Liverpool Banter Archive December 21 2017

 

Use our rumours form to send us liverpool transfer rumours.

21 Dec 2017 22:47:32
Cant over emphasise how impressed I have been with Oxlaide Chamberlain since he arrived. Fantastic work rate and enthusiasm, but he is a good genuine guy. The way he immediately stood up for Coutinho when a reporter put phil in an embarassing position, said it all for me.
A few more first picks in the team and he will start flying, his work ethic is perfect.

Hes starting to settle in now and beginning to feel like a valuable player for us.

Well done Ox, keep up the good work.

Believable22 Unbelievable1

22 Dec 2017 13:01:12
Spot on, Tel. I did not want him here cos like many others, he had become stagnant at the Arsene Wenger School of Stagnation. Klopp may have played a blinder on this one as only he saw what he saw in the Ox and tho it is early doors, the very good signs are there to see even from a skeptic like me. He had my full support as soon as he signed and I'm happy Klopp is getting something out of him. Still early doors tho and I hope he plays tonight and gives it to 'em cos men, the Whinger just can't stop taking veiled jibes at him.


21 Dec 2017 20:42:03
Ok Waro, football reasons to support our primary CB right now and build him up as much as possible:

1. He's been the victim of a succession of bad decisions by refs that have unfairly coloured his recent performances.

2. Since he came back from his back problem, our defense has been one of the best in the league and he has been pretty much ever-present in that.

3. It's fairly obvious that he's a player who suffers with confidence but is great when he's riding the high, and considering our squad options right now it's pretty sensible to do what we can to keep that high going.

4. Everyone we play against seems to think they don't need to attack us because they only need one opportunity to score past our recent defense. Our own fans adding to that belief reinforces other teams decision to play like that and ignore their attacking instincts within games (even if it doesn't affect managers decisions, who knows what will affect an individual players decisions mid game), which makes it harder for us to pick up three points than we would in more open games with attacking opportunities.

All footballing reasons to support our player. Frankly, we would all love to see an upgrade on Lovren. But right now, he's what we have and purely for the benefit of LFC's position in the league table, we need to be behind him.

Believable13 Unbelievable7

21 Dec 2017 21:41:27
Lovren is a good player who suffers from unfortunate lapses too often. He has talent but sadly the wild things he does when does them very often lead to goals for the opposition. There is still time to snuff out these bizarre errors and lovren can be very good. let's hope so.


{Ed025's Note - the think is beef....you cant polish a turd mate..

21 Dec 2017 21:45:32
Can't blame the refs mate, put your hands on the back of a player your asking for trouble.


21 Dec 2017 22:06:10
This is the worst defensive unit I’ve seen in a long while.

Lovren has been part of this shambles since the Brendan Rodgers era.


21 Dec 2017 22:36:11
I think our system would show frailties in the very best defenders, if we could find a top notch dm to play with Nabby and hendo/ ox we would leak way less.


21 Dec 2017 22:39:01
most defences are going to struggle when you have the opposition midfield flooding past our midfielders and our defensive line are scrambling. that's kind of what we do to the opposition right.!?


21 Dec 2017 22:43:44
Spot on, Hijkle. Lovren may not be Maldini BUT he can defend and has a lot of ability. It is what is btw his ears that is the problem. He is who we have right now and has been playing well of late along with Klavan with whom he has built a very good partnership as of late and long may it continue. Can we upgrade on him or any of our CB's? Absolutely. But they are who we have now and Klopp has found a way for us to defend as a unit which protects them from being isolated. The constant player bashing needs to end cos it is becoming tedious and pathetically boring.


21 Dec 2017 22:50:45
Disagree Firmane. FYI, there is NO law on the books that says that a defender cannot put his hand on a striker in the box. NONE whatsoever. I was a CF and got mauled all the time by CB's and even I knew that so I stayed on my feet as much as I could. What you posted is complete media nonsense. This happens all the time as strikers and defenders grab on each other all the time. Watch the Chelsea v WH game where Morata and Reid where at each other's throats (10 times less than what Lovs did v Everton) in the box and Morata went down easily and the ref played on. If thqt was the law, why did he play on? Maybe cos it is NOT. The diff. has always been that the ref has to decide if the contact is worth an infringement and sometimes the refs get conned as Lanzini, Niasse and his mate did. That has always been the law on the books. Nothing more.


{Ed025's Note - so what your saying brover is that it is ok to shove a player over in the box?, you do know this is football and not WWF wrestling dont you?, i played in defence myself and knew if i blatantly shoved a forward in our area that there was a good chance i would give away a pen, i dont know who you are trying to convince with that nonsense mate...me...other supporters or yourself?...but your talking through your arse, your a very good poster but on this one your embarrassingly wrong..

21 Dec 2017 23:28:27
All you want from a defender is for them to be a no nonsense defender and consistent.
This is why Lovren will never be rated as a good defender.


21 Dec 2017 23:50:43
It was a soft penalty from a ref that refused a penalty shout in his next game for an identical occurrence,
He can't be correct on both,
IMO no penalty,


22 Dec 2017 01:54:56
It was a penalty, soft or not it was a penalty. Why’re we still talking about it? Lovren comes across as a great fella but a great defender? No. Even a good one? No. The mistakes aren’t isolated incidents he is error prone. He’s not the only one and I appreciate people defending him when he is getting unwarranted threats etc but it cannot be denied he isn't good enough for what the owners/ fans hope the team can achieve.


22 Dec 2017 03:54:51
No it wasn't a penalty - contact was absolutely minimal, the striker threw himself to the floor looking for a penalty (he could of stayed on his feet quite easily), Lovren basically had his hands as a buffer between himself and the player - it was a dive, the ref got conned, it was never a penalty.


{Ed0333's Note - are we still talking about the penalty? Move on peeps. I thought it was a penalty though lol

22 Dec 2017 00:08:32
Ed I think Brover is trying to get over a point when in all games a lot goes off worse than the lovren incident and penalties aren't awarded (by the way lovren is a pillock for doing what he did)


22 Dec 2017 06:44:22
That’s a given Reusch.
The example I used is shirt pulling. A striker is going through and the defender fingers flick his shirt, he goes down and a penalty is given. It’s an infringement in the box.
At the same time a player practically has his shirt ripped off at a corner kick and no penalty is awarded. These incidents happen every game, it’s the reason you can’t rest on a 1 goal lead with any confidence.


22 Dec 2017 13:27:48
That is my point exactly, Seano and Reusch. Lfcder, I did not even know the same ref screwed up the same play in the next game. Not surprised. I do disagree w/ Lovs being a pillock as he did not even make a challenge. People say it was a soft penalty. Well in a big game if it is a softie, you don't give it as it is not clear. Isn't that what the @experts@ tell us? Oh but now that it is Lovren and LFC, the rules changed. Consistency is all we ask for from the refs, is it not?

Ron, I agree with you globally BUT apples to oranges again. Shirt tugs is a clear attempt to infringe on the player's ability to score and if you do that then, you are asking for it. Lovren did NONE of that and again, there is NO rule on the books that says a defender cannot put his hand on the back of a striker to especially if the defender is protecting his goal. What Lewin did is what Vardy, Young and Hazard have been doing for years so nothing new on this front. What is doing my head in is people making up rules to suit their narratives when none of such rules exist.


22 Dec 2017 13:20:35
anywhere else on the pitch and its a foul, but 9 times out of 10 you don't get them but don't put your hands on people and then the ref has no decision to make but that was 3 games ago now so forget about it.


22 Dec 2017 13:23:22
Hjikle, I can give you countless examples of why Lovren is a quite awful defender but you have heard them multiple times before and should have seen them yourself over the years. If we put him up for sale in January there's not one premier league team would touch him, he'd probably go abroad for button's.

The idiot or idiots who threatened him are clowns who hide behind there keyboard and would never have harmed him, but nobody advocates that kind of behaviour, but to gloss over his obvious failings as a defender with these excuses is ridiculous and as I've said before, the player himself would be appalled that people are using this to defend him.

Can you all stop with the derby penalty, it was stonewall penalty and your all making yourselves look bitter and are using it to defend klopp from his terrible team selection on the day, it was a mistake a mistake I hope he will never make again i. e. Next month.


22 Dec 2017 13:27:33
Lovren did not shove Lewin at all. I have seen so many times, it's nauseating. He jumped into Lovren's chest, drew the contact and went down like he took a bullet. We may disagree on that BUT that is just a difference in opinions. Nothing more. Ref Peter Walton said he would not have given a penalty had it been him while Clattenburg said he would. Differences of opinions and nothing more.


22 Dec 2017 16:06:47
Referees do not have an easy job but they chose to do it and are paid well enough. I don’t think the quality of refereeing is gold enough and so many media outlets now have ex referees commenting on every major decision which to be fair to the current crop makes their job a bit more difficult as they have all their choices analysed even deeper.


21 Dec 2017 19:12:09
Big game tomorrow.

Have a feeling Klopp will go with an attack of Firmino, Salah, Coutinho and Mane.

Let's face it, this is not a match based on defence as both teams will be going for it.

Recon our attack will be too much for them. Up the POOL!

Believable18 Unbelievable0

21 Dec 2017 22:51:51
Nah, I think Klopp will play definitely Firmino, Salah and it will be a toss up btw Cou and Mane.


21 Dec 2017 23:23:42
I'm hoping I play, I'm the best in the team. I also hope Mane plays, he's not been himself for a few games now and after been benched in the last game I think he'll want to hit the ground running and prove himself once again (he doesn't have to prove himself to me, he's utterly fantastic imo) . Should he not start it'll baffle me, it could ruin his confidence further which is potentially damaging.

Mane and Salah tomorrow must start, we'll using our counter attack to get Arsenal dealt with in my opinion, so Salah and Mane are needed with their pace and brutality in front of goal.


22 Dec 2017 12:39:10
Agree 100% Salah. good luck for the game mate!


21 Dec 2017 17:37:20
Hello all,

Warning, super long and all over the place post.

First I would like to say that although we could be doing better this year I am generally happy about the way this season is going. We are currently 4th in the league and in the round of 16 in the European, which we have not done in a long time. As I am bored again at work I thought I would share a few thoughts and ask a question from the eds.

1) I do not understand any of the klopp criticism in regards to rotation. Last year we were flying to start but around this time our squad became tired and thin and we dropped points way to easily. This year klopp in my opinion has done a fantastic job of using the squad to make changes that still keep our team strong but let's players rest. I think we are already seeing the benefits, and with a bit more luck at Everton no one would even be mentioning this.

2) our squad is the deepest I've seen in my life of supporting LFC, and for me that is because since klopp has arrived our transfer business has improved greatly. They all haven't been successful, but mane, Salah, ox, dom, Gini, even klavan have made an impact and the drop from our first 11 to our bench is not as great as is in the past.

3) klopp is learning. Klopp is by no means perfect, and has made his fair share of mistakes, but over time he seems to be adjusting. If you go back to last season the media could not stop insulting us on how we don't beat the lower teams and that we can't play klopps style all year (they were not wrong) . This season we have not only beat the lower teams but have done so in a impressive fashion. We also can now play klopps style as we are rotating to keep players fresh.

4) cannot be more excited for the champs, we may not be the best or most consistent team, but on any day we can beat anyone and I really just can't wait to see Liverpool back on the stage that historically has separated us from all other English clubs, not saying we are going to win it but hey maybe we can surprise a few people.

Question:not to dive deep into Salah or Phil or emre, but we do seem to have an underlying problem that although we are not necessarily a selling club, we are not a top elite club anymore when it comes to status of success and attraction of players. We seem to be a step below the Madrids, Barca, psg, byern, and sadly even the mancs. My question is what do you think needs to happen in order for Liverpool to get back to a place where players come and think this is the highest level possible and even if a Barcelona comes it is not a step up. Is is that we need to be more consistent in Europe, is it that we need to pay higher wages or bonuses, do we need a better or more attractive squad, do we need to re-adjust how we treat players? I know I am biased, but if I'm a player in this Liverpool team I am not going anywhere. Imagine being in the Liverpool squad that brings back that league title, or being in a Liverpool squad that is back fighting in Europe. The passion of this club to me is unparalleled and I have never even seen it at a time when we were really flying.

YNWA,
Elrobbenino.

Believable10 Unbelievable1

21 Dec 2017 18:53:51
Er win stuff consistently?


21 Dec 2017 20:29:03
For me, we need be more commercially successful, and win trophies so we are in a position to pay higher wages. Most footballers only care about money. That's a fact. Some might pretend they don't, but put the right offer in front if them and they'll literally go and play in League 2 for Notts County!

However, we can't afford to take a shortcut like City and Chelsea did. They spent money until they were competing regularly and even now, City still aren't sustainable. We can't do that. We need to adopt the Dortmund, Atletico, Leicester, Monaco etc approach. We should market our selves as being the best stepping stone to the elite clubs. That way we'll attract the best youngsters and have a shot at winning titles. Once we're consistently winning, then we'll be in a position to say, "right, we're not a stepping stone now". Our stance on Coutinho will be very damaging to attracting future stars if we carry on. We're just showing that we will block our players from making a step up to achieve their dream move. Did Dortmund do that with Dembele? Did Monaco do that with Mbappe? Did Leicester do it with Kante? Did Atletico do that with Costa?

We should advertise ourselves as the club who will get you your move to Real Madrid, Chelsea, Jucentus, Man City or Barcelona. Use Alonso, Arbeloa, Sterling, Torres, Mascherano, Suarez, Coutinho, Can, Salah etc as examples. That way we can attract the next crop of best young talents and one day hopefully step up to an elite level ourselves, so we are the dream move!

It's either that or just hope for a Sugar daddy to turn up and buy our way to the top. I'd rather do it the hard way. It'll be more rewarding and nobody can try and take it away from us at the end of it. This is all just my opinion though. I just feel as though forcing players to stay against their wishes does nothing to boost your reputation as an employer amongst players.


21 Dec 2017 23:56:50
Look at the state of Monaco after selling their players MK.


22 Dec 2017 00:18:43
Yeah, second in their domestic league and now a highly desirable destination for the best young players in Europe such as Tielmans? Terrible state 😉.


22 Dec 2017 02:02:27
It is a poor league though and wasn’t Tielmans a wonder kid a few years back but most clubs decided against signing him? It looks like they’re team may well be picked apart again soon. I agree we can’t quite attract the cream of the crop but being a ‘selling club’ hasn’t really served us too great. I appreciate when Barcelona and real come knocking Hispanic players would prefer to go and you can’t really stop it but it seems clubs of late are gaining some of the control back. We need a working foundation, whether that’s consistent CL qualification or a few trophies I don’t know but we need to find or own way. No two clubs are the same we don’t have crazy money, although the owners provide sufficient sums, we have some great young players but not quite ready to influence too much yet (barring Gomez) I’m happy with the direction the clubs going.


21 Dec 2017 17:04:50
Coutinho out bale in? If he does go he could be a suitable replacement on the cheap.

Believable1 Unbelievable9

{Ed002's Note - No, but Real Madris would be open to including Bale in a deal for Salah.}

21 Dec 2017 17:15:23
Bale has passed his peak IMO.


21 Dec 2017 17:34:15
Surely we're not daft enough for such a deal. I agree Ron, he's way past it.


21 Dec 2017 17:46:34
He played pretty well that one game that he wasn’t injured.


21 Dec 2017 17:47:40
I can think of nothing worse than signing an over rated, injury prone, self absorbed muppet who has previously said he would never play for Liverpool; to replace the best goal scoring wide forward in Europe.

Like seriously, I'd rather play Sheyi Ojo. At least he'd put a shift in. Before his loans he was putting some great performances in for us at 18 years old. Anyone remember that cross against Chelsea to set up Benteke? Anybody who can find Benteke with a cross could find the lost city of Atlantis.

How has Bale gained so much support? He has been bang average since the first half of the 2015/ 16 season. And i mean really, really average. In a team built for smashing teams off the park, in a league where 14/ 20 teams are cannon fodder, he has looked like a Real Madrid B player at best.

He can't even get a game ahead of a 33 year old Ronaldo with less league goals this season than Glen Murray. Nor can he get a game ahead of the king of being over rated; Benzema. But worst of all, he can't even dislodge Isco who his basically just a show pony with a great name.

Dear god, please do not even consider Gareth Bale. I'd still take John Barnes over Bale and he must be 50 by now!

I can't think of a bigger waste of money. Ojo is literally as good as the current Gareth Bale. He's fallen that far. If anybody thinks I'm joking, watch Bale in El Classico (assuming he even makes the bench) and you'll see what i mean. I'm amazed Wales even pick him because frankly, I'd rather play Vokes or Kanu up front.

I've got Welsh heritage, but i can't stand Bale. He's the personification of a prima donna. Just look at his bloody hair. Just because you move to Spain doesn't mean you have to pretend you're Spanish! He's so focused on his image and financial wellbeing that he's forgotten he's a footballer.


21 Dec 2017 19:04:16
I think you need to calm down with your criticism of Bale Adam.

He wouldn’t be a good idea due to his injury record but his ability is not under question.

Again, I’m not advocating his signing but you’re a bit strong in your criticism there.


21 Dec 2017 19:08:07
It’s a very complex question as to what puts your club in the top bracket. In the PL Man Utd, Chelsea and City are in that bracket, with Arsenal just below them and us just below Arsenal - in my opinion. Man Utd got there with a combination of good business, and playing everyone off the park for 20 years. Chelsea and City have got there through firstly oil money, but they have then used that money well, and also run their clubs incredibly well, by people who really know their onions.

People tend to have very short memories in football. Not long ago the big four was United, us, Arsenal and Chelsea. City were in the 2nd division and Chelsea were lucky to get a good cup run. The only thing that changed City and Chelseas fortunes was rich owners.

In fairness to both City and Chelsea, they have run their clubs exceptionally well since they won the lottery, which is more than we can say about ourselves.

We have spent a huge amount of money, so we could have been up there with United in the group of top clubs, but due to bad spending, poor decision making and bad previous ownership, we find ourselves where we are.

The good news is that we do pay good wages, and are prepared to spend big, but we must be cleverer about what we spend it on. One of the things I like about Klopp is that he doesn’t want to spend where it isn’t necessary.

I believe that one if the biggest pulls we have with players is simply our fan base. We have the best fans in the world, simple as that. Players like to play for us. Ex players will always be supporters, and it’s down to the fans. Thiery Henry has often said that there was only 1 other team in England he would have played for and it was Liverpool, because of their support.

The support that a club has can help keep a team up there in that top group, and may be just as important as a whole sack of oil money - but money will always help!


21 Dec 2017 19:14:58
Your right MK, no wonder they want rid of him mate, he's bloody useless. To be honest though even when he was in his peak i never rated him as many others did, he never did it for me, he was good at best, world class? far from it.

I think the status of been at Real Madrid got to his head and suddenly he thought he was the best thing since sliced bread, nah not for me. You think of him at Spurs, he was alright but nothing outstanding not for the money they spent on him. When you compare when he was at his best to Firmino, Salah, Coutinho (when on form), Hazard, David Silva etc the list goes on, he comes nowhere near them in my opinion.


21 Dec 2017 19:23:43
Agreed Salah. He has had 2 good seasons in his career. His last at Tottenham and his first at Real Madrid. The rest have been anywhere between above average and terrible.

He's so over rated and with the injuries he's had he'll start losing his pace in next few years. Without his pace, he is nothing. He has no other attributes other than a decent free kick. He can score from range if he has 5 shots a game but he relies 100% on his pace to work the space for a shot. He's not bad in the air either, but again, that spring in his leap will desert him soon.

He's a goal scorer who doesn't score anymore. He offers nothing else to his team.


{Ed025's Note - i think hes great, if liverpool signed him he would be the best player you would have ever had in your history..

21 Dec 2017 19:35:10
Easy 25. Joe Allen was better!


{Ed033's Note - Joe 90 would have been even better.

21 Dec 2017 19:53:10
Not sure Bale or Isco are as bad as you say MK 😂 They are still in the top bracket of players on world football.

However that's being said, I do agree with you. I'd rather keep Salah than have Bale. Thanks but no thanks.


21 Dec 2017 19:50:58
ed025 can i have some of the stuff you're smoking? :)


{Ed025's Note - the police would lock us both up tony.. :)

21 Dec 2017 20:26:40
Bale is a very good player, held back by injuries. To suggest that certain players would be ahead of a fit Bale at Madrid is nonsense. Would i take him at Liverpool? No, but purely based on his awful injury record and certainly not on his ability.


21 Dec 2017 20:32:14
MK, is this the same Bale you are talking about, who carried Wales to the Euro semi finals. The same Bale who most Welsh fans think that if he wasn't injured for that semi, then Wales would have won. Is it the same Bale who has 2 CL winners medals.


21 Dec 2017 19:01:54
Even if we were to consider it should Salah push for a move Bale gets paid about double our top earner, I think ed02 may be a little tongue in cheek here.


21 Dec 2017 21:49:09
I'm sorry i have to agree on bale, if that was true about his shooting then any quick player would score every game. In the last few seasons for Spurs he carried them to the CL, the hattrick against inter, his finishing was pinpoint, and his performances in a very average Wales side. He is a good footballer. Salah is better at the moment, but a fully fit bale, is up there.


21 Dec 2017 22:54:55
Sorry, I'll pass on Bale as he is severely weakened due to his injuries even tho he would add star power to our team. I'll keep Salah, thank you very much.


21 Dec 2017 23:40:51
I’m pretty sure Bale said in an interview a while back that he didn’t like Liverpool and would never play for them.


22 Dec 2017 02:08:07
Bale is a luxury player, very good but past his best. He couldn’t hack the premier league anymore physically his body couldn’t take it in my opinion. His next move will be Italy if he has sense.


21 Dec 2017 15:44:40
I have a feeling we are going to tonk Arsenal with a bag full of goals. I am going for 5 - 1

Now should i put a fiver on that?

Believable1 Unbelievable9

{Ed025's Note - save you money mikey, liverpool will beat arsenal imo but it will be a lot tighter than that mate..

21 Dec 2017 15:57:07
I think so, Ed. Mikey, Arsenal at home, are no joke this season vs the top 6 and Utd had a GK standing on his head, to thank for their win so just chill out a bit cos it will be a tough game.


{Ed025's Note - i agree mate..

21 Dec 2017 16:19:58
maybe it is the holiday season, and that i have had a scotch; but I have faith; i reckon they will feel they can get at us, and we can counter them with lightning speed.

I have faith. But will keep my money in my wallet.


{Ed025's Note - good idea mikey..

21 Dec 2017 16:21:13
I'm thinking another high scorer. 4-2 either way, depending on who gets ahead first and forces the opposition to take risks. Hopefully it'll be in our favour!


{Ed025's Note - im sure you lot think its rugby with your predictions.. :)

21 Dec 2017 16:32:38
It’s going to be a lot tougher than the reverse fixture.


21 Dec 2017 17:12:55
We have scored at least 3 in our last 5 away games Ed, I think we have been getting spoilt lately and may be getting a little carried away. That said it doesn't look the tightest game on paper and there could well be plenty of goals either way.


21 Dec 2017 18:56:01
I am more concerned about Swansea.


21 Dec 2017 22:55:46
Spot on, Mikey B.


22 Dec 2017 02:10:19
If we score early it’ll be a spanking, the longer we go without taking the leader the harder it’ll be to get one, attacking wise we’re far better but that wa strike about spurs too, a mistake or two later and we get a drumming. It’s one of them hard to predict games. I did see Mersin predict a 2.1 arsenal win which I don’t see myself I’m confident we’ll do it but score lines I couldn’t guess.


21 Dec 2017 12:23:08
Off to emirates tomorrow - very, very excited and looking forward to seeing our fab 11 - think their attacking game will suit our counter attacks. I'm going for 3-1 to the reds (or off white away kit :)

Believable15 Unbelievable0

21 Dec 2017 13:47:45
If we go out there like our last performance we'll ruin them, I hope it's a good night for you mate :) I'm sure it will be, really confident about this one.


21 Dec 2017 13:53:40
Thanks Salah - hoping you are fit, start and score a hat trick!


21 Dec 2017 14:09:40
Have a good time at the game and hopefully, we rip them. BUT most importantly, get home safe my friend.


21 Dec 2017 17:51:39
Very jealous!
Away at Arsenal on a Friday night is going to be awesome mate. Hope we get the win and your smashed in London partying until Sunday haha.


21 Dec 2017 18:13:46
Thanks BRover!


21 Dec 2017 19:35:44
Thanks FC8 - I’m going with my brother who is a massive arsenal fan so we had better win or it’s going to be a painful night out in London lol.


21 Dec 2017 20:26:19
Have a great night fella. Go paint the town RED!


21 Dec 2017 20:57:55
Thanks Pez!


21 Dec 2017 12:13:20
The human nature of the modern fan.

Now i won't for one second claim that i am above all this as i do swing emotionally from happiness to despair most games. however as a number of times the ed's have sighed at how we react each week i thought i would give my two cents on 3 main issues i have.

the fickle fan

no one knows where he was first created however, for as long as i can remember we have been subject to fans going from "we are going to win the league" to we "are the worst team to play in the premier league" (i say this as an extreme but you get the picture) .

We are so quick to throw away all confidence in a player with one moment of madness. we look at Moreno a player who has significantly improved he has an awful game against Sevilla and everyone is calling for his head.

Lovren, not for a second am i saying he hasn't warranted criticism for his play, but in the everton game bar the unfortunate penalty can you really put him at any fault he played and he defended and defended well. yet people were calling for his head due to one moment of some could say naivety, but i think it was unfortunate whilst he shouldn't be that close to a player heading away from goal he was also jumped into. against west brom he played well dealing with rondon who isn't the smallest of players to deal with and kept him quiet for the majority of game. against bournemouth he scored a cracking goal which a lot of players would rarely go for as they are afraid of being hurt, not him he is someone who, regardless of if he messes up, will give his all and try his hardest for the club. so in all yes he does deserve criticism from now and then but a witch hunt and escape goat is unfair.

exhibit B our games against Everton and West Brom. both easily winnable games that we should of won. i read after those from various people saying we aren't worthy of challenging for the top, our team is a joke and this rotation is a waste of time. the list could go on! in looking at the big picture yes it was 4 points dropped but firstly against everton we dominated 80% of the game with fine margins against us, we could argue all we liked about the penalty and the mane miss, but at the end of the day the team just couldn't get that definitive goal.

deadwood/ cast offs

this is something as well i don't know where it came from. maybe football manager/ maybe fifa but to call someone that is very inhumane. yes they maybe a player who isn't considered for the first team or not at the level we need but to call them that is rude. as i saw people pointing out both Salah and Coutinho to name a few were being called this at some point so we should think twice before throwing those words out. now whilst i don't condone laziness from players who just aren't bothered, the nametag isn't warranted. if we look at someone like flanno what we don't see is that i bet he works his socks off in training and maintains his professionalism throughout both on and off the field. does he deserve to have comments of "lets get rid of this deadwood at the club like flanagan" absolutely not! these are people like all of us and deserve more respect than that.

"they get paid enough they should play perfectly each week"

finally we come to this ever growing debate of players get played too much they don't need a rest etc. Christ can people act more envious! let's consider the simple facts these guys have a job contract at Liverpool football club, that is their job no different to all of us working. we all have off days, there may be underlying reasons of why we have not been up to scratch at work this is no different for them.

this leads onto rotation, where did we crumble last year. january when our players were exhausted from the fixture list and were flat. what is klopp doing, rotation are players looking more fresh! yes is this going to pay off in the long run, hopefully its the right thing to do. a few weeks back everyone was complaining salah didn't play the whole game and neither did i think firminho everyone was ranting and raving to then find out that there was a worry of injury. so after everyone had complained there was a logical reason for the decision.

we only see the front cover of this book, we only see the matches. we don't see all the training, the physio, the medical stats, the personal issues other factors that might come into play.

whilst i don't blindly follow Klopp as the ed's say he has his issues and he hasn't brought in a trophy we must believe that what he is doing is what he feels is the best decision.

all i can say is i'm just hoping we get to see an arsenal fan TV classic after Friday to prove that we are better fans than the rest. we used to be the best. let's make enough noise in Anfield so that those boys in Manchester can here us and remember who we are! because every time Anfield is quiet we are slow, yet every time Anfield is bouncing we are crisp, quick and lethal. and i don't think that is a coincidence!

YNWA.

Believable12 Unbelievable2

21 Dec 2017 13:22:21
Excellent post southern!

The origin of this kind of fan can be linked to social media's influence on the game, more media coverage.

When the good content is being consumed its fine, when the content is heavily flawed the opinions are flawed. Same is the case with politics and political opinions these days. Lack of educated and logical opinions being consumed leads to the need for instant results. One more thing social media has given a rise to are the armchair faceless critics, who feel they are immune to being called out on their crap coz they are sitting behind a monitor.


21 Dec 2017 14:16:31
One of the best posts in a long while mate.

We are all guilty at times and let our heads go down (even the beacon of positivity that is Ron Keague, is not immune) . But we don't need to fuel fires against our own players/ club.

We are supporters; supporters who claim to live by the mantra of "YNWA". So whilst we are all susceptible to the odd knee jerk reaction, or moment of anger, let's not forget who we are and what we stand for.


21 Dec 2017 14:31:14
That is the most brilliant post I have read for months on here. Take a bow, Southern mate as you sir, are a star.

In addition to what Waqas added, I think the problem is that our societal discourse has been infested by people who are just interested in being right w/ o going into detail and nuances behind societal issues like politics, sports and the like. There is so much nuance in football that if you do not or cannot look past the obvious, you will simply not get it.

The media ha a lot to do with this as they are paid to promote narratives that either favour or discredit a certain team or manager du jour. The fans are falling for that nonsense w/ o having any desire to engage in any form of critical thinking and trying to know much more than what is bleeding obvious. Parroting other people's comments in the media or in SM makes one a follower, plain and simple. If football was an exact science then how did Utd get smashed by the mighty Bristol City, then?

I love Klopp and admire him first as a person b4 a manager as I have read articles about him and watched subtitled interviews on youtube when he was a younger BVB manager, describing his belief system which govern his managerial decision-making. This has allowed me to have an idea why he makes a certain decion that may look wierd on the outside. Yes, he has not won a trophy and neither did Woy or BR so in what way is he different? He is not perfect and makes mistakes BUT again, who has not? He is taking us forward and that is for now all that matters to me and the trophies hopefully, will come. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Your choice.


21 Dec 2017 14:45:49
thanks all, can't say i reviewed my writing so hoping that it was fully coherent!

i get frustrated as much as every other fan but always take time to look at the bigger picture.

the bigger picture is we are through to the knockout stages of champions league, currently in the top 4 on a 12 match unbeaten run. salah scoring for fun, squad players are putting in shifts!

im just hoping we see a big difference in intensity in games come January versus last year with our team fresh!


also i know he hasn't scored but Solanke does impress me! his work rate, off the ball movement and desire to get involved will be a good base for hopefully a successful career!

being cheeky i really hope we snatch another chelsea player in the summer in the form of Loftus-Cheek think Klopp could work wonders with him!


21 Dec 2017 14:54:16
I don’t know why I’m being dragged into this.

My position is clear, I support my club and manager through thick and thin but there are lines in the sand for everyone which should not be crossed.
Klopp’s derby antics crossed a line for me, it’s as simple as that.


21 Dec 2017 15:04:40
Very good post mate, bravo.


21 Dec 2017 15:06:29
Disagree slightly on point one as being fickle as you say or emotional is the word I would use isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's part of why football is great is the emotional rollercoaster throughout the season. Some take it over the top but I think a more apt group to criticize if we are criticizing groups is the people who will never be happy and moan regardless after games. I would suggest there is a large overlap between these people and the "deadwood" users which I agree is inhumane. All in all good post mate.


21 Dec 2017 15:27:28
Couldnt agree more southern, every fan gets frustrated with dropping points, as long as reaction to losing points is not over the top and well articulated no body has a problem with it. Its when you harp on about the same thing over and over coz some players you want were not bought or the team wasn't setup to your liking is when it gets ridiculous and childish. Or as BROVER said brilliantly just to say I told you so, you are wishing your team drops point.


21 Dec 2017 15:58:51
Ron, who dragged you into this?


21 Dec 2017 16:00:11
Spot on, Waqas. As if people saying I told you so after we DROP POINTS, will suddenly make us a better team and win the PL. Utter delusion, really.


21 Dec 2017 16:02:17
Apologies if you've misunderstood, Ron. I meant it as a compliment in your favour. I was trying to explain that even the best, most die hard fans can have wobbles when they feel disillusioned. It was actually meant in defence of people who moan. I was implying that we are all as guilty as each other at times, and therefore should not judge one another when we are going through a patch of anger.

Completely agree on Loftus cheek by the way, Southern! Literally said the exact same thing at the weekend in a conversion with a mate. He will be done player in a couple of years.


21 Dec 2017 20:30:36
Agree on loftus-cheek mate. Very strong player would be a great signing.


22 Dec 2017 06:22:58
A fan that definitely has there head screwed on, good post.


21 Dec 2017 11:47:36
Good to see a few of the players going out to the school and meeting the young fans. Hopefully they can all do more for the community.

Believable10 Unbelievable0

21 Dec 2017 09:21:37
I am buzzing for tomorrow!

I finish work for 10 days, but more importantly, i kick off the break with a Liverpool game!

Just want to say to everyone in Ed001's charity team; stay off the pudding, cheese and the booze! A shandy is acceptable, maybe two if you're not driving. Make sure you take in lots of vegetables and low fat meats such Turkey and salmon. Oh, and don't go lifting any heavy presents! Last thing we need is you to turn up in worse physical condition than the love child of Fabio Aurelio and Harry Kewell.

Believable9 Unbelievable5

21 Dec 2017 09:43:10
Hope you have a good break MK mate and fingers crossed its kicked off by 3 points tomorrow :)


21 Dec 2017 11:24:50
Cheers Salah. I'm quietly confident about tomorrow night 😉 i reckon you'll bag a brace.

Then we can all have a great Christmas!


21 Dec 2017 11:37:10
I am going for a 0-0 but would be a good point for our top 4 target.


21 Dec 2017 12:28:13
Don't worry fellas, I've got this! I'm confident!


21 Dec 2017 12:33:29
Really important game I think. Would be good to open up a gap from arsenal.
I do think the way arsenal play suits us so I'm going for a 2-1 win!


21 Dec 2017 12:38:29
Have a nice one, MK. I too, am looking forward to the game tmrw. The pressure in the end, is on Arsenal while we will be hungry to get a win as well as we have owned them of late and they simply can't beat us right now. In the end, it is up to us, as has always been.


21 Dec 2017 16:25:15
Cheers Brover. You too!


21 Dec 2017 17:27:10
I cannot promise I will stick within your drinking restraints MK.
Ed1 might need to put me on a Tyson fury style exercise plan after Christmas.


21 Dec 2017 07:20:12
Interesting point from Ed001 about Coutinho - especially for those of us who can't see the games but just listen to them, see the highlights and read the reviews. Cheers.

(So, effectively, Coutinho is "shopwindowing") .

Believable1 Unbelievable0

21 Dec 2017 07:50:21
Isn't the problem with coutinho inconsistency. The same problem he's had since he joined Liverpool.


21 Dec 2017 12:39:36
Hugh, it no longer is. It is the fact that he does not wanna be here and to some extent, is playing like it as he no longer tracks back and gets stuck in like he used to, something many of us loved about him. That is the issue now.


21 Dec 2017 17:55:01
He's a fantastic footballer. It's worrying that we lose all our truely world class players.
People seem to think these guys have to love the club to be here. Do you think Hazard loves Chelsea?
No, he only stays because they won't sell him and challenge on all fronts to keep him happy.


21 Dec 2017 06:27:30
First time poster.
Where can I find the sharkopods?
Ta in advance.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed025's Note - you can type it into google and it will take you there mate..

20 Dec 2017 21:01:19
Fun question for ED 01 and Reds who have spare time reply and wish too. Who in your opinion is Liverpool’s greatest Goalkeeper, Defender (any position), Midfielder ( any position) and forward and why? I’d persinally go with GK - Ray Clemence, DEF - Alan Hansen, Mid- Gerrard ans Forward King Kenny. YNWA.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - the only change I would make is Souness was better than Gerrard as he had much more defensive responsibility and he won games singlehandedly. He put the fear of Fowler into opponents when he walked out on to the pitch, especially Liam Brady when they were in Italy....}

21 Dec 2017 07:16:58
From 96 onwards and ignoring sentimentality, Reina-Hyypia-Gerrard-Suarez.


21 Dec 2017 07:36:32
Oh COMON ed. Where’s Stevie Nicol!? Actually never seen him play I just crack up seeing his input on espnfc. He reminds me of Charles Barkley. You can tell he really understands the game, he just has a hard time of showing it 😂 Can tell he’s liverpool through and through though.


{Ed001's Note - he was a fantastic player and could neck a pint down like no one's business but Hansen is the best centre back I have ever seen play the game, even better than Baresi. Hansen was genuinely world class at his peak. Like Mcgrath he had knee problems but still was outstanding.}

21 Dec 2017 08:05:14
In my lifetime as a fan GK: Reina DF: Carragher MF: Gerrard ST: Suarez. I’m sure there were better players before but I’ve never seen them play (only old videos)


21 Dec 2017 08:25:05
Ray Clemence
Alan Hansen
Ian Callaghan
The King.


21 Dec 2017 09:33:05
. and peoples worst gk, defender, midfielder and striker?


{Ed025's Note - migs, lovren, balotelli..

21 Dec 2017 09:39:21
Gk - david james
Df - henchoz
Mid - berger
Cf - owen.


21 Dec 2017 09:49:00
Surprized you missed hendo in midfield there ed025 haha.


{Ed025's Note - yeah i even left him out of my worst players sandon...ill put him on the bench mate.. :)

21 Dec 2017 10:30:33
Clemence
Hansen
Souness
Dalglish

It could be those 4 because I grew up watching them, or it could be those 4 due to us being left behind since.


21 Dec 2017 11:15:21
Have to agree with AggerDo there, what a spine of a team to build around. Grew up with King Kenny as my idol.


21 Dec 2017 12:44:57
Aye same 4 for me as AggerDo. Although I only really remember Clemence in his last season. The next best would be Grobs Nicol Alonso and Rush. These wee favourite player posts are tough some times when you can't fit in Barnes Fowler and Gerrard.


21 Dec 2017 13:34:29
Worst in each category :

GK Charles Itandje
Def Paul Konchesky
Mid Oyvind Leonhardsen
Fwd Mario Balotelli.


21 Dec 2017 17:56:49
Brucey, Hansen, Gerrard, kenny.


21 Dec 2017 20:08:21
I've only been watching Liverpool since 2005.

So I'll go with Reina, Agger, Alonso, Torres.

Reina picks himself in the last 12 years. Dudek was quality to be fair, but Mignolet, Jones, Cavalieri, Itandje, Doni, Bogdan? I'll leave it at that.

Agger I've picked because i think when fit he was the best defender in Europe. Quick, Strong, good on the ball, free kick specialist, good in air, leader etc. Carra was great but lacked composure at times. Hyypia was excellent but lacked pace. Agger had everything and for 25 games a season, he was the best defender we've had in my lifetime. Which is impressive because i think Carra and Hyypia were world class in their prime. Plus Agger turned down Barcelona at their peak and got YNWA tattooed on his knuckles to rub it in their face 😂

Alonso is the greatest midfielder of the last 20 years in my opinion. I know people will scream about Zidane, Gerrard and Iniesta. But Alonso was the best for me. He transformed the deep midfield role. Before Alonso you were either a destroyer or a playmaker. He was the best in the world at both. Lynchpin of he best Liverpool team in recent years, the best Madrid team in recent years, the best Bayern team in recent years, and the Spain team which swept all comers aside.

Lastly I've gone for Torres because i would argue that in his prime at Liverpool he was the best striker in world football. Suarez wasn't quite for me. Maybe there was less competition in Torres' era, but my opinion remains that he would've walked into any team in the world at his peak. Torres scored goals to win major international tournaments. Suarez probably wouldn't have taken the place of Ibrahimović (PSG) or Lewandowski (Bayern), and though he did take his game to the next level after he left us, Torres leaked with us.

Plus Suarez marred everything good about his time at Liverpool with controversy. People will point to Suarez scoring more, but Torres was often rested against smaller clubs like Norwich so he was at 100% to stuff Barcelona, Real Madrid or Chelsea in the Champions League semi finals! Additionally, Torres played in a team built to defend first, score second. Suarez played in a team built to outscore the opposition. If Torres in his prime had played in that 13/ 14 season team, he'd have scored 40.


21 Dec 2017 20:18:01
Clemence
Hansen
Souness
Dalglish.


21 Dec 2017 22:26:07
Reina
Hansen
Souness
Rush.


 
Change Consent