Liverpool Banter Archive January 23 2018

 

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23 Jan 2018 21:00:15
I don't know if you guys will agree, but with our rivals actually strengthening their squad for the second part of the season and the race for top 4 still open, the big question will be is our squad strong enough to make it to the finish line?

Yesterday was a bad day definetely but we all have to agree there's a little something missing, I think because of our rivals being active during this transfer window, we will have to buy someone if we want to compete, otherwise we will fall short of a top 4 spot and risk losing more important players with the lack of champions league.

I hope that it won't come to that, I hope that the gaffer will pull something out of nowhere. But for now, the team need to put yesterday's defeat behind them and look forward to Saturday.

Believable8 Unbelievable3

23 Jan 2018 21:58:45
We just spent 75 million on VVD. I think overall we are strong enough to get top 4, not to challenge for the title. We need more reinforcements for that, which I hope we can get in the summer.


23 Jan 2018 22:29:22
Someone please tell me how Chelsea Or Spurs have strengthened? Even though city will walk the league have they? Arsenal and United have swapped two players.


23 Jan 2018 23:29:54
I love Klopp, absolutely love him, but, at times it's like we don't really have a plan B, he tinkers personnel, however, we essentially play a 433 and when fit Bobby, Salah and Mane up front, with a hard working pressing midfield.

The problem with playing Can, Wijnaldum and Ox, is that when the opposition attacks, they will run around, chase, harry, make tackles and when the opposition as a team is dispossessed further forward, there is more space for our front three to make runs into and the pass to make is more obvious.

When the opposition sits deeper the space is harder to find and IMO our current midfielders have neither the ability to run at players, the vision to pick a pass to make space for others, or shoot from distance effectively enough and you see a performance like last night where the ball goes from side to side until an inaccurate pass is picked off and the opposition can break.

That is something Coutinho at times did give us. I still think we can make top 4 with our current squad, but, switching to a diamond 442 with maybe Firmino and Salah up front ahead of Lallana, or getting more width in the side (we were very narrow last night), by having Mane right and Salah left instead of inverted forwards always cutting in, with Firmino and Solanke up front.

I don’t know, I’m sure Klopp knows the players better than me, but when teams decide to defend we are at times very predictable, but we do possess the personnel to mix things up a bit, (Lallana and Henderson’s long term injuries aside) .

If he (Klopp), does genuinely not think we have, then either, we need to purchase someone this window regardless of whether it is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice, or whatever, or he needs, to re-evaluate his footballing philosophy a bit, as CL qualification is year by year becoming increasingly (and I don’t necessarily agree with it) important for clubs with high aspirations to achieve both financially and to attract top talent.

On a side note, what the hell is going on with Mane, half the player he was last season, do you think he needs to be kept in the side for his pace and potential for goals like the Man City one and hope he regains some form as the end of the season looms, or does he need some time on the bench?
Sorry for the long post.


23 Jan 2018 23:33:46
Spurs and Chelsea both have better starting 11’s than us and have better centre backs, goalkeepers and centre midfielders.


24 Jan 2018 01:18:28
Good post Bruce - I think we have a grafting midfield and a lightning attack and that works against the teams that attack us, but less so against the defensive setups. How many goals have Can, Milner, Gini, Ox scored between them? Not a lot. Clearly that’s an issue, as is the lack of width, and I think you hit it in one.

I would agree against the sides that plan to sit deep and defend we perhaps look to put two strikers in the box(which would also allow Firmino a bit freer role and still have another presence in the 6 yards area) and then look to Mane and Salah to create the width and get in behind.


24 Jan 2018 07:25:09
We had plenty of moments where we passed our way around swansea. We just need to be patient and have confidence that we can dobthat all game.


24 Jan 2018 07:31:49
I don't think grafting is the word that springs to mind for Can or Wijnaldum. I think shafting is a better description for a player that gets paid thousands of pounds a week and can only get around to giving their all for a full 90 minutes once every three or four games.


24 Jan 2018 07:57:52
Only one game, we win the next two or three and all is forgotten.

I do think a good, attack minded signing between now and the 31st would ease some tension though, so here's hoping!

Don't care if we overpay if worth it, it's not my money, all I care about are results on the pitch.

I see Luan of Gremio is being linked again, strange one that, we'll see I guess.


24 Jan 2018 08:32:14
Let’s face it, we were pretty crap on Monday night yet we still had the chances to take something from that game. Sure, we didn’t have 20 shots and their keeper didn’t play a blinder against us but in another day Salah and Bobby put those chances away. We’re not going to dominate every team and despite being poor we could and maybe should have won it, usually considerd the mark of champions is it not?


24 Jan 2018 08:56:52
United have strengthen, arsenal have weakened, everyone else at this point in time has remained the same. Arsenal seem likely to bring themselves back up to the same level but that's still very much in the balance. No-one else really looks to be doing anything - even if all the paper talk comes through for Chelsea, their strong central defense will have another body which is hardly great and they'll have a lower quality copy of Morata, hardly a significant difference.


24 Jan 2018 11:57:51
Yeah spurs and Chelsea are SO much better than us in midfield, defence and keeper. Clearly that’s what they’re 20 points in front of us. oh wait.


23 Jan 2018 20:06:16
Reading Ed2's comments about a breakaway European league the one thing I can't understand is if the new league could start as early as 2021 and teams like spurs and Everton won't be involved why are they building new grounds costing one billion and half a billion. Just doesn't seem to make any financial sense. Are they taking a massive risk or will they still get enough TV money to fund these.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - it won’t be happening that soon.}

24 Jan 2018 08:28:18
As much as I hold ed2’s opinion in the highest regard, I really don’t think that this breakaway will happen. I certainly think something has to be done to stabilize the lower level teams but I just can’t see the machine of UEFA grinding to a halt nor accepting its demise without a fight. They seem to be playing nicely with the clubs now but I’m sure if it comes to it, sharp teeth will be shown. I’m a novice when it comes to things like this but I’d imagine we’d see an entire new cup competition introduced before a league. If nothing else but to make more money. Short of the teams uprooting completely and leaving for wealthier climates, I can’t see any local fan base of any club getting behind this move for the chance to see massive clubs when the cost is likely to be so high with essentially little in the way of competition. Trophy cabinets it’s will be a lot emptier for most of these super clubs and with no relegation, there’s an inherent lack of competition overall. Fans of football want their teams to win trophies- it doesn’t matter where in the world your from, it’s something all of us can agree on. I think a super league makes sense for all the money the clubs can make out of it, but I can’t imagine it would be sustainable in the long term- I’m quite sure a club like Man U or city know this. I’m quite sure they’ll talk about it quite a lot but I just can’t see them making that leap. Moreover, I think they’ll accept a hefty bundle for the viewing rights instead. Again, I agree that football needs to change but I just can’t see this happening and honestly, I really don’t want it to either.


{Ed002's Note - UEFA have been running scared of this for years and have shown up to several of the meetings trying to get the clubs to come to a solution. They are happy for it to happen if they control it. Three English sides have already committed to it.}

24 Jan 2018 10:50:27
Would Liverpool eventually be included, or are they out of the picture completely?


{Ed002's Note - Not in the initial group - perhaps later.}

24 Jan 2018 10:52:50
Cheers for the reply ed. Perhaps when the window shuts and you have a little more time, I’d like to ask further questions on the matter to get a better idea on the whole thing. Questions which will no doubt test your patience at this current time.


{Ed002's Note - Sure.}

Swansea City v Liverpool Match Review - A Liverpool Perspective

23 Jan 2018 20:39:53
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Swansea City v Liverpool Match Review - A Liverpool Perspective

Believable5 Unbelievable0

23 Jan 2018 21:57:47
Good review Ed I agree with 90%. But VVD I don't agree, it was not the fault of the defence it was the fault of the midfield and forwards that we didn't win the game or at least get a point. Swansea only had 3 shots in 90 minutes.

VVD created our best 2 chances of the whole game. Of course VVD and Matip had to step out of defence and run forward because the midfield never did. VVD put it on a plate for Firmino's only chance of the whole game in the last minute and he missed it.


23 Jan 2018 22:21:12
Wijnaldim and Milner have to go in the summer. Wijnaldim should never have been bought and milners the clubs highest earner which is disgraceful.


23 Jan 2018 23:18:52
Very frustrating game to watch and you’re spot on with the slow tempo and just moving from side to side. Robertson annoyed me last night he had so many chances to get a cross in but time and again he turned back and passed it short. The centre midfield worries me with our lack of depth at the minute, Wijnaldum shouldn’t be playing he has been non existent.

Even the City game when everyone upped their performance he didn’t turn up. Looking at our bench last night it was clear we had nothing to throw at the game. To be fair to Swansea they shut up shop, defended well and deserved to get something out of the game. Liverpool need a kick up the arse every now and then so fingers crossed this was it.


23 Jan 2018 23:21:06
Not just me who was surprised to see Ox being substituted? It should have been Gini tbh, but it's gone now! Great review of a shocking night and hopefully one we'll learn from! Hopefully Trent plays in the cup and show the lads how to take a corner!


23 Jan 2018 20:50:20
Very good, thanks Ed1, couldn't agree more with all of that.


{Ed001's Note - thank you.}

23 Jan 2018 20:57:32
Excellant read as always ed001 kind regards.


{Ed001's Note - thank you.}

23 Jan 2018 21:11:46
Great review ed probably the best of the season so far.


{Ed001's Note - odd as it was probably the worst result, but thank you very much Ace.}

24 Jan 2018 01:38:42
I can't bring myself to think about the match 😣🤧.


23 Jan 2018 21:29:37
Bob on as always Ed, not a single outfield player nor the manager emerge with an iota of credit from that performance. In the last 20 years numerous managers have failed to combine tactical nouse and motivational skills in order to get the team consistently maintaining the levels required irrespective of the opposition.

Klopp claiming the game was lost in the first half is a damning indictment of his own capabilities as manager. He had 15 minutes 3 substitutes and another 45 minutes play to turn that around. Blaming the players, a la fat Sam, was pathetic and unbecoming of someone who is supposed to base his philosophy on speed, passion and aggression.
Not impressed with excuses, prepare the team properly. the Swansea manager did his job.


{Ed001's Note - very disappointing from Klopp to be honest, but everyone makes mistakes.}

24 Jan 2018 04:28:03
To slate the defenders is way off, IMO.
Full backs you could criticise, yes, but I thought on the whole that was a back four I'd happily go into a big game with and see develop together.

I hate to say this but Coutinho's loss goes deeper than the creativity issue; he was also the conductor of the team's tempo. Zipping about, his style invited everyone else to pick it up too.
The balance of the team did not look right at all, and that is down to the midfield and specifically Can. He was picked as Captain and fulcrum, and the comparison with Coutinho's style could't have been more apparent and harsh.
Roll on Keita, and Jordan Henderson getting fit again, I say.


{Ed001's Note - obviously you missed the point, it was the defence that conceded a goal to the worst attacking team in the Prem, so they deserve criticism. They were, to a man, awful when defending.

As for this ludicrous stuff about Coutinho I keep reading, utter nonsense. We lost these kind of games regularly with him playing, one of the main problems we had, while he was 'zipping about' was that he did no such thing and was as much at fault as everyone else for lack of intensity. What he would do was pick up the ball, get anywhere within 40 yards of the goal and smack it hopefully. He was as lacking in creativity as the team we put out against Swans when it mattered. It is not about him.

It is about intensity and pace, pace in moving the ball. Couts brought neither to the team, so this was not about him. Couts is, like all of our team, better against the big boys, when he is actually up for it. His loss is a big loss to the team overall, but not in games like that.}

24 Jan 2018 07:29:55
Ye ed1, its laughable that coutinho gets brought up after a game like that. I can rattle of a dozen games where coutinho did jack sh*t against such deep lying teams.

To me, our attack comes down to patience. We had a few solid one-touch passing moves that had swansea scrambling. But then we lose patience and don't come back to it and try again. City kept plugging away against us and got their goals, we can do the same and keep believing in what we do. Cos when we do play that one touch football, ot looks good and we create chances. We jist dobt persist enough.


{Ed001's Note - spot on mate.}

24 Jan 2018 08:03:41
On the other side you could name a dozen games like this where Coutinho made the difference. Where he got the first goal or assist and we won the match or got a point.

I am dam sure he would have offered more than Gini.


{Ed001's Note - name them then. Because I don't remember a single one.}

24 Jan 2018 08:46:54
without even thinking didn't he stick a free kick in the top corner last minute away to Stoke to win us the game?


24 Jan 2018 08:53:59
As an example Ed that game at Anfield a few weeks ago vs Swansea - it was tight in the first half, not much available in terms of space or chances but Coutinho smashed in a worldie and that eventually meant the game opened up and we scored more. Those sorts of goals change games. His freekick away to Arsenal last season turned the game around for the better. He has scored a few crucial goals, on separate occasions, against Stoke before to win the game or snatch us something. He's scored the only goal against resilient Southampton teams before.

I'm no saying I actually disagree with your overall viewpoint ED as Coutinho did go missing as much as anyone else whilst here, no doubt about it. He was capable of turning a game at times though you just never knew which game it would be - put it this way I know who I would choose between Wijinaldum and Coutinho to alter the course of a game. The problem is now Coutinho is gone we don't really have other options to play in midfield - we have an unfit Henderson, an unfit Lallana, Can (who is nailed on in the deeper role), Ox who offers a lot of graft and directness but little in terms of finesse or creativity, Milner who offers basically nothing, and a very poor Wijinaldum - it's an incredible weak midfield and one with very little creativity in it.

I think the bigger issue is motivation though, too many of the players lack it. I'm not sure we would be able to find, ability wise, an exact replacement for Coutinho, I just hope we find a player we a damn sight more motivation and fight then the ones currently at the club.


{Ed001's Note - you can't count Arsenal, you are totally missing the point if you do. You are talking about one or two games, then comparing it with one performance and trying to draw conclusions. Knee jerk is the word. Couts was as responsible as anyone for our struggles against lesser teams and we have improved this season when he has not played, which is far more indicative than one game.}

24 Jan 2018 09:26:01
We are not saying that Ed he had plenty poor games but he was our most talented player. I was in favour of the sale it had to be done but it leaves a big hole in the squad and more importantly the first 11.

Over the last 3 years it is a fact he has won us more points than any other player. (by a distance) .

Even this season He also after 30 mins 0-0 took the corner for Can's first goal v Brighton. Game changer.

Versus Bournemouth at 0-0 he scored the first after 20 odd minutes. Then set up the second a few minutes later I think. Game changer.

Those are this season even when he wasn't playing his best he still won us points.

West Ham away last season, the massive match going no where, West ham had some chances. He then slides the ball through to Sturridge. Who can do that now?

We are left with a midfield lacking any sort of genuine quality.


{Ed001's Note - I disagree. He was good but went missing more often than not.}

24 Jan 2018 09:54:06
No ED I see your point and am not really disputing it - you asked the previous poster for examples of Coutinho affecting/ influencing/ changing the game against lesser opposition. As you rightfully state Arsenal cannot be counted but the others can. I know Coutinho was very inconsistent, even last season and the first half of this when he has arguably been at his best. The point is you never know when he would produce a rabbit out of a hat but knew that he could, and opposition knew that too. Just having a player like him on the pitch gives others space - that midfield we played against Swansea, any team who organizes themselves half decently is going to do well against them because there is a lack of creativity and guile in it. It is not the only reason for our troubles vs Swansea, there are many many more which have been mentioned (defence, wrong tactical approach, motivation, etc), but the midfield seems worryingly weak and selling Coutinho without replacing him has hardly helped matters. Would he of made the difference vs Swansea? Nobody can say - he might of had one of his anonymous games were he did little and drifted in and out, or he might have produced a world class goal/ pass that made the difference - the point with Coutinho is that it was a possibility, can we say the same thing about Can Wiji or Oxlaide?


{Ed001's Note - that is not the point though. The point is that it should not have mattered if we had performed at our best. It is not a lack of Coutinho that made the difference. It was the fact that we had 11 players on the pitch who did not step up, not that one is gone.}

24 Jan 2018 10:04:38
Painful review ed thanks. Hopefully Klopp learns from his mistakes. Huddersfield away could be a similar type of game. Cheers.


{Ed001's Note - 'Udders don't often sit back like that, so hopefully not.}

24 Jan 2018 10:17:17
In his last 9 starts, when not playing at his best.
7 goals
4 assists
4 man of the match v Spartack
Brighton
Bournemouth
Swansea
all so called lesser games.
I also think he was man of the match v Arsenal. Where he created many chances that the others missed.


{Ed001's Note - hmmmm MOTM I would dispute in any game this season. He was lazy every single time and played for himself not the team. If you think he was that great, then I am wasting my time as you only want a show pony, not a player.}

24 Jan 2018 10:35:07
The players won't play at their best every game. What they can do is play at their normal level. You are asking them to move the ball quicker, play at a higher tempo etc. I am sure that is what Klopp asked them to do.

The real question is are they capable of that? I don't think they are consistantly able to do it. To win games agains't the lesser teams often we will need Salah or Mane to have a really good game. Or get a goal from a set piece to start us off. The first goal is everything in these type of games.


24 Jan 2018 10:48:25
Are you disputing his 7 goals and 4 assists in his last 9 games. Watch the first half v Arsenal this season where he created 3 quality chances for Firmino and another for Salah. They missed them all and then he scored himself. No way on earth was he playing for himself that day. Lazy not in that game, he ran them ragged for 45 minutes.

People have very short memories and the way he has left has clouded people's opinion of him as a footballer. I don't say he was world class but I am very very sure he was our best player over the past few seasons. You don't get sold for £140m if you are not a very very good player.


{Ed001's Note - obviously you are not bothering to read what I said, so I won't waste my time.}

24 Jan 2018 11:58:34
That’s one of the best review I have read here in a long long time. You are spot on for Can as the blame he gets is coz he is seeing out of his contract just like they abused Coutinho who was moving. Nailed it on the full backs. Dreadful, Can’t cross, Can’t pass, Can’t shoot and Can’t defend. Solid view on Lallana the savior. He offers nothing and you got that one dead spot on. Since you are the Ed, I am sure people won’t abuse you.

I would like to urge you to add an extra para in your reviews of what should be the counter measure against such teams or results!

Well done
Cheers.


24 Jan 2018 12:34:44
Coutinho was very good for us, no doubt about that and I do agree with Markp08 that some have had their judgement clouded by the way and speed of his departure (possibly myself included) .

As I have said since it became apparent he was definitely leaving in January, he was a fine, fine player for us, he could have even been a legend for us, but his departure and all that came with it has forever consigned him to just having being a very good player in our history.

Nothing special, we've had lots of very good players.

Yes I also think he was excellent in the final games of his time with us, his stats stand for themselves but if his attitude was better, he could have done more and we could have won games like the Arsenal match away from home.


24 Jan 2018 22:13:44
Let us hope whoever comes in is as good Olrish.


23 Jan 2018 19:52:19
Edds. have you heard of any new proposals by UEFA on capping transfer spend to £80 Million per season?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - Don’t worry about it.

23 Jan 2018 20:38:24
Not going to happen then.


23 Jan 2018 21:05:44
Oh dear, what would the two Spanish sides say?


23 Jan 2018 22:25:23
DaveyBootle1 the way its going they might be able to buy salah's football boots with that kinda budget.


24 Jan 2018 12:36:02
Davey, they would probably say "Vete a la mierda".


23 Jan 2018 19:33:54
People go on about replacing PC. We have Bobby, we need to replace Gini and Can, neither are consistent or imposing enough our midfield is poor.

Believable10 Unbelievable2

23 Jan 2018 21:13:07
We have replaced one of them.


24 Jan 2018 11:56:26
I really don't understand why people keep thinking Bobby can replace Phil, they are different players, just because they both Brazilians does n't mean the have the same attributes. Couts was a number 10, creative with killer passing, creates an opening out of no where etc . where Bobby is number 9, tricky forward, good positioning, clever movement at the right place, right time . With Couts you would expect more assists than goals, with Firmino you would expect more goals than assists .


23 Jan 2018 18:42:47
Flicking through the posts haven't seen Liverpool linked with any play makers


Are we looking at any?

Believable3 Unbelievable4

23 Jan 2018 18:53:57
I asked earlier mate but post not gone up. Assume not. I think the eds are getting pissed off with is asking tbh. But we only ask as they are our only source of info. I hope we are still trying mate to at least bring one in.


23 Jan 2018 19:14:27
Ed001 says we are looking and Klopp has targets. But he thinks the club won't get the deal over the line in this window. It looks like all our rivals will spend money in this window and we will make a profit.

If we make top 4 and spend our money on decent players in the summer all will be good. But not spending money now and missing out on top 4 is a real possibility.


23 Jan 2018 19:30:04
Not sure saying "we will make a profit" is a fair assessment 😂 as if we didn't break the world record transfer fee for a defender!

Technically it is true though ☹.


23 Jan 2018 19:34:12
I think we're going to fall just short of fourth with this current squad now we've Cashed in again on our best player.
Spend the damn money Reds! Last night prime example that the big games sort themselves out, and against your Swansea etc need World class players to Win you games when you're playing rubbish.


23 Jan 2018 19:55:31
Think we will still make top 4 with the squad we have, last night was just a bad day at the office.

My only concern is if any of the front 3 get injured things will get a lot harder.

Agreed a creative midfielder is needed but if we get one in Jan then life becomes a lot easier.


23 Jan 2018 21:30:10
We will not quite make top4 imo. 5th at best and our failings to bring someone on to replace our most creative player will cost us.


24 Jan 2018 07:32:06
Oh boohoo mark. The players that aare moving are players we're not interested in or are unattainable (sanchez) . we ain't gonnaa buy just to satisfy your desire for the club to have the biggest net deficit of all the clubs in the universe.


24 Jan 2018 08:11:04
There will be many players moving to our rivals in the next few days so it shows you know nothing. You will be the first on here in May saying

never mind at least we are in the Europa League and Salah's replacement will be real quality in 2 or 3 years.

We have a tiny net spend over 5 years. Less than Everton. We went shopping on Wednesday bought VVD then on Thursday doubled up and sold PC.


24 Jan 2018 11:12:08
well done missing my point completely. they are players we are not interested in and can't attain anyway. auba may end up at arsenal but he doesn't like klopp. dzeko moving to chelsea, you think dzeko is going to fit our style? we have our target and may just have to wait until the summer to get them.
I'm not a cry baby, so I'll just get on with being excited for the guys we have in red now and seeing if they can rise to the challenge!


23 Jan 2018 17:55:57
Bit of a break from the doom and gloom of last night.

Its clear in england that the reliability and capability of academies to produce decent, first team players is way behind that of almost every other european country. What do the eds and posters think the main factor behind this is and what can be done to improve the situation?

I can probably identify 3 or 4 main reasons. The first is that due to the influx of money into the premier league compared to other countries, is that youngsters are being payed far too much. I have no evidence to say they are not being payed as much in other countries, i am simply saying what i have seen. As a lad around the age of many academy players at the moment, i have seen myself the effect it has on the lads my age. Almost all of them have become arrogant, irresponsible, and do not try as hard as they used to. They lap up the benefits of the lifestyle, milk it for all its worth and then eventually get dropped. Flash cars that are regularly getting crashed and going out on the lash, expensive clothes, the vanity and effects it has had on them is disturbing. There have been rumours in the past about everton graduates (who i will not name) who have played for the first team regarding substance abuse and completely irresponsible behaviour. They cannot be bothered trying and are not incentivised under the current free market model on young player wages. The only solution i can propose would be a wage cap across england for players up until they are 21/ 23, but as is always the case in football, nothing will ever be done.

The second is the excessive and bizzare amount of money spent on foreign academy players. Im not sure why clubs think this is a good idea as being a talented prospect at 16 means absolutely zilch, yet clubs swan round buying players from other countries, blocking the way of lads here, with no result. Its as if they believe its football manager and that all young players with good ability in their mid teens will become world beaters, please reference the reputation of Cherno Samba and Freddy Adu on football manager, compared to how their respective careers actually played out. Why not just try and coach the lads who have played in your academy or country their whole lives, instead of blocking their path with countless 'next Zidanes' or 'next George Weahs', likely spotted on a highlight reel on Sport Bible or something? Use the lads at your disposal and maybr, just maybe, coach them to be better?! Again, maybe there should be a cap on the amount of foreign players allowed in academy age groups, but what do i know.

The third reason i can put forward is the ridiculous media circle and pressure put on both teams and youngsters in England. In spain, players are allowed to develop up until their mid 20's. Xavi only became a nailed on starter in his mid 20's. Gerrard only truly evolved into a world class player around 2004. Alonso, Drogba, Robben, Kane, there's just so many examples i could really go on forever. These players were given time and chances to become great. But now the standard is that you have to perform as soon as you come into the team and there is absolutely no room for improvement. I feel there is less pressure and criticism in other countries where football fans tend to be less mindless and are relaxed about giving young players minutes on the pitch and years to develop. Maybe its because of the cash incentives for finishing higher up the league, or the cost of missing out on the champions league and avoiding relegation? Whatever the reason, clubs in other countries seem more than happy to let young players be a part of the squad and give them the time and respect they need to develop, rather than the 'build them up and knock them down' mentality of the press and fans in england. they're all the reasons i can come up with but im interested to see what the eds have to say.

Believable12 Unbelievable2

23 Jan 2018 18:25:27
Nice read, I enjoyed that.


23 Jan 2018 18:41:55
AW a great read, thanks.


24 Jan 2018 07:23:54
Pretty fair assessment there AW I think personally - money being the common denominator and problem.
I'm watching football since the 80's when money was only starting to be seen in football really.
I remember hearing about Dean Saunders being sold to Liverpool from Derby County in the early 90's for £2.9m (breaking the UK transfer record if not mistaken) and getting himself £3k a week and I almost spat out my school canteen lunch.

We had players like David Burrows/ Steve Staunton/ Mike Marsh etc, good in their own right, but not great yet who were in their early 20's, they wouldn't make the reserves these days with the number of foreign kids possibly, yet Liverpool of the late 80's were as good as any club in Europe at the time.

The only "foreign" kids were Northern or Southern Irish, the odd Scandinavian perhaps, but that was about it - how I yearn for those days.

Without going too political, I think we have to forget the foreigner tag now to a degree as this is the way life generally has gone, not just in football, there are scores of non UK individuals working in pretty much every role these days, this might change after Brexit of course but unlikely to in Football, as when there's money to be lost, they'll find a way to work around it.

People say, "if they're talented enough, they'll get spotted", I don't agree with that myself as there are many variables as to why you may not be seen by scouts and the likes.

My question is, why not take the Eric Dier route?
Go play in the Pro League in Belgium, or Portugal like Dier did?
Lower level leagues yes, but still, you may well get games and work yourself a move back to the bigger clubs in England or elsewhere.
Look at that kid who joined Dortmund in the summer from Man City, fair play to the lad for doing so, as he probably saw no way forward there, who knows why he went exactly but at least he had the stones to try it.

Many youths grow up around drugs or thugs, both or even worse in some cases, my advice is to get away from it (not saying Sancho did by the way) .
You might reap the benefits if failing at home.
English players don't usually take this route though for some reason.


23 Jan 2018 16:38:17
Ed001, is the overcoaching stifling the ability of midfielders to be able to dictate and change the rhythm and tempo in PL games?

Also, was the footbonaut (used at Dortmund) actually a useful training tool or is it indicative that we didn't bother installing one as it's overrated?

Most of our midfielders need two or three touches before it is passed. That seems to be one of our biggest deficiencies when playing against teams who are setup with a low block - which is about half of the teams in the PL right now.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

{Ed001's Note - it really depends on the coaching. You could overcoach someone in many ways. The issue is that they are stifled in their decision making into being robotic and not being able to surprise opponents.

One of the keys to the likes of George Best being unstoppable at times was their ability to do the unexpected. That does not mean he could dictate rhythm or tempo, though he could have been coached to do so. What overcoaching would have done in his case would be to remove that unpredictability he possessed.

In general the problem with overcoaching is that players will not change their approach during games on the fly. They will just rigidly keep doing what they are told until they receive new instructions.

The problem stems from youth levels rather than first team football though to be honest. They are often coached by people who are looking to rise through the ranks and so are more interested in results than developing young players. So fear of making mistakes ends up instilled in the players and what you see as a result are players constantly taking the safe option.

As for the footbonaut, like any training tool it is only a tool and as useful as you make it. It is like a wall. Do you just use it as a tool to keep people out of your area or do you play games using a ball and the wall to develop your touch and technique as well with it? It always comes down to the user how useful or otherwise a tool actually is. It is a highly expensive bit of kit, so you would only buy one if it is necessary.

As for the midfield and lots of touches, that is endemic throughout the team and more down to a mental attitude problem. On days when the intensity is high they will look to play the ball first or second touch. On days like yesterday, they will dwell on the ball and take more touches looking for the right pass, rather than just moving it quickly in order to keep the opposition moving until the right pass presents itself.}

23 Jan 2018 17:45:35
Thanks Ed!


{Ed001's Note - welcome.}

23 Jan 2018 18:38:38
Good question great answer. When Ed001s on form, which is most of the time to be fair, he's like a well lubricated Alan Hansen.


{Ed001's Note - thanks I think.}

23 Jan 2018 18:59:43
Have you done a match review yet ed001.


{Ed001's Note - oh gosh no I forgot, I will get cracking on it now.}

23 Jan 2018 19:02:12
Great response ed001 and I think you are on to something. Using a wall for touch and technique. Maybe if they used the wall it would teach to play with your head up scanning around and spotting the best pass because they have the confidence and awareness of the ball at their feet.

May be old school but at the younger ages could prove useful as they grow and develop.


{Ed001's Note - there are lots of things they do, but mostly it comes down to not telling a kid off for making mistakes. Let them make mistakes and they will learn for themselves that it doesn't work and try something else. It is about giving them confidence to try new things.}

23 Jan 2018 19:22:21
An excellent post there Ed1. Would love to read your opinion in in a match review.


{Ed001's Note - I am trying to get it done now mate.}

23 Jan 2018 19:36:11
Nice read that Ed. Can't agree enough. I can think of Hendo and Wij in our midfield who play it too safe.


{Ed001's Note - very much so.}

23 Jan 2018 20:54:26
Very good advice that Ed. Especially with the youngsters, I will try to use some of it myself.


{Ed001's Note - cheers mate.}

24 Jan 2018 08:43:20
I remember being coached by an ex pro (since deceased) who moved into coaching at a football summer camp when I was about 14.

It was only 5 days long, I was the best youth player at my club, was about 14 and going through a tough time both at home and at school.

He literally killed my confidence on day 1, constantly screaming at me to do things that were unnatural to me and when I played a great pass at one point, he ran up behind me and said something like "that was an accident wasn't it? "

I'll never forget it, but it made me work so bloody hard in the remaining days and it motivated me to do better and exactly as he told me, so much so that I won player of the camp at the end and even beat him in the vast majority of skill games we had to do.

He respected me by the end, but I believe he over-coached me personally and I never was the same player after really, maybe it was because I discovered girls though :)

It's the worst thing you can do in my opinion as a coach (over-coach a young impressionable player), but what do I know lol?!


23 Jan 2018 15:26:34
Good Afternoon Redmen,

Not the best game yesterday, the team just didn't turn up, it happens.
Funnily enough the result has left me more frustrated at the games we should of won but didn't such as Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea etc.

Games like yesterday happen to every club and they highlight the importance of taking maximum points in games you should win, which if we had done in the past we would not be looking over our shoulder now.

I didn't get a chance to follow the loanees this weekend but I have updated the list. For the remainder of the season the loans are as follows

Toni Gomes - Forest Green
Allan - Apollon Limassol
Origi - Wolfsburg
Chirivella - Willem ll
Randall - Hearts
Awoniyi - RSM
Ojo - Fulham
Whelan - Yeovil
Virtue - Notts County
Ryan Kent - Bristol City
Grujic - Cardiff
Keita - RBL

Onwards and Upwards Redmen.

Believable8 Unbelievable0

23 Jan 2018 17:46:30
I watched Randall in the Scottish Cup Edinburgh derby played well enough in a scrappy hard fought game. Unfortunately in my opinion he has probably found his level.


23 Jan 2018 14:35:19
It's funny how so many posters are livid the team seemed so complacent in the match, when just the day before so many were predicting a 5-0 thrashing.

Believable8 Unbelievable1

23 Jan 2018 14:41:43
The thing is SG, we should have beaten them 5-0. We played them a month ago and beat them 5-0, we scored 4 past the champions elect last week and missed a few sitters. They were bottom of the league, 5-0 was a realistic prediction. We just didn’t turn up.


23 Jan 2018 15:03:49
We should have beaten them, I agree, and the team didn’t turn up for sure. I just find it ironic everyone’s accusing the team of the exact behavior they were exhibiting themselves just a day before.


23 Jan 2018 15:18:15
Ron, its much harder playing the teams at the bottom of the league particularly with a manager change. Give them the credit they due, they had a good plan to stop our own game and they executed it perfectly. Move on.


23 Jan 2018 15:18:30
It was only 1-0 at half time at Anfield though, and guess who got the vital breakthrough?
The first goal is often key in games such as these, score and the opposition have to come out more.
I don't get that people are saying we should have been 3 up last night, they weren't even half chances.

The lack of creativity was a real worry, and set pieces were mostly dire.
That would have been Coutinho's forte, though let's not forget he is injured anyway.


23 Jan 2018 15:38:12
There is no one in the team who can conjure up that moment of magic or has the vision that Coutinho has. Considering his stats were comparable to DeBruyne (in 8 less appearances), those are big boots to fill. As soon as they went 1-0 up they knew they could literally stick ten men behind the ball and we had nothing to hit them with.


23 Jan 2018 16:07:01
The fans complancency on these pages have absolutely no meaning to the players, most of whom probably don't know this place exists.


23 Jan 2018 16:28:16
We struggled to beat the park the bus even with pc so nothing has changed we have had a good run just one dip hopefully back on track next game keep the faith.


23 Jan 2018 17:36:02
Let's just call it a 'blip'.
We're still in a good position to secure a top four finish.
We're still in the Champions League.
West Brom will probably use the same tactics at Anfield on Saturday. but I'm confident we'll bounce back and beat them.
Then we'll play some scintillating football and sweep Spurs aside. 😀.


23 Jan 2018 18:20:59
Because we win 5-0 in the home fixture doesn’t give us the god given right to win by the same margin in the away fixture. Two different times, venues, opposition managers, tactics. two completely different games! We are allowed to lose, teams are allowed to beat us. Move on. We didn’t get hammered, we got beat 1-0 it was one of them nights, and wevare on a 10 game losing streak, we are not in the midst of a crisis no need to overact. Disappointed yes but that’s the beauty of Football.


23 Jan 2018 19:54:20
Every match has it's own story and revelationsand if people do not understand that fundamental point in sports in general not just football then they should quit discussing or watching sports/ football altogether cos they will remain disappointed for literally no reason.


23 Jan 2018 20:25:58
My point is those saying “0-5” had plenty of justification and were not simply being arrogant.


23 Jan 2018 13:17:02
Eds in your opinion will there be any january transfers in? I know a lot of fans going crazy we've lost a game (its not the end of the world) but there does seem to be a lack of forward options if our front 3 are out.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - The club has already added a first team player and Liverpool has no shortage of options with Sturridge, Ings, Solanke etc..}

23 Jan 2018 14:57:48
Charlesdance, we have added a CB in VVD, I like most reds fans share your opinion that we need to strengthen the team and bring soneone in to replace the creativity in the middle of the park and last night showed that our current crop of CM's offer little going forward. Unfortunately it seems Klopp is pleased with what we have and we look done in this window. let's hope we remain in the mix in the top4, else it will be a case of our Manager getting it wrong in the market yet again.


23 Jan 2018 15:38:48
It’s the manner of the defeat, seen it far too often this season.


23 Jan 2018 16:00:13
To be fair, Mr Dennis, we have not seen it that often as we have not lost hardly any games other than Citeh and Spuds away and they were far differant games.


23 Jan 2018 16:08:40
Kloppsreds we have drawn 8 games as well. It is not how many you lose it is how many points you drop over the season.


23 Jan 2018 18:14:02
Ed002 if studge goes out on loan will that change the situation? Sorry if its been covered just read he may be off on loan so thought i would ask.


{Ed002's Note - Maybe Ings or Solanke will get a chance?

23 Jan 2018 19:58:33
Mark08, I disagree. We were losing more of these types of games in the past one and a half seasons under Klopp and this is our first loss to such a team this season in a game where NO ONE played well, a collective stinker. Also, the numbers show that we have won more games vs parked buses this season than last season and the draws you speak of, some of them were against Arsenal, Utd, and Chelsea (ho games we could have won with a bit more luck and better finishing) . I am as disappointed as you are BUT a bit more perspective is needed instead of the typical blanket statements.


23 Jan 2018 21:11:57
BRover get real. If we don't sort it very very soon we won't finish top 4. Who cares about last season you might as well bring up 5 seasons ago.

If buts and maybes, the facts are we have a midfield with very little quality and very little goal threat and that will not change in the next few months. We have been very very lucky this season that Salah has scored so many goals and helped us win us so many points. If he has a slight dip we are bang in trouble.

We need 80 points to get top 4 this season and if we don't change some things we won't get 80 points. No point sticking your head in the sand and pretending everything is ok. All our rivals are busy strengthening.


23 Jan 2018 12:58:46
Ed002 if I may, when a player hands in a transfer request I believe he gives up a certain percentage to a transfer or some bonus from his current club if what I've read is true? Can I ask is there a loan request as such? I have read on here and a few other sites that sturridge has it will put in transfer request but I really can't see a club taking a risk on the price we have put on his head so I imagine a loan will more than likely get sorted with lfc receiving a loan fee for his services. Do players receive bonus or peeve have of this fee or is it just theparent club that get that from the club taking the player on loan?
Thanks.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - Right, so a player who moves clubs but does not request the transfer is entitled to 5% of the transfer fee paid for by the selling club. For loans it makes no difference as they would have no financial entitlement. The parent club is given the payment and none is passed on to the player.}

23 Jan 2018 14:19:04
so in a situation like coutinhos where we reject the transfer request in the summer then sell in January, would the player be entitled to the 5% still?


{Ed002's Note - No. He submitted a transfer request - it never went away.}

23 Jan 2018 15:13:03
Thanks for your response ed.


23 Jan 2018 12:10:02
Ed002 mate, you asked me to remind you about a possible update from you on our developing of young players in December. I thought I'd give you a month to recover from your "weekend of degeneracy and libertinism in London. ".

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - Try me next week Reynard - I am travelling this week and it is very much panic stations.}

23 Jan 2018 14:08:48
I'll leave it until after the window Ed002.good luck!


23 Jan 2018 13:15:40
I blame ED01 for upsetting the footballing gods by letting the secret out and putting up the picture.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

23 Jan 2018 13:34:13
If I'm honest, it's my fault. I've never bet on Liverpool in for a lone game before, but i had us on to win 1-5 😂 I'm sorry lads. It won't happen again.


23 Jan 2018 13:47:14
Everyone on here yesterday saying 5-0 and so on, just asking for trouble.


23 Jan 2018 13:48:51
Maybe the tree only works for home games?

Therefore, the tree must stay up or the gods of football will look down on Liverpool in disgust for tearing down a most glorious tree.

Save the tree!


23 Jan 2018 13:01:08
Peter Crouch anyone? Would be a great addition to the squad particularly for those games away from home like last night. Would be a relatively risk-free buy and I'm sure he would love the chance to come back to Anfield.

Believable8 Unbelievable13

23 Jan 2018 13:08:34
Best post for this week, even though it's only Tuesday :D :D :D.


23 Jan 2018 13:35:28
I think we should get in Harry Redknapp and then go all out in the summer for Crouch, Defoe and Kranjcar.


23 Jan 2018 14:57:06
How about berbatov MK. Seems he is doing piss poor in ISL?


23 Jan 2018 19:59:16
Can Louis Saha come out of retirement?


23 Jan 2018 20:56:53
How's Pedro Mendes getting on?


23 Jan 2018 12:38:14
Afternoon Ed's n reds, is it just me or does anyone else think it's degrading to give first Coutinho (who wanted out) the captaincy then doing the same with Emre Can (who also wants out)? Not only that, although we played poor and Swansea seen out there game plan I also think it's embarrasing to throw VVD upfront as a target man as a plan B.

Believable10 Unbelievable4

23 Jan 2018 12:43:22
It maybe is slightly embarrassing to throw a defender up top but I would have done it earlier. It was crying out for us to be more direct imo and we nearly caught them out a few times with balls over the top.
I didn’t think Swansea where as amazing at the back as people are saying, we just never really tested them at the back, we just played in front of there 2 defensive lines.


23 Jan 2018 12:45:44
Embarrassing doubtful but questionable definitely.


23 Jan 2018 13:01:05
I agree mate. I don't think the captains role is as crucial as people make out, but it is seen as an honour to lead your team out, and anybody who denies that is a liar. All young players talk about how much of a dream it is to captain their club. That's an honour Can didn't deserve.


23 Jan 2018 13:05:02
VVD does get on the end of pretty much everything aimed at him but I can see your point. The need for a skilful technician in midfield became all to apparent yesterday. Gini is just a wasted shirt in games like yesterday and the sub that klopp should have made was Lallana on for Gini not Ox.


23 Jan 2018 13:14:23
Not embarrasing to spend 75m on a player to sort your terrible defence out and then in his premier league debut try rely on the same (defender) to get you out of trouble at the other end of the park? So he’s that good he sorts the defence and attack out now? c'mon people it’s embarrasing and nothing short of.


23 Jan 2018 13:32:26
Why the armband is given to someone (Can) who is simply not good enough is baffling.

The lad is as mobile as a hgv and need dropping.

I would wish him the best of luck in his ventures, and only wish that we have a suitable replacement lined up, instead of fannying around with his agents.


23 Jan 2018 13:46:51
VVD wasn’t doing any defending in the last 30 mins so may as well chuck him up top. Karius could have played up top as well for the last 10.


23 Jan 2018 14:35:13
I know then klopp should of threw caution to the wind and subbed karius for Lallana and kept OX on for more fire power.


23 Jan 2018 14:39:38
Since VVD singles I’ve seen our fans asking for him to be on free kicks, think he’s going to sort all problems at the back out, calling for him to be captain and now people are happy with him being our plan b upfront in his premier league debut. Let’s just call him mr Liverpool hey? Sort it out reds.


23 Jan 2018 14:46:07
Whats so embarrassing about throw in a very good technically gifted player with good heading ability as a target man when you chasing a game with few minutes left. If you widen your horizon you will find Pique been doing it for Barcelona for many years, Ramos for Madrid etc . As for Can being captain, it was simple, out of the starting 11 last night Can was the longest serving (ie he been in the club the longest) . It was the same reason when Couts captained the team (so well I might add) .


23 Jan 2018 14:50:48
How can throwing you're biggest man up front for the last 5 minutes be embarrassing? Especially when he created our best goal scoring opportunity right at the end. Obviously it was the right thing to do. If Klopp didn't do it you would be asking why he never.


23 Jan 2018 14:58:31
Whats so embarrassing about playing a technically gifted, good header of the ball player as a target man in the last few minutes of a game you chasing . its normal, lots of clubs do it, Pique and Ramos being doing it for their clubs for years, Jaap Stam use to do it for united, stop being childish picking on little pointless things. As for Can being captain, again nothing wrong with it, of the starting 11 he was the longest serving at the club, it was the same when Couts captained the side before he left.


23 Jan 2018 15:27:43
It’s his prem debut with enough pressure already costing 75m, he is going to take the fall for every defensive mistake for the next few months by the press and more to the point HE SHOULD NOT BE OUR PLAN B, we have 10 other players on the pitch and can’t score against bottom of the league, did u know VVD and Matip created more than our midfield last night? We need to be able to think bigger when put in front of a 9-10 man defence it’s the same talking point every time we play teams that sit back. Citeh play very similar to us yet there’s no way they are getting beat by Swansea. You can’t sit there and blame the opposition every time they sit back and grind a result out just because our style is to play openly. Different horses for different courses and we need to be able to solve a long lasting problem in not being able to break teams down.


23 Jan 2018 12:32:55
Last nite we showed r true colours, too many fancy dans in r team, we thought last nite all we had to do was turn up and win about 6. Shows poor attitude and lack of leadership. U have to fight for every point in this league, but sadly we r not up for it. Pissed off all week now.

Believable6 Unbelievable9

23 Jan 2018 12:45:40
Have a beer or a few mate, it helps, trust me.


23 Jan 2018 12:52:26
That’s harsh - the team didn’t play well but you don’t go on an unbeaten run of 18 if you have that sort of attitude. We also had loads of chances to score, would you be saying the same if we’d scored 2 to win it? You’d probably be lauding how they didn’t panick and always looked in control!


23 Jan 2018 13:08:38
Bloody hell mate we unbeaten in the last 18 games and you think that the one poor performance is the true Liverpool? Go take your head for a wobble.


23 Jan 2018 12:29:37
My take on last night, for what its worth.

I'm not going to enter the debate on Can and Wijinaldum playing together in midfield - as you know what you are going to get from those two - and in my opinion they played their natural games in terms of covering ground and winning the ball back.

I was more disappointed with Mane and Salah. Throughout the whole game they were so narrow and not once offered a run down the side and in behind the full backs.

Nor did they pull wide, get the ball to feet and try and beat a player - time and time again Robertson, Can, Wijinaldum and gomez got the ball and saw nothing to aim at purely as they were static and narrow.

They made it far to easy for Swansea to defend . surely both Mane and Salah would back themselves to beat a fullback 1v1 once or twice ?

Agree with the thought of TAA coming on as Robertson was the only player who offered us some width .

A disappointing evening to say the least.

But to those who say the win against Man City was worthless. whilst I understand your point, it is actually crucially valuable.

Believable4 Unbelievable2

23 Jan 2018 14:44:56
Why was it crucially valuable?

they aren't catch-able, if we had been beaten by MC and beat Swansea we would have the same points. Either way you should always beat a team with -20 goal difference haha!


23 Jan 2018 14:48:57
Agree. Should have been 5 points clear of
Spurs and Arsenal by now and on points with Chelsea and 3 behind UTD. That’s why the win was so vital. Now it’s a must win against Huddersfield and Spurs!


23 Jan 2018 12:28:39
Any chance the club can send Gerrard to "have words" with Carragher? Sick of listening to him trying to rally hate brigades against Liverpool players in a desperate attempt to increase viewing figures, just so Murdoch can get richer.

Personally, i always dreamed of a team of Daniel Agger's anyway 😂.

Believable7 Unbelievable2

23 Jan 2018 13:10:48
What? Injured?


23 Jan 2018 13:16:18
Agger wasn't a patch on Carragher. He's a pundit paid to talk about matches. Last night we were below par so he pointed out our faults. If you want blind praise stick to the forums.


23 Jan 2018 13:37:35
Yeah but Agger didn't sell his soul to go and work for the guy who printed the lies about Hillsborough. Carragher can suck a fat one for all I care.


23 Jan 2018 14:49:28
Agree mk. I have no time for carragher the pundit. Can't stand him. so far up his own arse it's untrue. As a player I loved him and still do but he's let himself down as a pundit.


23 Jan 2018 16:14:07
Gerrard been on sky. Fowler been on sky. klopp talks to sky. The players talk to sky. I presume you watch sky. see where this is going.


23 Jan 2018 12:15:59
The biggest thing to say about last night was that it wasn’t a disaster, 9 times out of 10 we’d have got a draw out of that game and 7 out of 10 we would have won. Swansea had a well laid out plan that gave them the best chance to take points off of us and the cards fell very kindly for them. Swansea desereva lot of credit, they were calm, patient and their players followed the plan to the letter.



Whilst I’m not too upset about one result it does raise questions. Klopp has done a lot to dampen the Liverpool cliché this season, the one where we’re superb in open games but struggle against conservative and determined defences, but the last eight days belong to last year’s Liverpool and if we reverting to type then the next four months will be harder than we anticipate.



People continue to compare our work rate when we play well to when we play badly as if it’s an application problem which causes our bad results. This isn’t true, Liverpool worked just as hard last night as they did against City, the difference is what that hard work brings. Against City when we closed down the ball in their half the City players didn’t have options to release the ball because most of the team was ahead of the ball. This allowed us to steal the ball, overload the remaining defenders and score. Against Swansea this wasn’t the case, there was always someone in space behind the ball to receive it and Liverpool couldn’t unsettle them. This is the fundamental reason why are tactics work better against better opposition, they play in to our hands.



A big criticism I’ve read is that our play was slow but I disagree, we were trying to be patient and that’s what these games need. When there’s no space for our speedsters to exploit we’ve got to be cleverer with the ball, we’ve got to pull the defenders out of position and exploit the gaps we create and that’s where the Coutinho problem rears it’s head. We need the string puller, the guy who runs the show and can find those gaps, we don’t have one at the club right now. That game showed Can and Wiji’s limitations as players, they’re workhorses not artists. AOC is better but his game is more about his own movement than the ball’s, we’re missing something from our armoury and if we don’t get it this month I can’t see the second half of the season going as well as hoped.



As a final thought I want to praise VVD, yes it was his mistake that led to Swansea’s goal but beyond that I thought he was excellent. I want to compare him to Sakho, the last defender we had who looked like he relished defending. Physically and technically I think they’re similar players (although VVD is a far, far better header of the ball) but the difference was Sakho always looked on the edge of control, like he was scared of what the ball was about to do. VVD is the opposite, he is so, so calm. I expect this is where his reputation for not trying comes from but from my perspective I think this is just the attitude of a man who is confident and in control. Add in the fact that he seems to relish responsibility and I’m starting to see why he was so highly rated by parts of the media. What really excites me is that there’s a resemblance to Hyppia in how he carries himself and, as far as I’m concerned, there is no greater compliment a defender can receive.

Believable11 Unbelievable1

23 Jan 2018 12:56:12
Good post.


23 Jan 2018 14:24:41
thing that surprised me about yesterday was the lack of energy in the team, considering that they had much longer to rest for it than our last 10+ games.


23 Jan 2018 14:38:21
good post Putney, but playing TAA and not Wini, would have given us more width on the right side, and Robbo playing more forward passes, more so in the 1st half, would have put us on the front foot more often .


23 Jan 2018 14:32:18
City plays open football while Swansea let us have the ball. There is a big difference. You don’t need to press a team who doesn’t want to keep the ball. Here comes the intelligent part of the game. City always give their opposition space to run behind, something we used at will.

Swansea just sat back and made it a China wall and we tried penetrating it through the middle from 1st min to 90th min. Klopp was hoping for someone to perform magic rather than alternating the team to suit the play!

There are ways to break the parked bus, but you need to work on it. Not just sit back and expect one player to score from 30 yards!


23 Jan 2018 14:36:06
Putney, this is the best summation I've read since last night's hysteria.


23 Jan 2018 11:10:31
Just wanted to remind some of where we have been and where we are now;

David wash n'Go has just signed for Ross County, he used to be our option to change a game on the bench.

Last night was shocking, but hopefully just a bad night rather than a trend, we can put it right on Saturday.

Believable5 Unbelievable3

23 Jan 2018 12:14:26
I expect Huddersfield to park the bus
Advance Notice.


23 Jan 2018 13:08:18
Se for west brom.


23 Jan 2018 13:19:47
WY it has been going on all season we have lost 3 games and drawn 8 games in the prem and its only January. In games like last night that formation doesn't work with those players.

Swansea parked the bus as expected and we were not good enough to break it down. It will happen again many times in the remaining games.


23 Jan 2018 10:59:01
Hi MK.
Hope your well bud.
This is no way a argument. Just a convo 👍
I read that you think Klopp got it wrong last night. Can I ask why you think that mate?

Believable1 Unbelievable2

23 Jan 2018 11:17:42
Of course he does we lost so klopp got it wrong the last 18 unbeaten klopp largely got it right but let’s all throw a wobbly for losing one. “This always happens against teams outside the top 7” 18 unbeaten must’ve played against some of the lower league teams in that time.


23 Jan 2018 11:20:56
Personally mate, i don't understand why he gave Emre Can the arm band. I know too much is made of the importance of who is captain, but for me, giving it to a player who openly doesn't want to play for club is a massive middle finger to the players who do.

On top of that, everyone knew Swansea would sit in and try and frustrate us. So i personally would've started TAA at right back, and given Gomez a nice easy game at centre back. Let's be honest, Swansea barely got at our defence. Arnold also would've put in some better corners than the rubbish Salah served up. Speaking of corners, Klopp really needs to re-evaluate how he defends them. Just leave Salah on the half way line, and put two of your smallest players on the posts. They won't win an aerial dual anyway, so they're offering more defensively if they are readily placed to make a goal line clearance.

On top of that, why has Klopp picked Can and Gini together against a team where we were always going to have 65-70% possession? Can and Gini are both limited on the ball. Gini is best when pressing, and Can is best when he having to get stuck in to a physical battle. In possession, neither player has the speed of thought, the craft, the guile or the composure to hurt opposition. If Lallana was not fit to start, put Woodburn in there. I think even Milner could've offered more offensively than Gini or Can. You don't want Milner on the pitch if we're defending because he's a headless chicken, but he does make better forward runs than Gini and Can do. The decision to then sub Ox who was our only midfielder trying to make something happen, was equally terrible.

If Klopp didn't feel comfortable with Lallana, Milner or Woodburn though, he could've opted for the route i would've taken and played an extra striker instead of Gini or Can. Firmino got crowded out. I would've gone for Solanke before the game started if I'm honest, but Ings showed he could've done some damage if he'd had longer than 15 minutes! I'd start Ings vs West Brom if I'm honest.

Klopp does seem to learn (slowly) from mistakes and I'm just a humble arm chair fan at the end of the day. This is just where i thought he got it wrong. Football is subjective though, and Klopp will have his own ideas on what he got wrong so I'll back him to rectify it in his own way. The players were just as much to blame though as they missed some absolute sitters, scuffed set pieces, showed no urgency, and took too long in the build up play.

It was just one of them days where everything went wrong, but i don't think anyone can say it would've been an outlandish selection choice to pick Arnold and another striker against bottom of the league Swansea! In fact i bet 9/ 10 fans would've started Arnold in this game. Onwards and upwards mate.


23 Jan 2018 11:32:44
He got it wrong by playing Wijnaldum against a team that we knew would just sit back, sideways Wijnaldum has no zip in his play to unlock a defence and can't pass the ball more than 7 yards, the midfield were very slow to get going last night, hence our centre backs bringing the ball out more and creating more chances than Can And Wijnaldum put together, it took Klopp until the 68th minute as usual to change things and took off Ox before Wijnaldum which made zero sense, Id rather have Woodburn play deep than Gini as he has much more about him.


23 Jan 2018 11:42:50
The same thing always happens. If we are playing a top side we come out of the traps from the first second, pressing, closing down, forcing mistakes and winning it back.

Against the lesser teams we start off at pedestrian pace, thinking we only have to turn up and let them reorganise before we can get it forward. There is no urgency and, if we don’t get the early goal, the opposition gain confidence and grab a goal from a set piece.

Once they have scored, they sit back even more and crowd us out.

It’s like a movie that we have seen over and over again. The reality is that these games prevent us challenging every season.


23 Jan 2018 11:46:15
Start Arnold maybe but not the extra striker because if we lost, he'd have been accused of complacency by a fickle few - no need for big changes, definitely should have kept Chamberlain on and brought Arnold on though.


23 Jan 2018 12:03:45
MK, I agree that Wiji (who was a ghost all game) should not be playing if we are going to have 70% possession. I also agree that Ox should never have come off either. Maybe Klopp wanted to keep us secure while we keep probing as he has done before several times this season and has worked, I don't know. I get that.

As for the arm band, this is to me a non argument. The arm band for some reason, seems to be a sticking point for this club from heaven knows where. Players play in the end. An arm band is nothing but a piece of cloth and it does not say if you are a leader or not. You may have only one capt. BUT you should have multiple leaders in the team. SG did not win the CL on his own neither did Rafa. He was capt, BUT he had Hypopian, Hamman, Dudek and Carra in that team.

I think this is why Klopp does not respond to such things in the media as to him and many other foreign managers, the arm band is no big deal as some national teams rotate it and others well, don't care as every man and his dog knows no one player or capt. wins a game on his own.

That said, I agree with your points regarding how we played and how poor we were. We have NEVER lost back to back games under Klopp which is a feat its own regarding how many lose their marbles on here and other sites after we lose or draw. He will rectify it as that perf. level should NEVER happen again regardless of result.


23 Jan 2018 12:15:29
If I am not mistaken other than switching Lovren for VVD it was the same team that beat City, I think he was rewarding them for that performance by playing the same again. Lovren has been ill so that change was necessary.

However saying that I agree with what has been said above, Trent would of provided more width and threat in attack and also a better set piece delivery. I actually think we missed Moreno last night too as Robertson still does not look comfortable to me in advanced positions.

I would of started Ings with Firmino due to his work rate and movement, Solanke to come off the bench to provide a different option later in the game.

When we sold Coutinho my concern was not for the big games as we showed last week we can win them without him, but I think we will miss him most when we come up against stubborn defences and we need a bit of magic from midfield.


23 Jan 2018 12:16:43
Yeah i agree with that Kev. I personally would've started Solanke, but i appreciate that is a left field suggestion. Starting Arnold just seemed like common sense. As soon as i saw the team sheet i knew we'd struggle if Swansea played a low block, because Gomez and Robertson can't cross accurately enough and width is important in these games. They're both better defensively than offensively which is not what we needed in this game.


23 Jan 2018 12:17:37
Spot on MK, was the right game to try Gomez as CB with VVD instead of the awful Matip. The world knew they would sit back so why such a defensive team, same players who always struggle against the park the bus team, for God’s sake change it up a bit and give the opposition something different to play against. I think MKS idea of another striker would have caused much more concern, why not try it when we struggle so often against these formations.


23 Jan 2018 12:17:48
I can understand why Klopp was adamant on Sessengon and Mendy! The only way to beat a bus parker is to stretch them using your full backs or try a 40 yard screamer!
Our full backs doesn’t provide any width, which makes our play narrow and very easy to defend against. We also lack any creativity in the middle to unlock such teams.


23 Jan 2018 12:48:33
Had Salah scored that 1v1 volley, instead of kicking it 10 meters high in the air and had Mane not slipped at that 1v1 volley and had Firmino not hit the post, then probably nobody would disagree with Klopp's tactics :)


23 Jan 2018 12:50:55
Sometimes you have drop off and allow such teams to have the ball. Draw them out, have faith in the team defensively to win back the ball, then get them on the counter with our greatest threat: pace.

Last night was more of a tactical error. We clearly do not have creativity in the midfield area, and I said this after the City game when someone posted "Coutinwho", that Coutinho is most effective when we play against teams that park the bus. He is a game changer, and has the ability to create something out of nothing. We no longer have that creativity in midfield. And the so called lesser teams (and United under Mourinho) are going to love playing against us so long as Klopp has no idea how to play against these defensive teams.


23 Jan 2018 13:37:15
Replacing one of the midfield or one full backs might make a small difference but why is no one digging out the front 3? People gave them endless praise and rightly so agains't City, but they were all crap last night.

The formation doesn't work well enough agains't the defensive teams it has been proven too many times now. Firmino runs away from goal but they still have 5 defenders left there is no space. Then he gets the golden chance in the last minute and misses. Our 2 best chances came from VVD crosses, that says it all.

I agree with a lot of other points on Gini, Can etc but you know what you will get from them. It is not there job to breakdown the opposition because they just don't have the ability to do it. I don't think Lallana can do it much better either.

It was a bad bad night but it won't be the last this season and that is the biggest worry.


23 Jan 2018 13:42:32
To me, all Klopp got wrong was Gomez over Trent - Gomez is not good going forward, never had been and in a game where we knew we would experience sod all pressure on our back line, we really could have done with Trent's directness. Aside from that, we just failed to hit the target when opportunities presented itself. To a lesser extent than the Everton match, we did enough to win it yesterday and any other day Salah and Firmino bury their chances and we've walked off with 3 points. Happens.


23 Jan 2018 15:46:15
Interesting reads all. What this site should be about. Open conversation rather than bitching and moaning throughout a post.
I can see what your saying about TAA guys. Unfortunately we don’t see what’s going on in the Melwood training facility and we can only surmise to fitness levels of players.
Personally I think overall, the team that started had enough in it to score on more than one occasion. We just didn’t have our shooting boots on.
The only sad factor with Ings (personally I’m a fan) was he didn’t put the ball in the back of the net. Couple of loose touches (happens to all)
What’s to say TAA is in bad form at training and JG is doing okay. A real tough one to call.
With Can and the armband, I think from a previous post I read that Klopp likes to give the armband to the longest serving player on the pitch?
I am very much Can to be sold. It is a business and if he wants to go. We have to get something for him rather than nothing.
Keep up the convo guys. Appreciate it.


23 Jan 2018 04:42:30
G'day Eds,

Would be interested to know your thoughts on how the direction of football will be going for the next 10 years+? Do you still see Barca, Real, Bayern still dominating spending even more ridiculous amounts trying to stay in power, or is there going to be a massive downfall of some sorts? Purely just an opinion based question.

Thank you,

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - A pan-European league remains very much an on-going issue with regular discussions on the matter between around 16 “elite” European clubs (including three from England) who meet to discuss a variety of issues a two or three of times a year. Without going in to too much detail:
(a) A number of clubs take the opportunity to meet and discuss various issues including changes in rules, club versus country issues, television and other media rights, the power of UEFA, exploitation issues for new technology streams, etc.. The meetings were annually but now they happen two and sometimes three times a year. There was a meeting in December – where there was a discussion about the state of FIFA, the situation with UEFA and a so far unpublished claim from a retired referee that the result of a Champions League game was influenced by a third party. These discussions also always turn to the possibility and structure of a breakaway pan European league. Several are ex-G14 clubs, several are not, and some clubs decline involvement in such discussions.
(b) The plan is that at some point a number of clubs would break away from their national leagues and UEFA. They accept that they would be banned from all existing club competition and the players would initially be banned from all FIFA competitions as well, but know that FIFA would be looking to negotiate in any case. It would be the end of UEFA in all probability and UEFA are very aware of this. It would also result in a restructuring of many of the national leagues.
(c) The clubs would renegotiate their television and media rights, rights of distribution via other streams etc..
(d) It remains the greatest fear of UEFA and all major national authorities that one day this will happen – which has resulted in a counter-proposal being drafted by UEFA.
(e) Timing wise, two very prominent clubs wanted it to happen as soon as possible (2018 was their plan in 2015 – not a chance) and they have the support of a third club - but most are looking at 2021 to 2025 being a good option. A few clubs are looking at 2025 to 2028 and I suspect that could end up as the reality.}

There are two counter-proposals to the pan-European breakaway that have partially been backed by UEFA to try and save their own skin. The first proposal is to rename and change the format of the UEFA Champions League to make it an elite closed-shop pan-European league with a fixed number of teams – and these would be the same teams every year and be based on past winners of the Champions League and European Cup and a few (not specified) more. It would then require the restructuring of the Europa League and the possible introduction of a lower-tier European competition again. Although they have yet to flesh out the detail and there is now a major concern that the impetus for this is not coming from Europe, although one major Football Association has given their support and discussions have also been held with the leading clubs from England (Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal). The American backer, Stephen Ross of the Miami Dolphins, has on several occasions requested a meeting with an extant group of sides considering the pan-European breakaway to discuss his proposals. They have yet to respond but having identified the source of much of the funding (and that raising a concern) will wish to discuss it between themselves first. This has dragged on for a year and nothing has happened. However, UEFA are now considering yet another proposal that would see some places in the CL fixed (probably to previous winners) and then see it supplemented by Champions and second place sides each season. This complicates matters again as it means the re-introduction of a third competition or the significant restructuring of the EL. The plan being put to clubs is a summer/preseason tournament that will evolve in to a parallel league, and of course eventually in to a complete breakaway for these clubs. As a first step to all of this, UEFA have negotiated minor changes that will see the four entrants from England, Germany, Spain and Italy enter the existing Champions League group stages without any qualification beyond their National League position (so no entry to qualifying rounds). This has been agreed by the European Club Association but UEFA did not want to discuss it with the separate group of “elite” sides discussing the Pan European League (and that “elite” group includes three English sides) as they are aware they will get no more than a shrug and no long-term support. The second major counter proposal is a Chinese proposal from the Dalian Wanda Group proposes to open up the lucrative Chinese and Far Eastern media markets by extending the league to include Chinese and South American clubs. This has yet to be discussed by the "elite" sides as a group although the proposals have been presented to a number of them already on an individual basis. The proposals are very broad-based and lack detail - their selling point is significant additional income for the "elite".

If the proposal for a breakaway goes ahead, there is every likelihood that the big money from television, sponsorship etc. would go with a breakaway league. It would completely rupture the operations of UEFA and I would expect it would require national associations like the FA to restructure their leagues. Nobody wants this but it is the eventual consequence I would expect. Initially it could be that there is a single 16 team league with 2 or 3 EPL teams making the initial plunge. If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - but it won't be based on the UEFA rankings; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well - they don't want further issues but the troubles are not going to go away. I could also see many teams lose their professional status. I would think we are probably 10 years away from any significant move at this time.

I hold a reasonably strong view in terms of the need to restructure football in Europe in any case. For me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grassroots sport get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis. For me, clubs should already recognise this and put their efforts in to getting there finances in order to see if they can make it to a British professional league that will need to flourish without perhaps six sides that have gone down the pan-European route - and have gone for good. Clubs like Accrington Stanley will need to carry on as amateurs or face extinction (yet again).

The game has changed significantly and will continue to do so. Football at the highest level is big business and attracts the sponsorship it does because the sponsors wish to tap in to the disposable income of the fans and ride the back of the advertising that flows naturally from the success some clubs achieve. Long gone are the days of the cloth-capped, hobnailed-booted, chimney sweep making his way, rattle in hand, to cheer on his team at Anfield on a Saturday afternoon. I have explained that there will be changes, probably within the next 10 to 12 years, which will force the restructuring of all of the leagues in Europe and likely do away with the likes of UEFA. You will have the opportunity to see the likes of Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus and the other major European sides play in week-on-week regular competition at The Emirates, Stamford Bridge etc.. You will have the opportunity to visit Milan, Barcelona, Monaco, etc. every couple of weeks to watch your team play - if they make the cut. If you want to don your cloth cap, have a pint of wallop with your chums before going off to the local match, perhaps one of the sides from the suburbs will have survived so you can go and watch them?

It was thought that a possible option might have resulted from a potential landmark decision that UEFA were to make in June or July - and that could facilitate the ownership of lower-tier sides by the more senior sides and then work as a feeder club. However – the need to make that decision was avoided.}

23 Jan 2018 10:19:54
What a read ed2. Take a bow. Thanks for that.


23 Jan 2018 10:37:40
The big question is would we make the cut.


23 Jan 2018 10:43:46
If it is the 6 big teams in Britain, that will be Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea, Nottingham Forrest, Aston Villa and Celtic 👀😂.


23 Jan 2018 10:51:27
I don’t think Liverpool are in these meetings.


23 Jan 2018 10:52:02
Possibly the longest reply I've ever seen on this site.


23 Jan 2018 10:24:51
Great read ed. Sad the way the game is going though. I see the sense from a financial point of view and a world wide fan base growing etc.

But hate how everything is always about money when most of them already have more than they need least in the top sides.


23 Jan 2018 10:29:51
Jesus ed, imagine if you did more than "not go into too much detail"
Thank you.


23 Jan 2018 10:51:52
Thank you Ed. Very good read.


23 Jan 2018 11:15:51
Ed mentioned a while ago. if it's the same thing as back then. Correct me if I'm wrong. but im sure ed2 said it didn't involve LFC.

We're not where we are suppose to be in terms of "elite"


{Ed002's Note - No, Liverpool are not part of this.}

23 Jan 2018 12:54:49
We might win the league in 10 years time then when city unt and Chelsea move to Europe 😭.


23 Jan 2018 13:00:06
Because Liverpool don't want to be, or because other people don't want Liverpool to be a part? Because, hell if I know what "an elite club" is, but if Liverpool is not one of the 16 "elite" world clubs, then I would be really curious who is :D Perhaps Fenerbahce and Inter? Lol.


23 Jan 2018 13:36:02
So fans are expected to travel (on both sides, European and British) across the continent every couple of weeks to see their team play? I really really don't like that idea, fans are struggling as it is with exorbitant ticket prices, how on earth is it feasible to exoect to keep the solid core of a fanbase if we have to get flights, trains, accomodation? Its greed pure and simple and its not even a progression in my eyes, but more of a step back where we will lock people financially and geographically. I hope this proposal never goes ahead.


23 Jan 2018 13:45:18
tsteen - in fairness, I can get a ticket from London to Munich for about the same as I can get one from London to Newcastle, and I know which city I'd be happier paying that money to visit!


23 Jan 2018 12:14:50
Ed02 knows his stuff. Bravo, Monsieur/ Madame!


23 Jan 2018 13:02:06
hey ed002 maybe when january window is over, would like to hear your opinion in detail on the claims of that referee. not the actual claim bt your opinion surrounding the issues of the claim.

im not sure if i word myself right. bt i prefer outside of the window as im sure youd be busy this month. maybe even a sharkopod on it? hey can't blame me for trying right? haha.


{Ed002's Note - Sure - remind me in a couple of weeks but you will need to make the question clear.}

23 Jan 2018 13:18:03
Brilliant read Ed.

The interesting part seems to be with all these billions being generated by the game, less and less is being filtered down and more and more is going to the players or super agents, not even the club owners (apart from a select few) have made much as they’re forced to spend so much to compete.

Much like the debate in the broader world around income inequality, can you ever see some form of controls coming in to address the issue and get a more balanced distribution of the revenues in the game to give back to grassroots instead of paying players hundreds of thousands of pounds a week?


{Ed002's Note - For the purposes of FFP there is a strong push to try and level the playing field. The variance in income between clubs and countries is seen as an issue by UEFA and the reason there have been efforts over the past four years or so to agree a sponsorship cap. UEFA are happy for those "elite" European clubs that meet (now twice or three times a year) to come up with a proposal, but so far they have failed to agree a figure. UEFA are aware that taking the matter to the European Club Association will not help them. Eventually they will come up with a cap themselves and that will be it. A similar issue is being discussed about capping TV and media income for FFP. With a UEFA senior official moved on it might be easier to push something through as the resistance was related to the three clubs that would be most impacted by a change include Manchester City and two clubs that play in the French league.

Effectively the cap would say something like, "regardless of the amount of sponsorship a club obtains, only the first €115M will be allowable for the purposes of the FFP calculation". The same could be done with the media income - obviously that would hit the English sides and a few others only. It is contraversial but there is a swell of effort from other sides to make it happen. One side who were leading the push pulled out of the group of "elite" sides earlier this year so it will take others to pick up the ball on that one. But it is fair to say that mainland European sides do not see it as fair that the English sides can benefit from media income and would like a more level playing field.}

23 Jan 2018 09:47:00
Silver lining is that as bad as we were last night, we can still all sit here and say Salah should've scored, Mane should've scored, Firmino should've scored, Ings was unlucky not to score, and Lallana was unlucky not to score.

If we'd had just one stroke of luck, we probably would've kicked on and scored a few. It just wasn't our day i guess. I don't think Klopp or the boys showed their best by any stretch, but if we can play that poorly and still carve out 4 or 5 clear cut chances, then we will still beat most teams who sit deep and try and frustrate us.

I'm sort of calming down about it now I've got my rage out. At least we're still in control of our own destiny. We've got to play Chelsea, Spurs and United still so if we can do them (touch wood), we're in the driving seat.

I still believe, I'm just hurting 😂.

Believable11 Unbelievable2

23 Jan 2018 10:03:42
In order too do them over we should b looking too bring in another attacker too freshen things up, we never going to replace coutihno like for like but all we have done is bring in a defender an sold our main creative force, this is were the club as a whole need too b proactive an not stand still other teams like man utd, prob arsenal maybe spurs an Chelsea have or will make signings we won't though no urgency, I hope I am wrong and wat we have will help us achieve top 4 an a good cup run or win but can't help feeling it's an opportunity to strengthen we are missing.


23 Jan 2018 10:15:43
Totally agree MK for how poor we were you look at game and think we should have scored at least 3 and karius apart from goal he couldn't do anything about and 1 punch from a corner did absolutely nothing for 93mins! Was one those nights every bounce in boxes etc went in there favour our forwards all had off day in front of goal at same time and we'll done Swansea they defended like mad and got the win. We move on.


23 Jan 2018 10:30:08
I generally agree MK although I think that Jordan Ayew gave our midfield and defenders a lesson in hold-up play that was fantastic and a MOM performance. We could of, and perhaps should have at least drew or won the game with the chances we had. it was just one of those nights.


23 Jan 2018 09:37:00
In good news our new £75m CB created both our best chances with balls in to Salah in the first half and Firmino’s header late on.

In bad news I would much prefer if creating chances wasn’t left to our CB and it was one of the further forward players filling this role.

Believable5 Unbelievable0

23 Jan 2018 09:45:38
Van dijk created more chances in one game than Can and Wijnaldum have in half a season.


23 Jan 2018 09:48:20
Van Dijks ball to Salah was Coutinho-esque. Give him the No.10 shirt 😂.


23 Jan 2018 11:07:20
I thought the one he set up for Swansea was the best!


23 Jan 2018 11:19:49
Touche Tot.
But he cleared the first ball. wasn't his fault. The second ball (Ox)?
Should of cleared his header.
we lost every second ball last night.
Where we won every second ball at city.
thats the difference from last night. Swansea wanted it more.


23 Jan 2018 13:37:29
I will never blame a new player esp. the one hailed by some as the be all and end all for CB's. It was an honest and unfortunate mistake on VVD's part and should not be slated for that. I just wish the same benefit of the doubt can be given to the other CB's and players in the very same situation.


23 Jan 2018 09:29:53
We beat the top side and the next week lose to the bottom side. Would we have beaten City if they parked the bus for 90 minutes?

Believable3 Unbelievable1

23 Jan 2018 09:40:30
Who knows? Maybe if we got lucky and defended well.


23 Jan 2018 10:22:39
Don't think City could park the bus. Like ourselves. What's the story with the captains armband? It's like a game of pass the parcel. F@£k knows who's going to captain against West brom. Maybe I'm just making a fuss because of last nights shambles.


23 Jan 2018 10:32:04
The most capped player outside hendo and Milner wear the armband. It's not hard to get. However, it should of bypassed can to the next capped player.


23 Jan 2018 13:43:06
Teams are free to play the way they like so it is a non issue to to say that big teams play to our strengths. They do not play in one way or another to do us a favor as that is laughable. They play the way they play cos they are confident that it is the only way they can win IF they wanna win. It will STILL be up to us to actually PLAY the game w/ commitment, desire, skill and intelligence to get the win. NOTHING is given to you in the arena of sport. You have to earn it.

It was up to us to figure it out last night. We did not even tho, we have won more games vs low block teams than we did last season. All teams have off days so what matters to me is the reaction in the next game. We must do better esp. perf. wise cos like it or not, it all starts from there.


23 Jan 2018 09:21:24
Despite my previous post, I'm not overly fussed about Swansea. I just don't want it to happen again.

It was the kind of goal we do always concede, but as far as our failures to stop the second balls go, it wasn't that bad, it happens to anyone.

Believable1 Unbelievable2

23 Jan 2018 09:27:43
Not too fussed either, OP. You should see how some fans on other sites are losing their marbles like it's armagedon. The loss was bound to happen even tho, we must retain the lessons from this loss. Everything worked for Swansea and NOTHING worked for us. We picked the worst time to have our worst game as a team and that is more disappointing cos the perf. was poor all over the shop.

Remember, that is our first loss in 19 games in all comps. and our first loss in 12 in the PL (9 wins 3 draws) . We have a grwat chance to get into the FA Cup 5th round and a chance to leave Spurs in the dirt momentarily if we beat Hudd and they don't beat Utd. That is where our focus should be now.


23 Jan 2018 09:31:53
The thing is BR that people think losing to Swansea and beating City is more mathematically consequential than the other way around. If we lost to City and beat Swansea then the overall mood would be better.


23 Jan 2018 09:33:22
That wasn’t our worst performance, we were worse against WBA.


23 Jan 2018 09:41:47
True that Ron.


23 Jan 2018 09:42:50
Yes they would Nicky, because City are a great side with world class players and manager whereas Swansea were bottom of the league with a manager recently sacked by a Championship club and no world class players.
Maths doesn’t come into it. We should beat Swansea if we play to our potential.


23 Jan 2018 10:41:22
Considering we onlky lost to spurs and city before last night I'm not too peeved. We were bound to lose to a struggling team eventually. Get it out the system kick up the backside and go again YNWA.


23 Jan 2018 13:48:17
Spot on, Nicky. It's as if people have NO idea how footy works. If some people think football is mathematics then they might as well give up talking about it cos they have lost any debate on the topic before it even begins. To me, us beating City was a bonus cos a point or a loss would have been understandable cos well, they are better than us overall.

Yea, we lost to Swansea and that hurt BUT had we lost to City and beat Swansea, that would have been acceptable. Like I said earlier, the next game and next perf. matters as that is what counts now. We need a good reaction to this loss and if we get a good perf. from the WBA game and win, we are on our way again. It's up to the team to prove if this is a blip or questions need to be asked.


23 Jan 2018 13:52:50
Ron, I respect that you think that WBA was worse than the Swansea perf. I disagree. Vs WBA, we created more chances (tho not clear cut) and could have nicked a goal with Solanke. Vs Swansea, we could have been playing for a week and would not have created nor scored as our approach was SO laborious and disjointed with players being impatient and lacking composure and calmness in the final third, snatching at chnaces at will. Even the Firmino header was out of desperation than anything else.


23 Jan 2018 09:17:42
I think it is time that Liverpool bite the bullet and offer Monaco what they want for Lemar. Or whoever.

When you lose your creative lynchpin in January, it is imperative that you replace him straight away. Of course, finding the right player for a good price is nigh-on-impossible in January, but tough s***, it is what it is. Furthermore, can anybody provide reasonable evidence that Lemar will be cheaper in the Summer? If he's such a good player then chances are he will have a stormer in Russia and his price will then just skyrocket even more because a tonne of clubs with world cup fever will demand him. It happened to Ozil, it happened to James Rodriguez, it even happened to bloody El Hadj Diouf.

I just fear too many games like Swansea if we don't get the replacement we need. Yes, the front 3 could have done a lot better to stretch the play, but then you also need the right midfielder to find that incisive pass, and drag players away from not only the front 3, but also Ox and Can to give them more space to barnstorm.

If we don't sign a replacement 'cuz we are sensible and patient' then my disappointment will be immeasurable.

Believable8 Unbelievable1

23 Jan 2018 09:22:54
What would Lemar have done differently agaianst Swansea? He’s not a Coutinho, he doesn’t dictate the pace of play in a game or score 30 yard screamers. He’s another fast dribbler, like Mane and Salah.
Can't see what he offers to change that game.


23 Jan 2018 09:28:44
I think Lemar is a bit more than just a fast dribbler. He's pretty silky too. And Coutinho didn't really dictate the pace of play.


23 Jan 2018 09:29:28
And I'm not saying it has to be Lemar, it has to be anyone that Klopp's sharp football mind sees fit.


23 Jan 2018 09:30:43
This is not the time for knee jerk reactions, OP and if you allow one result to undo ALL the good work we have done over the past 4 months then have at it BUT I will choose to remain calm and see what happens. If we can get the player we need in Jan, great. If we can't, NO STOP GAPS and NO P**ING AWAY of funds just to satisfy the thirst of irrational fans (not you, my friend) . That will be WAY worse than just losing to Swansea.


23 Jan 2018 09:33:06
Maybe being able to pass the ball to a Liverpool player in the final 3rd Ron, maybe an option off the bench to actually change things, seeing as rubbish as we were only 2 subs were used, but yet sturridge and coutinho will have left without replacement by the end of the month, abs outstanding from lfc agaib.


23 Jan 2018 09:34:56
Wasn’t coutinho a quick dribbler Ron? The problem we had last night is we didn’t have one player in midfield that could get the ball turn and go forward with any pace. It was all too slow.


23 Jan 2018 09:37:49
It's not a kneejerk reaction BR, I've been saying the same thing ever since Coutinho was sold. It is evidently clear from not only this game but also the second half of last season that we struggle against these teams without certain key attacking players, i. e. an effective wide man or a central string-puller.

No one in January would be a stop-gap because unlike centre-backs, there is plenty of great attacking midfield talent going around.


23 Jan 2018 09:39:21
“Silky”? What does this mean? 😆

Secondly, when we were flat, like last night, Coutinho did dictate the pace of play. He’d do it by running at the defence and committing them. He’d either shoot from distance, play a quick one-two and burst into the box, or play a short pass in behind.


23 Jan 2018 09:44:40
Coutinho has much more to his game than being a quick dribbler. I have not seen Lemar play like Coutinho.


23 Jan 2018 09:57:19
We don't need someone with Coutinho's style Ron, we just need someone just as effective.


23 Jan 2018 10:22:47
We need someone with something different, Lemar offers nothing that Mane and Salah don’t offer IMO.


23 Jan 2018 10:36:56
That is nonsense Ron.


23 Jan 2018 11:15:54
No, it’s an opinion Nicky and if you’re going to disagree then you’d be better off justifying it with points 🤝.


23 Jan 2018 12:16:31
Lamar would not have been able to do anything last night. He is not what we need and it would be foolish to spend 90 mil simply out of panic.


23 Jan 2018 12:22:08
We need a playmaker. It could be a CAM or a CM.
But someone who uses his brains more than his body to get past players. We had phil to do that! People expect Lallana to step up and I disagree. He is no better than Woodburn on the ball for me. We need someone like David Silva!


23 Jan 2018 13:06:06
Harry, when we had couts you were still asking for a play maker and often claimed couts wasn’t one. Now he’s gone he was a play maker!?


23 Jan 2018 13:08:33
Well let me re-phrase it for you then Ron - it is a nonsense opinion.

Wait, so like the way in which you have justified your erroneous comparison with absolutely zero points? You're just being an ass now because you're losing a debate.

Lemar knows how to beat men in front of him in the centre of the park and run at the defence. He knows how to play through deft key passes. He knows how to whip in great set pieces and crosses. He knows how to score free kicks. How do any of these attributes still not make him different to Salah or Mane?

Also, why would Klopp try to replace Coutinho with a player just like Salah or Mane? Do you think he's that stupid? Even not only that, ed001, who has a great footy mind, thinks Lemar is very capable of filling Coutinho's boots.

Espouse your opinion all you like but it doesn't exempt you from being called out for talking absolute rubbish.


23 Jan 2018 14:10:21
Nicky, a wideman? You mean like Mane, Salah and even Ox wo have been terrorizing teams nearly all season? The fact of the matter is that Ron is correct. Lemar or whoever would not have made Gini be a ghost all game, made us look and play with such lack of composure and impatience, making bad decisions in the final third. NO ONE. Cou played vs WBA and we were arguably worse than vs Swansea. You and I can moan about signing x or y player BUT the fact of the matter is that we may sign no one if it means signing some guy as a stop gap. You say there are plenty of attacking talent out there YET you don't name a viable one who is available and one Klopp may want. That is my issue with fans and pundits. They say we should sign someone BUT don't say who that could be that will strengthen us. Same old, same old. Let us see what happens first before we judge is what I would advise, IMO.


23 Jan 2018 14:26:35
Losing a debate. Ok Nicky, if it pleases you, you win the debate. I moved on from trying to win debates when I left the playground. You enjoy trying to win debates on the internet with people you don’t know about a game based on subjective opinion. 😂

For the record, I disagree with your assessment on Lemar. However, I don’t watch French football every week. I’ve never seen those qualities you see in him. Time will tell.


24 Jan 2018 06:18:46
Ron, 80% of this website is debating, so you're trying to insult not only me but many others.

Your last paragraph perfectly sums your erroneous comparison up. You don't know what you're talking about because you never watch the kid. How on earth can you properly disagree with me if you never watch the kid play?

So much for you avoiding debates, right?


23 Jan 2018 09:10:54
Absolutely gutted about the result last night. I'll take 1 loss in 18 but it should've been a win all day long. Swansea deserve credit though, I don't care what anybody says they showed up and beat us, they wanted it more, it was never going to be an easy game but with our quality we should be winning these games.

We played terrible, I don't think many people are to blame for the result, it was the whole team who played bad, even Salah didn't have a great game, worst player on the pitch has to be Matip though, how he gets put on is beyond me, we should've played Gomez with VVD in the centre with TAA on.

This is why I hate night time football, they never seem up for it. They didn't seem interested at all, it's almost like all they wanted to do was quickly get the game over so they can go home and watch silent witness. This needs to change.

What I think is the most annoying is how we beat City 4-3 then lose to the team at the bottom of the league. It was like watching a different team last night to way we performed against City.

What's done is done, we move forward, let's give West Brom a slamming, somebody has to pay for last night.

Finally, to the people saying Klopp out, get a grip please! - was a few comments on that live chat thing last night and was shocking, anybody would've thought it was our 18th defeat in a row going on some of them comments.

Believable10 Unbelievable2

23 Jan 2018 09:21:55
Completely agree of playing Arnold right back, and Gomez in the centre. Matip is not good enough.

Shame Salah chose last night to have his worst game for the club, but he's earned one off night!

I don't use the live chat because the first time i did it was just vile. The whole board just gets saturated with knee jerking babies.

I'm enraged by the result, how poorly the midfield in particular played, and how badly Klopp got it wrong. However we have just lost our first game in 19. So anyone wanting Klopp sacked for one game can cry me a river 😂.


23 Jan 2018 09:22:57
Everton have more league points than the combined IQ of the Klopp Out brigade.


23 Jan 2018 09:32:22
Good summary Salah, I think these results tend to spur us on again like the Spurs result. Hopefully got a dud performance out of the system and can go on another unbeaten run.


23 Jan 2018 09:33:15
Agree MK matip has regressed this season, when Klavan is playing better than you that says a lot. Get Gomez in the middle TAA on the right. It was probably our worst performance of the season last night especially in the attacking third. Hopefully it will give the squad the kick up the arse and focus that's needed for the remainder of the season. We're still 4th red men, 2nd is still on!


23 Jan 2018 09:36:36
Salah, us losing to Swansea after beating City can be explained in one word: Football. This is why we watch the game and why we love it. We beat City when very few gave us a chance to get a point. Not only did we beat them, we were the better team (Pep's comment, not mine) so as frustrating as it is, it is not impossible for Swansea to beat us cos well, that can happen. Did you see Hudd beating Utd this season and outplaying the? I did not either. We were poor all over the shop. No point singling out players, IMO cos that is a false errand. EVERYONE WAS POOR.

There was also a lack of composure and calmness in our approach cos before their goal, we started to press things and get all worked up in our build up. That is not how you break down a parked bus. The perf. or lack thereof is what should concern us more than the result cos with a perf. that dreadful and I don't care who you play, you won't even get a point and we did not.


23 Jan 2018 09:38:38
If Henderson put in a performance like our midfield last night he'd be hung from the nearest lamp post, 8 days to prepare and we serve up that. Another great opportunity to put distance between us and spurs just thrown away, our run was going to end sometime, but that was embarrassing,


23 Jan 2018 11:59:44
How is Gomez a good CB? Judging by his decision making and how good he is on the pitch, he wouldn't get a shot at CB yet. I don’t know why people are so obsessed with Gomez? He has shown absolutely nothing so far to play at the back either. He can’t cross, he can't defend.


23 Jan 2018 12:42:19
Baby Driver. because Gomez is British. simple. if he is Spanish or Belgium they want Klopp to sell him ASAP! he is overrated.


23 Jan 2018 14:29:15
Spot on, Port red. And if Lovren or Klavan had headed the ball the way VVD did (not his fault as he was stretching for it), either would have been ripped to shreds with NO benefit of the doubt I just gave VVD. Go figure.


23 Jan 2018 09:08:06
That result was inevitable, i did point out last week that we needed to replace coutinho's creativity in the middle or we would struggle against teams that park the bus. Everyone was on a high after the city game and dismissed it. This will continue unfortunately as out midfield players are very limited.

We also can not do anything about it until maybe after the world cup when players become available. Just have to knuckle down for a bumpy second half of the season.

Believable3 Unbelievable2

23 Jan 2018 09:11:06
Agreed. I said the same but someone got on their high horse about how we should use kids and have enough.


23 Jan 2018 09:16:02
They’ve had enough time to plan for coutinho leaving. There is not a valid excuse given the time they’ve had to not replace coutinho with a decent passer at least.

It could well cost us top 4, which will make keeping salah difficult unless he has a bad second half to the season.


23 Jan 2018 09:18:00
Things that annoyed me last night:
1) No players on the post for a corner 😔
2) Both teams were too predictable but we looked clueless and they looked organised.
3) Klopp’s inability to change the game and pose a different threat to Swansea.

I’ve no problem with Karius, he had little chance with the goal. I’ve no problem with Lallana, he’s coming back from a long-term injury. I don’t care who is captain, it doesn’t give the other players an excuse.


23 Jan 2018 09:24:07
What does it say to the players on long term contracts that Can is captain Ron? That being said there isn’t many candidates for captain at the moment.


23 Jan 2018 09:31:51
Klopp seems to like to rotate the captains armband when Hendo is out. If it was Can every week I agree with you. Migs was captain not long ago now he’s been publically told he’s not a starter for the rest of the season.
I don’t think the players get too hung up about it.


23 Jan 2018 09:41:07
Spot on, Ron. The whole team was poor and this by the way, has NOTHING to do with Cou leaving or him not being replaced. Cou played in the dross games at Spurs, WBA, Burnley we played this season too so that rhetoric or talking point needs to be put to bed. It would not have mattered who played, if the whole team showed a lack of calmness, lucidity and composure in their build up play, we would not have won. The Cou thing needs to stop being used as a talking point cos we get better results w/ o him than w/ him or does that suddenly no longer count?


23 Jan 2018 09:46:08
To be fair Ron I don’t think klopp had too many options to change the game. Our bench was the weakest I’ve seen it in a long time. Solanke is young and a little short of confidence, Ings just coming back after 2 years out, Lallana is still getting fitness back. We still need strengthening on our forward line, I would get rid of Ings and sturridge and bring 1 player in. We also hardly ever seem dangerous at set pieces - we need someone that can put the ball into the right areas consistently as we will struggle in open play against these type of teams. I think if we did that we would create more chances than just having a creative player that could be hounded out of the game.


23 Jan 2018 10:26:49
Swish, why get rid of Origi if you have no options on the bench? Origi offered something different, a physical presence who could hold the ball up, an arial presence and pace in behind. Origi could bully defenders like he did against Dortmund. He could also score screamers from outside the box.
Our squad is too one dimensional.


23 Jan 2018 10:53:29
Ron, agree ther origi was a good option from the bench. I guess with Solanke coming on board he may have been given assurances about being part of the first team squad. Our dithering on sturridge seems to have cost us again. Would love to see origi back.


23 Jan 2018 09:02:19
Just my opinion but id make vvd permanent captain as of now seeing as though Henderson is hardly ever fit, I would not complain at Gomez playing cb with vvd the rest of the season either.
Our midfield needs a massive change, i've always been in the Can might as well leave camp, he's not good enough, turning circle of an arctic and still what is it he does?
Id be going all out for a keeper and a quality midfielder right now and if Wiji thinks turning up to earn your wages is actually a thing then maybe he ought to start putting it into practice.
It has to come at some point, hopefully Klopp will watch the game back and realise a few things, i mean the moon is made out of cheese right?
YNWA.

Believable0 Unbelievable3

23 Jan 2018 10:36:10
Super, a few points. The GK and Gomez were not the issue last night as the whole team was poor. Gomez has also been error prone at RB so he needs to cut out his errors there first b4 he can move into the middle cos it is better for him to make mistakes out wide as the CB's and mid's can cover for him.

Also, No GK will be sold to us in Jan. VVD will not be capt. of LFC until Klopp sees that fit so that is a dead issue as if making VVD capt. would make him somehow grow wings and make his other partners play better as they and he included, were crap last night. Can is inconsistent at worst, IMO so if you want him to go cos he has a great game at City but a poor game here then might as well sack the whole team cos they were good vs City and all poor vs Swans. The only part I agree with you on is the Wiji issue cos he was a ghost all game last night.


23 Jan 2018 08:14:38
A typical Liverpool match for when it doesn't work for us. We never seemed to get out of second gear because we had the game won before we stepped on the pitch. In truth, this is one of the best teams we've had for years player for player and balance but there's something missing. If we had Roy Keane or graham souness captaining that team we would be title contenders. Someone to drag a performance out of the rest of the players. Matip has everything a defender should have but a winning attitude. Gini has sublime skills but coasts constantly. Can you imagine a vocal captain allowing such ability to go to waste. Klopp can scream all he wants at the players but it's quite evident that once they get out on the pitch, they're finding it difficult to raise their game against the smaller opponents. We've reached a point where the players can't seem to do it on their own- more than ever I think we are in dire need of someone on the pitch to tell them they're not doing enough- to demand better. Can I add that although I've struggled to trust Robertson's ability to defend-more than ever I'm hoping I'm wrong about him- forget ability, he has a nice nastiness to him which is sorely missed in many of our players.

Believable3 Unbelievable2

23 Jan 2018 08:23:43
Time to buy a decent player. Risking top four selling Phil and not buying anyone creative. Madness! The team isn't good enough.


23 Jan 2018 08:38:47
Coutinho played in a few similar games to last night. The 0-0 home draw to west brom.


23 Jan 2018 11:05:07
A decent player will not bring a tenth of what Cou brings so you will have to be a bit more elaborate on what you mean by us signing a decent player. As Hugh said, Cou has played in the same dross games this season like vs WBA, Burnley, Newcastle and we did not win those either. The fact of the matter is that saying we can do w/ o Cou after putting 4 past City and saying we lost vs Swansea cos he was not there, cannot be correct at the same time. The answer is somewhere in the middle. Also, we were dross from top to bottom last night, FACT. No captain would have made that team play better cos they seemed to lack any kind of idea, plan, patience and composure. Sorry, but IMO, Roy Keane or Souness can crack as many skulls as they want BUT it won't change a darn thing in a team perf. with that many flaws. We were poor all over and we all need to understand that, learn the lessons, get better as a team and move on instead of constantly pointing the finger at irrelevant parameters in isolation as a cop out for a poor team perf. all round.


23 Jan 2018 11:44:57
Although i think we have the quality to cope without Coutinho, he would've made a difference on the pitch last night. Why? Because he is direct and he can take a set piece. You only need one player to run at the opposition and it opens up space for everyone. None of our players did it. For all Salah's pace running on to the ball and his quick feet at a slow speed in the box, he is shocking t running at a back 4. The ball seems to bounce off his shins as he runs. Mane has a bit more skill and balance at pace, but he is just one player, who will have bad games.

Easiest way to replace Coutinho? Put Arnold on the pitch. Even if it is only at right back, he will still run at teams because he is young and fearless, but most importantly he can swing a cross or a corner in for our two 6ft5 defenders. It is criminal to hit the first man as often as we did last night. That is what cost us ultimately. In a scrappy game you need to make the most if your set pieces. Swansea did. We didn't.

Coutinho would arguably have buried that free kick and put at least 2 good corners in. Arnold probably would've too and that is why he should be the first name on the team sheet now. You can't play modern football without a set piece specialist. Set pieces must contribute to nearly a third of all goals, surely? Anybody know the actual figures for that?


23 Jan 2018 12:23:55
Spot on Adam! Nailed it!


23 Jan 2018 12:30:23
I think the importance of a good captain in the premier league is greatly unappreciated. We haven't had one in two decades.


23 Jan 2018 20:03:27
AOE, it is getting overblown, IMO.


23 Jan 2018 08:04:24
Shame we couldn't get the win or point last night but first defeat in 18, for me Wijnaldum shouldn't be anywhere near a team if we aren't playing a side that will attack us, his only solid trait is his closing down and when playing teams who sit he is the worst player to have on the pitch, last night he was worse than terrible, a little dance as per with the ball and a sideways pass, awful, there was no zip in midfield and it slowed us down, Lallana made a difference straight away with his direct approach, I hope this brings him back into the fold.

Believable6 Unbelievable4

23 Jan 2018 08:41:12
I said last night watching the game that Gini only looks comfortable when he is pressing. Can only looks comfortable in a physical battle.

Ox wasn't playing well but he was trying to make something happen at least, and the decision to take him off before either of Gini or Can was dreadful.


23 Jan 2018 11:28:11
Agree with that MK, Ox was the only 1 of the midfield trying anything, Can was slowing the game down to his pace, which isn't exactly high speed, what gets me though is that Klopp takes until roughly the 68th minute of any game to make a sub, Wijnaldum will never unlock a team, he is a presser and that's it, no different from Henderson, at least Henderson has the inkling to play a 30/ 40 yard pass, Wijnaldum I reckon has never played a pass over 7 yards, he wouldn't get near my team if I knew the opposition were going to sit back.


23 Jan 2018 07:28:21
Well you can't win them all and yes it was a bad defeat but look for the positives.
Virgil directing the defence talking telling the keeper fullback where to be etc
Matip looked decent and gomez except for one lapse looked solid
Ings looked very sharp and on another day might od had a couple of goals
adam Lallana looked better then in recent games
Overall there was more to be happy about then moan and yes we moved the ball around very pedestrian like but we will learn from this and come again.

Believable2 Unbelievable8

23 Jan 2018 08:02:09
Da funk were you watching? Van Dijk did nothing but head the ball right back in the danger are for them to score.

Matip was all over the place and will never be the answer.

Gomez was absolutely terrible, he must have had 5 terrible shots and 10 worse crosses. What on earth are you on about?

Ings could have had a couple of goals? When was that? all i saw was a very weak shot straight at Fabinski. And Adam Lallana looked terrible, kept twisting and turning and didn't know where the ball was and couldn't control it or tap it in from 5 cm!

There was ZERO positives from yesterday. ZERO. The win vs Manchester City is absolutely worthless when you can't win vs Swansea, West Brom, Newcastle, Watford, Burnley, Everton, etc etc etc etc.


23 Jan 2018 08:08:55
That midfield three are awful. It’s been that way all season. Fans need to take there rose tinted glasses off after we win against one of the top teams.

Top teams usually don’t sit in which means 4/ 5 games a season we need a workhorse front three. The other 34/ 33 games we don’t. Can and Wij move the ball way to slowly and have done since they’ve played for the club. They can’t pass forward and if they do it’s a yard too far. Our best defence splitting passes came from VVD and Matip yesterday. Says it all.

Don’t get me started on can being captain too when he hasn’t signed a contract. What does that say to the other players committed with long term contracts?


23 Jan 2018 08:09:39
Matip was diabolical defensively. The only good thing he did all game in that respect was take out their player to stop a quick break, and take a yellow for the team.

What was he actually doing for their goal though? Everyone is ridiculously calling out Van Dijk's header but he couldn't have put it anywhere else as he won it over the top of 4 players. In contrast, Matip who was stood (marking no one) just behind Ox (an attacker) did nothing to react to the second ball, whilst Ox tried desperately to make a block.

Matip is just not a defender. His passing out from the back was good, but why on earth did he keep going forward and getting in way on the attacks. 3 times he did it, twice where he tackled his own player, and another he ballooned a shot miles over.

I agree on Ings and Lallana though. Both unlucky not to score.


23 Jan 2018 08:11:03
Matip was shocking last night. All at sea for the goal and had my heart in my mouth any time the ball went near him, Gomez had a game he’d probably rather forget, not one of our midfielders played well, we lacked any cutting edge and had no guile in the final third. As for the goal, I still think a top class keeper is saving that. You rarely see De Gea or Courtois beaten like that. We have 9 days to fix this or we are stuck with this for the rest of the season.


23 Jan 2018 08:18:51
The win against City isn't worthless, that's just silly. We got 3 points! If we hadnt then Spurs could be ahead of us.

Last nights results was horrible, the worst performance for a long time but let's not get carried away with the daft comments.


23 Jan 2018 08:33:53
Daft comments? Hilarious, i rather lose to Man City and Arsenal and win the other games, i think you will find that gives us 3 times the points.


23 Jan 2018 09:14:24
LEGENDARY, We have lost 3 games in the League this year! City, Spurs and now Swansea!


23 Jan 2018 09:14:33
Legendary I respect your opinion mate but im not all about coming on here and moaning then chanting like a lunatic when we win.
Lose with Grace win with grace
last night one team wanted to win and one team got a lucky break and scored and won, end off.


23 Jan 2018 07:11:57
Only good point was the calmness observed at the defense although we were not attacked so much.

Believable0 Unbelievable7

23 Jan 2018 07:50:58
I must admit that it was very painful to watch. However every top team will have a performance like that, it's just that city, for example, would find a way to not only draw, but win the game.
What's also as frustrating is we had a chance to increase the gap between us and Spurs/ Arsenal and failed to take advantage. Grrrrrrrr.
it was good to see Ings and Lallana getting more minutes. Maybe need to consider woodburn as an alternative to mane while he's struggling. Can and gini are good squad players but there is a lack of flare and pace in the midfield which I'm sure Klopp has in hand.
Let's hope that that performance was just a blip and we'll be back on form for our next game.


23 Jan 2018 12:13:18
A bad day in the office for the boys, poor pass completion, lack of urgency, but the most damning aspect was that no one (not even Firmino/ Ox) had a go at the opposition, all were trying to out pass them. I only remember Mane having a go once through the middle and he won a free kick, imagine if similar runs were made.


23 Jan 2018 05:24:23
Was it directive that everytime we start a new move the ball has to be passed back to VVD?

There so little urgency yesterday. We moved the ball so slow and let them all get back into positions everytime.

I hope this is one off.

Full backs (especially gomez) has no attacking threat what so ever.

Believable12 Unbelievable1

23 Jan 2018 06:12:15
I'd have been more concerned about our midfield having no attacking threat over our full backs last night.

Poor game all around last night.


23 Jan 2018 07:00:15
It was pretty awful to watch.

Klopp obviously wanted to spread out the Swansea defense to make pockets of spaces and that is why it'd go back to VVD to try to bring one or two Swansea players out and towards him, then he'd fire a pass out wide to Robertson to try to draw in another Swansea player to him and so on.

All about trying to make space for the attackers to operate in, as Swansea were so deep and showed a lack of will to attack almost from the start - fair play to them, that's the game after all - try to beat your opponent.

Liverpool were awful from minute one - just proves once again that we need to buy quality and not quantity, especially in midfield for me.


23 Jan 2018 07:13:30
Terrible game from Liverpool, we are still so far off its not funny anymore. Its sickening.


23 Jan 2018 07:56:37
Midfield were woeful absolutely nothing from them attack wise. It is quite obvious in them type of games where teams Park the bus we need the creative player an at this present moment in time we havnt got one. If people think that ox is the answer your in for one hell of a shock.
That was a real bad night at the office, it's happend we move on an hopefully they learn.


23 Jan 2018 08:12:52
We literally have no creative midfielders. I can’t think of one in our squad who has the passing range and skill to unlock these kinds of defences.


23 Jan 2018 05:13:05
I didn't see energy or atttitude as the problem today. More so execution. These konds of games ya simply have to take your chances. Not the swashbuckling kind of game we had agaainst City, so if we miss chances like salah, mane, firmino and lallana did then chances are you're going to lose!

Believable6 Unbelievable1

23 Jan 2018 07:20:18
For me, Lallana was just unlucky to be fair to the guy, he was just a foot or so in the wrong position to finish that off, which is more a luck thing - I myself was full sure the header was in and looked away [very unprofessional on my part I know :) ], when I looked back a second or two later, I couldn't believe the players weren't celebrating a goal and it took a replay for me to see.

If he was just a foot further to his left he'd have just had to finish it off but instead he just didn't have time to re-adjust his feet to tap it in, these small margins make all the difference at times.

Personally thought a lot of players were very poor last night though which was disappointing to say the least, could and should have grabbed a top 4 position by the scruff of the neck with a win last night.

Only bright side for me, Danny Ings looked pretty sharp - really hope he gets a goal soon, maybe a start in the cup is on the cards.


23 Jan 2018 09:52:36
ye fair call re:lallana's chance. still inside the 6 yard, he did well to get a solid first touch under control. great defending to keep us out.


Review Of The Day 23rd January 2018

23 Jan 2018 03:58:59
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 23rd January 2018

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23 Jan 2018 02:06:31
Ed1, what happened, did you forget to plug the lights in? lol :)

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{Ed001's Note - unfortunately they seem to have run out of luck and were packed away within seconds of the game ending.}

23 Jan 2018 00:03:51
Ed001, why is Klopp still being so stubborn? I said to my mate tonight after 10 minutes that Klopp's biggest flaw was his flat out refusal to put a man on each post. Sure enough, that would've stopped the goal we conceded.

My mate then said at half time we needed to get TAA on so we could add some width, as Swansea were playing so narrow.

Did we really need 3 centre backs on the pitch against Swansea? Matip was shocking all game anyway so why not put Gomez in the centre and TAA at right back?

And why take Ox off and not Can or Gini? Both of whom reverted to type tonight and played absolutely shocking. Can has just proven for ne that he only showed up against Man City because he knew the world was watching. The worst captains performance in my life time, by far. No heart, no drive, no vocal leadership. He just strolled through.

Fair play to Swansea. They did exactly what Mourinho does. Knicked a set piece, camped in their own box, and wasted 30 seconds of every minute for the whole second half. Tactically schooled Klopp tonight.

Hope Jurgen learns from this. You don't need Can and Gini against average opposition, and you certainly don't need 3 centre backs when you have a left back who can't direct a cross. The delivery from out wide was shocking all game. Salah was taking corners for some reason and i think they were bad enough to knock £50m off whatever Real Madrid pay, Gomez might has well have aimed at the keeper, Mane barely beat the first man, and Robertson had acres of space all game and put in one good ball in 95 minutes. The only quality cross all game came from Salah, and Mane totally fluffed it.

So disappointed 😣.

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{Ed001's Note - I really do not know why managers no longer put players on posts. By the same token the stupidity of bringing everyone back to defend corners is beyond me too. Just seems to be a trend thing.

Gomez was not playing as a centre back, he was playing as a fullback. The issue was more about how slowly we moved the ball, rather than any formation or player choice.}

23 Jan 2018 04:38:39
Yep, don't know why we need everyone back on a corner. Let's face it, the opposition don't bring everyone forward, so if individuals take responsibility either for their "zone" or for an opposing player, then job should get done. As I got slower in old age, I played CB and used to hate it when my own team mates got in my way on set pieces. When coaching I always tell my defenders to attack the ball like you're an attacker. Don't stand still and wait for it, attack the ball and clear it. It's hard to do that with 5 of your team mates within a few metres of you.


{Ed001's Note - exactly. Sometimes you are better having a bit of space around the players to allow them to get to the ball and give the keeper a chance as well.}

23 Jan 2018 06:51:16
I do think selection was a bit of an issue myself. To break down teams you need either (or preferably all of)
1) width and quality deliveries from out wide to stretch the defence (TAA has proven very effective in this role before, we lacked any real danger from out on the right)
2) preferably someone in midfield that can score goals from outside the box to draw the defence out/ make them panic (ummmm. bit lost on this one after Coutinho has left hence why I think Lemar is a good idea - Gini and Milner are nowhere in the shooting stakes)
3) quick passing and quality movement to disrupt the defensive patterns (Can and Gini a bit guilty here, maybe Lallana would have been the trick)

Easy in hindsight but once they shut down our front 3 we had nothing. Even Ox is best running into space rather than operating in a packed box.


23 Jan 2018 07:43:08
Couldn't really agree more MK.

I actually thought my eyes were deceiving me when Chamberlain was taken off and Wijnaldum remained on.
If it was down to me, Gini would never start away from home - not because he doesn't score, but because he never shows much desire to fight.

Can just proved me wrong on that performance and showed why he's simply not good enough to be a regular starter for us (apologies to all who I debated with last week on this, you look like you were right and I was wrong) and he's certainly not captain material, the only fight I saw from him was at the final whistle with a slight altercation with one of the Swansea players.

Matip just frustrates me, no composure on the ball, not blaming him for the loss last night but for a 6 foot 5 inch man, he needs to seriously man up and take some responsibility, stop moaning at the ref and whining all the time - take some responsibility and lead your team as one of the senior players and physically most imposing in it.

Formation wise, we were all over the place from about the 80th minute, I thought too we went 3 at the back, then I saw Van Dijk playing the Target Man role upfront - it was just very poor all round from practically everyone.

On Karius by the way, only for that goal being disallowed in the first half, he would have again been beaten from a tight angle at his near post - I hope this is not a habit with him, the very basics of goalkeeping is to cover this post no matter what.
I know the shot was powerful, but he didn't even get close - thankfully the whistle was blown.


23 Jan 2018 08:19:05
Even if it wasn't a back 3, we still had 3 centre backs on the pitch. Gomez was dreadful going forward, all night, and Matip was so close to a second yellow. So just take Matip off, put Gomez at centre back, and get TAA down the right to get some more quality from open play, but also to take the damned corners which were hitting the first man all night.

If last night showed my anything, it is that with Coutinho gone, TAA has to play so we have a threat from corners and set pieces. Everyone Salah lined one up i winced.

And Salah needs to take a lions share of the blame for this game because he missed the easiest chance of the game, and tried to shoot on his right foot from a tight angle when there were 3 players waiting for him to square it. He was absolutely terrible excluding his dinked cross to Mane who unfortunately slipped as he hit it.

On Karius, i will give him the benefit of the doubt. It looked like everyone half stopped to me because the whistle had gone.


23 Jan 2018 11:37:06
3 out of the 4 defender were terrible going forward last night as Robbo was also woeful with his final ball.
Only Van Dijk was of any use that way.

Salah looked like he was at the World Cup already and Mane was way off it, he's now a real concern for me - but at least it'll keep Madrid away from sniffing around them a bit perhaps.

Yeah I also wanted TAA on, would have brought him on and put him at RWB if going 3 at the back personally - Matip while poor going forward could have handled Bony with Gomez surely and had Van Dijk almost as a DM.

I really think we need to stop using Wijnaldum away from home, what purpose does he serve if his pressing is not on point?
He doesn't threaten going forward, so may as well stay at home.

I get what you mean with regards to Karius, I really want him to succeed personally (just think of the money it'd save and that could be used to improve elsewhere if he can prove himself with Ward as his backup or getting cup matches) but that near post thing has me worried now - time will tell I guess.


23 Jan 2018 02:33:45
After one loss everyones like Klopp out. shut up and get behind the team.

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{Ed0333's Note - Only idiots will call for Kloppo P45

23 Jan 2018 07:44:22
Haven't seen a single "Klopp out" call, maybe from opposition fans but not real LFC fans.


23 Jan 2018 00:55:50
Cann captain? Vvd in future or matip. Need real leadership in the team especially in midfield, no fight to beat smaller teams. To be fair to klopp he has identified the right players, keita and goretzka. Sadly the latter didn't work out for us, but maybe tonite is the reality check we needed at an important part of the season.

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23 Jan 2018 06:47:01
It doesn’t matter who wears the armband on the night, everyone should be vocal. This obsession with who is captain is petty. We need a team of leaders!


23 Jan 2018 06:48:21
There is Cann in the team I am afraid 😂.


23 Jan 2018 07:50:04
Matip as captain, no thanks, he has no composure whatsoever and actually needs leadership himself - for me, this are two of the essential requirements for the captaincy - players often follow the captain's example and copy them, I would rather not have 11 headless chickens, thanks :)


23 Jan 2018 00:52:36
Oh well reds, poor performance and Swansea seen a game plan out. It's the prem it happens. I know the unbeaten runs over but it was good while it lasted. On to the next one now.

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23 Jan 2018 00:28:07
I would not read too much into that game, as horrible as it was. This is football and it does happen. Streaks do not last forever and our unbeaten run was bound to end; we have found it ending at 18 games. No small feat. We had some chances and did not take them, our goal came from calmatous defending from all corners and i feel is a tactical and coaching related error that lies with klopp.

What i do think is worth noting is that while our front 3 did not take their chances to score, they realistically cannot be improved as they have been fantastic all season. We conceded a silly goal, but our defence was never going to fix itself in 5 minutes.

In games like this you need other players to step up. And to that, i would say to look at the midfield. Ox was not great tonight but he is a work in progress and has been very consistent every time he has played. But who hasn't been consistent this season, or indeed for their entire liverpool career? Oh yes, Can and Wijnaldum.

We needed a bit of magic from midfield tonight, the magic coutinho, gerrard, or even alonso used to bring. It was not there. Our midfield is not up to scratch when the going gets tough. Whether it be a piece of skill, dribbling, a set piece, a hollywood ball, tracking back, speeding up the play, a one two with another player, a run from deep - all were totally absent.

Wijnaldum, when he can be bothered to turn up, is a fantastic player. He can turn games on their head single handedly on his day. He also only does this in maybe 2 of every 15 games. Other players who share this trait spring to mind: Lanzini, Arnautovic, Sigurdsson, Benteke, Shaqiri, Boufal, Doucoure, Diame. And what is the common denominator between all these players? Its that they all play for midtable clubs. They may look very good on the highlight reel, but
cannot make the step up to top clubs, as they cannot meet the demands of consistency, attitude and the ability to perform under intense pressure. Unfortunately, it appears Wijnaldum is one of these players. Can also falls into this category but his head has been turned by a move abroad, which makes his continued selection even more baffling. I don't think you will find any fans of their respective clubs saying that David Silva, De Bruyne or Kante ever go missing in matches. Im obviously not saying it is easy to find such players but that is the standard we must aspire to, and it is not the standard we are anywhere near to. I did recently reply to a post questioning our ambitions this season with this argument. It has been proven tonight. We looked much better when lallana came on (reference for anybody calling for him to be sold) and if henderson was fit, firing and being played correctly, we would look better still. Keita is coming in at some point and this should rectify some of this. But make no mistake about it, we need a coutinho replacement, and a more disciplined player than Can, before next season begins, if these kind of results are to be turned into wins.

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{Ed0333's Note - I was hugely disappointed with Mane again tonight mate. He’s not showed up since the League Derby. He’s had enough time to come good i would give Woodburn a go in that left berth. I’ve said it time and time again our midfield is built on a foundation of sand. It needs a massive overhaul and we need to replace Hendo, Can and Gini. You can’t carry three players in the Premier League especially not a whole midfield. You just can’t beat the top side in the division one week and then lose to the bottom. Again we had two guilt edged chances the Salah and Mane ones and failed to convert. Swansea were magnificent and yes they time wasted but I’m not gonna hold that against them we should have beaten them over 90 minutes. Rant over.

23 Jan 2018 06:33:07
The three of them are too similar all get the ball recycle it don’t move it quickly or incisively enough hopefully Keita can make a big difference next season.


23 Jan 2018 11:43:36
Yesterday proves our midfield needs Keita +1, whether that 1 is, for example, Pulisic, or a more defensive orientated Strootman, for example.

I have faith enough to persevere with Ox in the central 3, and Keita of course, but Can is off, Gini is way to inconsistent and Milner is not a CM. Hendo is exactly the sort we need, but injured too much.

For me, with the addition of another great CM, we look like having a strong first choice 3, with Hendo for experienced depth (hopefully, without having to play 90 mins twice a week he can find some injury respite) and then the likes of Grujic and Ejaria for less experienced depth.

I would also like someone like Fekir or Lemar to a) give more options in the front 3 as well as Woodburn and b) allow us to play a more attacking middle 3 once games allow.

We do need an experienced, pacy CB alongside VVD. Gomez is only 20, so he has plenty of time to develop into that role but just throwing him in as first choice is dangerous both for us and his career. However, with VVD + 1, with Gomez allowing depth as well as (my choice) Klavan, we would look pretty stable. An experienced partner for VVD would mean that either of them could be rested, with Gomez or Klavan coming in.

Finally, we need that GK, imo. Although Karius was not at fault for the goal at all, I really fear about that near post thing. Its such a basic point (I remember being taught that as a primary school goalie when 9!) that it shouldn't have cropped up twice in 2 games. Alisson, on Ed001's recommendation, would be great, with Karius or Ward as reserve, and an experienced 3rd choice like Reina who can then develop a coaching role.

Make it so, Mr Klopp!


23 Jan 2018 03:31:18
The team clearly has motivation issues against the smaller sides as they fail, time and again, to bring that same energy and desire they bring against the bigger teams. Lacklustre display with next to no energy from the team, very disappointing but, the biggest disappointment, is the players still thinking they can cruise in certain games - not enough leaders in the team, not enough hard workers (especially in midfield), much for the team to work on.

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22 Jan 2018 22:57:12
Sorry Ed1 the tree lights need to go ☹️.

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{Ed001's Note - that's the positive part as the tree was in the way...}

 
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