Liverpool Banter Archive September 22 2017

22 Sep 2017 21:35:08
Anyone else feel like we're missing clyne? I don't remember Clyne getting beat so often down his flank as Gomez, TAA and Flanno have been.

{Ed025's Note - i dont think you remember clyne very well faith, hes the worst out of all of them for me mate..

22 Sep 2017 21:43:56
Yes, I'm really missing his uncanny ability to stop attacking moves dead by taking an eon to stop the ball with his foot and pass it two yards to a central midfielder.

22 Sep 2017 21:59:50
He gets a bad rep for me ed25. He is solid defensively. Maybe he got out jumped for a header a couple times and that sticks in the memory. And tbh SR, couldn't care less about his attacking, I think we've all established that our issues lie elsewhere. My view is that some consistency would be nice right about now.

{Ed025's Note - for me faith he is pacey and can play, but he seems to lack a brain mate, gets caught out of position all the time..

22 Sep 2017 22:12:05
FAITH

Couldn't care res less about his attacking lol! Klopp system relies on full backs providing solid width! Full backs overlapping and providing outlets is a mandatory hence we looked at Ricardo pereira / Mendy / Sessengon in the summer! You don't even know our system!

22 Sep 2017 22:49:16
Sorry faith have to agree with Harry. Bit naive to say you couldn't care less about our FB's providing an attacking option when its essential to our system. Also I keep hearing every time that Clyne is good defensively, did you miss he's poor positioning or marking. The only positive I can say defensively is that he's good at one on one defending but he is helped massively there by his pace and strength.

22 Sep 2017 22:56:18
Appreciate what you see ed (and many others mind) . I see him far more stable that other players we've had there incl our LB position and just think he is one of those players, like Lucas was, that has a couple stinkers stain the overall view of him.

22 Sep 2017 23:36:33
I like Clyne. He must train hard to be so fit. Quick, strong, great engine etc. He just lacks basic football ability though. He is very hard to beat in a one on one situation because of his physicality and athleticism. But it is very easy to lose him because he lacks awareness.

Is he an awful player? Probably not. We, myself included, have probably all been guilty of slamming him a bit too harshly. However, he isn't as good as a 20 year old centre back and an 18 year old midfielder. So you have to say he probably needs to take a backwards step in his career if he wants first team football. I think his LFC career is over.

This is ultimately a dedicated right back who should be in his prime, and has now been here over 2 years; totally failing to adapt to the pressure and expectation of a big club. I think all parties should move on. Clyne is still good enough to play for a solid mid table team like West Brom, Stoke or Watford. Just not the required quality for a Champions league club, and he hasn't shown any signs of improving, sadly.

23 Sep 2017 00:21:55
I think he'll play more often than not when fit, he may not cross as well as TAA but he (currently) does everything else better.

{Ed001's Note - he does nothing better, people are guilty of forgetting how truly terrible he is, not that he is likely to be back anytime. He can't pass, cross, shoot, his positioning is terrible defensively, he can't even compete for a header, let alone win one.}

23 Sep 2017 00:37:37
Constructive criticism We Can't Defend?
Or does the weekend have different rules? :)

23 Sep 2017 01:14:21
Don't over-react harry, if that is possible. it's obviously good if he can cross a ball, but that is exactly my point. his ability to defend is tainted by people s over-reactive perception of his inability to cross a ball. Yet we watch Gomez, TAA and flanno beaten again and again and again. Shouldn't include flanno to be fair, he can't attack or defend.

{Ed001's Note - it is not. He was bloody awful defensively because he was never there to defend. He was no better than Glenn Johnson. He was never there to be beaten.}

23 Sep 2017 01:39:42
Agree with Harry and mk here. Yeah a consistently fit (until this season) probably not going to make a glaringly obvious goal conceeding mistake but offers absolutely 0 going forward I lost count of the amount of time he kills an attack by slowing down and playing a nothing ball inside. Not sure if it's lack of confidence beating a man or what as he has the pace but it was the same every game. Fullbacks are crucial to the way Klopp plays imo as they are basically the wide men when we attack. And to have one that doesn't cross or try and take the ball down the line is counter productive. Decent enough player but not for Liverpool at this time. I'd play taa there and Gomez in the centre but that's just my opinion. Taa offers something going forward and has massive potential and Gomez cannot be any worse than what we're seeing and also has potential. Give them a go.

23 Sep 2017 03:17:21
Clyne is terrible. He will only compound to the problems at the back. In 2 years here, he has gone backwards and his offensive contribution is zilch. At least TAA offers something going forward to make up for his defensive mistakes (which is expected of a young player) . The same excuses cannot be made for Clyne, who was just another of Brendan's head scratching signings.

23 Sep 2017 06:04:40
He can't cross the ball Faith! That's his biggest issue! He like most liverpool players can't cross the ball!

23 Sep 2017 07:32:20
Robertson seems like he can cross a ball Harry. There is just nobody there on the end of them. 😉.

23 Sep 2017 07:44:03
He is a bang average player who should be nowhere near the first team - Alexander-Arnold has shown so much more in his very limited time in the first team than Clyne has shown in seasons, I can't believe people are saying we miss Clyne, insane!

23 Sep 2017 12:39:11
Clyne is poor both offensively and defensively. Not missed at all.

22 Sep 2017 19:32:22
Dont get why Harry Wilson hasn't been given a chance yet.

He had an unbelievable season last year, something like 20odd goes and assists. Doesn't seem like he's ever even considered for first team action. What's up!?

22 Sep 2017 19:41:04
*goals

28 goals for the U23s last season!

{Ed025's Note - the step up is massive george, im sure if he was deemed good enough then he would be given the chance, maybe he needs more time mate?..

22 Sep 2017 20:40:29
he's scored a hatrick for the u23s tonight.

22 Sep 2017 21:22:54
Just feel like if a player can contribute that many goals then surely he should get some game time, worried he's going to drift away into the championship.

{Ed025's Note - the coaches see him day in day out george, they will know when and if he is ready mate..

22 Sep 2017 22:47:05
I've decided that I know more than the coaches. I'll be writing a strongly worded letter to someone important!

23 Sep 2017 02:39:38
I remember he was out of whole season two seasons before, and was great when came back last season. May be klopp would take him preseason but he injured again.

23 Sep 2017 07:57:57
Im not saying he isn't good enough, but there are plenty of players who shine in youth football, but can't make it at senior level. Bojan scored more than Messi at youth level, just saying.

22 Sep 2017 12:12:57
HelloEd,01

I would like your opinion on an issue if possible as well as my fellow posters. Recently I've been listening to to the so-called experts and every single one of them agreed that Liverpool Football Club has a problem with leadership. I wonder if leadership is something that can be taught to an individual or if a player is identified at a young age group and is then primed to take over the captaincy I understand that there are many characteristics that determine what a leader should be however I'm sure that the club has sufficient expertise and people to identify these individuals I would also like to discuss what is the best position for the captain personally I feel that the captain should play In Defence because he has a birds eye view of the play and he is at a Vantage Point in that he can determine which players are being targeted and he can see how the game is panning out. Ed I would like to enquire whether you agree that we have a leadership problem in our team and what in your opinion are the steps that we can take to rectify this problem.

{Ed001's Note - leadership can be brought out of a person and taught, but they are very rarely identified now as coaches are looking for players who follow instructions. Leaders do not blindly follow orders.}

22 Sep 2017 17:07:21
When you target nice players this is what can happen. Yes we have a wonderful group of lads but without wanting anyth8ng nasty to happen, we have No One prepared to drop kick there Nan if she was through on goal. Stab her, hobble her. Just put her out of commission.

22 Sep 2017 17:18:59
I bet Carra would be a good person to bring leadership out in people.

Not to necessarily coach, just to inspire the youngsters and teach them to communicate to each other, organise themselves and figure out situations for themselves.

22 Sep 2017 18:30:09
Klopp might not like leaders as he would need a buy in on everything which would be not 100% feasible in the best of Captain - Coach partnerships.

Cheers.

22 Sep 2017 23:15:58
Sorry toonred, but carra has done himself no favours as a pundit. From hero to prize twiglet to me.

23 Sep 2017 12:17:30
Samikewell, how do you know he might not like leaders? Did he reveal thatto you or do you have info to support it? And if that was the case, how did Klopp do at BVB where he had a great relationships with leaders like Kehl (capt. and was there way b4 Klopp got there), Sahin, Hummels, Bazchykowski and Weidenfeller (same with Kehl)?

22 Sep 2017 11:22:22
A video that talks about why henderson should be replaced:

22 Sep 2017 12:12:03
I knew i should've stopped watching when he said Kante can't pass. What a torrid, biased, selective and shocking assessment. Uses all of his best attributes as a stick to beat him with, compares him to the best ball winner in the world as if that makes him poor, and deliberately picks out all of his worst moments, and all the best moments of others to try a force the viewer into agreeing.

Shocking video. Come to expect this from Liverpool fans nowadays though. Use your own eyes for god sake. This video proves nothing other than that a few poor excuses for supporters clearly don't have a job to keep them busy in the week.

22 Sep 2017 12:14:03
Constructive criticism

He is the reason we rely so much on Matip and Lovren to bring the ball out from the back. He has no compute to play the deeper role. Doesn't shield the defense enough not he has any ability to playmaker from the deep.

Cheers.

22 Sep 2017 12:20:17
I recognise that situation about 4 minutes and 11 seconds in and it drives me insane.
He is very self conscious and lacking in confidence big time.
Not a bad player, but in my opinion, he's not quite good enough right now at least.

22 Sep 2017 12:33:30
Looks like a video made by an amateur. Sort of unfair on Hendo but there are some points you can't ignore like bringing the ball out of defense to keep the opposition under constant pressure. Hendo's passing is a bit too safe at times and his sideways movements means Matip tends to charge out of defense to do Hendo's work for him. Someone more suited to the role would make a big difference.
Also disagree about Hendo's technique. He has a very good technique but the awareness one needs to play the DLP role unfortunately Hendo does not have.

22 Sep 2017 12:39:22
Harry that was not constructive from the first 6 minutes i watched before turning off.

All it did was slag off Lucas and Henderson for having apparently misleading stats (because you know, winning the ball back isn't a clear cut fact in this guys head), and show Henderson's worst bits vs some of the best midfielders in Europes best bits.

So what if Hendo can't tackle like Kante, dribble like Weigl, or hit a cross field pass like N'Zonzi. Not many players can. Weigl can't tackle like Kante, N'Zonzi would fall over the ball trying a turn like Weigl does regularly etc.

I could waste a day of my life doing a video with all Henderson's best bits and make him look world class. Truth is actually in between though isn't it mate.

Henderson is a very good player. Captain of club and country. Massively rated by some of the best managers in the game and massively under rated by fans who only see what the camera wants them to. He isn't world class, but he does his job effectively most weeks.

My favourite bit was when it compared the tackles made between Kante and Henderson when Liverpool played Chelsea last season, but then left out the fact that Liverpool won that game 2-1 thanks to an absolute 30 yard screamer from Henderson 😂 biased drivel that video, from start to when i decided it was time for it to finish.

There was nothing constructive about it at all. In fact this video is pretty much all the evidence needed to prove that some fans have a hate/ smear campaign against players they don't like.

And apparently Kante is a poor passer who only plays because he is good defensively 😂 Jesus. How can you take his opinion seriously after that?! Kante is one of the best passers in the league who plays because he is probably the best midfielder in the game right now!

Henderson is not the most skilful, he doesn't have the best first touch, and he doesn't play the best line splitting passes in Europe. Yeah, he probably isn't as good as Kante. But he also is no where near as bad at any of this as this video shows. It's just a biased compilation. If you can't trust this stuff to prove someone is good, then you can't trust it to prove someone is bad. This is actually bordering on bullying in my opinion. Luckily, Hendo won't care about the opinion of some sad act living with his mum.

22 Sep 2017 12:58:57
The nerve you have to post something like that. What an absolute s**t of a video! Proves about as much as any "x players skills/ goals" video where only positives are highlighted. I'm going to side with MK here, use your own eyes for crying out loud.

Why would you even start comparing Henderson to those players mentioned in that video? He's not that kind of midfielder at all, as his attributes lies a whole other place. The thing about Henderson is that he (and Can) is the best we currently have to be playing that deeper role, but currently our whole midfield is way too unorganized to defend properly.

When Henderson is played properly we all know what a good player he can be for us! It's been so visible in the past.

I agree he hasn't hit form yet this season - then again, how many has? Give it time or at least realize that it has nothing to do with the qualities of Henderson, but rather to do with not having a proper player for that position at the moment.

Absolute embarrassment of a post.

22 Sep 2017 13:46:03
Some people have short memories. Remember how good he was when we just fell short of the title? How many on here were saying he would have made the difference if he was playing at the end of that season. He's been hampered badly with injuries. For me a fit Henderson is definitely a starter. His energy and pressing is excellent. The firing squad on here isn't long changing into the brown tongue brigade once the next motm performance or the next worldie goes in.

22 Sep 2017 13:59:44
Too many hendo fans. i think his injuries are holding him back in many respects.
Not the player he was, that injury has set him back. he keeps it too simple for my liking, something joe allen was criticized for. He is not vocal either, too nice a captain. Could do with being utilized further up the pitch but way too many players there and all are better than him.
cant see him much suited to the defensive role and he won't score too many either. i would find it really hard to select him once we have both keita and lallana in the team next season. in fact when lallana is back i think hendo gets the drop.

22 Sep 2017 14:17:54
I haven't watched the video as I do not need too. I already know we need to replace him with someone better in that position. I am not saying he is a bad player but he should definitely not be relied on to protect our back four and dictate play. I actually do think with his energy and leadership with Keita they would make a great partnership in front of a proper defensive midfielder next season. Just my opinion.

22 Sep 2017 14:21:51
Twinkle

It's wrong! Hendo did not loose us the title. No one would have breached the triple decker bus parked by Jose. We lost coz Gerard slipped against Chelsea. Hendeson was a ball winner in that season and we had close to 90% against Chelsea. You clearly don't understand his role in the first place. He is a ball winner and that is exactly what highlighted in the video as he is not capable to play the deeper role! The deeper role requires many critical attributes which Henderson doesn't posses hence Dier plays that role for England and not Hendo!

22 Sep 2017 14:57:51
So when Lampard played centre mid for England, he was a better midfielderthan Gerrard? I am not saying Dier isn't better just that the England example is weak at best.

22 Sep 2017 15:01:50
Thought that video was highly selective in what clips to show, bit of a waste of time, can't say he always passes sideways and show a couple of clips doing that as proof. Lol.

22 Sep 2017 15:17:41
We lost the title against Palace.

22 Sep 2017 15:19:14
After watching that, I agree we are wasting hendo in that deep midfield role. Can should definitely play there instead as he is not afraid to take risks because he has he ability to go past a player and pass under pressure. hendo and winaldum are perfect ball winners and I like that hendo is a very unselfish player much like lallana.

In the season we came 2nd, hendo never played deep, it was always gerrard or joe allen, while they were questioned defensively, they had the ability to create from the back and relieve pressure when on the ball.

next game I would hope to see can holding with hendo and continho in front of him. Ed001 I know youve already said can should play there, but will klopp figure this out? surely he should look at the form we had at the end of last season when hendo was missing.

I feel like klopp just sees hendo as the least creative so just sticks him further back as possible.

22 Sep 2017 15:42:37
When a team is sitting deep it can be very hard to find the space to pass the ball through the defence and have enough room for the attacking player to pick the ball up and turn etc. There are a few things the attacking team can do to create space including inviting the defencive team to venture out and then win the ball and quickly turn it over before their defence can get organised again. Hendo Is a great ball winner who can pass so he is good at this. Another thing you can do is quickly switch the play from side to side, dragging the defence one way and the the other. The ball moves quicker than the man can and as you switch it left and right and left again you create bigger spaces in between the defence. It is these spaces that salah and mane and firmino attack and claim the glory while the guy who kept the ball and switched it, thus creating the space gets called a donkey on his teams banter page.

The boys have been below par for the last four games. It is shocking the way Hendo is being singled out but I guess he would rather deflect any blame on his team mates by taking it on his shoulders coz he is a good captain.

22 Sep 2017 15:56:16
Also,
While you are switching the ball from left to right and back again the opposition defence (almost without thinking) slowly gets drawn out. It takes the ability to be able to hold on to the ball while under pressure and pass it accurately to be able to do this. You have to put your head up and pick a pass while opposition players are snapping at your heals. This is very very hard to do but hdndo makes it look easy.

22 Sep 2017 16:07:36
so you want someone to pass it out the back quickly? . Well lucas did that for years and i doubt you have ever praised him. No wonder he left because of the shite tonne of abuse he got everywhere. he always looked to pass forward. Just because henderson has had a bad few games since returning from like 5 month out and suddenly you forget our 15 game run where we didn't lose one last season and he was the main midfielder in the side. absolute disgrace of a post.

22 Sep 2017 16:40:20
Good point well made nathlfc.

22 Sep 2017 17:24:37
I think that's a brilliant video. Most are just defending their opinion. I have saying that to a fellow Liverpool fan. We need someine better in that position since he came to Liverpool. He only loola good when the team is pressing hard not because of him though.

22 Sep 2017 21:36:55
Whether you guys like the video or not, next season we will have: Henderson, Can, Wijnaldum, Keita, Lallana, and Possibly Coutinho.
Now pick 3 from that lot and see if Henderson can make into your playing 11.

22 Sep 2017 22:41:09
I think it's an idiotic video. You could take clips from any player in the world and make them look either rubbish or brilliant depending on the point you were trying to prove.

22 Sep 2017 22:46:02
Superred

The day hendeson could actually pass like any other excellent CM's like Carrick or Pjanic, I ll change my username to his name 😄😄. He can't pass hence he played as Ball winner while Gerrard played the deeper role and Coutinho played as a playmaker!

22 Sep 2017 22:48:55
Take Can and Couts out and play again.

22 Sep 2017 23:30:50
Someone should post a video that shows Henderson as world class just to even out the argument. One that showcases his passing, dribbling, shooting, positioning, crossing, dead ball etc.

23 Sep 2017 12:12:20
I actually think that is a pretty fair assessment Indian Buzzer.

I think in terms if tackling, recovery, and showing players into less dangerous areas, Henderson is great when fit and on form.

He has also proven he has a sublime passing range and does have the vision to pick out movement ahead of him (though he hasn't looked great in this area this season due to Lallana and Coutinho being absent, often leaving Firmino as the only option for a line splitting pass) . Admittedly his passing quality is greatly finished when he is pressed though.

There is no doubt, Henderson does not have the skill or composure to regularly turn his way out of trouble. He isn't confident enough on the ball to do that. But neither does N'Zonzi. Weigl does, but Weigl is useless defensively hence him needing Bender alongside him most games. In fact i didn't really understand why Weigl or Kante where included in the comparison because they both play positions more similar to Wijnaldum, than Henderson. Better examples would've been Matic, Dier and Fernandinho who you will find can be just as poor on the ball as Henderson at times when put under pressure. They are far more experienced in the role though so it is still far too early to make the conparisons fairly. It just goes to show people are still struggling to understand Hendo's role when they make comparisons like that.

Kante is the best midfielder because he can do everything to an almost world class level. He is the jack of all trades king. Comparing Henderson to him is akin to comparing Mane to Messi. Of course he'll lose, but does that make him bad? No.

Henderson is also very good at shooting and crossing (from open play! ) COMPARED to other defensive midfielders. Not a key trait, but for a team which presses as high as us and demands the holding player be effective in the final third at times, still worth a mention. He is also one of the best at pressing the ball in the game. For a holding player, Henderson creates a lot of chsnces and wins the ball back much higher up than others.

Henderson isn't world class even when he isn't struggling with his heel. I can see an argument for pushing him back into a box to box role and signing a specialist holding player because when pressurised he does tend to take the easy route and go sideways or backwards. In fact that is probably what I'd prefer we do.

This video is just a joke though.

23 Sep 2017 12:15:50
I don't need to watch it cos I have watched Hendo since he signed for LFC. But I bit and watched it. If the maker of the video compared Hendo's ability to win the ball to that of the best ball winner in world football then I really don't need to watch anymore as that just proves that this is nothing but a hit-piece by a fake LFC fan or a true LFC fan who is so bitter about Hendo.

Also, the fact that he said Kante is a poor passer and is only good defensively, takes the biscuit. What a crock of crap! Go watch the Chelsea-Arsenal game and then come back and tell me if Kante is a poor passer. Also, does he even know that Verrati is not the DM at PSG? Thiago Motta is the DM yet he compares Veratti to Hendo in terms of making more defence spitting passes? How many defence splitting passes did Masche make in the 3 seasons he was here? The guy has no clue of what he's talking about and is just trying to wind people up in a divisive way.

Hendo is not perfect and that is fine with me. He does what Klopp requires him to do and he does it well for the most part veen tho, he's struggling at the moment. I propose that people use their eyes cos BUT then, people are free to believe whatever they want.

22 Sep 2017 09:51:40
Bingo claiming "FACTS", then claiming united have spent over £400m in two seasons. No they haven't.

22 Sep 2017 10:12:23
You have spend a lot of money but it doesn't matter as it's yours hard earned money though sheer dominance on the league and Europe over the years. Your sponsorship on shirts alone worth £70 mill per year. Your board utilized your success on the pitch to its maximum to bring in abundance of cash! I have read you posted a record revenue for the year 16/ 17.
You need title to survive as without titles you would loose the grip on all fronts! You also have the highest wage package in England and certainly in top 5 across all leagues. You could afford!

I am no bitter and would never ever compare your spending to ours as you earn 100% more than any other club in England. So you could spend!

People say Money don't buy you titles but then they conveniently compare spendings when things don't go their way!

People!

22 Sep 2017 10:13:34
Who cares in all honesty?!
Most "facts" on here or anywhere for that matter are non-factual.
In fact :) there's a stat that is widely known out there that says 98% of all statements of fact and factual, percentage based statistics are made up on the spot, possibly including this one - that is quite possibly a very important fact for you to take into account Stand-United!

22 Sep 2017 10:17:48
Stand you are in serious denial if you think you've spent less than that mate! Look, it is your own money, so no hard feelings. But you really have spent it if you check the figures! Pogba alone gets you a quarter of the way! It is over £300m alone just on the publicised transfer fees. Never mind agent fees, signing on fees, legal fees etc.

As the mighty Ed002 would say, this is why we don't talk money. I honestly don't know the actual figures any more accurately than you do. But you have definitely spent £400m in the last 2 years!

22 Sep 2017 10:26:08
It's over half a billion in 3 years . It's pretty close to that amount.

22 Sep 2017 10:47:23
Man Utd spent £295m in the last two seasons without agents fees being included. Their agent fees for 2016/ 17 season was £19m. these are the available figures from transferleague. co. uk and the BBC.

22 Sep 2017 11:04:01
I don't think there are signing on fees when there is a transfer fee involved, is there?

I also remember Liverpool having one of the highest payments to Agents (£25 million over 3/ 4 years), so i seriously doubt United forking out £100 million in 2 seasons.

Anyway, Stand United's comment is correct. Bingo doesn't know, neither do you and neither do i, so its not a fact, is it?

22 Sep 2017 11:09:00
2016/17
The amount paid by English clubs to agents has risen by 38% in a year - up from £160m to £220m.

The Premier League paid £174m to agents, up from £130m, with Manchester City being the biggest spenders (£26.3m) ahead of Chelsea (£25.1m) and Manchester United (£19m)

22 Sep 2017 12:52:57
they do have a better chance than us winning the League.

22 Sep 2017 14:01:02
Depends on where you read the figures Reynard.

Who knows what you can believe, but according to Transfermarkt the cost of Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Bailly, Lukaku, Lindelof and Matic is a combined £314.4m.

According the another article from the BBC (the same source as you) Raiola pocketed £43m from the Pogba transfer alone, of which only £23m was reportedly covered in the transfer fee. So there is £20m alone that someone has paid. Maybe it wasn't all covered by United or maybe the BBC have fabricated their figures somewhere. Who knows.

What you cannot ignore is that on top of the £314m, United have also paid a significant signing on fee (spread over his contract) to Ibrahimovic which will have been disregarded as part of his wages by most sources. Wrong, it is a transfer associated cost. On top of this you have to pay agent fees, legal fees, an administration charge for the registration, legal fees, a signing on fee and various other hidden costs such as relocation costs, insurance costs and more. You can bet your house Raiola milked the Lukaku transfer as well!

It could easily exceed £400m when these costs are considered before you even get into the cost of the contracts and bonuses attached.

I didn't see Bingos post, but if he did state any figures as Fact, then the guy has made an honest mistake. The point is United have blown everyone in world football except PSG out of the water with their transfer business in the last 2 years and i am not certain, but pretty confident the combined costs will exceed £400m. Ed002 did a superb post on all the costs involved which will help some to understand how expensive it can get when signing new players. This lack of understanding from the fans is a massive issue for FSG in particular who have been accused of us breaking even or there about in recent years, which is again total rubbish. Maybe the transfer fees, possibly. But definitely not when you include all the additional costs. No idea what to search for to find Ed002's post. Try 'agent fee'.

22 Sep 2017 14:23:53
Why would anyone compare UTD spending to any team in Europe let alone liveroool! They are the wealthiest club in the world surpassing Real and Barcelona by some distance! For every £X mill spend by liverpool on a player UTD cluld double it easily!

22 Sep 2017 15:28:09
Agreed MK. there is no certainty but this is exactly why Ed002 sensibly keeps telling us to stop talking about money as we have no idea. the fact is there are multiple versions of the truth out there, lol.

22 Sep 2017 16:45:26
Clyne gets slated a lot but defencively he is the best RB at the club. Gomes does well there and taa is excellent going forward but I've noticed teams target that RB position atm. I may be the only one but I can't wait for him to recover because we need more experience in our defence.

Afternoon ed01, hope you're well. Any idea when we can expect Clyne back? Cheers mate.

22 Sep 2017 04:42:19
Is Cameron Brannagan being retrained as a holding midfielder?

22 Sep 2017 04:46:16
He is not going to get a chance. If I remember correctly lfc were Keen to sell him this summer.
I always thought he was genuinely good player but powers at Liverpool think otherwise.
He is not a defensive mid though.

22 Sep 2017 06:23:08
If I remember correctly Rossiter (now gone) and Chirivella were the more defensive mids coming through. Is Chirivella rated to make it or is anyone else coming through?

22 Sep 2017 06:36:26
i liked the looks of Jordan william long before he was injured i don't even know if he is still with us and what's happening to him. he looked aa a natural DM.

{Ed001's Note - he went on loan for the first half of the season, he is still trying to get back to form after a long term injury. I had to look up who it was he went to as I had forgotten, but it is Rochdale.}

22 Sep 2017 00:06:10
We don't have the budgets of the Manchester Clubs, Chelsea or even Arsenal (if they ever decided to spend) .

Managers at those first 3 clubs generally do get big budgets to bring in the players they want within 2 Summer transfer windows, they are then expected to deliver success.

We don't have such budgets so imo our manager should be given 3 Summer transfer windows to build his team. When a manager comes into a club the average remaining years on a players contract in the 1st team squad is probably 3 years. So if he has to balance the books somewhat and trade well it will take 3 Summer Transfer windows. The winter transfer windows, whilst having thrown up the odd nugget are not a good time to do business.

So what has Klopp done in his 2 Summer transfer windows to date?
Well in his first one, having given every player in his first team squad a decent run of games to take a look at them he moved out something like 13 players and brought in 6 (I think) . I believe some of those 6 were not his primary targets but they would do to get us into the top 4 and back into the Champions League which would increase his budget.

In the 2nd transfer window I think he changed tactic. He decided he already has a squad to compete for top 4 and now wanted to build a squad to win the league. So he decided who his targets were to make this happen and if the club couldn't deliver all of them right now he would wait until next season to get them rather than accepting a B or C choice who would get long contracts and only continue the cycle of mediocrity for another 3 to 5 years. That is what happened in the past and we all complained about it.

Also, anyone who manages groups of people know, if you set a low bar it will just about be met but not surpassed. That goes for transfer committee's and CEOs as well. In the past when they didn't deliver the 'A' signing but instead got Balotelli they could say the Manager signed off on all signings. This year they couldn't say that. They either succeeded or failed in getting the targetted player in. Hell they even came up with an inventive solution to secure Keita. Don't under estimate how important setting a new bar for success or failure in signings is for the club.

So we need to give the manager some more time. Like it or not we have the purse strings of Spurs but with some of our fans having the ego of City.

22 Sep 2017 04:54:48
We have the budget. we would have spent more than united and arsenal this window if we got both Keita and vvd.
He desperately wanted a defender he should have bought one. I think he missed the trick when he went for AOC instead of a defender. Bar that I agree I would give klopp enough time to bring in defensive reinforcements and then see how we perform.
Right now I don't think klopp can do anything with defensive errors and lapses every game. He can't be blamed for players foolishness. Like all of us he is also sick of it;)

22 Sep 2017 05:51:24
Constructive criticism

Akshit

He is the one responsible for the 4 players still at the club i. e. ( Klavan, Matip, Lovren and Mignolet ) under his regime both the defense and midfield has been utter mediocre.

{Ed001's Note - what is constructive about that? Try again Harry, that was far from constructive.}

22 Sep 2017 06:01:27
I ll change it to destructive criticism / bitter truth / Smell the coffee / hard life / Reality Ed01 😄😄😄.

{Ed001's Note - I would have gone with repetitive whinging personally..... :-P

22 Sep 2017 06:09:28
I know you would definitely go with that! You too are a part of super aliens Ed01 😄.

{Ed001's Note - I just don't see the point in judging this early in the season. The title is not won or lost over 5 games, no matter what the morons in the media may tell you. The team that gets the best start very rarely is the one that goes on to win the league. It is easier to improve on a poor start than it is to maintain good performances.}

22 Sep 2017 06:26:02
Exactly i think Klopp needs to be given time to bring in his defensive reinforcements to judge him.
he is dead under pan with this defense because our defenders continue to make foolish mistakes every game and i can't blame a coach for player mistakes. i think for most of the game we are defensively organised and we do well and out of nowhere somebody gets on the roofies kick in one of defenders and he does something that cannot be explained by people on this planet and with our luck we get punished.
Hard to blame the manager for that, i am just glad he doesn't have sharp objects around him every time he sees that kind of stupidity :P.

22 Sep 2017 06:41:40
Ed001 while I agree, I think what worries some (including myself) is that apart fixing left back and getting in Salah, we still have the same ongoing issues from last season. And for some reason they feel even worse this time - I believe because we had higher expectations to the transfer window and our team improvements in general.

But you're right, a few games of bad form shouldn't define how the whole season pans out. And whilst the issues we currently have is a little bit worrying hopefully a win tomorrow could turn it around a bit as I still believe we could go on to have a very proper season overall.

{Ed001's Note - it is raised expectations that are the problem mate. People expected us to go out and blast every other team away for some reason. It is a lack of realistic expectations, added to an inability to look at things in perspective and without this bizarre sense of entitlement so many people have. For some reason they think they are entitled to expect everything they want now, rather than backing the team as they work to achieve it.}

22 Sep 2017 07:03:06
Oh c'mon Ed01, You sound like bingo now! Raising expectations? Putting things into perspective and be a realist? I want this club to win or try to win title every season! Put me in any group it doesn't matter! We had the money to buy and we did not!

{Ed001's Note - I sound like a sensible person, you sound like an entitled brat expecting everything. I understand that sometimes things are not that easy. This is not FIFA or Football Manager, you can't just throw money at it and suddenly all the problems are fixed. Spurs have taken years to build, they are who we have to compare ourselves to right now. They have many times come away from a transfer window frustrated by a failure to get the right players, but they have gradually built up a team. Why can't we do the same?}

22 Sep 2017 07:10:48
It's a good point Ed001 makes, Chelsea prime example last season and if you remember the latter years of Fergie's teams, they always turned the corner after Christmas.

But, I totally agree with WCD, we make the same mistakes at the back over and over, the same mistakes as last season and the same mistakes under BR.

We talk about waiting to sign a world class CB but can we afford? Not just the transfer fees but the salaries? Will they come to LFC, someone mentioned Cavani on another thread, Ed 001 very quite rightly said alluded - no chance.
A couple of days ago I said we should keep an eye on Toby Alderweireld's contract situation at Spurs - Replies comments included, he won't come to us, bigger clubs out there, couldn't afford him etc etc.

I understand that Klopp plays a certain way and seeks players that fit in with this but when it comes to CB you need

I don't understand why Klopp put all his eggs in one basket with VVD because in other areas targeted he had other options, Salah for instance was not his first choice.

The trouble now is that teams know they have a great chance of scoring against us and this gives them a physiological boost.

I understand that Klopp plays a certain way and seeks players that fit in with this mould but we also need someone at the back that can lead the back four and be solid in the air, attack and head the ball when the opposition cross the ball from corners and set pieces. A basic trait but these are just some of the basic errors that surface every game.

{Ed001's Note - it is simple, there is a surfeit of attacking player but a dearth of good defensive players to choose from. All the top clubs had similar problems recruiting a centre back this summer, there just are so few of real quality clubs were not letting them go. Even a good, rather than top class, defender like Evans was impossible to buy this summer. I mean how many times have Man City been priced out of buying a player they desperately need before?}

22 Sep 2017 07:31:59
We can do the same but we seem incapable of signing defenders or decent ones at least. the area we have been poor in since rafa. Why haven't we added any eds?

{Ed001's Note - I just answered this in the reply above.}

22 Sep 2017 07:46:55
One thing I find notable is that, after two summer windows, there are only three Klopp signings established as first choice; Mane, Salah and Matip. If VVD and Keita had come this summer then it would have been 5 and Roberson may become another but, as it stands, it's just three. I would have thought that's quite uncommon.

22 Sep 2017 07:47:43
Great post, Fitzy. Loved every word of it and you have diagnosed the situation seamlessly. Bravo, sir. On the CB tip, Klopp bought Matip as a stop gap until he finds the one he really wants and that is already causing issues so why should he buy another warm bod/ stop gap again? That is senseless. When that player starts making mistakes then people will be saying he should have just done a Milner at LB and kept the money instead of wasting it on a player he did not want. See how that works? That is hindsight crap that does my head in.

Harry, Ed is right. You always sound like a petulant, self- entitled brat and you're not the only one. You think we should just be steam-rolling teams at a canter and when that SHOCKINGLY, does not happen (when has that really happened), you and some of your ilk get on your soapboxes and start spouting crap about us not being ambitious and Klopp is a failure and blah, blah, blah. I was an amateur footballer and high school athlete. I know that you have to respect the oppo and the game. If you want to win, you have to bring it every time regardless of who compete in every game.

News Flash: We have been mediocre in the PL for over two decades now and have not seen CL footie at Anfield for 4 seasons. Now, you think we should just steamroll teams cos we are LFC? Your self entitlement and pompous attitude is deafening. You guys are part of the problem as there is NO perspective in any of your posts. We are who we are and NOT in City or Utd's league anymore and haven't been for years. They can drop 300m every season on players. We can't. you are aware that Rafa tried that and we almost went bust BUT that's not your problem, is it? Take a leaf out of Fitzy's post, you may learn something.

P/ S: Ed if you are a sensible person and Harry compared my position to yours, then that makes me a sensible person to, right? I'll take the hidden compliment wherever I can get it.

{Ed001's Note - well I wouldn't go that far.....}

22 Sep 2017 07:50:27
Aye, that seems to be the case Ed001 mate.
People quickly forget what mess we were in when Brendan was sacked - and it seems like the Klopp-effect has overtaken most supporters with everyone expecting and craving almost instant success as soon as he was appointed manager for our club and still doing so. I guess the main difference here is to want success and backing the team and to expect success and slating the team.

I've tried my best not to slate the team - still I think it's obvious where improvements are needed and I'm still quite disappointed with the way the transfer window went - not getting a defensive midfielder and also Klopp's tendency to rotate on a daily basis (especially at the back 5) has been a bit worrying for me. So I do think we're allowed to expect better at some points. Just not at every tiny little thing that doesn't seem to suit us supporters the slightest.

Again, a run of bad form shouldn't define anything and as soon as we hit our form (which we will) I'm sure we'll be challenging for the top four spot (which apart from the current form, we pretty much still are)

22 Sep 2017 08:00:20
Ed001, why didn't City go for VVD? Every man and his dog saying he's a good defender and ultimately better than Otamandi.

Do you reckon they were respecting Saints stance saying he's not for sale?

{Ed001's Note - they did but he told them he wanted to join us. Chelsea did but refused to go near the asking price. Saints only told the media he was not for sale, they quoted an asking price prior to the tapping up saga coming to light.}

22 Sep 2017 08:05:57
Well said Fitzy, excellent post mate!
People need to get real and quickly.
Those complaining about the same mistakes being made over and over, look it's a fair complaint but think of it like this please;

You're at work and struggling to do a job, your boss (the fans) come and notice this.
He stands near and watches you closely and starts moaning and groaning every time he sees you do something slightly wrong.
He goes to another manager (the media) within earshot of you and starts moaning to him/ her about you.
Your teammates are also hearing and seeing this.
The next day you come to work, confidence shattered, you see your boss standing near your work area and think "here we go again".
There's just no end to it.
The only way out is to talk to your manager at work and see if you can come to an agreement or arrangement. How can Lovren for example move on if he hears the Kop/ Main Stand or wherever moan and groan every time he makes a small mistake?
Not only is he at fault for some of his errors, so are the fans who get on his back.

I know it's difficult to not moan and groan every time an error happens as you're dying for your club to succeed, I get that.
You've also paid hard earned cash to go to these games only to be left down again (you probably feel that way too) .
That's all fine, but he's not purposefully making these mistakes.
It's partially down to being self aware, more than ever or self conscious if you like.

Bruce Lee, who as you might know was a great Philosopher, Martial Artist, Actor and many other things once said "The consciousness of self is one's greatest enemy/ hindrance".
He's not still remembered 44 years after his death for nothing, I think it's fair to say he knew his stuff from a physicality and mentality point of view for an athlete don't you?!

Novel done :)

22 Sep 2017 08:30:11
Does anyone above could tell me the actual meaning of BRAT! Two people have called me by it and I would love to know what does that mean!

Cheers.

22 Sep 2017 08:42:36
Taking all of that in to account, would you say that makes Bonucci for €40m a great deal for AC Ed?

{Ed001's Note - depends on how he performs for them really but right now it is not looking that great. While he has been a great centre back in the past, there were issues at the end with Juve and they were glad to get rid. He might well be good for Milan anyway, but he would not have suited English football, not at the clubs contesting top 4 places anyway. He needs a team to play deeper to get the best out of him. Bonucci is very much an excellent Italian-style defender who needs to be playing in a team built in that kind of style. Milan play with a more expansive style, from the couple of games I have seen and he has been a little exposed.}

22 Sep 2017 08:53:05
Google it, genius.

22 Sep 2017 09:10:13
Oh I did Bingo, Thanks for the compliment! This is the last thread I would ever call you / involve in any kind of argument. Good luck with your life!

22 Sep 2017 09:12:37
B stands for Brendan.
R stands for Rodgers.
A stands for Almost.
T stands for Turned You :)

22 Sep 2017 09:37:27
A brat is a spoilt/ self absorbed child Harry. Which is why it is hilariously ironic that you've reacted to me and Bingo calling you out, by having a temper tantrum and giving us both the silent treatment 😂

Come on mate, nobody is going to give you any sympathy. You come on here and constantly poke at us Liverpool fans, then throw are strop when we retaliate and put you in your place?

I like you mate. Honestly. So i implore you not to abstain from any discussion/ debate. You do have some "oh dear" moments, but don't we all? I rarely if ever get more agrees than disagrees on my posts, but who cares what people on the internet think? Just take at as a compliment that they even acknowledge you.

22 Sep 2017 09:38:00
At last Ed1 and Fitzy someone talking sense! People think we can just go out and buy whoever we want and the problem is fixed rather than slowly build a squad. Didn't we learn from Rodgers regime that just buying average players that don't fit the system leads to problems rather than solutions? People have such short memories.

22 Sep 2017 09:52:34
Harry, relax buddy, they were both just providing you with some 'constructive criticism'

22 Sep 2017 10:18:36
Ings

Why did we buy Matip, Klavan and Lovren if your intention was to play high line? You do agree none are capable to play high line! Or you want the entire posters to ignore this fact!

Constructive criticism only mate!

22 Sep 2017 13:04:35
Bingo red. most self obsessed post I've seen in a long while. Do me a favour and wind that neck in.

22 Sep 2017 16:34:30
People blaming klopp for not buying a ball winning midfielder, would you take nzonzi now or keita next season? I know which one I would pick but petulant kids are famously inpatient eh.

22 Sep 2017 18:20:18
Ed1 can you not get someone you know at the club. to pass on a list of defenders to klopp lol give them some players to look at. It seems if they are outside southampton area. we rarely look at all.

{Ed001's Note - if only the club did listen.}

23 Sep 2017 12:16:02
Lfcdiamond, what's self-obsessed about it? Care to elaborate?

21 Sep 2017 23:11:27
Play flanno an cb!

22 Sep 2017 08:11:47
There's a place on the wing for him for sure - it's a new position called "the stands" :) Only kidding, I like the lad and his attitude.
I'd love nothing better than if he miraculously found his form again with us.

25 Sep 2017 18:47:05
I rated him highly that year he broke though kev, just thought id throw it out there to try at CB mean correct me if am wrong carra started in cm then rb then moved to cb where he became the player he was i see flashes of carra in flanno sometimes.

{Ed025's Note - they are both very limited footballers jord, but carra had more heart and passion and was very vocal as well, flanno needs to be shipped out imo as its obvious hes just not good enough mate..