Liverpool Banter Archive January 21 2018

21 Jan 2018 21:29:43
Wow watching inter vs Roma and Allison definitely looks the part. Just produced a magical save to deny inter. Would be better spending 50 million on Allison than blow it on another forward.

21 Jan 2018 22:59:56
Agree, scoring isn’t an issue. Stopping silly goals is.

22 Jan 2018 00:18:54
The figure is what’s been touted about for Allison so no a magical save does not warrant a 50 million price tag but watching him throughout the game he made some good saves and looked very assured. There is a reason why he is being looked at by a lot of clubs and is highly regarded.

22 Jan 2018 08:13:26
What’s he like on crosses - more important than flashy saves.

21 Jan 2018 21:20:28
Quite a few media reports that Lemar wants to go to Barcelona.

That has drawn a line under that one.

Replacing Coutinho was always going to be difficult. Money or not.

21 Jan 2018 21:44:45
A few 'media reports' draws the line under nothing.

21 Jan 2018 21:55:51
He might as well sign for us then seen as we're a stepping stone to the Catalans.

21 Jan 2018 22:04:48
Don't see barcalona wanting him they definitely don't need him.

21 Jan 2018 22:11:17
So the team that took our best player are also taking the player we want replace him lol.

21 Jan 2018 22:17:50
If that's what he wants, we'll move on.

There are a lot of fish in the sea!

21 Jan 2018 23:05:25
If we wanted him as a replacement for Coutinio I'm sure a few quite words would have been spoken on this with Barcelona before we agreed to relese Phil.

So if the reports are true
1.Barca are Wa$%^rs.
2. Rumours are untrue.
3.We are wa$%^ers not to have agreed with Barca.
4. It's all FSG hype we want him.

21 Jan 2018 23:17:11
And last week Danchez was nailed on for City and everyone knew it. Things change.

22 Jan 2018 01:51:42
can Barcelona realistically afford him? apparently Griezmann they are after as well. so him and lemar are close to another 200 mil plus big wages. they would have to offload some players to make it happen and the only one they would get rid of worth a decent amount is suarez who would barely fetch a third of that total now.

22 Jan 2018 08:39:10
He might want to go to Barcelona but do they want him, especially after signing Coutinho?

21 Jan 2018 19:04:58
I just looked at the remaining fixtures, we have Unt and Chelsea away Spurs at home then every team from 9th-20th. It means absolutely nothing but on paper we have a more favourable run of fixtures than the rest of the top 6.

21 Jan 2018 20:07:35
Good post mate. Players just have to treat every game like a cup final and we will stroll to top 3 in my opinion.

Spurs are relying totally on Harry Kane staying fit and in form, Chelsea look weak and are totally reliant on Kante, and United look toothless without Pogba who is a suspension and fitness risk. Arsenal are a laughing stock right now. I still want FA cup, CL, or both though. We can beat anyone on our day so a stroke of luck and we may have a genuine shot!

21 Jan 2018 20:13:55
Looking forward to smashing Unt.

21 Jan 2018 20:35:14
Teams at the bottom from 9th down over will b hard to play as there all fighting relegation.

21 Jan 2018 21:47:23
Unless they’re relegated by the time we play them.

21 Jan 2018 22:03:45
Rather play a top 6 team that a bottom six team.

21 Jan 2018 22:18:19
Chelsea look weak?

They've still got a solid defence and a world class talent in Hazard who's hitting form.

I wouldn't be writing them off yet.

21 Jan 2018 22:21:07
That could potentially play into our hands, Deano. It is so competitive down there that 1 point isn't always going to be enough. We can hope!

21 Jan 2018 23:51:53
I fancied us for second but Sanchez is a game changer for utd, if Moreneo gets the team to play to his strengths it's game on.

22 Jan 2018 01:54:18
Mourinho has a squad already full of great players and rarely plays to their strengths. even at Madrid e did the same. I think its a backwards move for sanchez.

22 Jan 2018 07:48:16
Terrible move for Sanchez and dreadful for Arsenal not only losing him but convincing themselves that miktarian is the answer. Arsenal need someone with a bit of fight and he’s anything but that. Think holding Sanchez for the rest of the season was the smarter bet.

21 Jan 2018 16:13:56
Hi just a quick question for the eds and I appreciate it's probably been addressed before but what is your opinion on Liverpool's goalkeeping coach.

{Ed002's Note - I don't know him, don't recall ever meeting him and have never attended one of his coaching sessions. As such, I don't have any opibiob about him at all.}

21 Jan 2018 21:06:30
Yes Ed, but it's good to have an opibiob about something. Love opibiobs. Other than covfefes, opibiobs must be my favourite thing! :)

21 Jan 2018 15:13:53
Hi Eds. A question or two about Grujic, if I may. Is there still genuine hope that he will make it into a first team regular?

I understand the need to get him games on loan, for permit issues as well as personal development and I think the loan was a good idea, for all parties. Also, regardless of what he was told about game time that he hasn't had, he was clearly earmarked as a star of the future. With the uncertainty over Can's future, and the need to bolster the midfield do you think Grujic will have the ability to step up in the near (ish) future?

One more. Yesterday he was deployed as a defensive midfielder for Cardiff. Will Klopp or anyone at Liverpool have had an influence on where/ how they want him to play as well as how much?

{Ed002's Note - I don't know what Liverpool expect but his family are far from happy. He was a young player who was offered too much money by the club who then lied to get him a work permit. There has been no plan for his development at all and it would be fair to say he has been entirely mismanaged by the club.}

21 Jan 2018 16:40:14
It seems the only plan we had for Grujic was pre season game involvement. Hardly inspiring.

21 Jan 2018 16:42:07
Must be awful being paid too much money 😏.

21 Jan 2018 17:05:59
Ok cheers ed. Well hopefully there's a way back for everyone. Would love him to succeed. He's looked pretty good whenever I've seen him.

21 Jan 2018 21:12:18
He had injuries and is way too robust with challenges but he should have been given more opportunities too. The loan will be good for him either way.

22 Jan 2018 02:06:59
I agree Amerigo, I think there may have been an initial plan - he was certainly getting games pre-season but injuries have robbed him of time to get experience and consistency. in that time others have come in and pushed him further down the pecking order unfortunately. he needs a loan as he looks further away than ever to the 1st team right now.

21 Jan 2018 14:47:38
Hi Guys,

I have got 2 tickets via work for the FA cup game next Saturday. Since my Dad's a big Liverpool fan I am taking him, he has a few mobility issues. So I am looking for ideas for the bet place to park.
I have seen that North Liverpool academy offer parking for £7. I also believe that Goddinson allows parking on match days also? Any ideas would be welcomed
Given kick off is 19:45 we are looking to get there around 16:00 and hopefully go in the museum also.

Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - Call the following number and they will advise: 0151-264-2500, selecting option 2.Else email: disability@liverpoolfc.com }

21 Jan 2018 15:12:06
This site is great.

21 Jan 2018 15:32:54
no this is the greatest site!

21 Jan 2018 22:44:32
Thanks ed.

21 Jan 2018 14:28:28
Net spend became an excuse while Rafa was at the club.

Net spend means bugger all. What you pay for a player, the total amount, including wages and all other agreements in the contract is the be all and end all.

Our wage bill was in a shambles when FSG took over. We were paying massive wages for a team that was going absolutely nowhere.

Wages for players make up majority of a the clubs expenditure each season.

Our squad now is way more balanced wages to achievemnt compered to what Klopp was left to take over.

Rafa, good man but he made way too many bad signings. Quantity over quality.

21 Jan 2018 14:44:34
Yeah Rapha. You only won one Champions league, got us to another final, bought Alonso, Torres, masch, won the FA cup and 2nd in the league. rubbish manager.

21 Jan 2018 14:57:25
Do you not really know what happened during Rafa’s time, max LFC? Have you only started supporting Liverpool in the past few years? Have you never heard of Hocks and Gillett? Players Rafa bought who could be described as decent at the very least include Reina, Arbeloa, Alonso, Mascherano and Torres. Rafa had deals lined up for Vidic, Dani Alves, David Silva, David Villa and was checking out a young Aguero. The fact that he wasn’t given the money by H and G meant that he had to go for cheaper and lesser ability options. Maybe they are some of the players you are talking about, but they were definitely not Rafa’s first choices. In about 3 transfer windows we recouped more than we spent.

I think Klopp has generally recruited well but if Hicks and Gillette were still here he probably wouldn’t have got VVD, Mane, Salah or the Ox and would have had to settle for players like Michael Keane, Joselu, Atsu and the like.

I suggest you read the book ‘An Epic Swindle ‘ by Brian Reade before you accuse Rafa of leaving the club in a mess. In fact, we have had Hosgson, Kenny and Rodgers since Rafa and I suggest blame could be more appropriately apportioned there.

21 Jan 2018 15:03:57
Rafa was as much to blame. Look at how many people got fired when he left the club.
He's not as clean as he makes out to be.

21 Jan 2018 15:10:25
To be fair i don't think Max is implying that Rafa left the club in a mess. He is saying that the club was in a mess when Klopp took over, which to be fair it was a bit of a shambles. What i will point out is that the wage bill went up 25% in 2016, giving Liverpool the third highest wage bill but on the back of that Liverpool are in the Champions League generating much needed extra revenue, so it has worked i guess.

21 Jan 2018 15:17:14
Klavy, I have been supporting LFC since 1992. I was introduced to the club by a Scouser. He was married to my sister. I have never looked back since then.

I hate it when people want to defend Rafa when he was part of the problem we found ourselves in with H and G. H and G leveraged the club to the banks in order for Rafa to make the signings he wanted.

If you do not want to believe that then go look at the financial mess LFC was in when the banks wanted to recall the loans.

I respect what Rafa won in his time for LFC but go look at where he is today! It was the right time for Rafa to leave when he did as the club has moved forward since H and G plus Rafa was removed.

21 Jan 2018 15:37:04
Irish Rover, he said that net spend became an excuse during Rafa’s time and that he made too many bad signings. When your net spend is negative, by nature it means that you are not buying the best players - fact!

It was not an excuse, that was the reality of it. A deal set up for Dani Alves for 12 million and he was given 6 million to buy Pennant.

At first he was given money and brought in the quality players I mentioned in my earlier post. Towards the end Hicks and Gillet were intent on bleeding the club dry and barely released any funds.

Rafa put his job on the line to expose what they were doing. Hence his final season was sketchy to say the least. With funds Rafa has a good eye for a player and that would still be the case were he here today. He might not have bought Salah and Mane, but who knows, and I can guarantee he would have bought better defenders and had a better balance between the two. That is what wins you trophies at the highest level and people seem to forget that and only remember his final season.

Not only that, he gave Liverpool supporters probably the greatest night in their history, with a team that included Djimi Traore and Harry Kewell.

21 Jan 2018 15:58:39
Rafa never got the signings he wanted, so Howe does your argument work. Hicks and Gillet leveraged club so they could buy it as an asset to themselves, with the club (including supporters), paying the loan and interest.

I would have bought it myself if I’d known I didn’t have to put any of my own money in, but could then sell it for profit.

Rafa’s stance against them was one of the factors in FSG being able to oust them. God forbid that they were still here today or we wouldn’t have had Klopp, VVD, Salah etc.

Say what you like about Rafa but we were always playing in the final stages of Europe’s major competition, winning it, another final, semi and quarter finals. Since Rafa, we have struggled to even qualify for it.

Klopp has done brilliantly, as have FSG, in an era when it is even end more difficult to get top 4, since Chelsea and city got sugar daddies.

21 Jan 2018 16:00:13
Klavy, let go of the past. Liverpool is in a much better situation now then back then.

And if you want to diagree then that is your prerogative :-)

21 Jan 2018 16:55:59
It was you who mentioned the past maxlfc in your first post. So we’re in a better state now? Didn’t realise we won the Champions League last season. I must have missed that.

21 Jan 2018 16:59:03
Rafa is a lovely man and he was a great tactician but how can anyone defend his transfer record? In 6 years he signed (off the top of my head! )

Itandje, Cavalieri, Carson, Johnson, Degen, Josemi, Kromkamp, Kyriakgos, Ayala, Barragan, Skrtel, Paletta, Insua, Dossena, Aurelio, Hobbs, Idriza, Pellegrino, Aquilani, El Zhar, Riera, Pennant, Leto, Zenden, Gonzalez, Babel, Voronin, N'Gog, Keane, Nunez, Morientes, Crouch, Bellamy.

I will hazard a guess that there is loads I'm forgetting about. It was atrocious. That is 33 failed signings in 6 years. None of those players were the quality we needed to push on. That being despite the fact they all got paid first team salaries.

He made a few decent signings. Reina, Arbeloa, Agger, Alonso, Mascherano, Garcia, Kuyt, Torres etc stick out. That is 8 players though in 6 years. The likes of Benayoun, Sissoko and Lucas also did well in spells, although Lucas came good under Dalglish long after Rafa was gone. That still only makes XI at a push though.

Let's not forget that he tried to replace Alonso with Gareth Barry though, and then turned to Aquilani 12 months later! You can't praise him for signing Xabi, and then ignore the fact that Rafa is the reason Xabi left. He never properly replaced Finnan or Riise either and he never managed to sign any decent wingers. Kuyt did a job, but we drew so many games due to a lack of width in the full back and wing areas.

I'm not saying he was all bad by any stretch. He put Liverpool back on the map in Europe and went close in league once. He was certainly the best manager we've had in the last 27 years (bar wasn't exactly set high though), but anybody defending his transfer record is in a dream land. He signed about 10 players a season and usually on 1 or 2 came good.

I get it that he never was allowed to buy his first choice targets but come on lads. Who on earth didn't want David Villa, Dani Alves, David Silva etc. His other first choice targets he didn't get include Stefan Jovetic and Gareth Barry. Aside from that, if you went out to the shop to get your Mrs Milk, and came home with Carling because there was no milk, she'd call you every name under the sun and tell you that you should've just saved the money!

Really don't understand why Max is taking a beating here. Nor do i understand why it matters if he read a particular book or how long he's been a fan. Anybody can spin a story to suit there viewpoint. You only had to use your own eyes to see Rafa and a very poor hit rate in the transfer market.

21 Jan 2018 17:36:08
MK, just shows how good a manager Rafa was to win a Champions League and get to another final with all those poor players you mention.

A lot of clubs may well have wanted David Silva, David Villa, Dani Alves etc, but Rafa had deals set up for them due to his Spanish connections and just needed backing.

I am not advocating that he should replace Klopp although he would be my choice if JK ever left, but I think the disrespect towards him from some on here is not needed.

21 Jan 2018 17:49:20
Max, they leveraged the club to the banks to give rafa money for transfers?
There venture capitalists, they borrowed from the banks to buy the club and everything else in between, I'd love to go to town on you about this but it won't be shown, but the general gist would be your talking nonsense.

And your net spend comment, again nonsense, if you sell couthinho and salah for a combined £300 million say, then buy van dijk and keita for a £130 million, the club are £170 million ahead and don't give it to the manager, by your rational the manger signed two players for £130 million and should be judged on it totally ignoring the surplus? Nonsense complete and utter garbage.

21 Jan 2018 17:41:58
How many Champions league finals have we reached since Rafa left? How many times have we matched his 86 points tally in 2009.

21 Jan 2018 18:07:08
"Anybody can spin a story to suit there viewpoint"

I would certainly agree with that statement MK, lol.

21 Jan 2018 18:16:22
He won the CL with somebody else's squad Klavy. Only players who had any impact that he signed were Alonso and Garcia. You are right though. He was an incredible tactician. I think he's one of the best in the world, but in the transfer market he is average at best.

It is too easy to say "he wanted this player and that player, but the money wasn't there". I'm sure Roy Hodgson would've liked Messi and Iniesta, but he ended up signing Cole and Poulsen because we couldn't afford better options. So do we let him off and say "well if the money was there he would've signed better players". You make the best of what you are given and the fact is that Rafa made us progressively worse throughout his tenure because he wasted money and he signed too many average players instead of just signing one good player.

His biggest problem though, is his inability to just focus on his job. He gets too easily distracted arguing with hierarchy and conspiracy theories. He did it here, and now he is doing it at Newcastle. In some ways, I am grateful. Because he alerted the world to the problems behind closed doors. On the other hand though, he clearly let it distract him from his main job.

Rafa deserves utmost respect. He is a legend for Istanbul alone, and the charity work he did locally and still does now only endears him further. He is a red through and through. Max hasn't really disrespected him though, just questioned his transfers and said he was part of the problem in his opinion.

Ultimately, Rafa joined us and won the Champions league. Then the FA cup. Then a final. Then fell short of winning anything. Then fell short of the top 4. That is a very clear, albeit it gradual, downward spiral.

Respect him for sure, but don't paper over the cracks. He spent a fortune and our wage bill was so huge when FSG took over that they had to foot a bill of around £1m a week losses. Yes, H&G failed commercially, but Rafa committed to a huge wage bill that was well beyond the clubs means at a time where he had total control of everything football related. I love him and i was sad to see him go. He perhaps deserved a couple more seasons to turn it around under better ownership. He's also won trophies since he left the club and only took the Newcastle job because he loves the North of England, and not because he had no better options. So i kind of disagree with max's comment "look at where he is now". That was brave of Rafa to go to that shambolic club, if anything.

People do have a glossy memory of Rafa though. I remember drawing a game 1-1 with Birmingham (i think) in the year we were chasing the title, and Rafa subbed off Torres. Even Gerrard and a few other players were looking at the bench in total disarray and Torres's face clearly said he had no idea why he was being subbed. Not to mention his rotation all year round to try and keep his huge squad happy.

Great man. Great tactician. Liverpool Legend. He's a flawed genius though.

21 Jan 2018 18:52:50
This is my last post on the subject, as I haven’t got the time. We will have to beg to differ. So, Rafa subbed Torres and Gerrard wasn’t happy? Since when was Gerrard the Manager? Klopp subbed Can against Man City and we conceded 2 goals. The average supporter doesn’t know what goes on behind the scenes, and Can was ill.

You’re probably too young to remember it MK, but Rafa subbed Gerrard in a derby game and replaced him with the virtually unknown Lucas, who had a shot handled on the line in the last minute to get the match winning penalty.

I’ll say you were right when Klopp wins the Champions League, which I sincerely hope he does by the way, as I support the team not just the Manager.

21 Jan 2018 18:56:31
Rafa never got the signings he wanted and was also completely obsessed with signing players in general. That might have something to do with why he wasnt allowed to sign any more. You can find multiple articles on google vaguely outlining the insanity of his transfer policy over 6 years. The amount of players signed is cited from anywhere from 45 up to 100. He signed so many £1 million and free transfer players to fill up the squad for no reason. It was always about quantity over quality and rafa apologists cannot hide that. Hicks and gillette may not have had all the money in the world but they still spunked £20 million on aquilani and the like - they were just the wrong players. I give rafa credit for his champions league results but his league performance and transfer policy, however much money he had to spend, wasnt the best. While he bought alonso, he also wanted to replace him with gareth barry because he could play left back. It is a double edged sword my friend.

21 Jan 2018 19:18:56
Where have i said Klopp is a better manager than Rafa? You've made that up completely. I literally just said that Rafa is our best manager in the last 27 years. 2 years and 2 months of that, Klopp has been in charge.

I do think Klopp will go on to be more successful than Rafa was (eventually), but he's proven nothing yet and right now my prediction is just that; a prediction. We have improved in league each year under Klopp so far, but we nearly won 2 trophies in his first season and haven't got close since. So Klopp needs to go one step further and win a trophy to prove that he isn't taking us backwards as well.

I wouldn't swap Klopp for Rafa because i think looking to the past to improve your future tends to go wrong in most cases and Rafa proved he wasn't good enough to win the league for us across 5 seasons. Klopp has had 2 so far and if in the next 3 he also hasn't won the league, i guarantee you he will bite the bullet and we'll give someone else the chance to do it.

21 Jan 2018 19:18:56
Where have i said Klopp is a better manager than Rafa? You've made that up completely. I literally just said that Rafa is our best manager in the last 27 years. 2 years and 2 months of that, Klopp has been in charge.

I do think Klopp will go on to be more successful than Rafa was (eventually), but he's proven nothing yet and right now my prediction is just that; a prediction. We have improved in league each year under Klopp so far, but we nearly won 2 trophies in his first season and haven't got close since. So Klopp needs to go one step further and win a trophy to prove that he isn't taking us backwards as well.

I wouldn't swap Klopp for Rafa because i think looking to the past to improve your future tends to go wrong in most cases and Rafa proved he wasn't good enough to win the league for us across 5 seasons. Klopp has had 2 so far and if in the next 3 he also hasn't won the league, i guarantee you he will bite the bullet and we'll give someone else the chance to do it.

21 Jan 2018 20:10:18
You seriously think Klopp can win 2 CL's in this or the next 2 seasons? Or 1 CL and a Premier League title in the same time?

21 Jan 2018 21:36:48
If we don't believe, who will? And more importantly, what is the point?

21 Jan 2018 23:49:57
Rafa moved Carra to centre back! Just saying😀.

22 Jan 2018 02:33:27
MK, Rafa made a few 'decent' signings? some of those are amongst our best players in 30 odd years Agger, Alonso, Masch, Torres, Reina. In amongst the worst signings you suggested there were loads decent - not great but it just didn't work out: Aurelio, Skrtl, riera, zenden. bellamy, babel, crouch they weren't bad players and some did pretty well for us. the rest looking at them we barely paid anything for and this was what Rafa had to resort to when asked to build a squad at a fraction of the cost of our rivals.

He also got us to another CL final 2 years later as well as semi finals. we were ranked Number 1 in Europe for a while as well. Not bad with his awful purchases. imagine what he could have achieved if he was backed with his primary targets.

{Ed0333's Note - Swish I think I’d go as far as calling Aurelio a great player. Certainly when he played I thought he was great. Maybe not a great in the legendary sense but as I say I thought he was a great player.

22 Jan 2018 09:17:32
I’d agree on that ed, if he could have stayed injury free he would have been a key player for us for years.

21 Jan 2018 13:47:07
Rumour coming out that Liverpool are using their talks with inter (regarding sturridge) as an excuse to try and swoop for Icardi.
with sturridge leaving for a loan until the end of the season.
With Icardi coming the other way
(In the summer) then making Daniel's stay in Italy permanent.

Wow.
Any one else. How do you even begin to try and persude a guy like him. 🤣.

21 Jan 2018 14:04:01
Can’t see Icardi enjoying being rotated. Won’t happen imo.

21 Jan 2018 14:29:05
There are some mental rumours this year my personal favourite is that Kroos is fed up with Madrids inability to Mach Barcelona this year and now wants to team up with Jurgan Klopp at Liverpool 😂 It's like the journos have let their kids write the stories this year.

21 Jan 2018 14:31:20
Wouldn't touch that guy. He is a piece of s%$@ . No matter what he does on the pitch, off the pitch he is still an @$%^%$^. I got some friends in liguria and I have heard stories from them of his crass behaviour. Not to mention he makes giggs look like a child.

21 Jan 2018 15:20:55
I heard icardi is the mystery top player we’ve been looking at! May not be for January but Keep an eye on that one.

21 Jan 2018 12:33:59
Will be interesting if Sturridge does leave.

I know he hasn't played at all really but it would be quite brave to lose two attacking players in Studge and Couts in the same window without bringing in some backup.

I rate Solanke and Woodburn highly but I wonder whether Klopp is also prepared to trust them, Ings is kind of an unknown quantity.

I'm not going to ask the eds opinion as they get the same questions everyday but it will be interesting to see how much trust Klopp has in his current bunch, especially with some of the teams around us now strengthening.

21 Jan 2018 13:16:22
I see where you are coming from George, but Sturridge doesn't get any game time now, and Couts wasnt missed against City, we have enough players to cover, best to wait till the right player is available, maybe the summer, to replace Couts, hard to get the right player, at the right price in this window .

21 Jan 2018 13:21:24
I think it would leave us short. What if we get a long-term injury up front or Firmino ends up with a ban? Surely we'd need a replacement if Sturridge went?

21 Jan 2018 13:25:22
It is fair to say that Sturridge will never be the player again we saw in 13/ 14.

LFC will not stand in Sturridges way if he finds a suitable solution.

Same with Ings. I do not believe any of these two have a future at the club. Both are (no pun intended) injury crocks. LFC will be happy to make space on the wage bill for new arrivals by seeing them moved on.

Not being horrible about it but that is the way I see it.

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool are standing in the way due to the ridiculous asking price.}

21 Jan 2018 13:26:24
Think we are well stocked offensively in Firmino, Salah, Mane, AOC, Lallana and solanke.

21 Jan 2018 13:44:55
What happens if Firmino picks up a long term injury, who will cover?

21 Jan 2018 13:49:05
I think Ings will only go if sturridge stays I think we will keep one as third choice striker.

21 Jan 2018 13:49:41
They came in the same window and them leaving in the same window will seriously help my OCD.

21 Jan 2018 13:50:32
Ed002, understand what you are saying but just saying that the club will be happy to see Ings and Sturridge go. Well that is what I am thinking. Obviously what they value both players at is a sticking point but LFC want rid.

{Ed002's Note - If Liverpool "want rid" then they should put realistic values on players.}

21 Jan 2018 14:05:40
@ HessleRed3009

Solanke, Mane, Salah.

We have a big squad. Firmino is not a natural striker and their have been no signs that Klopp wants one.

21 Jan 2018 14:20:41
Also if Sturridge left doesn’t mean Klopp can’t buy another attacking player if he wants to.

21 Jan 2018 14:31:02
I don't even know what realistic is anymore, £20 mil?

21 Jan 2018 14:32:31
Agree Ed002. But that is the case with all clubs?

What Liverpool need to improve on is negotiation, ins and outs. As it is, we had no room to negotiate with the VVD deal because of the antics when LFC made an allegal approach.

Southampton are smiling yet again.

{Ed002's Note - It is not true for all clubs.}

21 Jan 2018 11:42:07
Right, so in a previous post Ed001 mentioned payment terms for VVD. LFC obviously did not pay the transfer fee in one lump sum.

Same with Coutinho, there is no way Barcelona would have paid out his fee in one shot.

That is why Ed002 refuses to discuss money.

Coutinho's fee is not going to be paid in one lump sum and then you get pundits and fans who think the club immediately have £140m to spend or whatever final LFC and Barcelona negotiated for Coutinho.

So no, just because Coutinho went for a mouthwatering amount does not mean LFC have that mouthwatering amount transferred in the bank.

My message to all LFC fans. Forget about the fee of the player. If the club can afford the transfer transaction then they will sign on the dotted line.

Finally, Van Dijk's fee also was not paid in one lump sum so if you see sky or any other newspaper reporting that LFC have broken their transfer record spending £100m on player X then forget about the fee being reported.

Just think of the fee as buying a car over x amount of months.

Unless you have the cash to burn, none of us are likely to pay cash up front for a new car unless you have a bank account which can accommodate it.

Rant over.

21 Jan 2018 12:03:46
The clubs will be aware of this, however, so it can be used knowing that money will be coming in to pay for another player in instalments. It may not be in one lump, but selling clubs still know that money will be coming.

21 Jan 2018 12:17:06
Yes but whoever we buy with the 140m the payments will be spread out too. It all works out the same in the end the lions share upfront and payment plan for the rest the same as every transfer in and out so if we bought x for 70m we’d pay 40 and 30 in a payment plan etc etc. In the end we have 140m coming in and whatever going out so stop being pedantic we all know these things aren’t instant but the facts are that money is coming and that money is going.

{Ed001's Note - no we wouldn't. We would have less than 140m coming in, as we have to take out all kinds of fees and taxes. Then going out we would pay the fees on top + the initial lump sum is usually raised via a short term loan, which costs in interest.}

21 Jan 2018 12:21:53
Our first installment for VVD was just over £23m and the next 2 payments will be made over the next two years (same amount) . The rest of the fee is add-ons.

21 Jan 2018 12:48:31
I just wish people would stop posting we can by 'these' players with the money Coutinho has been sold for. It is quite laughable.

It does not work that way!

If LFC can afford VVD over the next let's say 3 seasons, transfer fee broken up in installments plus wages, bonuses etc then they would have bought him which they did.

Forget about VVD being bought at whatever amount LFC and Soton agreed upon. If VVD gets sold 2 seasons later then the club will once again decide whether they can afford the next most expensive CB ever over x amount of seasons.

As it has been explained many times over, the Coutinho deal has nothing to do with VVD's arrival.

If the club can afford player X at 100m over the next 5 seasons then they will do the deal. If not, they will walk away.

21 Jan 2018 13:12:20
Yep ed2 has explained the taxes and fees and that too before like I said we all who come here know what’s involved in fees etc there’s no need to be pedantic like I said. But we will get that the same way Barcelona got 198m minus taxes and fees etc etc for Neymar the same as every transfer that ever happens and ever did happen. We can’t be specific because we don’t know the specifics only what the media reports because we don’t have access to the thing 002 does. So let’s say only 120m reaches us after tax and fees (as a random guess) over the course of the payment plan. We will in turn pay taxes and fees on top of any fee and payment plan agreed with and player we buy. So it’ll be less and more that we recive and pay respectively but that’s the way of the world. We’re probably still paying for wijnaldum and salah and mane and Robertson etc the same as we’re probably still recieving the money for players we’ve recently sold like Lucas and skrtel and borini (probably all bad examples) but you get the point.

21 Jan 2018 13:28:22
Wasn’t £105m of Coutinhos fee upfront?

{Ed002's Note - You need to step away from all of the numbers.}

21 Jan 2018 13:36:40
I think Neymar's was exception wasn't it? got the full amount in a single lump whoever paid it.

21 Jan 2018 13:46:29
Jezza, it all comes down to whether LFC can afford the players they buy. Each transfer is individual. If the club can afford Lemar over whatever how many years then they will go ahead and sign the player.

If LFC cannot afford Lemar then they look elsewhere.

It is as simple as that. The money we receive from the Coutinho deal each season has no bearing on whether we can afford the next signing we make. If the club can afford the signing then the deal will be done. If not then tough sh*t.

21 Jan 2018 14:28:09
Well obviously. But 70 goes into 140 how many times max? That means we can afford it. Seriously tho well done for knowing that if we can’t afford a player we can’t buy a player. Now try pointing at your a*se and then try pointing at your elbow ask someone to tell you if you’ve managed it correctly :)

21 Jan 2018 14:36:47
I know, let's all post the same nonsense over and over again about transfer fees.

Jeez, you all need to heed the advice of the eds and leave any monetary talk alone.

All talk of fees just lines the pockets of the tabloids and idiots like sky. They use it to generate custom because any mention of money and like fools we all read it.

You are ruining a really good forum with the same old boring rubbish.

21 Jan 2018 14:43:31
Jezza, £140m for Coutinho over how many years? I bet you know that? Cough Cough.

Barcelona only finished paying Suarez off last season if I can remember correctly.

The VVD deal has to be far more complicated than the Coutinho deal because of how we handled the situation and let me tell you, extremely expensive.

Facts are facts, just because we sold Coutinho does not mean we can go sign another player at the same value as each transfer is individual. If you cannot understand that then maybe have Ed002 explain it to you but unfortunately he does not discuss money.

21 Jan 2018 14:42:13
People like having a quantifiable amount to talk about so they can compare good value (or not) of players. Average Joe certainly doesn't understand ins and outs of football finance so round figures used to stack up as Top Trumps comparisons makes sense. When X is sold for Y, there is this amount left to buy A and B. It may not be true but, if you didn't have any semblance of fees and value, how would you know that Messi is too expensive for Burnley or that Newcastle can't compete financially with Liverpool. My point is, the numbers may all be broadly inaccurate but they do give average Joe some sort of perspective.

Really, it is just that people in large numbers are stupid and will happily believe what is the easiest thing to find out. This, more often than not is what they are selectively told, not what they have had to find out for themselves.

By the way, the only way I feel I am not just average Joe is because of this site. So cheers eds. If you throw enough mud at a wall, eventually some of it sticks.

21 Jan 2018 16:13:35
This was the right post to rrad at 4am. thank ypu and good Night people!

21 Jan 2018 16:41:39
Sorry max you seem to think 70 and 140 are the same. Poor you. I’ll leave you to it kid.

21 Jan 2018 09:40:31
Morning Ed 002.

Have a quick question regarding FFP.

Are UEFA still enforcing this so that clubs can't spend beyond their means? I understand we were investigated back in 2016 I think.

Take for instance City, lots of people saying that they had found a loophole in the system to counter this.

Am I correct in saying City Football Group own or co own 6 clubs over 4 continents, building state of the art accadamies?

Cheers.

{Ed002's Note - (a) Yes, FFP is still being enforced. (b) No, Manchester City did not find a loophole. (c) Yes, City Football Group have ownership or investment in a munber of sides across the world. There is obviously nothoing wrong with that and it is unrelated to FFP.}

21 Jan 2018 09:53:07
Cheers Ed002.

Sorry think I didn’t explain myself. With CFG investing or owning sides across Europe, I could see them using this for finding talent across the globe.

What I meant to say would this be a form of income for them? For instance, I’m sure they would be able to sell players they’d scouted or trained at their acadamy’s For s profit.

I think City are going to become a major force globally ed002

Cheers.

{Ed002's Note - In terms of "schools of excellence" and "football schools" Manchestr City have invested in the Flintstone school in Abu Dhabi Dhu in the same way as Liverpool has invested in a similar venture in Australia and built relationship with third party centres. Chelsea have a whole bunch of football schools around trhe world which they either run themselves or have a relationship with a third party. The same is true of many of the mainland European sides - so it is not simply Manchester City. Ownership of the likes of Girona and NY really has little or no impacty on Manchetser City themselves, but City Football Group are looking to continue to expand.}

21 Jan 2018 11:20:50
Hi Ed002,

Do you see the business model that the City Football Group are taking adopted by others? In that I mean can you see more and more football clubs from across the globe being owned by a a single group?

On the FFP point, are each football club judged individually or will the City Football group be looked at as a whole? Not saying that it would happen, but does football have any form of transfer pricing legislation that would prevent Man City selling one of their fringe players to New York City FC for a massively inflated price to help them pass any FFP rules?

Also, I take it FSG has no plans to buy another other clubs.?

Red Sandman.

{Ed002's Note - (a) Others are already investing in more than one club with RB Leipzig, New York Red Bulls and Red Bull Brasil all under the wing of Red Bull and Red Bull Salzburg being a close cousing (the ownership model having to be changed last year). There is no reason for this not to continue is businesses can find a model that works for thenm commercially and financially. (b) FFP is applicable to clubs, not the owners. I don't get your point about selling players for an inflated price - that is not on the agenda. It is a strange ovbsession that Liverpool fans have about finding ways to cheat. (c) FSG will have learned their lesson from Liverpool and are not looking to invest in any other club.}

21 Jan 2018 11:25:26
Ed, following on from Drogie's ownership question, are there any special rules regarding potential transfers between members of the City Football Group, or for that matter any specific regulations regarding any football clubs owned by a single entity?

{Ed002's Note - The only rule relates to the clubs not being able to meet in the same competition. This arose last year when both RBS and RBL qualified for the Champions League and the question was put to UEFA to see if would consider a rule change - but there was a wider implication (actually two) that would have made it difficult. Regardless, Red Bull adjusted the ownership model for RBS so the problem went away before it was discussed. There is no restriction on transfers.}

21 Jan 2018 11:27:55
“Manchestr City have invested in the Flintstone school in Abu Dhabi Dhu”

That should provide a “bedrock” for the future development. 😄👍.

21 Jan 2018 07:19:07
What if klopp starts migs on Monday? :P
Klopptronics.

21 Jan 2018 07:35:51
He’s already come out and said Jarius is starting.

21 Jan 2018 08:22:05
Does Mignolet now start CL and cup games as no 2 🙈.

21 Jan 2018 11:07:17
Hope not Jayden.

21 Jan 2018 05:22:41
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 21st January 2018

21 Jan 2018 08:59:40
Had to laugh at Malcolm’s dream to play in the premier league. If he comes and plays well for a couple of years that dream will change to ‘ la liga’ no Doubt.

21 Jan 2018 01:37:01
Ed's and reds,
Does anyone remember the last time that a transfer window wasn't this pressured to buy players? Or is this just modern football? It seems like it just becomes more expected to buy players each window.

21 Jan 2018 04:27:07
I think there’s more at steak now- you have 6 teams at the top challenging for the title and the carrot of CL football ( plus the money that comes with it) then you have maybe 7 teams fighting to stay in the league for the same reasons. Teams inbetween have a shot at European football as well. Essentially more opportunity to earn revenue but also so much more to lose if you drop out, hence depending at where you’re at in Jan window will it will reflect how important it is to invest in the window.

21 Jan 2018 05:50:16
I think a couple of teams are panicking, Arsenal and Everton in particular and United have taken advantage of an opportunity that’s come their way but I don’t think it’s just this window. We all remember Liverpool panicking when they sold Torres and bought Carroll and there have been other examples, Fulham with Mitroglou and QPR signing Samba spring to mind. It probably feels more pressured because there is more tv coverage and more media reports now than in the past.

21 Jan 2018 08:50:48
Good point smeg, literally can’t switch on phone / tv/ radio/ check email etc without there being transfer speculation .