Liverpool Banter Archive December 22 2015

22 Dec 2015 20:27:35
Hi Eds

Do you expect Toure to get a look in now with Skrtle being out for 6weeks? Or is Lovren expected back for boxing day? Also do you no how far away Sturridge is?

{Ed002's Note - I would have thought Toure would be a better option than playing Lovren out of position. I would think it unlikely that Sturridge would be risked. There was no update today.}

22 Dec 2015 20:54:22
I hope he just goes with toure rather than can, toure hasn't done too much wrong.

22 Dec 2015 21:17:55
Ok mate cheers for that. Do you think with Skrtels news it might force our hand in January or have no relevence. I no you have said we might look at a couple of diff centre halfs already.

{Ed002's Note - I really have no idea. I have explained the situation.}

23 Dec 2015 06:31:20
Lovren has not done too bad when played at RCB. Time to give Sakho and Lovren an extended run in the team. If they click, then great and we can finally move skrtel on and get a top CB to provide competition.

23 Dec 2015 08:22:24
Could be a blessing in disguise. 3 at the back, Toure, Lovren and Sakho and two wing backs.

23 Dec 2015 09:50:54
3 at the back? Am I forgetting someone? We only have three CBs. Where is the cover? Can? Could Joe Gomez play on cruches, we wouldn't notice looking at the Watford game.

Who in the youth can step up that isn't out on loan? We also seem to be the only 'top six' club that do not have full backs who can move across and cover CB.

While we are thinking about this, can anyone near Anfield pop a pair of studded boots to Sakhos house? Just so he can stay up during the next game. Ta.

22 Dec 2015 16:19:41
Man I can't wait for the summary from ED002 on our transfer targets

Can you add the comments like Unlikely, possible, most likely as you did with the chelsea one.
That thing was gold and an awesome read.

Now for a not so awesome read but I'm going for it anyway.
Davey's stab:

Grujic. He wept like a baby when Klopp made the call. He had his heart set on Inter but came round to the idea of Liverpool when klopp slapped him right in the face over the phone. In that one move that defied physics, Grujic realised Liverpool was the place for him.

Matip: Scouts were sent to look at the mesmerizing Sane, and we've somehow ended up with a deal for Matip. This is a howler to exceed that of the Carl Cort/Jason Euell fiasco. Klopp will make it work though and will convert Matip to a silky winger he always wanted.

Embolo: Young, Powerful, Athletic but very very very raw. Not ready but has the price tag that says he is ready, willing and able to be the next luis suarez.

Andraz Sporar: I like the youtube clips. If klopp likes youtube then he'll like the youtube clips too I'm sure. My worries about his ability to adapt to the physicality of the premier league were laid to rest when after a stunning volley he whipped his shirt off exposing his bulging muscles. Yeah, he's ready. Real Ready. And Cheap.

Milik: Lewandowski is Polish. Milik is Polish. Klopp has signed Polish players before.

El Ghazi: Scouts are watching him. Analyzing. Even outside footballing hours. Every time he files another restraining order, we send another scout.

Sane: We've realised the Matip mixup and are quite embarrassed. We don't want to own up to the mix up so we are planning to turn this thing into double deal. Due to the mix up and the fact that double deals are awesome. They have a buddy on the first day.

Volland: Firmino said he's not playing well until Volland is bought.

Lucas Moura: Klopp saw a Brazil Friendly game once a thought "I wonder how many of them I could have in a single club side"

Begovic: He's Bosnian. Buvac is Bosnian. Klopp is German but that doesn't matter all that much in this case. We need a keeper and he's not too bad like klopp would say.

Timo Horn: He's young. he's German. We're interested.

Leno: He's young. He's German. oh I said that already. We need a keeper dammit!

Mustafi: Ed001 said he liked him. If he likes him, why would Klopp not.

Hoffman: Got sent off 2 mintues into his debut. He's got fire in the belly. We got to get this leg breaker in before Pulis snaps him up.

The entire dortmund squad including anyone that was ever affiliated with the club during klopp's reign. This includes anyone that Klopp said hello to when he was there. If you have ever worn black and yellow. We're interested. Reus. Interested. Subotic. Intersted. Deeney. very interested.

22 Dec 2015 17:20:08
Nice one Davey, got a chuckle outta that.
Proper bants!

22 Dec 2015 18:04:23
Very funny. Enjoyed that.

22 Dec 2015 18:06:14
Funny, well done.

22 Dec 2015 18:12:15
That was hilarious Davey.
He's young, he's German. We are interested. LOL.

22 Dec 2015 20:36:28
Priceless Davey.

22 Dec 2015 22:46:47
This is brilliant!

22 Dec 2015 23:00:50
Brilliant! Much approved!

22 Dec 2015 23:53:38
Awesome one, Davey.

23 Dec 2015 04:36:21
Man that really made me El O El. Good one mate " Milik: Lewandowski is Polish. Milik is Polish. Klopp has signed Polish players before. " hahaha.

23 Dec 2015 08:23:21
Haha, awesome!

22 Dec 2015 11:22:14
Ed is there no way we can pay a small fee too recall ilori or wisdom?

{Ed002's Note - Ilori is on a loan to buy deal - without seeing his contract I don't know if Aston Villa cancelled it whether that would suffice. I know that there are some Liverpool fdans who see this player who has played a handful of games in lower tier leagues over the last year and none for Liverpool or Aston Villa is seen as the Messiah - I have no idea why. Again, Wisdom is on a season long loan, this time with no break point.

Is there a reason you crave these discarded or not seen as ready players?}

22 Dec 2015 15:53:51
I believe most fans on here would go by Ed001 saying previously that he has talent and possibly a improvement on what we have.

{Ed002's Note - So the club should make the effort to do something with a player they already own rather than spend their time looking for someone else?}

22 Dec 2015 18:10:26
My point was could we not recall them if no one is available in jan too bring in straight away. In no way do i see them as the messiahs.

{Ed002's Note - No, they cannot simply be recalled.}

22 Dec 2015 18:15:30
Sorry don't understand all the hype over Ilori.

22 Dec 2015 23:58:18
No hype. We just want him to be given a go to see what he has. How hard is that to understand?

23 Dec 2015 02:24:14
I don't understand what is meant by 'given a go'. Just sticking someone in the first team and watching what happens isn't classed as giving someone a go is it?

23 Dec 2015 05:39:49
Ilori was never given any game time. Our defence and bumbled and stumbled along for seasons (and is still doing so) - the lad could not be any worse - he should have been kept and tried. Given a go = given a fair crack in the first team with the aim of, should he perform well, cementing a starting berth. If you never put a player in the team how will you ever know if he can make the grade or not? He may or may not be a success - the point is it is impossible to assess him if he is never played. We spent a few million on him and never gave him a chance - what is the point?

{Ed002's Note - I think his history over the past two years (can't make the poor Aston Villa side etc.) does little more than justify that he was simply a bad buy (one of many) by the club.}

23 Dec 2015 07:27:34
I agree Ed. I find it incredible that the club bought the lad and never even played him, it's bizarre and, as you rightly say, one of many bad pieces of business by the club in the transfer market.

{Ed002's Note - I think the £22M spent on Ilori, Aspas and Alberto in that window could have gone to better use. I said that at the time but of course got shouted down.}

22 Dec 2015 11:15:20
Ah, the joys of supporting Liverpool. Once again we failed to capitalise on teams above us slipping up. When Klopp took over, I was that happy to see this season out with no real optimism, a top 4 place being a bonus. While that is still the case, watching Liverpool lose like they did still ruins my whole weekend, if only we had won our last two games we'd be above the Mancs! But, I guess those are the joys of football, enjoying the successes as much as ruing the missed opportunities. It's just good to have a site like this one where we can all come and let off the steam and think we know better than these so-called managers who have only been doing it most of their lives! So cheers to the Ed's for putting up with us all, especially a certain few, and hopefully the new year brings lots more banter and hopefully, some success for the Reds!

22 Dec 2015 12:53:11
The worst thing is for 3 weeks teams have slipped up, we could of picked up 9pts, we ended up picking up 1pt. In a way it is good that this season was kind of written off with Rodgers in charge so anything Klopp does this year won't mean allot. It is good for the team and Klopp to learn his methods and for Klopp to learn the league.

2 transfer windows and half a season and we will surely see a big difference next year. To be honest I think a big part of the problem is not the manager its the fact that the players we have simply are not good enough. Our midfield is seriously lacking in quality, which is strange as the manager that has just been sacked like to play through the midfield.

22 Dec 2015 13:49:49
I have not written off this season like many have. I agree that it is frustrating to not capitalize on the other teams slipping up but it was always going to be a rollercoaster season with Klopp now in charge w/o a true pre-season and time in-season to evaluate the players and bring his own. There are still TWENTY ONE games left with us being in contention for another three competitions so don`t lose hope yet because I have not.

Klopp knows what he is doing and the losses are due mainly to individual mistakes (same players are still committing them) and lack of effort from certain and lack of a set team and system which you CANNOT get in-season. keep the faith and don`t listen to cynics on here and in the media trying to mess with us. Other struggling clubs wish they had Klopp BUT he's ours and we should trust him. he's accoplished more in 3 months than BR did in the last 18.

22 Dec 2015 14:43:03
There are games that allow football and some where the opposition is in your face. Jk will get to grips with who can do what but the front three were not the type for a Watford game.

22 Dec 2015 10:46:11
Days after Liverpool loss to Watford :

D-Day : Disbelief at the utter tripe that our players are serving up. Deeney says after the match " Liverpool players didn't fancy a fight" and he is absolutely right. Hoping Klopp tore them a new one.

Day 1 : Go online. Doom and gloom everywhere. Reading the banter site will make you near suicidal. Join in and bash players and performances.

Day 2 : Still pissed off. Heard our team lineups have been leaked by the "Melwood Mole" and that transfer for Marko Grujic is almost done but he will only join in summer. don't know what to make of either piece of news.

Day 3 and 4 : normal life intervenes.

Day 5 : Feeling strange sense of optimism. Surely can't lose at home after the debacle at Watford. Plus it is going to be an open game against Leicester, so plenty of space for creative players to work something.

Match Day: Extreme optimism : Bring on Leicester, Sunderland and West Ham. I am predicting 3 wins from 3.

22 Dec 2015 11:17:24
Wish i could agree twice lol.

22 Dec 2015 11:22:40
So true!

22 Dec 2015 11:25:02
Similar story here. I will always be wildly optimistic for match days. Could not believe the Watford game and still struggle. Could not believe the "one up front" persistence despite poor results/performances.

Now I'm over it. This season will be one of a fact finding for Kloppo. He needs to work out his best strategies and when to implement them. He needs to work out which players will make it and which won't. It may take a whole season so I'm prepared for more dross in terms of performances and more baffling selections and tactics.

My biggest hope is we win something and secondly that we win the Europa as Kloppo has experience in European competitions. The only thing that tops the Europa this season is winning the Premier League.

In the summer I hope he is strategically ruthless and fiscally responsible. We don't need so many squad fillers, we need to give younger players the chance to fill gaps due to injury/suspension. Quality replaces quantity.

Grujic has some high profile suitors so he must have something about him. Not sure where it leaves the likes of Rossiter and Chirivella.

22 Dec 2015 13:54:50
Spot on, lads. The players just folded like little girls when the watford players stepped on their toes. Deeney didn`t have to say we weren`t up for a fight. We could all see that and that mentality needs to change FAST because Leicester will not come here to Anfield and allow us to play. Klopp may not know his best 112 yet BUT he sure knows when the team is not giving effort and that is unacceptable. Already, we strike no fear into opposing teams so if have a reputation of folding when the going gets tough then we are really in deep doodoo.

22 Dec 2015 14:26:34
Even with 112 players, we still would have lost.

22 Dec 2015 11:41:48
Rossiter and Chirivella should be starting ahead of Lucas and any other Cm who played the last three match. They couldn't be worse.

22 Dec 2015 15:36:47
will you have extreme optimism come this Saturday? Did you see Leicester playing recently? They really remind me of us with Suarez 2013-2014, going forward they are as fast, accurate and clinical as you can see in the PL. And their style of play is exactly the kind of style we struggle most against. I personally will watch the game behind the sofa.

By the way, I didn't see the Arsenal- City match yesterday but I understand Arsenal played quite deep and were happy to let City have possesion in midfield even though they hosted the game. I think we should do the same on Saturday. Otherwise we are playing to Leicester hands.

22 Dec 2015 19:41:27
I always have extreme optimism on match days whether I'm at the match or not. After being in Istanbul I always think we can score 3 in the next 6 minutes. 😄.

23 Dec 2015 16:00:13
I think we should go hard after Leicester. They will be a team that the high press may very well work against, since they won't be content to concede possession.

They will play hard and up-tempo; and we should answer with high pressing, giving them very little room for the back to link up with Mahrez.

Isolate Mahrez and you isolate Vardy.

Easier said than done, of course.

And if Leicester City concedes possession (as they did against United) and look for Vardy on the counter. well, I hope Kolo has been training sprints.

22 Dec 2015 09:57:25
Hi Guys and ed's!

Is it only me or is coutinho looking like he is off to spain? The players dosnt even bother to chase the ball except emre, henderson at times. Cheers chris.

22 Dec 2015 17:38:05
For Coutinho to get the move he desires he's got to be playing at a much higher level than he is now.

It's not a motivation thing, it's an inconsistency thing.

22 Dec 2015 06:37:26
Hi eds,

A few papers speculating that Skrtel is out for 3 months!
Any truth to this? Or are they just creating stories.
I never believe a word unless it comes from you or the club itself.

{Ed002's Note - The club has not said anything about Skrtel at this time - it will be speculation. There may well be an update later today.}

22 Dec 2015 07:05:49
Thanks ed.

{Ed002's Note - You are welcome.}

22 Dec 2015 07:55:17
Whatever the length of the injury is, it is clearly not an easy one and it just shows how rubbish were the (many) comments here suggested he left the pitch because he couldn't bother to make the effort. Not that most of us needed to hear these news to know that these suggestions were baseless.

22 Dec 2015 08:32:01
ive seen both skrtel and sakho both still playing after going out of the field for treatment.

skrtel has been stapled on his head, bandage wrapped around his head and was still playing. if anything it wasnt because he can't be bothered. i'm not a fan of skrtel, but ill never question his effort on the field.

22 Dec 2015 10:03:16
Effort getting on to the field yes. Efforts when on can be questioned. Just not strong enough. Against ighalo point proven and watch him against attacking corners. Not strong enough at all.

22 Dec 2015 10:46:23
Yeah someone this week questioned his desire, saying something like he didn't fancy it, I think that's harsh as klopp has said he has picked up an injury now, and he has proven he will fight when down.

22 Dec 2015 08:40:42
Strange, He is the longest serving player at the club now. Survived 5 managers at Liverpool. From Rafa Benitez to Jorgen Klopp, He is the first choice defender.
But he isn't good enough.

21 Dec 2015 23:55:54
Hello eds,

I would appreciate if you could educate me on how EPL contracts are. I a much more knowledgable about American sports contracts, salary caps and ramifications of cutting players in sports like American football. My big reason for asking is seeing how many ask for a big overhaul. You say they need to sell to buy which must be based on overall finances and debts but is a played contract guaranteed? Can a team just cut players and if so what is the financial obligation to the player.

Many thanks.

{Ed002's Note - I would need specific questions but the basis of the need to sell to by is due to financial constraints for clubs to be self-funding and squad size constraints imposed by regulations (all of which vary on a country-by-country basis).

Any club can cut a player at any point thereby making him a free agent. The financial commitment is all of the salary to contract end due immediately and any subsequent bonuses he would have gained being paid as they become due.

It will involve payments to previous clubs and leave the club open to litigation of there are contractual terms related to sell on fees etc.. It doesn't happen - clubs can, toward the end of a contract, buy players out and hope to negotiate a lower cost (that was the old approach the gave Liverpool much debt in the past and provided some of the lessons learned - Degen, El Zhar etc.).

As far as I recall they got lucky once with one player who allowed much of what he was due to be negotiated away as he knew he had suffered injury - one for the good guy list. It remains a pity the fans never saw that and trashed him like any other future, current or former Liverpool player.}

22 Dec 2015 00:15:11
Was it Michael Owen Ed2?

Aww, please don't leave us hanging Ed.

{Ed002's Note - It was discussed at the time and it was Joe Cole.}

22 Dec 2015 00:55:02
Thanks you very much answered it. I was just trying to analyze how easy it would be to clear out players if they are not in Klopp long term plans. I have a good concept of American football and how it often will take 2+ years to purge and rebuild whether it is bad players or over priced players using to much salary cap space thus minimizing the ability to spend on youth and promising talent. Seems a tad easier to rebuild for LFC per se but by no means as simple as some seem to portray. In Klopp I trust though!

Buon Natale!

{Ed002's Note - The club went through this a couple of rebuilds ago and it will be the same need to figure out how to best deal with moving the fringe players on. Options (in order of preference) are:
(a) Sell them;
(b) Let them leave by mutual consent on a free - it means paying up any outstanding signing on fee and bonuses if applicaple;
(c) Agree to release them from their contract for a negotiated settlement figure - perhaps all of any outstanding signing on fee and bonuses but maybe half of the wages that would be due for the remainder of the contract - it would a case-by-case negotiation;
{d) Release them from their contract - paying up all outstanding signing on fees, bonuses and wages that would be due for the remainder of the contract.

Liverpool have been financially mismanaged more than most in recent years with the club incurring significant debt (the first three years of tenure of the owners saw losses at £1M per week). They are borrowing still for the stadium and to fund purchases. They have an on-going threat hanging over them in terms of FFP. However, they do have the benefit of significantly increased income from 2017 and they have been doing very well with commercial sponsorship. Don't forget that loans need to be paid off. Don't forget that the club, whilst doing well commercially, has built significant debt. Don't think that when the additional income arrives it can be spent again - it can't. The club needs to be fiscally responsible and needs to work within the frame work of the rules. Many of the fans demand an annual rebuild of the Liverpool squad and accept it will only be one year of transition. Now some seem to have the view that the squad needs to be rebuilt twice a year and the club can afford it because they have this windfall coming in 2017. It is always difficult to explain about finances and I do periodically do it, or try to do it. But the class still struggles with math 101.

As for the salary cap, some countries have one others don't. Some have caps on the % of income that can go on wages - and sometimes it works but more often it strengthens the elite.

Have a great day Pete. There were a number of high-profile football folk from an English side in Colorado only last week for a strategy meeting - an opportunity for some autograph hunting missed.}

22 Dec 2015 11:04:18
Well I'll be one of the first to say it.

"Fair play Joe Cole" 👌.

22 Dec 2015 14:06:45
Hopefully this time around things will be done correctly, we can only wait and see.

Let's hope he finds a couple a gems in the youth teams, we know at the start of next season we should have 2 players that have shown glimpses of quality when they were playing in Ings and Gomez. They give us 2 very good options for defence and attack.

We also have at least 2 players on loan that have shown they have a bit about them in ward and markovich.

We have a team that really needs a spine to be fair, if our GK, 1 of CB's was say a level above Sakho, a CM who can properly dictate and control a game, and a ST that can hit 20-25 goals a season. I think we would seriously be looking at a title contending team. 4 players of that quality isn't going to be easy to find, and they probably won't come cheap but it's not unrealistic either. Dosnt require another complete clear out and can be achieved in 2-4 windows.

Think with klopps past there will be a increase in the quality of player we sign without having to break the bank. We do have a number of players that have done well in other prem teams that could be sold then replaced without having to borrow crazy amounts of £££. Can't see Klopp going on a spending spree even if they made the money available, we have seen the best and the worst of our current crop of players and if we can get closer to how we played against city and Southhampton more consistently, which will be the case come next season, things don't look as bad as they have after the games of the last few weeks. Think the reason they feel so bad and cause the negative posts after games, of which I'm guilty as like many of u we come here to type it out and release the anger and frustration, is because we know and have seen how good we can be.

22 Dec 2015 15:44:52
Math 101.good one. Who were the big wigs in my neck of the woods? Always seem to miss things.

{Ed002's Note - They were from or there related to Chelsea.}