Liverpool Banter Archive September 21 2014

21 Sep 2014 23:45:20
I think BR has to do something now we can't go on like this, the results will force his hand i suppose we shall see!

I bet BR can't wait to be handed a multi-million pound war chest in January to bolster his squad.
But seriously, it seems to me that a well-drilled defence is all we are really lacking and Sakho, Lovren, Moreno and Manquillo need to step up a level. We have so many talented options up front and midfield but they need to be allowed to produce without worrying about what is going on behind them. As much as it is great to see Balotelli back defending in his box, he shouldn't have to. I also worry about my favourite player Gerrard - if he was on the market as a def mid I don't see many top clubs rushing to buy him. He can put in a decent shift there as he is such a great player but its a square peg in a round hole and based too much on sentimentality. I'd prefer to see Gerrard start on the bench and be brought on for one of the attacking midfielders when we need some inspiration. 20-30 minutes in his favoured role is better than a whole match out of position imo.
Finally, does anyone know where the mancs who posted all over here yesterday have gone? Has something happened?

22 Sep 2014 07:36:36
Blocked

I wouldn't give him a penny to spend for the next 2 windows and If Liverpool fall outside Top 4, I would have sued him for my money ( Being FSG )

So How many world class players were at the Pulis Disposal last time, When He nearly won the Manager of the season?

22 Sep 2014 08:30:01
Well said Harry. BR had his shot in this transfer window and he got most of the players he wanted. Lallana, Lovren, Lambert and Moreno were signings he personally asked for and they cost a big amount of money.

If he cannot get LFC into the top 4 in spite of the money the club has thrown around, he should get the sack. His signings have been underwhelming so far, not to mention most were not exactly needed to improve the team.

There are lots of brilliant young coaches like Koeman, De Boer etc who would jump at the chance to manage LFC. I remember De Boer saying he would prefer to coach a club like LFC or Spurs rather than Real or Barca bcoz it would give him an opportunity to build his own team using youth players than having to deal with big egos. That is what a LFC manager should be all about.

BR on the other hand will run the moment Real or Barca make him an offer as Ed002 has mentioned a number of times. He is very much replaceable.

Ridiculous post IB - should get the sack? And what, replace him with someone else who will want to spend another 100 mil?

Honestly, we've played 5 games. Poorly or otherwise, it's only 5 games. Whether the signings turn out to be great, average or poor, it doesn't detract from what Rodgers is trying to achieve with us. How on earth are we going to have sustainability if we rip up our philosophy and change manager every season?

I've been as gutted as everyone so far this season, but to mention sacking the manager is nothing short of ridiculous.

22 Sep 2014 12:45:26
JH

The first think He would do in Jan is buy another 2 players. 100% guaranteed.

The first 5 games also shows his naive apprach to games.

We played against all the different styles of play.
Counter attacking, Pass and move, Direct, Aggressive pressing and results have been poor.

His apprach to Henderson has been shocking till now.The boy has not crossed the half way line till yet. He was the soul of our high pressing game.

And TBH Mate, If one of my employe couldn't get the job done with 200 mill spend, I would sack him.

Jimmy Hustle, i very much doubt either De Boer or Koeman would demand that sort of money for transfers. Just look at the mediocre budget these two have worked with and the number of players they have developed over the years. They preach total football, and will be willing to work with a smaller budget. BR on the other hand has spent over 200 million GBP and is still complaining about squad depth and lack of options.

Boom,

We've played 5 games.

Do I think we've been poor? Yes. Do I think Rodgers has been tactically naive? Yes. Do I think Rodgers has made mistakes? Yes. But to suggest sacking him makes absolutely no sense at all.

Let's say your scenario pans out, and he gets sacked at the end of the season. Then what? Get another manager in, completely overhaul the squad AGAIN and then rebuild the philosophy from scratch?

We were a few games away from winning the league last year, so 3 months later and 3 poor results, and let's fast forward 6 months and think about sacking the manager?

There are a number of reasons why things are pear-shaped at the moment, but the bottom line is, we've been found out tactically and that's Rodgers' responsibility to solve, let's at least give him the chance to do so.

22 Sep 2014 14:36:04
JH

None here has demnaded to sack him tomorrow. He would get a complete year to achieve his target. that's another 9 months. ( Not my words. But FSG )

From finishing second and a 150 mill transfer budget, We are now competing for top 4 spot. aren't we?. With that attitude I would never find a job outside.

IB,

I'm guessing Koeman was high on your list a few seasons ago to replace Kenny? Talk about flavour of the month.

You have no idea what Koeman would demand or anyone else for that matter. As fans, we're not privy to any of the discussions that happen behind closed doors.

Willing to work with a smaller budget? That's like saying Rodgers was willing to work with a smaller budget at Swansea? If the objective for Southampton is to get into the top 4, I'd imagine that small budget your talking about turns into a conversation about a larger budget. However, I do agree that Rodgers has bought poorly on a number of occasions.

Boom - top 4 has to be the realistic target for us. We've lost arguably 1 of the top 3 players in the world, had no distractions last season and were, in reality, a suprise package. As I eluded to earlier, we're getting done tactically at the moment, and that lies totally with Rodgers, but let's give him time to find a solution.

21 Sep 2014 23:12:20
Why don't you just for one week or two stop blaming the players and just ponder if the system is working with the players that we have .
I am sure yesterday's defeat was down to Glen Johnson, it must be his fault in some way; skrtel what a liability, Lucas what's the point of him; and Gerrard how bad is he, he is getting old and have no legs, a bit like Lampard, these two way past it, they won't change a game or have any influence .

Now now Roy! You are long enough on this site now to know you can't use common sense or logic in your posts. Only delusion and conspiracy with a little bit of football manager/coach is required. Unless you are Ozone, then you can use a crystal ball.

Spot on Irish. N BTW, if you think people are clueless on this site, U should hop over to the LFC official website after the defeat on Sat or any defeat, draw or even a win. U will be shocked out of your pants to read the utter drivel and hate-filled tripe that a lot of our "suppporters" post on the comments section. I feel ashamed atimes to consider them as our "fans".

Yes tactics and shape play a big part, but when players look like they are playing a sunday league game and putting little footballing talent or effort into a game then yes the blame falls squarely wirh them.

21 Sep 2014 22:31:31
In my opinion the key problems from the West Ham game:

1) Team Selection. We have no mobility when Gerrard and Lucas play in midfield, none. Henderson was poor as well but he can at least put himself about - the other 2 can't. We lost the battle in midfield yesterday and as a result lost the game. In general Gerrard has been dominated every game he's played this season - it is a massive concern.

2) Tactics. To play Borini up front with Balotelli, as opposed to Sterling, baffled me. We have an abundance of attacking midfielders and Sterling is capable of playing up top - why have him in the attacking midfield role? Borini's decision to shoot from a tight angle when he could of played a team mate in for a tap in infuriated me.

3) Defence. Woefully organised, lack of harmony and trust in each other. Mignolet leaves players on edge with his inability to command his area; if we keep chopping and changing our 2 CB's we are not going to develop a solid defensive unit. There are many problems but I do expect them to improve as the players become more familiar - let's not forget we were playing 3 new signings in our defence, it will take time for an understanding between the players to forge.

4) Balotelli. It's not that he lacks quality - his touch and control leading up to the Sterling goal was immaculate - but for the system we employ he seems like the wrong type of player. Immobile, doesn't chase/close down opposition players in possession enough, doesn't make enough runs - ultimately doesn't keep the opposition defence busy enough. With Sturridge fit it might be different and I certainly don't want to write him off yet - he deserves time to adapt to our system - but the initial impression is a massive concern. We have not looked like scoring many goals in Sturridge's absence.

5) Referee. By no means the key reason but he was very poor. Numerous bad tackles from West Ham, numerous dirty pieces of play (Adrian studs in on Borini, blatant elbow on Lovren, etc etc) - all unpunished. Equally a ton of time wasting by West Ham that he did little/nothing to fix. Thought his decisions reflected the zeitgeist of the crowd, very very poor, should not be refereeing at PL level in future as clearly unable to handle it.

6) Poor start, inability to turn tide. Our trademark for the past year has been our lightening quick starts. This was lightening quick, but for our rank play. Half asleep, not focused and not well drilled and a basic goal from a freekick (which was not a freekick). 2-0 after six minutes? So difficult. We have also struggled badly when conceding first - even last season we didn't do great when we were chasing games. We had some successes but actually conceding was often a death sentence. We have to learn how to comeback and grind out wins - at the moment we don't seem capable.

Balotelli closed down lots in the first half especially, just seemed to be on his own! Then I guess he gave up but can you blame him as he got no success or support!

Seasons come and go BUT never look the same, says a French proverb. Last season was last season. Let it go and focus on this season and defo the next game which is CRITICAL for the team`s confidence. As for Balo, he pressed and hustled BUT got no help from the other players which is not the way we normally play. I think BR is tinkering and over-thinking things a bit too much w/ our scheme and needs to just go back and tactically, do the simple things well and move from there.

Personally, I'd blame any player who gives up in the middle of a match, Fencey

I saw Mangala playing with company and I guess that was his first game, and the way that lad played was awesome, so the thing about new signings not getting along or need more time is just myth.
There have been already 6 games, may be 6 training sessions between all of them.
I feel the Coaching methods are restricting players to play their natural game. BR needs to think out of box and get a defensive coach and organize the defense asap.

{Ed001's Note - Mangala was the only change to a very settled back four, hardly a fair comparison to Liverpool's defence, which has 3 new signings in it, plus one who only joined last year. To show one example is not really proof either, as there is always an exception to every rule.}

What I have noticed, early on, is that Balotelli will try to close down the first pass but, if isn't successful, will not run after the ball anymore. The difference is that Suarez would chase down every single pass defenders were making between one another - Balotelli loses heart after 2 passes and stops chasing. It makes it easier for the opposition to settle on the ball and play out of defence. Our system demands that he work harder and try and close down every pass within is sphere of influence. The question is can he do that? Initial impressions are not iron clad but it is worrying. What is also worrying is the lack of movement and attacking runs in the box from him. How many times, when we were advancing (which admittedly wasn't much), was Balotelli no where near the 18 yard box? It happened a good few times.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to say he was awful - there were many poorer performers than Mario - but his style of play seems in direct contrast so our teams style of play: that is a big concern. I hope he can adapt and change, but I'm not very confident of that happening.

21 Sep 2014 22:06:41
Hello!

Respected Ed'002

My question is for you is given below, as stated by you that the Liverpool owners have constantly pumped money into the club and we're losing money every week.

I would really want to know according to you will there be a time when Liverpool can be sustainable financially as club?

Your views are much appreciated.

{Ed002's Note - This past season and the increase in television money will have turned around the majority of the losses and getting back in to the CL this season will put the club on a much better financial footing. The club has an immediate FFP problem of course, and must be able to sustain the CL position for say 3 years out of five going forward. The spending on players must be curtailed and managed.}

Thanks ED'002

22 Sep 2014 05:46:32
Always in agreement w/ your assessment, Ed002.

21 Sep 2014 21:01:12
Sorry but now is the time for the manager to make a big decision. If Rodgers wants to be a liverpool manager he has to take a leaf out of Bob Paisleys book and learn when to drop players. Gerrard has been a top, top player but now it seems to be a case of trying to find a position for him. For the last season and a bit I have continuously said the same. We will not win the top trophies whilst Gerrard is number 1 in the midfield. His legs have gone and maybe he knows it. To be a top manager you have to be ruthless. Emlyn Hughes, Ian Callghan, tommy smith and a lot more who were legends for my club were let go when they were shot. But we went on.stevies time is up in my opinion. It's sad but that's life. Thanks for the memories and good luck. Now let's begin another journey. Waiting for all the crap now but remember the best manager we ever had and his attitude. you have to know when a players time is up.

Yep agree never rated gerrard tbh

21 Sep 2014 22:00:46
'never rated Gerrard'? Are you for real?

I think Gerrard can still play a role, but not playing 90 minutes any more. he's clearly not a defensive mid and this is the reason our defence looks so bad.

With the formation and style we play its crucial the dm can relieve pressure on defenders and a real quality dm could have solved the problem. infuriates me that when lucas is playing, gerrard stays at the back with lucas ahead, leaving them both in a position they can't play.

Hopefully Can can do this when he is back, seems like the best option for it to me. Something needs to change because we are toiling big time this year, though its easy to forget that game could have been very different if we had sturridge bringing a bit of variation to our attack and more for other teams to worry about. We miss him big time!

Sparky71 obviously a Man Utd. fan and a wind up merchant, i wonder if he is still laughing after today's result?

21 Sep 2014 20:48:21
Well what a difference a day makes! Whilst today's results don't solve our deficiencies, it does highlight that we aren't the only ones with issues!
Clearly this European hangover is catching, even for that lot that haven't qualified! I can only assume last nights visitors are away chomping on their humble pie today!
I think it just highlights how competitive this league is.

21 Sep 2014 21:49:05
Must admit we had a lucky week, other results made ours seems ok . Its a proof that the premier league is the most unpredictable and its why it has the most fans all over the world

A lot of our success and energy last season was put down to the fact that we had no European football to worry about mid week. Maybe Manu are tired with the thought that they still have an upcoming FA Cup campaign to deal with? There could possibly be an extra game or two for them this season.

21 Sep 2014 19:58:07
For as long as I can remember just as one star fades at Liverpool another is reborn.

Dalglish-Rush-Fowler-Owen-Gerrard-sterling?

Hope its ballotelli

21 Sep 2014 19:21:08
It really has been a crazy weekend of football. It's why the game is so brilliant!

I haven't been on the pages a few days but I come here and expect to see all the doom and gloom merchants out in force after the defeat. And they were!

We then get all the Everton and Mancs getting giddy because we played poorly and shown some concerns.

Then they do exactly the same and lose embarrassingly to teams they should beat. And they start bitching about their team. It's all very hypocritical. Morale of the story is maybe you should wait until your team plays before laughing at everyone else? :)

Gives us another game to get our team firing again.

Exactly mikey! By then we'll be a much more frightening proposition all together. We've been let off the hook for our mistakes, win the derby an it may be the catalyst we need.

A derby game is just what we need actually. Gets the blood pumping in our players and current form goes out the window.

21 Sep 2014 18:50:14
Added some quality photos do the sightings page.
Treat yourselves. .

21 Sep 2014 17:57:44
What a classic day in the premier league! If we'd won yesterday, Man Utd Spurs and Everton would all have won I bet haha. Serious opportunity to move into as great position missed though annoyingly

21 Sep 2014 17:39:07
A poor weekend for all the big teams it seems.
United got thumped hilariously by a newly promoted team 5-3.
Tottenham lost to West Brom at WHL 1-0
Liverpool lost to West Ham 3-1
Everton are losing 3-1 to Palace at Goodison
And Chelsea are beating City at the Ethihad

Makes our result seem less worrying, I am glad that United got an absolute drubbing.

Opportunity missed though!

Looks like no one is keen to take that 4th spot (I think the first 3 belong to Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal) - maybe it will not be one of the obvious candidates although ManU at least look good going forward. The results of the weekend does leave a bit of leeway for whoever recovers first though. I am still very worried about us. We have deep systematic problems in every department that will be hard to overcome in a short time. And just think if we were up and running and win these two must win games against AD and WHU we were today 7 points above ManU and Everton and 6 above Spurs. But maybe Sturridge will make the difference. I think who ever lose the game between us and Everton next week need some other-than-football-watching hobby for this season.

21 Sep 2014 18:41:18
Fanobip

I think who ever lose the game between us and Everton next week need some other-than-football-watching hobby for this season

That was Epic. I would have to sort out with my GF. lols.

22 Sep 2014 05:46:00
Opportunity missed indeed, but certainly gives credence to Ed002 putting all of the s*** posts on the "other" page. The amount of vitriol on Brendan and the team this weekend has been embarrassing.

21 Sep 2014 17:23:10
Really hoping Can will become our Matic, just hope that BR gives him the chance and gives Gerrard some bench time.
I still think Gerrard would make a great impact sub like Giggs did for many years

Agreed. Gerrard needs to be managed properly by a manager using his head and not his heart.
Said all along Brendan needs to prove he has a pair and sort out the Gerrard problem.

21 Sep 2014 17:00:34
Sorry guys i just saw the begining of the end of superman Stevie G yesterday has been coming for a while but his passing was the last thing he gave the team and has been woeful for the whole of this season, the guy needs a long rest whether he wants it or not no one man is bigger than the team as he says, would play 3 at the back other than gerrard in the holding role cannot blame the defence for poor midfield play and not keeping the ball, only so many attacks the defence can handle from lossing possesion so frequently.

The team selection was a joke yesterday, hendersin on the left and lucas on the right absoulute disaster.

21 Sep 2014 17:11:35
We tried the same last season and failed utter miserably. So its not a new experiment by BR.

21 Sep 2014 16:57:20
Things could be worse boys, we could have grown up supporting utd.
Just as I thought sydney would slither out from the rock he has been hiding under as well.

21 Sep 2014 16:36:46
TBH, We played better against City than Chelsea. They haven't crossed the half way line yet. "

Must have been a hell of a strike by Schurle to score from his own half.
We let goals in, Chelsea don't.

21 Sep 2014 18:18:23
Ken

Chelsea first shot on target came in the 70th min after the sending off. You do expect a team to take the advantage.

21 Sep 2014 16:27:55
Lads just watch Yaya Toure in this game. He is playing in an advanced midfield role in the gap between Fernandinho and the forwards. Watch how he just strolls about the pitch yet he always makes himself available and dictates play really well. Why can't Gerrard play this role instead of the DM position which requires so much more physically?

Red Rum

21 Sep 2014 16:41:45
None of the Chelsea players are pressing high up. They are happy in letting City having the ball.
Chelsea re clearly here for a draw.

Chelsea defend deep and let you have the ball. I do admire the way they defend with a very resolute attitude. I wish BR could instil this into our players BUT that`s another story.

21 Sep 2014 16:16:11
Really wish we had taken a chance with Remy medical or not. Thought at the time he was a great catch

21 Sep 2014 15:22:22
Hi guys would like to know your views on the players you have signed from us (southampton) I know lovren has made a few cock ups and lallana hasn't really made an impact at all oh and lambert missed his first ever career penalty but just wanted to know your views on these signings Brendon has brought in and do you think they were worth the money? Personally thought we were going to struggle without them but IMO think we have replaced then with better players. All the best for the current season!

21 Sep 2014 15:47:03
Too early to tell, really.

Although Lovren has made a couple of mistakes, I think our defensive problems are systematic rather than down to individuals. Lallana looks tidy on the ball, but he's not 100% so far so there's been no end product as yet. Lambert's been used sparingly.

TBH we could have done without any of those players, especially lallana. Not saying they are not good players, but we already had those positions covered and they were only signed to keep BR happy.

21 Sep 2014 16:13:09
I think we will give them a chance to settle they will be ok they didn't suddenly become bad players all of a sudden.

Spot on something red. I think once we get the system correct we will start to work better as a unit.

I think after 10 games we will have a much better idea of how well they are settling in. Feel free to pop back over with the same question then.

Red Rum

Would rather have spent £50m on one player who improves the first team, than 3 players who don't.

"Would rather have spent £50m on one player who improves the first team, than 3 players who don't."

You make it sound so easy.

Costa? Turned us down. Sanchez? Turned us down. Rodriguez? Didn't even consider us. And so on.

And what player would that be?

Costa was on his way to Chelsea, he turned us down last season because we weren't in Europe. It turned out well for him.
I think we should have just said to Barcelona, it's Sanchez plus cash or no deal.
The reason we missed out on Sanchez is because Wenger put the effort in during the World Cup. I don't know what Brendan was doing, signing Lambert it seems.

According to most sources, Liverpool agreed a deal in principle to sell Suarez to Barcelona in January. So what were our scouts/transfer committee doing from January to July? Presumably they were trapped in Southampton by some incredible force-field.

Can you only think of Rodriguez, Costa and Sanchez who would have improved our first 11? What about Pogba? There are literally dozens who would be available for £50m or less.

21 Sep 2014 14:26:51
Our problem is we buy average players for world class prices. We have a history of it under fsg. It's of course not their fault but they keep giving the money to people that are obviously not good enough. Brendan can't spot a player. We need a top director of football someone that can entise stars, ready made stars to Liverpool. You can't build for the future while you have a rubbish present you need to buy top players or physically big players. Average players like diame, kouyate, sissoko, hundredstone & plenty other players run games because of their size. Emre can could be our new DM when fit if he looks as good in the PL as he does for Germany u21s then he'll do more than fine. But we need to sort out the now. Sterling, sturridge, balotelli, moreno, can must all start everyone else could be replaced for better quite easily. Lallana, markovic, sakho, lovren, mignolet, ilori, borini, origi, allen, aspas, alberto, coutinho, Carroll, downing, hendo have all been unsuccessful signings & most have made little or no contribution so far that's £250m plus of wasted money. For this money in the time it's been spent kompany cost £6m, Cahill £10m, nasri £25m, toure £25m, matic £21m, lloris £15m. Only 2 of those weren't world class when bought by our rivals all of them if they came to Liverpool would be first choice in their position. Our transfers are shambolic. If you can't buy the best buy cheap

Henderson not successful you're talking out your ap*e.

21 Sep 2014 14:56:13
Your list of failures is a bit overpopulated. Don't see how after 5 league games you can deem Moreno as a must starter, but can dismiss Lovren, Markovic and Lallana as expensive flops. And Henderson? Come on, do you even watch us play?

{Ed002's Note - Keep in mind he is a Liverpool supporter - it will change on a game-by-game basis.}

Hendo is a good player our best midfielder by a mile but if 4 years ago when we bought him they could see how he's turned out he wouldn't have been bought for 20m not a chance. He's a good player I like him but again the question I will ask is "which of our rivals would swap him for a player that plays first choice in their team?" The answer? None.

A flop after 4 games. Useless post from a clueless fan.

I think we have some very good players in the squad, but it is up to Rodgers to find the correct roles for them.

You cannot write players of 5 games into a season.

Red Rum

"little or no contribution so far" isn't writting anyone off.. Answer in yes or no to the questions I asked as the rest is my opinion & I don't care for yours on anything other that the questions.

To use the terms "unsuccessful signings" and "wasted money" when describing Lallana and Markovic amongst others, suggests to me that you are writing players off.

It is your opinion and you are entitled to that but in my opinion it is way too soon to be writing our new players off.

P.S. Chill out a bit.

Red Rum

And after all of those words are the words so far. Not answering the questions I see

Harsh to blame the new boys when the failure is something more congenital.

The reality is that, like it or not, Gerrard is on the down ward curve in his career and I think that playing him in DMF is not fair on him and it's costing the team.

I would start with Can henderson and Lallana as our midfield as Can has the physicality needed and henderson and lallana the workrate and graft.

I agree there definitely

To me what sums up the stupidity of this post is describing Origi as an unsucessful buy, when he hasn't played for us. Not to mention Coutinho, Henderson and Allen as well, squad players are important too mate. If henderson had scored today, no doubt you'd be singing his praises.

There`s no point answering yes or no to your question because there are many layers to it hence, a VERY stupid question that doesn`t deserve a response.

21 Sep 2014 12:34:34
The one thing I cannot come to terms with is our total lack of movement,
Last season teams had a sea of red literally bombarding them, now we look far more like the Rodgers team that we saw during the first half of the first campaign.
Players out of position, no cutting edge, no movement.
Why switch the succesful diamond? Why push Sterling wide when his best moments this season have been central?
How can he not see Lucas is a better CDM than Stevie? And that Stevie's a far bigger threat in centre?
I know this is, how Ed002 would say, 'a dear Brendan' question, but these are I think valid concerns!

Back to the diamond please BR, I don't care if Sterlings playing better there than the 2 players you bought for that position, the good of the team must prevail.

I don't think it matters whether we play a diamond or a 433. As long as the midfielders press and the forwards move and cause problems up front, then games will be won. This lack of movement and creativity shows how important it was for our success last season.

Red Rum

21 Sep 2014 16:49:29
The only reason I mention the formations is when we play the 4-3-3 it seems Brendan sets is out to keep the ball and be patient.
When we switched to 2 up front, we press higher, play quicker and counter like lightning.
Having said that, there's no reason we can't play 4-3-3 and press, so you are right!!

Play the way you play, period. Our DNA is to attack therefore, Play 2 up and attack teams. Pure and simple!

21 Sep 2014 12:19:05
Eds,
Do you think BR is losing the dressing room, I watched Ballotelli chasing down the Hammers defenders and keeper and none of the other players helped him. We spent all last season chasing down defenders and got numerous turnovers and goals from it. Henderson was especially great at it but no sign of him this season.
Our players don't have the same drive and aggression as last season which was highlighted at the end of the first half when a ball was going out for a goal kick and our guys turned their backs but the hammers player kept it in and got a cross in.
This has nothing to do with new players, anybody can chase down a defender, anybody can shield a ball or clear a ball upfield or into the stands yet we're not doing it.

Are the players revolting a bit or is this BRs new tactic.

{Ed001's Note -it seems to be his new tactics, to drop deeper and hold onto positions defensively. It seems they are worried that pressing was dragging people out of position leaving space for the opposition to attack, which it does to a degree. However, dropping off and handing the initiative to other teams is just asking for trouble. You can only do that if you have a massively high workrate throughout the team, and defensively minded players to throw themselves into blocks etc. We don't have the right players for these tactics, we need to go at teams with the players we have.}

21 Sep 2014 12:41:59
ed001
teams are marking gerrard and we have trouble getting the ball upfield,when we played spurs with sturridge and balo uptop both of them asked for the ball on the wings.
when we did that spurs came a man short in midfield when they man marked gerrard.yesterday we tried it but borini is not feared as sturridge is.when sturidge gets double marking because of his pace.balo sturrride sterling up top give our midfield more space and time on the ball.

{Ed001's Note - but surely a manager should know that? The obvious thing is to play Sterling and Markovic out wide to create space in the middle. If the defence doesn't drop off, then they will get in behind them.}

21 Sep 2014 13:12:06
I would have Markovic & Sterling as inside forwards with the 2 fullbacks overlapping to create width & also dominate with numbers centrally.

Both have the capabilities to cut in & create from central positions for me. The signing of Balotelli however seems to suggest that he will persist with the diamond???

a midfield 3 of:

DM - Can
B2B - Gerrard/Henderson
'10' - Lallana/Coutinho/Suso

would be the best way to go for me.

21 Sep 2014 12:11:17
Reality check people, that is the only positive from yesterday. I believe ed001 has said it, that BR is trying to be too clever. But I also believe that we have allot of players who are simply out of form, steven, coutinho, henderson, even BR can't seem to get anything right thus far. I am really frustrated but I won't say more other than let's hope the team sit down and figure things out because they can turn around as long as we stick by them! one more thing, I'd like your opinion ed001 about lallana. Since coutinho is in a slump shouldn't he be starting? He seems to be our only player who can create and affect the game other than sterling

{Ed001's Note - for me he should never have been bought. I do like him as a player, but I fail to see what he does that Dunn, Suso, Coutinho, Teixeira and others, couldn't have done. Personally I would like to see Suso given a run in that position, not Lallana. Lallana is coming back from injury and looks like he needs to settle into the team. He should be doing that in training, not in the first team, when we are struggling.}

Could not have said it better ed001. In a couple of seasons, i can see Suso surpassing lallana as a much more complete player. We spent too much money on attacking mids when the priority should have been GK and CDM. It seems BR is trying to justify the hugely inflated fees we paid on his choice of players than do what is good for the team.

Well said ed001,

im with you, i did not see the need for us to buy him and pay so much for him when we had players who could do the same job, when we bought him we wasted his transfer fee and his wages when we did not have to, maybe
BR was swayed by everyone on here who wanted him and saying he was better than everyone else in the world, can't believe a lot of fans said he was better than fabregas,, that's so wrong, it is taking lallana longer to settle in his new club than fabregas, i wonder if these fans still believe their own hype about lallana and how bad fabregas is, because he never got a game at barca don't make me laugh well you all got what you wanted, and we will be further down the table after today

I like Lallana but have to agree, it's one of my biggest complaints against BR, we have bought so many players and ignored players we already have who are desperate to play for us and are not given a run in the team, we are told we don't have a lot of money and are trying to avoid serious debt but we spend like we don't have any money problems, i don't get it.

21 Sep 2014 11:59:36
BR and his coaching buddies need to sort out the defending and the defense. Get the basics corrected before it gets out of hand.

He has had 5 Transfer Windows, spend over £200 million and still hasn't got the defending working the way it should be.

Gerrard needs to be dropped, he is really struggling with the pace of the game. All you have to do is get a player with pace to press him, if you get the ball you basically have a free run of defence.
Use him as a sub or sparingly in his best position. This holding role is no longer working.

Who is the defence coach anyway ? Please someone tell me.

I agree about Gerard. Surely he knows it too. What's the point of having a great passer when it takes him too long to find the pass? Every team that plays is know our routine. West Ham showed that if you press us, we crumple

21 Sep 2014 11:37:14
Not the start all liverpool fans we're hoping for. But let's get behind the team & the manager. It's happened, it's not been great, but it's a long season. We're get a lot better.
When the teams playing bad they need the fans more than ever on there side.
We are liverpool

21 Sep 2014 10:40:32
Morning Reds and Ed's
I might attract some calls of blasphemy, or be accused of not being a " true supporter" but to be honest I couldn't care less or feel any worse than I do now after watching our recent performances.
Stevie G will always be a legend, but sadly the legend should be resigned to the history books, we should be looking to someone else to be the driving force behind our team be it Hendo or Can a decision needs to be made.
As some have suggested maybe try Stevie at centre back what's the worst that could happen? He could be a revalation but to leave him in his current position is stifling the players around him. Hendo's game seems to suffer the most lately playing along side Stevie, he'll receive the ball and instead of trying to build something he'll push it sideways or back to Stevie which either comes straight back in the same position or another short pass across the back line, again to be returned Stevie and on it goes. Pass and move seems to have passed us by and gone. We are so one paced in the middle with little imagination no wonder teams are doing to us what we did to them last season pressing us, the ball gets passed back, we loose it our defence panics before you know it we are behind.
I get that we can't be all out attack and we are missing Studge's movement upfront etc but Jesus let's at least consider it occasionally. Let's get some legs, bite and forward thinking in midfield if this means no more Stevie G then so be it, I would rather remember him as the awesome player he was than a shadow of his former self who held back the natural progression of our team.
Stevie is not the only player who should be looked at for performance levels however the position BR has put him in/created for him is having the biggest overall effect on the team, if our midfield doesn't click then what links defence with attack?

21 Sep 2014 11:14:44
Agreed
Give Stevie a game at cb
It couldn't get much worse than we already are. We need more energy in midfield. We've been overrun in every game so far

This could work wonders
For him and for us. He can still do free kicks corners and pens. And can bring the ball out from the back a la Hansen when the opportunity arises.

I'd love to see this tested out

21 Sep 2014 11:23:01
Frankly

Don't see happening mate, Pushing him at CB would give a signal to outside world, He isn't good enough in the midfield.

21 Sep 2014 11:47:28
He'll be worse at CB than at DM lads. He's just not got the positional sense and ability to pick up danger to be a defender. And at this stage of his career, he isn't going to get about the pitch enough to make up for it.

For me, Gerrard moved in the wrong direction. He should've moved forward and became a no. 10 to lengthen out his career. He wouldn't any more legs to play there than he does to play as a DM.

He's not, and never was a top class defensive midfielder. He always had the likes of Hamann, Alonso and Mascher to take care of the grunt work so he could use his outstanding quality in the top third to hurt teams. He got close to being a quality DM last season, but we still surrendered possession for large parts of a lot of games with him there (Cardiff, Norwich, Villa, Palace etc.) that we didn't earlier in the season when we had Lucas (or even Allen) at DM. During the Houllier era he was as likely to appear on the right as in the middle, and Rafa did everything he could to avoid playing him in the center. Think about why that was for a bit lads.

Agree with Boomer.

Spend £50m on Illori, Lovren and Sakho then stick Gerrard as centre back.

Daft idea, his defensive headers are garbage, he would give away a lot of fouls.

Disagree. Put Lovren and Sakho together for a few games and see if they can get it going.

Counter-productive having bought a completely new defense, to put your ageing captain, who needs to be accommodated, to be asked to play as a CB.

He isn't good enough in the midfield especially as a DM for 90 mins.

I've said it lots of times, impact sub like Giggs was for Utd.

Play Lucas until Can is fit then it's Cans position to own.

Better protection for Defense so Lovren/ Sakho/ Skertel will get some confidence back.

Unfortunately there is nothing we can do with Migs, he is a poor keeper for our system and should have been replaced in the summer.

It's not necessarily Gerrard that is the issue. Everyone seems to be dropping too deep to get the ball; when the player (CM) turns he's got 4 of our players behind him and 5 of ours infront with normally 10 of their players.

There's no space; the same as Ed1 pointed out; we scored / put pressure on so many teams with Henderson hurrying the opposition. If the whole team do not do this then we have issues.

Gerrard is playing as a CB when we have the ball; forcing Henderson deeper and the whole team.

You can't play a player of his age with his lack of pace at centre back when he's never played there.
The time has come to stop finding a place for Gerrard when we all know his place is sat on the bench.

21 Sep 2014 10:15:57
I spent yesterday's game trying to get bbc sport updates from a wedding in the middle of Wiltshire, and although I got the score and scorers and all, I still have no idea as to what went wrong.
Getting the general impression from everyone on here that either: a) Gerrard's past it, b) the defence remains she*p, c) the players need to settle or d) Rodgers has had his day.

On a sidenote I watched a great deal of Lallana last season and there is no way he is fully fit at the moment in response to all the complaints on that part but if anyone else could enlighten me on the game it would be much appreciated
Thanks

21 Sep 2014 10:35:13
If someone isn't fully fit, what's He doing in a match day is beyond me.
He should play a couple of games with the reserves to get his match sharpness. Let others who are fit get some games.

Forget his fitness, he should not have been brought in the first place and certainly not for 25 million pounds. All he is doing is taking Suso's place in the squad who we will end up losing for nothing next summer. Lallana is just another of BR's endless luxury signings that cost the club a big portion of the transfer budget.

21 Sep 2014 09:49:52
HEY ED
It wasnt abuse how was it ABUSE ?
It WAS constructive criticism maybe you do not agree with the rightful truth that is your opinion but you should give it the democratic right for others to judge its crystal clear the TRUTH HURTS but its the TRUTH.#

Comprendae

{Ed002's Note - No, it was just nonsense and abuse. It was posted on the page called "Other Liverpool Posts" where all of the post game trash goes.

And don't talk about democratic rights - that is making you look even more stupid.}

Digging yourself a hole here man.

21 Sep 2014 09:32:14
Hey ED
Where is all my posts its banter so why not post my criticism of Brends

{Ed002's Note - All of the rubbish you wrote was posted on the Other page last night. It wasn't banter it was simply mindless abuse of the manager and players. I simply do not have time for that - this is very much a Liverpool fans thing to set about them after every game. And Liverpool fans used to have such a great reputation - if there was criticism it was constructive which is fine. You are simply trolling the pages and writing abuse. It is embarrassing for me to read, and I am not even a Liverpool supporter.}

21 Sep 2014 09:19:41
What's all the doom and gloom for, lads? Did Brendan become a bad manager overnight. Relax. He'll get it right. Give him a bit of support.
It's only a blip. We'll come good.

{Ed002's Note - "Blip" was the game before last I believe. Then post "blip" we had the statement that the players would "gel". Pre WHU Rodgers wrote off the season with his statement of belief that the team would improve when the "second part of the season comes". But apparently the team lacked "intensity" yesterday. One wonders why he is trying to avoid the use of the word "transition".

One can only ponder the thoughts of the owners as Rodgers wrote off this season by saying that the team would improve in the second half?}

21 Sep 2014 09:29:44
I am pretty sure, FSG would have asked a written explanations from BR for the first 5 games.

Rogers would have gone by now if working for Roman Abramovich or Man City (and for a lot of CEOs in other, non-footballin areas, when they pay someone around £2M a year to do his job). And if you think they are too quick to act (even with managers who brought them successs in the past e.g. Mancini) see where their teams are.
Calling our performanc so far a blip is the understatment of the year. I believe that realistically we lost any chance for top 4 and I wouldn't call us work in progress because there is no progress, we look worse every week and I think most of our results flatter our performance. Some teams play badly despite good work from the manager but so far, with all the problems we have in golakeeping, defence, going forward, set pieces (for and against) etc, I think the biggest problem we have this year is in the manager position. He looks hopless, his formations don't work, there is zero organisation in defence, he is resting our best player because he played a week before but is giving a 34 years old who was really poor so far to play 3 90 minutes games a week. He may be a good manager for the kind of team and (lack of) expectations we had last season but I think he does not have the answers for the many problems we have this season and it is a shame because last season gave us a chance to build on success and hold on to the top. If we finish out of the top 4 (and I think we will finish very mid table at best) it can take us at least 5 more years maybe 10 before we can be back in the CL. Call me a pessimistic or histeric but I think that big teams, think of such starts of a season as a disaster and not a blip do better in the long run. But let's hope I am totally wrong.

Boom, if FSG need written explanations for the first 5 games they've not really learnt anything since they bought us.

The only things requiring explanation is how on earth did we trash spurs and beat Southampton?

21 Sep 2014 09:02:38
Hi all as an outsider I always thought this would be a very difficult season for you for 3 reasons.
You shocked every one by doing so well last season and with newly promoted teams they call it second season syndrome, it was always going to be difficult to repeat it.
Add to that losing Suarez a player who probably had the best season of any player I've ever season in our top flight the only individual I can think of who ever got close to that level was Ranaldo.
Then there's the CL, city with all their money strugled to cope in games following a European game in their first season of trying to juggle with the CL/PL challenge.
Expectations were understandably high after last year but making Liverpool great again was always going to be a middle distance race and never a sprint.
Imo its next season that will be the biggest indicator of your future fortunes

21 Sep 2014 09:24:09
Gunner 62

Nice post mate, But we had only one CL match till now, Excuse of added CL matches is very poor.

21 Sep 2014 09:28:33
Don't think Rodgers is helping himself in a few areas. He hasn't done well in the transfer marker, keeps changing formations/selections when he needs to settle on his best 11 to let players build an understanding. Gerrard needs not to be an automatic starter.

BR proved me wrong last season as I believed he was out of his depth at Liverpool but he has done an excellent job results wise.
Some of his team selections and buys are hard to undertand and in that he reminds me of Benitez, too much tinkering and some strange buys for lots of money.
But Benitez was an excellent tactition especially in big games and if could have just left well alone instead of constantly reinventing the wheel who knows how different things would have been

21 Sep 2014 10:42:30
Gunner

That was the general myth, Rodgers won us the games. Instead It was our goals which has nothing to do with BR.
We conceded 3 against Stoke and All I could see was BR watching helpless in the lines, But we did score 6 and came out with 3 points.

We were average against Norwich for the first 20 mts, and then Suarez hit a belter. BR was yet again watching helpless. Fulham. Villa. Southampton. Spurs. It was our natural game.

None of his substitutions proved good last time.

These are facts.

21 Sep 2014 05:45:07
Well boys, things are not looking good at all. No need to sugar coat it. We are in a crap heap. Last year, we had either Studge and/or Suarez to finish the chances we created. Now, we have neither of them and it is showing. Also, we had a stable team selection due to having a small squad and no extra games in Europe. Now, we have a whole new squad w/ NINE players brought in. We might as well be 18 months behind because it seems we are starting from scratch AGAIN because we now are playing a game every 3 days which is new to BR and the squad. Our defence as a unit is getting worse. I almost threw up w/ disgust about how we conceded the first goal. Defenders just stood there watching the ball when it was delivered and NOBODY challenged a soul until the goal was scored. We are getting worse and I see NO desire nor effort in our defensive players to concentrate and stop the opposition from scoring. IMO, BR doesn`t know his best 11 yet and w/o Studge, we are struggling. Worse, it seems teams are starting to take advantage of all these ailings and we are unable to respond at the moment. Now for the positives. Firstly, it`s still early and we can bounce back and it is better to have issues now than a period in the season where it could be too late to recover. Secondly, we will have Studge back next week and hopefully, he will stay fit for a long time in order to form a partnership with Balo. Also, there is some time (not much) for BR to rectify these issues BUT he`d better move fast because patience wears thin these days. Finally, I implore all "true" fans like myself to support BR and the players. If there was ever a time he needed us to be by his side, it is now. He has done well and turned us into a force in the PL and got us back into the UCL at arguably the first time of asking. He transformed Suarez to the beast that he is now, created the nucleus of the England team in Hendo, Studge and Raheem and to some extent Flanno. He turned us into a team that smashed teams for fun over the last 18 months. Clubs would kill for a coach like that IMO. Personally, some of my best memories as an LFC fan was the way be battered Utd at OT w/o even breaking a sweat. Yeah, BR did that, too. He is not perfect and has his flaws and must learn. However, let us not turn our backs on him when he needs us the most just because we are having a lean spell. Remember we`ve only lost 5 of the last 19 games.in the league so let`s not lose our heads. Let`s keep the faith and continue to support the team and the boss. If we call ourselves the best fans in the world, then let`s show it and stand behind BR because he will feel we are w/ him and regain confidence and so will the players. And as for the haters who are basking in our difficult period, I don`t care for you, never have, never will and won`t bother commenting on you lot because you know who you are and you know what I think about you. To BR, our awesome fans, our owners and our great club. YNWA!

21 Sep 2014 07:37:27
Redohio

TBH, BR didn't do anything. He started a diamond whole last year, because it was impossible to drop both Sturridge and Suarez.

We conceded goals last term and its been the same show this term. Si where us the improvement? Goals win us the games last season. No goals, No wins this term.

SAS saved BR career last time. That's what its turning out.

We have started off too slow in our last 2 PL games and have then struggled to break the opposition down, which can be difficult to do when playing against teams who have something to defend. let's give the team time to gel before getting to critical about our performances. Come on you reds .

21 Sep 2014 08:50:29
If someone could, Y is Hendo being restricted, Last season he pressed high up the pitch, winning the ball back and then releasing it very quickly.

21 Sep 2014 08:59:59
Ohio , I love this idea that Sturridge will stay fit for a long time , you clearly have not followed his career .

I think he has an unbelievable talent but there are some who think he hasn't been fully fit since he arrived .

21 Sep 2014 03:11:25
If our posts will go to the other Liverpool posts what is the point of the Liverpool banter thing then? Anyway ed001 what do you make of our play so far?

{Ed001's Note - awful. Constant unnecessary tinkering is stopping the players having any chance of getting to work on combining as a team. And what the hell is the point in resting a player after 4 games??? If Sterling can't manage the first 10 games without burning out, then there is something wrong with the training routine they have him on. If he is struggling and needs a break, you rest him on the days off, not from the team. Brendan needs to stop planning ahead and just look at the next game. You simply can't tell who will be fit, so making long term plans is just stupidity. Worry about winning each game as it comes. You worry about tiredness when it manifests itself, not in the first month of the season.
Not buying a keeper, which was supposed to be a priority this summer, is coming back to bite us on the backside as well. We bought players we didn't need, but not the one we so desperately do need. We need a top keeper and striker, instead we bought attacking midfielders, when we are awash with them, and have to send a bunch out on loan. The club need to take a good hard look at themselves, they have made this a difficult season for Rodgers, who is then compounding things by trying to be too clever. Football is a simple game, get the basics right, stop trying to overthink it and just coach the simple things, such as technique and positioning, and everything will be fine.
By the way, the reason all the whining goes on the other page is simple. This is a banter page, banter is not whining, moaning, whinging and bitching. So the question is, why do you think a banter page has no point if we don't allow people to post stuff that is in no way any kind of banter?? Seems no point in a banter page awash with whining.}

Good post ed. I think they are not playing direct enough. Just put the ball into Mario's feet instead of going all the way back to the keeper

{Ed001's Note - I have kittens every time the ball is back with Mignolet, it is almost certain to end up going to the opposition.}

Have to agree. I think we've played 3 or 4 different formations as well as constantly changing the tactical structure from possession to lump it long to pass/move/press to three at the back with wingbacks. I'm a big fan of settling on your best and then buying players to enhance it, but kid in the candy store does sadly seem to have been the approach. Hopefully BR can make some sense of it and things turn around sharpish otherwise it could well be a long season.

21 Sep 2014 07:44:37
Ed01 Spot on.
Ypu could find quiet a lot of people missing who claimed Suarez goals would be replaced by attackers and midfielders.

I was in tears watching yesterday.

{Ed001's Note - I don't think you understand, this is nothing to do with Suarez, this is the whole team. I was watching Balotelli attempt to press the ball yesterday, not one other player stepped up and helped him, even though he was clearly unsettling the Hammers with his press. If one or two had stepped up and helped him, as they should have done, it is almost certain they would have turned the ball over to us and allowed us to attack them. Instead everyone else dropped off and watched, until Balotelli noticed he was on his own and stopped as well. We could have won the ball back high up the pitch, like we did last season, and created an opportunity. We don't need Suarez back for that, we need the whole team to step up and do their bit.}

21 Sep 2014 08:52:50
Ed01.

Your view on Henderson. He is a complete new player this term, what's Restricting him?

{Ed001's Note - tactics, and Gerrard. He is clearly being restricted and it is not suiting him or us. Rodgers has been completely outdone tactically this season, and it is unclear why he is messing about changing a winning system.}

Ed is right. BR gave this team an identity: Press, pace, power and precision. Or as we say, a GO GET `EM persona. If it is true that BR is trying to be too clever both in tactics and how he`s dealing w/ the media then I`m sorry, he`s digging his own grave. We came second not thru Suarez alone BUT by this identity of offensive football that allowed Hendo, Suarez, Sterling Studge and co to flourish. Now, he`s being to smart and therefore, is outsmarting himself. Memo to BR: Play the way you play, attack teams and smash them. PERIOD!!

21 Sep 2014 01:51:26
january unrealistic ins that will save us:

Pogba-50m
(powerful midfielder that we desperately need)
Reus-35m
(Goals that we are lacking)

all that is required until summer!

Our team is too slow at getting up the pitch once mignolet catches a cross.

You have got to be joking, more players to fix the problem of trying to integrate too many players?

Good logic that man. Not.

21 Sep 2014 07:47:12
Sell Borini.
Sell Lambert ( won't get games)

BUY A WORLD CLASS STRIKER WHO WOULD SCORE ON A BAD DAY.

21 Sep 2014 09:12:25
Who harry?

21 Sep 2014 09:26:46
Fensh

You need to dig deep in the market. Falcao was the one I wanted. Cavani is another good striker, A Big name, who would draw defenders out their position.

{Ed002's Note - They were never options Harry.}

21 Sep 2014 10:18:04
Harry, even Falcao would look rubbish in our team at the moment with the disjointed way we are playing. I actually think we have bought some good players but Rodgers is not helping himself with his decisions.

I'll say it again as well. Lovren hasn't become a bad player overnight and Mignolet isn't a bad keeper. Put a DM like Matic in front of them instead of Gerrard and get rid of this 'pass side ways at the back til Gerrard slowly arrives back to receive it and hoof it upfield' will make any defense look bad.

21 Sep 2014 10:54:30
Fensh

You do realize, We aren't going to drop Gerrard until He retires, So we need a world class player to wave his magic stick on his own and score goals.

We played some brilliant attacking display last time and some very poor, But we came out with 3 points thanks to our goals.

Else what you think with the money we had with us and the time, We wouldn't buy a world class proven DM?. we bought 3 from Southampton and Schniderlin was all available.

21 Sep 2014 11:12:15
Ed002. As much as I accept it, None would actually make any kinda difference.
Without a World class striker, We aren't going to score.