Liverpool Banter Archive January 23 2015

23 Jan 2015 21:18:35
hi eds
if
i asked last month about james milner, I've just read one of your posts and it says we are interested but the wages may be an issue,we get rid of one or 2 high earners like johnson and mario or enrique or if lucas goes would we then be able to afford his wages, james milner would have more impact in games more than johnson and mario, enrique as well, i'm sure I've also seen him milner play at right back he is a BR type of player because he is very versatile, again i would love us to sign for us because if he can make a big impact in games for city especially with all their big stars then he has some thing about him plus he is a grafter with an end product who scores goals, my other question eds is how strong is our interest

thanks for any replies

{Ed002's Note - 31%.}

If the latest story that BR wants to keep GJ for an experienced head in the dressing room is true, would rather it be Milner who can cover RB and CM, both key positions which could do with cover if Lucas leaves. he's versatile and a good defender, solid creator, hard worker, can cross the ball, score goals etc. and I'm sure everyone would respect his experience and professionalism.

I don't know what he's like as a person and a leader though, any views?

I don't think getting rid of overpaid players is reason to overpay someone else. Very good player but he'd likely get a decent signing on fee as well so I personally would be surprised to see it happen - I think he'd be deemed to be too expensive still.

23 Jan 2015 21:26:14
How does everyone think we should line up against Bolton? Biggest question for me is in central midfield. Obviously we need Lucas and Hendo against Chelsea, but I worry that any other combination against Bolton and we will lose momentum. Need for fresh legs will likely override this so in that case, I think we should overload the midfield with Allen/Gerrard/Rossiter and hope Ballotelli can find his shooting boots.

If we want to keep possession, move the ball forward with both pace and reason then leave Allen out.
If want a scrappy game of losing easy possession, being bullied off the ball and short sideways passes of 5yrds maximum, then yes play Allen.

Rather see Gerrard and Rossiter with Can replacing a tiring Stevie around 70mins. Have Lovren take Cans RCB spot unless Lloyd Jones could be given a game.

24 Jan 2015 09:17:17
Omega , Lloyd Jones is playing for Cheltenham at home to Luton on Saturday afternoon along with the other two LFC loanees .

Surly dropping Can after some decent performances and bringing in someone from the youth set up ahead of him would be a knock to his confidence. I understand the need to bring the youth through but surly you don't do it at the expense of another young player who on form deserves his place in the side.

23 Jan 2015 20:35:11
Respect the eds 01 & 02 opinions, would be interested to hear their thoughts on Mario. Does he just not train hard enough? Or is he lazy as made out by the media? Seems I nice guy, but what stops him being a great player?

{Ed001's Note - he is laid back, he just doesn't have that desire and hunger required to make it at the top level. Players like Ronaldo (both of them) have a real hunger, they stay behind on the training pitches and work on their game. Mario would rather be out on the town.}

Original Ronaldo defo had a hunger

He`s wasting the talent which we know he has.

I honestly just don't think he cares for the game much. Kids like Henderson live for it while I think Balotelli would probably be a happier person working at an animal shelter or something.

Not a bad analysis, RDL.

He is not the first, and won't be the last person to not live up to his talents. it takes real drive to get to the next level.

Essou Ekotto at Spurs actually said once he does not like football and is only a professional because of the lifestyle it brings.
Are we saying that Balotelli has the same view?

Jonnybarnes, just my opinion so make of it what you will. I imagine when Henderson was a young kid, he probably slept in Sunderland sheets hugging a ball and woke up in the morning doing keepy-uppies. Balotelli, on the other hand, I see as an excellent natural athlete who played football less because of his own interest in the game and more for cultural or perhaps parental reasons. Without that sort of passion for the game, I just think's it's difficult to reach the highest level he perhaps could have and I think that's why managers get so frustrated with him. The potential is clearly there, but without the desire on his part to unlock it, he'll simply float from club to club in a downward spiral.

23 Jan 2015 20:21:30
I know we do not talk money on the site. But can anyone advise if the club are starting to make up lost ground, regarding commercial revenue? I know we have lagged behind in the recent past.

We'll have a better idea in March when the club post the financials for FY 13-14. Right now the available data is too old to really say for sure.

23 Jan 2015 19:18:13
If Lucas Leiva is close to packing his bags I just want to wish him the best of luck. If anyone deserved a phenomenal contract it's this guy. I'm not privy to what happens behind the corridors of power but this guy oozes class. We the fans and the club have treated him shabbily over the years. Fan's have ridiculed him and manager's not played him when he should have been in the team. Yet he never outwardly grumbled, never chastised the club (cough cough Mr Gerrard) and always gave everything when he was on the pitch. This was epitomized by his flying into the crowd against Villa. If we had a team of 11 Leiva's we would be unstoppable. I hope you don't go Lucas and if you do I hope we get a good fee for you based on your importance to our team. I have a feeling we will undersell tho because we always do.

I just hope he doesn't get his move this window. Selfish i know.

We will miss him when he`s gone.

I love reading this forum but The only time I'm really moved to comment on this page is when a post like this comes up.
My favourite player for a long time now.
Proud to have him here.

If we had a team of 11 Lucases we'd never score lol!

24 Jan 2015 09:46:04
In fact we will playing the ball in perfect square

If he goes in thiswindow then we are nuts.
Bonkers logic.

23 Jan 2015 18:11:36
Hello Eds, more specifically Ed001, I was wondering if I could get an opinion from you on a player.

I've read quite a few articles from Kolo Toure and he always seems such a humble chap. Very dedicated and concerned about the club he's at.

I was just wondering if this is all just publicity or if he actually is like that? I can't say I've seen a more humble footballer in the modern game if he turns out to actually be like that.

{Ed001's Note - he always seems a nice guy, I met him a few times during his Arsenal days and he was always polite and friendly. While at City I bumped into him again and he seemed exactly the same. He just seems to want to play football and is grateful for the life it has given him. He also would happily play in goal if asked, he just wants to be out there and that he is good enough to be first choice.}

23 Jan 2015 19:44:49
Unlike his brother, Ed001?!

{Ed001's Note - totally unlike him!}

Thanks Ed001. I was going to mention that he seems to be the total opposite of his brother, who just likes to whinge at the slightest thing(Bday cake anyone?)

Kolo seems like a very charming an and fun to be around. He seems very grateful for the life he has and the opportunities football has offerred him and his family, as Ed said. I can relate to his mentality as a footballer because as a semi-pro in France, I just wanted to play and it did not matter where I played (even played in goal when I was a kid) and I think Marko has that mentality as well because he plays where he is needed and give 100% everytime. Lovely lads, those two.

23 Jan 2015 18:05:16
Hi ed01 anyone else think sakho would be better suited to the central of the 3 defenders in the current system. He's a better passer then skrtel but sometimes I feel on the left he gets caught with no forward ball on because of his willingness to take the ball in tight areas. Ideally I would play a back 3 of Flanagan sakho and lovren when all full and can getting games in the midfield

{Ed001's Note - no, Sakho has pace and power and is more comfortable when pulled out wide than Skrtel, as he has often played left back. Also central plays to Skrtel's style, with dropping deeper than the other two part of playing central.}

And Skrtel is certainly playing much better Eds last 6 games or so don't you agree? Why owe why didn't we start the season with these tack ticks and formation.

{Ed001's Note - Skrtel is playing to his strengths and it shows. He is not getting caught out making rash tackles because he is now providing the cover most of the time. It suits him playing like this.}

23 Jan 2015 21:01:15
I agree Skrtel seems much more suited to this formation, he seems a bit more vocal than usual too rather than playing on his own. The one slight problem I have with him is he seems to force us to drop deeper and deeper which is okay in some situations but against Villa and Sunderland we were far too deep against pretty toothless opposition. How are his contract talks going Ed001?

{Ed001's Note - to be honest I haven't asked. Last I heard he was keen to sign a new deal, I haven't been told of any problems since, so I would assume it is just a case of ironing out minor issues.}

A coach`s job is to play to the player`s strengths instead of his weaknesses just to suit the coach`s stubborn ego. Finally, BR SEEMS to have grasped this ever-fundamental point of coachin regarding Skrtel.

Agreed, as i said after the last match, sakho and can allows skrtel to play to his strengths.

23 Jan 2015 15:44:25
{Ed001's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Are some teams doomed to fail?

I've not read it yet but from the title I would think Villa and Spurs pages.

23 Jan 2015 13:49:52
hello eds.

sorry eds if this is irrelevant.
what is u r opinion of jay Rodriguez.
Is there any chance of Liverpool bid in near future.

THANKS.

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool haven't shown any interest in him.}

23 Jan 2015 13:25:30
Just reading the BBC Sport article quoting Wenger's views on the transfer system for non-EU nationals. I have to say that I agree with him in that the criteria for signing non-EU nationals is very weighted against British clubs, requiring the player to have played in 75% of games for their national team, and even then only if their national is ranked in the top 70.

Wenger has stated that they tried to buy Di Maria as a 17 year old, but couldn't because of work permit issues. He then went to Portugal and Spain before coming here for close on £60m. Wenger's view is that its unfair that we can only buy these players once they are worth a fortune.

In my view, there should be one rule across all of Europe and that rule should be based solely around numbers of non-EUs in a squad. Its then up to the club as to whether they want to use that quota on much cheaper, younger talent, or on established stars.

By imposing a quota (maybe even flowing down to academies?) then we are not blocking the path for local youngsters to develop, but at the same time, not allowing hidden gems to be unearthed.

I would really appreciate any other views, both from fellow posters and especially from the Eds as to what sort of system would be the right balance between giving our youth a chance and having a level playing field with the rest of Europe.

Let's try to keep this discussion away from phrases like 'Brendaned' and instead focus on the general systems that may work better rather than more digs at BR!

{Ed002's Note - So would you be happy for Liverpool to lose 60% of their revenue to even things up?}

23 Jan 2015 16:08:15
Sorry, Ed002, you've lost me there.

{Ed002's Note - You want an even playing field? No other countries get the television revenue that the English clubs get.}

23 Jan 2015 18:10:49
Ed002, do Barcelona and Real Madrid sell the television rights separately to the rest of La Liga!?

{Ed001's Note - yes they do sell individual rights, hence why they get so much.}

24 Jan 2015 06:44:31
At least the wealth is spread amongst the prem division unlike Spain where barca and RM get the lions share.

Parity of legislation across the region vs tv rights per country presumably based on the popularity of the prem are completely different. If it was a european league then the argument may stand up.

Then again, maybe scrapping transfer fees altogether would be the best way? Short term pain for longer term gain?

24 Jan 2015 06:44:11
Sorry, Ed002 I don't understand how the two are related. Would removal of these rules mean a reduction in tv revenue, would the BPL still not remain the most popular amnd widley televised?

Apologies if I have misunderstood your point.

{Ed002's Note - It is simply another example of not having a level playing field. The original poster said "there should be one rule across all of Europe".}

24 Jan 2015 06:44:31
At least the wealth is spread amongst the prem division unlike Spain where barca and RM get the lions share.

Parity of legislation across the region vs tv rights per country presumably based on the popularity of the prem are completely different. If it was a european league then the argument may stand up.

Then again, maybe scrapping transfer fees altogether would be the best way? Short term pain for longer term gain?

Isn't Wenger only moaning cause he's trying to sign the Villareal defender who's Brazillian? Haven't heard him pipe up before about this.
Don't disagree with him mind

23 Jan 2015 13:08:36
I wanted to reply to something mentioned yesterday with a new thread.

Somebody mentioned that Rodgers is willing to give youth a chance because he has bought younger players.

That is not the same as giving youth a chance in my opinion though.

He is essentially waiting for another teams youth academy to throw up a diamond in the rough, and then buying them for an inflated price (Alberto £7m, Markovic £20m, Can £10m, Ilori £8m, Moreno £12m, Allen £15m, Yesil £2m, Borini £10m etc).

I have no problem with this if Rodgers had a better eye for talent. The fact is though out of those 8 players listed, only 3/4 look likely to make it here. That is a 50% success rate (at best) and roughly £32-42m wasted depending on whether or not Borini steps up with a few more chances.

Now let's looks at giving youth acadmey players a chance under Rodger. Flanagan, Sterling, Kelly, Wisdom and Suso have been handed sustained runs in the team under him. Flanagan took it with both hands and nailed himself into Rodgers plans. Likewise with Sterling. Wisdom was inconsistent but still showed promise and will either come back from loan and make it or be sold for a profit, Kelly was never fit for long enough to perform and was sold for a profit, and Suso despite showing ability probably needed more perseverance as he didn't hit the ground running but still could've been sold for a profit if we hadn't been so stubborn. Basically, 2 out of 5 have taken the chances. This has cost us a grand total of £500k spent to bring in Sterling whilst he was still a youth player at QPR. So a 40% success rate with no money wasted on transfer fees.

My point being, buying ready made younger players will usually have a higher success rate than giving youth acadmey players a chance, but when it goes wrong it costs the club money; money we cannot afford to keep wasting on failed youth.

Giving youth academy players a chance poses no financial risks and if they flop, we'll still get some money for them (Spearing and Kelly were sold for small profits). Ed001 also claims that when an academy prospect breaks into the team it gives everyone at the club a lift and spurs on the senior players to keep their places. It is literally, Win, Win, Win.

So yes, Rodgers is willing to play U23's but he isn't willing to take a risk on relatively unproven academy players when he can burn the owners money signing other clubs star academy prospects. As I said yesterday, the club cannot afford to sustain that. £40m is a hell of a lot of money to lose across 3 seasons when your revenue is only averaging about 6 times that much money.

There is always the risk that young players will fail to step up. However by using our own rather than buying them from other clubs, we eliminate the financial risk and only stand to make a profit! Look at Tottenham selling Naughton, Livermore etc and making small profits on players who failed to make it there. United with Cleverley, Welbeck etc.

When you utilise your academy you will likely have a lower success rate than buying talents in. I accept that. I would put the percentage who fail at about 75-80% to be honest. Those failures cost nothing though and in some cases will even give us a small profit.

We won't make anything on Ilori (CB), Borini (ST), Yesil (ST), Alberto (CAM) and Allen (CM) when they're sold. All will be sold for less than we paid for them when we could've just given Sama (CB), Morgan (ST), Ngoo (ST), Adorjan (CAM) and Coady (CM) more chances and if they had flopped (which they probably would've) we'd have at least had some profit to show for it.

It's the same with loans too. We loaned in Cissokho and loaned out Robinson, loaned in Moses and left Ibe in the reserves. Then this season we loaned in Manquillo and loaned out Wisdom. Why? Just give our own players a chance and then if they fail we still make a small profit rather than lose a loan fee and years wages for nothing.

We should be signing mainly proven players aged 23-27 with the occasional U23 when the scouts spot a gem, and then using our academy to full advantage. Not kicking the acadmey in the teeth by constantly raiding other clubs for their academy graduates.

To conclude, when myself and others say we want Rodgers to use youth more, we don't mean u23's, we mean our actual youth team! It is the only finacially risk free way to bring top players into your team. You can't even say "yeah but the academy costs money to run" because the academy is not a choice, it is a requirement! We have to run an academy by FA rules regardless, so we might as well try and use it to make some stars and make some money.

Buying stars might be a fast track and easy way to fill the squad with young talent, but it is too much of a financial strain for a club like Liverpool with a relatively small revenue. We simply cannot afford to continue buying other clubs top talents. We need to use our own and then the money we make selling those who fall short can be added to the kitty to sign top players with experience.

Nobody on here calling for the academy to be used expects them all to make the grade and break into the team. It is unrealistic to think that. But the fact is, some players will and they will not cost a penny unlike Markovic and Moreno etc. You have to be brave to give academy players a chance, but you have to be foolish to think you will get away with wasting your bosses money year after year.

Rodgers needs to do himself a favour and use his own academy far more often and then maybe he'll uncover some real gems for nothing and save his job.

Have to agree Adam.

This has obviously got your back up. Hence the numerous essays on the matter.

Not time for another name change yet!! 😀 after all the abuse. Have to agree with most of your posts apart from Allen being over average.

Pretty much stated the obvious there, could have been written on two paragraphs tops lol

Just one quick question.

Please name me the title challenging clubs that are doing this?

And please don't say Utd.

Name me the academy players playing for Man City regularly?

Name me the academy players playing for Chelsea regularly?

So, we're stuck with a difficult scenario. One snag is, Rodgers has to win the title, beause after all, he promised the owners the title, but the other snag is, he has to use academy players. You know, those same academy players that no other title challenging team are using.

The debate about academy players is now fast becoming decades old. We can all sing and dance about using academy players. It's nothing new. Since foreign imports into the British game, it's been raised as an issue. The real question is, how can it be changed? And how can the clubs making those changes still compete at the highest level of football?

Jimmy, the problem is for me is that we have players like Enrique sitting on the bench, coming on and not having the right attitude or ability. If we could sell or release these players, we could bring on say smith instead for example, and give him a shot. Look at southampton, Bertrand on loan from chelsea, couldn't play against them, so academy graduate Matt targett starts, does well and has helped the team out since.
We should have a first tea, squad of about 16 players, the rest should be filled out with the better of the youth squad. There will be no better experience than playing for the first team, some players may play better in the first team than the youth team.

23 Jan 2015 15:17:51
Jimmy, I think you have missed Adam's point. The rich list shows that United, Arsenal, City and Chelsea all make more money than us in terms of top line revenue.

Therefore, instead of spending £40m+, as he has indicated, buying the 'best' of the academies in other clubs, why don't we use our own? There may of course be exceptional youngsters on whom it may be worth spending money - Adam points to Moreno and Markovich of recent buys, the latter in particular is coming into his own after a tricky start when he was adapting to the team, league and colleagues - but instead of gambling £5-£10m on players like Alberto, Illori (who I still have hope for!), Borini etc, why not put our academy players on the bench and use them as subs and in appropriate games.

Its a viscous circle as without the exposure how will we, the club and most importantly the players know whether they will be good enough or not?

I do agree that not many players go on from our academy to do better at other clubs - a prime example is Mellor - but the impact on a young players confidence from languishing in the reserves and not getting game time cannot be underestimated.

Of course, it may be that our academy is just not producing good enough players. In which case, something needs to be done about that. I'm not at all itk, but I would speculate that this isn't the case, and that given the right chances, our academy players may do at least well enough to become valuable squad players (without costing multiple millions in transfer fees) and a handful may become first team regulars and/or legends a la Stevie G, Carra, Fowler, Owen etc. Maybe Raheem is on that path, albeit he was brought in from QPR aged 15.

I think this is one of Ed001's biggest beefs and I agree with him that instead of filling our squad and/or bench with £5-£10m players from other teams, I would rather give our academy players a chance. If they're not good enough after a few appearances, then by all means ship them on. But this way we will turn our academy into a valuable resource and future revenue stream, rather than an overhead with the bench filled with squad players who cost so much.

23 Jan 2015 15:53:01
I agree EMS.

Do you guys not think fans have slightly too higher expectations for youth players coming through though?

Anyone remember Lauri Dalla Valle? How about Dani Pacheco? Connor Coady? etc.

At one point these three amongst many others were to believed to be future LFC stars and are now not even playing top flight football.

I understand and appreciate that LFC's policy regarding the development of youth prospects is dire and this has contributed to a lot of wasted academy talent but I just sometimes think fans get all too excited about youth prospects and their potential and the reality is that only a few will succeed.

Thoughts? Ed001?

One question to everyone.

If Rodgers succeeded in getting konoplyenka last January, would sterling be where he is today?

23 Jan 2015 16:05:14
Jimmy and Fency are both right in a way. But this club doesn't go spend £40m on an amazing goalscorer to partner and stand in for Sturridge. (When selling the best striker in world football for neerly 80m)
Instead it gambles on Balotelli, Lambert, Borini, and then realises Sterling is more of a threat so we've got all these useless centre forwards in the squad and somewhere 17 places down the pecking order is probably a decent young striker in the acadamy who's NEVER going to get a chance !

Zeddicus,

Nice post. I do understand Adams post and I understand Ed01's and anyone else's gripe with not using academy players. But I have to look at the reality of the situation. If these academy players were good enough, they would play. That's just common sense. It's chicken an egg in some cases, because without the opportunity, how do you know if they're good enough?

I guess I don't see the fault lying at the managers feet soley because he doesn't play academy players. Problems within the academy need to be addressed by the club. The problem is fundamentally the clubs. It goes way beyond the manager. It's deep rooted. These are strategic club decisions.

Lavers, Zeddicus and Fencey, spot on.

Jimmy, Dortmund, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Arsenal, Athletico Madrid, Benfica, Porto etc all utilise academy players as squad players.

That list is hardly bad company in my opinion.

I don't think it's a case of us expecting too much from them, I think it's a case of us expecting too much from the club. If we just gave the top players in our academy chances we might have a few more coming through and making it at the top level.

Whoever it was who said this got my back up, you're damn right it did. Nothing annoys me more than people just taking the easy route and blaming the academy for not being good enough. Flanagan was literally our 3rd best right back in the academy behind Wisdom and McLaughlin. When Johnson got injured before that Merseyside Derby Flanno broke into the team in, Wisdom was out on loan and McLaughlin was injured so Flanno got the chance. If our third best right back in the academy was good enough, is anybody seriously going to tell me there isn't a few other good players in there? If you genuinely believe our academy is bad then whatever, you're beyond educating and you best go tell Pep Guardiola he doesn't know what he is talking about. It is how the club is integrating academy prospects with the first team that is the problem, not the quality of the academy!

23 Jan 2015 17:08:28
Not to mention the obvious point Jimmy - we don't have the money to spend like City and Chelsea. So for us to buy on a regular basis star players like Fabregas, Matic, Silva etc, we need to save money somewhere else. So rather than having £16m Salah on the bench, we need to have free Ibe etc

EMS
Flanno got into the team before Ryan Mclaughlin was even at the academy. When he came in cus Kelly and Johnson were injued, and had to play in a tough run of fixtures vs city and arsenal, wisdom at that time was 17 and not on loan but in the academy.Flanno had already proven what he was capable of doing in those games.

I'm not sure when you're on about Bob but last season when Flanagan made his first appearance since the Dalglish days, Wisdom was on loan at Derby, Kelly was injured and McLaughlin was at the club for about 2 years but injured.

I think you're perhaps on about the 2010/11 season under Dalglish when Flanno made his debut. He certainly didn't get a decent run of games though. From memory it was less than double figures.

I was talking about last season when he was actually given a proper chance due to Rodgers having his hand forced.

Interesting piece on a West Brom board about Wisdom. I've not seen him play this season, but it doesn't look like he's a RB solution for us.
'Wisdom isn't a footballer. he doesn't even look like one. He's wooden! I think there must be something in the loan contract that says that if he's eligible, then he has to start'

{Ed001's Note - I have watched every game they have played and he has looked good, not world class by any means, but he has looked light years ahead of any right back they have had in recent years that I have seen.}

Jon Flannagan had 7 games, i'd say that's enough to have broken into the team. All perspective though. Can you say some 1 has broken into a team when another player is out injured and the player gets played, egenrique and johnson last year. giving flanno that chance.

for the record I personally rate flanno better than wisdom, and in terms of reading the game and being defensive he's better than mclaughlin for me. I think rating him 3rd of those 3 is a harsh. Swings and round abouts though.

23 Jan 2015 12:14:17
Eds, do you see Sterling potentially developing into a striker full time? His finishing is a bit iffy right now but showing plenty of potential, and with a bit of practise you never know. His movement, either off the shoulder or dropping back to pick up the ball and run at defenders is impressive, better than most strikers out there after only a few games.

I'm also not convinced moving him wide makes the most of him, plus we have plent of cover in the no.10 role, so perhaps the striker option is something we might consider long term?

{Ed002's Note - No.)

23 Jan 2015 10:56:22
Eds, I posted last night re Youth getting a cnahnce and Rossiter in particular, it was shown but now can't see it, why is that?

{Ed002's Note - Likely attracted abuse.}

Can anyone who has seen a lot of the Academy kids and therefore can give an opinion based on what they have seen rather than what they have read give a little insight into who has potential to go on to the first team, in particular Jordan Rossiter.

A few players in 25 years? That's a sickeningly sad indictment of Liverpool's ability to find and develop young attacking players, and in my view, it's a mistake for any teenage striker/attacking midfielder to join LFC's academy.

youngster following three-step process:

* Toil away in the Academy for 2-3 years.
* 4-5 loan spells at lower-league clubs.
* Leave LFC for a pittance and disappear into obscurity.

23 Jan 2015 11:58:19
The problem with academy players in general is that the difference in academy games and the premier league is enormous and as a result a player that seems good at academy level actually isn't. There is only one way to find out and that's give them a run as a sub and bring them on a couple of times - but Rodgers seems scared of taking the risk.

There are 5 players in particular it would be embarssing if they don't make it at Liverpool; Rossiter, Ibe, Ojo, Phillips and L.Jones.

In terms of player who have the potential to be Premier Leaue quality(in my opinion): Ward, McLaughlin, Wisdom, Randall, Ilori, Paez, Smith, Chirivella, Williams, Brannagan, Teixeira, Kent, Wilson, Dunn, Canos and Sinclair. They need to be given the chance to step up though. Not all at once, but using them as cover for injuries woud be a start. It's debateable whether or not they will be the quality we need, but they certainly have excellent potential.

Flanagan and Sterling look to have already made it here.

I always loved Marc Pelosi but I think injuries combined wth younger and better players have ended his chances with us.

So 5 who really should make it here as first team players, and 16 who at least deserve a chance but in my opinion, could flop in senior football. Only way to find out is to give them all some gametime over the next few years and use them as squad players.

23 Jan 2015 12:50:18
One of our biggest failures is that we don't utilise the loan system to full effect. The likes of Tex and Ibe when loaned out should have been pushed on the lower prem sides. Championship is still reasonable quality and more physical, but the prem experience would have been better.

{Ed002's Note - It simply doesn't work that way.}

Red Lenin, yes agree, a few should be given a try but its the same old problem of managers "gambling" putting them, it would be ideal to do it when we are a few goals up and coasting but we haven't had the luxury of that recently and in cup games which could give opportunities Rodgers has probably been terrified to give them a go.
EMS, 16 who you reckon could be Prem quality? and 5 LFC quality, I'd be happy if half that made it, just look at recent feature on Youth team of 2006, most are now scraping around lower leagues. Its a big jump isn't it. EMS, can I ask what are your views based on? do you watch them regularly?, I don't get to see them nearly as much as I would like due to other commitments, even less now LFCTV is subscription.

Well put EMS we need to try them.

18and5, I think those 5 will make it. From the list of 16 I think probably only 4 or 5 of them tops will make it as they're all good players, but not as exceptional as the 5 I listed separately. I think they all have the potential but only a quarter of the 16 are likely to make it if history is anything to go by.

As it currently stands, all 21 will fail though because Rodgers would rather sign players fresh out of other academies.

LFC tv online mate. Subscribe to it.

Arsenal/Wenger had a great tradition of playing his youth/reserves in the league cup and doing well, does anyone know how many of arsenals academy players are still there/successful in the premiership, just curious seeing as most of us want something similar

{Ed001's Note - I think playing them in the cups is a kop out, the way to go is Southampton's way of playing them in the league.}

You can play them in the Cup more BUT you can also play them in the league especially in games where we are ahead and which is a good way to blood them into the wear and tear in the PL. We had the opportunity to do that last season BUT BR blew that chance because as we have seen, he doesn`t believe in them (played Tex in a crucial game vs Fulham and nothing since) and would rather waste money on players from elswhere than give our home-made players a chance. Go figure!

23 Jan 2015 08:52:23
eds talking abou young players have wayched Youri Tielemans or Dennis Praet of anderlecht in recent times ? and what about Parejo great passer and a set piece specialist woud be a nice addition to the team when Stevie G leaves.

{Ed001's Note - not in recent times no. I have not had the time to watch other leagues as I end up watching every Premier League game, it doesn't leave a lot of time to catch up on what is happening elsewhere.}

Praet is injured Tielemans very talented, same goes for klaassen and andersen from Ajax.
Andersen is young danish midfielder very talented.
Malta

Cheers eds sorry for my bad spelling
was in a hurry.

Youri Tielemans would be my ideal long term replacement for Gerrard. It's unlikely that we will attract/afford the likes of Vidal, Pobga etc to replace SG and at the minute I don't see a need to break up the Lucas/Henderson partnership not even to bring in Schneiderlin. Tielemans would still demand a decent fee but more in the Emre Can/ Allen price range which is where we have been looking at.

23 Jan 2015 02:29:35
Alright. Brendan Rodgers plays Glen Johnson when he's fit and couldn't realize the hole in front of the back line needed to plugged for 1.5 years. Nuff said.

I actually think Johnson would do well at RCB in a back three though.

To be fair to Glen, I've seen him make good defensive plays as well as poor ones; Can, however, has out-played him in recent times. It will be interesting to see if Glen gets back into the mix. If Lucas were to leave, I'd imagine Can would fill his role, and Johnson would be the 3rd CB

GJ should never see the field, IMO.

22 Jan 2015 20:21:21
Ed's,

Since I wholeheartedly respect your opinions, could I ask what those opinions are of Suso,

What did you think of him as a player, as a person in terms of attitude, whether you thought he could have made it at Liverpool and whether you think the club should have given him a chance this season?

Thanks,

{Ed001's Note - I really liked him as a player, he was wholehearted in his approach on the pitch. He did have some issues after a while, he was at loggerheads with the club over playing time, broken promises etc. Difficult to hold against him when he was so harshly treated, but it did end up making things more difficult for him with us.

Given the chance, I defo think he could have made it, though he wasn't given the chances so it might have been too late by this season.}

22 Jan 2015 20:09:42
Hi eds, just curious, can Wisdoms loan be recalled mid season? Conceivably if Lucas goes, Wisdom would make a decent RCB, leaving Can to cover Lucas's role in midfield. I strongly prefer Lucas stays, just assuming we can't hold him against his will (if the rumours are right that he really wants to leave asap). I really hope if we do sell, we at least get enough for such a strong and important player, and we don't try make Allen his replacement.

{Ed001's Note - from what I am told, no he won't be recalled.}

22 Jan 2015 23:16:41
I don't post often as many of you will know but I've got a bee in my bonet so here goes! All this Brendan doesn't use the youth system and should go is bs IMO, FSG gave The manager a transfer policy they wanted put in place (btw I'm not a fsg hater) buy young sell for profit (or so we are lead to believe) That is the reason youth players are stunted from breaking through to the first team and btw can anyone name a player that went on to be a fantastic player after not making it through liverpools youth system? I'm not saying Rodgers is blameless what I am saying is the transfer policy is the wrong way round, It should be buy class to teach class!


Seandaleer

23 Jan 2015 02:04:00
Oh so it's the owner's fault, I see.

23 Jan 2015 08:03:07
How could any player make it after leaving our system when our system keeps them stuck at the lower level for so long that by the time they leave for somewhere that cares about their long term future, their development has already been seriously stunted? Sorry mate but this is rubbish and this 'transfer policy' is largely made up - BR has the full right and ability to use the youth squad and has chosen without fail to do just about anything to avoid it - including the repeated use of Cissokho and Moses in the first XI, playing the already under-performing Johnson out of position or 4 CB's on the pitch because we had no fit FB's etc

I think it's the "buy young to sell for profit" sentence that I don't like. It should be "buy 2-3 top class players to fill gaps" and then let them teach the youngsters coming through.

Having said that I think the team looks younger and more talented than I've seen in a very long time, partly due to some of the acquisitions made last summer, there were just too many of them and it's created blockages. Hopefully starts to clear in the summer.

I think Llalana, Can and Markovitc in particular could really shape help our future.

Surely, if the owners are interested in improving players and making a profit when selling them, they would be even happier if our youth team players were played, progressed, and then sold on for big bucks? That way they don't even need to fork out the 5/10/15/20Million on young talent if the plan is simply to make a profit in the future?

I'm sure it's been mentioned a while back that a youth player with even a handful of appearances tends to fetch more money than 1 who has never had a sniff of first team football at his own club.

Blaming the owners is a pathetic excuse of an agument to explain our troubles this year. They are not perfect BUT are trying their best to right the wrongs of those b4 them, taking on debt to expand Anfield and pouring money to keep the club afloat as well as righting their own mistakes too. At least, they are learnin and willing to take advice for advice. Can`t say the same for BR. We all know who wasted their money, neglected our academy, is arrogant and stubborn as well as self-serving, a politician who is an embarassment in the media, can`t fix the defence for crap over 3 yrs, never learns from his blunders and is staring at the sack this summer.

Hint: It`s not the owners.

22 Jan 2015 20:28:20
So. This has been done to death but needs putting into context. Our manager is our manager, not any of the editors or the users of this site. We don't have to agree with the way the club is run and its a certainty that there will always be some disgruntled fans.

Is it right to spend money on players that are no better than those already in our acadamy? No. Clearly our manager doesn't believe they are good enough otherwise it would be illogical. That's his decision and if we win the league great. If we struggle not great either way the managers decision. Point being he has to do what he thinks is right. Not what he reads on here or anywhere else. He is willing to put his arse on the line and right now it is in the balance.

I don't pretend to know the stats, but how many young players "make it" from premiership academies? Where does LFC sit amongst that? How much £ is invested in the academy compared to selling on players that don't make the grade plus the return on investments from those that do? Not to get dragged down by financials that I don't fully appreciate or understand but all that needs to work. If we have invested heavily in the academy then we need to give our investments the opportunity. Equally "dont flog a dead horse" either. Was Suso a dead horse? I don't think so but BR did. Is Ibe or Rossiter? I really hope not. But will our whole academy make the cut? Absolutely not.

Many geniuses were flawed may be BR is of that ilk. In the same way we want him to give our youngsters a chance and make a club a success on and off (financially etc) the pitch, we should give him a chance.

I see a lot of negativity towards BR and many of it is correct. But I will stick by him whilst he is learning his trade, in the same way we stick by the players. Before people pick holes I mean players that give 100% and are still learning. His crazy tactics and transfers haven't always worked but let's just see. I don't know what the future holds but with all due respect no one else does either. It's educated guesses at best.

I think its all to easy to point out these short comings, agree with those who make a strong arguement, can articulate their opinion better or claim to be in the know.

I felt myself slowly jumping on the anti BR band wagon after frequenting this site. But actually I have started to realise that if in isolation would I have the same opinion? Everyone should base there opinions on facts and not the opinions of others that skew judgements.

In all fairness with that said I am on the fence about it all myself. Have been for a while.

Best post I've read in months.