 Jun 2016 14:00:34
He didn't put it in his hand and chuck it at the ref either ;o)


23 Jun 2016 21:44:00
Is it a 3 game or 1 game suspension?

Does it class as "violent conduct"?


23 Jun 2016 13:20:27
Hi Ed,

I was just thinking about if you buy a player from abroad and pay monthly instalments or performance based fees, would all fees be paid at the exchange rate at the time of original purchase or when the instalments/ fees are due?

Only asking because the exchange rate can fluctuate a lot and could change the price you pay for a player by millions if its a big money transfer.

Thanks in advance for they reply.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - Players are not purchased using monthly based fees. If a price is agreed - say €10M - that is what has to be paid. The exchange rate doesn't change the price of the player at all. You need to think your question out again.}

23 Jun 2016 13:54:22
Great question Op. I don't know enough about how payments are structured but they aren't always paid in full and up front so I take your point.
If a player was bought at €10m and €5m paid up front and €5m in a years time at a differing exchange rate then wouldn't it impact on the costs unless I am missing something?


{Ed002's Note - You are missing something. The player is sold at a fixed cost at the time - the value does not change. Liverpool would simply move the money from a € account when the second payment is due.}

23 Jun 2016 14:02:25
I know the € price won't change but €10m @ a 1.25 exchange rate would be £8m whereas at 1.45 exchange rate would be £6.8m. So if you agree a €40m fee paid quarterly would each €10m be at the exchange rate when the deal was originally struck or when the €10m is to be paid? Sorry for the question if it's daft I would just like to know how it works. Thanks in advance.


{Ed002's Note - Clubs maintain € accounts and, often, $ accounts.}

23 Jun 2016 14:16:04
Large contracts between business in different currency are near always hedged, meaning purchases a contract for x million on x date and the exchange is guaranteed between certain ranges for the future.

Any gain or loss would be treated as fx gain and not assigned to the asset/ player contract cost.

Basic knowledge of it.


23 Jun 2016 14:44:25
It does change the GBP equivalent price. You have to ask the right question to get the right answer. Our Eds can be very specific. For example if I now ask the Eds who Liverpool are looking at presently, I will get a very lovely red comment back from them ;)


{Ed002's Note - The relevance of the equivalent GBP being what? It also changes the Turkmenistan Manat equivalent price - again it is of no relevance.

Again there is enough here to rationalise why we don't discuss finances at all.}

23 Jun 2016 15:02:26
Thank you for the reply Ed002 the € account explained it perfectly. No idea why there was any need for all the further messages and abuse. Much love! X.


23 Jun 2016 17:20:18
Surely they just bang it on a Halifax clarity card, don't pay any fees for using it abroad 😂.


23 Jun 2016 11:29:08
So transfer window is yet to open and already we are all doom and gloom.

Someone else has already pointed out we have 3 players about to join us on 1st July (next week) ; cost approx £10m + Matip's signing on fee - so less than the Balotelli transfer.


We still have some fans who think our recent average league position and lack of champions league football and silverware allows us to sign whoever we want regardless of what other teams have to offer (inc larger wages) .

Then everyone we are linked with won't fit, is a poor buy etc.

We have some of us asking for bargin's as we over pay whilst others feel the need for 3 or 4 £40m signings.

We've got people claiming one player is better than another etc. however isn't that just like statistics? One player may excel in our team over another due to the other team members - Hows that worked with Portugal at the Euros with Ronaldo?

You have people slating Coutinho; watch a game with Henderson and either Origi or Sturridge in the team as opposed to Allen and Benteke. See how he plays in comparison (by the way I'm not slating Benteke or Allen; I just don't believe they are suited to our style of play) .

So in summary - let's stop moaning for a little bit and let's actually see who leaves and who comes. Then let's see how the first half of the season pans out - it's a difficult set of fixtures (with all top teams mostly away from home) .

I'm looking forward to the season; hopefully a better goal keeper; Flanagan back? Seeing Matip; potentially Chilwell, Can another tournament older, Ojo - will he get plenty of minutes, will Ibe be back / rediscover some form, Ings will have been training all summer.

Also potentially seeing a list of all the outgoings and the players people believe we can bring in for the same amount (excluding agent fee's), Ed002 saying for the 50th time each day that they would rather not discuss money etc.

Believable11 Unbelievable1

23 Jun 2016 13:23:04
Get out.
What are you doing here with sensible posts and an objective point of view? I cannot find a single INSULT towards the players, staff and owners and Liverpool FC - and you call yourself a fan? A TRUE fan has to show his personal affront that the club has not signed Higuain and Aguero yet! For yet another year Liverpool is showing a total lack of ambition by pursuing the players that the manager wants instead of those chosen by the fans!
We could be swimming in titles if the owners showed a little more sense and splashed out on proven stars like Radamel Falcao!


23 Jun 2016 13:57:45
I would say let's just wait and see. Everyone has varying opinions on the players and rightfully so. Recently recruitment has been our big problem even though lots of money has been spent, so people are quite rightly sick of it. The problem right now in my opinion, is that the players that are being brought in would most likely be slated under Rogers, but under klopp they are more accepted because 'if they are good enough for klopp, they are good enough for me' or 'klopp will get the best out of him' etc but not all of us are sold that easily, because history suggests otherwise, and klopp isn't a magician who warrants all this hysteria just yet. Last season wasn't exactly bundles of positivity or achievements, it was a failure, so people will naturally be negative of the back of so many negative seasons. I believe we need players who fit the system not players just for the sake of it or luxury signings and that is what is going on, only with less quality than what I and a lot of people expected. I stress that, I wasn't looking for us to spend large money on every player we got or every player has to be marquee, but there are a lot of quality players out there that aren't marquee or expensive and they have more quality than some of the players we have brought in. That is the frustrating thing, the other top clubs will bring in the marquee and world class players and have new top class managers and will most likely do very well. We don't have the resources to do those things but at least target more quality so we can compete more and have a good chance of getting top 4. As it where, I can't tell you if the squad we are projected to have for the new season will get us top 4, and I was hoping we would have more certainty.

I digress, no one can expect all the players they want to be signed, so we will just have to wait and see. That goes for people saying such and such is better than what we have or will be good for us before they kicked a ball and the same for people saying they won't be good enough for us.


23 Jun 2016 15:11:31
Klopp is getting the same respect Rodgers was afforded to him that's all- a grace period to see what he does with the players he wants. It became clear after three and a half years with Rodgers that he bought the wrong players for the most part and continued buying average ones to an already over inflated squad whilst pretty much ignoring the youth. If klopp goes this same route without winning anything then I'm sure he'll get the same stick. In the meantime I'm keen to see the players we have already bought in a red shirt and see how he can improve our current squad.


23 Jun 2016 11:21:35
Ed 2, you often criticise Liverpool fans for quickly turning on lfc owners, players etc.
Then when supportive, patient and rational Liverpool fans urge short term critical fans to be more patient you criticise them.
Although it goes against modern culture and society a long term approach has to be the way forward in our case.
In our current position we did well to get Klopp in. We now need to give him time to achieve something. If he doesn't over the long term then will be the time to become critical.
I know you're only teasing us Ed 2 but thought I'd make the point none the less. There are some patient long term fans out there.

Believable7 Unbelievable1

{Ed002's Note - I didn't criticise him - I simply found it surprising that he is so impressed by failure. It is nothing to do with modern culture nor culture.}

23 Jun 2016 11:38:39
Depends on how you interpret failure.


{Ed002's Note - Liverpool won nothing. Liverpool failed to qualify for Europe. Feel free to scratch around for more feeble excuses.}

23 Jun 2016 11:49:37
Ed002 is right. This squad won nothing and finished 8th.
The players we have are bang average simple.


23 Jun 2016 12:02:00
Think yous could all do with a little re read and reflection on the comments before biting the shiny bait.


23 Jun 2016 12:06:35
If you don't win a trophy, you've failed.
Man. City, Man. United and Leicester were the only 3 teams in the Premier League to have a good season as far as I'm concerned.


23 Jun 2016 13:20:30
Have to disagree with you there Tristan you can have a good season without winning something (I'm not suggesting we had anywhere near a good one mind) . But Spurs had a good season, West Ham had a good season, Leicester had a GREAT season. It's what your objectives are at the start wether it's a good or bad season at the end. And if you ask any man city or united fans I think they'd disagree with you and say their respective clubs had poor seasons too, neither would be changing managers if had a good season. They both under achieved along with many others, including us. And that's what matters, we under achieved! I think we will be better this season but so will Chelsea and both manc clubs so it's going to be another hard season. I believe we have the right man in the dug out and I'm excited by the signings he's made and will look forward to watching anyone he chooses to sign next. The negativity from some people on this site is borderline embarrassing (not saying you Tristan) everyone knows who they are and it's making this site boring to read. I think these are the ones who play Fifa regularly and check out players on YouTube! On a side note I must admit I enjoy reading MK's, Ron's and Carra's posts!


23 Jun 2016 13:34:09
I think considering the shambles he took on. Injuries to key players, a drugs ban, Mignolet and Moreno forgetting which team they kicked off playing for every game and the negativity surrounding every home game I think his first season was a major success.

He hasn't signed anyone yet really. And has raised the stock of the under achieving players ten fold.

If you want to learn one thing from Klopp learn and take on board the togetherness he is instilling in our club and watch things evolve.


23 Jun 2016 14:01:51
Good post. We were a penalty shootout away from beating one of the most expensively assembled squads in Europe, and a 2nd half collapse away from winning the Europa. Given the right financial backing, and the trust to let Klopp do things his way, we should see success in the coming years. I just hope FSG don't balls things up by repeating their actions of previous years, especially regarding transfers.


23 Jun 2016 14:04:34
Ed2 is generally more rational and correct on certain things related to Liverpool because he doesn't support the club so he will tell us the truth. Some of us have extreme red tinted glasses on and it's very strange after so much failure. On top of that you have this hysteria surrounding klopp because of past achievements and not things he's actually done with us. Last season was a failure nothing more nothing less. We finished 8th and lost two cup finals, a slightly better season got kenny daglish sacked and rightly so, so I don't understand all the klopp brown nosing. I agree I expect us to do some good things under him but let's be level minded for once. If I'm not mistaken, klopps form at one point was as good as hodgsons form with us. Not comparing the two, I think klopp is a superior coach but this is reality.

Ed2 is generally right about us.


23 Jun 2016 16:21:03
Fsg haven't ballsed anything up they have nothing to do with the transfers or picking of players. That is down to the much maligned transfer committee and the manager. Fsg has bankrolled millions of pounds into the club and its employees have spunked a vast majority of it up the wall on quite frankly stupid buys.

I like the business we are doing so far, it fiscally responsible but most importantly they are the right purchases for areas of need. Something we have failed to do in preceeding transfer windows. We just have to wait and see how they turn out, undoubtedly some will fail but if we get one or two gems that will be fantastic.


23 Jun 2016 16:35:13
To be fair ed, there are plenty of valid excuses for Klopp.


{Ed002's Note - Black cat paaing in front of him - check. Walking under a ladder - check. Talking labradoodle urinating on his leg - soon.}

23 Jun 2016 09:49:27
Guys everything that jergen has done so far has impressed me so we have to trust this man to bring the reds back up to the top. Just saying cause he has the potential to do something VERY special for us. YNWA.

Believable10 Unbelievable2

{Ed002's Note - Losing two finals and ending up mid table without European football impresses you?}

23 Jun 2016 10:09:53
Wow how have fans are happy at this. This is Liverpool football club. You should not even be happy if we finish 2rd . Liverpool is all about winning.


23 Jun 2016 10:03:43
Don't be a prude Ed002. He also tied up a loan deal for Caulker! ;)


23 Jun 2016 10:19:55
Have to agree what has he achived nothing. If his name was Rodgers you would want him sacked. He failed in both finals one of which cost us a champions league spot, a final we were winning at half time so he obviously failed to motivate the players. So many fans think he is some kind of God because of his name. And a 8th place finish is pathetic really. I would think if he failed to get top 4 next season he will be managing back in Germany soon.


23 Jun 2016 11:01:10
Red Raj, that right there is everything wrong with modern football.

Klopp has inherited some good individuals, but there are glaring weaknesses in the team.

We had no good keepers, a terrible defensive unit, a weak midfield (due to Hendo being injured) and no pace going forward.

You can't be serious about blaming him for either final? We were unlucky against City, taking them all the way only to be let down in the shootout by Mignolet failing to even make one save.

Then in the Sevilla final Klopp got the tactics spot on only for Moreno to make 2 massive mistakes to gift them the lead. Otherwise that game probably would've gone to extra time as well.

Klopp has not impressed me with everything he has done. The OP exagerrated. He has made mistakes. But he got the best out of the team he had. If Rodgers had stayed in charge we probably wouldn't have gotten to either final, were on course to finish even lower than we did, and this summer we would yet again be signing more attacking miss and have another season with the starting XI of Mignolet, Moreno, Skrtel, Allen and Benteke to look forward to, with Can still in defence!

Ultimately, Klopp didn't achieve anything of note in hs first half a year. But he has already demonstrated motivation, passion, tactical flexibility, confidence in youth, and the ability to learn. Rodgers simply did not have any of that.

We can certainly be optimistic going forward, and if Klopp gets the boot for not finishing 4th in his first full season at the club, we truly are an embarrassment. Let him build something here. Show some support.


23 Jun 2016 11:05:13
Yep half a season, no training sessions with a game every 3 days, no players brought in yet, huge injury crisis to deal with just after arriving. yeah definitely fair to judge him already I vote we get rid move on asap.


{Ed002's Note - A couple of years of transition as well no doubt - the excuses are pretty pitiful.}

23 Jun 2016 11:59:54
Ah Ed002 no need for the wind ups mate you're starting to get to some of them ha!


23 Jun 2016 12:58:19
Klopp should be judged on a full season after a full transfer season to be fair. Plenty of top-class managers don't achieve success without restructuring the team with their right players first. i'm not making excuses for Klopp and 8th place was certainly underwhelming but, for me, he is only due criticism if he fails after a full season with his tactics, system and players.


{Ed002's Note - It was pointless the club making that change if you don't think he is up to the job without changing players and then having another full season (given he has managed Liverpool for more than 50 games). There is nothing wrong with giving him time but he has done nothing in terms of being successful (how long before his win percentage is as good as that of Rodgers at Liverpool?) and nothing I can see that is impressive - which was the original point. Continue to scratch around for excuses.}

23 Jun 2016 13:14:19
Eds and fellow fans, let's try to focus on the good and create a good feeling instead of focusing on the negative. We have a coach who has a track record of turning losers into winners and potential into quality. In due time, the success will come.


23 Jun 2016 13:47:18
Guys. I think what has to be realised here is. We see a very small fraction of what is sent in to this site. Just imagine how many people of different views (some with grudges against certain Ed's too) get sent in in reply to a post or as a new post. We can't all agree on giving Klopp time and what players he is looking at and buying.
Just take a moment and think of some of the non-sense that gets sent in from rival fans pretending to be one of us.
Excuse after excuse after excuse. We finished 8th due to Klopps decisions to not use the 1st team squad and save them for the final. We lost that final.
He got it wrong. There is no hiding that.


23 Jun 2016 13:51:34
Klopp's galvanised the club after the Brenda show. Got us to 2 finals with an average team. Brought excitement to Anfield that hasn't been seen for years. Got the best out of players who were clueless under Brenda. Not in Europe? Master stroke. The guy's a complete failure.


23 Jun 2016 10:16:55
Ed 002, getting to two finals was impressive in itself, as the squad he inherited was unfit, and quite frankly, average.
Klopp will be judged better at the end of this season, and I believe he will deliver top 4 and maybe a cup this season. Are you saying your not impressed by Klopp? Rather have him than Conte anytime. Good day to you sir!


{Ed002's Note - I have explained my position and I find it odd that another Liverpool fans is impressed by failure and needs another year in transition. It is nothing to do with Chelsea and it is embarrassing that you wish to try and turn the attention away from Klopp.}

23 Jun 2016 10:34:32
Stop it Ed002 you tease, of course we should expect him to win two cups and the league in less than a season ;-)


{Ed002's Note - Where did anyone say there were such expectations?}

23 Jun 2016 14:20:29
Actually Mk, he got tactically outplayed in the final against Sevilla. I agree that we shouldn't blame him for either final but saying we got it tactically spot on is nonsense. Klopp actually has to improve his tactical flexibility to adapt, he got found out in Germany and needed to try something new, from a system that wasn't as effective as it once was. Selling your best players is obviously a major stumbling block but he still had the second best squad in the bundesliga and managed 7th because the system wasn't working and he couldn't adapt.

Also, whilst individual players improved under klopp, I don't think the best was brought out of that squad. You are saying 8th in the league and no cups is the best out of that team? A team that is superior to the team that got 6th (just missing out on 5th) and got to two semis the season before? Doesn't make any sense. Klopp had 50 games which is pretty much a full season but I'd agree, it's not his squad and he need a summer under his belt but still we underachieved.

Saying BR would have managed lower in the league is unrealistic, I think we would have finished about 6th with Rogers and not made it to any of those cup finals which is again just as much as a failure but Rogers is deemed as a failure but klopps first season isn't? It was and there's no way to sugar coat it. On to next season and we should expect big improvements, as I have faith in klopp. But I don't masturbate over him like some of the others do for no particular reason.


23 Jun 2016 15:13:29
Irrelevant reply to my post Ed. I never said Klopp has been successful or impressive. The club should have given Rodgers the boot at the end of 14/ 15 season and given a new manager a preseason with his own transfer targets. Klopp has no excuses this season so that is what i will judge him on rather than the last, admittedly mediocre, season.


{Ed002's Note - He had more than 50 games and failed.}

23 Jun 2016 16:30:53
If we had not bottled the euro final and gotten back into the CL it would have been successful. As it stands it was irksome especially the way we capitulated and 8th is worse than hodgson. Like i have said before if it had been rodgers that did that people would have been baying for blood. I do not however think its a juxtaposition to believe we had a poor season but still fully support and love our manager. Bring on next season i say and let's have it.


23 Jun 2016 21:46:08
It's OK, we will convert ed002 from a doubter to a believer 😉.


23 Jun 2016 09:38:15
Eds with the well documented transfers we're expected to make, how do you see us competing next season? Would u expect to see us competing for top 4 or maybe even loftier ambitions?

Regards

Niall.

Believable2 Unbelievable1

{Ed002's Note - It depends on what changes the other teams make Naillo and how everyone settles. Three sides who would expect to be at the top of the league also have new managers to contend with. The Liverpool owners want to win the league and are continuing to try and buy it, but others will be looking to refresh their squads. Klopp certainly needs to learn from his past mistakes and recognise his need to adapt. So a little early to predict where Liverpool will end up.}

23 Jun 2016 11:05:34
Cheers ed, I think no more so than all other fans when u hear man united have all but wrapped up zlatan ibra, man city signing quite a few exceptional players, arsenal signing the Swiss player, Chelsea yet to flex their muscles and you compare them to our lesser known signings, you get slightly anxious. But I guess as we all know, you can only put 11 players out on the pitch.


23 Jun 2016 17:16:30
Top 6 finish with a decent run in Cup competition. Weather you call me a doubter or whatever. I can't see us getting into top 4 with Zielinski.


23 Jun 2016 09:03:27
Ed001

Do you think that leadership skills are a key quality that our recruitment target? As we all know, the Sevilla final brutally exposed how weak the leadership is. How do you think that will pan out going forward?

Believable2 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - it certainly has not been in recent years, but it should be. We do lack leaders on the pitch, but Klopp has always tried to get the players to show initiative, so I am sure the players he is looking to sign will have leadership qualities. If not, we could suffer more failures like that.}

23 Jun 2016 10:08:12
Karius and Grujic strike me as potential leaders in the future. With Henderson and Flanno hopefully back as regulars in some way shape or form next season, we should see some more vocal assaults and passion on the pitch!

I think Sakho and/ or Lovren need to step up next year in particular though. As does Emre Can. He'll turn 23 next year and your midfielders need to be leaders, as they control the game.


23 Jun 2016 17:18:24
I don't know y people think flanno is someway a messiah of the the club. He is extensively average player. There is no way in heaven he would replace Clyne. Absolutely no chance.


23 Jun 2016 08:32:06
Martin Ødegaard?!?!?! Lazy journalism surely. Haha.

Believable7 Unbelievable0

23 Jun 2016 09:32:40
Nah Ba would be lazy journalism I'd say he had to look up how to spell that name and all! All takes time!


23 Jun 2016 08:09:01
Alright eds, any idea if any clubs have successfully employed a similar philosophy to moneyball in football? Watched a film on it the other day and thought it was quite interesting. Although to be fair it would be difficult to quantify the roles of some positions and analyse them statistically. Just thought it was an interesting idea and with it being used successfully by the Red Sox across the pond and our obvious connection with them. Thanks.

Believable1 Unbelievable3

{Ed001's Note - it is a totally different thing, all clubs now employ statisticians and analysts to check the stats, but you can't pick players purely based on it. Though FC Midtjylland and Brentford are both now trying to do so, due to being owned by a man whose money was made through stats analysis.

The problem is that you can't boil football down to individual moments in quite the same way. At any moment what one player is doing is influenced by and influences the actions of the 21 others on the pitch. The variables are monstrous compared to baseball, plus there are less games to collect data from, leading to inconsistencies in that data.}

23 Jun 2016 08:41:11
IMO, all it takes is just a football guy seating down with statistician and programmer to model a statistical tool that xan capture a player' value accurately. Never say impossible.


{Ed001's Note - your opinion is flawed as usual. It is simply not that easy because of the huge amount of variables, which is why it has not been done yet. For starters you have to figure out a way to alter it to suit the tactics used by each team involved. That changes during the course of a game, and massively affects how a player will play. How do you model the changes during a game when a goal is scored? As that changes things massively.}

23 Jun 2016 09:01:39
Lee your post actually really annoys me considering I make real time basic economic simulations and you act like making a programme like the one you say would be easy! Really clueless!


23 Jun 2016 08:56:50
Unfortunately no model captures the non-technical skills like attitude, determination, desire, discipline, professionalism which at the highest level can be the difference.


23 Jun 2016 08:58:10
Football cannot be boiled down to stats, there's a million and one variables that affect performance at any given time, scouting will always be more important than stats in football as its the only way you can analyse not just what is happening with the player, but why.


23 Jun 2016 09:09:39
Statistics had Joe Allen as the best midfielder in Europe at one point but i don't remember Barcelona bashing on his door. Stuart Downing was one of the leaders in assists when we bought him and we all know what happened there.


23 Jun 2016 09:15:25
When a ref sends a player off, a player returning to fitness, a player out on the lash, a player just became a father, suffered a loss, new signings embedding into a team it's an endless list almost. Way too many variables to get anything worthwhile from I would say.


23 Jun 2016 08:56:58
Could in theory be done Ed but the main thing as you said is lack of quantifiable data. Baseball is much more rigid in how its played there are fewer variables. Stats are incredibly powerful though when used right and I have no problem with using them. For instance if you had enough data you could run a full time simulation of the world itself, data analysis is definitely important but in football can't be the only thing.


23 Jun 2016 09:31:17
Seems to be a misunderstanding of the difference between statistics and statistical analysis to make a model. there aren't people just sitting in a room going wow Joe Allen has 92%pass accuracy sign him now ha!


23 Jun 2016 10:10:55
Lee, making models is not easy! Like Shane I also create models regularly.

I've just finished a 1:35 scale Sherman Tank, and it took me at least 8 hours to build!


23 Jun 2016 10:20:10
Im sure they used more than just a pass accuracy stat to consider him one of the best midfieders, Shane.


23 Jun 2016 10:47:47
Obviously Annie fields that's my point though, if you watch some things on sky etc they put up pass accuracy pass completion stats from different players across leagues and then make observations. This leaves out key things that also need to be equated such as position on the field passes are played difficulty of the pass, time to complete the pass, space the receiving player is in, also passes that are good and into space and the receivers miscontrol or a defensive error from a pass can lead to statistical anomalies where an assist or loss of possession is wrongly credited. My point is and was there's a huge difference between commonly used statistics and statistical analysis when judging a player.


23 Jun 2016 11:06:06
MK that means on your own you can build a full life size model in 280 hrs - let me know how you are getting on in 2 weeks (as it's stats i don't expect you to sleep ;o) )!


23 Jun 2016 12:42:54
I actually think that a stats based, accurate analysis of a player could be possible. It's true there are huge numbers of variables to factor in but I would imagine some form of regressive analysis would work better in that it would enable a statistician (or hell an economist as this is what they do anyway) to separate the stats that matter from the ones that don't - and this would also include statistical data off the pitch i. e. players background, socio-economic background, education, etc etc as there will be a large number of these background factors that invariably affect success on the pitch. It would take a lot of time and a lot of trawling through data (as well as using previous statistical analysis available) but I do think it could be done. I don't think analysis of a football players on pitch statistics is anywhere near enough to give an overall picture though - they spend 90 minutes a week (sometimes 180) on the pitch and the rest of the time off it, that time is arguably more important and statistical data has to try make sense of that data as well. Stats relating to passing or tackling or shooting are far too narrow and tell us nothing about a players mentality or hunger or drive or any of these other things that matter.


23 Jun 2016 17:25:47
Way too many variables. For example, we sometimes forget about the off the field issues. Or what if a player moves to another country and is finding it hard to adjust? Way too many factors that dictate a players life which can in turn dictate their performance on the pitch.


23 Jun 2016 04:53:08
Burnley have agreed to swap their home match with us so that we have more time to get the stadium ready. Means they are without a home match for almost 2 months in the middle of the season. Class act by them.

Believable16 Unbelievable0

23 Jun 2016 05:17:03
That is brilliant of them to be so accommodating.


23 Jun 2016 07:35:08
Especially after the ings situation.


{Ed001's Note - good point.}

23 Jun 2016 08:21:36
It is nice to think it was a gesture, but I suspect a favour or a few pounds will be returned.
Hey, they can have Balotelli for free.


{Ed001's Note - I very much doubt there will be any money exchanged, they are just not run as badly as us and are willing to work with the other teams in the league.}

23 Jun 2016 08:32:53
I'm sure the club will find a way to stuff this up somehow.


23 Jun 2016 08:47:14
Yeah well done Burnley 👌

Feels like 1987/ 88 all over again 😃.


23 Jun 2016 09:10:52
Scousekev, why punish them when they are helping us out?


23 Jun 2016 01:36:41
Update Your Euro 2016 Predictions

Believable0 Unbelievable1

22 Jun 2016 23:28:51
Anyone with much info on Douglas Santos? Left back now linked.

Full Brazilian International 22 and scouted by Barcelona is all I have found. He is allegedly available at £7.7m.

This is a fully capped Brazilian International and this is exactly why I'm finding Chilwell a nobody at £10m an utter joke of a transfer fee request.

Believable4 Unbelievable4

{Ed002's Note - There has been an enquiry and a discussion with another EPL side.}

23 Jun 2016 07:25:16
How much would to want for ojo?

Chilwell won't look daft when he's worth 30. Look at Ali, dier. We will all whine when he goes on yo become huge in the game and we baulked over 3 mil!


23 Jun 2016 07:29:30
Why bring Chilwell into it? Calling someone a nobody is just disrespectful and not needed. Everybody knows that player quality doesn't matter so much for Brazil, more marketability and how much money they can milk out of them. Grinds my gears how fans talk about players these days.


{Ed001's Note - not just that, but who know what Santos's mentality is like? Will he adapt to the English game? Whereas Chilwell is meant to have an excellent attitude and is already fully adjusted to the English game. I don't know why people are slagging him off, ignorance it seems, because he is extremely highly rated within the game and had the opportunity to join a number of Prem clubs this summer.}

23 Jun 2016 08:27:21
I remember similar doubters last year having a whinge because we signed one of the "worst players in France" for £10m.
12 months later and Origi became some peoples preferred striker.
If we sign Chillwell he'll get my backing 100%.


23 Jun 2016 08:59:17
He literally says he has no idea about this guy but is happy to spend 8 million on him as apposed to 10 on the other player he doesn't know. Fantastic logic on display as always.


 
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